Will Mercedes civil war end in tears after epic Canada battle?

0:01This is a Global Player Original Podcast. That was one of the best battles I have ever seen in Formula One. Say it louder, Will. What on earth was going on? There's going to be internal politics. It's starting to brew. Whoa. We've been here before, haven't we? It's just young kids. F*** it all up.

0:30Up to speed.

0:36It's Will. It's Naomi. It's Jolie. Welcome to Up to Speed. And we start, of course, with looking back on an incredible race. Guys, we were talking about it in the last episode, how Canada can throw up these amazing races in 2011 and Jensen Button and, you know, a sprinkling of rain can produce some magic in Canada. And boy, did it do that again. What a race. 60 NFs. Wow, wow, wow. Including George, including the world champion Lando Norris, A bizarre start. Massively entertaining race ultimately between George and Kimi. I think one for the ages. It was a it was a brilliant battle between those two.

1:14Battle between between Max and between Lewis. And after all of that, Kimi getting his fourth win in a row. I mean, just what a wild, wild race. Honestly, I felt like I was living in the past with everything that's happening with Lewis and Max. And then fast forwarding to the future with seeing Kimi break another record, you know, winning his fourth consecutive, you know, win in a row. And it was just, as you said, it produced everything. It was so exciting. You couldn't stop watching. I have to say this might be an unpopular opinion because I know there's so much debate around the sprint format and that we shouldn't have more.

1:49But this weekend, I felt like I was glued to the screen. There wasn't a moment you wanted to miss. And I do think that this sprint format really lends itself to Canada. And yes, there were scenarios that weren't necessarily track specific, like inter-team battles and poor strategies by McLaren and reliability issues. But the actual racing itself just produced so much action. And I have to say, every moment kept on giving. I had a great time watching it. I don't know about you guys. No, no, no. Agreed. So, guys, like, where do we start? Do we start with the sprint? Do we start with the main race?

2:21Because we had action in both, I guess. I feel like we go with Kimmy and George. That's obviously probably our biggest storyline here. Yeah, and it's something that carries across both of the races because we were saying in the lead up to this, look, this was a weekend where George had to win. He won the sprint, DNF'd in the main race, but the battle between the two of them in both, I thought was fantastic. I thought George was maybe over the edge a little bit in the sprint. I'm not sure about you guys, like what you thought about Kimi's style of racing. But I loved how kind of unhinged it was at times.

3:03There was almost a desperation in it. His confidence for a 19 year old is incredible. But I also think to throw in again a bit of controversy, I think we have to pose the question. If they would have been two different teams racing there, would there have been more of an investigation? Thoughts? Oh, what, you think the team, well, because the team would have actually levied an investigation and been on the phone to the FIA, well, you can't get on the phone to the FIA anymore, but you know what I mean? What was interesting to me about that situation is that it never was mentioned on screen as noted or anything like that.

3:37And I think when we rewatched the analysis of what actually happened, yes, Kimi at the apex was slightly ahead with his front axle. However, when you see George sort of touch the curb, he did sort of bounce off of it. So I think they probably saw it as like a racing incident. but honestly that moment I think was really where the gloves came off and almost I'm happy that it happened because on one hand Kimi is really showing that he's not just going to be like bullied or made to feel like the little brother he was like I'm here I'm going to race you and I'm going to race you hard and George whilst he's a great driver and he's full of confidence as well he's so difficult to overtake like that's one thing I will give George so much credit for is he is incredible in his defensive driving in the sense that he never loses time while doing it.

4:23Like it doesn't compromise him too much, but I think it's going to be such an exciting season ahead watching these two go head to head. I mean, it's not mentor versus rookie anymore. I remember, and I've spoken about it before on one of our podcasts, but seeing Kimi on his first ever media day and literally George had his arm around him and was helping him with what to say. I remember, you know, Kimi came out and said something and George was like, whoa, wait, wait a minute. No, Kimi didn't mean that. And, you know, this isn't what's happening anymore. This is a title fight and Kimi is showing, you know, I might be younger.

