Comey And Beyond, Costs Of TikTok Deal, Dreamers Amid Deportations

0:03Oh, Ayesha, it's you. Yes, yes. Oh, my goodness. The question, who's next on the president's retribution list? It's not a list, but I think there'll be others. Others who could find themselves in the same situation as James Comey. I'm Scott Simon. And I'm Ayesha Roscoe with Up First from NPR News.

0:28The Justice Department indicted the former FBI director days after President Trump called on Attorney General Pam Bondi to do so. We'll talk to our justice correspondent. American investors are taking over TikTok and paying the government to do it. Our tech correspondent asks experts when a fee is just a fee. And then NPR's immigration policy reporter on DACA in the era of mass deportations. So please stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your weekend.

1:07This message comes from BetterHelp. President Fernando Madeira describes how BetterHelp online therapy has helped him. For me, sometimes I just need to go and talk to somebody that is not going to judge me, right? It's going to be there and they're going to listen to me. And I can start just saying, look, I'm not feeling right today. And it feels natural. I love it. To get matched with a therapist, visit BetterHelp.com slash NPR for 10 % off your first month. This message comes from AT &T. Whether you're calling your parents to say happy anniversary or checking in with your kids before bedtime, staying connected matters.

1:48That's why AT &T has connectivity you can depend on, or they'll proactively make it right. That's the AT &T guarantee. Terms and conditions apply. Visit AT &T.com slash guarantee to learn more. AT &T. Connecting changes everything. A week ago today, President Trump began a post online by directly addressing Pam. Trump claimed that, quote, nothing is being done, and later in all caps, justice must be served now. On Thursday, prosecutors and Attorney General Pam Bondi's Justice Department followed through and secured criminal indictments against one of the president's perceived political enemies, former FBI Director James Comey for false statements and obstruction.

2:33NPR Justice Correspondent Ryan Lucas joins us. Ryan, thanks for being with us. Thank you. What is the indictment allege? Well, look, it's very much a bare-bones indictment. It's just a page and a half long, but it contains the two counts you mentioned, one for false statements, the other for obstruction of a congressional proceeding. Now, these charges stem from testimony that Comey gave to the Senate Judiciary Committee in September of 2020, so about five years ago. that hearing revolved around the FBI's investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 election. The indictment says that Comey lied by denying that he had authorized someone at the FBI to leak information.

3:07That appears to be a reference to an exchange at that hearing between Comey and Texas Republican Ted Cruz. Cruz asked Comey whether he had authorized someone at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports. Comey gave only a brief reply. He told Cruz that he stood by the answer that he had given back in 2017, which was that he had not authorized any such leak. And what do you think we should make of the timing of this indictment, given what the president had said just a week ago? Yeah, I think timing is an important aspect here. We heard Aisha mention the demand the president made a week ago today, in essence, instructing Attorney General Pam Bondi by name to investigate specific people Trump doesn't like.

3:47Trump named three people in that post to be prosecuted. New York Attorney General Letitia James, California Democratic Senator Adam Schiff, and James Comey. Now, the case against Comey was being handled by the U.S. Attorney's Office in the Eastern District of Virginia. Last week, Trump pushed out the top federal prosecutor there, in part because that prosecutor had expressed doubts about the strength of the case against Comey. Trump then installed Lindsey Halligan to replace him. Halligan has no prosecutorial experience, but she did once serve as a personal attorney for Trump, and she had been working in the White House.

4:19Halligan then pushed through the indictment against Comey, and she did so over the objections of career prosecutors in the U.S. attorney's office there, who also had concerns about the strength of the evidence in this case. Now that James Comey's been indicted, what did the president have to say? Well, Trump was asked about it yesterday when he was leaving the White House. He was asked who would be next on his list of retribution. You can hear the helicopter in the background here, but here's a bit of what he said. It's not a list, but I think there'll be others. I mean, they're corrupt. These were corrupt, radical-left Democrats.

