DC & Mika Hakkinen reunited! Do McLaren's most iconic duo think Max Verstappen should move?

0:02This is a global production. Michael Schumacher said that you were the only driver he feared. Well, you were sometimes difficult, David. Seven years as teammates. It was catastrophic. Your whole face is covered in blood. Oh shit, a couple of months ago I nearly just died. You managed to hit my rear wheel and spin me around, and as I'm spinning around, my hands coming out of the cockpit like that. You know we didn't have any team members.

0:34Up to Speed

0:39It's David Mika, welcome Up to Speed Excellent, excellent Mika, thank you very much I've been excited to get you on the show We have our own show which we can talk about Coming up in September, we can talk about a bit later But one thing that I think I would love to share with the audience Some of our audience are diehard fans of Formula One. They've been around following the sport since before us. And some of them are new. So we can't take for granted the fact that I know you're a two-time world champion. I know that Michael Schumacher said that you were the only driver he feared. But some of our younger audience only know from drive to survive forward.

1:19So I guess the best place to start for us is we sort of fast track into when things started to get interesting in your racing career And you first came up against Michael Schumacher Now many people would think, well I'm going to start talking about Formula 1 But you actually raced against Michael in Formula 3 And one of the most famous races between the two of you in my opinion And is available on YouTube for people to go and have a look at is when you were fighting over the victory at Macau, which is a track in China. It's a Portuguese colony. It's the circuit that Ayrton Senna said was the best circuit in the world.

1:59So, you know, I think we can both agree it's an incredible challenge through the streets of Macau. And there's an image on YouTube where you're coming in the slipstream to overtake Michael. You pull out. As you pull out, he moves over, hits you and puts you into the barrier. And you're out of the race and he goes to win it. So, yeah, I guess that was the first time you had to have a strong conversation with him. It was a huge disappointment, that crash, let's call it this. I mean, the crash is never a good one. But, you know, it was disappointment simply because this... David, tell me, you won that race, did you?

2:39Yeah, thankfully you and Michael weren't in the year that I was racing, so I don't know if anybody crashed into. Yeah, but anyway, so it was catastrophic. And why it was catastrophic? Because it's more or less the last race end of the year. It's the final of the, where all the best F3 drivers are joining to this mega race. And this racetrack is probably one of the most challenging racetracks in the world. So I was going there with a very huge confidence that we were going to kick some butt. It was an incredible weekend. You know, everything went perfectly fine until the last lap.

3:29Michael is leading and only what I had to do is to kindly follow him and finish the race. That's when I become overall winner of that race weekend. and there was a fast right-hand corner just after the finish line when you're starting your final lap and Michael made a very fast corner, you know, it's like 230 kilometers per hour and with the F3 car that speed through that corner was very challenging, particularly those years because the cars were not so developed. Anyway, Michael made a little mistake, little mistake and of course because F3 car you don't have so much power so it didn't accelerate anymore and I had a huge momentum going on through that corner so I was catching him so so fast that I thought if I I'll back off, I can lose my momentum.

4:30I can lose the rhythm for that lap. And what can happen then, that means that Michael is able to pull away enough, that way he would become a winner of that race. So I thought, okay, I'm going to overtake him. I'm going to overtake him. And it would be easy to overtake him, you know. But you know, just in a moment when I'm turning the steering and planning to overtake him, I saw him turning his head a little bit, looking in the mirror, and he just moved a tiny bit in front of me and he touched my front wing and I flew in the air, crashed the wall, and you know what? It was really tough after the race.

5:16Not because of my, you know, disappointment of myself. Why did I try to overtook what Michael did? All this is already history. But what was the painful part was that because the team, they wouldn't make a lot of money. Yeah. Surprise money, I forgot. It was a big prize money from that race. You know, and of course, of course, this car that drove, It was more or less the last race of the year. So they probably already sold that car. But because I crashed it on a wall, it went in pieces. They lose the car, they lose the prize money.

6:02But who to play? You know, this is one of these difficulties. I think like, why did I try to overtake? You just stay behind. And then vice versa. Why did Michael move? You have many different things which you can think afterwards. But there are painful learning things, what you do in motor racing. Very hard indeed. It's all part of the journey. So must go on. So must go on. No, no. Well, look, you gave us one of the early insights to the battle that was going to be following once you got to Formula One. So that led you into Formula One. and I was a couple of years behind you in that progression.

