Have Cadillac been too cut-throat firing their boss?

16:25Will:And, you know, I think there's another part of this as well, which is, you know, you mentioned the three bases that they have. In a very short space of time, Cadillac are going to be producing their own engines. So, you know, what part of Martin as now the team principal of Cadillac is going to be having to sort of oversee that element of it? I'm sure it's not because I'm sure GM themselves are overseeing all of that. But it's surely got to be part of the job role. We'll be spending time in each of those three bases and overseeing each of the three arms of what Cadillac will be as a Formula One entrant.

17:04Will:You know, you have the British base, you have the base over in Fishers, Indiana, and then you have the one in Charlotte, North Carolina, which is ostensibly the engine base. You know, there's a lot of talk about who goes where and which job roles are going to be associated with which factory. And do people who are now working at the British base, are they going to have to move out to Indiana and work at that base? And if so, do they stay at the team or is that a move too far? Because Formula One for right or wrong is ostensibly and remains a European based sport, certainly in terms of the teams and where they're based and people have got their lives.

17:42Will:So I think there's a lot of big questions that have got to be answered at the moment for the immediate future of the team and how Martin kind of handles all of that.

17:51DC:I feel like there's a genuine sentiment, though, that they want to be a genuinely American team and not just a British team with an American stamp on it. And, you know, there's also been a lot of talk about them feeling like they haven't even scratched the surface of the potential that GM has to offer to their package. So I genuinely think we will see them shifting to be more and more US-based. But at the same time, like, how do you do that whilst a lot of the sort of F1 expertise and a lot of the, you know, sort of more senior leadership people and more technical-led members of the team are usually quite European-based anyway, let's say, but quite a lot of them are in the UK.

18:31Naomi:Yeah, look, I think what we have to acknowledge is there have been occasions over history where having a base, let's say, outside of where the mothership operates. So I'm thinking Penske used to build their cars in the UK and race them in America. And they had some success. IndyCar don't do that anymore. They have one make formula, effectively, with a chassis. But I am not aware, and somebody tell me otherwise, of it working where you're in Formula One terms, where you've got such a fragmented setup because the skill set required, it'd be like a British team trying to run a NASCAR team out of the UK.

19:14Naomi:You know, you need all that knowledge and expertise and DNA. So I see Cadillac as an American team because they have American ownership. So the fact that they, like other international businesses, have a base in the UK is just a smart way of operating. If they think, and I don't, you know, this is an assumption if you're saying they want to make it more American, if they think they can eventually do all of that in America, I think the time and resource and energy and the education system of trying to bring up young mechanics and young engineers, it'll take decades to try and do that. So I think, you know, having the engine made whatever, Honda are a great example.

19:58Naomi:They've won world championships building engines in Japan and servicing them in Europe and then putting them in the back of a Formula One team.

20:05Will:I think we have an example in modern history, and it's Renault. They had base in Viri-Châtillon, which was ostensibly for engines. But there was also a large percentage of the Formula One team operation had a base in Viri. And then you had the large percentage of the manufacturing, and the large percentage of the team itself was based in Enstone at the factory that now houses what we call Alpine. But that never really meshed and never really worked. And you had the sort of locking of horns and the butting of heads between. And again, it mostly came down to politics, but between the French factory and the British factory.

20:47Will:And that was a team that operated with two bases and they never quite hit as a as a factory team. They never hit the heights that they did as a pure engine manufacturer because of of how difficult it was, I think, to run those two bases and run them as one. If you're trying to run three bases as a brand new team, I think it's very, very difficult. It's laudable to want to be an American team. Do you have to be based at Silverstone? Do you have to be based in Motorsport Valley? you know maybe this is an old-fashioned um trope and maybe it's not true anymore but the reason that everybody was based in motorsport valley which is kind of a triangle between oxfordshire and milton keynes and um and in the middle of the uk is because that's where all of the manufacturing companies that produce the things that you needed to build racing cars it's where they all gravitated to because it's where all the f1 teams were and it was near silverstone and you know it was nice and central close to the airports and that just became motorsport valley is there anything to say that those same you know the manufacturers you know aren't as good in america or that the processes aren't as good in america everyone's got the same equipment these days right everyone's using the same cnc machines everyone's using the same um uh you know the big carbon fiber ovens and you know it's and then it comes down to people and i don't believe that america doesn't have skilled enough people because you look at any racing championship that exists in america look at the quality and imsa you know prime example um that they wouldn't have the people that would be able to be mechanics engineers and do it so i don't know if it's an old-fashioned principle that you have to be based in europe but i think even from just a logistics perspective it probably makes a little more sense um but i don't know what whether the question is is whether it makes sense to be an American team operating out of America, or actually if it's just does it make sense to have three bases as a brand new team when you're trying to get your ducks in a row?

