HTDE: The Friendliest Sound in the World, with Olympic medalist Molly Seidel

0:00This is Ira Glass. On This American Life, one thing we like is a good mystery. Sometimes about really big things, but most times the little mysteries are the best. Our lost and found is currently filled with pants. I don't know. I've never seen this happen. This is true. This is true. Mysteries of every size each week. This American Life, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Wait Wait listeners. It's your judge and scorekeeper, Bill Curtis. We have another episode of How to Do Everything, hosted by Wait Wait producers Mike Danforth and Ian Chillag. This week, Mike and Ian help a listener who wants to stop scaring people while she's going on runs.

0:43So they call an Olympian runner. She'll know what to do. If you like what you hear, they won't live in this feed forever. So be sure to follow them at their own feed and enjoy the latest episode of How to Do Everything.

1:04Hey, Sam, what can we help you with? So I'm calling about a question that I've been plagued with for many years now. I've been a runner since my teenage years, and regardless of where I run, I run into this similar issue of if I'm coming behind someone who's either walking or running more slowly than I am, I get a little bit nervous about passing them without scaring them. and sometimes I'll stop my feet really loudly or try to clear my throat a little bit to see if they can hear me but I would say at least half the time they don't and then when I pass them they act a little bit upset as if it were my fault I don't like that is there a is there a time you remember startling somebody that stands out in your memory there was a time that I was running on a trail which I feel like on a trail you should be especially aware of your surroundings and I did a lot of throat clearing and trying to make some noise and ended up going around this person and just got a little, they kind of jumped and then acted as if they were very, very scared.

2:05And then I thought maybe there was a bear or something because the shock that they exhibited was much higher than I would have expected for just seeing another human being. Yeah. Have you ever had it, Sam, where you're running and someone passes you and they indicate they're coming in a clever way? Oh, never. Never. No, because people don't pass me. You're pretty fast. We get it. Kidding, kidding. It raises the question, what is the friendliest sound? Like, if you were going to choose a sound, what would be the friendliest sound you could possibly make to a stranger you were approaching from behind?

2:39Mm-hmm. I've got candy. Would that work? I don't think that's it. I have an 18-month-old child who says, move, in a very cute way. I think if I just had a recording of him saying moo. Moo like a cow, moo. Yeah. It is the first part of move aside too. Move over. Yeah. Don't you feel like that's the solution though? We should come up with like a surefire way to indicate your presence that is not threatening, that it's almost, it's excited. You're like happy to hear that noise. All right. We're going to try and help out Sam in a couple ways here. Someone who passes a lot of people while running is Olympic bronze medalist marathoner Molly Seidel.

3:26Molly, is this something you've dealt with? Well, this is the problem, too, is because I've had a couple times where I've, like, really freaked people out. And then I feel terrible because they literally will, like, jump and scream as if I've, like, tried to attack them as I'm, like, a barely above five-foot-tall woman coming up behind. I think also, tell me if this is true. whenever I've watched the New York marathon, when the elite runners go by, they're so much quieter than the normal people. Yeah, definitely a little bit less clomping and maybe not breathing quite as heavy. So yeah, it's especially at night, it gets pretty easy to like unintentionally sneak up on people.

4:09I typically like to announce myself wherever I go. So when I'm coming up behind, I'm like, excuse me, Olympic bronze medalist coming up behind. Yeah, it does feel like maybe that's a use for your Olympic medal is that you could clang it as you run by people. Trust me, I like anything that plays on my own narcissism. So I feel like I could use that like a cowbell coming up behind people of just like clink it a little bit. Yeah. And be like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. My medal is so loud. So I run a little bit and I have a baby that I push in a jog stroller. And something I've encountered recently is there is a species of running male that cannot handle being passed by someone pushing a baby in a jog stroller.

4:58I imagine being an elite female marathoner, you are constantly passing men who have a hard time with this. You are completely right. The species of man who hates being overtaken by a jogging stroller equally hates being overtaken by a woman. And so I've had many times, specifically on the river path in Boston, of passing these alpha males. And then you start a subtle yo-yo effect where they then start sprinting in order to pass you again until they inevitably collapse in a heap. So, yeah, I would definitely say it can be annoying sometimes, but it's also fun. Do they ever say anything to you at the very end?