6:42So you'd already established yourself in Formula One before we became teammates. You joined Formula One just for those who are not aware with a team called Lotus, which I'm not sure if they morphed into anything after that. I think the team is now completely gone because in Formula One, there's been so many different iterations of what teams are called. But we first came across each other when I was at Williams, 94, 95, and we actually had our first coming together in Hockenheim where we touched into the first corner. It spun you into the barrier. And when we went to the stewards afterwards, I thought the best form of defence is attack.

7:21So I just said, this guy's crazy. I thought he was trying to take me off. The truth is, I think you were slightly ahead. And as you tried to come and take the line, my front wheel touched your rear wheel and spun you off into the barrier. And I think they actually, did they give you a one race ban or something? Did you miss a Grand Prix because of that? I missed at least one Grand Prix, yeah. Is it too late to say sorry? But you know what, David? Honestly, the whole situation was not correct. Because, again, now you have cameras everywhere, every corner and every angle and all these. You have cameras in every car and you can see every situation what's happening.

8:07For our case, I got what they call it like sandwiched. So what I tried to say, it wasn't my fault.

8:20Exactly. Exactly. It was one of those racing incidents. So, right. Let's jump ahead. Let's jump ahead, actually. No, let's. Yeah, jump ahead to the end of that year. We have to touch on your comeback because before the comeback came the crash in Adelaide in 95. And I'd already signed to be your teammate in 96. So I'm merely going about finishing off my year with Williams. But on the Saturday in qualifying, you have a puncture in your McLaren. And this puncture means you spin on a very high speed corner. you get launched over a high kerb, which means, of course, the car doesn't slow down. It landed and went straight into a tyre barrier with a concrete wall behind it.

9:06And again, there's images on YouTube, massive rotation of your head because we didn't have the head and neck protection. We didn't have the halo. We didn't have the hands. And this fractured your skull. And there's an image of you getting out of the car, being helped by the medical staff, and your whole face is covered in blood. Yeah, when I was sideways and when I hit that huge curve in the exit and the car launched in the air, that moment I realized this is going to be a big one. You know, the car didn't slow down at all. And I knew the barrier was not so far away. It was so high speed. And then the car started spinning in the air.

9:51so it was challenging to of course to understand when I'm gonna hit the wall because normally when you hit the wall you hold the steering hard as you can and you put your muscles hardest you know and I didn't see that so when it hit the wall of course it's a very quick moment when it happens and the 10 cars stopped and And I do, understanding that this was a big one. But the problem was that when I tried to move, I tried to move my hands or tried to move my legs, no chance. And I said, oh, shit. And I said to my mind, just now, when the guy came in front of me, I said, just now relax. Just don't do anything.

10:45Try to stay calm and still. you know and that that was the thing and then to then somebody turn off the lights you know yeah that's when you fall unconscious and that's incredible and then i guess you don't know anything the next thing you're waking up in hospital but they did not keep you in an induced coma for a period of time so how long were you sleep for? One night or something. I'm not sure anymore, but yeah, it was incredible when you wake up because you're happy you're waking up. You're like, wow, and you can move your hands and you can move your legs. So that's already half a victory, you know.

11:33And of course, you're in such a heavy medication, all the tubes there, this and that. I don't want to go into details with that. You know? I guess you have to pee somehow so they can pipe up your pee pee.

11:52So you can see when I'm talking about this subject. I'm smiling a lot, I'm laughing a lot, and I'm a little bit joking a lot because I'm happy to be here today. And, you know, it's part of your journey of your life, what happens. We don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. So when you survive out of something like that, you can be happy about it. You can laugh about it. You know, that moment, of course, I did not. and it was tough but you know the waking up in a in a in a hospital bed and and and seeing there you know they i think the first people who i saw actually uh who came to see me was from dennis and lisa dennis that time uh and and the first thing what i saw was so lisa dennis front of me but of Of course, I was so much under the medication that way.

12:54I thought I was in heaven, you know, because she has a very blonde hair and, you know, tall American and this and that. And, you know, so I thought, God, I'm in heaven. You know, this is amazing. And then I looked a little bit on the left and then there was Ron Dennis standing there. So I thought, you know, this is not the heaven. The reality came back to you. Absolutely brilliant. But unbelievably, a couple of months later, having spent probably several weeks in Australia, you made the decision to come back and drive a car again. Now, was that because you just didn't want me to win the World Championship or was it because you wanted to come back and get in the car?

