Mid-season, new rules... Has F1 listened?

0:01This is a Global Player Original Podcast.

0:30about what the sport is and has become, but is it what people want?

0:46It's Will. It's Naomi. It's David. It's Jolie. Welcome to Up To Speed. Well, well, well, the gang's all back together. Welcome back, everybody, into the studio. Hey, the gang's all here. Okay, more singing. We've had so much singing before that actually started. Hey, the gang's all here. What's this song? We're gonna swing as one. That was Muhammad Ali, believe it or not. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Not singing it, that was me. Originally, it was Muhammad Ali. Well, listen, Will is extremely jet lagged. Can you tell? So we are dealing with his behaviour today, trying to keep him awake, trying to keep him here with us.

1:21I'm doing anything. Please bear with us while we get through this episode today, Will. Well, it's a thriller, folks. It's about rule changes. It is about rule changes. We've had a lot of requests for the rules to be changed and we can happily let you know that there have been some changes. I think we're probably better off calling them tweaks. Yes. And we are going to dive into all of that today for all of you at home and hopefully provide you with some understanding of what all of that jargon meant. Very techie stuff, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, we were talking about it on our WhatsApp group when they came out and we were all like, what is going on?

1:55And it feels, I feel like I'm back at school. I feel like I'm reading You're not long left school What are you talking about? I forgot you were my teacher Yes But no I hope that within this we can really kind of break it down and I know for fans online I've been reading the comments and people are saying it's almost like a game and there's updates every month and that's how they feel and they've got to re-get up to speed pardon the pun with absolutely everything so we've got some work to do today guys Yeah We need a bit of Will Buxton explains the obvious. Well, the obvious is kind of missing in all of this, isn't it?

2:33Yeah, look, before Will gets into the numbers, could I like to keep it simple? Yeah, I like to focus on hopefully what will be improved racing, less engagement between the engineers and the drivers, and in terms of the drivers being told and prompted from the pit lane what to do out on track to establish the fastest lap time, What they've done is reduce the amount of battery recharging, especially in those qualifying laps, to mean that there'll be more, let's say, consistent deployment across the lap, which hopefully will mean we'll not have, like we saw in Suzuka, where you'll have this big drop in speed as the harvesting is going on ahead of iconic corners that have defined drivers and championships and tracks over the past 70 odd years.

3:24somewhere like a 130R in Suzuka, which was always on the edge of adhesion, which we saw with the drop in like 20, 30 kilometres an hour, even more during the Grand Prix past. And Miami, I don't think it'll be such an issue because there isn't so many fast corners. But when we get further in the year, like Spa, going through A Rouge or going through Beckett's at Silverstone, hopefully will, when you give us numbers now, that will be not such an issue. First, I think first thing that I've got to say with all of this is that, you know, there was a lot of talk that changes weren't going to come immediately because we're facing two sprint races coming up.

4:00Would it be better to wait until the sprint races had passed? Even, you know, getting past a race weekend like Monaco, would it be better to wait until they've done? I've got to take my hat off, honestly, to Formula One, to the FIA, to the teams, to the drivers, that they've actually gone through this process rapidly. And they've listened clearly to what the fans are saying, to the teams, to the drivers, and they've rung the changes immediately. Because I think we've quite fairly given the new rules a bit of a hard time, but you've also got to then come out and be fair and say, well, they've acted.

4:35You know, they could have just time wisely. Yeah, they could have stuck their head in the sand and gone, numbers are great. Everything's brilliant. We've got loads of passes on track. What are you talking about? It's great. But they haven't. They've listened. They've worked together. All the stakeholders have come on board and said, yeah, let's make some changes. Essentially, your voice hasn't gone to waste, Will. They heard you speak. I don't think I had anything to do with that. So essentially, the areas they've wanted to address are exactly what DC was talking about. So the recharging has been reduced from 8 megajoules to 7 megajoules.