4:56I'm newer to the sport, but this isn't just George's because that's what should feel deserved. You know, this is just as my right as it is his. And I love it. I think Kimi is still showing that he's a youngster, not a rookie, but still still young there are some very rough edges to his racecraft but i think that's what makes him so exhilarating to watch um is that he is imperfect and there are moments where he steps a little bit over the edge and so i can understand you know toto being a bit a bit wary uh because crash damage is is um you know a major consideration for that team now because those two drivers are getting so close to each other um but i love the unbridled energy and just the passion that kind of exudes through watching kimmy race he's an absolute joy like a total joy to watch ring the neck of a of an f1 car um and watching those two um lap after lap after lap in the in the grand itself really go at each other um was wonderful was it was absolutely wonderful i think we have to credit toto as well because you know he very much was like consider the other driver your competitor go and race you know we want to see it i watched a clip before the race started of martin speaking to george and martin said you know i've only ever experienced in the past team principals being able to love one driver and george was like no toto is different you know there's opportunities for both of us here and they did let them race I mean there was one time that both of their race engineers came on I think it was around lap 29 of 68 and they were like you know boys if you can't keep this tidy I should say men if you can't keep this tidy you know we're gonna have to stop this um but I love that they just let them go for it it's completely different to what we saw last season with papaya rules yeah look I think you know much like Will said just watching Kimi race is so refreshing and so exciting.

6:59I mean, you can really sense that he's still racing as if he was in the junior formula, which I think a lot of the more experienced drivers really measure the risk, whereas he's just like, I'm going to absolutely go for this. And whilst it is exciting and it is, you can tell that he's, you know, the best way to describe it for me is a diamond in the rough, right? There's so much raw talent there, but there's still some edges that need to be sort of polished. And I thought that he was very sort of lucky this weekend that the moments where he did go off, it didn't go completely wrong. And he actually managed to, you know, stay within a reachable distance of George when it did go wrong.

7:32But he's going to have to be careful that that doesn't come to bite him back in the end, because he's putting him, he's sort of surviving moments that more experienced drivers wouldn't be putting themselves in to begin with. And he's been lucky so far, I have to say, even though I I don't believe in luck. I think you create your luck. But I think in the long run, if we're thinking about championship wins here, you've got to start measuring where that reward is worth it, right? Like in sort of where there's like low reward moments, like be careful of where you make those decisions. Whereas on the flip side with George, I think, you know, he's probably now realizing an uncomfortable reality, which is that Mercedes didn't bring Kimi in to learn quietly on the side, right?

8:12They brought him in to be the next generational talent. and George is going to have to deal with that reality and it is going to be uncomfortable but he's just got to hone into his confidence because he's an incredible racing driver incredibly skilled, incredibly consistent and he's got to be careful of not chasing this championship he's got to let it come to him and not get emotional about the way he goes racing Yeah and those emotions came out, didn't they? over the weekend and I think that showed an element of where George is at in his head he knew he needed to win this weekend and the DNF, you know, we saw his emotions after that.

8:47I think any idea we have that Kimi isn't in his head right now and that he's just breezing through this and he's totally calm, I think that was thoroughly sort of rejected at the weekend. I will say there's one thing about Kimi, and again, it goes back to that rawness, Naomi, and you saying he's the kind of way up the risk and the reward. He reminds me a lot of a young Lewis back in 08 or a young Seb when he first came into the sport. Or a young Max. Or a young Max. Yeah, that's my comparison. But was kind of, was making, well, I picked Lewis because Lewis in his first season was fighting for a world championship.

9:25And there was still the rawness of the GP2 champion in Lewis in that first year. And Fernando wasn't ready for that because Fernando thought, oh, here's this young kid and I'll easily be able to dominate him. but Lewis was taking very low percentage moments and making them work just on that inherent skill you know going over the limit but somehow catching it like somehow bringing it back and those moments were enthralling um and you know Weber used to get really upset I remember when Weber got taken out by Vettel in Fuji and said you know it's just young kids um who fuck it all up or something like that you know and it was like you know they've got all this talent and then they fuck it all up.

