Emotional Abuse in College Sports

13:40Elizabeth Santos:OK, so, you know, tell me a little bit more about Coach Goodenbauer.

13:45Julia Haney:Well, Goodenbauer is from Iowa. She played basketball at Stanford for the legendary coach Tara Vanderveer. She won two national championships. Stanford's got four three-pointers today. And Molly Gutenbauer's got them all. And when she was a player, Gutenbauer was a guard just like Marta. And in 2016, she took over the USF head coach job from a former Stanford teammate. During the recruitment process, Maria and Marta recall Gutenbauer flying to Croatia multiple times to visit them.

14:17Elizabeth Santos:So it sounds like Gutenbauer was really making a big effort to recruit the twins.

14:22Julia Haney:She definitely was.

14:24Elizabeth Santos:Here's Marta again. We took her around Croatia, around town. We showed her everything, obviously, like, shared meals together. Really made this connection.

14:34Julia Haney:Between visits, the twins say that they were in regular touch. They both remember one moment in particular from one of Goodenbauer's visits.

14:43Elizabeth Santos:What stayed with me is really kind of the sentence she shared at the end of one of her trips. And I remember my mom was there and my parents were there. And she, you know, promised my mom and she told us like she would take care of us. And, you know, your kids are in good hands. I know, like as a parent myself, that's what you want to hear a coach say, right? Tell me more about the University of San Francisco.

15:11Julia Haney:USF is a Catholic school. It's small, progressive and right in the center of the city. Its motto is change the world from here. and you can see that printed on banners all over the hillside campus. It's a D1 school, so its teams play at the highest level of college sports. Mari and Marta arrived in September 2018. It was Goodenbauer's third year as head coach. It seemed great and there were just no signs that things were going to go

15:40Elizabeth Santos:a completely different way than they did.

15:45Julia Haney:The team was young, lots of freshmen, and most of them were international students. But the twins said Coach Goodenbauer seemed different almost immediately.

15:55Elizabeth Santos:On the court and after our arrival, she became this totally different person that I knew so far. What did they say was different about Coach Goodenbauer?

16:07Julia Haney:Well, they were used to strict coaches, ones with high expectations, ones who would yell at them, and they knew how to work hard. But when we spoke with Maria, she said Goodenbauer's tone was off. I've never really had anyone that, like, mean and, like, personal. And when we spoke with Marta, she agreed.

16:31Elizabeth Santos:Yeah, the way she started treating players, the way she started treating us, the way she started talking to us, the language she started using, the tone. What kinds of things would she say to you?

16:44Julia Haney:Here, Marta paused for a minute, and when she opened her mouth to speak again, the words she says her coach used all came pouring out.

16:52Elizabeth Santos:She would call us idiots, stupid, worthless, low of the low. She would say, you look like a fucking toothpick. She called us pieces of shit, you're a fucking idiot, you're stupid, lazy, worthless.

17:07Julia Haney:Had you ever had coaches who used that kind of language before?

17:12Elizabeth Santos:No, never. Never. And I've played basketball for years before I came to USF and never had really anything like it. So here you have Maria and Marta in a new country, at a new school, on a new team, with a coach that they say they don't know anymore.

17:35Julia Haney:Yeah, it was definitely overwhelming for them. And in our reporting, we've noticed a pattern in the stories we've heard. Often, athletes have said it took time to recognize issues with their coach's behavior. Many say that the turning point was watching a teammate face the same treatment that they had. And for Marta and Maria, it was like each was holding up a mirror to the other.

17:59Elizabeth Santos:Like it was, you know, double the effect because, you know, just to me at some points, It's like even seeing her go through some of these things felt a little bit, it almost felt worse than me going through it. Well, what about their teammates?

18:19Julia Haney:Yeah, later on, during the Twins litigation against USF and Goodenbauer, their teammates were asked how the coaches spoke to them on the court. Here's one of those players, Leila Herrera, speaking in a deposition video.

18:33Elizabeth Santos:I've seen her call us useless, stupid, incompetent, when we couldn't complete a drill at her level. I've seen my teammates crying, so just to name a few. How frequently would she say those types of things to your teammates? Every practice. How many times per practice? Three or four.

18:57Julia Haney:The man asking the questions here is the Twins lawyer, Randy Gaw. Herrera, who is African-American and Puerto Rican, also said that the assistant coach, Janelle Jones, made racially insensitive comments towards her.

