Did Kimi Antonelli just become a problem for George Russell?

0:01This is a Global Player Original Podcast.

0:30You know, race drivers are light bulbs, they get screwed in, they shine bright and they get taken out. And in the same way a team can do that to a driver, a driver can do it to a team.

0:50Lewis Hamilton:Well, everybody, welcome back to another episode of Up to Speed. Unfortunately, Will is not with us. He's been partying at the Oscars. No, I think he wishes that that's what he was doing. He's been taking on IndyCar duties. But we have to make a quick mention for the fact that the F1 movie did win Best Sound. So congratulations to them. Yeah, actually, I flew back on the same plane as Stefano. And he was on one side of the aircraft, I'm on the other side. And we're getting ready to come into land after I don't know how many hours it is to get back from Shanghai. And Stefano Domenicali, who's the CEO of Formula One, shouts over, DC, DC, we won an Oscar.

1:26And I'm thinking, we? I won an Oscar. And I was like, ah, yeah, Formula One did. And then we found out it's for the soundtrack.

1:34Kimi Antonelli:No, but I think still, like, an Oscar is an Oscar. Oh, yeah, I'm claiming it. I'm surprised he wasn't there. He just couldn't physically get from Shanghai. I don't think, you know, if anyone could have done it, then Lewis would have tried to do that. But it's just physically on the opposite ends of the world. How was Shanghai? I mean, it looked incredible. It broke records, left, right and centre, on and off the track. Yeah, look, it's amazing to see the growth in the sport. I remember when we first went there in 2004, all the teams were going, right, cha-ching, we're going to go to China, they're going to love Formula One and all the sponsors are going to be knocking on the door.

2:08Nothing happened. It really was, you know, China taught us that they've got their own sports, they've got their own followings, they've got so much of their own thing going on. So it's taken a long time to build a fan base. But I'll tell you one thing, the fan base we have now and the paddock was packed, the hotels. You'd think there was a rock band inside the hotels with barriers out there and all ages screaming, trying to get a signature from a driver. But they not only know all the drivers, they know the engineers, they know the team principals, they know even some of the old guys like me. They are a really informed group of fans.

2:43Kimi Antonelli:How many photos are you taking? Lots and lots. You're loving it. Not really.

2:49Lewis Hamilton:I was going to say, I mean, if there's a rock star they're looking for, it's probably you, DC. But tell us, what did you make of the atmosphere out there? And of course, big, big news coming out this weekend with Bahrain and Saudi being cancelled. I mean, it was kind of inevitable. We'd been waiting for that news to come out. Unfortunate, but also very much necessary. So what was the feeling in the camp? Yeah, look, I think that everyone within the sports was waiting for the official announcement, but understanding that just with the uncertainty in that area, we can't be going there, which is such a shame, you know, for places like Bahrain especially, you know, they've been a backbone of Formula One and the Middle East, and we've had wonderful welcomes there over the time, but such is the world we live in, and what Formula One does brilliantly is adapt and move on, so we will do that without those two Grand Prix's currently on the calendar, and I think, actually, there'll be some of the teams who will be going, that gives us time to catch our breath, try and get on top of things.

3:47Think Aston Martin, think McLaren, the reliability issues they've had. Williams, you know, there's a lot of teams out there that are struggling with spare parts, even at this early point of the year.

3:57Lewis Hamilton:Well, we're definitely going to be getting into all of that and what it means and what it changes for Formula One, given the fact that we now have a five-week break before the next race after Japan. So we're going to discuss that all on our Thursday episode. So make sure you come back and join us to hear all that we've got to say about that. In the meantime, if you didn't watch the Shanghai race, well, well, well, what a race. Kimi Antonelli winning his first ever Formula One race and Lewis Hamilton securing his first ever podium for Ferrari. Big weekend.

4:25Kimi Antonelli:Well, I think we need to start with one thing and you can tell I'm dressed head to toe for it. I have not been shy in saying that Kimi is one of my favorite current F1 drivers on and off the track. I've had the pleasure to work with him many times now and he is genuinely one of the kindest athletes I've ever worked with. actually human beings I've ever worked with. I touched on it in a previous episode about how his team have a bit of a nightmare with him in a very nice way because he always wants to stop for people. He always wants to say hello. He always wants to take that extra photo. And I shed a tear.

4:58Kimi Antonelli:I shed a tear. Your interview was brilliant. I thought your emotional pauses were great. And you got us all crying.

