Did George Russell slam Verstappen exit route shut in Austria?

0:02This is a global production.

0:04Will Buxton:Statement win for George Russell. If we just recap on the Lewis-Max battle. Did Max pit at the wrong time? We're witnessing a slightly off-form Charles Leclerc. They looked absolute ****. I know you have a crystal ball. He's never going to agree to that. Ever.

0:26Will Buxton:Up to speed.

0:32Will Buxton:It's Will. It's David. Welcome to Up to Speed. And it's a big week. Silverstone week. It feels like this is what centres Grand Prix racing. Do you know what? It kind of does, doesn't it? It's like everything is sort of the lead up to Silverstone. And then once Silverstone's done, you're kind of on that downward slope towards the end of the season. And it all goes really quick. It does. And clearly towards the end of the season brings joy and happiness to some. Yes. But it also is that point where if it hasn't quite worked out on the journey to Silverstone, teams start turning off the tap of development, start looking to the following year.

1:09All of that sort of good stuff where I suspect for Aston Martin, that happened straight away after Melbourne.

1:17Will Buxton:Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. They've still got their big upgrade to come. We've got, I guess you could call it a big upgrade this week, two interviews to come your way. One with Arvid Lindblad, one with Zac Brown. They'll be coming later this week, so make sure you're subscribed, wherever you're watching, listening, and then you'll get your notification as soon as they pop up. It was a fascinating weekend at the Red Bull ring. Most importantly, statement win for George Russell. Only a second of the year, can you believe it? I felt he came into the season with so much kind of promise, so much potential, then Kimi went on that run, and it completely sort of dislodged itself in my head that he hadn't won more than one Grand Prix coming into Austria.

1:59Yeah, I guess with the Mercedes machine being so successful and it has been a race since Kimi previously won, you know, after the euphoria of Lewis winning in Barcelona, then, yeah, it is surprising he's not had more success. And he's definitely had some pretty bad run of luck as well. He's been unfortunate. But he ticked all the boxes at the weekend. He knew the rules. I guess we're going to talk qualifying. We will get onto that. Yeah, very much so. So he knew the rules. It looked like in the Grand Prix, a bit like in Barcelona, that he was hot out of the traps and then fading towards the end of the tyre runs.

2:36Yeah. But luckily for him, an out of position, Kimi Antonelli, who was beating himself up because he was still angry at the start, apparently, and that's why he ran wide at Turn 1 and that's why he ran wide at Turn 3. And crucially, that put him back a few seconds that you had to then find later in the race. and George did enough so well-deserved victory brings that championship battle he's now back into second 40 points behind sounds like a lot but it's not not at this stage of the season no and also we know Mercedes have been a little bit questionable on the reliability and then we had Carlos Sainz and the Williams which has a Mercedes engine in the back basically lunch itself on the start finish right you know how our commentary boxes look down across the circuit over to the pit lane which is actually a brilliant place to watch.

3:24But as they wheeled that car through into the pit lane, there was a big puppy puddle of oil, which says that's not an electronic failure.

3:33Will Buxton:That is a mechanical failure. Another one. We had a great battle between two multiple world champions, Max, Lewis. I loved it. Just great fun. Pretty fair between the two of them. Great side-by-side wheel-to-wheel action. at multiple sort of junctures during the race. Loved that. Really, really enjoyed it. Well, you've seen Lewis do all of that good stuff through his F2 journey as well. Because you were there working with the F2 guys. We didn't really get to see much of Max until he arrived in Formula One because, what was it, Euro Formula 3 or German Formula 3? One year of F3. And then straight into...

4:12And that, just as a reminder to our listeners, he was basically, had a decision. He could go with Mercedes or he could go with Red Bull. And Red Bull having two teams, Toro Rosso was called at that time, allowed him to become a drop-piece driver. They said, we'll drop you straight in. Yeah. And Mercedes weren't prepared to do that. So that journey began with Red Bull, which has led to four world championships. And I think that's part of the reason why Toto, having missed out on that opportunity, realising that Kimi is a great talent, they sort of rushed him through the lower formulas and put him straight into the Grand Prix car with the belief that if he's good enough, you know to use a puppy analogy once again he'll pee on the carpet occasionally in the first season

4:53Will Buxton:and he'll come good he's not house trained yeah which if you think a year ago in Austria he t-boned max at turn three on the first lap and then you look where he is now he's come off the back of a flawless season you know that running wide at turn one and turn three he only did it because he could if that was at Monaco and there was metal barriers he would never have gone there so you know i just see that as i'm exploring the opportunities but otherwise the guy's been phenomenal i just i loved watching lewis and max it took me back to 21 and the battles they had then but you know less on the line now and so a little bit more measured a little less pushing each other um but it kind of it reminded me again of those those quiet years from 22 through to 25 where Lewis wasn't happy in the car.