10:13It's how you learn though isn't it? That's how you learn. Exactly and you saw with Lewis and you saw with Seb these two guys who were going to be champions and it was just that that rawness to their race craft that was an absolute joy to watch. The radio messages I found really interesting over the weekend and obviously there's been a lot written in the past 24 hours and you always get the headlines and I think you've got to read far deeper into it because the headlines are like oh Toto says he's going to stop the two of them racing and he's going to call a halt to it but actually when you dive down into it I think it's really interesting that that Toto's actually enjoying watching them race there's a limit and we heard that on the radio I don't enjoy the drivers being told basically to can their emotions and to stop bringing their emotions out on the radio.

11:03And I know there's sponsor considerations and all of this and all of that, but it's like, you know, on one hand, we want drivers to be emotional and we're asking them to be emotional and wear their hearts on their sleeves. And then on the other, you're like, no, actually shut up and stop that. And we'll talk about it behind closed. We want emotion. You want to see the emotion. You want to see that they care. There's two things here. I do agree with you. I think the first time Kimmy said something, you know the second time was okay the fourth time I understood why you know Toto came on and was basically like right we don't need everyone else hearing you've said it four times yeah but Toto had to come on twice which is like once the boss comes calling on the radio you shut the fuck up but I think with George like where he you know where he threw pretty much everything out it was just a little much like we you've not lost this yet this isn't the last race you know you're still in this yes you're 43 points off of Kimi now and that can feel like a world away but that reaction kind of to the team at home to you know everyone watching was like whoa I think I'm probably going to lean a little towards Will here in the sense that you can just tell that there's a lot of passion right like the firstly obviously Kimi's new to new-ish to F1.

12:22And so he's got a long career ahead of him. George has been waiting for this moment for an extremely long time. And when you're competing against your teammate with equal equipment, it's that much harder to create that gap. And if Kimi happens to end up being extremely consistent for the remaining races and they don't have reliability issues, trying to close a gap of 43 points is a task. And yes, it can very easily swing again if he has a DNF or if there's a big moment. But if things go okay, 43 points is a tough haul to catch up. So I understand George's emotions. Exactly. So George's emotions in that moment are understandable.

13:03What I thought was quite funny in that moment was the fact that he carefully removed the steering wheel because he knows that that's very expensive. So there was still a little bit of composure in that moment, like a bit of restraint um but Kimi as well on the radio I do think that we were starting to see a part of his character that maybe we hadn't seen before right like he can be quite hot-headed and emotional in the car whereas as we say he feels very like happy-go-lucky like a bit like a puppy you know most of the time and there we saw like what the true racing driver when the helmets on the gloves come off how he experiences emotions and I think that him building a relationship with Bono in this moment is very important because Bono and him are going to have to manage these situations because I think there's going to be plenty of them to come.

13:51I think it speaks a lot to what is going on beneath the surface for both drivers. So for George, that emotional reaction for the DNF, obviously you understand it. You know, he's got a race win in front of him. He's won the sprint. It's his weekend. And all the talk going into the weekend was George has to win. He has to get his championship back on track and the drivers always say we don't read the press don't take any you know we don't pay any attention to it he knew that that weekend was pivotal for him and he knew that he needed that win and so his emotions pouring out of him in that moment that he was unable to control I think gives us an insight into the fact that George himself knew that that result was key and then when it disappeared it was you know all of those emotions came out on the flip side with Kimmy's radio outbursts I think what that proved to me is that Kimmy understands that George is the established driver at the team and that maybe in his subconscious there's an element where he thinks the team are more maybe on George's side or are more established with George and that if it was Kimmy alone then and let's say you know it was a Max or somebody else who had forced him uh over the grass in the sprint or had raced him the way that they did in the feature race that the team would have been upset and would have been looking for a penalty but because it was a teammate they didn't and so in those radio calls and and asking the team like why that's not fair he ran me out of space all those things it's like for me he was trying to he's almost pleading with the team of can you be on my side please with this you know and then when the team asked Kimi to give the position back in the Grand Prix you know so the first time in the sprint he felt he was unfairly run out of space and the team did nothing about it then when they're running wheel to wheel and Kimi essentially gives back what he was given in the sprint the team tells him to give the position back I can understand why he would be upset and I think if that happens more then you have the problem of maybe it works into his mind of oh god do they want George to win this and not me are they on his side more than mine and he's got to overcome that.

