Is Max Verstappen ready to quit?

0:02This is a Global Player original podcast. Oliver Behrman, 50G crash at Spoon Corner. At the cost of someone getting seriously hurt, they've got to hold their hands up. That was uncomfortable to watch. It's not a good time for Max. It would be a huge loss if Max was to take time out. Kimmy is everyone's golden boy. Your teammate's success is your failure. How f***ed off is George? Mark my words, it will change. How do I explain to you the feeling of being on the edge of adhesion? You think you're going to crash, but you're fighting to not crash. You get through the corner, get out the other side and you go, oh God, I got away with it.

0:51It's David. It's Jolie and welcome to Up to Speed. Now, the Japanese Grand Prix did not disappoint. So many of you have reached out with questions that you need answers to. And today, I'll be putting them to DC. Max's future, Oli Behrman's lucky escape. But we have to start with Kimi Antonelli going back to back in Suzuka. DC, is he officially the man to beat this year? Well, I think what we've seen is sometimes you need a bit of luck in motorsport. and he certainly fell lucky with the safety car. But he did drive extremely well and he won by, what, well over 10 seconds as well. 13.7 gap he called, Piazzi.

1:32So you are the factual person on this couch. Thank you. Or within the chair. Sofa. I'm channeling my inner Will Buxton. Yeah, exactly. So, look, the kid's there and this is going to be a tight battle, not only between him and George Russell, but it looks like McLaren are finding their way back into a little bit of form. and I think this will ebb and flow during the year so having that little bit of a buffer so early in the season could be crucial Yeah, I definitely agree and I think that Kimi's maturity is skyrocketing so quickly you know, he came off that podium there's no shame here I'm the biggest Kimi Antonelli fan ever but in all of his interviews he's clearly very self-critical he's like, you know, my starts, they're so terrible again, he dropped from P1 to P6 Oscar took the lead, we saw that and of course the safety car luck you call a free for anyone that doesn't understand the safety car pit stops it's like a free pit stop isn't it normal one's about 20 seconds and under a safety car is 10 seconds so Kimi was lucky but he's keeping his head down you know building that gap he's got a great car and when he came off and he was doing the interviews he was like I've got five weeks now I've got to work on my starts Toto's gonna kill me and I just love his human side the honesty the honesty well mark my words it will change because he's going to grow up in the public eye he's going to go from being this is all new and exciting and i'm getting invited to you know being courtside at the basketball or wherever he happens to go to suddenly it will start to become a little bit tiresome because people will want something from him all the time so let's put a mark in the sand see that sort of joyful smile let's fast forward maybe not this year but certainly throughout his career he will become a little bit battle weary and um you know we don't want him to lose that enthusiasm right now the other thing will be does he have the pace of a grand prix season because that is tiring and i think that's what we saw with oscar piastri last year he got tobacco needed to win that race and made a series of mistakes and that's where lando having more experience was able to come through so if i was george russell you know this is now this is war zone you know no more Mr Nice Guy we said it after Kimi getting his first victory from now on in and there was actually there was a really good interview that I saw online with Toto and George where they were sort of debriefing real time and I thought it was great that Mercedes shared that on their socials because it gives us an insight to the fact that you know Toto's there in one moment sort of trying to pick up George and then the other side he'll go into the room with Kimi going you did it I believed in you I'm your daddy who's your daddy?

4:10there you go you are down with kids you know you know the social media memes that leads us to our next question morale hodges on our instagram asked simply how pissed off is george going to be now i saw an interview afterwards where george russell said it all came down to one lap if you know i pitted one lap later i would have won the race look hindsight's a wonderful thing if there was no safety car he's claiming he would have won the race i don't actually believe that i think piastri would have won the race but you know who knows after the race kept his helmet on walk back and I think the interview you were talking about the reason they probably put that out is a bit of marketing media magic damage limitation 100 and you know Kimi is everyone's golden boy George obviously doesn't have that yeah look he in the moment the whole classic driver walking with the helmet is the international sign of don't talk to me I'm in a bad place and I just need to clear my head we've seen it before we'll see it again I think George is realizing this is his opportunity and you know any advantage that they've had in those early races will slowly be eroded as their customer teams understand how to use their energy as Kimi grows in confidence you don't want a really confident teammate you want a teammate that's slightly thinking oh I can't I'm not sure I can beat him in qualifying trust me I know because I teammates where I would sit there looking at the lap time and qualifying and thinking I've got one more set of tires I don't think I can go any faster so George has to now start eroding that confidence within Kimi and he's having to do that whilst of course the facade of the team Mercedes you know we're we love each other everyone's fine but it will come to a head and as far as I'm concerned for George he's got to get his shoulders shoulder behind that and get his elbows out sooner rather than later because Kimi is growing in confidence right now yeah no I agree and I realize for anyone that hasn't watched the race or didn't see what happened when we're talking about luck it's because George Russell was called into pit lap 22 and then Ollie Behrman crashed lap 22 so a safety car was pulled out literally the lap after George pitted so you can understand his frustration yeah but none of us can control that that's the racing gods all the team the team can't control it and you know it's not Kimmy's fault either so I think look I understand his frustration you can obviously tell me when you've been in a car and probably experienced something similar it's a frustration we as fans can never understand, we're not in that seat.

