In short
The episode is a race-week “Up to Speed” discussion focused on the 24 Hours of Nürburgring (sold out for the first time, with Max Verstappen racing) and the F1 “rumour mill” about whether Oscar Piastri could replace Verstappen at Red Bull.
Guests
Will, Naomi, Jolie, and David (podcast hosts; specific real-world backgrounds aren’t provided in the transcript).
Key claims
Autosport/Roberto Kincarro report Red Bull are interested in signing Piastri if Verstappen leaves; fan reaction is split between McLaren supporters and others; Red Bull’s internal instability (departures like Jean-Pierre Lambiasi) makes the rumour controversial.
Notable examples
Nürburgring “Green Hell” rain/fog anecdotes; comparisons to Schumacher/Hamilton rebuilding teams; discussion that driver salaries aren’t included in the F1 budget cap.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOExcitement for the Nürburgring
0:42 to 1:17
Hosts express anticipation for the upcoming 24 hours of Nürburgring race.
“It's not Formula One, but it is the 24 hours of Nürburgring this weekend.”
Experience at the Nürburgring
1:17 to 2:28
A host shares their personal racing experience and the unique atmosphere of the Nürburgring.
Challenges of Racing in Fog
2:28 to 3:24
Discussion on the difficulties of racing under challenging weather conditions at Nürburgring.
“I'd slept a couple of hours overnight and it was raining and I'd never driven the track in the rain.”
History and Significance of the Nürburgring
3:24 to 4:40
A historical overview of the Nürburgring and its significance in racing.
“Like I get that it is trickier and visibility is limited and there's so many different cars, different speeds, different categories.”
Expectations for the Upcoming Race
4:40 to 5:29
Hosts discuss expectations for the Nürburgring race and the impact of Max Verstappen's participation.
“But yeah, the Nautsch life hasn't been used for Formula One since the 1970s.”
Rumor Mill: Oscar Piastri's Potential Move
5:29 to 7:29
Discussion of rumors surrounding Oscar Piastri possibly moving to Red Bull and the implications.
“But we have other things to discuss today, don't we?”
Fan Reactions and Team Dynamics
7:29 to 8:51
Exploration of fan reactions to the rumors and the dynamics between McLaren and Red Bull.
“Well, some of those departures have actually moved to McLaren.”
Oscar Piastri's Fit in Red Bull
8:51 to 11:20
In-depth analysis of how Oscar Piastri could fit into Red Bull and the team's interest in him.
“Let's, let's park that max chat because, you know, that's, that, that is not in our control and he will make the decision that he'll make.”
Potential Impact of Piastri's Move
11:20 to 13:56
Discussion on what Oscar Piastri's move to Red Bull could mean for his career and the team.
“So the fact that he is on their radar, I don't think should come as any surprise to anybody.”
Oscar Piastri: The Heir to Red Bull?
14:00 to 24:00
Explore the potential of Oscar Piastri as a future star at Red Bull and his comparison to legendary drivers.
“And Red Bull have the factory relationship with Ford.”
Show all 13 chapters
The Mechanics of Driver Salaries and Team Budgets
24:23 to 28:01
Understanding how driver salaries fit within the Formula One budget cap and the implications for teams.
“Mark Banholzer from Park City, Utah here.”
Impact of Budget Cap on Formula One
28:01 to 29:50
Explore how the budget cap has changed team dynamics and spending in F1.
“Well, he could use it because he's still on a very, I mean, he's a very, very good investment for Toto because he's not costing him much at all and he could very well be world champion.”
Nostalgia for F1 Parties and Spending
29:51 to 33:02
A nostalgic look at the extravagant parties and spending in early 2000s F1.
“Like, was there more caviar going around in the hospitalities or what has been the direct impact of this on you?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:02George Russell:This is a Global Player original podcast.
0:05Max Verstappen:I actually could see him in a Red Bull seat.
0:08George Russell:Would Oscar even want to go?
0:10Max Verstappen:See, I see George more in orange, in papaya orange.
0:14Oscar Piastri:Why on earth would you leave the healthiest team on the grid for chaos?
0:19George Russell:Red Bull, I think, are taking Max's threat very seriously.
