Q&A: How much does it really cost to make it to F1?

0:01This is a Global Player Original Podcast.

0:30more about money and less about talent. You're rocking up to a gun war with a spoon.

0:48It's Naomi. It's David. It's Jolie. Welcome to Up to Speed. Well, hello everybody. I hope that you all enjoyed our episode with Ali Behrman in studio. And actually, DC, welcome back. What did you make of that episode? Yeah, I loved it. I loved how open he is, how chilled he is about the fact that he's starting this incredible journey as a Formula One driver. Relatively inexperienced still, but I think as you mentioned there, he's showing all the signs of being a team leader. So I'm actually looking forward to most doing a little ride with him and you guys here getting on the bicycles. The only issue is we've got to get Jolie up to speed with the terminology around what cyclists wear.

1:29Like stabilizers. Can I please caveat? I can ride a bike. I'm one of those like, I don't understand all the gear, but I will have all the gear, no idea. One of them, like best rest I'm going to go for, but I'm not sure that I'm going to be the best. I think you'll give us a lot of great energy and that's going to be more important than your cycling skills. We'll get you a tricycle. I'll do the singing. Me and Naomi will be there in like some cute co-op. DC will be there in a navy top. Shocked. Yes. And Will will be there in Psycho Bunny, no matter what. But no, it was so lovely chatting to Ollie.

2:07And I think Naomi and I went to love a little bit when he was like, I need to be more media trained. And we were like, no, please, you know, stay you, stay super authentic. And I think one thing that we loved that he touched upon and we really want to talk about in today's episode is, you know, know his relationship with his dad and how much that means to him and then talk about I guess you know family within the F1 paddock is a whole story in itself and fan of the show Chris Mount has sent in a question for us to answer. The one question I've got for you is about why he's always F1 look like bring your dad to work day ever since I can remember they've had dads in the paddock and chatting to the bosses and getting involved with contract negotiations I work in financial services And if I took my mum to work with me on a regular basis, questions would be asked.

2:53So what is the attraction, I suppose, of parents having to be so close to the action? I'm aware of obviously the dangers of the sport and stuff like that and how they want to be supportive. But it's their job. And I don't know if I want my parents hanging around when I'm trying to do my nine to five. So that's the question. Keep up the great work. Been listening since, like I said, the first one and we'll continue to do so. Yeah, look, I think from my point of view, and I'm sure it would be the same for you and Naomi when you were coming up through karting, without your family there every step of the way, it would be impossible.

3:27Unless you've got an uncle or an aunt who has that passion and takes you away on the weekends, you need a commitment from your family. And I have an older brother who didn't want to race. And up until a certain point, he was sort of dragged to the kart track until he got old enough where he didn't have to go. It wasn't that he was against motor racing. You know, he's one of my biggest supporters throughout my career. But it just, it wasn't his passion. And therefore, he didn't want to do it. He, you know, he loved two wheels and various other things. So you need that family support all the way.

4:00But one thing that stood out, actually, when I was listening to your discussion with him, I remember the first time I was testing a Formula One car. So I'd won the Autosport Young Driver of the Year Award based on my performances in 1989. you you girls have got no idea what the 80s were like but anyway so i uh got the opportunity to drive airton senna get harbergers mclaren v12 honda at silverstone in 1990 early 1990 and i phoned my parents because i was living in milton keynes with a bunch of mechanics paul stewart racing and i said i'm going to be testing next tuesday at silverstone and i said when are you going to come down are you coming down that morning are you flying down or driving down the night before.

4:44And my father said, son, they're testing you. They're not testing us. Go there. Try not to crash. Call us afterwards. So I turned up to drive a Formula One car the very first time on my own. There was no managers, no trainers, no psychologists and all the good things. I'm not putting those people down. Of course not. But it was just a different era. I turned up. Dave Ryan was the team manager at McLaren at the time, and he introduced me to the engineers. I was already fitted in the car at Woking, but I jumped in and did my laps and thought it was incredible. Rocket ship, went home because I had to go home and use a landline to phone them because I didn't have a mobile, and said how amazing it was.