5:05Why is that important? Because basically when you have a smaller glass to fill, you can fill it up faster than the larger glass. And that is essentially what they're doing with the battery. The amount of recovery power has been increased to 350 kilowatts, which means there will be less lifting and coasting. Because before it would hit it at, I think, 250. So now that has gone up. So you're not going to have to be hitting that limiter. There's a higher threshold. so you won't be hitting that limiter boost and this is important from what you guys were discussing with ollie bearman for the the overspeed that has been capped at 150 kilowatts which should reduce that over speed between competing cars there's also a sort of a safety system that's been put in with the mg uk so the the kinetic energy recovery system which will kick in at race starts if the guys don't get quite such a clean start off the line so all of those things brought in for safety to improve the show and ultimately will it lead to slightly slower lap times yes possibly by maybe a second is anyone really going to notice no but what we will notice theoretically and hopefully is drivers back on the edge pushing to the max and us not reaching a place where we hear them having to lift off or the super clipping or as we saw with ollie in in suzuka a situation where there's just a ludicrous difference in in speed between between the drivers it's very much what toto wolf hoped for and and explained before that the rules haven't been hit with a sledgehammer they've been neatly finessed with a scalpel well what's going to be interesting to see is and i think in miami we won't necessarily see the results of these changes because of the nature of the racetrack there a lot of slow and medium speed corners there isn't really anything big and meaty that you know an iconic section of corners where you go wow i really saw the driver or the car do something special so i think we have to give it a few races but i do think it will make a difference there's no question about it and and it takes us it may reduce some of the on track overtakes that some people have got excited about but is is a reduction in power when someone else has got the boost available because they were in the right place on the track at the point that they picked up that trigger that enabled them to have the boost.

7:32Is that really an overtake? You know, it's a power surge, isn't it? It's an increase in power. So I think we may see less of those on-track overtakes, but they'll be more meaningful. It'll be more about the driver positioning the car, trying to pick up that slipstream. Yes, you're still going to have an element of boost, but that's effectively what DRS was in the previous years as well. So I'm optimistic. my overriding sentiment is still though that it like pedal to the metal like what about you know like all this management is still to me like doesn't feel like what motorsport should be and i get that this is the nature of the way the world in which is going the way the automotive industry is going and so therefore here we are yes the teams have come together all the stakeholders have come together they've actually involved the drivers and solicited their opinions quite heavily in order to get to where we are in these changes.

8:23So I'm sure that the best effort has been put in place to make as much change that can be done in this five-week period. But I think that there's probably still further tweaking that's going to be necessary. And as you mentioned, there's also a lot of the nature of what we're seeing being track-specific. So whilst we're not going to see some of those major corners in Miami, Miami is also a circuit that lends itself to recharge because there are so many heavy braking zones. So maybe some of those defaults will look a lot better than what they actually are. And then further down the line, we will start to see more pains in the situation again.

8:56So I think, you know, hats off to them, as you say, to have reacted so quickly and to have done something because they could have buried their head in the sand and gone, you know what, it is what it is. We're going to deal with it for a year and then we'll take a view. They haven't done that. But yeah, I'd like to see it on track. It's also going to be so interesting, the teams bringing new upgrades after this huge break and that on top of it on a sprint weekend for them to have to like decipher all of this is going to be really interesting. Can I ask, how do we think that the drivers feel? Because when we spoke to Oli last week, he mentioned that he wanted to get rid of Lifting Coast.

9:26It's almost like he knew. I wonder if he did know it ahead of the game. That would make sense. Yeah. But do we think, you know, signs, especially he's been so vocal, do we think they now feel satisfied? Obviously, time will tell. We have to wait to see what we see at the actual races. I think what's key is they've been listened to. And from what I understand from Formula One, this is going to be a collaborative process going forward as well. and so you know let's see how the next few races work out and will they need to ring some changes later in the year i think the good news is is they're not averse to that and they've shown that they're not averse to that but there is an element and Naomi you bring it up of how much of this being a pandora's box that has been opened and you can't put what has left that box back in this is this is what we have now and and you're basically just tinkering with a formula that is imperfect and that is not what people had had come to expect from from formula one um how much can you manipulate that within the confines of of what you have and that's really tough i mean i think also i don't know how much thought and look i don't know has gone into to the fans of the sport as well because of course you're going to have your super mega fans that really love these in-depth details that are happy to spend all this time relearning but you know your average fan isn't going to want to sit and do all of this research, relearn the rules, relearn the changes, the tweaks, everything that's going on.

10:50So do we think this could affect viewership and the wider sport? You could argue any conversation is because the people are passionate, people are interested, and it may draw other fans in. So I don't think this has been bad for Formula One, the fact that there's been sort of a very vocal reaction to new regulations. Let's remind ourselves, we came off the back of some brilliantly close Formula One racing the last few years. And thanks to Will and his vision of drive to survive, the sport's been growing over the last several years. Solely me. Yeah, absolutely. So I think the sport is in a great place and loving the fact that they're reacting to what is a massive regulation change.

