A new era of Lewis Hamilton v Max Verstappen rivalry?

0:02This is a Global Player original podcast. For the first time, we saw Lewis able to wring the neck of these new 2026 cars.

0:10Lewis Hamilton:Every time I see the two of them share a square meter of tarmac, I'm like, PTSD. 2021 was vicious.

0:18Max Verstappen:You could tell that it's a much friendlier chapter for now. Game recognizes game, doesn't it?

0:24Will:If they're not fighting for titles, they need to be having fun.

0:34Will:Up to Speed

0:39It's Will It's Naomi Welcome to Up to Speed Just the two of us I was going to sing that I was going to sing that Oh mate Great minds Great minds Yeah just the two of us Just the two of us Will Where are you?

1:00Max Verstappen:So I'm back in the studio in Paris. I used to think that I move around a lot, but like you're on another level. Now you've done a red eye back home after the Indy 500, where we're obviously going to get into all of that today. But everyone saying, Will did such a fantastic job. We've got to talk about it. Yes, we will. We will talk about it. How on earth did you teleport? I was actually at the Speedway on Monday, I did some interviews, saw Lando, who was in town, which was really great. We'll talk about that in a minute. And yeah, then jumped on a plane, two planes actually, came home, got home, hugged my little girl, took her swimming.

1:43Thus, my hair is all over the place for those watching. Apologies for that. And then and then head back home. And here we are for another episode of Up to Speed, where we can look back on a couple of things about Canada that we didn't get to talk about. In the last episode. And I think we didn't really have enough time to discuss Lewis and Max and their battle. And, you know, really, because for both of them, it's not been easy. You know, Lewis, you know, for the last year and a bit. Max, particularly this year. And so to sort of see them both so happy, see them both racing, like properly racing again.

2:20And particularly given their history as well and their relationship and how different it felt after the race. I think probably a good opportunity to talk a little bit about that.

2:29Lewis Hamilton:Yeah, I don't know how you felt watching it, Will, because obviously, you know that those are two fantastic, phenomenal drivers, right? So when you see them go head to head, it's exciting always. But I don't know why, since that whole year that played itself out in 2021, every time I see the two of them share a square meter of tarmac, I'm like, PTSD. You get edgy, right? It's giving me PTSD. I don't know about you. Yeah, no, I know what you mean. I think we really got robbed of what could have been an epic battle between those two during that 22, 23, 24, 25 era of regulations. Because the car just, you know, it never suited Lewis.

3:11He was never happy with it. And people just assumed, oh, you know, Lewis dropped off after 21. I never believed that a driver just loses his skill set overnight to go from being a championship contender. to yeah to like mid overnight that just never made any sense to me um and there was always this this one generation of driver that didn't seem well suited to that last set of regulations and so you know the whole thing had built itself up to 21 you had these two generational greats and then we were robbed of seeing that championship fight for the ages continue year on year on year so you know these cars were supposed to be lighter they were supposed to be more nimble they were supposed to play back into lewis's hands and be the kind of car that he liked and i think you know at the weekend for the first time we saw lewis able to wring the neck of these new 2026 cars we saw him dancing it around you know max got past him in the early part of the race then he gets past max at the end and it was just honestly it's just a joy and a joy also to see two people who clearly have grown um after the animosity of 21 have clearly grown a level of mutual respect for one another um so i i enjoyed it tremendously well i you know just touching on

