Scene From Vatican City, Life Of Pope Leo XIV, China Trade Talks

0:01What was it like to be at the Vatican when a cleric made this announcement?

0:09We have a pope, he said. American Robert Prevost is now Leo XIV, and we'll hear from Ruth Sherlock, who was there. I'm Leila Faudel, that's Steve Inskeep, and this is Up First from NPR News. How does the pope from Chicago look to American political partisans? We'll hear some of his stances so far. Also, negotiators from the U.S. and China will meet over the weekend. the U.S. hopes to ease the terms of its own trade war, while China wants fewer restrictions on American tech. Export controls on chips in particular, and in chip-making equipment. So things that would allow them to accelerate the domestic development of AI.

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2:26Visit schwab.com to learn more. The Catholic Church followed each step of a ritual that's centuries old. White smoke poured from a chimney yesterday, then a cleric appeared on a balcony to say these words in Latin.

2:44Avemus Papam. We have a pope, thanks to my high school Latin teacher. Moments later, as we heard live on NPR, the cleric gave the name Robert Francis Prevost, and it became apparent that it was a pope from Chicago. NPR's Rome correspondent Ruth Sherlock was there watching it all unfold in Vatican City. Hi, Ruth. Hi. So, Ruth, you got to watch this history being made. Tell us what it was like. Well, you know, in those moments leading up to the white smoke, there were just people in prayer. All over the square, in their own languages, I heard Italian, French, Bengali. Sister Mary Agnes Mruga, a nun from Poland, gave this great description of what it was like waiting outside the Sistine Chapel while the cardinals were inside.

3:30It's just exciting to be in the very place when they are, you know, behind the wall, they are electing, and we are on the other side praying for them. And then the white smoke just started billowing out of the chimney of the Sistine Chapel, meaning that new pope had been chosen. There were marching bands and chants of Viva il Papa, long live the pope. And then it was announced, Robert Prevost, an American cardinal's pope. You know, the reaction where I was was actually initially one of confusion. Lots of people hadn't heard through the tinny speakers. People were frantically trying to check their phones, but there was no phone data.

4:05But gradually the name, Prevost, kind of spread through the crowd. And then he appeared on the lodger of the basilica. His first public appearance as Pope Leo XIV, what was his message? His first words were, peace be with you all. And you know, Leila, his speech had echoes of the papacy of his predecessor, Francis, for its global message. He sent well wishes of peace to, quote, all of the people all over the earth. He gave a special greeting to the diocese of Chiclayo in Peru, where he lived for many years, where he was a bishop. And he recited the Hail Mary prayer with thousands of people joining him from the square.

4:44And what was the reaction? Once people finally got the news and saw the new pope and were starting to get a sense of who he is, how were they reacting to him? Well, the reaction was actually very mixed. where I was standing, there was some disappointment, particularly among Italians. You know, there have been many Italian popes before, and they were hoping that one of the Italian cardinals will be chosen. Among Americans, though, as you can imagine, there was shock. There absolutely isn't a precedent for previous popes. Leo XIV is the first pope from the United States, as we said, and there was jubilation.

5:22Here's Max Gleeson. He's a 21-year-old American college student studying in Rome. I can't say for sure, but just seeing this few minutes of him up there and the emotion that he brought, he just looks like someone who's going to crush it. So lots of optimism about what this Pope might be able to achieve. Lots of expectations. It's a very difficult time in the world. And Pope Francis spoke repeatedly about human suffering and conflict, about poverty, and many people hoping he'll continue that legacy. NPR's Ruth Sherlock. Thank you, Ruth. Thanks so much, Leila. NPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose, along with Ruth, was part of our live coverage yesterday as the name was revealed, and he's been looking into the life of the Pope from Chicago.

6:10Hi there, Jason. Hello. What do you know about Leo? Well, Pope Leo is 69 years old, which makes him a bit on the younger side for Popes. He's got quite some time left in him. He was an undergraduate at Villanova University in Pennsylvania, where he majored in mathematics. Like Pope Francis, he's a member of a religious order, in Prevost's case, the Augustinians, who focus on missionary work and education. Prevost, now Pope Leo, went to seminary at the Catholic Theological Union in Chicago, and he did his doctorate here in Rome. He spent significant parts of his ministry in Peru. During his greeting from the balcony overlooking St.

6:45Peter's Square yesterday, though, he spoke in both Italian and Spanish, but did not significantly, I think, speak in English. and he's served on the Pontifical Commission on Latin America, a place he knows well given his time in Peru. What sense do you have at this early moment about what style of Pope he might be? Well, here's what Cardinal Prevost told the Vatican's official news agency prior to his election as Pope about what he thinks church leadership should be. The bishop is not supposed to be a little prince sitting in his kingdom, but rather called authentically to be humble, to be close to the people he serves, to walk with them, to suffer with them and to look for ways that he can better live the gospel message in the midst of his people.

7:28And Steve, that's very similar to what Pope Francis was fond of saying, that a pastor who's a shepherd should smell like his sheep. Hmm. I've noticed that already there are some criticisms of Pope Leo. That's right. Survivors of clergy sexual abuse say Cardinal Prevost did not do enough to address the issue as a bishop or archbishop or cardinal. But Steve, that's true of many in church leadership. Now the question is how he'll respond to victims going forward and how he handles abusive priests and those who covered up for them. He's also come under criticism for comments on LGBTQ people. Back in 2012, he lamented what he called the culture's sympathy with, quote, the homosexual lifestyle.