13:38Take us through that incredible, incredible journey. I feel that I think this decision moment is one of the most challenging because you could easily, you know, you easily could say that way, okay, that's, you know, let's move the life different direction and let's forget the motor racing, but comes to decision time. and it you have to make this decision alone you know and and and you have to go through so many different things in your life that way what do you want from your life uh what is the future of your life and if you have uh done certain sports such many years and and you feel inside that way now I'm good racing driver now I can now I can do it the problem is it's not a problem but the but the questions are coming to your head all the time that way oh shit couple months ago I nearly just died so do you want to go back to this same business

14:55and of course I decided to go back I decided to go testing and of course I loved driving and and it is a passion you it is such a huge passion motor racing and driving the car controlling this incredible formula one car you know in a very high speed uh well when everything works and and and doing a great teamwork with the mechanics with the engineers. So I decided to go back and I don't know, is it something to do with your ego, you know, you want to prove that way, yes, I can do it. Anyway, yeah, I made the decision to come back and but it wasn't the easy one, you know. So you had to work in your mindset, you know, when you sit in a car after the accident, you know, you have to put your mind set not to think about the fear of crash.

16:02You know it will happen again, you know it will crash again, but not to be afraid of that crash. Yeah, I think at that era, as I say, there was less protection in the cars than they have nowadays. But yeah, we know as true as you get in a race car you're going to end up crashing at some point. God there's so much. Do we get into you and I crashing into each other which happened a couple of times do we get into the team orders which was for both of us we were reliving that last year with Lando and Oscar. You know again everyone thinks that these scenarios are happening for the first time. David you know we didn't have any team orders you know

16:51We can agree to disagree

16:58Let's start with running into each other first Before we get into team orders 96, Estoril You managed to hit my rear wheel And spin me around And as I'm spinning around My hands coming out of the car David, I was already next to you I was already

17:19Look online Look online and we'll talk about that one after One that does get played in Which is very clear It was my fault Was Austria You were on pole, I was second Going up the hill into the second corner I think I'm going to launch you on the brakes And then you brake later than I expected And then the momentum just meant I couldn't slow down anymore And spun you around thankfully you managed to rejoin and get some points but that was particularly a bad day because Adrian Newey was our designer at that time he's now the designer as we know in team principal at Aston Martin and I remember afterwards he was just completely silent as you were obviously giving your opinion as to how this is unacceptable for teammates to crash into each other so we've been through a range of emotions together we have indeed you know but uh but uh i it's part of this motor racing is part of the p teammates it's it's it's absolutely normal and and uh but some reason you know we both we knew that there is a future you know and there is a future that we can succeed together uh we can do good stuff for the team so it's no point to carry that anger you know for the two three months in your head let's let's sort it out and let's move on and let's go back to racing and and yes we got some help from the management of the team of course that way let's do it like this let's do it like this uh but i i think i think it was okay and i like you mentioned that when you touched me on little bit.

19:04So, you know, you didn't break my car, you didn't break your car, so we were able to continue, you know. Yeah, we continue on. Actually, we see, if you look at the modern drivers, I guess the closest example to us as teammates could be what we saw with Lando and Oscar, unless you see it differently. There was a few times last year where they almost touched, there was a few times where the team were trying to manage the driver's expectations. So what do you see out there on track that would replicate our time? Is it the McLaren guys or do you see other teammates? Well, first of all, you know, I rate Lando and Oscar extremely talented racing drivers, very professional racing drivers, not too emotional racing drivers.

19:57my opinion. So that is good to operate with the drivers like that because they're very consistent. They're very consistent indeed. They've been only a few years together in a team and Oskar is still not so experienced, in my opinion. So it requires time. So coming up, we're going to hear more from Mika. You can tell us what you think at Up To Speed Show. And remember, you can subscribe on YouTube.

20:36The current crop of drivers and the current set of regulations, I get asked quite often whether I miss racing and whether I would like to drive this generation of car. And I suspect my answer is similar to yours in that I don't miss racing because I'm very happy with the era that I got to race and I'm very happy with the cars that I got to race. And I think that we've ended up having a good, let's say, championship unfolding despite the difficulty of this new set of regulations in Melbourne. But putting the fact that we've had five winners, five different winners in the last five races to one side, I'm not sure I would really want the technical challenge of driving this type of engine what's your point of view on it?

21:26Well, it's crazy you know I feel these cars must be better cars than what we had they must be better you know they must be much more stable on the braking the torque of the engine must be much more linear coming out of the corners downshift, the upshifts, the braking performance, everything must be better. And I found it fascinating that the technology has gone so much forward that you can develop the car in simulators, you can drive the simulators, whatever adjustments you do in gearboxes or whatever balance of the car you can implement that to the real world in a real car. So those things are fascinating and you know I think the power of the engine is also massive.