5:42Will Buxton:And you think of the battles that we had in 21, what could have been 22, 23, 24, if he'd had the comfort level with the car of watching those two fight. You know, two, we now know, great champions, great multiple champions, guys who define their generations. Lewis here's Max here's seeing those two, you know, wheel to wheel. It's just, it's just marvellous. And I think because they probably - We're incredibly lucky to have that, aren't we? Hugely, you know, Lewis may find himself in a championship battle this year. We'll get on to the difficulties that Ferrari had in Austria this week. But just watching two guys who really don't have much to lose at the moment, who could just take that fight to each other, I thought that was a hell of a lot of fun.

6:25Will Buxton:But of course, through it all, George Russell coming through, as we were saying, for the win. It was controlled. It was composed. It was everything that I think he needed it to be. It was no stress. I was saying no stress. Max was catching him on two stints. But for George, you know, what's that going to do, do we think, for him? Just in terms of kind of reigniting a championship charge, letting him know, you know, hey, I can win races. I do win races. That's what I do. Yeah, interesting you say that as if you're sort of putting yourself inside George's skin. We've been around this game for a long time and we can tell in the eyes of a driver whether he's confident, whether he's defensive, whether he's relieved.

7:15And there was a certain amount of relief when we spoke to George after the race. And he was actually going through that process of going, you know, this is important to show that I can still do this. It was almost like he was doing a sort of self-help session whilst in the interview going, George, you can still do it. Amazing. Which, you know, having been there and had highs and lows in my career, you do go through those moments of doubt. Why is my teammate able to do that and I'm not able to do that? And then you suddenly find yourself back in form and you're going, well, why is he not keeping up?

7:46He goes the other way as well. So it sets us up beautifully for what is coming in a few days time.

7:51Will Buxton:There will be question marks, though, because we saw it in Barcelona when Kimi was catching him and ultimately passed him before his own DNF. Here, those two last stints, Max was catching him. Was that Max, do we think, being able to better utilise the tyres or is it a George issue that actually he's overworking them and then the second half of the stint, his times are tailing off? Yeah, I think that is a good question you raise, of which Barcelona was the first really hot race that we had. and clearly he was not able to manage the tyres or the stint for whatever reason, whether that was set up of his particular car or the way he drives.

8:30At Austria there was slight indication certainly in the first stint there was a much bigger indication in the second stint or the final stint where Kimi was just much quicker. He was just much quicker than anyone at that point so had he been at the front, it would have been him disappearing off so that's going to be worrying don't want to take anything away from the victory from George because he earned it especially on the Saturday.

8:54Will Buxton:Okay, so let's look at Saturday because it didn't come without its controversies. Obviously, the yellow came out for Max's crash. George was deemed to have lifted enough under a yellow flag. That yellow then became a double-waved yellow and once it's a double-waved yellow, all qualifying attempts are nullified. You can't improve at all under a double-waved yellow. But George was cognizant to the fact it was a single yellow. His interviews afterwards were like, well, you can see the diagonal flipping, like that's what it means. There's that awareness to George, isn't there? Like he knows the rules inside out.

9:29Will Buxton:And to have that awareness at that speed on a full maximum commitment push lap that he needed to take the pole from the two Ferraris, just brilliant awareness. It was. And it'd be worrying this far into his career if he didn't know every rule and regulation. And it's a reminder of Vettel when he was in his career winning world championships. He was overtaking people in the pit lane and things like that, in the area where he knew it was allowed. He just knew the rules and exploited the rules. And the greats, I think, do that. So that puts George in that great awareness category. The big question, of course, was when you have a car that far embedded in the tyres at a high-speed corner, when would it ever not be a double yellow?

10:15And I think it took about 15 seconds between the accident, Kimi going through and lifting more because I guess he felt he was doing the right thing. Maybe he wasn't quite sure. Did I see a double yellow? The drivers will have in their cockpit a blue light, a yellow light, a red light. But as I sit here, I don't believe it kind of flashes to tell them it's a double yellow. I may be wrong, but let me let me do some research on that after the show. but George I think it was a case of if he got a penalty then it just sort of compounds what's been a difficult season if he didn't he gets poor position and he didn't he didn't get penalised and he got poor position

10:58Will Buxton:he did ultimately what's right per the regulations it showed he'd lifted the track evolution was such that even with the lift he still improved and was enough to take him top there's a moral question though that extends beyond did he do the right thing which is are the rules around yellow flags in a qualifying session are they fit for purpose because you've got a driver who's stuffed it and is as you said in the barrier at one of the fastest points of the track at what point is it okay to literally just like show you've lifted and scream on through yeah if you then screw up in the in the same way and i hate to bring it up but you know i roll back to we're going back over a decade But I roll back to Jules Bianchi.