6:33Well, I do recall the generation of cars I raced, they were a lot less reliable. So there were several races that I was leading. I was winning, I'd done my final pit stop, and then the engine blows up. You just can't do anything. But as a team, you take that pain altogether clearly. As the engine manufacturer, and that was Mercedes for most of my career, that was painful because quite clearly in a sport where we don't have a blame culture, we have a responsibility culture, if the engine blows, then quite clearly it's down to the engine manufacturer if the driver crashes the car which I did on several occasions then it's down to you talking of which crashing then you touched on there Oliver Behrman 50g crash at Spoon Corner that was uncomfortable to watch you know I don't know how it is from a fan point of view but as a racer closing speed and just missing the back of another car is your that's your worst nightmare as a racing driver no and for sure we'll come on to his crash later on.

7:27I know we've got a lot of questions on that, but just finishing up with Kimi, I think it's safe to say there's a lot of pressure on him from the outside world. I'm hearing stats, you know, it was the 50th pole for an Italian driver in F1. He's now the youngest ever driver leading the championship. And I've seen parallels between him and Senna. And, you know, here it was three podiums in their rookie seasons, first win and pole in the second race of second season. Both have the number 12 on their car for their maiden win, second pole in the race after first win now is this just a bit of fun is it spooky or is it a sign of greatness to come I know you're not very spiritual neither am I to be honest but it's fascinating it's lovely isn't it yeah it is nice and I really admire the the statisticians who give us all that information and there's a nice symmetry to to this young driver making his way in Formula One I remember watching Senna when he won his first Grand Prix was in 1985 in Portugal in the rain and he just dominated the Grand Prix and there's some amazing images there.

8:29And then, of course, we know what he went on to achieve. What is actually surprising that, as you said, it was the 50th victory for an Italian. I'm surprised. 50th pole. 50th pole. Can you consider that Italy has got such a rich passion automotive? It's surprising there's not been more success for Italian drivers. The feeder series to motor racing is karting. The home of karting is Italy. Some of the best drivers I've ever seen in karting have come from Italy. But yet somehow when they go to cars, maybe it's when they suddenly don't have the family there and mama's not cooking the pasta on Sunday lunch.

9:02Maybe when they get taken out of that family environment, they're not as sort of, you know, it's like the super cape coming off them. And maybe that's what Toto has done with Kimi. He's kept him in this feeling of family. So maybe we won't see the drop-off in his performance. And I mean, that's a very interesting point you've touched on because Marnie's also asked us on Instagram, does Toto have to change up his strategy now? This is going to be an interesting one for him to manage. He's been there before when he had Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton going toe-to-toe. But in a way, because they'd both been teammates in karting, they'd come up through more of racing together.

9:38Actually, it was a bit of more of a hands-off managerial style because they would kind of sort it out on track together. But with Kimi being so much younger and George being the more experienced driver who's been part of Mercedes since the junior programme as well, it just feels as if it should be George's time. Now, just because it feels like it should be his time doesn't mean that actually Kimi now might discover another year and go on to dominate the season. I don't think that will be the case, but it could happen. So George is going to be looking at Toto going, you know buddy I've given you all these years I know you've given me so much in terms of an opportunity but what's going on here but that is for me why the the team principle the strength of a team principle is you want the two best drivers in your car and then you've got to manage that and it will always come to blows if you look through the Prost and Senna's and the Mansell's and PK's and various other big driver pairings it never ends with one saying to the other after you You know, your teammate's success is your failure.

10:38I mean, it's like you and Mika, obviously. You've spoken before about your relationship. You'd get in separate cars, separate planes, all just to be in the same office. I know, mental. Sat across each other. It's a different world now. And we've spoken about how the drivers do things a lot more together. They're playing golf, they're paddling, they're getting on the same planes. But I remember being at Mercedes' first media day with Kimi and George at Adidas' head office in Germany, which genuinely is like adult Disneyland. It's amazing. But George was literally, Kimmy would say something and George would go, no, no, no, don't say.