4:23Lewis Hamilton:that i remember the the very first interview i did when i walked into the f1 paddock was a sit down with lewis hamilton and this was a couple of months after what happened in abidabee i think it was actually his first sit down since no pressure whatsoever like you know also my first time in this environment like doing one-on-one interviews was not something i'd really done much of before um and then also i remember that interview i remember that remember it yeah i remember it i remember it was a really good interview well thank you well i remember telling lewis before i actually did the interview that i was incredibly nervous because i'd grown up you know borderline idolizing him he was really like my hero growing up i looked up to him and so to share this moment with him which like i wanted to fill with joy and happiness and we also had to talk about you know abidabi i mean he disappeared off the grid for a while we didn't know if he was coming back or not like there was a lot to unpack all that to say we did touch on max um i asked him about coming back into the paddock and what it was going to be like and already then lewis was very clear that you know as much as everything that went down in the year you know because even abu dhabi aside there was a lot of hardcore wheel to wheel racing between the two of them a lot of borderline stuff um he just said you know what at the end of the day he's my rival and like are we gonna be best mates probably not but I'm still going to respect him as a competitor on track and so I think there's always been that that sort of respect with them and it was interesting to see the way that they were so cordial with each other in the cool down room I mean you know you can tell that it's probably still not natural for them to like engage easily because there is you don't just forget that there's going to be some of that competitive scar tissue that will last forever I don't think anyone's forgetting that anytime soon but they make an effort to be cordial with each other and and they respect each other and and that's what we saw play itself out on track um in Canada which was great racing in my opinion yeah and they're you know they're very different generations aren't they they're different ages they're not going to be hanging out outside of the track like you know a Charles and a Carlos and a George and a Lando and all these you know and Alex who've all grown up together and moved up the the series together they're they're completely different generations so i can't imagine them ever being best mates and you know hanging out in monaco and going for dinner together but um cordial i think is is is the right way of saying it you know 2021 was vicious at points and it wasn't just lewis versus max it was the whole team operation against each other whether it was team bosses or sporting directors and um the way race by race the pressure mounted and the intensity mounted and that was reflected with the way that they raced each other they were constantly pushing themselves and pushing each other not just to the edge but over the edge sometimes um and so many times many times and so when it you know when it did come to a head in Abu Dhabi and it all played out the way that it did.

7:22One thing I thought was really, really sort of, if you roll it forward to what we saw in Canada, the first person to go up and commiserate with Lewis was Seb.

7:33Will:And those two didn't have necessarily the easiest history. You look back in Baku, what year was it, where Seb literally side by side rammed Lewis. It wasn't always cordial and easy between those two, But I think once you recognize somebody as being a world champion and not just a one time, but, you know, a generational for Max now a four time champion, as Seb was, you know, game recognizes game, doesn't it? And there's that mutual respect that kind of exists between them. What I would have given to have seen Lewis 22, 23, 24 and Max in the form that he was in 22, 23, 24, racing wheel to wheel in cars that had the measure of each other.

8:21That's like, you know, that's God like tear. And I'm so sad. So sad we never got to see it. But what this does do as well is it shows the turnaround for Ferrari. It shows Lewis in a really, really good place, which we haven't seen for a while.

8:37Will:Very vocal at the weekend about how he hasn't used simulator, how using the simulator for prep has actually put him on the wrong foot. And then he gets into the car and he feels completely discombobulated with it. and how what they need to be doing now is actually using the race drivers to take their knowledge of the car back to the sim to improve the sim because you have the test driver in the sim who's relaying all this information to them and as lewis said look it's just me and charles in the car and we're getting all this data and we're getting all this information and we'll jump in the sim and we'll feel something and then we'll get into the car and it doesn't it doesn't actually feel the same so it's almost like he i didn't get the impression that he's just turned around to ferrari and gone your simulator is shit.

9:17Will:I'm not getting in that again. But it's more just the simulator doesn't have the same feel as the car right now. And until it does, it doesn't actually provide me any benefit at all to use it as preparation for the racing.