22:50Will:I think that's probably a bigger question.

22:52Naomi:Yeah, time will tell whether they've got the right mix. I think another question is, Naomi, if you put your driving hat on, I don't know if you've ever experienced this, you get used to working, your chain of command. And you've got your team principal, you've got your race engineers, you've got your chief mechanic. And I'm thinking for Bottas and Perez, will it be destabilizing for them that the guide that they have been going to at the racetrack as the most senior person has now been changed? And to answer my own question before you do, I don't think it will affect them. I don't think it will affect them because they're both experienced race winners and they've been around the block.

23:32Naomi:But maybe I'm just a bit long in the tooth. So with your shorter, younger minds, what's your view on that?

23:40DC:Well, look, obviously, I think any sort of senior leadership changes will be destabilizing to some extent, right? Especially the nature of which this has happened. It happened very quickly. And so people having to get back up to speed as it's race week is going to cause some sort of turmoil. Not turmoil, but some sort of turbulence. However, it is a start-up Formula One team. So I think when you think of Barca's in Paris and the project that they were joining with this Cadillac F1 team, I'm sure that they knew in the back of their minds that there was going to be a lot of change. Right. And I'm sure that they, you know, got ready for what was to come.

24:15DC:But on another sense, I think this is a question I'm going to throw back to you, DC, is when that sort of leadership change happens midseason. And I think you've experienced this before. What happens to that relationship with a new team principal? because if I'm correct, Checo and Bottas both have signed contracts until the end of 2027, although we know that in the sport, the paper that those contracts, it ain't worth the paper that it's written on, right? So do you think that these two drivers are going to be trying to win Marcin Bukowski over to make sure that they can extend that relationship?

24:50DC:Is that what happens? You just like turn on the charm?

24:53Naomi:Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, is yours ever turned off anyway? I'm sorry to get my words out.

24:58Will:That's a yes at DC for once. The only time that DC stumbles over his words is because the answer is yes. Yes.

25:07Naomi:Yeah, they'll both want to impress. Just on that, actually, just a quick review. I'd kind of billed that Bottas was going to be sort of setting the pace there, given that Checo had taken a year out. And then, as we touched on on a previous podcast, kind of out of the blocks, Checo looked a bit stronger. And then Valtteri's come up. and now they've kind of leveled out as the two quality drivers that we know they are. They're both Grand Prix winners. So I suppose it's my bad for not looking a little bit more in detail at whether that was a technical issue that was holding one back and allowing the other.

25:45Naomi:But I think now Marston's there, we need to open up a better line of communication and keep all those Cadillac fans fully up to speed with just the head-to-head between those two drivers. It feels that they're slightly out of the spotlight of that because one, they're a building team and two, we know they're winners.

26:05Will:I think Sergio's done wonders for himself this year after the bruising end to his time at Red Bull. And there's a lot of chat that Sergio's quite high on the list of any number of teams in the paddock who might be looking for a new driver for next year. Cadillac, of course, still seemingly intent on rushing Colton Hurta into a seat. He will have, I believe, by the end of the year, once he's done all the free practice sessions, if Abu Dhabi happens and he gets that one. He'll have enough points for his super license this year, which he will get, which will roll him over into next year. So it's not out of the realms of possibility that we see Colton Hurta on the track either in 27 or probably be more sensible in 28.

26:51Will:But there is still a chance that it's 2027. And of course, all of that falls in line with the ownership of the Cadillac F1 team, because it's not just Cadillac. It's the TWG group and Dan Taurus who run that operation and who have brought Cadillac as a partner into Formula One. And when we talk about, you know, things being destabilizing, guys over here in the States at the moment, TWG is very much under the microscope. So Mark Walter, who's the money man behind TWG Global, which owns TWG Motorsports, is being investigated by the feds to see whether I believe it's billions of dollars from his insurance companies that he controls.