11:12It was older brother, little brother. And it must be a shock for George's system three races into the season to be like, you know, he's nine points clear of me now. What am I doing? Well, the World Championship last year, as a reminder, was won by two points. So that nine points that you mentioned right now is significant. And that actually, that nine point gap we're talking about was topical at the weekend with Max Verstappen because a journalist asked him about did he regret the contact with George Russell in Barcelona that cost him nine points. He lost the World Championship by two points. Max reacted in a way, basically, in Japan when he saw the journalist's face, he was like, out.

11:51Sent him away. And there was a bit of a follow-up. What did you make of that? Well, I see it this way, that it's probably not something that, on reflection, Max will feel good about because even though he's absolutely at rise, you don't have to answer the question. It is unusual to ask somebody to leave from that environment. And I'm actually a little bit surprised the FIA didn't take a stance on it. I didn't see anything that there was any sort of reprimand because basically if he was to say the word shit in there, he'd get fined. I saw an article on The Athletic afterwards from a fellow journalist saying, I think all of the other journalists should have got up and left.

12:29you know and I think that's kind of one extreme his argument Max said in a press conference afterwards is you don't see his face you know you hear him answering the question I remember vividly him last season asking a question that he knew that was going to bother me and laughing whilst he did it then from Max's point of view I understand you know he doesn't want to be taking the mick out of and he feels strongly about it but it's just not it's not a good time for Max is it I can only liken it to when I was racing and I never won the world championships that Max has, of course. But I was definitely open to some criticism from various journalists.

13:04And it's very difficult not to take it personally. So I'm sure you don't look at the comments on some of the social feeds because there'll be some who love you and there'll be some that just don't like you. And that's the way it is. So I certainly did get some criticism. And there was always an underlying, let's say, if they were questioning my qualifying ability. it was a fair question but of course it wasn't easy to be asked the same question time and time again and some journalists would be a lot more dismissive and it is their right as a journalist to say what they see but it is difficult not to take it personally and none of the drivers are exempt from that and right now Kimi Antonelli is getting all of the praise everything, everyone loves him and his mum will be getting cut out from newspapers if people still do that nowadays but as sure as he's being praised right now he'll get criticised at some point in the future, especially if he makes some mistakes.

13:54I remember one journalist writing that David has an amazing ability to talk about the incident as if he wasn't driving the car at the time. And it really shocked me because clearly he thought I was just making excuses all the time. But I didn't see it that way. But maybe I was being over-defensive and I spoke to that journalist and we made peace and moved on. But it is tough to take that public criticism. DC's still holding a garage journalist. If you're watching, we brought it up, so he's still holding a grudge. But question from Noodle Nick. Fun name. Do you like noodles, Noodle Nick? But she asks if we think Max will leave after this season.

14:33Look, for the sport, if Max were to leave, it would leave a massive hole at Christian Horner. Love him or hate him, whatever your opinions are. Him leaving has definitely left that villain void on a show like Drive to Survive. Everyone's getting on. Everyone's loving each other. and similarly with Max when he's racing you don't really know what's next you feel a lot safer I'm not sure safe is the right word but Max has had I think he's he's the last driver to have actually physically pushed someone he pushed Doc on didn't he and he's the last driver to kind of let go you don't he's less predictable I guess what I'm trying to say here and he's brilliant you can't take that away so do you think the sport the FIA now need to step in to keep him happy.

15:18Do you think they will do that? I don't think they will. I think Max is a career-defining or a generational-defining driver. I think Hamilton was that person before. You have to admire his absolute speed, his absolute commitment. And actually, you have to admire his what-you-see-is-what-you-get passion. It'd be very easy for him just to do short, one-word answers and not feed this conversation. But because he's passionate about it, because he cares about it, he's not prepared to say nothing, just cruise and collect which you know some other drivers maybe are just in that phase of their career so he the sport is bigger than any individual driver the sport is well has been around for a long time will continue to be around but I think that it would be a huge loss if Max was to take time out yeah I think the fans as well would would really miss him and I think he's definitely got his fair share of you know dislike over the years when he was winning I mean go back even further after the whole 2021 incident with Lewis Hamilton people really didn't like him and I think everyone has softened on him now and you know feels for him and don't want to see him go I mean that's definitely how I feel Please don't go Please Max Please don't go If you're listening to this in your spare time Babe I love you so So we're going to keep singing whilst you go to a quick little break but make sure to follow us on socials at Up To Speed Show So comment, subscribe, leave a review.

16:44And we'll be back shortly to talk about Oli Behrman and the crash that came with that.

