Chemical Reaction

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0:39BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Wake Up To Money from BBC Five Live. Hello, welcome. It is Wake Up To Money and we've had the boss of Amazon in the UK tell us over on our Big Boss interview pod that work experience should be mandatory. But what is needed to make that happen? And elsewhere in big tech, chat GPT owner OpenAI joins the race for cash and investment on the stock markets. Do all these tech advances improve our lives? Do they make you feel better off? And finally, a pub just down the road from the Emirates hoping for a bumper weekend as Arsenal celebrates its Premier League victory.

1:16Wake Up To Money with Sean Farrington. This is Wake Up To Money on BBC Five Live. If you're listening to the Wake Up To Money podcast, you can go and catch the Big Boss Interview podcast on BBC Sounds, wherever you get your podcasts as well. Have a search for that. And do keep your thoughts coming as well. I get the feeling it might generate a bit of a conversation over the next 20 minutes or so. And we will be having that conversation with Nicky Fuchs, co-founder and chief executive of Office Space in Town, OSIT. Do you abbreviate to OSIT, Nicky? Good morning to you. We do. Serviced offices. Morning.

1:50You're based mainly in London, but have some elsewhere as well. Good morning, Nicky. And Jane Foley, head of FX Strategy at Robobank, answerer of every question we've ever put to her on Wake Up To Money. Good morning to you, Jane. Good morning. Now, I would like to talk to you about some of those topics that came up in the interview that we've done with the boss of Amazon in the UK, John Banffrey. There's been messages coming in about work experience, messages coming in about the impact on community or the benefits of this big tech or stuff. And I think the work experience one maybe might capture a lot of people's attention right now, Nicky, because we are talking so much about the jobs market and particularly the way it's going and the impact on young people.

2:37When you've got the boss of Amazon saying, you know, we have to stop blaming young people, it's interesting to hear him talk about how they are actually struggling to recruit the skilled workers they need the areas they need it and they employ people right around the UK does that play out from your perspective do I mean do you see that businesses are really doing all they can to get younger people work experience in their in their offices where they have them on their sites where they have them well I think maybe I can approach it from being a mother as well as a business leader from a from a business leader's perspective Office Space and Town have said to all of our clients and all of our staff, you know, if you've got teenage children, we will give them work experience without questioning it because we think that's part of what we need to do for society.

3:27And I thought it was, it's fascinating, isn't it? They want to force supermarkets to cap their charges, but they wouldn't offer businesses tax breaks to ensure that more give work experience. And, you know, we've got people trying to get into the workplace. they're told they have to have work experience but they can't get it and you can't break that loop. But businesses can and they should and every business, it doesn't matter whether it's half a day or two weeks, every little bit counts and they can accumulate this work experience. It's so important. And we are starting to hear more from the government on this issue about whether that plays out into businesses actually being able and being encouraged to do it.

4:10because we've heard of this youth guarantee scheme. It was something that Boss of Amundsen is referring to as well. And we probably will get more detail on this from the government in the coming weeks as well, because of this figure of one million young people who are not in education or employment or training, and there's going to be a bit of a push for that. What do you think, Nicky, would be the key thing that would persuade those businesses that use your offices to be a bit more open-minded to having people in on work experience? I think it's mindset. I don't think there are really any true restrictions.

4:51The health and safety for under 16, 16-year-olds is relatively simple. But I think it is about mindset. And I think we can do that on a local level, local communities. I thought, you're the person you interviewed for Manson, so I can't remember his name. I thought the way he described their local impact was fantastic and every business can play their part, but it is about mindset. Jane, we will often talk about the state of the UK economy and it might be the numbers that get us into those conversations and that drills down into the real lives that people are experiencing every day. And lately, the issue of increasing youth unemployment and how people make a leap from education into work seems to be becoming a bigger problem for the UK.

5:45It is. And actually, I'm looking at the numbers now. So in terms of the people aged between 16 and 24, youth unemployment is now at 16.2 percent. And that's a horrible number. And I actually think it's now for a while, it's now above the EU rate as well. Now, we all know, of course, that hospitality jobs is where many of us, including myself, you know, would have originally got your initial taste of work experience when we were young. But, you know, those jobs, partly because of minimum wage legislation, but partly because of technology also have been, you know, shutting the door perhaps on a lot of young people.