5:29So it's a different world now. Now, my parents were there at my first Grand Prix. They were there at my first victory. they weren't there at my last race because I actually thought my last race was going to be 2004 Brazil when I was racing for McLaren and then after the very final race I signed a contract with Red Bull which went on for another four seasons so they'd been to Brazil once I was like do you want to come to my last race I'm like yeah we were there at the last last race that's enough they were like is this is this another dress rehearsal David or is this the real deal Exactly. So I saw last week that Dorianne Pinn, who was the 2025 F1 Academy champion, had her first go in an F1 car.

6:12Big congratulations to her. But, you know, the masses of people that were there from, you know, the Mercedes team itself to her family. As you said, times are so different. I mean, Naomi, what was it like with you, with your family? Yeah, look, I think every driver's got a different story. But I think as David correctly pointed out is that at the heart of it, at the beginning, you need that support from your parents, from your family. And it's not just, you know, we talk a lot about racing dads. In some cases, they are moms like Isaac Hadjah's mom's his manager, which, you know, is more of an anomaly.

6:43But it is really a family initiative. I mean, my dad obviously was really passionate about motorsport. If he wouldn't have been there to support me and also say like, yes, let's do this, I wouldn't be where I am today. And he used to, you know, get up with me at the crack of dawn, take me to the racetrack, be there all day. In the beginning, he was actually like my mechanic, my coach, like you name it. Obviously, eventually, a little bit like Ollie was saying, you know, my experience surpassed what he'd done. And we also kind of just needed someone else to be the coach because you take that home with you as well.

7:14And that was getting to be a tricky dynamic. But it's not just the dads. Like the dads obviously put a lot into it as well. But it's also the whole family. Like my mom used to rock up to every race weekend, which there were so many of them with the lunchbox. You know, she'd be washing my race suits at home, making sure everything was ready. Like it takes the whole my sister who didn't like motorsport, who is listening to this podcast, by the way. And she used to have to spend her weekends at the racetrack as well during her teenage years, which is not what she wanted to do. So, you know, the whole family really does commit to this dream that you have.

7:45and that's why when they get to F1 and if you can get to F1, of course you're going to bring your parents to work. I know there's a lot of debate around whether it's normal to bring your parents, but yeah, you kind of in a sense owe it to them, but also you've gotten so used to having them there and you want to have someone to share those moments with, as David said. Can I just share something with you from back in my time as well? So my parents were definitely my first Grand Prix and they came to a few races a year. They didn't come to all of them because they had a business to run, flying around, you know, not easy and expensive and all the rest of it.

8:18But also my generation, you got three passes. You had your own pass and you had two other passes and that was it. Getting another pass was like, you know, forget asking the team because they were all allocated, you know, under the Bernie regime. And there was a guy called Pasquale Lutantendi or something, I can't say his second name, who controlled the passes. And I'm going to give you an example of how kind of militant it was in those years. British Grand Prix, I had my trainer who had one of my passes and my girlfriend at that time had the other pass. So I wrote to Bernie's office to ask for a pass from my mum and dad.

9:02Pasquale, who was always a person that responded, came back and said, I'll give you one pass with both their pictures on it. and I went to see him and I said Pasquale my mom and dad hold hands everywhere they go and and they're my father's 81 my mom's 79 they're exactly the same today right they are they are the perfect kind of married couple you know I've I've failed in emulating what they've achieved hopefully now I've got it right but anyway and I said Pasquale I cannot say to my mom and dad one of you can come in and then when they're finished the other one can come in I said either you know either both come in or I'll just politely say thank you for trying and he was like the whole Italian uh David it's so difficult so difficult you know blah blah bullshit bullshit anyway eventually he he gave me two passes but you were made to really feel bad to get them and that was Formula One in that era thankfully Formula One in this era is a lot more sensible a lot more you know is is anyone doing something bad in the paddock, if they're not doing something bad, then if it's a family member, if it's a sponsor that's helped you on the way up, they have to be recognised.