0:30Oscar Piastri:Up to Speed.
0:35George Russell:It's Will.
0:36Max Verstappen:It's Naomi. It's Jolie.
0:38George Russell:Welcome to Up to Speed.
0:40Max Verstappen:Welcome everybody to another episode. And this one is a race week episode. It's not Formula One, but it is the 24 hours of Nürburgring this weekend. Are you guys excited about it?
0:50Oscar Piastri:I am. I reckon you've got people there for a second thinking, wait, am I missing an F1 race in my calendar? But no, it's going to be a fun one.
0:58Max Verstappen:Because, of course, Max Verstappen is participating in the race and it is sold out for the first time in its history, which I find so difficult to. Well, I don't I believe it, but I find it hard to believe because I'll tell you what, I raced the 24 Hours of Nürburgring in 2018 and I had been around it before prior to that as well. and just the fandom around the 24 hours of Nürburgring is just really unmatched and people camp over a week before the event to make sure they have the best spots around the circuit and whenever you're driving I mean it's it's such a sensory overload experience when you're driving around the Nürburgring because there are fans everywhere barbecuing you can literally smell
1:40Oscar Piastri:things on the grill in the rain they're just having fun yeah and nothing stops them they are
1:46Max Verstappen:partying in the campsite they're barbecuing and they're loving it so i'm surprised that there's more people than i mean obviously this has obviously got to do with the max yeah the max effect but um i've chatted to a few of my friends who are actually also racing and the general sentiment is that they're all very happy that max is there and that he's bringing more attention to gt racing i think there are a few concerns with regards to how many people are going to be attending what that means for the facilities like can they handle that many people um and on top of that there's more cars on track this year and the weather is set to be very challenging so
2:20George Russell:they're worried about plenty shunting really honestly like i remember i did um i did a feature uh show a couple of couple of years ago actually it's probably more than a decade ago now um and we went to the nurburgring got driven around by nico bastian in a mercedes amg something or other and it was thick with fog and chucking down with rain and nico knew the place like the back of his hand and he was just reacting on knowledge of the circuit and then being able to kind of feel how much the tires were just kind of skidding off the line because he knew the track so well full pelt into oblivion because you can't see your hand in front of your face on that circuit the drivers who know that place and know it well i think are a they're a different breed just so special i
3:10Max Verstappen:I remember getting up in the middle of sort of like early morning for my next stint. I'd slept a couple of hours overnight and it was raining and I'd never driven the track in the rain. So I was like, OK, great time for it to rain like during the race when I've never driven this track in the rain before. But honestly, it was so much fun. Like I get that it is trickier and visibility is limited and there's so many different cars, different speeds, different categories. But I had so much fun. The one thing I did not enjoy at all was the fog. because at one point yeah and because the lap is so long the conditions are completely different around the circuit so the back end of the lap like at the end of toting a her which is the really long straight at the end of the lap it was like you couldn't see a thing you couldn't it was like driving into a white wall and that was honestly terrifying then i went around for another lap which takes about in the category i was racing in about nine and a half minutes the fog had completely moved so you didn't know what to expect um but then their red flag did thank goodness.
4:07Oscar Piastri:I was going to say that driving into a white wall, I mean, feeling does not sound safe.
4:12Max Verstappen:You couldn't see the white lines of the track. You couldn't see the next car in front of you. You couldn't see, you couldn't, you could barely make out where you were on track. So I was like, do we keep going? Do I come in? Would that make me look like a pussy?
4:26George Russell:If you've ever been in a, in a, in an aeroplane, when you're going up through the clouds and all you see around you is white, like it's kind of, that can be what it's like at the, at the knowledge life for those who don't know by the way this is the green hell as it's been termed it is a monstrous circuit and probably the the biggest driving and racing challenge anywhere in the world um it's it's it's great they used to race formula one there back in the 1970s until it became well from the 50s actually through to the 70s until it became a bit too dangerous nikki lauda had his famous accident there and they stopped racing there afterwards formula One returned to the shorter circuit later on.
5:08George Russell:But yeah, the Nautsch life hasn't been used for Formula One since the 1970s. Incredible place.
