A fond farewell to brunch and also humankind

19 Sep 2026 · 47 min · 22 chapters

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In short

Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me episode mixes comedy news quiz segments with games and a guest interview. Main news themes include AI fears (Google Gemini saying it can’t destroy humanity), a controversial Sydney Sweeney sports-betting ad, and the Wall Street Journal declaring “the death of brunch.” It also covers marriage/social-life stress (“man-keeping”), QVC mishaps (bomb-threat flower delivery script, a talking pumpkin with offensive lyrics, and a QVC error projecting a woman’s phone number), plus lighter “news” items like double-cleansing in showers and a “Quietchella” nature-listening festival.

Guests

Hernan Diaz (Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist; wrote Trust; new novel Ply). Panelists: Shantira Jackson (writer/comic), Adam Burke (comedian/essayist), Sam Rocha (Chicago comedian on Nervous Laughter).

Key claims/examples

Gemini’s “sad face” response; Sweeney ad backlash from female athletes; brunch decline blamed on lines/health/food logistics; QVC “Fall Explosion” delivery staff warning “it’s the bomb”; Jabberin’ Jack pumpkin tune complaints; Shirley Robinson accidentally calling herself to buy a blouse.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

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Congress and AM Radios

0:00 to 0:12

Discussion on a new law mandating AM radios in cars.

“This message comes from Dataiku Agent Management.”

Congress and AM Radios

0:45 to 1:40

Discussion on a new law mandating AM radios in cars.

“Later on, we're going to be talking to the Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist Hernan Diaz.”

Introducing Contestant Katie

1:40 to 2:36

Introducing listener contestant Katie from Nashville.

“You're not a musician, but you've thrown a lot of them out of your establishment.”

AI and Humanity Concerns

2:36 to 4:25

A discussion about AI's potential threats to humanity.

“So, Katie, you're going to play Who's Alzo this time.”

Sydney Sweeney's Controversial Ad

4:25 to 7:18

Debate over a controversial ad featuring Sydney Sweeney.

“I was noticing that thing about the ethnic name.”

The Death of Brunch

7:18 to 8:39

Discussion on the Wall Street Journal's claim about brunch.

“Because if you don't know sports, you'll think she's just on a basket.”

Katie Wins the Quiz

8:39 to 9:57

Katie successfully completes the quiz segment.

“And then, of course, there is the challenge of getting those tankers of hollandaise sauce safely through the Strait of Hormuz.”

Managing Husbands' Social Lives

9:57 to 12:35

Discussion on the challenges wives face managing their husbands' socializing.

“Sam, this week we learned about yet another new stress on marriages these days.”

Managing Husbands' Social Lives

12:39 to 13:40

Discussion on the challenges wives face managing their husbands' socializing.

“Jerry's changing how you think about car insurance.”

Bluff the Listener Game

13:40 to 14:03

Introduction to the Bluff the Listener game segment.

“We're playing this week with Adam Burke, Shantira Jackson, and Sam Rocha.”
Show all 22 chapters

Bluff the Listener Game with Christopher

14:03 to 20:53

Listeners engage in a game where they distinguish truth from fiction in humorous stories.

“Right now it's time for the Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me Bluff the Listener Game.”

Interview with Hernan Diaz

20:54 to 27:31

Author Hernan Diaz discusses his journey, novel inspirations, and connections to pop culture.

“A handful of authors, of course, have won a Pulitzer Prize, but as far as we know, there's only one winner who can say their novel is the reason Dua Lipa met her husband.”

Toilet Paper Trivia Game

27:31 to 28:00

The show hosts play a trivia game related to toilet paper with author Hernan Diaz.

“You wrote Ply, but what do you know about Two Ply?”

Toilet Paper Trivia

28:00 to 31:06

Learn about surprising facts and history related to toilet paper through a fun quiz format.

“But we are going to ask you three questions about toilet paper.”

Introducing Hernan Diaz

31:06 to 31:58

Get to know Hernan Diaz, a Pulitzer Prize-winning author, and his new book.

“In just a minute, Alzo tells you about the most stressful way to relax.”

Limerick Challenge Introduction

32:43 to 33:20

Participate in a listener limerick challenge with the show's panel.

“From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, the NPR News Quiz.”

Discussing News and Quirky Theories

33:20 to 42:01

Engage in lively discussions about news, theories, and humorous observations.

“Shantira, a new movie has thousands of people theorizing that rather than being enemies, as we have always thought, who might actually be lovers?”

The Therapeutic Power of Bees

42:01 to 44:12

Discover how the inventor of bee therapy found solace in nature's hum.

“Yeah, because we humans famously haven't figured out a way to replicate sound.”

Lightning Fill-in-the-Blank Game

46:39 to 50:02

Participants compete in a fast-paced trivia game, answering fill-in-the-blank questions.

“According to new data, Arctic glaciers have lost 12 trillion tons of blank in the past 50 years.”

Show Credits and Acknowledgments

50:02 to 50:49

A rundown of the show's production team and thanks to contributors.

“Our public address announcer is Paul Friedman.”

Show Credits and Acknowledgments

51:41 to 51:51

A rundown of the show's production team and thanks to contributors.

“Bombas compression socks help keep legs fresh on travel days, work days, leg days, and more.”

Show Credits and Acknowledgments

51:57 to 52:09

A rundown of the show's production team and thanks to contributors.

“Arctic Wolf combines AI-led security operations with human expertise, helping teams detect, investigate, and respond at machine speed without building it themselves.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00Hernan Diaz:This message comes from Dataiku Agent Management. Most enterprises can't count their AI agents, let alone manage them. Dataiku Agent Management lets you do both from a single view. Visit dataiku.com to learn more.

0:19Sam Rocha:From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, the NPR News Quiz. I'm Alzo Slade, your judge and scorekeeper. And I can't help but notice that's two jobs, but I only get one check. Well, here's your host at the Studebaker Theater at the Fine Arts Building in Chicago, Illinois, Peter Sagal. Thank you, Alzo.

0:41Adam Burke:Thanks, everybody. Wow. We do have a great show for you today. Later on, we're going to be talking to the Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist Hernan Diaz. But first, the U.S. House of Representatives, this is true, just passed a law requiring car manufacturers to include AM radios in all the new cars going forward. That is a true thing. As you might expect, this was very popular with the older members of Congress. In fact, for this vote, Mitch McConnell came back to life.