10:15Formula One's the pinnacle and we all aspire to it and it shouldn't be open to everyone in the same way that members clubs, which Formula One is kind of like a members club, no one has the right just to go everywhere, but there has to be a sensible pill, which thankfully under Liberty, under Stefano, that sensible pill has been swallowed. Yeah. There was a period when I'd already stepped out of the car. It was in the commentary box. And Jensen and Lewis, their fathers would be there quite often. A couple of other dads as well. And there would be times in a qualifying lap and they would cut away from the qualifying lap to the dad in the garage staring at the screens.

10:54And I used to get a bit frustrated, which I guess is where the question's coming from. because I loved John Button and of course Lewis, his father is still very much with us and a great guy and really understands what it is to work his socks off to help bring a child through karting to get them that opportunity. But I think the point is if you've tuned in to watch motor racing, that's probably what you want to see. So I think that's a reflection of sometimes we might be cutting too often to what's happening in the back of the garage. I guess it just comes down to the director ultimately, because they've got, I don't know, how many camera angles to choose from.

11:35And I suppose it's what they think is representing the sport of Formula One. So I think as long as it avoids ever taking away from a really cool piece of action on track, then maybe it should be a reactive face rather than a during the show phase. Does that make sense? Yeah, it totally makes sense. And I think as much as the cameras are going to try to maybe hide them, like the fact of the matter is a racing dad is a special breed. And yeah, I mean, it's hard to tell them to stay home. Obviously, as DC says, there's something we can do with the programming that might make it look less like the dads are present.

12:10But the fact of the matter is the dads are going to be present and some family members. But you can't blame them. I mean, as I said, you know, my if we take my dad as an example, you know, my dad ran his business into the ground trying to pay for me to go racing and eventually ended up taking a second loan on his home to make me go racing. So you can't then turn around when you get to the top and be like, you know what, dad, like we've made it now. Please stay home. Like they've worked their asses off and they've paid, you know, they've bled sweat, tears, all of it and spent all of their money to get you to there to some extent.

12:45so you've got to pay that back by bringing them there to be there for the bit that they worked so hard for as well but I do also think that there's a degree of separation that needs to be there between drivers because at some point you've also got to cut off what do we call it the umbilical cord cut off the umbilical cord that's the one um and kind of let the drivers do their thing because I think there's also some dads that are still a little bit too hands-on and some that understand like Oli was describing his dad very much knows that his lane now is to just be his dad and be his support system whereas other dads who've been on the journey who understand the sport very technically want to be heavily involved in what's happening with setup and engineering debriefs and all of that stuff and I think it adds additional pressure to the driver and doesn't add doesn't allow for you know constructive work between the team and the driver so there's definitely work and management behind the scenes that the teams have to have with some drivers and their dads now moving on to our next listener question and thanks so much for sending these in guys keep them coming zoe on tiktok asked of the current f1 drivers whose families get most involved is it the younger ones i mean laurence stroll dot dot dot yeah well shall we start by explaining laurence stroll's unique relationship um obviously his dad owns a large percentage the majority percentage, if that's correct, of Aston Martin.

14:08What can we imagine that's like for Lance? Well, I have this simple belief that you don't know what you don't know. So therefore, I think if you're born into a royal family, you don't consider that as a young child. You'll become aware of it as you gain maturity, and then you'll make your choice as to whether you accept it or you don't. And as we've seen by their own British royal family, some are more accepting than others. but therefore I think that for Lance, he just happens to be the result of a relationship between his parents, that his father's incredibly successful businessman and has many notable business wins, and he's passionate about motor racing, and his son has had an incredible amount of success through the lower formulas.

14:57It's only Formula One where I don't think he's won. So, you know, his dad saw a business opportunity and he's grown that into what is, when you consider the valuations of Formula One now, I've got to imagine that the growth on the Formula One team must be more than repaying everything he's invested all the way through karting and the lower formulas. The road car side of things, probably less so because the sheer price of Aston Martin has been tanking. But yeah, business meets pleasure. I think we can consider that one. I think it's tricky for the parents also who maybe have raced before and who like know the sport so well in and out to not be hands-on.