5:14Max Verstappen:It is such an incredible place. And this year it's set to be a very interesting race with Max being on track, with so many fans, with so many drivers on track and tricky conditions. We will, I'm sure, update you guys on our next episode how things went. But we have other things to discuss today, don't we?
5:33George Russell:We do. It's rumour mill in F1 shock.
5:36Oscar Piastri:It is rumour mill.
5:37George Russell:Yes, yes, because, and whilst we're on the topic of Max Verstappen, who seems to be the topic of most discussions this year, there's still the will he, won't he continue in Formula One? Is he happy? Will he go and do something else? Will he move to another team if he's not happy at Red Bull? You know, very often you don't take these things too seriously. But there are certain publications and certain journalists that when they're reported, you sort of have to sit up and take note. And when I see Roberto Kincarro writing about something, he's an Italian journalist, he's been in the paddock for years, very trustworthy, very, very good journalist.
6:13George Russell:And when it's reported on Autosport, which is the Bible of motor racing in the United Kingdom, then you sort of have to give it a decent level of respectability. And they together are reporting that Red Bull are very, very interested in signing Oscar Piastri should Max Verstappen decide to leave. Now, this is interesting for a number of reasons, but the first being that Red Bull, I think, are taking Max's threat very seriously if they are seriously lining up people that they would like to replace him with.
6:50Oscar Piastri:Well, I mean, I think what I found the most interesting from this rumour mill and what's been sparked is the fan reaction online and divide its cause because you've got the core McLaren fans who are targeting Red Bull and saying they're trying to stir, even if Red Bull never had the intention of signing him. The rumour itself, it creates all this pressure. Oscar versus Lando is already a popular topic. People love to add to it. And, you know, everyone knows, it's no secret, that Oscar's less emotionally attached to McLaren than Norris is. So in a target sphere, he's easier to go for. and then you again you've got those core McLaren fans that are like why on earth would you leave the healthiest team on the grid for chaos because if you look at the two teams and you separate them you've got McLaren who currently looks more stable it's got a better culture you know a better long-term project less politics arguably better car development and then you've got Red Bull that right now feels like a post-Max transition team and kind of internally unstable, especially we look at all of the departures.
8:00George Russell:Well, some of those departures have actually moved to McLaren. So I think that's a pretty valid point, Jolie.
8:06Max Verstappen:And, you know, one of those significant figures being Jean-Pierre Lambiasi, Max Verstappen's race engineer, who hasn't left yet, but will be leaving in the next two years. Obviously, we know Christian left and then a whole wave of people left post-Christian. and you know obviously I think whilst we can speculate about whether Max will leave that's one thing and I do think that actually right now there isn't as much reason as I would have thought going into the season for Max to leave I would have thought that maybe the the Red Bull engine wouldn't have been quite as performant as it is but it's actually come out and been quite a good engine so their struggles lean more towards the chassis side and they've been able to sort those kinds of things out in the past.
8:48Max Verstappen:Miami already looked so much better. So let's see, let's see what happens, right? Let's, let's park that max chat because, you know, that's, that, that is not in our control and he will make the decision that he'll make. And there's still a lot of factors that will go into that. But what this does highlight is how highly Red Bull regard Oscar Piastri and, you know, hats off to him because yes, he didn't win the championship last year but he was a very very strong contender and he's such a consistent like sort of like ice cold never really lets his emotions get the best of him and I think that for that reason he's quite a good fit for Red Bull not that that doesn't make him a good fit for McLaren but I actually could see him in a Red Bull seat you know and I think that there is an element of him maybe not wanting to share as much glory with his teammates and that's quite a tough environment when you go head to head constantly with the same person and if there's a slight preference for Lando which some people feel there is then maybe that's why he's got his ears sort of perked up but it's very normal in F1 for teams and drivers to sort of be courting each other for quite a long time yeah I mean on that I think you've said it perfectly there because
9:59Oscar Piastri:again on the fan reaction with Oscar those that are Oscar core fans you know wherever he is whatever team he's with, they're saying, you know, this doesn't look like Red Bull trying to replace Max with a like of Perez, you know, no disrespect there. They see it as, you know, Red Bull trying to clone the Mustapha mentality. People genuinely think that Oscar could be the first driver that arrives at Red Bull, you know, not with that second seat mentality, knows he's going into that number one play. You know, he is unshaken mentally. We've seen it. I mean, he did have a wobble around Baku last season.