19:11Elizabeth Santos:And so what does Gutenbauer say about all this?

19:15Julia Haney:Well, Gutenbauer argued in legal filings that her comments to the Twins were, quote, solely about their basketball performance and not personal. She said in her trial testimony that she told players they were lazy and that she called them out when they quit in drills, but that she never called them names. And she said that she gave them positive feedback. For example, she sent Marta texts encouraging her and reminding her of her potential early in her freshman year. Coach Goodenbauer has declined our repeated requests for an interview, and assistant coach Jones has not responded.

19:50Elizabeth Santos:D1 sports can be intense and really high pressure. Do you think that contributed to the environment that the twins allege existed.

20:01Julia Haney:I mean, we don't really know what Goodenbauer's motivation was, but yes, it's true that this was a high-pressure environment, and she might have been under specific pressures. NCAA coaches face extreme pressure to win, and like anybody else, their jobs are tied to their performance. Goodenbauer's lawyer referred to Maria and Marta's freshman year as being, quote, very difficult and stressful for their coach. And just before Goodenbauer took over, USF was doing great. The team had made it to the first round in March Madness. But after becoming head coach, Goodenbauer's team struggled. In the first two seasons, they had only slightly more wins than losses.

20:44Julia Haney:In the third season, which was Marta's and Maria's freshman year, the team's record was seven wins and 24 losses. Marta says it was really tough.

20:53Elizabeth Santos:You're fighting, you're giving your best, you're literally collapsing on the ground, you're trying to stand up, you're trying to go through the drill, and at the same time you have someone hovering over your head saying you're a fucking idiot. It was miserable.

21:11Julia Haney:The twins' lawsuit cites a specific incident that they say crossed a line. During a practice in their freshman year, Marta says that she asked to use the restroom three times with increasing urgency during a drill. She said Coach Goodenbauer told her no, and that an assistant coach also said, quote, not if Coach Goodenbauer said no. Marta told us the same story in an interview.

21:36Elizabeth Santos:Running to the point where not only I could not like seriously control my legs anymore, like as I really needed to go use the restroom, I could not control my bladder anymore. And I just urinated on myself and my whole, my jersey, my pants, everything was, everything was visibly wet. And I remember like in that state, I was so, I don't even have the words to describe, like I felt so embarrassed, so ashamed, low. And she says she went back to Gunnenbauer a fourth time. I approached her at that half court. She was standing on the left side. I so vividly remember. And I'm like, coach, I literally urinated on myself.

22:17Elizabeth Santos:I have to go to the bathroom. Her response? No, you can go whenever you finish the drill.

22:24Julia Haney:Marta says she completed the drill before going to the restroom and cleaning herself up.

22:30Elizabeth Santos:Okay. How did Gunnenbauer respond to that allegation?

22:36Julia Haney:In her testimony, Gutenbauer said that she wasn't aware of this incident when it happened. She stated that players are free to leave the court whenever they need to use the restroom. And she said she felt really badly that this would happen to one of her players. But after this incident, Marta says she would use the bathroom multiple times before practice, worried about being humiliated again. She used this time to prepare herself.

23:03Elizabeth Santos:Splashing cold water, doing the Superman pose, like anything you can to kind of prepare myself to face those next couple of hours.

23:14Julia Haney:She says practices felt like entering a war zone. And then it was time for the players' performance reviews in March of their freshman year. The twins decided to secretly record their meetings with Coach Goodenbauer and assistant coach Janelle Jones using their cell phones. In these recordings, you can hear Gutenbauer threatening to take away their scholarships. In Maria's recording, Gutenbauer can be heard telling her repeatedly that she does not want to coach her, that Maria is going to be miserable, and that she will lose her scholarship if she messes up. Because it was secretly recorded, the tape quality here is poor.

23:54Elizabeth Santos:The next time you put on a drill, you're not going to have a scholarship anymore.

23:59Julia Haney:Okay, I understand. And later on in that meeting...

24:20Julia Haney:Goodenbauer continues...

24:30Elizabeth Santos:now that it's going to be really difficult for you to overcome. I can honestly say I don't want to coach you. I don't. I'm sure that was very hard to hear from Maria. What about Marta's meeting?

24:48Julia Haney:Was it similar? Yeah, Gutenbauer made similar statements to Marta. Marta says that she was really nervous going in. She remembers her palms sweating.