15:37I mean, how would you be able to take a step back when it's your child and this thing that you're so passionate about, the sport that you're so passionate about to take a step back? I think the only dad who manages to do that, who has that great knowledge of the sport, but also is a father of an F1 driver is Carlos Sainz Sr. I think he manages it really well to kind of let his kid do his thing. But yeah, there's a lot of dads who are hands-on. obviously Joss is very hands-on I think even Kimi Antonelli's dad Marco Antonelli is very hands-on I don't know DC what have you what have you noticed who are the dads that are the most hands-on in your opinion yeah I think you've highlighted it there I think that as when we go to Joss and Max as Max's career about 10 years in now then you know Joss is still there at quite a few Grands Prix's but he's also busy doing his own racing and rallying I think he won the championship last year.

16:29So I think it's always about you want to kind of guide as best you can in those formative years. But there'll be a point, we saw it with Lewis, you know, Lewis and his dad were inseparable. And then there was a separation at a certain point. And I don't claim to be privy to the details, but there was a definite parting of the ways and a cooling of the relationship for a period of time. You're never going to be a family's family, you'll love them, you know, till the end. But the relationship changed and Lewis felt, I assume that he needed that break to discover really who he was. And we've seen various evolutions of Lewis during his journey growing up in the public eye, which is what these drivers do.

17:08I suspect we'll see something similar with Kimi. I guess he still lives at home with his parents. So has he ever put on a washing machine and done his ironing? I'm not saying that makes you a man or a woman, but there's certain things. Being a sports person is an extended childhood anyway. And if you've got all these people around you, then you're probably never getting to sort of feel what it's like to do what most people do, which is leave school, either go straight into employment starting at the bottom or leave school, go to university, live off pot noodles and other things like that, sleep on a few sofas and then find your way in life.

17:47I think the Josh Verstappen example was really interesting because I remember at the end of last season, Max was asked in the press conference ahead of the last race, like, are your family here? And he was like, well, no, I didn't plan to be in the title fight. So my dad's, he's, you know, rallying in Africa and my mum's at home looking after the dogs. so you know he's potentially I mean he was in the running to to win the championship for the fifth time and his parents aren't there and then we see kind of a contrast to when Lando won it albeit was the first time and his mum's there and you know we see a clip of her saying oh my golden boy I'm so so proud of you and you know he's crying and she's crying and it's lovely this lovely emotional moment and you know there's there's that argument as you were saying earlier you know the longer you're in the sport people also have their own lives and as much as they want to be there for every race they can't always be there for every race and every key moment but for me it's something that I love to see I love family's involvement I mean mine is in a completely different way but wherever I can have my parents I do and I think it's a piece of home and being an F1 driver can be so lonely and you guys will be able to vouch this you know in a very different way to me but you're traveling the world and where you can take that that slice of comfort I do not blame any of them for for doing that yeah look as long as it comes to a benefit then I think it's great to do it I think there's also a lot of drivers who maybe would want a bit of a degree of separation but they don't have you know they can't really say that so sometimes the teams have to get involved and help them say what they can't say because it's too touchy it's too sensitive but you know you're absolutely right those parents are there to support as much as they are there to impart some knowledge that they feel would be beneficial but as we say it's a tricky balance to find on the on the note of of of just taking a step back I think that you know he he was a lot more hands-on and more recently we see him coming to like fewer races which I think probably gives Max a little bit more breathing room but it's as you say natural right he's won four titles he just has kind of been there and done what he can do.

19:54I think they understand that that ship is, you know, sailing and doesn't really need his guidance as much. Whereas, you know, Lando's dad doesn't come from the same background, right? He wasn't an F1 driver in the past. He wasn't a racer. So his support is very different. I actually sat on the plane next to Sisko on the way back from the Australian race last year. And I think they really sensed that they had a good package. And she was like, I'm going to try my best this year to be at as many races as possible. whereas she hadn't done that in the past but she's so lovely and and I think Lando's parents really managed to be there just to support and I think they have like a real positive influence on him from from that side so yeah it's it's all interesting but it's difficult to really um read between the lines because as I say the drivers aren't going to really say if their parents are really only there for positive reasons and if maybe they're really putting a lot of pressure on them they wouldn't say that out loud so you've kind of got to just like try to figure out what's really going on.