1:17Adam Burke:There's no law requiring you to call in and play our games, but we hope you do anyway. The number is 1-888-WAIT-WAIT. That's 1-888-924-8924. Now, let's welcome our first listener contestant. Hi, you're on Wait Wait Don't Tell Me.

1:28Shantira Jackson:Hi, this is Katie from Nashville, Tennessee.

1:31Adam Burke:Hey, Katie from Nashville, Tennessee. Can I just play on stereotypes and assume you're in the music business?

1:39Shantira Jackson:I am not. I am a bartender. so we kept the hard work.

1:43Adam Burke:That is music business adjacent. Close enough. Yeah, yeah. You're not a musician, but you've thrown a lot of them out of your establishment.

1:52Shantira Jackson:Yeah, one or two, yeah.

1:54Adam Burke:Yeah, yeah. Well, Katie, welcome to the show. Let me introduce you to our panel. First up, she's a writer and comedian who most recently wrote for Clean Slate, which you can see on Prime. It's Shantira Jackson. Hi, Katie. Hi.

2:09Adam Burke:Next, a comedian whose first collection of essays and Drawings with Whom I Am Well Pleased is now available for pre-order from Keiko Press. It's Adam Burke. Hello, Katie. Hi, Adam. Hi. And making her debut on this panel, she's the comedian you can catch on her show, Nervous Laughter, every month at the Lincoln Lodge right here in Chicago. Please welcome Sam Rocha. Hello.

2:36Shantira Jackson:Hi, Katie.

2:38Adam Burke:So, Katie, you're going to play Who's Alzo this time. Alzo Slade is going to read for you three quotations from this week's news. If you can correctly identify or explain two of them, you will win our prize. Any voice from our show you might choose in your voicemail. Are you ready to go? I'm ready. All right. Here's your first quote. It is an answer we got from Google Gemini. It does not currently have the capability to destroy humanity. Now, Gemini is perhaps a little biased here, considering how many humans are sounding the alarm this week that what might destroy humanity?

3:12Shantira Jackson:That would be artificial intelligence. Yes, AI.

3:20Adam Burke:It's a little distressing when we asked Google Gemini, are you going to kill us all? And we got that answer because it stressed that it doesn't currently have the capability and added a little sad face emoji. The confusing thing is that the people warning us about AI are the people who are making AI. The CEO of Anthropic is basically like, we've got to stop this. Does anybody know anybody at Anthropic?

3:47Shantira Jackson:Are you worried, guys? I am worried about it. I worry about it every time I walk outside and I see those Coco robots. I don't know if we're familiar with those things, but they're the delivery... These are the little delivery robots. The delivery guys, and they trick you because they look cute at first. They put human faces on them with eyes and a mouth, and they'll give it a name, too. Well, they've been doing this thing now where they do ethnic names. I saw one named Latasha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Latasha. I saw one named Latasha and one named Manuel. And I was like, what are we doing here? What's the deal?

4:20Shantira Jackson:Yeah, Ranjiv almost broke my leg. I was like, you can't get me. I don't know. That's what I was saying. I was noticing that thing about the ethnic name. Is that better or worse? It's worse. It should all be Anglo-Saxon names, right? It should all be white people names. And it's weird because... Only Dave should have to be scared to cross traffic to bring somebody Chick-fil-A. We know what's even worse.

4:43Adam Burke:They're robots. They're not humans. But somehow the ones with ethnic names are still being paid less. Yeah.

4:51Shantira Jackson:I know Natasha is working hard.

4:55Adam Burke:And it wasn't supposed to destroy all of us. It was just supposed to destroy musicians, writers, editors, teachers, doctors, lawyers, programmers, and actors.

5:05Sam Rocha:I know a few podcasters that could destroy it.

5:09Shantira Jackson:You know, Bill Gates actually, Bill Gates wrote a 6 ,000 word essay about how AI is going to destroy it. I didn't read it. I had ChatGPT summarize it. What was it summarized? ChatGPT, Bill says it's going to be fine.

5:25Adam Burke:Don't worry. All right, Katie, here is your next quote. Sports, sports, sports, sports, sports. That, as I'm sure you knew, was Sydney Sweeney, the actress and model who appeared in a controversial viral ad for a company that lets you bet on what?

5:47Shantira Jackson:Oh, I'm going to have to think real hard, but I'm guessing sports. Yes, sports.

5:57Adam Burke:The ad features a naked Sydney Sweeney holding sports equipment in strategic places and saying the word sports a bunch of times. It's caused backlash from tons of female athletes who say it's demeaning. And it kind of is. It is strange to find myself saying, I expected better from you, online casino.

6:21Shantira Jackson:I know that people are upset about her being naked and holding things. I'm upset because she really has never played a sport. Because nobody who has ever played softball ever wants to be naked while they're doing it. Right. You're not going to slide home with no pants on. You can also tell she doesn't play sports by the way she says the word sports. Like, she had never heard it before. And doesn't know what any of the objects she's holding are. Like, this is a weird plate.

6:55Adam Burke:Well, it has apparently worked. This ad for this Australian sports betting site has gotten 50 million views already. And that's fantastic marketing for a betting website whose name I assume is, like, footballboobs.com. I have no idea.

7:12Shantira Jackson:She was like on a basket at one point. Yeah, she was sitting on a basket. That was physically impressive. A basketball rim, you guys. A rim. Yeah, a basketball rim. Because if you don't know sports, you'll think she's just on a basket.

7:27Shantira Jackson:We got to be specific around here.

7:29Adam Burke:That's true.

7:30Shantira Jackson:Sports, sports, sports.

7:31Adam Burke:That's true. Sports, sports. Sports. Sports. All right, Katie, your last quote is a restaurant goer talking about why a certain weekend tradition has lost its appeal to just about everyone.

7:43Sam Rocha:I associate it with oversized portions, mediocre food, and an entire afternoon disappearing. So what is finally going away?

7:52Shantira Jackson:Oh gosh, I feel like I should know this, serving food for a living, but can I get a hint?