11:42Will Buxton:You know, Jules accident happened under yellow because he was pushing to make up the Delta time under yellow, which was allowed at the time because virtual safety car didn't exist back then. And and and we were robbed of a great talent who was doing what was allowable within the regulations. But is that right? Should should that be allowable under the regulations? Because the first thing you're taught when you go to your local kart track, right? The first time you ever sit in a go-kart and you get the video with Martin Brundle telling you the rules and the regulations of the kart track. You see a yellow, back off, right?

12:21Will Buxton:And now it's like if it's a double-waved yellow, then you have to slow and be prepared to stop. But you're always taught from when you're a kid, you see a yellow, back out. Yeah. And is a simple lift and back on, is it enough? And I don't know if I have an answer for that. Like it's a moral, far deeper consideration. The race drivers, the competitive animals, they are. Someone else's failure is your opportunity. So no one wants to see someone get hurt. But if somebody blows up or somebody crashes out, then that's advantage for you. And it's just the way of the world. and if, maybe not the way of the world, but like in boxing, you're not punching them in the face just to score points.

13:05You're punching them in the face to put them down. And so there's a sort of gladiatorial element of that in the race car. What George absolutely wouldn't know is who'd gone off, unless he'd been told on the radio, and whether they were stuck in the gravel or they'd hit the barrier. We've got the benefit of seeing it all. That corner, as you know, the approach is slightly over our brow and you don't see the apex of the corner until you arrive at the corner. So he had no idea who was off, where they were. If it's a single yellow, that would suggest that it could be a minor incident. Double yellow tells you that's it, the lap's off.

13:39So it really comes back to the race director. I think when they look at that again, and life's about learnings, they will not wait 15 seconds. If a car goes into a tyre barrier at high speed, it's not going anywhere.

13:54Will Buxton:In a blind part of the track as well. Because he could have been, And if it's a yellow and you come over that brow, they might be slow on track. They might be, you know, two wheels in the gravel, two wheels still on the curb. And you fly through there and it's under a single yellow. I don't know. It's an impossible thing to answer. I'm just... I think, no, I think they will change it for the future. Because there's enough evidence to suggest that it was in such a grey area that it benefited some. And it was disadvantaging to others. Do you think they'd ever get to the extent of sort of Americanizing it and just going as soon as anyone goes off during qualifying, full course yellow, nobody improves?

14:34Will Buxton:Because then that tells everybody, it's done, back out, we're done. Arguably, that would be the fairest thing. But there'll be certainly circumstances, given that we race, you know, American football's in a football stadium. Like we go to Spa, it's, you know, square kilometers of racetrack. It would seem a bit unfair. If someone crashes at Eau Rouge, is it fair to penalise somebody who's already down at Blanchiment? Yeah, exactly. So I think the answer to that would be no. Yeah, that's fair. But he took advantage of it. Absolutely the right thing within the regulations. Held his nerve, knew the rules, and then delivered a brilliant win from pole position.

15:13Will Buxton:As you said, 40 points the gap at the top. Absolutely mega. Not the weekend for Ferrari. After a brilliant victory, brilliant strategy-led victory at Barcelona. all fell apart for them in Austria. It's fascinating because we've talked all season about how good the Ferraris are on low-speed corners. All weekend, but particularly in the race, they looked absolute dog turd coming out of three. Like out of three, they had nothing. Yeah, struggling for that. There's some elevation change there. Some. Yeah. You rise up. Dude, it's like vertical into downhill. So I think possibly that was giving them some issues.

15:56It's a really tricky corner turn three to power off because of the fact that the car just doesn't sit flat as you rise up over through the apex. Different, the compound of tyres had shifted. So we always have the soft, medium and hard by name, but they're different physical compounds track to track. What you would say is track temperature was very similar to Barcelona, but maybe that tyre tyres didn't really work for him Lewis has said that it's never really been a great circuit for him which is amazing for the guy that's redefined the history books and victories and equaled the championships and I know that's another debate that will forever rage on For as long as Max has been racing though it's a bogey track for everybody because Max has just been so good He's been so strong yeah absolutely but yeah Ferrari a little bit on but let's before we got to the race suddenly in qualifying it looked like could it really attract It's been a one-two.

