Can Kimi Antonelli bring the fight back to Ferrari in Spa?

0:02This is a global production. It is one of the great tracks, there's no question. It's a high-speed roller coaster. Are they still the team to beat? Ferrari has entered the chat. Kimi's just lap after lap after lap. He's just relentless. I remember just seeing him when they're bursting into tears because I knew I'd broken my leg.

0:21Max Verstappen:I think the moral of the story is do not go skydiving the morning of a race.

0:30Max Verstappen:Up to Speed.

0:35Max Verstappen:It's Will. It's Naomi. It's David. Welcome to Up to Speed. Naomi, we had a wonderful episode, thanks to you, on Monday at Goodwood. How was it? How was the week? Festival of Speed is such a mega, like it's such a mega event every single year. I was most excited to see Lightning McQueen tap up, to be completely honest. Well, listen, I traveled in on the day. So it felt like I spent more of the day traveling than actually spending enough time at Goodwood. But we were there for a chunk of time. And I have to say the little bit of time that we were there, it was my first occasion at Goodwood, actually, because it always falls in this period of four races in five weeks.

1:15And it's the one week where we don't have racing. So I typically, you know, take that week off. But what an event. I mean, every sort of corner you turn, you see another incredible piece of motorsport history.

1:26Max Verstappen:very dusty though but nonetheless fantastic fantastic event but I don't think it was possibly as fantastic as DC's wedding maybe DC how was the wedding? I think that was probably the biggest motorsport highlight of the weekend yeah well it certainly took away a few people that would normally be at Goodwood but yeah it was absolutely awesome as you can tell from my voice I'm still recovering from the traditional Scottish three-day bender but I as much as I was delighted to be getting married to Sigrid. Obviously, an element of me was going, ah, Goodwood looks really cool. And my son, who's up here, was showing me some images of various cars going extremely quickly up that hill.

2:09So brave drivers that go there and put on a show. Well, a huge congratulations to you and Sigrid. I hope that her voice is as bad as yours right now and that everybody had a true Scottish bender and had a great time. Unfortunately, we weren't there to experience it we will never forgive you we might need a redo maybe just an up-to-speed wedding like an intimate sort of yes everybody i like the idea of that we will get some time together yes beautiful stuff um but of course dc you don't have time for a honeymoon um as you must depart for spa uh it's one of the greats isn't it guys it's one of the one of the all-time kind of classic tracks that everyone loves.

2:51Yeah. Well, Naomi, I was just trying to figure out, because I know that you've done a couple of 25-hour races there. So technically, you've actually done more hours of racing around Spa than I managed in my 15 years of Formula One, because the race is only about an hour and a half in Grand Prix terms. I have to tell you, well, obviously there's the very famous 24 hours of Spa race, which is why this race that I raced in was called the 25 hours, because they couldn't call it a 24-hour race. And I think I drove more than what I bargained for, to be honest, because I did it on two occasions. And the second time was a little bit more normal.

3:28But the first time around, we were a four driver lineup. One of our drivers was essentially our sponsor. So more like a gentleman driver's style profile. And he only wanted to do the best of it. So we knew from the get go, he only wanted to do the start and he wanted to do the finish. So those stints were taken off the board.

3:46Max Verstappen:and then there were three like youngsters that were going to do the rest of the hard work except one of the youngsters decided he was going to go skydiving the morning of the race and happened to break i think at least one but possibly both of his ankles on landings god um i think the moral of the story is do not go skydiving the morning of a race um but so that basically left me and my other co-driver sam to do the entirety of the race so we i did like multiple double stints and the double stint in those cars was three hours um so i think i drove at least at least nine hours if not more did that young driver ever amount to anything is is it a name again i mean i i know that he was okay besides the ankles but um never heard of him career ender that's it game over yeah but i have to say it helped me to know every single bump on the circuit and this was in the fun cup i don't know if you guys know what the fun cup is but it's like vw beetle silhouette cars there's three different categories some of the teams have passengers on board um and it's hilarious i mean the slipstream up au rouge radiant down the lecombe straight is like four cars abreast you have all the time in the world to laugh and wave lots of good fun we should definitely organize one for the team and dc you won you won the grand prix there man like it's it's one of of those races that every Grand Prix driver wants to win.