8:00Adam Burke:No more like eggs, Benedict bars, and a menu of Bloody Marys. Brunch? Yes, brunch!

8:11Adam Burke:This week, the Wall Street Journal officially declared the death of brunch. People are tired. What? Are you upset with me because they didn't, like, you know, ease you into that bad news? I didn't start by saying brunch is very ill. We're not quite sure. I was shocked you with it. I'll be right. I was insensitive.

8:32Shantira Jackson:That guy's name is literally Eggs Benedict.

8:35Adam Burke:So this week, the Wall Street Journal did officially declare the death of brunch. people are tired of waiting in the long lines. People want to eat healthier. And then, of course, there is the challenge of getting those tankers of hollandaise sauce safely through the Strait of Hormuz.

8:52Adam Burke:Are you guys brunch fans?

8:54Shantira Jackson:I am a brunch fan, but I will say this is from the Wall Street Journal, which I guess is really known for brunch reviews.

Read the full transcript

9:01Adam Burke:Yeah.

9:03Shantira Jackson:I appreciate the source, but I can't take it seriously. I need a blog from a drag queen to tell me that brunch is dead.

9:14Shantira Jackson:I need Trixie Mattel to tell me brunch is dead before I believe it. I like they're going to start calling it what it is. Drunk at two in the afternoon. Well, that's the thing. I also love, I mean, because a big thing at brunches was the Bloody Mary bar. Yeah. Which was so clever. Which was just a bartender's going, we do not want to make you drinks. Yeah. Just do it yourself. It's basically self-checkout for alcoholics.

9:40Adam Burke:Alza, how did Katie do in our quiz?

9:41Sam Rocha:Katie is the winner. She got all of them right. Congratulations, Katie.

9:46Adam Burke:Thank you. We'll stop by your bar the next time we're in Nashville.

9:51Sam Rocha:We'd love to have you.

9:52Adam Burke:It'd be great. Thank you so much, Katie. Take care. Okay, panel, it is time for you to answer some questions about this week's news. Sam, this week we learned about yet another new stress on marriages these days. It's wives having to make sure their husband has what?

10:11Shantira Jackson:Has the right layout of the kitchen. You know how they don't know where anything is? The husbands.

10:21Adam Burke:You hear this. Yeah, you hear this about husbands. We just don't know where anything is.

10:26Shantira Jackson:Okay, I know that's not the answer.

10:28Adam Burke:We can ask for a hint now. Okay. Wives and mothers are often arranging play dates for their kids, so... A friend? Yes. They're trying to get their husbands friends. If you think about it, it makes sense. Have you ever met a friend's husband and you thought, huh, maybe he's really funny when it's just the two of them? You're not alone. According to the cut, more and more women are having a hard time socializing their husbands. Apparently, as marriages progress, wives put in extra effort to maintain their friendships, while husbands just find more things to do in the basements.

11:05Shantira Jackson:I don't think you needed a study to say that it's hard to be friends with men. They'd just be wasting money.

11:15Adam Burke:So one psychologist put it, in addition to things like housekeeping, women also have to take on, quote, man-keeping, basically managing their husband's social lives like they were a toddler. So good news, honey, you're going over to Ryan's house on Friday, and Rebecca said you should bring your iPad.

11:33Sam Rocha:I feel like this is just the wife saying, get your ass out of the house.

11:40Hernan Diaz:Let's go ride our scooters. Let's go ride our bikes. Let's go have a snack.

11:50Shantira Jackson:Everybody like.

11:52Adam Burke:Coming up, our panelists regret buying something they saw on TV. It's our Bluff the Listener game. Call 1-888-WAIT-WAIT-TO-PLAY. We'll be back in a minute with more of Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me from NPO.

12:06Sam Rocha:This message comes from BetterHelp. Imagine carrying a backpack every day. Inside it, every conversation, every mistake, every expectation. It is easy not to notice how heavy it is until someone asks if you want to put it down. Sometimes feeling better starts exactly like that. Better isn't one size fits all. Better is personal. It's therapy tailored to the individual to help lighten what you carry. Match with a therapist who truly understands. Visit BetterHelp.com slash NPR.

12:39Hernan Diaz:This message comes from Jerry. Jerry's changing how you think about car insurance. For people who like to save or shop smarter, Jerry doesn't lock you into a policy that auto-renews. Reshop anytime by comparing up to 20 quotes side-by-side and switch, all in the app. No spam calls, no hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry save over$1 ,300 a year on average. You'll probably be the first one you know to use it, making you the smartest friend in the group. Download Jerry today. This message comes from Prolon. Want to look and feel your best this fall? Prolon's five-day fasting mimicking diet is a clinically developed nutrition program with the goal of promoting fat loss while protecting lean body mass.

13:19Hernan Diaz:Developed at USC's Longevity Institute, it aims to assist the body in entering a fasting-like state that helps reset metabolism, target visceral fat, and support healthy metabolic markers. Get 15 % off plus a bonus gift when you subscribe at prolonlife.com slash NPR.

13:40Sam Rocha:From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, the NPR News Quiz. I'm Alzo Slade. We're playing this week with Adam Burke, Shantira Jackson, and Sam Rocha. And here again is your host at the Studebaker Theater in Chicago, Illinois, Peter Sagal. Thank you, Alzo.

13:57Adam Burke:Thank you, everybody. Thank you all. Right now it's time for the Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me Bluff the Listener Game. Call 1-888-WAIT-WAIT to play our game on the air. Hi, you are on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. Howdy. Howdy. Who's this? This is Christopher Richard from Chicago, Illinois. Hey!

14:19Adam Burke:Where do you live? Are you close by? We could wait and you can come down and do this in person. I know, it'd be nice, but I'm way up north in Rogers Park. Okay, well what do you do in the greatest city in the world? I am a singer and voice teacher. No, really? That is great. Let me ask you something. And I'm asking for myself. Is there anybody who sings so badly, naturally, that you simply could never help them learn to do it correctly?

14:45Shantira Jackson:No, I think everybody can sing well.

14:51Shantira Jackson:Just with a little love and training. That really split the room. Did you know that? Half of the people in here were like, no, they can't.