11:33And we will find out in the coming weeks whether it's enough or not. I suspect it will still be a wee bit more coming up. But I think that the key thing when you talk about whether the drivers knew i know one thing and we know because we reached out to lando earlier before we came in to record he's in the simulator now yeah he's there he sent us a photograph with him in the car you know in the simulator car with his helmet on going to talk right now we're not in a group chat yeah but we were all together when we called him and he's now driving miami with this new set of regulations trying to understand how can i exploit the potential how can i get a situation where I'm going to bring back the gap that Mercedes had in the first three races so I can get back on the podium and get back on the winner's circle.

12:18I do think that the fact that a lot of drivers have come out this year so far and said that this is really complex and it's complex for us and it's complex for the engineers should make everybody feel better if this is not all very clear to them. Everybody's learning what's going on. It is difficult. And I do think that there's a lot of very technical jargon. If they could just simplify some of the terminology, this is actually not as complex as it seems on the surface. I mean, when I saw that release from the FIA yesterday, I was going, whoa, what's this? Let me read this four times before it actually settles in.

12:50But once you get an understanding of it, it's actually not that complex. So I think we need to be doing ourselves all a favor in trying to simplify these things because you're right, Jolie, like F1 have made it such a priority of theirs to be in new spaces, bring on board new fans, like, you know, open up the ceiling to who's allowed to watch Formula One and who's understanding it. And unfortunately, the start of the season has been very complex. And therefore, maybe, you know, it makes some of that audience shy away. But I'm sure that they, as much as they say they want to be a part of the wider zeitgeist in the world of culture and lifestyle and all of that, they understand that they need to simplify this.

13:26And this is just one step in that direction. The problem is going to be how it's referred to from Miami onwards, because obviously we've had these rule changes that are going to need to be explained. then how much of the weekend on the broadcast is spent explaining these how much of the racing action is still spent explaining it might be a season long you know i know which will seem short in time but but as you say if you're if you've pitched yourself as entertainment and you're in that social media or entertainment this sort of zeitgeisty moment we know formula one is inherently technical always has been but if all of the conversation is about the technical aspect rather than the racing aspect and it's it's getting that balance right and as you say Naomi when you boil it down it's not as technical as it seems so I think we've got to find a way in which we can get back to enthusing about the joy of racing and and not having to and unfortunately we have to at the moment because the technology is so fresh boiling everything down to batteries charging lifting coasting um you know deployment is it an overtake or is it just a lack of power like all those nuances and get back to what is what is raw and pure which is why we all love the sport which is racing i have to say i think if you actually go back and listen to the commentary and the broadcast pre drive to survive it's a world apart from what it is now and i think that's what the broadcasts have done so brilliantly they've understood that there is a completely new fan base so i definitely agree with you and i think we're all in alignment that everything kind of needs to be stripped back and however on stripping it back whilst there is a new audience there is still the traditional formula one audience that have been here for a very long time that is still the most committed demographic in the audience so you've got to find a balance in catering to that audience but also catering to some people who are new who tune in three or four times a year and you want to convert that into a diehard fan and that's a difficult balance to strike when you've got something that even for us is like software in our brains that's struggling to load you know yeah it is complex and i think part of the the complexity is the terminology because even though I've grown up in this technology business, I'm a fan at heart.

15:53I want to see racing. I don't mind how the driver exploits the machine because that's forever been the case in motor racing. As you well know, Naomi, if you get in karting, you get a better engine. It makes your life a hell of a lot easier. So you're always looking for that technological edge over your competitors. But I think just taking a step back and with Ollie in mind, one of the conversations that you shared with him was the danger aspects. And I think what accelerated this change from Miami was his near miss with Colopinto. He still ended up having the crash himself, but it could have been a way bigger accident had he had contact with the back of the car.

16:29So I think we can absolutely agree in reducing the potential closing speeds that comes from the boost and other elements of some of the regulation change. We've got to agree on the face of it that makes it safer. Yeah. And as well as that is also the start procedure, which we also had that near miss with with Lawson in Australia. That was a big potential, you know, for something we don't want to see happen ever. So we've got that change to the start procedure. Well, not the procedure, but the actual start itself. And what I'm calling is like a super anti-stall, I guess. It's like a super anti-stall.

17:06Do you think Ferrari would have been frustrated about that? Yes. Oh, sure. Because they had an advantage. I think Kimi will be happy. everybody's signed up to it you know everybody's agreed that these are the changes they need to bring in and you know is it is it big glam you know changes no but they're necessary we think it's enough though time will tell you know at least they've done i i applaud them for for doing it so swiftly you know because because we know in motor racing particularly in formula one change happens at glacial speeds yeah and they can't get them to agree you can't get them to agree.