5:05Lewis Hamilton:Yeah, DC, you were the first to speak to him. I mean, what a special moment. How did it feel on the ground? Yeah, it did feel, you know, as an older, I was going to say a gentleman, but some people might question that, as an older man, I could feel for him as a young racer. You know, he's only a couple of years older than my son. So I'm looking in my eyes at a boy. Of course, he's a man, but he's a boy man in my eyes. And for him to get away at the beginning of the chat, absolutely fine. And then I think he caught his father's eye in the sort of, you know, behind the barriers. And I think that's what triggered the tears.

5:40And, you know, as you know, when we're doing television, I'm getting someone in my ear saying move on to George. But it felt to me that that would have lost that moment. It was a beautiful moment because this is someone who's a boy man realizing his dream of being a Grand Prix winner. And this could set him on a way towards being one of the youngest ever world champions as well if he has this continued run. Because right now Mercedes are looking pretty hot.

6:07Kimi Antonelli:I think everyone loved that moment. I mean, some quotes I saw. Bono, who's obviously Kimi's race engineer and was Lewis's for such a long time, said it felt like he was getting the band back together. Toto said he's been in Formula One for such a long time now, and this is one of the best moments he's ever had. And then George, which was, I think, my favourite of the weekend, him, Lewis and Kimi were all sat doing their press conference afterwards, and he said, I think if the three of us could have all picked who to share a podium with, it would have been each other. That's great. And you could really feel that.

6:38Kimi Antonelli:I loved when the celebrations were happening on the podium. They all took a photo and then George stepped aside and he said to Bono, you have your photo with your boys. And it was just everyone, no matter who you supported. Racing respect. Exactly that. And it was such a nice feeling. I don't remember seeing such a wholesome weekend in Formula One for a really long time. A couple of things just to balance out that wholesomeness. Did you pick up on the fact that the announcer said, Kimi Raikkonen! Rather than Kimi Antonelli. And then also, I don't know, this may not make the edit, but in Italian, I never saw it, but I heard that when Stefano went into the room, Kimi said to Stefano, when he ran wide at the hairpin late in the Grand Prix, he went, it translated, I almost s***ed my pants.

7:29Which, you know, his age, he's probably still going to nappy, so it would have been fine.

7:33Lewis Hamilton:That's what I like to call a brown sector.

7:37Lewis Hamilton:no but look it was obviously when we were watching it on the broadcast from back at home you couldn't actually hear at least on the channel that I was watching it on you couldn't actually hear that they said Raikkonen but you could see that Kimi had this sort of weird bizarre reaction coming out he was kind of like shocked but like laughing at the same time and we were all wondering what went on so you know some scrolling on socials did the justice and we found out that it was uh they called him Kimi Raikkonen which is like quite unfortunate for your first victory to be you know called by the wrong name but just to go back to him winning I mean it's not very often we see new winners in Formula One it doesn't happen every day and when it does happen I feel like it's so special especially seeing such a young driver like Kimi you know there's been a lot of pressure around his name and a lot of weight around what he can possibly do and him being the next protege at Mercedes and last year didn't you know always come together in the way that I think a lot of people had expected given there was so much expectation.

8:33Lewis Hamilton:So honestly, just, yeah, the family story, you know, the fact that, you know, we, you know, as young racers, this, we have a dream. And then when you finally get to Formula One, and then you're able to step on the top step of that podium, I mean, it's, I don't, I can't imagine how incredible it is to feel that you've made it to, you know, what you set out for, to achieve not just for yourself, but for your family and for the whole team. And so, yeah, such feel, such a feel good moment. He was named after Kimi Raikkonen, wasn't he? So I guess he probably quite enjoyed the the name check but what I find so impressive is I know it's a few generations before or after my time but to do it at 19 I first drove a Grand Prix car at 19 I got to drive the McLaren Honda of Ayrton Senna as as part of a young driver award and you know I remember coming away from that going oh it's just a car because when you look at Formula One from the outside you just think it's this you know spaceship but actually it was a great way for me to realize it's just a car but it was a further four years before I entered Formula One and by that point you know I'm not going to say I was a man I probably didn't quite get to that until I was about 30 but I won my first Grand Prix at 24 25 almost so how they can take it in how they can actually understand the world around them I think it was Arvid Lindblad when he got points in his first Grand Prix he said that he's been working for this his whole life I'm thinking his whole life my working life is longer than the life he's actually been on planet Earth.

10:04Kimi Antonelli:It was lovely to see and obviously you know Naomi you mentioned Kimi had his doubters and I thought Toto knew exactly what he was doing he had a script prepared when he crossed that finish line and he was saying you know they said don't put a kid in the car they said put him in a smaller team first and look where he is but I think we can all say that we all were slightly nervous when Toto put Kimi in the seat and maybe it was slightly premature because Lewis you know obviously went to Ferrari but it's paid off it has isn't it and I think good for Toto and I think I said this in the first episode I think he's going to give Georgia a real run for his money.