16:51Yeah, the track ramped up right at the end. But what we now know, of course, is they would have been beaten in the Grand Prix when the longevity on the tyres just wasn't there.

17:00Will Buxton:So the strategy, that was out of necessity, right? It wasn't a, we're trying to do something smart here and beat everybody. It was literally, our tyres are going to drop off a cliff. Yeah, and you see that Lewis was sort of driving that from the cockpit. He said in his interview afterwards, the team wanted to do two. I was like, no, we need to do three. And that was the best option for him. Charles was maybe a little bit more on the fence on that. And then it put him into a sort of no man's land. I think actually for me, the story of Ferrari, still overall it's positive because they're back in a sort of competitive space.

17:34But I think the big question mark there now, and we just have to deal with the data and the facts is, we're witnessing a slightly off form Charles Leclerc, probably for the first time in his career. Yeah, that's fair. He's always been a little bit, you know, a crash comes in qualifying from nowhere because he's pushing so hard. But otherwise, he's just been a sort of consistently fast driver. I don't recall him being in this sort of form before.

17:59Will Buxton:No, nor me. Nor me. And look, we talk about, you know, Lewis having those years where it fell off for him. Is this generation of car just not a Charles Leclerc type car? Or is it something simpler than that? Well, because it's not the Charles. Yeah. And he's got a new contract in his pocket, right? There's no pressure there. Oh, he's got every reason to be happy, happy, happy. But I am reluctant to endorse that some cars don't suit some drivers at the great level. What I've witnessed through my time watching Formula 1 and then being involved as a driver in Formula 1 and then in retirement, but still working in Formula 1, is that the quick guys somehow find a way to drive that car.

18:44We've had so many different regulations over there.

18:46Will Buxton:What do we put Lewis 22 to 25 down to, right? Because he didn't forget how to drive overnight. Fatigue, disappointment after 21. So was it that much of a gut punch? Did it kick the crap out of him that hard that it was three, four years of... Potentially, yeah. And also, he's been around for a long time. I can only speak for myself, who doesn't deserve to tie the shoelaces of Lewis Hamilton in terms of talent. But I did 15 seasons and I was tired. I didn't fall out of love with Formula One I was just tired I was mentally and physically because I put everything into it that's why I'm amazed that Lewis and Fernando turn up drive the cars the way they do still do the same media pen still do the same marketing events they're essentially answering the same question they've been doing for 20 odd years in a slightly different way oddly enough it's the people asking the questions that get tired quicker and quit and so you've got the new people coming in asking the same stuff they've been asked for for so long.

19:47So it's amazing that they've got that sort of resilience. I think, actually, I'm not a big cricket follower, but Ben Stokes apparently announced his retirement from international mid-match.

19:58Will Buxton:Like Michael, the announcement came out in Monza in 2006. Yeah, mid-Grand Prix. Yeah, mid-Grand Prix. Which confused everybody. I think it confused Michael. I don't think he knew he was retiring until he was told after the race, to be fair to him. Yeah, mad that, isn't it? Yeah, but anyway, Charles. Charles. Yeah, it's a weird one. It's a really weird one. You know what also was weird? When I was doing the top three interviews, the changes around sometimes you're just doing one individual driver at a time and you deal with them and they wander off. This particular one, it was three drivers all lined up and they're given a nice little circle and they're encouraged to stand in front of that circle and I'm encouraged to keep them in front of that circle.

20:43And I think midway through the first part with George, Kimi kind of wandered off to do something, wandered back. I'm not sure if that was in shot, but I'm there watching that and trying to listen to George's answer so I can pick up on a relevant second. And then go through the next phase of questioning and then come to George for the final question. And at that point, Max and Kimi just wandered off. It was like they decided, well, we've heard enough.

21:08Will Buxton:Yeah, that's it. Done. Done. We haven't really talked about Kimi. Brings home another podium. Bit wild in the opening laps. And obviously he got that post-race penalty in Barcelona for running off track a few too many times. Ran off track a few too many times in the opening laps. Without that, if he'd kept it within the lines, if he hadn't have left himself open to get him past, does his race start to look very different? Given the pace he showed at the end, do you think he would have won? Yeah, absolutely. 100%. He was the fastest car over the Grand Prix distance. Interesting. And if you take out those mistakes, that would have put him in front.