6:25But, you know, I have kids in their 20s and, you know, I would say that one thing that, you know, young people do have over and above maybe people in their 50s is an ability to take on tech really quite naturally. So to use things like AI is really quite easy for them. There's a mindset problem. I think many people in their 50s are a little bit terrified of what it is, what it can do. Young people do have that advantage that they can walk in. use social media, use AI very naturally. And I think employers will wake up to that. Now, on the issue of whether all this big tech dominance is good for us or not, I was interested, many keep saying that word because it was genuinely interesting to hear.

7:15When Amazon and the bosses there sort of make the case about their impact across the UK, A few people have been getting in touch about some of those topics. Martin in Cheltenham, your Amazon guest is funny, pointing out the wonderful impact on communities, yes, like closing the high streets. I've sold on Amazon for over 15 years, margin squeed, overregulated. Competing directly with sellers, says another person who runs a business that uses the Amazon platform. And we've had Florian get in touch in Oxfordshire saying, Morning. Great during the interview. Made me think differently about tax for big companies.

7:55And maybe we should look at community impact assessment instead. Have a beautiful day. Remember to smile. Thank you for that, Florian, as well. Nicky, how do you view this one? Because it's been a debate for quite some time now. So whether it's are the big tech companies paying their way for the benefits they get from being present in the UK and selling items, building data centres across the UK as Amazon would be. Is it a level playing field at this moment in time? I'm probably not qualified to answer this, but life isn't a level playing field. And if we want these companies to continue to be attracted to the UK, not go to the other areas of the world, Europe, Ireland, then we have to understand that it's not a level playing field.

8:51And they will bring the other benefits, as with anything, you know, the local impact. I mean, it was fascinating to hear that they are paying£3 ,000 more in these other areas for average wage. So the local assessment impact was a great idea from your caller. I think there are other ways that we can see the benefits of these large companies other than just straight tax. 85058, your thoughts on that? And what about the technology itself? Is all of this improving our lives? It's clearly phenomenal innovation that is going on. And Jane, we get a glimpse of that in the headlines again this morning when we talk about big tech companies, relatively new ones as well.

9:41one way or another. Elon Musk's SpaceX has dominated headlines this week because it might list on a stock market and make him a trillionaire. And now this morning, we're reading that OpenAI, the maker of ChatGPT, looks like it's going to be taking its first steps to list on a stock market and let the world invest in it as well. Indeed. And the timing of this is really very interesting because, of course, investors have only so much cash to go around. And I think OpenAI want to get this news out there so people don't spend everything they've got on SpaceX. But also, perhaps more importantly for OpenAI, they perhaps want to go public ahead of Anthropic, who've been talking about going public too.

10:23And again, to make sure that they get what they want or they see as fair in terms of their share of investors' money. But the valuations for some of these companies are potentially huge. So for OpenAI, they may have a valuation north of$1 trillion. And of course, SpaceX could be even bigger than that. There's quite a wide band of speculation as to how large that valuation could be. So this is going to be quite exciting times, really, for investors. And meanwhile, in the background, there's other stories emerging. And these stories are really that this technology is going more mainstream, you know, that the that the people using it are perhaps bigger than we thought before.

11:06And that came through from the Nvidia earnings earlier on in the week. And that's coming through in what people are buying in stocks and shares around the world. So, for instance, you know, buying computer companies sort of linked with that. So it's not just about the semiconductors anymore. It's not just about the software. It's also about hardware stories as well. Now, investors, whether it's people thinking of putting something into an ISA or some of the world's biggest investors putting money into these companies, want a return. That's the point. So what is it they're really investing in here, Jane?

11:41Are we going to be seeing the benefits of this innovation? Well, the benefits really will come down to productivity. So that's just output per head for each of us workers. And that, well, many economists have really quite strong views on that. Some people are a little bit more dubious, but I think, you know, very quickly, some of those sceptics are being overridden really by the news that's coming out. So, for instance, I don't know if you have used some of this AI technology recently, but, you know, the changes from what it can do now to even six months, certainly a year ago, are huge. So I think most people who do use it are continuing being blown away with what it can do.

12:25Now, we've already spoken about the jobs market. It will, it is having a big impact on the jobs market, certainly. But in terms of productivity, I think anyone who's using it can see how it can really open up what each of us can actually do on any working day. Now, Nikki, do you find, this may be more of a personal question than in the world of business at the moment, when you're looking at these AI tools that are on the way, Have you found something yet in your personal life that has improved your productivity and actually maybe freed up some time for you to do more of what you enjoy, not just more of something else, which can often be the question around all this stuff.

