U.S. In Venezuela, Future Of Venezuela, Maduro In NYC Court

0:01President Trump declares the United States is in charge of Venezuela. Trump also warned Venezuela's new leadership to fall in line. If they don't behave, we will do a second shot. How does the White House plan to run the country without troops on the ground? I'm Steve Inskeep with A. Martinez, and this is Up First from NPR News. After making defiant remarks against the United States, Venezuela's acting leader is now bowing to U.S. threats. Nicolás Maduro's former vice president, Delce Rodriguez, is extending an invitation of cooperation. How far is she actually willing to go? And Maduro is due in a New York courtroom today.

0:39He's facing drug, weapon, and narco-terrorism charges. Can the U.S. legally try a foreign leader seized overseas? Stay with us. We've got all the news you need to start your day.

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1:36Listen to Trump's terms on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaking to reporters on Air Force One on Sunday, President Trump was asked who's in charge of Venezuela. Don't ask me who's in charge because I'll give you an answer and it'll be very controversial. What does that mean? It means we're in charge. Okay, we still don't know what that means. Federal authorities bring President Nicolás Maduro into court in the United States today. The U.S. has otherwise left the Venezuelan government in place, expecting it to obey orders. For more, we're joined by NPR national security correspondent Greg Myrie.

2:10So, Greg, what does it mean for President Trump to be in charge of Venezuela? Well, it's absolutely not clear. The U.S. forces that seized Maduro dashed in and out of the country in less than three hours before dawn on Saturday morning. There are no U.S. troops there now. Also, the U.S. embassy in Venezuela was shut down back in 2019, so there's no U.S. diplomatic presence. The large U.S. military contingent is still nearby. Many are on ships in the Caribbean, and Trump says he's prepared for further military action if he feels it's needed. But the president doesn't appear to want a full-scale, open-ended U.S.

2:49military occupation. So if Trump and his team are simply trying to run the place from afar, they may have limited influence. Now, Secretary of State Marco Rubio was on a lot of TV shows yesterday. How did he frame what the administration plans to do? Well, a little bit differently than Trump. Rubio said the U.S. goal is to shape policies in Venezuela. The U.S. would be assessing what steps the government there takes. He cited issues like stopping drug trafficking and migration in a country where millions have fled in recent years, many heading to the U.S. Now, he noted the U.S. is still blocking oil tankers on a U.S.

3:26sanctions list from coming to or leaving from Venezuela. And this gives the U.S. huge leverage over the country's most valuable resource. Trump also wants U.S. oil companies to make billion-dollar investments to upgrade that oil industry. But we'll have to see how eager these oil companies might be to go into a country and make a big commitment when the place is in such an uncertain state. Delce Rodriguez was Venezuela's vice president. She's now become the interim president. How does she fit into all this? Yeah, so Trump seems to be setting the terms of how he'll cooperate with her and the government that sort of left in place in Venezuela.

4:05Trump gave an interview to The Atlantic magazine on Sunday. And speaking of Rodriguez, he said, quote, if she doesn't do what's right, she is going to pay a very big price, probably bigger than Maduro. And speaking to reporters on Air Force One, Trump repeated his threat of more military action in Venezuela. If they don't behave, we will do a second strike. That may be a bit hard to hear. He's saying if they don't behave, we will do a second strike. and Maduro's top aides, his loyalists, and the military and security forces remain in place and they simply may not adopt the policies that Trump would like to see.

4:43Now, Trump has long been opposed to getting involved in foreign entanglements, especially long-standing ones. So how does all that fit into what he has said in the past? So this is very much at odds with one of Trump's more consistent positions over the years, No foreign wars. But now he's talking about his own updated version of the Monroe Doctrine, first stated by President James Monroe 200 years ago. It's been interpreted variously by different presidents, but it's come to mean the U.S. should play the dominant role in this hemisphere. We should also note some more recent history when the U.S.

5:18has ousted or helped oust notorious leaders of oil-rich countries, Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Muammar Gaddafi in Libya. In both cases, the U.S. believed oil would lead to a swift rebuilding of those countries. But what followed was chaos. That's NPR's Greg Myrie. Greg, thanks. Sure thing, eh? As described by U.S. officials, the concept for Venezuela is an old-style colonial model. The United States does not propose to install a new government. In fact, it has brushed aside the opposition candidate that the United States itself says won the 2024 election. Maria Corina Machado, the recipient of the Nobel Prize, is also left out.

5:56Instead, the U.S. proposes to give orders to the current socialist government on whatever issues the U.S. cares about. NPR's Carrie Kahn is in Colombia. So, Carrie, Delce Rodriguez, Nicolas Maduro's vice president, she's now the interim president, is she going to take orders from the U.S.? She at least seems to have changed her tone after President Trump threatened her with a worse fate than Maduro. You heard that. In her statement out late yesterday, Rodriguez addressed President Trump directly. She said, our people, our region deserve peace and dialogue, not war, and she's willing to cooperate.

6:31That's just quite a swift turnaround from her very defiant show Saturday, calling the U.S. action a barbarity and demanding Maduro's return. It's also clear that, as you said, she is now called Venezuela's leader. She was sworn into office Saturday, or as the state media in Venezuela is calling it, she was ordered to assume the presidency. And that was by the regime's loyalist Supreme Court. Now, Carrie, you've talked with Maria Corina Machado, the opposition leader, who used to have the United States support. Is the U.S. accepting the socialist government in Venezuela as legitimate now? Secretary of State Marco Rubio was asked that on his media appearances yesterday.