9:31Lewis Hamilton:Yeah. I mean, which kind of does say that it's shit, right? No. I mean, look, if you're saying it's not working and it's not correlating, then what's the point of it really? But I'm not going to say it should have never driven it. And I don't think he's come out to say that. So we're not going to speculate that that's how he feels but it is such a crucial part of prep in this day and age and um of course if it doesn't work for Lewis and he's made the decision that he's not going to use it and he decided that before Canada he had an incredible result in Canada and so I'm assuming he's going to continue to avoid the simulator until he feels that maybe it correlates his personal feeling onto the track but at the same time I mean I remember having a conversation with Jack Dew and I think it was in budapest 2023 uh 2024 possibly do i remember that correctly he was in the sim then still for alpine yeah um yeah and he had said he was at the factory all night long yeah doing laps on the sim on the on the friday night so that they could have a better setup for quali or going in ftfb3 and everything and then he flew to the track so the teams are constantly churning out laps data etc through the simulator putting on different setups and then feeding back that information live throughout the weekend to the team so if it doesn't correlate that is a concern right it's a massive issue right the only thing is we don't know exactly if the issue is that it doesn't correlate or if that lewis has a different feeling yeah in the sim versus the track so we can't assume that that's what it is because maybe their sim is great and charles hasn't yet said that he's going to follow suit and maybe avoid the sim as well i mean maybe at some point And he'll say, maybe I'll avoid it for my prep and see how that turns out.

11:10Lewis Hamilton:But for now, that's not the case. So let's wait to see what it actually comes down to. And maybe in Monaco, we can ask Lewis more about it and find out, you know, is it more of a correlation issue with the simulator? Or is it just more that, you know, some drivers love the simulator. I remember throughout lockdown, you had Max, you had Charles, you had Alex Elbin, you had loads of them going online, racing on the sims. And that's just something they do in their free time. I mean, Lewis is not from that generation, right?

11:36Will:They were doing the truck simulator. They were sitting in lorries driving across Europe. That's how bored we got during lockdown is we were watching videos. I developed carpal tunnel.

11:51Max Verstappen:No, listen, I developed carpal tunnel doing the same thing. Did you really? Yeah, I did.

11:57Lewis Hamilton:I actually took advice from Max on what sim to get because I knew that he was like, that was his thing. And I was also, I used to work with a guy called Atze Kerkhoff who runs his Team Redline, which is not called Team Redline anymore. Now it's called Team Verstappen Racing or something. But he used to have a simulator facility in the Netherlands that I used to go to to train at W Series races because I didn't have budget for actual on track practice or testing. So that was the only form of testing I got. And so Atze was very key in it. And then I also, you know, asked Max for some advice on like what seat to go with.

12:32Lewis Hamilton:Should I go for the Formula seat or the GT seat? And he was like, your feet are going to go numb if you get the formula seat, just get the GT seat. So I went with that. And he was kind enough to send me a couple of setups as well. So that was really cool. Nice. But yeah, so that was lockdown. Now back to Canada and Max and the rivalry. It's got like, you could tell that it's a much friendlier chapter for now. But I have no doubt that once, if ever, you know, that rivalry becomes more about a championship title, which it's not, right? There's enough distance between them and a championship fight.

13:04Lewis Hamilton:at the moment for them to go racing in each other in a fight that they can enjoy, I would say.

13:10Will:And ultimately, that's the thing. I think that's the thing that's going to keep both of them racing long term, you know, is if they're not fighting for titles, they need to be having fun. And what more fun can you have than racing with somebody that you recognize as being not just on a level with you but you know a fellow world champion recognizing the skills that each other have you know you're not tooling around for 11th place you're you're fighting with with a great with somebody who's achieved what you have and you know who's held at that same level and how fun how fun is is that i imagine for both of them it's probably it's probably more fun and more rewarding to win those battles maybe than even against, you know, for Lewis even winning against, you know, if it was for second place winning against a Kimi or winning against a Charles or whoever.

14:07Will:And that's not to do them a disservice, but it's just you're fighting a world champion and there's a level that comes with that.

14:15Lewis Hamilton:And as you say, I mean, there's world champions and then there's world champions. And I think that amongst the two of them, I think that they both have a undeniable respect for each other's talent. And so, you know, that in itself speaks for why they might be cordial

14:29Max Verstappen:or why they might respect each other in a way that maybe some others would have just written each other off, you know?

14:33Will:Yeah, yeah. And Lewis's mum was there who appears to be his sort of his lucky charm.