25:00Elizabeth Santos:I felt like confined in that room and, you know, them kind of attacking me. It was me kind of alone versus them. And at that time, I'm this, you know, foreigner freshman at the end of my year. I have no idea what's happening, what they can or cannot do. And suddenly they're, you know, threatening to take away my scholarship.

25:23Julia Haney:Here's Goodenbauer in this meeting.

25:25Elizabeth Santos:The next time you quit on something, I take your scholarship from you.

25:30Julia Haney:And assistant coach Jones jumps into...

25:33Elizabeth Santos:You're going to lose your scholarship, and then you will be back in Croatia because you're not going to do it. No one else, there's none of that school that's going to pick you up here in the United States because they're going to call us and they're going to say, why did you guys kick Marta off the team? Because you don't have any stats. And we're going to say, because she quits. I believe them. I mean, I thought it was all true. I thought that's what she was able to do. And, you know, she was kind of the person in control of my future. Well, I mean, I don't know much about sports, so I would think that too.

26:09Elizabeth Santos:Like, it seems like coaches do have a lot of power.

26:13Julia Haney:Sure, they do. But here's the thing. The NCAA does not allow a coach to take away a scholarship for poor performance or injury. Marta says she didn't know that. By the end of her freshman year, Marta says that she wanted to graduate as soon as possible. She wanted to get out of this environment. And meanwhile, Maria told us that starting her freshman year, she was experiencing feelings she had never known before USF. She says she began to have racing anxious thoughts that got worse when she was around Goodenbauer.

26:44Elizabeth Santos:Suddenly I started getting these panic attacks. I'm having violent nightmares. I'm like, I'm so depressed.

26:51Julia Haney:I've never thought I was that kind of person and nobody really prepares you for that. She said she started to wish that she would not wake up. I was like literally on the edge.

27:06Elizabeth Santos:I felt like there was like no point in continuing like with life.

27:13Julia Haney:Maria suffered two mental health crises, according to the legal complaint. The first in the fall of her sophomore year, when she reported Goodenbauer's treatment of her to a USF trainer, who walked her over to the school's counseling and psychological services for an evaluation. Maria received therapy there after that.

27:32Elizabeth Santos:Did getting therapy help her? Was she able to cope with the stress, you know, after she got the therapy?

27:41Julia Haney:Maria says there was a brief period where it felt like she was gaining Goodenbauer's approval, but that didn't last long. And she had a second crisis in January of her junior year. At this point, she says she had begun to feel numb. Her father sent an email to an athletic trainer stating that Maria had told him she did not want to live anymore. The trainer immediately got in touch with Maria and helped her call the counseling center again.

28:08Elizabeth Santos:And Maria is saying that the reason for these crises was the way Goodenbauer was coaching her?

28:16Julia Haney:It's never any one thing. But there was a psychiatrist who served as an expert witness for the twins in the trial. She examined them and determined that they both suffered a, quote, psychiatric illness. And this psychiatrist wrote in her report for the trial, quote,

28:42Elizabeth Santos:Okay, so let's zoom out for a minute. You've said emotional abuse in college sports is common. So are there procedures in place to protect students? Like, where do they turn to for help?

28:56Julia Haney:Well, when a student athlete experiences emotional abuse, they might report to any number of institutions. Yeah, Aisha, think of these places that a student might report to as concentric circles. At the center, you have the team's coaching staff and other support staff, then the athletic department, then the university. Outside of all of that, you have a sports national governing body. This is something like USA Basketball. Then you have the NCAA and Safe Sport, which is an organization that investigates allegations of abuse in sports. And finally, you have the legal system. We've also seen students report through channels designed for victims of sexual abuse and gender discrimination.

29:40Julia Haney:For example, a campus Title IX office. And during their time at USF, Mari and Marta knocked on many doors. Yeah, they reported to university staff, an assistant coach, athletic trainers, a school psychologist, and athletic department leadership. So did their father.

29:57Elizabeth Santos:So how did the school respond?

29:59Julia Haney:USF's head of NCAA compliance reached out to the twins to speak about their experiences on the team. Maria met with him and HR leader Diane Nelson. Maria told them that she was being bullied and that Goodenbauer and Jones had said that they would make her life miserable if she returned the following year. And here we want to add that the NCAA does not have an emotional abuse policy to cover the over 500 ,000 student athletes who compete each year. A representative there said that schools are the ones primarily responsible for student-athletes' safety. The NCAA declined our multiple requests for an interview and referred us to their Mental Health Best Practices webpage.