10:40Lewis Hamilton:You can put a lot of pressure on a young driver's shoulders like that with him filling the boots of a seven-time world champion even though I always like to caveat with the fact that it's not filling the boots you know Lewis was also moving on but it's a lot of pressure so how much you know we hear time and time again that when a driver wins their first Grand Prix it kind of relieves them of a certain pressure so when you won that first race despite it being a little bit later in your career how much did that relieve the pressure and did that have an effect on the way you went racing in the future or was it just very much back to business well I won my 21st Grand Prix because I only did eight races in 94 sharing the car with Mansell after Ayrton Senna was killed and then in 95 there was 16 Grand Prix's so nowhere near as many races as we have today so actually Kimi's done more races than I had done at that point so um so in terms of Grand Prix experience he's actually a more experienced driver than I was when I got the first win I think the the thing for me if I if I take a step back from how great a story it is and the whole paddock was happy for him no question you know they'd Mickey Mouse and Minnie Mouse there in a collaboration with Formula One.

11:47I thought their white gloves were going to fly off. They were clapping and shaking so much. But what's going to be really interesting is how he paces himself during the course of the year. And that's where I think Lando had the advantage over Oscar last year. Having more experience of life, having more experience of Grand Prix racing, he didn't have the drop-off in performance. And this is a long year, even if we do miss those two Grand Prix's. And George's experience might be the thing that keeps him more level, if you like, for the entire year. So if George wins another Grand Prix, he's going to be happy, but he's not going through this emotional rollercoaster that we've just seen that Kimi's gone through.

12:25So that all takes time and energy. I love to love, I love to be on the extremes of emotions, but it takes something out of you. So he's going to now get back on track and go and build on that in Suzuka.

12:37Kimi Antonelli:But my question is, how long do the good teammates last? George was so happy up there for Kimi. He was saying it was great to see. if it's going one win to George, one win to Kimi and it's as close as potentially it's going to be how long are they going to stay friends? Well look, it's done, it's done now because George knows he has a real threat for this championship this might be as we've seen with Lando last year and Oscar McLaren reached a point where they delivered them a car and they fought for the world championship amazingly they almost lost out to Max by a couple of points but this could be the only time in this new era of Formula 1 that Mercedes gives them the sort of advantage they've got.

13:16So make no bones about it. George, behind that facade of well-done Kimi, is trying to get every advantage he can over him for Suzuka in the next Grand Prix and going forward. And Kimi's team should be doing the same. The name team-mates is a misnomer. He's not your mate. If you get along with him away from the track, that's great. But his success is your failure and vice versa.

13:39Lewis Hamilton:I think that also George might have a bone to pick with Kimi about the middle child syndrome that is sort of a love that he wasn't getting from Kimi whenever Lewis was around. But yeah, look, I think, yes, it's been good to see for Mercedes, especially, I think that if something goes wrong, because we can't take away the fact that George did have a technical issue in qualifying that ultimately put Kimi in this position to fight for the victory. But, you know, the fact that when George has an issue, Kimi is able to step up to the plate and deliver results and deliver points and take that victory is really reassuring.

14:12Lewis Hamilton:And on top of that, throughout the race, I mean, it was at some point once George had got out of the battle with the Ferraris, I kind of thought that they might, he might sort of chip into that gap towards Kimi. And actually the pace was very evenly matched. I mean, they were, they were, it was very difficult for George until Kimi had that bit of a lockup to even eat anything out of that gap. So he was very quick out there, despite him being alone and less under pressure. I think he did a fantastic job. Now, another person who did a fantastic job and everyone is talking about is Lewis Hamilton, his first podium with Ferrari.

14:45Lewis Hamilton:What did you two make of it? Well, look, I think he drove brilliantly. And there's no question he's been a lot happier. We did pre-season chat, didn't we? We're going, is it because of loves in the air or is it because he's genuinely enjoying these cars? And I think that there's no question that there's a bit of a split audience, isn't there, in terms of those that are loving the on-track action. and let's say more the historical purists who are going, well, the drivers are harvesting in areas where you would typically have been pushing. Putting all that to one side, the rules are the same for everybody and all the teams have had the opportunity to put their best foot forward.