4:49Because Comey essentially was worse than a Democrat. Now, Trump has insulted Comey for years. He did it again yesterday. He called him a dirty cop. Now, after the indictment was made public, Comey also put out a video on Instagram. Here's a bit of what he said. My family and I have known for years that there are costs to standing up to Donald Trump. But we couldn't imagine ourselves living any other way. we will not live on our knees and you shouldn't either. Comey also declared his innocence, said he has confidence in the federal judicial system and he said, let's have a trial. Finally, does this signal anything for the second Trump term?

5:27Well, look, traditionally the Justice Department has enjoyed independence from the White House, particularly in investigations and prosecutions. The reason being to make sure that prosecutions and investigations aren't driven by and don't even appear to be driven by politics. Now here in just the past week, we have the president openly calling on the attorney general to get after people Trump doesn't like. That includes James Comey. Now Comey has been indicted. So for legal observers and Justice Department veterans, this sure looks like Trump using the Justice Department to enact in technicolor the campaign of retribution that he promised against his political foes when he was running for president again.

6:03And President Ryan Lucas, thanks so much. Thank you.

6:13The deal to take over TikTok's U.S. operations comes with a price tag. And not just to its Beijing-based owner, ByteDance. The Coalition of American Investors will also make a payment to the U.S. government. It's the latest example of something that's becoming increasingly common in this White House, extracting cash from private businesses for President Trump's deal-making. And here's Bobby Allen. He's been looking into it and joins us now. Bobby, thanks for being with us. Hey, Scott. First, who's buying what I'll call U.S. TikTok? Yeah, there's a number of mostly U.S. investors, including Michael Dell, the Murdoch family, and Oracle, which is run by Trump ally Larry Ellison.

6:56And like you said, they're buying the U.S. side, so the U.S. version of TikTok, to comply with a federal law that says China cannot have control over the app. The White House is valuing the deal at around$14 billion. But, of course, that's not with the additional fee. How much is that fee going to be? I have a source with direct knowledge of the talks who was not authorized to speak, but they said the investors have agreed to a fee in the low billions, and that would be devoted to the U.S. Treasury. Why would the investors pay that? My source told me that it's just seen as the price of doing business right now.

7:32But to say this kind of fee to the federal government is unusual is quite the understatement. I talked to historians, economists, and industry insider, Scott, who all told me that squeezing businesses like this has very few parallels in modern history. And this is not the first time the administration's gotten involved in a deal like this, right? Yeah, there's a number of other examples, including chip makers NVIDIA and AMD. They're going to be giving the federal government 15 percent of its sales to China. The White House secured a so-called golden share in U.S. steel. And my colleague David Folkenflik has reported that when CBS settled a Trump lawsuit for$16 million, it cleared the way for parent company Paramount to merge with Skydance Media.

8:14Some experts say these arrangements look like shakedown schemes. I talked to Luigi Zingales. He's a finance professor at the University of Chicago, and he calls these arrangements rent-seeking. Common language is less sophisticated. It's called sucking up, but it's actually quite expensive. Zagalas says it's expensive because these payments end up essentially being a tax on business transactions that involve the federal government, and they actually can change how businesses operate day to day. Instead of innovating, people will spend time trying to ingratiate Trump. Instead of going and find a new discovery, they will spend time in Washington in the corridors of power trying to figure out what pleases Trump.

8:57Bobby, how does the Trump administration respond to this criticism? The White House didn't return my request for comment, but in the Oval Office on Thursday, Trump was asked about the multibillion dollar fee and he dodged the question. Instead, he said, quote, the U.S. comes out great in the TikTok deal. Now, after Trump got Intel to agree to a 10 percent stake of the company to the U.S. following Trump's calls for the CEO of Intel to resign, Trump did make a post on Social Social, and it said, quote, the United States paid nothing for these shares and the shares are now valued at approximately$11 billion.

9:34This is a great deal for America and also a great deal for Intel. So the president does seem to view these unusual interventions in private business as something of a win for the country. And Pierre's Bobby Allen. Thanks so much. Thanks, Scott.