30:42Julia Haney:USF investigated Maria's claims. Nelson from HR led that investigation. But she didn't interview any student-athletes on the team other than Maria. The only other two people she spoke with were Goodenbauer and Jones. Goodenbauer said in a deposition that in her meeting with Nelson, she was not made aware of any bullying allegations. Here's the Twins attorney, Randy Gaw. Did Ms.

31:07Elizabeth Santos:Nelson ask you any questions about whether you had made any inappropriate comments to any of your players? No. She simply had me describe my practices.

31:18Julia Haney:It's not clear whether Nelson asked Goodenbauer about the threats to take the Twins' scholarships. Gutenbauer testified that she was never asked about this. At the end of her investigation, Nelson concluded that Gutenbauer had not broken any USF policies. Nelson has not responded to our request for comment. USF wrote in a statement that the university acknowledges the, quote, seriousness of the issue, but, quote, disputes the allegations. Here's the twins' lawyer again, Randy Gaw, speaking in an oral argument from last August. Coach Jones admitted that the scholarship threat was made. And Ms. Nelson admitted under testimony that a threat to take away a scholarship would be improper.

32:03Julia Haney:And yet she exonerates them and writes the false statement that there was no evidence of the scholarship threat whatsoever.

32:11Elizabeth Santos:The investigation was so perfunctory, nothing happened. Okay, so the twins lawyer is saying the investigation was not very thorough. But again, the university is kind of policing itself, right? Like, instead of bringing in someone independent to review the twins' allegations.

32:32Julia Haney:Well, yes, but it's complicated. We spoke with a lawyer who's represented student-athletes in two dozen similar cases. And he says because of the inherent conflict of interest, the right way to do it is to hire someone outside of the university, an external, independent investigator. But even in transparent, independent investigations, the university still sets the rules for what is within and outside the scope of an investigation. And universities want to avoid liability exposure.

33:03Elizabeth Santos:But what about that independent nonprofit SafeSport, the organization specifically tasked with looking into abusive coaching?

33:13Julia Haney:Yeah, so SafeSport was created by Congress in 2017 after Larry Nassar's abuse of athletes was exposed. But SafeSport was primarily founded to prevent sexual abuse. There are some exceptions, but for the most part, it doesn't investigate emotional and physical misconduct allegations. Marta says she'd never even heard of SafeSport. So basically, there are many organizations who might investigate. But it's a patchwork system with many holes. Often, even coaches who are pushed out of their programs just end up popping up somewhere else.

33:51Elizabeth Santos:That must be pretty frustrating or even painful to students who allege abuse. Yeah.

33:59Julia Haney:And to that point, let's go back to Coach Goodenbauer. She had been accused of similar abusive behavior at previous programs, including at Chico State and UC Irvine. At Irvine, Gutenbauer received a suspension and an email from the athletic department noting that her, quote,

34:20Elizabeth Santos:So with all of that on her record, how did she end up getting the head coach job at USF?

34:27Julia Haney:That's a great question, Aisha. We know the hiring process was pretty expedited, just 11 days. And we know from a deposition of the school's athletic director that Goodenbauer was not asked about those accusations of verbal abuse because those questions had not been asked of other candidates. Chico State's athletic director did tell USF's athletic director that Goodenbauer was a good and stern coach.

34:54Elizabeth Santos:So despite some controversy, Goodenbauer is head coach at USF and it seems like the school has her back. So where does that leave Marta and Maria?

35:07Julia Haney:Well, the last option is to file a lawsuit, and that's what the twins did. Maria Amarta's father is a lawyer in Croatia, and a mutual friend introduced him to another lawyer in San Francisco, Randy Gaw, who we heard from earlier. Gaw's firm does business litigation, but they take on some personal injury cases as well. He says he's been working on this one effectively pro bono for years.

35:32Elizabeth Santos:We do some, you know, kind of personal injury cases on the side. And, you know, this was one of them because we felt like we can make a difference. So you said that Maria and Marta filed their case in 2021. What did they allege?

35:47Julia Haney:They alleged that Gutenbauer was liable for intentional infliction of emotional distress, meaning that she had intended to hurt them or had acted with reckless disregard for their well-being. In short, that her actions had crossed a line. The lawsuit also alleged that Goodenbauer and USF were negligent, meaning the school and the coaching staff had a duty to care for them and failed to do so.

