Trump's Threats Investigation, Louisiana 10 Commandments, Russia's BRICS Summit

0:01Donald Trump has vowed to prosecute or jail his political rivals if he's elected. He will absolutely make sure his enemies pay for what he perceives to be their crimes. An NPR investigation takes a closer look at these threats. I'm me Martinez. That's Leila Faddle. And this is Up First from NPR News. Does a Louisiana law requiring public schools to display the Ten Commandments violate the First Amendment and Supreme Court precedent? Religion is something that is private and it succeeds best when the government just stays out of that conversation. It's a question before a federal court this week.

0:35And Russian President Vladimir Putin is hosting a summit of world leaders in the city of Kazan. That's despite the West trying to isolate him over the war in Ukraine. Stay with us. We'll give you the news you need to start your day.

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2:22That's L-E-E-S-A.com, promo code NPR. With just two weeks until Election Day, former President Donald Trump has been escalating his attacks on his political rivals and what he calls, quote, the enemy within, unquote. Now, an NPR investigation has found that Trump has made more than 100 threats to investigate, prosecute, jail, or otherwise punish his perceived opponents, including private citizens. NPR's investigative correspondent Tom Dreisbach has been looking into this. Good morning. Good morning. So we know former President Trump has talked about, quote, locking people up for a long time. What's new about what you found here?

2:59Right. And, you know, Trump's allies say, come on, this is just campaign rhetoric. The media is overhyping this. So we wanted to find out just how often does Trump do this? And we looked at rally speeches, interviews, social media posts just since 2022 when he was preparing for this campaign. And that's how we found more than 100 examples. More than 100 examples. Who exactly is he targeting? Well, at the top of the list are his political opponents. He says if he wins on day one, he will appoint a special prosecutor to investigate President Joe Biden and Biden's family. He says Vice President Kamala Harris should be prosecuted.

3:34He's reposted calls for former President Barack Obama, former Congresswoman Liz Cheney to face military tribunals. And then he's also pushed for prosecutions and arrests of people involved in the criminal and civil cases against them, prosecutors, judges, even a courthouse staffer. And in one case, he floated the idea of prosecuting a member of the Georgia grand jury that indicted him for election interference. OK, so this goes well beyond just politicians, including private citizens like this jury you just described, but also journalists. What has Trump said about them? Well, he said journalists who refuse to give up their sources should go to jail.

4:09He says CBS and NBC should be investigated and lose their broadcast licenses because he didn't like their news coverage. He's also attacked people who criticize or protest the Supreme Court. This is from a rally this September. These people should be put in jail the way they talk about our judges and our justices trying to get them to sway their vote. I mean, what you're describing, Tom, is pretty frightening. And all of this obviously raises the question, could former President Trump actually do this? Well, there's been a norm that's generally accepted for decades that the White House does not direct investigations by the Justice Department.

4:44But it is not the law. And at the end of the day, the president does control the Justice Department. Of course, there are guardrails. Judges can refuse to sign warrants. They can dismiss charges. But investigations alone, legal experts told me, can be terrifying, cost a ton of money in legal bills. And there's this concern that just the threat of a prosecution can make someone say, if opposing the president gets to be investigated, is it really worth the risk? So a chilling effect there. What does your reporting tell you about whether Trump would actually take action on these threats? Yeah, an analysis from an NYU law professor found a dozen cases from Trump's first term where he pressured the Justice Department to investigate and they did follow through.

5:22And I also talked to multiple people who said they're preparing for the worst case in case Trump wins. Stephanie Grisham was a press secretary in Trump's White House, but she now says he's unfit for office. I just know that once he's in office with no reason to worry about re-election and only the most fervent, loyal people surrounding him, that he will absolutely make sure his enemies pay for what he perceives to be their crimes. And Grisham told me she's already saving money getting ducks in a row in case he's subjected to, say, an investigation or IRS audit. Meanwhile, a spokesperson for the Republican Party responded to our reporting by saying that Harris is the threat to democracy.

6:02That's NPR's Tom Dreisbach. Thanks so much for your reporting, Tom. Thank you. You can hear a lot more on this story on today's episode of Consider This from NPR. Find it this afternoon on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

6:23Louisiana passed a law earlier this year that requires public schools to display the Ten Commandments in every classroom. The ACLU and several other groups have sued the state to stop the law from taking effect in January because they argue it violates a Supreme Court precedent and the First Amendment. Parties met for the first time yesterday in a federal court in Baton Rouge. Aubrey Juhasz with member station WWNO has been following this case and joins me now. Good morning. Good morning. So who are the plaintiffs in this case and what are their attorneys arguing? Yeah, the plaintiffs consist of nine Louisiana families.

6:59Some are religious, others aren't. And their lawyers argue that the children of these families and other children in the state will be harmed if the Ten Commandments are posted in classrooms. So the attorneys have asked that the law be blocked while the case makes its way through the courts. And the state, what do they say? Yeah, the state obviously has larger, larger constitutional arguments. But yesterday, the focus was on whether this case can even move forward. Attorneys for the state argue plaintiffs don't have a case until the posters go up in January. They say there's no grounds for allegations of harm until then.

7:28So they've asked the judge to throw out the suit for that reason. OK, so let's take a step back. Let's talk about what the state law that's being contested actually says. What does it say about the Ten Commandments and how they're meant to be displayed in public schools? It's pretty specific. It says the Ten Commandments need to be displayed in large, easily readable font. It requires a specific version of the commandments from the King James Bible version, which is a Protestant text. The law also says posters displaying the commandments have to be at least 11 by 14 inches, though they can be bigger.