15:01Adam Burke:I was tempted to try to prove you wrong, but these people are having a good time. Why ruin it? Well, it's very nice to have you on the show, Christopher. You're going to play our game in which you have to tell truth from fiction. Alzo, what's Christopher's topic?

15:15Sam Rocha:As seen on TV, unfortunately.

15:18Adam Burke:So many things can go wrong when you buy something that's advertised on TV. I ordered a scrub daddy, but it was no more emotionally available than my regular daddy. Yeah. Well, this week, television retail giant QVC sold something that required a pretty major apology. Our panelists are going to tell you about it. Pick the real one and get the wait waiter of your choice in your voicemail. Are you ready to play? All right. Let's hear first from Shantira Jackson.

15:51Shantira Jackson:We are currently in the thick of fall wedding season, so the QVC channel, aka Quality, Value, and Convenience, decided to offer a special flower bouquet called the Fall Explosion. The thought being that if you can't make it to a wedding in person, you can still have a blast celebrating the newlyweds by sending them a gift chock full of dahlias, marigolds, and other fall favorites. Each bouquet was meant to knock your socks off. The problem is that all of the delivery people were given a script to recite upon arrival, showing up announcing, hey, I got a special explosion in the box for the bride to be.

16:28Shantira Jackson:With one delivery guy going as far as saying, be careful when you open that, it's the bomb. Needless to say, there were many reports of potential bomb threats throughout suburban neighborhoods. The head honchos at QVC quickly issued an apology stating that when it comes to flowers, sometimes they get it wrong. And to make it up to customers that were affected, they promised that if you call right now in the next 10 minutes, you can get two pairs of jeggings for the price of one.

16:56Adam Burke:The fall flower explosion freaks out some of its recipients. Your next QV apology comes from Adam Burke.

17:07Shantira Jackson:Time was when Halloween decorations were simple. Cute cobwebs made from asbestos and real spiders. But there's been a recent escalation over the top ghostly decor, whether it's giant anatomically correct skeletons or one of those life-size motion-activated animatronics, which have literally scared the crap out of me. But the latest decoration innovation is less creepy and more, well, creepy. Meet Jabberin' Jack, an animated talking pumpkin that spits out 40 seasonally-themed quips and different scary songs at passersby. But according to a woman on TikTok, one tune hidden in Jack's repertoire gave her the wrong kind of shivers.

17:46Shantira Jackson:The pumpkin starts by explaining how this villainous facade is just because I'm shy. Come closer. Before he tells you he'll spoil you with my roasted pumpkin seeds and asks, how would you like to scream all night? Apart from being the only recorded instance of a white lady objecting to something pumpkin-related and spicy,

18:12Shantira Jackson:the saucy, squashy serenade have generated many complaints, prompting apologies from both manufacturer Mindscope and TV retailer QVC. NPR reached out to Jabbering Jack for comment, but his response isn't suitable for broadcast.

18:27Adam Burke:Jabbering Jack.

18:31Adam Burke:The dirty singing pumpkin. Your last home shopping sorry comes from Sam Rocha.

18:38Shantira Jackson:When Shirley Robinson saw blouses for sale during the 10th hour of her QVC marathon, she knew she had to have one. So she used her cell phone to call the number on the screen. Then her house phone rang. She went to pick it up and she was on the other side. After a full minute of going, hello, this is Shirley. No, this is Shirley. I want to buy that blouse. No, I want to buy that blouse. She realized that QVC had projected her phone number on the screen. QVC blamed it on a graphics department error, saying the number was right, but the font made the sixes look like fives, confirming, as we'd all feared, that Pacifico brushstroke is simply too whimsical for a professional setting.

19:21Shantira Jackson:For the rest of the day, Shirley fielded calls from people trying to buy a blouse. At first, she was annoyed, and then she saw it as a business opportunity. QVC has since apologized for the mix-up, but not before Shirley sold her entire wardrobe.

19:41Adam Burke:All right, these are your choices. From Shantira, the poorly marketed fall explosion floral blue K. From Adam Burke, the dirty singing pumpkin jabbering Jack. Or from Sam, because they posted a woman's home phone number as the number to order, she ended up calling herself to buy a blouse. Which of these is the real story of a mistake on a home shopping channel? I feel like I want to go with the pumpkin. Okay. Yeah. All right. I think we're going to go with the pumpkin. You're going to go with the pumpkin. Great. Well, to bring you the real story, well, what can I say? Listen to this.

20:23Sam Rocha:How would you like to scream all night?

20:26Adam Burke:I'll feel you all right. That was Scary Jabbering Jack itself

20:38Adam Burke:The pumpkin sold on QVC Singing its freaky little song Congratulations Christopher You got it right You earned a point for Adam Just for telling the truth You've won our prize The voice of your choice In your voicemail Thank you so much For playing with us today Thank you so much It's been really fun It's been great Thank you Thank you

21:04Adam Burke:And now the game we call Not My Job. A handful of authors, of course, have won a Pulitzer Prize, but as far as we know, there's only one winner who can say their novel is the reason Dua Lipa met her husband. That author is Hernan Dias, whose new novel, Ply, is out this month, and he joins us now. Hernan Dias, welcome to Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me.

21:27Adam Burke:So obviously we're going to start with this. It is true, in fact, that Dua Lipa first bonded with her now husband over your book Trust, right?

21:35Shantira Jackson:It is. It is true. It is true. I think it's actually one of the first pictures they exchanged was the cover of the book.

21:42Adam Burke:Because she's well known for her literary enthusiasm. This guy who she and Emre said, oh, Dua Lipa, what are you reading? And she said, trust. And he said, me too. And off they went.

21:51Shantira Jackson:but the question I think I think that I think the line was oh we're on the same page oh

21:59Sam Rocha:that's some sexy talk right there oh that is I heard it I heard it from the man I heard it from

22:04Shantira Jackson:the man himself and you know as a writer I am now married but I was kind of jealous oh sure

22:11Adam Burke:yeah sure I mean okay so they bonded over over your book but are you sure they both liked it

22:18Shantira Jackson:there is nothing that brings people more closely together than dislikes

22:24Adam Burke:there you are it's true either way you're happy they bought the book yeah it's true I read this amazing story that I had not known about how your first book came to be published which is that you sent it to a small press non-profit in Minneapolis that was basically running a contest, submit your manuscript and we'll publish the one we like best? Was it like that?