5:40Like, you got me. No, they'll sometimes I am not even joking with this one. I had a guy who said out loud, I'm done with my run here. Like, obviously not because we were at least two miles from any like realistic stopping or starting point. but just that he felt the need to have to say of like, oh yeah, I'm actually was planning on stopping here rather than just like throwing up because I've been going so hard. Back to Sam's question for a second. Is there anything really that you do though? Like sometimes if I have my keys in my hand, I'll try and make a little noise. Is there any like actual techniques that you try and keep from?

6:20Generally, I will try to call out, just calling out in some sort of way I feel like is the very polite thing to do. Do they make running shoes with taps on them? Like tap shoes so that you're always... With some sort of noise. Yeah, you're like a noisy presence all the time. I feel like I would love a shoe. Do you remember the light-up shoes that you may have had as kids? I feel like something like that, but adding in a feature where it actually says a recording or does some sort of beat noise whenever you're going, I feel like there could be a real market for that. I mean, we used to, I had a cat growing up and we would put a collar with a bell on it so he wouldn't catch the birds.

7:04I think a collar with a bell for any runner might be the way to go. That would be adorable. We're back now. Then we're just back to the Olympic medal. Yeah, exactly. But maybe something like fancier, like a cute charm with a bell on it. But then imagine if people like, you get a lot of those people together and then it would just be a deafening noise. You can never talk to your running partners. Yeah. For some people, that'd probably be a benefit. It'd be great. Be appreciated. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I'm so sorry. I can't hear you over this bell. Yeah. But please, go on. Please keep telling me about your on-again, off-again boyfriend that you keep breaking up with.

7:42You know, this question, what is the friendliest sound? What is the sound that you could play that would be least likely to freak somebody out? we should see if we can give Sam and Molly for that matter a friendly sound they could play. Composer Mike Post seems like the perfect guy to help. Mike has a new album out. It's called Message from the Mountains and Echoes of the Delta. But relevant to Sam's question, Mike composed this sound. Hello? Hey, is this Mike? Yep. Hey, it's Mike and Ian from NPR calling. How are you? Oh, I'm doing great. How are you guys? We're terrific. Where are you? Where are you on your journey?

8:26I'm in Southern California. I'm actually just trying not to get killed here on a 101, driving north to Santa Barbara to have lunch with Dick Wolf. I guess if we were to imagine what Mike Post would be doing, that's what we would imagine he'd be doing. Well, yeah. Well, so we come to you because you wrote the theme to Law & Order, one of the great iconic themes. And then, as we understand, Dick Wolf then comes back to you and wants something to mark transitions between scenes. That's correct. Do I have that right? That's precisely correct. At the 11th hour, just before the dub is finished, I've already completed all my work.

9:11Everybody's real happy with what I did. And he calls me up and says, hey, I'm going to date stance, scene changes, and I need a sound to mark that. And I said, great, call sound effects, because I'm your composer. I don't do sounds. I do music, you know. And, you know, he and I are dear friends. So he goes, hey, come on. I need a favor. God, why do you, you know, come on. I said, all right, all right, all right. So I got a bunch of samples of it, jail door slamming, and a guy hitting an anvil with a ball-peen hammer, and a bunch of men in Japan stomping on a wood floor, and all these weird sounds.

9:52And it took us about five, six hours to come up with that ching-ching, dun-dun, dong-dong, ding-ding, whatever the hell you want to call it. And so I sent it over to the dub stage, and Dick goes, man, this is perfect. I've never heard anything like this. It's exactly right. And about a year later, he sends me a note. He goes, you know, isn't it funny? All the great music you've written and on your tombstone will be dun-dun or ding-ding. And he goes, you know, and you didn't even want to do it, you stupid idiot. You know, and I went, yeah, you're right about that. So, yeah, that's how the sound came about.

10:32And, you know, I don't know if anybody cares or anything, But I was a runner for a long time, for 30 years. And, you know, I guess you could carry a little device on your phone. You could play back dun-dun, ching-ching, whatever you call that thing. I guess you could do that, except I think that because of law and order and the darkness of the subject matter, I mean, I don't know if that would calm. It has the opposite effect. Yeah, I'm not sure that would calm anybody. I will tell you this, about the third or fourth year of Law and Order, the original, I got the sweetest, kindest note from a principal from a high school in Cleveland, Ohio.