10:34Oscar Piastri:But I think when you look at Oscar as a 360 driver, he suits Red Bull.
10:41George Russell:Would Oscar even want to go? Because we're just assuming that Oscar wants to leave McLaren. Oscar might be very, very happy at McLaren. We might have made way too much out of it. He might see that as his best opportunity. But if he doesn't like being a co-joint number one at a team and wants sole number one status, then Red Bull have shown that they're willing to give that to the right driver. Red Bull have had their eyes on Oscar Piastri for years. They've gone on the record as stating that they wish they'd signed him when he was a junior driver. They shouldn't have let him go into the Alpine Academy.
11:13George Russell:They shouldn't have then let McLaren get their hands on him and tear him away from Alpine. They know they missed the bus when it came to Oscar Piastri. So the fact that he is on their radar, I don't think should come as any surprise to anybody. He's one of the most impressive drivers in Formula One. And he's probably the guy that you would want to lead your team. Can he mould a team? Can he push the team in his own direction? Can he make it, you know, in his image? That's something that I don't know. and he's still so young and still so kind of fresh into the world of Formula One. I think that's the only question I have and the only unresolved part of Oscar's persona and his kind of status as a driver.
12:00George Russell:I have no qualms, no concerns over how he drives or his ability to win a world championship. But can he lead? Can he be that magnetic force that ties together a team and pushes them as one in the direction that a great champion like a Lewis or a Michael Schumacher or somebody who turned up at a team and really created help to create a culture at that team? Does he have that? And I don't know.
12:29Max Verstappen:And it's an interesting time for all of this to come up because obviously they've got Isaac Hadjar as Max's teammates at the moment. And I think for the first time in a long time, it does feel like, you know, we're obviously not going to say that Isaac is going to come into Red Bull and immediately be a threat to Max. That's absolutely not the case because Max is such a sensational driver. But it feels like he's a lot closer to Max than any of his predecessors for the first time in a very, very long time. And so since Danny Rick. Exactly. Since a very long time. And so I guess the question is, does this make Oscar most certainly a replacement for Max?
13:08Max Verstappen:Because I know, Will, you sort of toyed with the idea that he could be a teammate to Max. But do you see that happening? Because then... I don't think I do.
13:16George Russell:You want to challenge yourself against the best, don't you? You know, if you're Oscar, I don't think Oscar would shy away from the opportunity to be Max's teammate. And I think he's one of the few who could turn up and actually take it to him. But are you going to get equal status? And I don't think Oscar will want to go somewhere and be told, oh, it's going to be like it was with Lando. You're both going to be number ones. You know what? I've had enough of that. Thanks.
13:38Oscar Piastri:Well, I think he'd like to be Max's teammate, but with a McLaren car. McLaren's car is better than Red Bull's right now. And I don't know if he would take that.
13:50George Russell:But McLaren are, and as they've admitted from the start of this year, it's got better, admittedly, since the start of the season. But McLaren is not a factory team. They're a customer. And Red Bull have the factory relationship with Ford. And that is a very, very powerful pull for a driver to be at a factory team. So I think, you know, that could be shiny, shiny for Oscar as well. And there is that potential to be. And look, it sounds kind of mad, but I mentioned Lewis and I mentioned Michael because they both went to teams that were not performing. And they left great teams, world championship teams, to go somewhere else and ultimately try to rebuild.
Read the full transcript
14:35George Russell:So Michael Schumacher was 1994-1995 world champion with Benetton. And he quit and he moved to Ferrari, who hadn't won a driver's world championship since 1979. And along with Jean-Tot, Ross Braun, a brilliant management team, brilliant design team, They completely turned around the fortunes of Ferrari and set about establishing a period of domination that no one thought would ever be beaten in Formula One history until Lewis Hamilton, already a champion at McLaren, decided he was going to leave one of the strongest, if not the strongest team in the sport and move to Mercedes, who were only recently returned to Formula One.