16:07So I thought it was a fascinating insight maybe into where both of them are in their heads on that weekend. And equally, George was not happy about where he gave back that position as well, right? So there's a lot of... Yeah, right. It's going to be internal politics. It's starting to brew. That happens. Like, Kimi's also got to be strategic with it. And that's what I was going to say. Well, that's brilliant from Kimi. You know, he's so advanced. And, you know, I'm going to give myself a little bit of credit here because I have backed Kimi since day dot. And I think that he deserves a little bit more credit.

16:39And I'm not necessarily sure that the outburst on the radio is what you're leaning towards, Will. Although I do understand it. I think maybe it's more, he's actually realised, you know, his first race, he was, you know, overcome with emotion. Oh my gosh, I've won my first race. The second one, it's like, wow, wow. Now he's, you know, hearing this actually could be Kimi's year. Everyone, you know, it's kind of gone from luck to things happening to now. Kimi's a brilliant driver. And I think he's actually realising it's a lot closer than maybe he first anticipated or everyone anticipated. And he's now starting to feel that pressure of winning the title.

17:15I don't think Kimi is driving with that much pressure. I think... I'm not sure. I don't think we're at that point yet. Because when you watch the way he races, there's an abandon to it. there's a joy, there's a freedom. And I think George is racing. Do you not think Max still races like that? Yeah, totally. But Max hasn't got any pressure this year, has he? But every year Max races like that. Yeah. Well, the difference with Max is that, as we were saying just a little bit earlier, Max has already polished his diamond, right? So what looks a lot rougher with a lot more mistakes with Kimi, Max is doing the same.

17:57He's on the limit constantly, but he's managed to figure out a way to be on the limit without making the several mistakes that he also once upon a time used to make when he was in the car. So eventually Kimi will get there and the question is how quickly will he get there? And that will be the stress point for George is he's already developing at a rate of knots and that gap is going to be incredibly difficult to close. But he's done an incredible job so far, I think. And also just to be that close and putting that much pressure on George at George's possibly best track, right? Like George was on pole position three years consecutively in Canada and we were talking about bogey tracks in Miami and he was looking forward to coming back to Canada because that's his track and yes he was quicker overall throughout the weekend he was putting those laps in slightly more consistently but Kimi was just there I mean he was in his rearview mirror putting pressure on him all the time so bodes well for us.

18:50Can we just talk about that can we just talk about that race I've been watching Formula One for a long time and um I can't recall a race but certainly in recent memory looking back you know even over the history of formula one you have these great moments and these great battles between drivers and they last a couple of laps right they don't last 30. That was one of the what was one of the best battles I have ever seen in formula one it was absolute box office um it was it was just sensational And I loved every single second of it. And we have given these new regulations a lot of grief, right?

19:36In that moment, and for those 30 laps, I wasn't thinking about deployment and regenning or anything like that. It was just two elite drivers going wheel to wheel for the same team and putting it all on the line. And that's what racing is about. It was wonderful. I absolutely loved it. I feel like it's also so important, I agree with everything you've just said there, Will, that, you know, talking about this race as a whole, Kimi and George wasn't the only exciting thing. And I think that's also what makes it such a fab race. And I think we definitely have to discuss the vintage Verstappen-Hamilton battle.

20:15That was great. So seeing them race and fight again was so amazing to see. And just fast-forwarding to the end of the race for a second, when we were in the cool-down room, which I have to say is my favourite part, one of my favourite parts of the broadcast. And I get so frustrated when they end it too soon and they're having such good chat and they're like, okay, now we're going to move on from here. And it's like, no, we want to stay in the room with them. Stay on this. Why are we moving away? All the fans want to see this. Just to give you a little TMI on that moment, right? So I agree with you, Jolie.

20:47Like the cool down room is 100 % one of my favorite moments because the drivers sometimes forget that the cameras are there and they give you little nuggets of information you never would have got. And I remember the, you know, Heike Kovalainen was there, by the way, a little throwback having him do the interview under the podium. But they did a question with each driver and then they went to ask Kimmy another question. I was desperate for the loo, but obviously I couldn't leave throughout the race because there was just so much going on. And I was like, right, I'm going to sacrifice Kimmy's last answer to this question because I want to be back in time for the cool down room.