8:08And he spoke out against a government plan in Peru to teach about gender in public schools. He called promotion of, quote, gender ideology confusing and said such thinking creates genders that don't exist. I noticed that there are some hardcore supporters of President Trump who seem to assume that he is going to be opposed to President Trump. They're applying that blue-red filter of the United States onto the pontiff. What are his politics to the extent that they're known? Well, I think that he was a close ally with Pope Francis and as such will probably be willing to stand up to the Trump administration in the same way that the Vatican has for the last dozen years, talking out against the treatment of migrants, talking out against the treatment of people in Gaza and the way the war is being conducted there.

8:58So it could be somebody who's willing to go head-to-head and a very prominent American figure willing to go head-to-head with another prominent American figure, the American president. Absolutely. Isn't it surprising that it would be an American pope? Well, I think it's stunning. Prevost's name had come up, of course, because of his position there in the Vatican. He's considered well-qualified given his pastoral and administrative experience, but the U.S. is not the center of the Catholic world. And Vatican watchers said the U.S. has enough global power already. And the church, you know, Steve, is far more vibrant in other places, places where it's growing, like in Latin America and Africa and Asia.

9:35You know, Pope Francis, in fact, dramatically diversified the College of Cardinals during his papacy to reflect that. Many more cardinals from other parts of the world, but ones who chose an American. It is important to note that while Pope Leo is from the United States, he spent much of his life and ministry outside of the U.S., in Peru and at the Vatican. So he does bring a truly global perspective to the job. Jason, thanks for your perspective. You're welcome. That's NPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose.

10:09Trade negotiators from the U.S. and China talked this weekend in Switzerland. These are their first high-level face-to-face trade talk since President Trump returned to the White House. Goods from China now face attacks of up to 245 percent. The president's 145 is on top of some older tariffs. American goods going to China face taxes around 125 percent. NPR's Emily Fang has been covering this. Hi there, Emily. Good morning, Steve. How does the meeting in Switzerland compare with trade talks in Trump's first term? Right. I feel like we've been here before, but the stakes this time are much higher.

10:47The rates, as you just laid out, are much higher. And what's interesting is China has taken a much more defiant position this time around regarding trade. Neither country seemed willing to make the first move this time around. The levees in the last couple of weeks kept climbing. China reached a point where its foreign ministry said it would, quote, fight to the end. And going into the talks just now, its commerce ministry said it was not going to accept any, quote, coercion or blackmail. Wow, doesn't sound like this meeting is likely to produce much of an agreement. No. And Scott Besant, the U.S.

11:17Treasury Secretary, who is going to these talks, said as much this week. But it could be a chance for both countries to de-escalate and cool off. China, for example, says it wants to see, quote, sincerity as in having the U.S. drop its tariffs ahead of the meeting, which is something that the White House has outright said is not going to happen. Another big challenge is these two countries have very different negotiating styles. And it's not clear to the Chinese what the U.S. want, you know, what the end goals of these tariffs are. Trump has said they're to punish China for not doing enough to stop fentanyl trafficking.

11:50But he's also said he wants to use these tariffs to make China buy more from the U.S. As for what China might ask for this weekend, I asked Mary Lovely, who monitors trade policy at the nonpartisan economics think tank, the Peterson Institute in Washington. She told me their number one ask is rollback on U.S. export controls on semiconductor chips. Export controls on, yeah, on chips in particular and then chip making equipment. So things that would allow them to accelerate the domestic development of AI and artificial intelligence. But this is not something the U.S. is likely going to want to do.

12:27Emily, the Trump administration talks as if they've got the upper hand here, that they've got the cards. How strong does China think its position may be? They feel pretty confident, but tariffs are also hurting China. You know, it's been only a few weeks. At the same time, though, Beijing has been preparing for just such an economic standoff with the U.S. for years. They've been shoring up their supply chains. this week. They just announced monetary changes to cushion themselves economically a bit from, among other things, tariffs. Denny McMahon is head of research at Trivium, which is a group that advises businesses on China.

13:02He's been monitoring China's diplomacy, you know, their efforts to strike trade deals of their own, basically, without the U.S. by saying China is the stronger proponent of a global free trade regime. So it feels like it's on strong ground, kind of going out to the rest of the world and saying, hey, I'm all in favor of supporting and perpetuating the existing regime. Who else is with me? This used to be the U.S.'s calling card, but now China is using the same rhetoric. NPR's Emily Fang. Thanks so much. Thanks.

13:35And here's one more story, which we have for you this weekend, the backstory of Sean Combs, who was on trial accused of sex crimes. This weekend on the Sunday Story from Up First, why did it take so long for the allegations to catch up with a music star and record executive? There's a culture of fear and silence that really surrounded Combs for decades, and it's what allowed him to maintain control of his public image. That's on the next Sunday Story from Up First. And that's Up First for this Friday. It's Friday, May 9th. I'm Steve Inskeep. And I'm Leila Faudel. And just a reminder, Up First.

14:10Up First. Up First. It's a Scottish program. Go on. Just a reminder, Up First airs on Saturdays too, but Stephen and I will not be here. Ayesha Roscoe and Scott Simon will have the news. Look for it wherever you get your podcasts. Today's episode of Up First was edited by Daniel Burke, Ryland Barton, Pan Manandarama, Jenea Williams, and Alice Wolfley. It was produced by Katie Kline, Nia Dumas, and Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Nisha Hines, and our technical director is Carly Strange. Our executive producer is Jay Shaler. Have a great weekend.

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