36:12Elizabeth Santos:The power dynamic is also a critical component of this contextual analysis. If a random person off the street said the things or did the things to Marta and Maria, there would be no case because that person has no relationship, no power over them, right? and we in society should have rules basically. You can't just sue for random conduct like that. It's not expected to have an impact on you. But Ms. Goodenbauer was a surrogate parent in many ways.

36:47Julia Haney:God told us that the legal system has some catching up to do when it comes to emotional abuse. He says there's resistance in the law to mental damages and that judges and jurors are skeptical of plaintiffs who claim they were emotionally damaged.

37:03Elizabeth Santos:So really, you're dealing with a resistance to that in a lot of jurors, or not a lot of jurors, but at least some jurors who just don't think that a purely mental injury is like a real thing, or at least it's a thing that's not as harmful as a physical injury. So in some ways, he's saying it was an uphill battle.

37:26Julia Haney:Exactly. Gaw never expected this case would go to trial. Typically, cases like this are settled out of court. For Marta and Maria, this was also about justice. They said they went through all of this so that other athletes wouldn't have to experience what they did. The trial went on for 10 days. And on the 11th day, in July of 2023, the jury reached a verdict.

37:51Elizabeth Santos:What did it find?

37:52Julia Haney:It found that Goodenbauer's behavior was outrageous towards Marta and that she had either intended to cause Marta harm or had acted with reckless disregard for March's well-being. But the jury found that these actions had failed to cause Marta severe emotional distress.

38:11Elizabeth Santos:OK, so they're saying that Goodenbauer crossed the line, but Marta ended up mostly OK. So what about Maria?

38:20Julia Haney:Well, the jury sided with Maria, finding that Gutenbauer was liable for intentional infliction of emotional distress and that Maria had suffered severe emotional distress. It also found that Gutenbauer and USF were grossly negligent. It awarded Maria$250 ,000 in compensatory damages and$500 ,000 in punitive damages.

38:44Elizabeth Santos:What I do remember is when the jury verdict was read afterwards, her sobbing with joy, you know, because she felt validated that she told her story and a group of impartial people decided that, yes, what happened to you was wrong. You were not overly sensitive. And did the university accept the ruling or did they appeal it?

39:17Julia Haney:So they filed a motion asking a judge to override the jury's decision. And the judge actually did take away Maria's punitive damages award. But Maria appealed. And late last summer, a panel of appellate judges restored her award, giving her the full amount. That same panel also granted a retrial for Marta's case. after Gaw argued that critical evidence was tossed out, which would have impacted the jury's decision. This included allegations that Gutenbauer was emotionally abusive in previous programs. Marta was granted a retrial for her negligence claim, but actually reached a settlement with USF late last month.

39:56Elizabeth Santos:And what about Gutenbauer? Like, where is she today?

39:59Julia Haney:Last year, USF renewed Gutenbauer's contract through the 2028 season. She's still coaching there today. Court shot brought to you by USF head coach Molly Goodenbauer. A university representative wrote to us in a statement that while the school respects the legal process, it does not agree with all of the outcomes. The representative wrote, quote, the university and our employees have acted in good faith and in accordance with their responsibilities. We continue to stand by the coaches and staff of the women's basketball program.

40:35Elizabeth Santos:Oh, okay. And what about Marta and Maria?

40:39Julia Haney:What happened to them? So even before they decided to sue, while they were still at USF, the twins' paths had already begun to diverge. Maria didn't play another game for USF after her second visit to the campus counseling center her junior year. Meanwhile, Marta was still playing, and she was playing well. Maria graduated the next year from USF in 2022 with a degree in architecture. Today, she lives in New York City, where she recently got her MFA in interior design. But the last time we talked to her, she still sounded very much in pain.

41:16Elizabeth Santos:It's definitely something that still impacts me to this day in ways that I couldn't imagine.

41:22Julia Haney:She was visibly shaking as she spoke to us on our video call, but said it was important for her to tell her story.

41:30Elizabeth Santos:I want people to know that it's not just the time you spend there with the coach. It's just so many more years after that, and your life changes completely.

41:41Julia Haney:Mariah says she can't pick up a basketball anymore. Marta stayed with the USF team, graduating in three years summa cum laude with a degree in finance. After that, she transferred her eligibility to Tulane in Louisiana. She said it was hard to leave her sister behind.