22:28I think we had probably 800-900 horsepower now they have definitely minimum 1000. I think the only thing what I would not like, you know, is the weight of the car. I think that would be the only negative. We have 600, 700 kilos, the weight of the racing car. Now they are still 800, 900 kilos. So I think that would be the negative thing when you're in a corner and you like to play with the steering a little bit and to balance the car. I think that would be the only negative thing. But otherwise, I think it would be exciting to try them. Yeah, I think the weight of the cars, as you say, is a big challenge for them all.

23:14There's no question. We're in this sort of midsummer break now in the silly season of which drivers are going to which teams. Rumours that keep reappearing that Max might be interested in McLaren. As someone that, you know, you're still very much a McLaren person, how would you, if you were team principal, would you, if you could, put Max alongside Lando? Or is your view having two guys that are, you know, absolutely champions, let's say they've achieved their goal, would that just lead to all sorts of complications? It's very interesting. It's not only Macs out there, of course. There's many other drivers.

24:00But what I have seen how the McLaurin operates, they want to really look at the overall team package all the time. because that's the only way to achieve the success is to build incredible team spirit power inside.

24:26And you try to sometimes, my opinion, I would, if you would ask me what I would do, I would like to minimize that risk. That way you lose this kind of team spirit. you know if the team has two great drivers uh why to rock the boat uh and and uh and of course mclaren having a world champion uh and we were look we were the longest teammates that's in formula one we were the longest teammates and that indicates that indicates that way if there's a good harmony inside in a team, why to have there somebody else? And, well, you were sometimes difficult, David, you know, but, you know, I was able to handle it, you know.

25:18Yeah, we had our good days, our bad days, but yeah, seven years as teammates. And then that actually brings me to the point that you, thankfully for me, decided to retire quite early. I think you were 32. And I'm thinking, oh, thank God for that. You know, he's going to retire and I can now take ownership of this team. But as you go off, then in comes Kimi Raikkonen, who went on to win a world championship with Ferrari. But I lost one fast fin and gained another fast fin. So I had nine years of Finnish teammates. You must feel sorry for me. Yeah. I mean, David, nine years with Finnish teammates.

25:57so you must speak some Finnish language already Kippes what is that? is that cheers or is that thank you?

26:11only related to drinking because as you know the Finns don't say a lot which is why the Finnish joke of the two Finns sitting at a bar and one Finn says to the other how was your day? and the other one looks back and goes are you here to drink or are you here to talk?

26:30Exactly. No, but I tell you, you had many great teammates in your career, but the nine years with the Finns, I can imagine, it's a long time, David. Yeah, well, I learned a lot. I wanted to enter Formula One to compete against the best and to find out how good I could be. So some proud moments for me were winning Grand Prix's when I had you beside me on the podium and Michael Schumacher because, you know, you two guys were winning nine titles during the 15 seasons I was in Formula One. so that was a feeling of a job well done when those situations happened yeah I think there's a generation of people watching Formula 1 today thinking that this is the biggest sport in the world but the reality is other than America Formula 1 was always a huge sport so we've been very lucky to be involved in a global business so with no disrespect to American football or baseball which of course have international fans, but they historically never left one continent.

27:38We've had a hell of a journey of life, a hell of an education of life to travel around the world and go racing. Yeah, definitely. What a beautiful, yeah, it won't happen unless you are active and you are going for it and you are flat out. Otherwise it won't happen. I found it very fascinating also to learn, to understand how all this is happening. It's very interesting. We've been in Formula One when it's been low and it's going better again and low and this. Now, like you mentioned, Formula One is booming. And Formula One tried to go to USA many, many times to activate that market, but it never it never didn't it didn't never uh go flat out you know but now now of course and we know many reasons why it is so popular and I'm sure you are and many people are very happy that with the easy new generation of of fans following Formula One and understanding what's happening in behind the curtains you know not only when the cars are going around the track what's really the people what how they think what they think is important how they treat other people uh under pressure you know uh and this this is the this is the most challenging because uh you know david you me when we've been working with engineers and and uh finding solutions and and being criticized by people, why this and that and this.

29:13How to handle the pressure. And people are, people changes under the pressure, you know. And that's fascinating to see which people can stay calm and collective in different situations. And that Formula One, my opinion, has brought to also for fans to see that those different personalities and characters. Yeah. No, it's a hell of a journey. Nate, that's for sure. You know one thing as I'm sitting here, Miku, sort of reflecting on our time together, I've never asked you what you felt was your best ever race. Now, you've heard me when we do our tour together, our speaking tour, talk about Magna Cure 2000, the one where I had to battle to overtake Barrichello and the Ferrari and then catch Schumacher who weaved around a little bit and then eventually I overtook him and won the race.