21:15That was my sacrifice there. And then I did a quick record-breaking pit stop. I love it, can I say. But seeing Max and Lewis chat, you know, Hamilton was saying that it was so much easier to come from behind when he was chasing Verstappen, and then Verstappen ended up being able to stick with him, and it was so exciting to see that as well. But hearing that exactly as you say, those little nuggets of information, from the drivers themselves without the mic shoved in their faces. You know, it was so great to see. But their actual racing on track as well, everything about it was 10-10. Yeah, and I have to say, I mean, one thing we have criticised the regulations a lot, and for good reason.

22:02I do feel like clearly on a track like Montreal, it didn't feel as bad as it has potentially at other races. But one thing we have to say well done to the FIA and to Formula One for is that the cars are really able to follow each other. And I think that that has made a huge difference in terms of maintaining those battles throughout. Because typically in sort of dirty air, the drivers would always be struggling to close that gap. I mean, you'd see them closing. And then once they got there, they were kind of like sitting ducks. Whereas now we don't have that anymore. And I think it's lent itself to really great racing for us to watch.

22:37Yeah. And brilliant for Verstappen to get a podium on a weekend where again, yeah, Before the race had started again, he kind of repeated his negativity towards the sport at the moment and just said that mentally he wasn't able to carry on driving like this. And I'm not sure that's a pop at the regulations, maybe more a pop at where Red Bull finds itself at the moment. Yeah, I agree. And the fact that he finished the weekend with a podium was brilliant. Can we discuss the Lewis strategy with the Sim? Because I'm fascinated by it. Sure. I feel like Naomi, this is probably one for you because of the sim racing that you will have done.

23:14But Hamilton basically came out after last race and said, you know, I'm staying away from the sim. Yeah. So the thing is that, you know, personally, I've never been a driver that loves a simulator either. And I guess that that also comes down to equipment and software. And obviously the Formula One technology is far above the technology that I've used. However, sometimes you can develop negative habits in the simulator that you then expect to translate on track. And actually, you have a completely different feeling in the car than what you had on the simulator. So sometimes that work can be, you know, not necessarily advantageous.

23:51In this case, this is what Lewis has been saying. And I know that he comes from a different generation of drivers where actually sim racing wasn't a priority, whereas Max has grown up on a simulator and he loves it and he manages to extract the best out of himself for it but it doesn't work for everyone and correlation is a major element on this as well so maybe the sim at Red Bull has better correlation maybe there is an element of that but then Charles isn't saying that he's not going to use a simulator so it can also be personal in terms of driving style the feeling you have in the simulator versus what you have on the track and you could see that even this weekend the two drivers were experiencing two completely different things in the same car so the experience is never going to be 100 % identical from one driver to the next and if this is what works for him then stay off the simulator because clearly he was a happy Lewis Hamilton and that's what we want to see right like Lewis had a beaming smile on his face all weekend long and we have been waiting far too long for that look at sports like golf or like tennis and what happens when a player changes their coach and how you can have such an immediate turnaround in an individual's game.

24:59And that's all to do with preparation. And I'm totally with Naomi on this. If you are preparing in a way that doesn't feed you and gives you false information, cut it out. Change your coach, change your methodology. And for Lewis, if that simulator is, and brilliant wording, Naomi, if it's giving him bad habits, right, that he expects to be replicated in the car and then they're not. Well, what's the point? I remember, was it last year? Jack Doohan kept the DRS open into turn one at Suzuka because he'd done it on the sim and was like, yeah, it works, mega. I'm going to do it in real life. Massive shunt because, of course, it's not going to work in real life.

25:41You know, sim ain't real life. You've just got to do what works for you. And it's a bold decision. I mean, to be honest, even though it works for him, to be able to go to Fred or whoever Lewis reports into and say, listen, I'm not doing the same anymore. It's a tough thing to say because, you know, not everybody is of the same mindset that that's disadvantageous. Like they might think, well, Charles is coming in next week and he's going to be doing loads of work on the sim. Yeah, of course they have development drivers. They have reserve drivers who can do the work and the long hours on the simulator to develop parts for the car.