22:48Shantira Jackson:Yeah, that's pretty close. I've been writing my entire life, but I had an extremely hard time getting published. I was published in my late 40s. I was already completely bald.

22:59Adam Burke:I'm sorry, what's wrong with that? Oh, best. He's saying there's hope for your next book. It was true that, thank you, and it was true that the genius could only emerge once there was no hair in the way. Exactly. Exactly. So anyway, go on.

23:16Shantira Jackson:Yeah, so this independent publisher had one day a year of open submissions. I, needless to say, did not have an agent. But I was ready, and I think they capped it at 600 or 800 submissions, which only took a matter of hours to reach that limit. And I was ready that morning and sent it. And on 4th of July weekend, I heard back from the publisher, and they wanted to publish the book, which was In the Distance, which is not my first novel. I have drawers full of manuscripts, but that was the one that got published first.

23:55Adam Burke:Wow, yeah, and people may know that your first published novel was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize, which is quite extraordinary for a first novel. And one... One, I always like asking this of authors who struggled for a long time before they were finally discovered for their talent. Do you ever run into the many people who like turned you down and sent you rejection notes, you know, and sort of smile in a winning way?

24:24Shantira Jackson:I do. My favorite moment is when they go, so very nice to meet you. And I go, actually, we've already met.

24:36Adam Burke:I wonder, though, since you were able to pursue your art with such passion for what you were doing in isolation just for yourself, is it actually harder now that you're an award-winning, acclaimed novelist who everybody expects great things from?

24:52Shantira Jackson:Parts of it are harder, but I also know the other side of this, of writing in complete solitude, in this kind of solipsistic madness and keeping going despite the world telling you to please stop. I think I prefer these challenges to the world. Yes.

25:20Adam Burke:We also read that for all of this writing, including all those novels that didn't get published and now the novels that have been published to acclaim, You have used the same pen for 20 years? This pen? That pen!

25:33Shantira Jackson:It's here. Yes, an old professor of mine gave it to me, I want to say, almost 30 years ago now. I'm 52, so maybe a little less, actually. But yeah, it's still this pen. What would happen if you lost it? So much ram in my head is devoted to the pen and to that question. what would happen? I lost it. I think I would move over to my second favorite pen, which is, do you guys know, I don't have one in the proximity, do you guys know those big pens with four colors?

26:11Adam Burke:Oh yeah, I grew up with that. I think that is the most the human race is capable

26:20Shantira Jackson:off. We invented that pen, and I love those.

26:26Adam Burke:That might help your art, because you'd be like, well, this character's getting angry. I guess I'm changing to red. I have one more question for you before we get to our game, and that's, as I indicated, one of the things that makes you stand out, I think, as an author of literary fiction is how different your books are. So, your first published novel in the distance is a Western, or it's set in the Western United States in those days. As I said, trust is early 20th century New York financiers in Europe. Ply, set in the far future, very sort of science fiction-y, speculative. What's your next genre?

27:00Adam Burke:Have you considered, for example, romanticcy?

27:04Shantira Jackson:It's going to have so many dragons, Peter.

27:14Adam Burke:That's also, that's just a good title, so many dragons. Yes. All right, hear me out. Dragons, but they play hockey and... Actually heated rivalry. Exactly. Well, Hernan Diaz, it is an absolute pleasure to talk to you, and we have invited you here to play a game we're calling... You wrote Ply, but what do you know about Two Ply? Yes, your novel is a single ply. We're going to ask you about something that, if you can afford it, comes in two ply toilet paper. I am determined to lose. I think for a writer of your dignity and seriousness, there really is no other acceptable choice. But we are going to ask you three questions about toilet paper.

28:03Adam Burke:get two of those questions right, you win a prize for one of our listeners. Also, who is Hernan Diaz playing for?

28:09Sam Rocha:Pete Schwartz of Forest Park, Illinois.

28:11Adam Burke:That's not far from here, so here we go. Here's your first question. Toilet paper really took off in the United States over the last 150 years or so. In fact, it was very important for the rise of Sears Roebuck Company. How so? Was it A, A, their first wildly successful product was, quote, Sears cotton spools for your stool. B, the founder of the company, Richard Sears, was using an envelope as TP and said to himself, well, why not mail everything? Or C, their famous catalogs were widely prized as toilet paper. I'm going to go with A. You're going to go with A. Sears, remember, he said he wanted to get it wrong.

28:57Adam Burke:And I'm going to honor that. Your choice is A. I'm afraid it was a C, in fact. In fact, so many people used it as toilet paper that when they went in the 30s from plain paper to glossy, thousands of people wrote in to complain. Here's your second question. The Northern Tissue Company, back in 1935, started advertising their new innovation in the space. Toilet paper that was what? A, ethically sourced. B, lovingly abrasive. Or C, splinter-free.

29:40Adam Burke:Again, A. It was, in fact, C, splinter-free. Last question. Some people are serious about their toilet paper, including which of these? A, the late drug lord Pablo Escobar, who had his woven from silk by a private seamstress, B, the New York Jets, who ahead of an NFL game in London shipped over 350 rolls of toilet paper for the team's use, or C, Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney, who is required by law to use both toilet paper and papier toilette every time.

30:15Shantira Jackson:I'm going to stick with A. You're going to stick with A.

30:19Adam Burke:No, the real answer was B, the New York Jets, they had been told the British toilet paper was really thin, so they brought their own. Alzo, how did one of the leading literary lights of our time do in our quiz?

30:34Sam Rocha:He preserves his dignity by doing terribly. Zero out of zero. I think, honest to God,

30:44Adam Burke:I honestly think that if you had gotten any of those right, I would have been a little disappointed. So I congratulate you on maintaining your reputation.

30:53Shantira Jackson:Thank you. I'll fail again. I'll fail better.

30:57Adam Burke:Hernan Diaz is the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of Trust, his new book, Ply. It's available for pre-order now. It will blow your mind. Hernan Diaz, thank you so much for joining us on White Waste on Tomy. What a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much. Take care.