14:41Max Verstappen:Lucky charm. There you go. Lucky charm at the moment. We've got a lot of ditto going on today, you and I, Will. I know. We're on the same wavelength, mate. But did you see Nick, Lewis's little brother? I saw his first... Got a podium in British touring cars. Yeah, fantastic. If there is an inspirational story out there,

14:58Lewis Hamilton:I mean, that's quite up on the list, isn't it? It's huge. For those who don't know, Nick Hamilton is Lewis's little brother. And I still... I met Nick first back in end of 2004, start of 2005. So I've always known him as like... And I still think of him as like Lewis's little brother, like a kid in school. And he's not. He's a proper grown man. But Nick has cerebral palsy. And when I first met Nick, he was in a wheelchair. And the fact that Nick is up and about and racing and got a podium in British touring cars at the weekend. I mean, the guy is just a massive inspiration. He's a lovely, lovely guy.

15:43and just it's just a great it's just a great story it's just a brilliant feel-good story you know both of them on the podium the same weekend it's just it's super cool yeah and also just the

15:52Lewis Hamilton:messages that that sends out I mean I remember you know Nick tells his story that when he was very little the doctors told his parents that he'd probably never be able to walk or you know he wouldn't walk for a long time anyway and he's completely defied those odds and to not only be walking but to be racing and to be getting onto podiums is incredible stuff and so yeah congratulations nick well done we are very proud and there's a lot of people out there who are going to be very inspired who you've all of a sudden you know knocked down barriers that people thought could never be moved um and so well done great great great job just over the moon for him over the moon for him but it was great to see lewis's mom out in canada carmen labalestia which is the name that i always trip over a little bit i think i got it right there labalestia

16:38Max Verstappen:It's very good. It's very good. She looks so sweet, doesn't she? I mean, she just looks like I want to give her a cuddle.

16:46Lewis Hamilton:But Lewis was saying over the weekend that he's been trying to get her to travel more. And she always sort of had like kind of excuses. I guess not everybody wants to travel that much. You never know. Maybe there's some flight anxiety. We don't know why there were excuses. But apparently this year she decided she's going to travel to a couple of races.

17:02Max Verstappen:So she went out to China where Lewis was obviously on the podium. And then she was out in Canada. Lewis on the podium again. And so you're right. It's looking like she might be needing to be at all the races. So we'll cut the sim out and we'll make sure Carmen's there. And that looks like it's the recipe.

17:16Will:Yeah, that's it. That's it. The family group chat between Lewis and his mom is going to be, Hi, mom, booked you a flight to every race for the rest of the year. Sorry, no choice. No choice. Yeah, sorry. Sorry. Sorry, I don't have the PJ anymore. It's going to have to be commercial.

17:35Max Verstappen:Yeah, I think she'll be taken care of anyway. But we know that Lewis, I think I've always got the sense that Lewis is very mindful about who he surrounds himself with. And I think that he has realized over the years that those sort of energies have an impact on him. And I remember the year that he won in Silverstone. Was that 24 as well? Yeah, that was 24, wasn't it? Yeah.

17:58Lewis Hamilton:It had been like a really long run since he'd had a victory. Actually, that was the first victory I'd seen him have in the time that I was in F1. And I thought like, what is going on? I felt like I've been sold a dream I got to f1 and I've never seen Lewis on the top step of the podium you'd think that like you'd never assume that that was going to be the case but you remember that weekend I mean the the emotional outpour that there was from Lewis and the fact that he had started to have this real sense of self-doubt um and that it was just so important for him to to do that again for himself but that he also had his whole family there that weekend and so

18:30Max Verstappen:you know maybe it is one of those things and from an emotional psychological perspective to have the right people around you just gives energy doesn't it it does it does it's so important it's so so critical i mean i remember lewis going through the years um the really difficult years that he had at mclaren so after he won the title um you know because he he was traveling in the early years he was traveling with nicole who was his girlfriend at the time and then they split and