16:53So there's a lot of fun and games on track and lots to talk about. But I think what has been one of the biggest concerns out of the weekend was the crash with Oliver Behrman. Just missing the back Colopinto as he approached down into the Spoon Corner. As an ex-driver, I can feel that closing speed. I had almost an incident with Fernando Alonso way back in, I think it was probably 98, 99 in Nürburgring in Germany, where he backed off 20 metres earlier than the previous lap. And I came this close to hitting him, ended up avoiding going into the gravel out of the Grand Prix. And I remember going to the stewards afterwards and being exasperated because that could have been an airplane crash.

17:32You know, the closing speeds are the most scary thing for a race driver. And we've seen it a few times in wet weather racing where the driver can't see the car in front. Schumacher on me in Spa back in the day, Ayrton Senna, I remember, in Australia when he was at McLaren. So Behrman was very lucky not to hit the back of Colopinto. 50G registered as he hit the barrier. And I did a quick little flick through to try and see, you know, what does that mean in real terms to the public? And there was a test done back in the late 50s. and they were trying to understand, I guess, for aviation or for space travel, how much a human could take.

18:09And I think there was a test that came out, a human did a deceleration test up to about 80 G and survived. They haven't actually done it deliberately beyond that. But I read Kenny Brack, a driver that I'd raced in the beginning of my career, a Swedish driver, went to America, had a crash that was registered at 200 G. Now, his career was finished after that point, multiple fractures, but he survived. So I guess the point being, it all depends on how that peak of G is taken and whether the car keeps moving or not. I think for Ollie, it was a sudden stop and you could see he hit his legs together, limped out of the car, thankfully no injuries.

18:45But that has to be a big talking point now. Sainz came out and he compared the crash to his in Russia in 2015, which was 46 G. And he's been very vocal that if Behrman's crash would have happened in the likes of Vegas or Baku, it would have been a lot worse and can you explain why well i'll tell you for why when uh it's a great reminder actually on carlos's crash in sochi straight on under the plastic tech bro barriers and the car was completely covered and a lot of concern until they eventually managed to get him out but crashing into tech bro or crashing into tires like we had with ollie berman at the weekend you can imagine it's physically different than crashing into armco or in some cases around street circuits it's a concrete wall they don't give there is no there is nothing that actually takes the energy and dissipates the energy and it's that if a crash happens over a long distance then it looks spectacular but it's actually not too bad on the driver when you have a crash that stops like behrman's crash did thankfully those tires gave him a little bit of energy absorption but if that had been in monaco that would have been a lot higher i'm going to say it could be almost double now someone can call me out on this not knowing the science between metal barriers and plastic but that would have been significantly higher g-force on that type of track yeah and i mean now the fi have come out and said over this break that they're going to be reviewing it but the driver's argument is why is it taking this to happen for it now to be reviewed good point i saw you know lando he was asked you know what he makes of all of this and he said well it doesn't matter what what the drivers think because as long as the fans are enjoying the racing the reporter said you know, no, it's so important, you know, what you think, you're the drivers, and he just said, clearly not.

20:26And the fact that they're at that point where, you know, they've been so vocal, Alonso, Sainz, I mean, all of them, and they've done nothing because the fans are like, well, this is so exciting, you know, the overtaking. It's quite concerning. Yeah, look, what I think is confusing is I don't think, and we had this discussion prior to the season, it's not about how many overtakes, it's not about how many baskets are scored, how many goals. it's the sense of watching something world-class and spectacular and this pass and repass we saw several people overtaking into the chicane much more than we would normally do in previous Grand Prix's there and then sure as they've got a battery then it gets deployed in the start-finish and there was some exciting close moments into the first corner but the overtake's happening you just can't defend against the indefendable so it was always going to be a little bit painful to start with when you deploy a completely new set of regulations.

21:22But over time, it will improve. And we saw the FIA react by changing the harvesting that was allowed during qualifying to reduce the reduction in speed through the high-speed corners. But it's still, I want to see a qualifying lap that makes me go, wow, human being and car on the edge of adhesion everywhere, not on a fantastic, you know, harnessing and deployment lap. Yeah. And people have been asking, were the FIA warned, you know, the new regs again in the spotlight? And I mean, we'll argue they were. They were warned. They have been warned. But, you know, they've changed these regs. They need to stick by them.

22:02It's almost an element of they don't want to give in. They don't want to be proven wrong. But at the cost of someone getting seriously hurt, they've got to hold their hands up. And they've done that with qualifying. But why they didn't then impose that onto the race? Why wouldn't they have done that? Well, what they'll say is if somebody's done a better job, then they shouldn't be penalised by reacting to who's got the loudest voice. There needs to be actual examples of real risk. But we've just had that. You know, motor racing is dangerous. There's no question about it. But this is entering another world of potential offsets and speeds.