26:18But I think it's tough. It's not an easy thing to come out and say, I've taken this decision. I'm not going to do it. It's like a saying, like, I'm going to do this part of the job, but not that part. But if that's what works for him and that's what's going to get him immediate results on track, then I'm glad that he's made that decision. Because, you know, I know he came out this weekend. Bold statement from him again. He's not going anywhere. So we're not going to lean into the narrative that he is going somewhere. But he's not at the beginning of his career, right? So every race, every year counts at this point.

26:46And, you know, make the most of it. Do what works for you. He's the seven-time world champion. He can do what he wants. like if Lewis Hamilton turns around and says I'm not using the simulator sorry Luigi Hamilton by the way is apparently how he goes by oh is it well that's what Fred called him on the weekend love that we've been talking lots about what went well this weekend but I think straight after this break we're going to be discussing what didn't go so well and that has McLaren's name written all over it so if you're not following us on socials it's at up to speed show make sure you're subscribed to us on youtube and we'll be right back

27:31right guys mclaren i have to say i actually can't get my head around the strategy of that race like what what on earth was going on no points for mclaren across we've we've been here before we've been here before haven't we listen um i'm look i'm i'm usually the first to jump on on on mclaren and their and their poor strategic decision making but for the start of the race starting on inters i will say this montreal and that race when it starts to spit with rain it's going to go one of two ways right it's either going to be intermittent or it's going to be a deluge they looked stupid but on any other year they would have been the heroes and they would have been leading that race so you can't take that away from them you know when you have to have your tires strapped on on the grid you gotta make a call you gotta make a call with the best information that you have at the time and they made the call you have to look at the current race you have to look ahead of you not your past no no no no jolly when you are on the a grid okay you are working with the information that you have and the information they had at the moment was that it was spitting with rain on the grid and so they put on inters if that those spits of rain had evolved into a deluge then mclaren would have looked like absolute heroes now it didn't and when it didn't and and and this is the thing that that's that confuses me obviously having the having the the car stall on the grid and and limblad get get pushed back into the garage right you've then got extra formation laps and on those formation laps it became apparent that it was not going to be the downpour that they thought it was exactly why why at that point stick to your guns yes because if you pit and you start from the pit lane you lose far less time than if you stay out there start the race and then fall to the back once the race has started and so in that so so so starting the original formation lap on the inters i have no issue with not reacting and this is the inherent problem with mclaren and their strategy and i've said it before they either don't react when they should or they panic and they do something they don't need to do in this case it was a total lack of action when they needed to make that action and i do not understand how this keeps on happening at mclaren like it's it's almost every single race weekend now where it is staring you in the face and and inaction or indecision is still a decision like you decide not to not to do anything and it just is baffling so to just to recap it from what was Oscar's perspective post-race, right?

30:20Apparently the lap to grid on slicks was treacherous, right? Incredibly cold conditions. You could see at the end of the race, everyone was wearing their puffers, their beanies. Like it was very cold out there and all weekend long the drivers were suffering with tyre warm-up. So I think that they all had that in the back of their mind. So they do the lap to grid. Apparently it's quite treacherous. You can see sort of damp patches, but there is already a drying line. And apparently throughout the national anthem, it was still spitting a little bit. So as Will says, right, you get on the grid and not, it's just before you drop the car onto the grid and you take those tyre blankets off, you then see what your competitors have opted for as opposed to what you have.

30:59Okay. So then, you know, they go for the first of, what was it? Three formation laps. They go for the first of three formation laps. And at that point they realize, okay, it looks like it's drying. And the drivers are having this back and forth, both of them, discussion with the pit wall saying, we're not on the right tyre here, we're making a mistake. And they say, well, no, we think that the others are going to have problems with tyre temperatures, we think you're going to get off the line better, and you'll get an advantage. What I will say is, yes, I do feel, as you were saying, Will, that they have been, in the past, maybe more so the first year that they turned their form to good performance, that they were a little bit like lacking confidence in their decisions and kind of being a little bit defensive rather than offensive with their decisions.