5:14How meaningful was it for you to take that victory at that classic circuit? Yeah, that was 99, which came off the back of 98, which was the multiple car crash on the first lap exiting the source. And Michael tried to thump you. Yeah, Michael came looking for a fight. But I still had my helmet on, so I could have taken a punch for sure um so yeah it was it was very meaningful and it was also uh you know Mika had won the championship 98 and you know I needed to be trying to turn that around and we touched at the first corner he went into a bit of a sulk and I just disappeared off and dominated the race so yeah look it is one of the great tracks there's no question most of the drivers would put it in their top three, if not number one.

6:07And if I look at my career, then I'm very proud to have won Monaco, Silverson, Monza and Spa, particularly because they're the tracks that have been around since, you know, the beginning of the World Championship. And such incredible, yeah, historical circuits. Has Mika ever forgotten about that decisive move you made on him? I mean, I know you two go on tour. I'm sure that there's loads of stories around it. Yeah, look, he's forgiven me now. He was up here in Scotland at the weekend. He actually very sportingly put a kilt on and I know that you recently had a kilt on and I know just how liberating it is but that was a good sport in doing that Amazing and you know Mika can't be that upset he has one of the all-time great Formula 1 passes at Spa in 2000 when he and Michael coming down the Lecombe Strait and Ricciardo Zonta in the middle of the track Michael goes one way Mika goes the other passes them both brilliant like one of those defining moments in F1 history.

7:06Yeah, and we actually, unsurprisingly, talk about that when we do the tour together and we show a video, courtesy of Formula One. Thank you very much for that. Because it's still breathtaking today that it was, you know, seat of the pants, last minute decision making. And I think poor Zonta would probably have had to change these underpants after that, getting passed on one side by Ferrari and by the McLaren on the other side. at very high speed. Ricciardo had a few sort of pant-changing moments at Spa, didn't he? There was that famous year when he was with BAR, and his teammate was Jacques Villeneuve, and they were having a conversation.

7:44Do you think we can do a Rouge flat? And they were like, yeah, definitely, right. And so they had a bet. So one of them goes out, tries to do a Rouge flat, absolutely stacks it at the top of the hill into the barriers, cars in a million pieces, driver's okay, gets out of the car. And then teammate decides, well, he's an idiot, He wasn't able to do it. I'll do it. Totally writes off his car as well. It's one of those brilliant moments, again, of F1 history, of drivers being absolutely stupid. And team boss Craig Pollack, I think it was at the time, was, I think, quite rightfully, utterly furious.

8:22You've got to say, though, that Spy, you know, I mean, I know, DC, you said it's probably in drivers' top three. And to give listeners and viewers at home a little bit of context on why that is, I mean, I'd love to get your take on a 2 DC, but it's just the fact that the circuit just offers so much to a driver. I mean, you've got high, it's very high speed. You've got a lot of high braking zones. You've got elevation change, a lot of blind corners. And yeah, it's just like a real thrill out of a changing of rhythm on the circuit. And I've driven it in a couple of different categories. And I have to say that the Eau Rouge Radillon combination is one that today in a Formula One car is, let's call it easy flat, meaning full throttle quite easily.

9:04But in a lot of other categories, it's really not that easy. And it's all about where you place your car going into Eau Rouge that kind of determines what the outcome is. But DC, was it, I mean, you know, the years where you raced there, 99, 98, etc. Was that, was it as easy flat as it is today? Or was it a real sort of, you know, potential brown sector area yeah look it wasn't it was not easy flat um because we we didn't have the tarmac runoff at the top of the hill on the left hand side so we we had the sort of threading the eye of the tarmac um needle and then if you did make a mistake and go beyond the curb you were in gravel or grass and led to what would be a big accident so yeah it's a circuit where you absolutely have to respect the corner and it's a high-speed roller coaster it's it's an insane place to drive a grand prix car absolute you know peak adrenaline um and even i think even in the lower formula when i first raced it was opel lotus which is like maybe formula four or w series that you experienced at the time and yeah i don't recall because those cars were very soft the compression at the bottom would mean that you would rub on the ground and lose load into the tyres.