17:42It's like the four of us. Well, Turkey, you know, Turkeys don't vote for Christmas and, and no Formula One team is going to vote to have their advantage taken away from them. And yet they have all agreed to these, these changes. I also think that we've got this wonderful combination of Oli's, you know, near miss of like a really serious accident, as well as this five week break is like the odds of those two things coming together to give them this opportunity to make those changes is also like a strike of luck. And so they've made the changes that they've made. But I do think that there's probably still going to be room for change.

18:13As Will said, there's only time will tell. We've only had three races this season so far. Miami is going to be a sprint weekend. As we said, there's a lot of track specific elements to these regulations as well. So we've got to get a wider batch of data and proof of what these regulations can do before we make a conclusion on whether it's enough. I'm pretty sure that there's still going to be other things to iron out. But as you said, on a Pandora's box element, when do they shut the box on like this is enough now? And are teams going to push for more change that benefit them solely? Yeah, well, I know one thing.

18:46One person who will be the ultimate gauge as to whether it's enough will be Max Verstappen. Because he doesn't pander to anyone. You know, I know that Formula One would prefer that he wasn't so vocal in his dislike of the current regulations. So let's wait and see what he has to say after Miami. I mean, I don't think, you know, of course, every driver wants to be in the best car because that gives you the best chance of winning. But I do think that Max is mature enough in his career with his four titles to go, actually, this now feels like my Formula One. So if he is calmer in the coming races, and I think we can assume he's going to be around for a little while.

19:23If he's still dissatisfied and it is genuinely beyond his whatever lack of performance the team may have, then he may choose to step away at some point. Because he has been out in this break from Formula One. He's been out racing and practicing in his GT3 cars. I mean, we talk about the Pandora's box and what this season has done. And maybe this is a topic for another podcast, but I think there is a wider question here of whether motorsport in general and car culture has gone down a path that it is now regretting. It has been moved by the OEMs, by the major engine manufacturers, into adopting hybridization.

20:05There appears to be globally now a push back against pure electrification. You know, are we at a point where the engine manufacturers have determined so much about what the sport is and has become? But is it what people want anymore? And is it even the direction in which the motor manufacturers are still pushing? We've used the word soul searching before, because I don't think there's anybody who loves racing who wouldn't love to see a return to a V8, V10, even a V6. Run the thing on sustainable fuel. Sebastian Vettel has proved with his show runs over recent years, taking historic F1 cars and running it on sustainable fuel, that it is possible to do it.

20:50Maintain your green credentials, but give people a fire-breathing, screaming, spitting engine that terrifies and makes the drivers heroes, that still pumps out 1 ,000 horsepower, power-to-weight ratio, you know, that makes the cars light and nimble. What's that saying? You can sell ice to an Eskimo. That is you. No, but your passion is absolutely there. And actually, you know, what was really a great memory for me is... Do you have any memories left? I have a lot of great memories. I just don't remember the sort of periphery of the detail. You've got loads of memories, you just don't remember them.

21:24I just don't remember. But Naomi, you've got a young child, six months old. At a certain point, your son will hear a car and it will be something that's got a lot of noise and his eyes will open and he'll be drawn to it because there's something. He's already heard that with the Parisian truck, the bin collecting trucks every day. What was that? And they all think, oh no, my bank balance if he wants to go into this. I was going to say the great thing about children, they're not swayed by politics. They're not swayed by this is the right thing. They just give you a truth of what raw emotion is.

22:02the joy of mobility when they first get a little scooter or they first get a pedal car the joy of the noise that comes from uh you know a high performance vehicle but you know just to come to your point will of have we gone down a track which motorsport may or may not be happy with i think the cross point is maybe one or two years from now where we'll get that answer and that's where the next generation of formula e car which is going to be four-wheel drive yes It's going to have horsepower levels that are right up there with, I think, a Formula 2 car. And therefore, the power to weight is going to start becoming quite impressive.

22:40If they put slicks and downforce on that, we'll be dealing with some serious lap times. Now, the distance capability is still not going to be there. But for an hour of entertainment, if it's fast, then people might go, well, that's enough for us. Or they may not. They may go, that's awesome. But where's the noise? I know one thing. Formula 1. It reminds me of the movie Rocky in Apollo Creed when Rocky's there training him. And he's going, you're going to get hurt. And he's going, no, I won't. I'm too strong. You know, Formula One will bounce back if it's in that situation because it just won't allow itself to fail.

23:13And you know who always comes out on top? Adrian. I have to say, I do love it, DC. Whenever you are talking directly about F1, your face lights up like a Christmas tree. You've never lost that love for it, which is so nice to see. He's just got a red undertone. I don't know. I think it's got to do with Christmas. Well, we will be right back after this break to talk more about safety. But in the meantime, make sure you are following us on socials at UpToSpeedShow. Comment, subscribe, leave a lovely review. And we will see you very shortly.