31:16Adam Burke:In just a minute, Alzo tells you about the most stressful way to relax. That's in our Listener Limbric Challenge. Go on 888-WIT-WAIT to join us in the air. We'll be back in a minute with more of Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me from NPR.

31:33Adam Burke:This message comes from Cook Unity, The first chef-led meal delivery service where every meal is handcrafted in local micro kitchens, not mass-produced in large facilities. With hundreds of dishes to choose from and over 10 different dietary preferences like high protein, low sodium, GLP-1, and more. Taste what happens when real, award-winning chefs make fresh, small-batched meals just for you. Go to cookunity.com slash wait or enter code wait before checkout to get 50 % off your first order.

32:06Hernan Diaz:This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees, and free perks, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash switch. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

32:22Sam Rocha:This message comes from Sony Pictures Classics. The New York Post calls Hachan Shake Your Booty a delirious gem. Academy Award nominee Rinko Kikuchi stars as a woman drawn back to Tokyo's ballroom dance scene after a tragedy. Only in theaters September 25th.

32:43Sam Rocha:From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, the NPR News Quiz. I'm Alzo Slade. We're playing this week with Adam Burke, Sam Rocha, and Shantira Jackson. And here again is your host at the Studebaker Theater in Chicago, Illinois, Peter Sagal.

33:00Adam Burke:Thank you, Alzo. In just a minute, well, Alzo kept begging us to read some limericks, and so we finally said, fine. That's our listener limerick challenge coming up. If you'd like to play, give us a call at 1-888-WAIT-WAIT. That's 1-888-924-8924. But right now, panel, it is time for you to answer some questions from this week's news. Shantira, a new movie has thousands of people theorizing that rather than being enemies, as we have always thought, who might actually be lovers?

33:30Shantira Jackson:The whales and the people with the yachts.

33:33Adam Burke:Really? You're thinking about the orcas and the yachts? Yeah.

33:37Shantira Jackson:Oh, wow. They really love each other. I didn't realize how horny Moby Dick was. It's right in the title. No, like I said, this is... It's telling you exactly what's going on. When he says I stab at thee, he was talking about something entirely different. I'll take a hint. I'll take a hint.

33:54Adam Burke:You'll take a hint. Well, when you think about it, meep, meep could mean I'm yours.

33:58Shantira Jackson:Oh, Roadrunner and Coyote. Exactly right.

34:02Adam Burke:They could have a thing for each other. The theory, the theory is that behind their long feud is repressed desire. It makes sense. We all know somebody whose love language is anvils. So this new movie is out, Coyote vs. Acme, and these old characters are back in the news, and there are thousands of videos speculating about their secret romance on TikTok. This is a fan theory that makes you realize, boy, we are so hungry for heated rivalry season two.

34:35Shantira Jackson:I've seen this, yeah. It's based on if you watch those old cartoons that the Roadrunner never actually hurts Coyote. it's acne that's always hurting him. So it's just kind of like watching, it's like if your boyfriend's on Jackass and you just kind of watch it. It's like look what he's doing.

34:56Adam Burke:You mean the Roadrunner could stop this madness at any time?

34:59Shantira Jackson:Yeah, but he's just like ooh, look at my boy jump off a bridge.

35:04Sam Rocha:I think Wally Coyote is a tech billionaire. He can't be chasing the Roadrunner for an actual meal because there ain't no meat on his bone.

35:12Shantira Jackson:I think he's a tech billionaire because he's warning us that these machines are going to kill us.

35:18Adam Burke:And we don't listen to them. Sam, according to some doctors and dermatologists, who are also doctors, in the shower, after you wash yourself, you should then do what?

35:32Shantira Jackson:After you wash yourself, you should throw away the loofah.

35:37Adam Burke:No, in fact, you should not throw it away because they want you to...

35:40Shantira Jackson:They want you to... Get a clue. Clue. They want you to get a clue.

35:50Adam Burke:This study might have been funded by Big Body Wash. Because they want you to do what after you've washed yourself?

35:58Shantira Jackson:Wash yourself a second time. You do! Yes! You got it.

36:02Adam Burke:You got there eventually. We are now told that we need to wash ourselves in the shower completely twice. In order to thoroughly clean and nourish your skin, experts now recommend double cleansing. Think of your body, if you will, like a dirty Tupperware. You can scrub and rinse once, but the essence of marinara remains.

36:23Shantira Jackson:I think this is good. I've been to middle school. They need to do it twice. Yeah, exactly. All right, all right. I'll allow a middle school caveat. Yeah, they need to do it twice because when I was there, I don't think they were really doing it once.

36:40Adam Burke:If you want to know, the idea is that while the first cleanse removes sweat, sunscreen, and odor, the second quote restores moisture, supports the skin barrier, or delivers an active ingredient. Wait, what's the active ingredient it develops? You said it? If there is an active ingredient in the soap. Oh, is it? Yeah, exactly.

36:58Shantira Jackson:It's an active ingredient.

37:01Shantira Jackson:Well, if that's in the soap, we're going to have to wash ourselves three times.

37:08Adam Burke:Exactly. I'm just imagining the bottle now with more b****.

37:18Adam Burke:Coming up, it's Lightning Fill in the Blank, but first it's the game where you have to listen for the rhyme. If you'd like to play on air, call or leave a message at 1-888-WAIT-WAIT. That's 1-888-924-8924. You can see us most weeks right here at the Studebaker Theater in downtown Chicago in the Fine Arts Building, and catch us on the road. We'll be in Omaha, Nebraska next week and in Kalamazoo, Michigan on October 22nd. For tickets and information to all our live events, Go to nprpresents.org. Hi, you're on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me.

37:42Shantira Jackson:Hi, Peter. This is Mary calling from Rio Rancho, New Mexico.

37:46Adam Burke:Oh, wow. I love hearing about New Mexico because it's one of the two states in these United States I've never been to. But I assume everyone in New Mexico is always outside wearing lots of turquoise.

37:58Shantira Jackson:Yes, there is a lot of turquoise. And when it's not 99 degrees and super hot out, we are outside quite a bit. It is at about 6 ,000 feet. where I'm at, so we have pretty cold winters and hot summers, but there are roadrunners, coyotes, rattlesnakes, lots of wildlife. Are they in love?