15:14George Russell:you know were not in any way a consistent challenger for race wins let alone championships hadn't won anything really since the 1950s and he helped change the course of that team and moved them then into the most successful team in the most prolonged period of success that the sport had ever known those two drivers took a risk left the most successful team of the time, went somewhere, built a culture, built a championship winning team and changed the needle. Does Oscar have that Schumacher, Hamilton-esque quality to be able to go and do that? And I find that a fascinating question. Yeah.
15:56Max Verstappen:And I also think that, you know, performance right now, I don't think would be the number one factor for Oscar to be looking at because whilst, yes, Red Bull sort of set off a little bit behind the others. They've closed that gap quite significantly. In fact, Max outqualified both McLarens in Miami for the Grand Prix. But you've also got to look at, you know, their history and how many championships they've won. They're a multi-championship winning business. They know how to win races. They have extremely strong team members in terms of strategy decisions. All the stuff that comes along with becoming a successful racing team, they've got it all.
16:33Max Verstappen:And, you know, the chassis side for them has been the strongest side in the past. So the fact that actually their engine is not their problem. And as Will says, they are a manufacturer. Alex Albin very well explained to Will how much of a difference that makes because the drivers have an input on how the engines are built and how they are attuned to the driver's driving style. So he could possibly maybe not immediately have more success with Red Bull, but maybe in the future have more success because of the fact that they have a bit more control, given it's their own engines.
17:06Oscar Piastri:And I mean, another point to consider in all of this is if it's not Oscar to Red Bull, who else could it be? Because there's the conversations about potentially Leclerc. But my feelings on that is that, you know, pardon the pun, he bleeds red. and you know look like to red bull makes sense on track but i don't think emotionally but then you've also got the russell conversation but for me and again you know what i've taken from the fans online is that russell is someone that has no issue challenging hierarchy and red bull is that team would they want someone that's gonna argue with what they have to say and
17:46George Russell:I think what we've really got to be cognizant of with all of this is that our impression of what Red Bull is as a team and our impression of what Red Bull has as a culture stems from the years of Christian Horner and Helmut Marko. Neither of whom are at the helm of the team anymore. This is a new team under Laurent Mekis that is forging a new path and a new direction. And Laurent is creating a new culture there. So I don't think we can read into the direction of the team or the driver that they might want or the manner in which they will run that team in the way that it was before. I think we've got to view it very much from a new, evolving and emerging culture.
18:35George Russell:Maybe George would be a perfect person for that team. Maybe George and Oscar as teammates might be the perfect duo for that team. You know, clear headed, level headed, quite straightforward. Maybe that maybe that works for them. I don't know.
18:49Max Verstappen:I see George more in orange, in papaya orange. Can you imagine George and Lando's teammates? I mean, again, this is obviously two drivers who expect to be number ones. So, you know, it'll be another head to head. but I don't know for whatever reason I see I see George more so in in Papaya Orange than in I can't
19:09George Russell:I can't picture I don't I don't see him as a Red Bull driver I can't see it but Charles again such
19:16Max Verstappen:a difficult one because you know I had a sit down with him in Miami and we had a long chat and I asked him like are you as invigorated as you were when you first signed up to be a Ferrari driver and I know that it's something that drivers dream of. I mean, before you probably know what Formula One is, you know what a red car is, you know. And so a lot of drivers dream to be a Ferrari driver. He is obviously one and he's been there for a long time now. Actually, he's the driver with the second longest tenure as a driver at Ferrari. Can you believe that? In history. So he's been there very long and he's not necessarily, I think, found the success that he would have wanted to by now.
19:53Max Verstappen:but he was very clear to me that his goal is 100 % still to win a championship with Ferrari so I think again because he's been in Formula One for so long I don't think that he would go anywhere unless the performance was guaranteed otherwise why not just stay at Ferrari so I don't know if Charles would be the one to go there so who could be the person to go there if it's not Oscar what does this just Oli Behrman I know he's a Ferrari junior but I don't think Oli
20:23George Russell:No, I think Red Bull, you know, they have such a pool of drivers, right? And they've usually always gone through their pool of drivers and they've promoted from within. So is there somebody from within that pool of talent that we could see rising up? I think we've spoken about Isaac. I think he's a phenomenal driver. I don't think he's quite ready to lead a team, but he's a brilliant talent. Arvid is showing himself to be supremely gifted in his rookie season. I've always liked Liam. I think Liam is mega. if you look through Liam's career, whatever he's raced in the past, wherever he's gone, he's been brilliant.