11:18And she writes me this note, and she says, I'm writing this note to thank you from the bottom of my heart. I work in an urban environment. It's a pretty tough school. And she goes, there's a lot of discipline problems. And she goes, when I have to call Johnny or Sarah to the principal's office, she goes, it was always over the intercom. Johnny Jones, please come to the principal's office. And, you know, she goes, since Law & Order, I preface all those calls to the principal's office with dun-dun. And she goes, my discipline problems have gotten exponentially better because it strikes fear into their hearts.

12:06Yes, right. I just, I cracked up. I thought that was one of the nicest notes I've ever received. That's amazing. So you mentioned that the dun-dun sound is, I think you said, like a prison door slamming. A jail door slamming, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a bunch of different things put together, yeah. And I think you said a bunch of men jumping up and down in Japan? No, stomping on a hardwood floor in a gymnasium and a guy hitting an anvil with a hammer. Okay. So if we were to take a similar approach to composing a new sound for Sam, where we're going to get some samples of different sounds, and we want it to be as friendly as possible.

12:55Yes. What are some sounds you might suggest to come up with a little sonic theme for Sam? You know, one of the sweetest things to me, in my mind, you could do is birds chirping, right? Oh. Or the sound of a little kid's bell on his tricycle. Tinking that sound. Yeah. Right? Or simply, simply, hello. Okay. A soft greeting. Yes, a soft greeting, you know. Okay. Laughter. A little laughter, that's good. Yeah, but on the other hand, that's not so friendly when you're passing somebody. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Let me ask you this question. My understanding is that is a song. That sound effect, or sound, that little five-second bit is actually a song.

13:52Is that right? Well, it's not a song, but it is a piece of music. And if you're asking, do I get paid a royalty every time any piece of music plays? Yeah. Yeah, every time any piece of my music is played, even one second of it, there's a small little royalty that's paid through a performing rights organization. I happen to be a BMI writer. So, yes. Fantastic. So, does it? There is a royalty. Yes. So, Mike, does that then, that five-minute piece, does it have a name that's registered at BMI? Yes, we call it a card stand. Oh, that's kind of boring. It doesn't have like a cool name? No, it has a cool name on a t-shirt.

14:37It has a cool name when people, you know, talk to me about it. It's DuckDun or Ching Ching because I'm making a little money on it. But, yeah. Well, Mike, thank you so much for talking to us about this. This has been so much fun. I'm glad to do it. You know, I'm a big fan of what you guys do radio-wise. That's for darn sure. All right, here we go. We're going to take these sounds. We have birds chirping. We say tricycle bell. Some kind of laughter. So, Sam, or anybody out there who's running and wants to warn somebody you're passing, in a friendly way that won't freak them out, we give you this.

15:24Hello? Mark Artham. And then here again, just because we want to see what it sounds like, here it is again, but this time with 100 men in Japan stomping on a wooden floor. Hello?

15:49If you have a question you'd like us to answer, you can email us at howto at npr.org. And at this point, also, we've probably solved questions you have. You just haven't heard the episode. So we would encourage you to go backwards through our catalog. Maybe you have a song in your head. You can't get it out. We have addressed that. Or maybe your zipper's down or you see somebody who zippers down and you want to know how to tell them that. We can help you with that. So step one, listen to everything we've ever done. And if you still have the problem you have, send us your question at howto at npr.org.

16:36This message comes from Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe. You can send, spend, and receive in up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps. Be smart. Get wise. Download the WISE app today or visit wise.com. T's and C's apply. On Planet Money, we have covered a lot of topics. Like just try searching something on the internet and adding Planet Money to the end of it. Tariff prices, Planet Money. That's an episode. Stop sign war, Planet Money. That too. Alaska halibut derby, Planet Money. If you can ask it, we have probably answered it. Planet Money. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

17:18Well, we want to check in on the you guys fast. That is a thing we just started where we are trying to excise you guys and hey guys from our vocabularies. We invited you all to do this with us. And we've heard from a ton of people who are joining us who've already started doing it and even have some tips. Hello. Hello, Carol. Yes. We're just calling to check in on you on the You Guys Fast. How are you doing with that? Well, I've actually been trying to avoid it for years. It still pops out because my family uses it, but for the most part, I try not to. Yeah, so what solutions have you come up with?

17:55I generally say friends. I am a choir director by profession, so I often say singers instead. Oh, sure. Oh, that's nice. I would try that. I mean, I have no involvement with any choir, but just approaching a group of people and saying, hey, singers, that feels good. Everybody sings. Everybody has a voice. Yeah. I will say we heard from a couple of you. Lon, for instance, said we need to solve real problems instead. Basically, this is why are we doing this? Which, fair point. There are bigger problems in the world. We are incapable of solving them. Hello. So, Joe, you wrote in about your journey with you guys.