23:52We've been speaking about safety. And we all saw over the weekend the tragic news that racing driver Juhar Mettenen died after a seven-car crash at the qualifiers for the Nürburgring 24. Our thoughts are naturally with his family and his friends. Guys, I saw a quote from Ari Vatanen, former FIA World Rally Championship champion, heavily involved in the politics of motorsport for a long, long time. And I think he summed it up really nicely. He said he didn't know Juhar. motorsport wasn't Juha's profession, it was his passion. And that he died doing something that he absolutely loved and that that is a beautiful legacy and something to be remembered for.

24:34But I think what it also does for all of us and for fans especially who may have been interested in that race because Max Verstappen was taking part in it is act as a somber reminder of the dangers that are naturally inherent with motorsport. Or something that you guys, you know, had to face week in, week out when you strapped on the helmet and strapped yourself into a car? Yeah, look, this happens ever so often in motorsport. And it is always like, you know, a cold shower, a reminder that, you know, whilst we know when you get in the cockpit that you are putting your life on the line, it's something that you like to just switch off and never think about.

25:15because if you think about it, you can never go to the limit and sometimes past it. But it does happen every so often that we lose a driver. And a little bit like you say that this is something that brings everybody together. It's very easy to see yourself or someone you know or even harder for you, probably DC. You've got a son who's racing, your child in that position. And it's something we never, ever want to see in motorsport. And safety, thankfully, has gone so, so, so far. And these are most of the time now freak accidents. It doesn't happen so often, thank goodness. But when it does happen, it's a big reminder, as you say to everybody, that we put our lives on the line when we go out there.

25:51And that's why we want motorsport to be something that we love, something that the audience loves, and that it makes it all worth it for everybody at the end of the day. Because when you get in that cockpit, you might never come back. As you know, my very career started through the loss of one of the greatest drivers of that generation, if not the greatest. so at 23 I was there having a reminder of all of the dangers that you've expressed and you get in a cart you know there's a real risk that something can happen and tragically we do occasionally have fatalities in karting and all the way through the history of motorsport through life ladies and gentlemen it's part of it but where I sit in on all of this and I love that quote that you you The pleasure that you derive from putting yourself on the edge of adhesion outweighs any of the potential downside, which is why I'm so passionate that we find ourselves in a set of regulations now going forward in Formula One, that the drivers will have that adrenaline rush of at very high speed being on the edge of adhesion, because that's the moment you feel alive.

27:04doing a fast 60 mile an hour hairpin corner gives you lap time but there's no real consequence if it if you crash at that that speed so i'm a firm believer we we need that adrenaline rush the danger the uncertainty to really appreciate the pleasure of driving a race car and and i told you in a previous podcast that i tried to share with my mother when i had a crash where I was knocked out, that I didn't want her to fear for me if I was killed in a race car, in the same way that we should celebrate the life of those tragic leaders that have lost theirs. But I truly believe up until the point where their journey ended, they were living their best life, loving the moment.

27:49And if you're lucky enough to live your life that way, then you're a truly lucky person. There is a question that I know a lot of fans are going to be asking now, and it's something to pitch to you guys as racing drivers. So having seen the dangers that the Norge life represents, and obviously this is a track that used to be on the F1 calendar. It was taken away from the F1 calendar because it was very dangerous. But that was back in the 1970s. Safety standards have improved there. What happened at the weekend, obviously, you know, a terrible, tragic accident. Do Red Bull stop Max from competing in this race?

28:23Now, Naomi, you know the track, you know the championship. um you know will max still be permitted to to race at that circuit will they be having a rethink about that i wanted to say that this is not exclusive to the nordschleife like it obviously is a really dangerous circuit it's a very you know dangerous race because there are so many different categories this like speed delta that we're talking about in f1 is far greater on the nurberg ring with all the different categories that they've got there the speed delta obviously being the gap and difference in speed from one car to another. You know, you've got like your likes of a BMW M3 versus, you know, max driving in, you know, a leading car.

29:02Some of the R8s out there at the front of GT3 cars. It's the speed difference is massive. The track is extremely narrow. There's barely any runoff area, a lot of blind corners. So like there's a lot of factors in there that make it even more difficult. But yes, an F1 car is potentially safer. And we've seen incredibly dangerous accidents. I mean, even if you think back a couple of years back to Roman Grosjean's accident and the fact that he managed to walk out of that cockpit, it's just like blew my mind that he came out of that car. So, yes, it's safer. But can you stop him from doing what he wants to do?