22:41That's unnecessary as well. It was always going to be the case when you go into... We have it in Formula E, where when they run out of battery on the last lap, they go into a limp mode and you get massive offsets in the performance of the cars. So it's not like it's come as a big surprise. It's just worrying when it results. And actually, just taking a step back on the Colopinto thing, as he approached out of the hairpin, there was one flash that I could see on the rear wing end plates. And then that was it. There was nothing else that was telling me that he was either harnessing or certainly not deploying.

23:19Now, the point at which Oliver arrived at him and then had to move wide onto the grass, I think there has to be more information. We've got all the technology, even if it's the lights staying on solid or something that really tells you to look out, because that was not a normal accident. or it can only be done in certain places you know yeah not not round a bend not near a corner that's a good point actually you bring up something that i hadn't even thought of until you mentioned it there's certain corners take that one for free i'm taking that and i'm loving it because there are certain corners that almost should be exempt from being able to harness because you're just so used to them you know like up through eau rouge and in belgium one of the most iconic corners in the world there's points where you cannot see as you go over the rise if there's a car on the other side so it should be exempt from being able to harness it I don't know why they would but by way of example you just can't catch people out with a closing speed of 30 40 miles an hour that's just very dangerous I mean we've had this all through Formula One that there's places that you don't overtake because of safety reasons and talking of Suzuka and Alonso I remember when he overtook Schumacher on the on the outside and when he was asked how he knew Schumacher was going to ease off he said something along the lines of well you know he's got a family and and kids at home and and I don't essentially I mean Alonso he didn't he didn't now is a new dad so we'll take this moment to congratulate you but he's been you know calling this overtaking accidental he's not seeing and you know he's a very important voice in Formula One he's 44 he's been there for so long you know he's experienced a lot of changes and I think it comes to a point where the FIA have to not wait for examples.

25:04Look, we're going around in circles here because we clearly both agree on this, and I think most people listening and watching this will agree. They need to take action before action happens. I think the other thing that adds further weight to Fernando Alonso's voice is not just the fact that he's been around Formula One for a long time. He's raced at Le Mans. He's raced at IndyCar in America. He's raced Dakar. he's actually the most experienced and biggest authority as a racing driver probably in the sport and if he's speaking out and he's not speaking out from frustration of he's an uncompetitive car to say the least you know the aston martin's qualified behind cadillac at the weekend right at the very back but he's speaking out because he's a passionate advocate of formula one and competition and i mean briefly touching upon the aston martin that's the first time that a honda powered engine has ever been at the back of the grid obviously in their home race this break probably is an absolute blessing to aston martin and and you know newy's going to be welcoming it in because it gives them time and we've seen other team principals kind of teasing along this break fred vizzer said you know it's going to be a completely different championship after the break and mclaren have been teasing what they're coming back with so it's going to be exciting well it is and they all have their upgrades and the top teams will bring upgrades to every Grand Prix.

26:30What they'll all be hoping though is that their correlation between their wind tunnel or the CFD manufacturing and putting it on track is actually working because sometimes you have a development that tells you you're going to gain three, four tenths and you don't and sometimes you have a small upgrade and suddenly you gain more. It's the black art of Formula One. What was your best ever upgrade? oh best ever upgrade was oh year was it 2003 the mclaren we we raced a b-spec car until magnicore and we're really struggling then brought this virtually a brand new car apart from the chassis and bang we were right back on the pace again and it was like the lights have come on and what team do you think is going to surprise us most when we come back in in five weeks i think ferrari have the potential to do that because they've been there or thereabouts haven't they clearly not quite as quick as Mercedes McLaren had a very strong weekend but it just feels as if Ferrari are on the cusp of something and if they can deliver that then we can see more of Charles and Lewis doing their thing For sure Well thank you for answering the questions and thank you guys for sending your questions in if you do want us to answer your questions make sure to send them over to us uptospeed at global.com and be following us on our socials at uptospeedshow new episodes every Monday and Thursday so like, subscribe and follow so you never miss an episode.

27:53DC will be getting into the big cues for the FIA over this break with Naomi and Will on Thursday's episode so don't miss out on that. What a pleasure it's been this duo. I know, just the two of us. It feels like it's sort of what do you call it? Musical chairs? Yeah. We were four, now we're two. I know. Is it only going to be one next week? No, Thursday's three. Thank goodness. Thursday's three but it's been fun. Thank you. As always. Amazing. Thank you guys so much and we'll see you on Thursday.

28:21This has been a Global Player original production.