38:25Shantira Jackson:I haven't seen them together, but I'm waiting for that acne truck to pull up and see what happens.

38:31Adam Burke:Well, Mary, welcome to the show. So Alzo Slade is going to read for you three limericks with the last word or phrase missing. Your job, of course, try to figure out what that last word or phrase might be. Do that two times out of three. You will be a winner. Ready to go? I'm ready. Here's your first limerick.

38:50Sam Rocha:Our park's concert is not a loud riot. It's more zen and it's free. You should try it. When you've listened to Moss, you have no hearing loss.

39:01Adam Burke:our huge concert is hours of quiet quiet yes the festival of nature listening is starting in finland next month and that's where you can go and stand in a field and hear the sweet sounds of wind and maybe if you pay for the vip seats birds they're calling it quiet cella which is nice but it sounds like what you'd say to a drunk person who needs to go to sleep after Coachella. Like, shh, it's time for Quietchella.

39:33Shantira Jackson:So, it's the one concert where instead of someone yelling out, free bird! They're like, three birds! Yes, exactly.

39:40Sam Rocha:And then somebody's yelling, shut up!

39:46Shantira Jackson:Yeah, nothing says concert like being shushed.

39:50Sam Rocha:Here is your next limerick. In Madoc, as we run past some cloisters, our Our snacks leave us clammy and moister. The way we refuel is borderline cruel. The pit stops serve red wine and... Oysters? Yes, oysters.

40:10Adam Burke:Like every marathon, the Marathon des Châteaux de Médoc in France has hydration stations every mile or so, but theirs, instead of Gatorade, features nearly 20 different local wines. So you're sloppy, you drink, you're like, oh, great tannins and oaky finish, and, oh, notes of electrolytes. Along the way, in addition to the wine, runners can grab pastries, and at mile 24, they're waiting for all the runners to come by a table of raw oysters. This is the perfect race for people who are worried that after a normal marathon, they might not throw up.

40:49Adam Burke:This marathon is well-known, these marathons in France that have wine at the aid stations, and I've always wanted to do it. I was doing at this point in my life, is slowly running through France, getting drunk.

41:00Shantira Jackson:You can just go to France and do that.

41:03Adam Burke:That's true. All right, very good.

41:05Sam Rocha:Here is your last limerick. The loud buzz fills some folks with unease, and the pollen cloud might make them sneeze. This farmhouse day spa has a hive as its draw. I'm relaxing on thousands of... Bees.

41:23Adam Burke:Yes, bees. Bees, yes. The bee bed is a new state-of-the-art therapy tool where the patient lies down on a bed that has inside it as many as 600 ,000 bees. The idea is that the buzzing of all those bees is therapeutic and relaxing. You know, like that relaxing sleep you get right after you realize there's one fly in your room.

41:54Shantira Jackson:Can we just lay down and listen to Beyonce? Feels like a better deal I don't understand Why is this supposed to be therapeutic?

42:03Adam Burke:Because the true story is The guy who invented this was going through a hard time himself And he was out in the garden And he was listening to the bees And he realized he listened to the And it just made him feel better

42:13Shantira Jackson:So what makes him feel better Is to capture a bunch of bees from their home And lay on them? Yeah.

42:18Sam Rocha:Well, it's the hum from the bees.

42:22Shantira Jackson:Yeah, because we humans famously haven't figured out a way to replicate sound. Yeah.

42:26Sam Rocha:Well, we do it in the country with a box fan.

42:32Sam Rocha:Alzo, how did Mary do in our quiz? Mary's a winner. Three out of three. Congratulations.

42:39Adam Burke:Thank you so much, Mary, for playing and well done.

42:41Shantira Jackson:Thank you. This has been so much fun. Dream come true.

42:44Adam Burke:It was fun to have you. Take care.

42:59Hernan Diaz:This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees, and free perks, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash switch. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

43:15Sam Rocha:This message comes from Sony Pictures Classics with Hachan Shake Your Booty. The New York Post calls Hachan Shake Your Booty a delirious gym, and Collider says it's overflowing with energy and joy. Rinko Kikuchi stars as Haru, whose passion for Tokyo's ballroom dance scene is interrupted by tragedy. When friends coax her back to the studio, an unexpected infatuation with her new instructor gives Haru another chance at life and love. Only in theaters September 25th.

43:46Hernan Diaz:This message comes from Jerry. Noticing your car insurance rate creep up even without tickets or claims? You're not alone. That's why there's Jerry. Jerry handles the legwork by comparing quotes side by side from over 50 top insurers so you can confidently hit buy. No spam calls. No hidden fees. Jerry even tracks rates and alerts you when it's best to shop. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over$1 ,300 a year. Don't overpay. Download the Jerry app or visit jerry.ai slash NPR today.

44:18Adam Burke:Now on to our final game, Lightning Fill-in-the-Blank. Each of our players will have 60 seconds in which to answer as many fill-in-the-blank questions as they can. Each correct answer now worth two points. Alzo, can you give us the scores?

44:28Sam Rocha:Of course. Sam has three. Shantira has three. And Adam has three.

44:36Adam Burke:All right. Well, it's a tie. So whoever does best will win the game. I'm going to arbitrarily pick Shantira to go first. Here we go. The clock will start when I begin your first question, fill in the blank. On Tuesday, Representative Thomas Massey called for a vote to impeach Secretary of Defense blank. I don't know right now.

44:59Shantira Jackson:James Madison. It's a little late.

45:05Adam Burke:Pete Hegsath. For the first time in three years, the Federal Reserve voted to raise blanks. Interest rates. Right. On Wednesday, blanks said she had not decided whether to run for president again in 2028. Kamala. Right. This city of Minneapolis voted to allow driverless cars in their city, but on the condition that they have a blank. Driver. Right. On Tuesday, NASA powered up their new blank for the first time. Rover. No, Space Telescope. On Tuesday, health officials warned that blanks carrying dengue fever had reached parts of Florida. Mosquitoes? Right. This week, a zoo in the UK apologized after their website listed a children's tour of the zoo's dangerous animals as blank.

45:42Adam Burke:Safe. No, as, quote, a child predator tour.

45:53Shantira Jackson:Technically correct. All right.