27:36Will:were essentially rooted through intermediaries into TWG businesses without kind of the true nature of the relationship being properly disclosed. No charges have been brought or anything like that. It's simply an investigation. But fascinatingly, within a couple of days of this investigation being announced, TWG sold the LA Lakers basketball team. So they own not just Cadillac in Formula One, not just andretti in indycar they own the lakers the dodgers chelsea um is one of the entities that they own um they bought the lakers last year for 10 billion they basically bought bought the duplex in town and they and they flipped it you know they they did homes under the hammer with it um and um they've sold it this year for 12 and a half billion so a nice two and a half billion increase in the cost.

28:33Will:Now, whether that covers what they need to cover or not, whether they have to realign some of their businesses, time will tell and it will depend what the federal investigation decides. But it's more than just a team principle change for TWG over the summer break. There is quite a lot going on and I imagine quite a lot of stress happening behind the scenes.

28:55DC:We'll make sure that that isn't the first question that we ask to mass in on day one of the job in Zanford. We'll let him sort of ease into it before we go grilling him about that. As you say, well, it is obviously an ongoing investigation, but that doesn't mean they've been found guilty of anything at this point. But as you say, slightly interesting coincidence that they sell the Lakers at a very similar time. So let's watch keenly to see what goes on there, because there could be a potential shift in ownership on the horizon for the team. Who knows? Let's wait and see.

29:23Will:But it's probably important to note the feds aren't investigating Cadillac F1. They're investigating the financial empire of the guy who runs TWG, which ultimately is the parent group that owns the Cadillac F1 team.

29:37DC:Okay, well, Will, thank you for clearing that up. Now, before you go anywhere, well, actually don't go anywhere, because in a little bit, we're going to be talking about the final Dutch Grand Prix. It's race week, ladies and gentlemen, and it is happening in Zanford, but this is the last edition of that race. So stick around, because we're going to debrief all of that in a second. So for now, please make sure you head over to our social media platforms. It's at UpToSpeedShow. If you're not subscribed to us yet on YouTube, please go ahead and hit that red button.

30:11Will:right fan question from julia uh why is this the last dutch grand prix uh especially given that max is so popular um it's a fair question there is an easy answer um who wants to give it

30:25DC:an easy answer is there an easy answer well first of all the dutch grand prix made its way back onto the calendar after a 35 year absence it's a circuit that a lot of drivers relish some others potentially hate it. But it very much distinctly feels like the Max Verstappen Festival. There's orange everywhere in the crowds. I mean, he won the race there in 21, 22, 23. And so, you know, I think that in the climate that F1 is in, where it's booming, we have sold out events pretty much all year round. It feels like an interesting decision to me, but there are obviously risks associated for promoters.

31:00DC:And obviously there's other promoters making very competitive offers, aren't there, do you see?

31:05Naomi:Yeah, I think that from my point of view, if we look at how the Grand Prix came to be, the Dutch Prince, Bernard, Dutch Prince, did I say that correctly? Bernard of Orange, is a motorsports fan, along with his partner. They were instrumental in bringing the Grand Prix back to Holland on the wave of Max's success. And they're limited in what they can do with facility, they're surrounded by a natural park, the sand dunes. They can't expand, they can't grow. And of course, Formula One are continuing to look for increase in the revenues from their commercial rights. So I think it's just got to the point where it's probably not commercially viable for them to keep going as is.

31:48Naomi:And for Formula One, there's other places, you know, Rwanda and other places that are saying, hey, we want to be part of the Formula One family, and they're going to build facilities that are state-of-the-art. I actually think that Zanvoort is a brilliant little racetrack. My first international victory as a young driver in Formula 3 happened there. And they've developed, I think, one of the best paddock clubs down into Tarzan, the first corner, because you basically can see the whole of the first corner when you're in the paddock club. So there's a lot of things that we need to say thank you and well done to Zanvoort.

32:23Naomi:But the journey has come to its end and I don't believe we'll ever go back there with Formula One. So remember this period, ladies and gentlemen.

32:32Will:Yeah, I think it's important to find the delineation between it being the last race and the race being dropped. As I understand it hasn't been dropped. The Dutch Grand Prix promoter themselves have decided not to go forward with the offer of a new contract precisely because of the financial risk that it represented for them. And you think that's a bit weird. How is there a financial risk where it's selling out every year? And I think the financial risk, DC, to your point is, you know, do we have the means to be able to carry on improving the facilities that are there? Can we continue to pay the sanctioning fee when they are going up because the demand for races is increasing and the cost associated with hosting a race goes up and up and up?