7:56And they have to include a context statement, the exact wording of which was included in the law, passed by Louisiana's Republican-controlled legislature. It's several paragraphs, but in short says the Ten Commandments, quote, were a prominent part of American public education for almost three centuries. Though I should say some historians argue that isn't true. So very detailed law there. This is such a closely watched case. A lot of concern around whether it violates this notion of separation of church and state. Why has it captured the nation's attention in this way? It's because people are concerned that the Supreme Court could overturn that precedent if a case relating to this law makes its way to them, and that in overturning that precedent, they could take down the wall between church and state in part.

8:40Critics argue the law clearly violates the First Amendment, which protects freedom of religion. Here's Andrew Perry, an attorney for the plaintiffs with the ACLU of Louisiana. The premise of the Constitution is that religion is something that is private, and it succeeds best when the government just stays out of that conversation. The U.S. Supreme Court struck down a similar law to Louisiana's in 1980. In that ruling, the court said requiring schools in Kentucky to post the Ten Commandments, quote, had no secular legislative purpose, was plainly religious and therefore unconstitutional. Now, Louisiana's attorney general argues the state's law is different and constitutional.

9:16She says it passes a history and tradition test and that it's about teaching morals. Opponents aren't buying that, though. So when they say this case is about getting something that's already been decided back to the Supreme Court, which now has a conservative supermajority. When is the court, the federal court here, expected to make a decision? Yeah, the judge says he'll make a decision by November 15th, and that'll include, you know, whether he's going to stop the law from taking effect in January. If he throws out the suit, plaintiffs can try again once the posters are up. And attorneys say their case isn't the only legal challenge to this law.

9:47So even if this case doesn't move forward, it's possible another one will and could eventually make its way to the U.S. Supreme Court. Aubrey Juhasz is with member station WWNO in New Orleans. Thank you for your reporting, Aubrey. You're welcome.

10:07The U.S. and its allies often say Russia's unprovoked full-scale invasion of neighboring Ukraine in 2022 led to its international isolation. But Russia tells a different story, one that will be on display as President Vladimir Putin hosts leaders from many of the world's fastest developing economies in Russia this week. Joining us to talk about it is NPR's Charles Maines in Moscow. Welcome. Hi there. Hi, Charles. So what is this summit and who's on the guest list? Well, this is the latest incarnation of what was initially known as the BRICS Group of Developing Nations. That's an acronym for Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa.

10:47They've since added a plus to the list to show their growing roster, which includes new members such as Iran, Egypt, United Arab Emirates, as of this year. And the group looks to grow even further, with Turkey, Azerbaijan, Malaysia waiting for admission. All told, the Kremlin says 22 world leaders will be attending, including China's Xi Jinping and India's men of Rendra Modi. The Kremlin is billing this as the biggest foreign policy summit in Russian history, and they're all coming to Kazan. That's the capital of Russia's Republic of Tatarstan, where I should add locals have been told basically to stay home, both out of concerns for security and to control the optics of the event.

11:24I mean, 22 world leaders doesn't sound like isolation. So Russian President Vladimir Putin must be feeling pretty good about that. You know, that's a safe bet. The fact that these world leaders are all coming at this moment is a PR coup for Russia. The Kremlin would argue it's the latest proof, if it needed any more, that Russia is not at all isolated over its invasion of Ukraine, as the West would claim. Even the Secretary General of the United Nations, Antonio Guterres, is in town for this event over the objections of Kiev, I might add. Meanwhile, BRICS nations represent nearly half the world's population and increasingly a new world order, as Vladimir Putin argued during a speech at a related event last week in Moscow.

12:02Let's listen.

12:06So here Putin says companies from BRICS countries already dominate key economic industries like energy and agriculture. And in the not-too-distant future, BRICS nations, he says, will be the drivers of the global economy. Okay, so aside from growing economic might, what else unites these countries? Well, you know, in the lead-up to the summit, Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, was asked something similar. He contrasted BRICS to the G7, the West Group of Seven Leading Industrialized Economies. But saying that the G7 was a club no one else could ever get an invitation to, whereas BRICS, in Pesco's telling, was a far more democratic institution.

12:42But you're right. I mean, essentially, many of these countries share resentments about the way global wealth and economic power is currently distributed. But the thing is they approach the solution differently. Whereas Russia, China, and Iran perhaps see BRICS through this geopolitical lens, a way to take on the West. Others, like India and Brazil, aren't interested in that same level of antagonism. They strike a more neutral stance, for example, when it comes to Putin's actions in Ukraine. They basically want to see what BRICS can do for them and to make the world economy more fair and just. So beyond the symbolism of it all, is there anything concrete expected to come out of the next few days?

13:18Well, there are going to be a lot of bilateral meetings between leaders. So I'm sure you'll see a bunch of deals. Russia and Iran are expected to also sign a strategic partnership agreement that will be closely watched by the West. But if Putin has his way, this conference will make significant progress in one area in particular, ending the dominance of the U.S. dollar. He wants to see BRICS nations come up with new financial mechanisms that could ultimately sanction-proof economies like Russia's from the West. That's NPR's Charles Maines in Moscow. Thank you, Charles. Thank you.

13:51And that's up first for Tuesday, October 22nd. I'm Leila Faldin. And I'm A. Martinez. Our co-hosts, Michelle Martin and Steve Inskeep, are in Pennsylvania this week listening to voters. You can find more of our Morning Edition coverage of The Swing State in the NPR app. Just look in the podcast section or on your local NPR station. Today's episode of Up First was edited by Barry Hardiman, Susanna Capilouto, Ryland Barton, Lisa Thompson, and Alice Wolfley. It was produced by Paige Waterhouse, Nia Dumas, and Katie Kline. We get engineering support from Andy Huther, and our technical director is Stacey Abbott.

14:23Join us again tomorrow.

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