20:48Yeah, I think we have to remember, they didn't just sort of go down the job centre and pick out a Formula One driver form. They've been on this journey from eight years old, maybe even earlier. So yeah, it's a, as we've all acknowledged, it's a family journey, this journey of life. And if you can share it with them along the way, all's the better. Well, after the break, Naomi, you're obviously a new mum and DC, you have got a son racing. So we're going to be talking all about putting a child into racing, what it takes, and would you want to put your child into F1, or get your child to F1, I should say.

21:22So if you're not following us on socials, it's at UpToSpeedShow. Make sure to comment, subscribe, leave a lovely review, and we'll be right back to answer more of your questions.

21:35Okay, so straight back to it, and Laura on Instagram asks, does Does having a child change the way they race? I never wanted to be a father whilst I was in Formula One because I didn't know exactly how much work it would be. But I figured it was more than I could handle on my plate. So our son Dayton was conceived in the last year that I knew I was retiring and he was born a couple of weeks after the final race. and I'm really glad the timing worked out that way because it allowed me to focus just purely on training and selfishly going about being a Grand Prix driver. Michael Schumacher had two children for the majority of his career and it didn't seem to slow him down at all.

22:18So I think it's about putting your mind in the different environments that are necessary. So yeah, kids, not kids. I think it really depends on the individual. For some, it may affect them. But if I look at my old teammate, Mika Hakkinen, and having recently done a little tour with him, what's become ever more apparent, the reason he stopped relatively early wasn't the fact he, I think he was like 32, 33, was not because of kids, but because he had that almost fatal accident in 1995 in Adelaide, fractured his skull, lost some hearing, spent a week in an induced coma, spent, I think, two months in hospital.

22:57So for him, that trauma was ever present. And he came back, won a couple of world titles and went, that's enough. So it was almost a bit like Nico Rosberg, but for different reasons. You know, Nico obviously put everything into it and went, I can't do better than that. Therefore, I'm out. And putting your child through F1, you know, on that, can you give us an idea, a rough idea of the cost to that now? I mean, in 2026, it's millions and millions and millions. Yeah, I think it's the last figures I saw, if you're lucky, then it's about eight million pounds to fund through karting to be in a position of being ready for Formula One.

23:37So I can't tell you what the breakdown is and how many years in karting that is. But let's assume eight until 15, something like that, then into F4, probably one or two years in F4. Then you're into F3, a million and a half. Then you're into F2, two and a bit million. So, you know, very quickly it ramps up. I know in my own personal journey with my son, Dayton, then you're hundreds of thousands in karting. You're getting into more than that by the time you get into cars. And he's in his second season of GB4. So it is an expensive sport. And therefore, some great talents will never make it beyond karting because they don't have the funding.

24:18But I guess you could argue that some great footballers don't end up playing for the team they want to because they don't get scouted and maybe they lose heart or they miss an opportunity or they get injured or whatever it happens to be. Yeah, well, I mean, when you say those numbers, it just blows my mind. I mean, you're right. No matter which way you slice it, motorsport will forever be an expensive sport, right? Like someone's got to pay for the rubber. Someone's got to pay for the fuel. Someone's got to pay for those brilliant minds hours, right? You go to a lawyer, you pay top dollar for that hour.