15:17Ferrari have put on track the second best car at the moment. They're an annoyance to Mercedes, but they don't have the pace in the first two Grand Prix's to beat them over that duration. But what we have seen is Hamilton somehow adapting to the set of regulations. and although Leclerc came back strong at the second half of the race in Melbourne and I was kind of watching from the commentary box thinking, okay, when's Leclerc going to come? Leclerc didn't. That was a Hamilton masterclass in a one-stop race and I think just taking a step back, that's probably where George was not able to really push into Kimi and put him under pressure because of that one stop.

15:53It was a long way to go on one set of tyres but that tees it up perfectly as we go to Suzuka. One of the monster racetracks on the calendar, it really separates the boys from the men.

16:03Kimi Antonelli:I don't think you can argue it was very entertaining I mean especially when Charles and Lewis were going wheel to wheel through corners you know everything about it everyone was on the edge of their seat we were thinking are they going to crash? They're so close. I mean I think Lewis actually said at one point they did touch but it was so minor that obviously nothing had happened but it's funny to see you mentioned the complete there's such a split down the grid you had Lewis saying and Charles Charles came on the radio saying, I'm really enjoying this battle. Lewis said after the race, he really enjoyed it.

16:35Kimi Antonelli:And then you had Max in an interview say something along the lines of, even if I was winning, I wouldn't enjoy this. If you think this is fun, you don't understand a thing about racing. And it's like, right, there is a real split here. But I don't think anyone can argue whether you like the new regs or you don't. It was entertaining. Yeah. Yeah, no question about that. But I think that you do raise an interesting point because Max was probably the most vocal on it. but Naomi I don't know if you picked up as well that simmering below was Lando Lando's not really enjoying you would expect Oscar to be speaking out because he hasn't done even a lap of Grand Prix racing yet but yeah I wonder I wonder if it's just a case of they need the results to to start feeling this new set of regulations

17:16Lewis Hamilton:yeah well that's kind of what I was thinking I mean yes maybe as a purist you think that this where we're at with Formula One and the way that they go racing doesn't necessarily give advantage to the best driver who's pushing the car to its absolute limit. So I can understand why there's a level of frustration there. But I, for one, was already relieved of what we saw in Australia, but even more so now that we've seen racing in Shanghai, where there wasn't as much of an issue in terms of being able to recharge the battery. I found that the racing was a little bit more balanced. I get that it's a bit challenging, but I think that those drivers, particularly the McLarens and Max, who obviously is, you know, he's there to win, he's frustrated anyway.

17:56Lewis Hamilton:And I think that once they get into the conversation, sort of at the front of the grid where they've got the equipment that they can go racing, maybe the experience for them will be slightly different as well. And they might change their tune a little bit. But I agree with your point, DC, in the fact that everybody's had the same script. Everybody's been given the same rules and regulations. And at the end of the day, it's a new set of challenges that some have come out better managing and handling. But, you know, at the end of the day, it's, I think, even more cognitive load for the drivers. It's a new set of skills that need to be unlocked, a new way of doing things.

18:30Lewis Hamilton:And yeah, whether we like it or not, it's what we've got. And maybe that five-week break will make things even a little bit better. So let's just give it some more time, I would say.

18:39Kimi Antonelli:But going back to the Ferraris, do we think that them fighting each other, I mean, I say, do we think? I do think that it ultimately costs them getting closer to Kimi. And how long can they go ahead throughout the season doing this? I mean, you can't really pick a number one driver between the two of them. No, they're two number ones. I think you're absolutely spot on. Ferrari rules. Sometimes it's uncomfortable to watch, isn't it? Because I said in commentary, well, look, if Charles is hustling on Lewis, why not just release him? See if he can go and put the Mercedes under pressure, because you don't know if there's going to be another safety car or various other things.

19:13And then if he doesn't, then you can then say swap the positions back. All the time they're racing each other, which is brilliant for us. They're just losing ground relative to Mercedes. So I'm going to assume in the absence of speaking to Fred that they were like, we do not have the pace to win this Grand Prix. So this is about us just doing our thing and then we'll develop the car and see if we can battle Mercedes. I was surprised by that,

19:41Kimi Antonelli:but hell it gave us a great race and it you know it meant Georgia overtook as well so although they didn't go and win the race they also lost out on a double podium yeah I mean I'm not really sure

19:51Lewis Hamilton:that their battle on the day was Mercedes I think Mercedes really do feel like they're in a league of their own I think because Ferrari have this fast starting engine they're able to get ahead of them and then because of the whole nature of deployment battery recharge etc they keep within the battle of the Mercedes longer than we normally would see them. But I think ultimately Mercedes are in a league of their own. They were never going to win that battle to them on the day. And I think luckily for them, they weren't on a track that had extremely high graining or anything like that. But the back and forth battling that they were doing is obviously not helping their tires.