42:00Elizabeth Santos:Well, tell me about Marta's experience at Tulane.

42:03Julia Haney:At Tulane, Marta was elected captain of the basketball team, and she thrived under her new coach. Lisa Stockton had coached there for 30 years, and her teams appeared in postseason tournaments 21 times. Stockton was inducted into the Conference USA Hall of Fame in 2023. And here's what she told us about her coaching philosophy.

42:26Elizabeth Santos:There's a difference between challenging someone and pushing them to be successful and being hard on them and being unfair. And I think you've got to know the difference in that.

42:37Julia Haney:Stockton retired in 2024. She said that most coaches who are still working would likely be hesitant to speak with us.

42:44Elizabeth Santos:I've been a players coach, but I think right now it's a really tough time to be a coach. And I don't know if that matters in your story, but, you know, when you talk about our coaches worried about certain things. Yeah, I mean, it's really hard to do this job where you're pushing people beyond what they think, you know, their limits and you're trying to make them better. I get that. I mean, it does sound really hard.

43:10Julia Haney:And now we're in a world where college athletes can be compensated for their play, where some have large social media followings, and where they can transfer to a new school pretty easily. It's a power dynamic that's really changed that's difficult to function with the way it is now. Stockton says this can make it harder to build a positive team culture. But for Marta, Tulane was a great fit.

43:35Elizabeth Santos:It was night and day difference, really. Tulane really showed me what it means and what big of a difference it makes to have great people around you, to have great leadership, to have people who care about you, who push you at the same time to be better, to improve, to achieve your potential.

43:57Julia Haney:Marta told us that her sister watched all of her Tulane games and that for Maria, it was like seeing a version of herself out there on the court, still able to enjoy playing the game that had required so much personal sacrifice.

44:17Elizabeth Santos:Elizabeth and Julia, thank you so much for your reporting and shining a light on this subject that I didn't know much about. And I think that a lot of people probably haven't really thought about.

44:28Julia Haney:You're welcome, Aisha. Yeah, thanks for having us.

44:35Elizabeth Santos:That was reporters Julia Haney and Elizabeth Santos. This episode of The Sunday Story was produced by Andrew Mambo. Jenny Schmidt edited this episode. Fact-checking by Katie Doggart. The engineer was Jimmy Keely. The Sunday Story team includes Justine Yan and Liana Simstrom. Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. A special thanks to the audio program and investigative reporting program at the University of California, Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism, as well as Shireen Marisol-Miraji, who runs the audio program at the school and provided production help with this story. Funding for this story was also supported by the Carter Center's Mental Health Parity Collaborative and the Fund for Investigative Journalism.

45:24Elizabeth Santos:I'm Aisha Roscoe, and Up First is back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend.

45:35Elizabeth Santos:Support for this podcast and the following message come from Alexa Plus. Say hello to the all-new Alexa Plus. Need last-minute concert tickets? Craving your favorite restaurant? Just sit back, relax, and talk naturally. Alexa's on it. Alexa remembers what you love, anticipates what you need, and makes it all happen. Alexa Plus brings thousands of possibilities to life, ready whenever inspiration strikes. And now, Alexa Plus is free with Prime on your Amazon devices, like Echo and Fire TV. Amazon.com slash Alexa Plus. Support for NPR and the following message come from Washington Wise. Decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day.

46:19Elizabeth Santos:Washington Wise from Charles Schwab is an original podcast that unpacks the stories making news and how they may affect your finances and portfolio. Host Mike Townsend and his guests explore policy initiatives for retirement savings, taxes, trade, and more. Download the latest episode and follow at schwab.com slash Washington Wise or wherever you listen. This message comes from MidiHealth. CEO Joanna Strober shares the personal experience that led her to start a virtual care platform for women in paramenopause and menopause.

46:52Julia Haney:I was having anxiety. I had gained weight. I wasn't sleeping. and my primary care doctor never once said that perhaps I was in perimenopause and that all these things could be related to my hormones. So I had a really tough time for quite a while and a friend recommended that I try a concierge doctor. She prescribed hormones for me, a combination of estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone. And I felt very relieved that I had this care and I also had a lot of sadness that I had spent such a long period of time going through this and not getting the right care. And so essentially what we really want to do at MIDI is democratize access to this type of care.

47:30Elizabeth Santos:MIDI Health. Committed to helping women in midlife with paramenopause and menopause care. Accessible via telehealth visits. At joinmidi.com.