24:49Same thing goes for engineers. But it's wild to me that in karting you'd be spending as much money as some people are spending in this day and age like why do we have a cost cap at the pinnacle of the sport and we don't have a cost cap in the grassroots because i remember when i was karting like as i mentioned my dad was spending every penny he had left over to send me racing we were by no means like well off like i think we were what we would call like middle class um but you always would have you know the other drive other drivers would have like softer chassis but they would change their chassis every race or they would be overhauling their engines after every race weekend and they'd have like 13 of them lined up in their trucks where do we draw the line on like how far drivers can go with that because at the end of the day it becomes more about money and less about talent and yes i know we can't get fully away from that but maybe there's a way that that can be limited in the tune you know to weed out some talented drivers that aren't just don't have the same access as as you know richer drivers I mean it's sad to me that today on the grid of course these are incredible drivers but the majority of them are sons of millionaires and billionaires and the others are all sons of XF1 races you know I think there's a few like Esteban Ocon and maybe Pierre Gasly and if you think who else maybe Lewis of course Fernando who come from like a different generation though that have had a different path up but yeah like it's not like football where you can just put a pair of boots on and go kick a ball like I remember when I was racing in in W series like a day of testing and in the similar kind of car was like 15 grand for a day of testing like therefore I never went testing and therefore I was shite you know like you can't you can't it's like you're rocking up to a gun wall with a spoon you can't like you can't compete when when when that's the way that things are managed but it is what it is but i think that there's still a way to optimize it you know yeah look i think you're absolutely right it it should there should be a route that makes it more cost effective i think rob smedley um former engineer at ferrari with lippi massa has set up a karting championship which is a much more cost effective way of going racing and i know from talking to uh the president of the fia he's very supportive of having a much stronger control and the costs in carpenting.

27:10But I'll tell you who doesn't want to control the costs are the teams. There are a lot of successful teams, and I understand it's business, and in free trade and free business, the best teams will always be able to charge more, and people will have the money somewhere to pay that, and they'll therefore not guaranteeing success, but they're giving themselves a much higher chance of success if you go with the top teams. And of course, it just keeps pushing itself up. Arguably, Formula One, who own Formula Two and Formula Three, could put more of a cost control there, but then they earn money from it.

27:48So why should they, if it's another revenue stream for them and the overall scheme of everything that they've invested? Liberty didn't spend however many billion to buy Formula One, not to make money. so I think the issue we have it's called life and in in the journey of life it's not fair and some people get and some people don't I mean Naomi you've obviously as we mentioned before just had your little son he's he's six months old right he's six months old already with two teeth why is it going so fast and I have to say he's absolutely adorable thank you what are your thoughts you grew up a you know a driver your whole job is you know surrounding f1 would you like to put rafael through so like i really want to try to find something positive to say here because this is the sport that i love right like i have a massive passion for motorsport i love what i do but i have to say that even when i retired i was like very disheartened by the state of the sport for the reasons that i just mentioned like i am by no means a millionaire i am by no means a billionaire and I am by no means an ex-F1 driver.

29:05So when you look at the odds anyway, right, like let's take money out of it completely. When you look at the odds of succeeding or getting to Formula One, the odds are like zero to none, right? Like it's already pretty much impossible to get to the top. If you take out those other factors, it's like, what are the odds, you know, like I'm obviously in a good position now where I know a lot of team owners, junior programs are doing more than they potentially did in the past. So yes, maybe I'm well positioned to give him a good opportunity, but do I really want to like, you know, burn all my money trying to get him to somewhere where ultimately the odds of him getting there are probably unlikely.

29:42I don't know. Like when he grows up and starts talking and says, mom, I really want to, you know, go racing. Maybe I'll change my tune and be like, how do I say no to that? But as of right now, I wish that the sport was in a state where I knew that there was a real opportunity for kids to climb that ladder um but right now i just feel like it's all about greed and money and unfortunately that doesn't breed like it doesn't promote talented drivers and of course i have no idea if my son has any talent right we're talking hypothetically here assuming he even wants to do this like you might want to be an artist or a doctor or whatever he wants to be um but yeah look it's a it's a real question everybody asks me everybody keeps giving him gifts that have car racing cars on it and i'm like well guys please stop well consider my bank account yeah well here here was my position when datum was a little boy he was lucky enough to have an opportunity to try the sailing club he was lucky enough to try the tennis club he was lucky enough to try the football club uh the golf club he tried all of those things and he turned around and said when can i start karting and uh you Oh, shit.