18:42Can you tell us about it? Yes. So when I was in the Army with email communications, I noticed that people are using all-con, which said we're all concerned. And I really like that, so I adopted that to it. All-con? Yes, we're all concerned. Okay. That's really cool. I'm just trying to think if we could use that in our work emails, how much effort it would take to get everybody on board. I'm going to try it. All right. Lynn wrote in. She said, I have not said you guys in the years since my son's friend from high school transitioned. She pointed it out to me after I addressed the group of friends as guys.

19:20Since that, I've chosen to use folks. I like the casual and friendly sound of it. Oh, thank you, Lynn. Hi, this is Steve. Hey, Steve. How are you? Good. We're calling to check in on you and you're you guys fast. Well, that's great. Have you, Steve, had any incidents where you've slipped and it's bitten you? Yes. Yeah, I've been called out a few times, mainly by my family. And they say, hey, I thought you weren't going to say that anymore. Yeah, I mean, once you—we're finding this, too—once you kind of declare that you're doing this, you really have a spotlight on you. Yeah, that's true. And you notice it so much more when other people do it now, too.

20:00I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and we have missionaries in our area. We had a couple of young men, 20-year-olds, that were missionaries in our area, and they said it so much, and it was so obvious to me that I actually pulled them aside and gave them a little talk on, you know, why I don't use that, and maybe they ought to think about using a different term also. And it actually went over really well. Wow, you are a missionary for you guys, or for anti-you guys, I guess. I guess so, yeah. Steve, when you pulled those two aside, did you say to them, hey, you guys?

20:40Here's Eunice from Philly. Eunice has some ideas of what you might replace you guys with. Hello, everybody. Hello, party people. Oh, there you go. Or my wife teaches pottery, so she uses high potters. That's her approach. Oh, I like that one. And here's Ari. Ari has even more ideas. So I like to approach a conversation with like people I'm casual with. I might say team to be like, oh, like, hey, team, how's it going? Like sort of that soccer coach vibe. I like to be overly formal on purpose sometimes like by saying, oh, compatriots, esteemed colleagues. Yeah. Well, thank you, Ari. Thanks for all these ideas.

21:23This is great. Yeah. Thanks for the work you guys do. And thanks for making a great show. We consider you a true compatriot. Thank you. So we're going to keep trying. Let us know if you're doing this. Let us know when you fail. We'll let you know when we fail. Hina, is your mic open? Hina, how have you done? I've done pretty bad. Really? Yeah, I've done a lot of... I go back to my texts and edit it, and then it would say edit it underneath, and everyone knows that it used to be you guys and I changed it to you all and I think that I'm making my life a little harder. It's possible in those edited texts Hina called us something worse that she then edited to you all and she's covering it up as if it was part of the you guys fast when really it was something very offensive.

22:15She's on a, yeah, what is the opposite of a fast? Rampage. Yeah, she's on a you'd rampage.

22:25Well, that does it for today's show. What we learned today, Mike. Well, I learned that that sound, the dun-dun sound from Law & Order, is actually a bunch of sounds smashed together. One of which is a hundred men in Japan stomping on a wooden floor. Yeah. How is that an effect that is just, like, available for use? And what are those men doing now? Yeah. Was that the peak of those men's life? Is Law & Order a thing in Japan? Do those men know how woven they are into the fabric of our culture? Do you think that those people are like with their friends or with their family and they're like, hold on, hold on, listen, this is it.

23:07This is me. This is me right here. Or a bug walks by. They stomp it. Do people on the street recognize them? I know that stomp. Wait a minute. Do that again. How to Do Everything is produced by Hina Srivastava. Technical direction from Lorna White. Our intern is Mark Arthon. Mark, I can't say enough about the work you did this week. Yeah, Mark, we really appreciate everything, everything you've done. That's why some of you, when you heard the sound we made for Sam, You may have heard Mark Arthon's name underneath it and wondered, what was that? That was not mentioned. Well, we went back in because there is no happier sound than the name Mark Arthon.

23:58You can send us your questions. Send them to us at howto at npr.org. We promise we read all our emails obsessively. It's honestly, it's weird. I'm Ian. And I'm Mike. Thanks. Thanks.

24:15you