7:09Yesterday, he just brushed off legitimacy questions and said, for now, the U.S. just has to work with those still in Venezuela since leading opponents aren't in the country. And Rubio said he's sure that those that are still there will follow U.S. demands after watching the military remove Maduro. Here's Rubio on NBC's Meet the Press. It had to be done and it's been done. And I assure you, the people left behind in Venezuela now that are in charge of the police and everything else, I assure you they're going to probably be a lot more compliant than Maduro was as a result of this. And we also heard some more details about Saturday's U.S.

7:44invasion that were interesting. The Cuban government announced that 32 of its citizens, including military personnel, were killed during the U.S. operation. And they were actively engaging U.S. forces. It's been long believed that Cuba, close and vital allies, was sending soldiers and intelligence agents and even providing security for Maduro. So that was stunning yesterday. Carrie, tell us a little bit more about Delce Rodriguez. Sure. She's been the vice president for more than seven years. She's credited with stabilizing the economy after just turmoil and years of hyperinflation. She has two main roles, and one has been overseeing the oil industry.

8:21She also oversees the regime's greatly feared intelligence service, so she has good relations with the military. Her brother is the head of the National Assembly, so she's definitely an insider with this long, hard-line resume. It's unclear how those relationships are going to hold up when she's seen to be helping the U.S. government. Now, it's only been a few days, but how are Venezuelans dealing with all this? There are still long lines being formed in some stores stocking up. The government held a rally in support of Maduro yesterday. It did fill a few blocks. Here's 64-year-old Rodolfo Ramirez.

8:55He's a high school teacher. He said he came out to tell Trump Venezuelans will defend their country.

9:03Trump don't come here and rob us. Get your head out of the clouds, he said. And he warned that if Trump comes for Venezuela's oil, he'll have to kill us all. He said he's not getting a single drop. And in another development last night, the man widely believed to have won the last presidential election in 2024, Edmundo Gonzalez, he put out a video calling himself the president and demanding the release of all political prisoners in Venezuela. That's NPR's Carrie Kahn in Colombia. Carrie, thanks. You're welcome. Nicolas Maduro and his wife Celia Flores are starting their day in a Brooklyn jail.

9:38Their midday court appearance is to be on drug trafficking and other charges. Their arrest over the weekend in the middle of Venezuela's capital raises questions about the reach of American law. Here's NPR justice correspondent Carrie Johnson. So Carrie, what are the allegations against Maduro and his family? A grand jury in New York first indicted Maduro back in 2020. Then a new grand jury there added new charges recently and added new defendants, too. Maduro faces four felony charges. That includes narco-terrorism conspiracy, conspiracy to import tons of cocaine, and possession of machine guns and other destructive devices.

10:15U.S. law enforcement accuses Maduro of sitting at the top of a vast conspiracy, basically to line his pockets by overseeing the flow of drugs into the U.S. and helping violent cartels along the way. Maduro's wife, Celia Flores, a former attorney general of Venezuela, also faces charges. The Trump administration had placed a$50 million reward for information leading to the capture of Maduro, and Attorney General Pam Bondi says they will soon face the full wrath of American justice on American soil in American courts. So let's break down the scale of this whole thing, because the operation, I mean, air, land, sea, middle of the night inside a foreign capital.

10:55I mean, how does the Trump administration justify such an extraordinary move? The Trump administration has not released any detailed legal analysis or other reasoning to explain the basis for this operation called absolute resolve. But Secretary of State Marco Rubio says this was a law enforcement action, not a military invasion. Maduro was arrested by FBI agents and read his rights, Rubio says. Here's more from Rubio on the ABC show this week with George Stephanopoulos. Obviously, this was not a friendly territory. So in order to arrest him, we had to ask the Department of War to become involved in this operation.

11:30The Department of War went in, they hit anything that was a threat to the agents that were going in to arrest him, and they hit anything that was a threat on the way out. And that was a very limited and targeted operation. The Trump administration seems to be relying on a controversial Justice Department memo by Bill Barr who was attorney general in Trump's first term. That memo was from 1989, and it paved the way for American law enforcement to make arrests in other countries, even if those actions might violate international law. The memo was issued months before the U.S. captured Panamanian leader Manuel Noriega and sent him to the U.S.

12:08to face charges. Noriega fought back and mostly lost, but that legal fight took a lot of years. So eventually, Nicolas Maduro is going to make an argument in court. What might that be? Maduro might argue that he should enjoy immunity as a head of state in Venezuela, even though the Trump administration says he was not elected freely and fairly. Maduro also might try to challenge how the U.S. captured him. But legal scholars say that could be difficult because there's a lot of Supreme Court precedents saying it doesn't matter how a defendant gets onto American soil once they're here. And then there's one more complication.

12:45American courts don't really like to weigh in on sensitive matters related to a president's national security power. So U.S. courts could be leery about protests from Maduro and others that the administration failed to notify Congress or get any approval before this operation. NPR Justice Correspondent, Carrie Johnson. Carrie, thanks. Thank you.

13:10And that's Up First for Monday, January 5th. I'm Ian Martinez. And I'm Steve Enskeep. Consider this. Up First gives you the three big stories of the day, and our podcast, Consider This, takes a different approach, diving into a single big story in less than 15 minutes. Listen now on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. Today's episode of Up First was edited by Andrew Sussman, Tara Neal, Krishnadev, Calamore, Mohamed El-Bardisi, and H.J. Mai. It was produced by Ziad Butch, Nia Dumas, and Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Nisha Hainas, and our technical director is Carly Strange.

13:41Join us again tomorrow.