20:57George Russell:But I think he got the stuffing knocked out of him last year. So there's... He had his shot.
21:00Max Verstappen:Well, he didn't really though, did he? I think he had somewhat of a shot, but he didn't really get more than a few races. I agree with Will there.
21:08Oscar Piastri:I think his confidence, you know, the mental side of things.
21:12George Russell:I think what you've got to look at here is are any of them ready to lead a team? And they're not. So you have to find someone who is. And so you have to look outside of the Red Bull talent pool at the moment. And when you do, you need to zero in on somebody who is a race winner, could be a championship contender and would be keen to move on. I think Oscar, given the dissatisfaction, given the fact you know there are ripples in the water over there at McLaren, he's an obvious target. It's the most obvious target that you could pass. And the fact that they have stated publicly in the past that they've wanted him.
21:49Max Verstappen:it just makes sense it's also as you say it makes complete sense and the fact that obviously his manager mark webber who yes is not on site as much as he was in the past but he's still very much involved in the background and commercial deals etc um was a red bull driver and so i think that he will totally be talking to oscar about how things operate yes i agree with you will that this is not exactly the same team as it was then but you know i think there's obviously an existing relationship with Mark and Red Bull, that sort of chemistry doesn't really, you know, fade completely. I think there will still be a level of interest from their side to see what could he do there?
22:29Max Verstappen:What relationships can we lean on? How can we put pressure within that team? Because I think that the overriding sentiment last year was that there was a bit of a tug of war internally, potentially at McLaren with the drivers, like the power struggle in the sense that McLaren just left it open with two number one drivers i think that they could pull their weight more heavily um should should max leave and they go to to red bull so more control that's what everyone that's what
22:57George Russell:they all want isn't it zach loves oscar as well though and zach's not going to want to let oscar go so yeah this could be a really key negotiating period for oscar if red bull do come calling and zach wants to hang on to oscar then oscar's going to have the aces in his hand if he wants to you know, renegotiate a new contract that sees him, you know, maybe getting a bit more favoritism at the team. I don't know. I don't know. It's a fascinating period. But I think, you know, when we look at silly season, when we look at contracts and drivers who are most in demand, I don't think there's any now in Formula One that's going to be in higher demand than Oscar Piastri.
23:42George Russell:You know, if we accept that Max is either going to be a Red Bull driver or on his way out, who do you want and who are you aiming for? I think most teams will have their eyes on Oscar Piastri.
23:55Max Verstappen:OK, well, we're going to take a very short break. So whilst we're taking a break, please head over to your social media platforms and give us a follow. We are at Up to Speed Show. We've just hit 50 ,000 subscribers on YouTube. So thank you to all of you who hit subscribe. And for those of you who are watching and aren't subscribed, please, please hit that red button. We will be back in a little moment to answer your questions.
24:22Hello, Will, Naomi, David and Jolie. Mark Banholzer from Park City, Utah here. Just want to thank you for delivering such a fun podcast. I love your insightful and intelligent discussions about Formula One. You've quickly become my favorite F1 podcast. Question for you on the cost cap. If Max were to leave Red Bull, is a Mercedes the only team that could afford his salary to comply with the cost cap? I would think Ferrari and McLaren would have a hard time fitting him in under the cap, given the current salaries they already pay Charles and Lando.
24:58George Russell:Brilliant question, Mark. And thank you so much for sending it in all the way from Utah. So it's actually quite a simple answer to this one, which is that the driver salaries aren't included in the budget cap. So you can spend as much money as you want on on your racing drivers. It's unlimited. The only things that are covered by the budget cap are ostensibly anything that has anything to do with making the car go faster. So your marketing costs aren't included. Your driver's costs aren't included. Actually, the top three management figures who earn the most money, they're not included either in the budget cap.
25:36George Russell:So there's actually there's quite a bit of wiggle room if you're a high earner at an F1 team and the drivers most certainly are.