10:23I also broke my leg there between whatever the left-hander at the top of the hill and Pouin, an Opel Lotus. I got spun around on the first lap by Kenny Brack, who you will know from IndyCar fame. And I hit the barrier on the left-hand side, came back in front of the pack, and another car, T-boned me right on the side of the chassis, which compressed the aluminium and I broke my right leg. And I remember when the field were coming round at the end of the first lap and I'm out of the car on the grass, I remember Jules de Ferrand sort of giving me a thumbs up to check if I was okay. And I remember just seeing him bursting into tears because I knew I'd broken my leg.

11:08And that was that. And they took me to the medical centre because we were the F1 support race. uh said watkins who was the legendary medical officer for formula one um came into the room they cut my race suit off me and i had my lucky underpants on which had holes in them that's where the story comes from there you go there you go and my mother was brought into the medical room as well and she was very disappointed to see i had holy underpants on but wait so were they still

11:40Max Verstappen:considered lucky after that or no they're not so lucky underpants okay i heard you used them to to polish your helmet after that to sort of keep the luck or is that an old wives tale no no i had it was a three pack so it wasn't just one pair but uh they got rotated during a race weekend but yeah i retired them after that and then they still traveled with me in my bag um you know so the only superstition I ever had and then at some point during my McLaren years um they they got throughout someone tidying my my kit bag and I just had to I just had to deal with the fact that you know there's no such thing really as a lucky pair of pants that's so funny what is it with racing drivers and underpants I mean I was the same I also had a four set of underwear that was like okay this was Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday underwear and it was always in that order and god forbid that one of them would go missing because then oh my god i love that i love that we've got to talk about the present day um and obviously it's a very different formula one this year it's a very different formula we may get rain um because it's spa and if it's not raining it's usually getting ready to rain so like what like what do we think the modern cars will be like on this circuit when we look at, you know, deployment and recharging and all of that, and then throw in the extra complication potentially of proper rain for the first time?

13:06Yeah, well, I think that some drivers thrive in the rain. You think Max Verstappen, you think Lewis Hamilton, and Lewis is definitely firing on all cylinders with this modern formula. It also gives, I think, cars and drivers that, you know, not really getting a look in for podiums, a chance to shine um the fact that it's such a long track means that you get variations of wetness around the circuit and some parts of it drain better than others um and you get sort of rivers effectively going across the track which anyone who's driven a racing car will know that when they run so low if you have a river sort of diagonally across the racetrack it can almost act like a rudder in turning the car.

13:52So I think now modern F1, they tend to be a bit more cautious about how wet the conditions are that they would go racing, which on one hand, I feel kind of is unfair to the legends of the past who were out there in any condition going racing. On the other hand, of course, I recognize, as you mentioned earlier, Naomi, there's a lot of blind corners. and if you come around a blank corner and someone's in the middle of the track, then that can have fatal consequences. So let's hope if it does rain, it's just enough to mean they have to get the enters or get the wets on. I mean, the weather can be completely different on one end of the circuit to the other.

14:33I mean, it's a seven kilometre lap, the longest on the calendar. And that's why also strategy plays a big role in this because if you miss the window to pit, you've got seven kilometres to get back round of treacherous potential conditions. And also, there's a lot of different sort of surfaces of tarmac. Some are slightly more greasy where some of you could find more grip. So it is a real challenge for the drivers when it does rain around Spa because it's a circuit that requires so much confidence in your car and your setup. Are we going to have to see lifting through some of those famous corners, you know, through a Rouge?

15:06are they going to have to lift in order to regen so they're not topping out and then losing power at the end of that really long you know camel straight at the top of the hill like what because it's such a long lap right and it has so many really long straights the the three sectors are quite distinct in the sector one and sector three are all about top speed and lots of long straights you think that run up the hill from Blanchiment all the way back up to the hairpin at the top that's just vast surely they're going to be you know sort of de-selling at the at the top of that um but then the middle sector is all about cornering um so setup is a fascinating one but but for me it's you know this modern f1 car how how do we think it's it's going to be are they going to be lifting through through eau rouge is that going to lose some of its appeal yeah i i don't see how they cannot um you know neutralize some of the faster corners you get the biggest regen at the highest speed.