33:15Will:It is a fantastic track. It's a fantastic venue. there are few circuits in the world that have that same atmosphere as zanvor on race day when max verstappen is racing it is so vibrant and it just the place has a heartbeat of its own there's like there's there's a thud to the place when you're walking in it feels like a music festival it's it's just absolutely fantastic um but you've got to remember as well this isn't you know underwritten by a by a government this is a race that is privately financed and and always has been since it came back um so they don't have the ability to do what what some of the other you know bigger circuits might do in in unlimited spending um and that's a crying shame but i think the promoter ultimately has said look we could sign another deal for five or six years and leave ourselves open to not being able to fulfill that because the costs get too high or we can see out our current contract, sell out our final couple of years, go out on a high, say thank you very much Formula One.

34:16Will:It's been wonderful and leave with happy memories. And, you know, it's quite a it's quite a noble route out, I guess. Yeah, I agree.

34:24DC:How do we think Max will be feeling? I mean, it's special to have a home Grand Prix, isn't it? And this one, as we've all pointed out, it does feel distinctly Max's race. So even more so special. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

34:37Will:Are you saying that Max is Dutch? I thought he had the argument that he was Belgian. I was wondering where you were going there.

34:47DC:Well, he is actually Belgian, but he is also a Dutch.

34:51Will:Oh, so oh God, he's losing the Belgian Grand Prix as well, isn't he? Poor bastard. Yeah, exactly. So he's got no home to go to.

35:00DC:Well, he'll have one on and off. On and off.

35:03Will:On and off, exactly.

35:04DC:Monaco. Monaco will have to be his home Grand Prix from now on. Exactly. But there's obviously this sort of debate and there's always been this sort of belief that a home race gives you an extra couple of tenths. If anything, I think Max is probably the one driver who probably cares the least about that. And if anything, it probably gives him more and more media obligations that he probably doesn't want to partake in anymore. But also, I don't know what the event was called, but didn't he used to have his own private event at Zonfort for his fans? so I think there is a possibility of him coming back to do that that might be commercially way

35:40Naomi:more interesting for him yeah yeah he he does he does he did a theater thing um this year I think as well where unsurprisingly it was sold out but yeah look Max is he's a racer he wants to go racing he's not really into my mind that sort of commercially you know add-on minded and you know obviously he's got a brilliant management team around him but he just wants to race cars and have fun. So the fact that it's Zanvoort, it'll be one of those things that he'll probably not really miss it until it's gone, where today, if you ask, not going back there, he probably is like, whatever, why would I think about that?

36:17Naomi:So it's a bit of nostalgia for those that have been following Formula 1 for a long time, because Zanvoort has been part of the history of this sport. But I say we're coming to the end of an era and we should celebrate the promoters that brought it back. Well done them. And onwards and upwards for Formula One.

36:37Will:Yeah, you've got to take your hat off to the promoter and to Formula One. I never thought in my lifetime I'd see Formula One at Zandvoort. You know, I knew about the history of the place. Obviously, the Formula Three Masters at Zandvoort that took place every year. But I never thought I'd see Formula One at Zandvoort. And the job they did to bring it up to spec, to bring it back to being a Formula One circuit, it has to be lauded. because they did a huge job on reprofiling the circuit, on resurfacing the track, on building the grandstands and getting it up to a level where it would pass and be approved for modern-day Formula 1.

37:12Will:Sensational job from everybody involved, something that a lot of circuits could learn from in terms of bringing themselves back into viability because Zanvoort's day was done. There was no way we were going back there, and yet we've had an incredible time racing at a track that a lot of us never thought we would. So yeah, chapeau. Great job.

37:32DC:Right. So I guess we should wrap because we've been talking and talking and we don't have much more time. We wanted to dive into Malaysia, but I suppose we'll keep that for our next episode. Gentlemen, thank you very much. Will, go back to sleep. I know it's very, very early where you are. DC, I shall be seeing you in a couple of days. The day starts here.

37:51Naomi:Yeah, I'll see you in Zanfurt. So safe travels, Will. And Naomi, see you. Thank you. See you for a, what's it, a stoop waffling or something. Bitter balling. How do you say that? Stoop waffling.

38:03DC:Stoop waffling. And a bitter balling. Stoop waffling.

38:06Naomi:Fantastic.

38:09DC:Okay, well, everyone at home, we hope that we will see you there. In the meantime, please make sure you're following us on socials. It's at Up To Speed Show. If you want to send us an email, it's uptospeed at global.com. And we will be answering your questions on Thursday. So make sure you drop them in the comments. Bye-bye for now.

38:29Naomi:This has been a global production.