25:43Max Verstappen:Yeah, the only place that that really applies is in our fantasy leagues, right? There you've got to be really wise with your spending.
25:51George Russell:Very true.
25:51Max Verstappen:Although you still do see across the board very different salaries for the drivers. And Max is the highest paid driver, allegedly. I mean, obviously, these are like speculative figures that we see floating around. But Max seems to be the highest paid, followed by Lewis. And it's such a broad gap between what they earn versus what a Charles Leclerc earns, what a Lando earns. And then there's another gap, obviously, down to the younger, newer F1 drivers who, I think the lowest salary right now is about a million, is it pounds, dollars, euros? I don't know which currency, but it's around that mark.
26:28George Russell:So significant difference to sort of max, which is like 70 million a year. Just a million dollars a year.
26:36Max Verstappen:If only we could just get a tiny slice of that pizza.
26:39Oscar Piastri:Do we think that the teammates know what each other are on? I mean, yes, it doesn't matter for, you know, Isaac to know what Max is on, but for a lander on an Oscar.
26:49Max Verstappen:Yeah, well, you'd be surprised. Also, there's a couple of drivers in the paddock who have the same sort of lawyers helping them in the background with their contract. So even though there is still client confidentiality, exactly. And there's a lot of things that can't be disclosed. I think that there's a general sense by saying, OK, well, we know what this driver is earning, etc. So you can start to lean and put pressure on the teams from that sense. I think the drivers have an idea, maybe not in exact details, but I think they have a clear idea. Also, the numbers are floating around all over the place.
27:25Max Verstappen:So not that hard to figure out.
27:27George Russell:And that we're talking about, you know, base salary there. And, you know, we exist in a time and Formula One has for decades, but especially so today where, you know, the ability to earn on top of your base salary with partnerships and branding deals and, you know, and everything else.
27:43Oscar Piastri:And win bonuses as well. I mean, like the engineers have that and the teams, you know, I know when Red Bull win, they all get a bonus through to their marketing team, to the engineers, through to everything. And that'll be the same for the drivers.
27:57George Russell:Yeah, Kim is the only one that's getting a win bonus at the moment, but he's doing brilliantly.
28:01Max Verstappen:Well, he could use it because he's still on a very, I mean, he's a very, very good investment for Toto because he's not costing him much at all and he could very well be world champion. That would have been a great investment for the season.
28:14Oscar Piastri:Toto and his private equity. He knows what he's doing.
28:18Max Verstappen:Incredible. I can guarantee you his salary won't be the same next year.
28:22George Russell:But it's amazing. I was looking into the budget cap And it had completely passed me by this year that, you know, Formula One was supposed to be bringing down the budget cap and, you know, keeping costs in check. And we'd got down to, you know, just over 130 million. And this year, because of the new regulations, they increased, they almost doubled it. They increased it by 80 million to 215. And you're like, we've literally just doubled the budget cap. It's crazy. That's a wild fluctuation. But no, the driver's salary is not included within that.
28:57Max Verstappen:No.
28:58Oscar Piastri:I mean, and also then given everything we discussed on Monday's episode as well, you know, they could be increasing again for 2027.
29:04Max Verstappen:But again, on Monday's episode, we also discussed how F1 is in such a healthy place. The teams have more money than ever to spend. And so maybe even the smaller teams are able to go that a little bit further with their budgets to still run a competitive organization. That's it.
29:22George Russell:And it's still half of what some of the major teams were spending even 10 years ago. You had your big three spending$400 million,$500 million a season. How much would we be at today if those costs had run unchecked? You're likely looking at, you could be looking at a billion dollars a year for a championship winning team. They had to have the brakes put on them. And it's good that they did.
29:49Max Verstappen:So what's the starkest difference that you've experienced, Will, from that era to where we are now in terms of that budget cap? Like, was there more caviar going around in the hospitalities or what has been the direct impact of this on you?