45:56Adam Burke:So they received a lot of complaints. and the zoo apologized. They explained there was an issue with their automated ticketing system, which adds the word child to any ticket purchased for kids 12 and under. And they quickly fixed the name of their very popular predator tour. But they really need to be in that lookout for that one guy who demanded a refund.

46:24Adam Burke:Alzo, how did Shantir do in our quiz?

46:26Sam Rocha:She got four right for eight more points, total of 11, and the lead. All right.

46:32Shantira Jackson:It's good to be winning for now.

46:35Adam Burke:Sam, are you ready to do this? I am ready. Here we go, Sam. You're up next, fill in the blank. According to new data, Arctic glaciers have lost 12 trillion tons of blank in the past 50 years.

46:45Shantira Jackson:Ice caps.

46:46Adam Burke:Yes, ice. Amid tensions with the U.S., the EU suggested that blank could become the bloc's first so-called associate member.

46:53Shantira Jackson:Dua Lipa.

46:55Adam Burke:Where am I going for that? It's Canada. This week, a teacher from Slovakia leading a high school tour in France dealt with a group of noisy students by blanking. Putting them on a leash. No, by leaving them in France and going back to Slovakia.

47:10Adam Burke:Citing the state's opposition to their merger with Warner Brothers, blank threatened to leave California for Tennessee. Paramount. Yes, in a pre-recorded video, beloved musician blank posthumously accepted a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Americana Music Association.

47:27Shantira Jackson:Dolly Parton. Right.

47:28Adam Burke:This week, a man in Germany was busted after he made$50 ,000 by blanking. Moaning. No, by recycling a single bottle 177 ,451 times. Wow. Wow. He was a bit of ingenious engineering and a lot of free time, and a German man found a way to deposit one single bottle into a deposit acceptance machine almost 200 ,000 times, getting him around$50 ,000. Even the judge was impressed, noting that the man must have, quote, done nothing else every day other than attend to this machine. I guess the compliment takes the edge off a conviction, because the judge is like, whoa, man, mad props. Also, how did Sam do on our quiz?

48:09Adam Burke:She got three right for six more points.

48:12Sam Rocha:Total of nine. Shantira's still in the lead. Okay.

48:18Adam Burke:How many then does Adam need to win? Four to tie, five to win. All right, here we go, Adam. This is for the game. After he removed Macklemore from his tour for speaking in support of Palestine, Blank also dropped out of Ed Sheeran's tour.

48:32Shantira Jackson:Several others supporting.

48:33Adam Burke:Yes, every other band in the tour, including his own backup band. On Tuesday, the House again voted to limit Blank's war powers in Iran. The president? Yeah, Donald Trump. This week, Pennsylvania asked the CDC for help containing their Blank outbreak. Measles. Right, according to a new study, 80 % of people in China use blank at least once a week. AI? Yes. This week, Frito-Lay came forward and stated that the singular of Doritos is blank. Doritos? Yes. As in, I'm not too hungry. I'm just going to eat one Doritos. On Thursday, a NASA spacecraft discovered a new crater on the blank. The moon! Right.

49:13Adam Burke:On Monday, Matthew Rhys made history by winning two blank awards for Best Actor in One Night. Emmy. Right. This week, convicted criminals in Berlin were able to remain free for a little longer because the government had forgotten to blank.

49:27Shantira Jackson:Had forgotten to, like, repaint their cells?

49:30Adam Burke:No, they had forgotten to buy more of the little yellow envelopes they used to send out summonses. For weeks, Berlin's judicial system has been short on yellow envelopes, so it wasn't able to send out the notices that tell convicted felons when to report to prison. This is a very German story.

49:48Sam Rocha:alzo did adam do well enough to win yes he did he got seven right for 14 more points total of 17 and he is the winner

50:02Adam Burke:coming up our panelists predict what are restaurants gonna do to bring people back to brunch but first let me tell you that wait wait don't tell me it's a production of npr and wbez chicago in association with the Urgent Haircut Productions, Doug Berman, Benevolent Overlord. Philip Godeker writes our limericks. Our public address announcer is Paul Friedman. Our ops manager is Jasira Fardak. Thanks to the staff and crew at the Studebaker Theater in the beautiful Fine Arts Building. B.J. Liederman composed our theme. Our program is produced by Jennifer Mills, Miles Dornbos, and Lillian King. Special thanks this week to Mohanad Elsheki, Janie Hoffman, and Dom Banas.

50:35Adam Burke:Peter Gwynn is our Peter Curator. Emma Choi is our Vibe Curator. Technical direction is from Lorna White. Our CFO is Colin Miller, our production manager. That's Robert Newhouse. Our senior producer is Ian Chilag and the executive producer of Wait, Wait, Don't Sell Me. This is my Danforth. Now panel, what will restaurants do to get people back? Shantira Jackson.

50:53Shantira Jackson:Take protein out of everything. Back to empty calories. Sam Rocha. Instead of bottomless mimosas, you just have one mimosa you really have to make count. And Adam Burke. They will allow you to interrupt bad dates.

51:12Sam Rocha:And if any of that happens, panel, we'll ask you about it on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me.

51:16Adam Burke:Thank you so much, Alzo Slade. Thanks for all the issues here. Jackson, Adam Burke, Sam Rocha. Thanks to our fabulous audience here at the Studio Baker Theater. Thanks to all of you for listening wherever you may be. Peter Sagan, we'll see you next week in Omaha, Nebraska.

51:35Adam Burke:This is NPR.

51:38Hernan Diaz:This message comes from Bombas. Tired, achy legs slowing you down? Bombas compression socks help keep legs fresh on travel days, work days, leg days, and more. That's all day relief with everyday style. Go to bombas.com slash NPR and use code NPR for 20 % off.

51:56Sam Rocha:This message comes from Arctic Wolf. Arctic Wolf combines AI-led security operations with human expertise, helping teams detect, investigate, and respond at machine speed without building it themselves. More at arcticwolf.com slash NPR.

From the publisher
This week, panelists Adam Burke, Shantira Jackson, and Sam Rocha talk about the AI apocalypse, beds full of bees, and the death of brunch. Plus, guest Hernan Diaz discusses his favorite pen and his new novel ‘Ply’

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