16:03Quite obviously, if you have a lift, you're putting a massive amount of energy through the motor generator unit into the battery. It still will mean, of course, the best combination of car driver will rise to the top. I know there's been some talk that this formula has neutralised some of the more talented drivers. But that said, you still have to understand the tools of your trade and then exploit those to the best. So there's an element of me thinking, okay, I can see why if the high-speed corners are becoming, let's say, not quite as challenging, but that still leaves all the rest of the circuit and then breaking into slow corners, as we all know, there's a huge amount of time.

16:46But if we look back at Silverstone, I mean, going into it, there was a lot of talk about this as well and a lot of concern for what Silverstone might look like, especially from the viewer experience. but also obviously for the drivers in the car and actually in the end it didn't end up being I think as much of a hassle as they expected it to be or as unenjoyable as they expected it to be obviously when you really take a look deeply at the onboards you can tell that in like the maggots beckets complex and coming out of cops you could hear that they were obviously regenning and etc but obviously spa they said they thought would be worse so it's definitely something we need to wait to see what it looks like.

17:23But I think at least the reassurance is that Silverstone wasn't quite as bad as they anticipated. So maybe Spa will surprise us in that way as well. How many onboards will we get through Eau Rouge? Probably not. Probably not that many.

17:38Max Verstappen:Okay, well, coming up in a moment, we're going to discuss who we think the circuit will suit. So stick around for that. And in the meantime, send us your messages with your favorite memories from Spa. If you're not following us on socials, it's at UpToSpeedShow. And if you're not yet subscribe to us on YouTube. Please go and hit that red button right now.

18:00Okay, so Spa this weekend, who do we think it's going to suit? Do we just naturally say Mercedes because obviously they're the team to beat right now. And when we look at Kimi, yes, still the championship leader, but obviously reliability issues in a couple of recent races and that gap getting pulled down. But you know, what Mercedes do well is deployment, straight line speed. Is it just like i don't want to say it's a cakewalk don't want to say it's a slam dunk but are they still the team to beat yeah so the safe money would say mercedes for all the reasons you just mentioned will we've got deployment they've got straight line speed um clearly the car is uh predictable and they haven't really been out of a setup window any of the grand prix's but it does feel that ferrari are genuinely stepping closer and closer so as we know formula one is the upgrade game.

18:49Whose upgrades are the most effective? And when they deploy them, do they really suit that racetrack? So I don't think we can start engraving the trophy yet, but it probably is going to be about Mercedes and Ferrari. Yeah. And as Will also mentioned, they've been having some troubles though, Mercedes, haven't they? I mean, not just Kimi having reliability issues, but George also had two. So that's definitely starting to become a bit of a cause for concern for them. I'm kind of hoping that McLaren will sort of start to close that gap a little bit as well I know they have big upgrades pending but they do have that Mercedes power unit so I'm hoping they slowly are starting to learn more about it how to really exploit it in the best way possible because you know let's face it being a customer they didn't have the same information going into the season as Mercedes did and so they are learning a little bit slower they're slightly behind the curve I want to see them get into that conversation because yes, Ferrari has entered the chat.

19:45Now we need McLaren to follow suit and potentially even Red Bull, who have been here and there. But let's face it, this is a circuit that requires, you know, great top speed. And that has sort of been the Kelly's heel for Ferrari. But it does feel like they are closing that gap in that way as well. And thanks to the ADUO, they will also be making upgrades to their engine. So that hopefully soon won't be a cause for concern for them. Two wins, you know, in the last, two in the last three for Ferrari. It's pretty spectacular, particularly when you look at a circuit like Silverstone, because everybody sort of assumed the Ferrari will naturally lend itself to Austria.

20:21That didn't pan out. And everyone thought Ferrari is going to struggle at Silverstone precisely for the reasons that you mentioned, Naomi. And yet they were absolutely on form in the sprint, in the Grand Prix itself. I don't think we can look past them for Spa.