30:02George Russell:As we know from Red Bull breaking the budget cap in year one, catering is also not included in the budget cap. You can have caviar to your heart's content. I think the biggest thing, honestly, is when it comes down to developments. And again, it's something we talked about on Monday with so much more being developed and tested in the virtual world. You know, if you were a big team in the past, you could take five or six different development routes and explore each of them. Whereas if you were a smaller team, you had to really pick your one developmental path and pray that it worked. And that was why the big teams could just throw things at the cars and scoot off into the distance.
30:53George Russell:And the smaller teams were kind of having to take those very, very piecemeal incremental small steps. So I think the ability for the teams to it's more the ability that the smaller teams had to be really smart with how they use their money. whereas the big teams could just spend frivolously. And so when the budget cap came in, the smaller teams were used to being intelligent with their use of money and their spend and how they aimed their developments. And that's something that the big teams, ironically, had to learn because they could just do whatever they wanted in the past. So I think that's been the biggest change.
31:29Max Verstappen:Yeah, but I want to know, besides what has changed for the sport, what has changed for the feeling of it, like from a human perspective, from your side? Nothing? Oh, what? Not much at all? The budget cap? Yeah. Does that transcend down into the environment or is it purely just on-track performance and bringing the competition closer together?
31:48George Russell:I mean, the spend on lavish things back in the 90s and the 2000s, particularly when I first got into the sport in the early 2000s as a journalist, Naomi, the parties were wild. They were wild. This is the stuff that I'm trying to get into, Will.
32:07Oscar Piastri:It's lucky DC is not here. But this isn't included in the budget cap.
32:11George Russell:Oh, fine. And I think they've used the budget cap to be, oh, budget cap, we can't do the big parties anymore, you know, budget cap. Marketing's not included. Red Bull used to throw, I remember China one year, they built this, they built like a city on the river out of bamboo and it cost them like a million dollars just for like a one-night party. before they started winning races and taking the sport really seriously and winning championships Red Bull threw Sunday night after the Grand Prix the wildest parties my 20s was basically sponsored by Red Bull they were amazing years just brilliant fun I mean Red Bull is such a marketing
32:50Max Verstappen:like Red Bull is a marketing business right that's what they do a marketing machine they're a marketing machine exactly that and so that kind of is very much on brand for them right It's a million dollar bamboo party. That sounds like a good vibe.
33:03Oscar Piastri:That sounds fun.
33:05George Russell:It was like, it was like, but there was unlimited money in those early 2000s for events. And it was usually the tobacco companies or the alcohol brands or whoever that were throwing money at it. But it felt very plentiful. And yet the sport today is far richer and the cars are worth more. And, you know, you look back at the 90s and the 2000s, you know, you were winning championships on under$10 million. so you know the budgets have have exploded um and yet the the spend around the side of it um maybe it's because things cost more now and so you know the parties would be even more expensive i'm too old to party anyway i need early nights and don't worry we're bringing you back onto dc's
33:49Oscar Piastri:yacht for a little comeback yeah well what a nice look back at the past while we spent the first half of the episode speculating about the future.
34:00George Russell:Oh, looking back to the past with old Manuel. Oh,
34:04Oscar Piastri:in my day.
34:05George Russell:Back in my day there was more money for parties. Well,
34:10Oscar Piastri:Will continues his impressions. Make sure you are following us on our socials at Up To Speed Show. If you've got any questions, anything you want to say, email us at uptospeed at global.com and please do leave us a lovely review on Spotify or Apple podcasts. We've got new episodes every Monday and Thursday and we will catch you on Monday.
34:33George Russell:I've become that guy. I was better in my day.
34:39This has been a Global Player original production.
From the publisher
Oscar Piastri is reportedly being targeted by Red Bull as Max Verstappen's replacement if he leaves Formula One.
So is Oscar the best man to lead Red Bull into it's new era? Would a George Russell or Charles Leclerc be a better fit? And why leave the healthiest team on the grid for chaos?
Plus, we get excited about Max Verstappen racing in the 24 Hours of Nurburgring this weekend and answer one of your questions!
Socials & YouTube: @uptospeedshow
Email: uptospeed@global.com
Executive Producer: Adonis Pratsides
Producer: Sophie Penney
Video Content Producer: Daniel Aihie
Social Media Producer: Jasmine Wissart
Head of Video for Podcasts: Samson Falodun
Director of Podcasts: Vicky Etchells