9:55President Trump has vowed mass deportations of everyone who is in this country without legal status. For a few groups of people, such as DACA recipients, their status is not cut and dry. The Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program is supposed to protect DREAMers from immigration enforcement, but several DACA recipients have been arrested and detained. NPR's immigration policy reporter Jimena Bustillo has been following this and joins us now. Hi, Jimena. Hi. So the DACA program was created in 2012. Where does it stand today? The program was created to protect children who arrived in the country illegally prior to 2007 from deportation, But DACA is not an immediate path to citizenship or even a green card.

10:45Participants instead have to renew their protection every two years. They can also be removed from the program and lose protections if they commit crimes. Currently, about half a million people are on DACA, and now many of them are in their 30s and 40s. It provides a work permit and can be adjusted if a person leaves the U.S. and comes back with a visa or marries a U.S. citizen, among other options to adjust status. And since it was created, there has been no successful effort to provide a pathway to legal status for those who are on the program. Plus, the president had already tried to repeal DACA in his first term, and he failed to do so.

11:22Since President Trump couldn't get DACA repealed then, how is he approaching the program in his second term? So far, no regulatory changes have been made to formally end the program. But parts of Trump's administration have made moves to strip benefits. For example, the Health and Human Services Department said in June, DACA recipients would no longer be eligible to buy insurance through the federal health care marketplace. Then in July, the Education Department launched an investigation into five universities that offer financial help directly to DACA recipients. And as the Homeland Security Department has increased the rates of arrests, there have been reports of DACA recipients being caught up in worksite raids and even deportations.

12:03deportations. At one point, I asked DHS about this and they told me that DACA did not confer legal status and that those without legal status are encouraged to self-deport. Now, that's a very strong message that deviates from the first public statement Trump made after he won the election last year. So what did he say then? At the time, Trump said on NBC's Meet the Press that he would be open to negotiating a deal for DACA with Democrats. Now, both Republicans and Democrats have hung on to that statement made in December as a sign that someday Trump may say he's ready to come to that negotiating table, though there has since been nearly no discussion on the issue.

12:41And instead, the focus is still on deportations. DACA could be addressed not just by the president, but particularly by Congress. What can Congress do? Right. Ultimately, any permanent solution has to come from Congress. But the coalition that cares about this issue is a little bit fractured right now. I spoke with several GOP senators and representatives that have all previously supported finding a pathway for DACA recipients. And Senate Democrats have been increasingly vocal about the urgency to find a solution because arrests are happening. Still, Republicans control both chambers of Congress.

13:15And there was the consensus that nothing would happen this year. There are simply other concerns at the top of lawmakers' minds, like keeping the government from shutting down, for example. And they also said that they were waiting for the president himself to say that it's time to broker a deal. There are a few efforts in the House and Senate, individual bills that would provide a pathway to legal status for DACA recipients. But there isn't a sense that they will move anytime soon, even as Trump's deportation efforts only grow. That's NPR's immigration policy reporter Jimena Bustillo. Thank you so much for joining us.

13:48Thanks, Aisha.

13:53And that's it first for Saturday, September 27th, 2025. I'm Scott Simon. And I'm Aisha Roscoe. Michael Radcliffe produced today's podcast with help from Elena Twork and Dave Mistich, our editor. That's been Ed McNulty, along with Gabriel Donatoff, Melissa Gray, Krishna Dev Kalamur, Jeff Brumfield, and Megan Pratz. Fernando Naro directed. Our technical director was David Greenberg, with engineering support from Nisha Hines, Zoe Van Genhoven, and Ted Meebane. Our senior supervising editor is Shannon Rhodes. E.B. Stone is our executive producer, and Jim Cain is our deputy managing editor. Tomorrow on the Sunday Story, feelings about the course of the country from around the country, from wheat farmers in Washington State to merchants in Mississippi.

14:41That's here on the podcast, and there is a ton more on the radio, so please find your local NPR station at stations.npr.org. There's nothing more important you can do for yourself. Well, nothing. I mean, it's like doctor recommended and everything.

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