20:33Max Verstappen:I mean, last year, Lewis had quite a dismal year in Spa and so did Kimi, actually. And I wonder, I know DC, you obviously mentioned you had that crash and you broke your leg and that's slightly different, but it's very different actually. But when you come back to a circuit where you maybe haven't gone so well in the past, like how quickly can you turn that around? Because Kimi last year did not have a good year in Spa. Lewis also started off on the wrong foot. I can't remember exactly how he ended the weekend, but don't think it was his best weekend ever. Do we think Kimi is going to come into this weekend a little bit more concerned?

21:08Max Verstappen:given how his year there last year went? I don't think so. I think the benefit of youth is you don't know what you don't know. And he is just on the crest of a brilliant form book right now. Yes, he's had some reliability issues, but we haven't really seen him make a mistake. Now, he's human, so that will come at a certain point. But I think he'll just be, this track's amazing, this car's amazing. You haven't seen him make any mistakes, do you see? Which one? Which one am I missing? Well, there was a couple on the opening lap in Austria. There was maybe, you're right, probably less than we anticipated, but there have been a few.

21:49There have been a few moments here and there. Yeah, OK. Well, he did run wide there and he was beating himself up when we did the interviews or I did the interviews after the race. But, you know, I would say that's more exploiting the runoff areas that you can on the opening lap rather than a lockup and a spin or something like that. Yeah, I'd go with that. I think the thing with Kimi at the moment is, as you say, DC, youth giving you that advantage of you don't know what you don't know, but also just that supreme confidence that comes with youth. And the two races with mechanical issues that Kimi's had, he's been the fastest guy on track.

22:28And he's been the guy making up positions and fighting to the end. And it's in the second half of the stints that I love watching Kimi the most because while everyone else has kind of settled in or they're nursing their tyres, Kimi is just lap after lap after lap. It's push, push, push. He never stops. He's just relentless. And I love watching him race for that because it's never over for him, which is just a joy to be able to watch someone like that. So yeah, I'm excited to see what he can do there this weekend. Can McLaren find something? Can Red Bull find something? And all of this in the midst of all of this crazy driver, rumour, chat, whatever, which doesn't feel like it's got massive legs, but rumours are rumours.

23:17And there's clearly going to be, I think, a buzz around the place, regardless of what the truth is behind any of that stuff. Well, rumours are rumours, of course. And sometimes those rumours are started by the management of the individual driver, or just to put a bit of doubt in the team they're with if they're trying to renegotiate contracts and uplift and things like that. The reality is, of course, that we will find out when we find out exactly where everyone's going. Meanwhile, there have been some issues for McLaren and Red Bull in their quest to recover from battling for the World Championship until the final round last year.

23:55So I think it's going to be interesting to see how quickly they can get on top of the issues they had. We know Max was particularly disappointed, frustrated, understandably, in Silverstone. But the bottom line, I think, once the red mist has settled down, you go back, you get with your team and you know that failures can happen from time to time. And the only way to work through them is to do that as a team. Yeah, it feels like they do have quite a gap to close, not necessarily across the board because they've been quite inconsistent. But very often, let's not forget, in Austria, they were on the podium.

24:29So it's not all bad at Red Bull, but it's true that it's kind of like sometimes they've got it and sometimes they don't. One thing I think Max will be happy about is coming back home. And I know that I'm annoying because I keep saying that Max is Belgian, but he is.

24:42Max Verstappen:OK, I know that he rocks the Dutch flag, but he is Belgian and my friends at home, I promise you, he is Belgian. But anyway, the Dutch fans do make their way to Spies. And there is a little bit of a similar to what we see in Sun Forward, a lot of what we see at Red Bull Ring. like there's this big fandom around Max at Spa. And I think that that can definitely boost his confidence. It's also a circuit that, as we've said, you know, you need a driver who's really confident, who's confident with what their car can do. And yes, he's maybe a little less confident in what the car can do. And there's been a little bit of unpredictability from that side in the cockpit.

25:16But if it rains, if everything comes together, this is typically the kind of circuit that we see Max make the difference that Max can do. So let's see. Let's see how this weekend goes for him, but I think it'll be a place that he'd be happy to go back to. Naomi, what nationality is Lando Loris?