13:11What is it really, really worth to us all? Yeah, well, I am that 50 year old dinosaur that you were talking about earlier. So co-pilot. I'm co-pilot. I'm just getting to grips with the very basic version of that and how it can help me with my emails. Instead of trawling through 100 emails in the morning, getting my summary, getting my priorities right. And using the 80-20 rule, which is phenomenal. So that 80-20, what's that? That's some productivity guru approach, isn't it? Go on, tell us. It's a Friday morning, but we can save it for Monday. I think it's a very basic principle that 80 % of your time is spent on 20 % of your activity.

14:03So 80 % of your income comes from 20 % of your activity. So you just have to be really focused on the few things that are going to shift you dramatically. Don't do a tick list because ticking things off your list isn't productive. Okay. In very basic terms. And some of these AI tools have helped you sort of with that a little bit. Yes, definitely co-pilot. You know, emails take up so much time and people blind copy you in on things you don't need to know. They're just covering their back. So, yeah, that's where I've started in my dinosaur world. And I think for us it's about spending more time with people, whether it's more time with your staff, more time with your clients, and that time is the gift that AI gives us.

14:48Beck in Swansea has just been in touch talking about us in our 50s. Nikki, this is Beck saying she's in that cohort as well. She says, I'm disappointed to hear the usual young people are more able to use AI than us in our 50s. I teach teenagers. I see the majority are very narrow in how they use their phones and tech. I've embraced AI to assist and support my role because I have the maturity and experience to understand how to interpret it. Beck, thank you so much for your message this morning. Keep them coming. 85058. Our chat with the boss of Amazon, which you can catch on the Big Boss Interview podcast, has generated a fair bit of talk this morning.

15:24Let's have a look about something different now, the resilience of the British economy and particularly the chemical industries. They've been given a bit of a boost by measures announced by Rachel Reeves. She said there'd be going to be a fund for companies making strategically important chemicals. So the government hopes as a£350 million fund will help strengthen some of these critical supply chains, help support thousands of skilled jobs along the way, they say. Sharon Todd is Chief Executive of the Society of Chemical Industries. Sharon, very good morning to you. What is the issue here that the government is trying to alleviate a little bit?

16:01Yes, good morning, Sean. Yes, the announcement yesterday was very welcome. This has really come on the back of a significant decline in manufacturing capabilities in the UK over the last 10 years. But that decline has been accelerating. And that has meant that we've lost core capabilities to make critical things in the UK. What that's done is left us very exposed to supply chain shocks. And obviously, with the Iran situation that we now have, the UK is suffering from significant supply chain shocks. And so this money, could you give us an example of some of the industries that we will often talk about?

16:42You know, when you see the areas where some of the industries are focused, they come up on Wake Up To Money quite a lot. But which ones will it help in particular? Yeah, sure. There's been no detail yet of where the money will be allocated. That's all to be worked. But just to give you an example, there's a product called Ammonia, which I'm sure your listeners will know. about it's a really critical fertilizer. It's basically used to feed the global population. 25 % of that supply comes through the Strait of Hormuz. That product relies on gas as a feedstock, not as an energy source, but as a feedstock.

17:20And the UK has had manufacture for probably about 40 or 50 years. In 2025, we shut down the last manufacturing plant because of high costs in the UK. This isn't a market issue. This is a UK specific issue. What's going on has meant that there's been a huge issue with global supply. Prices have increased by 20 to 30 percent. And the experts are noting what the impact is going to have in terms of our ability to feed the population on the next food cycle coming round. So here's an area where we've just lost critical capability that is now essential in the UK and also globally. And that, I think, is a situation that needs to be addressed.

18:07I think the fundamental issue here is that the business model in the UK for manufacturing is broken. It's a self-inflicted position. And whilst this 350 is very welcome from the UK, I think it's important to note the scale of investment that we really need to build back is probably 10 times that. Right. And when you say it's broken, is that just energy prices are too high or is it more than that? That's the fundamental point, Sean. Energy prices are way too high. It's impossible for manufacturers to compete in a global setting, which they have to do. But there are other issues such as regulatory costs as well.

18:45So there's sort of a multiplier effect, but the fundamental issue is energy costs. And just briefly, Sharon, as an example, we've talked about, say, Grangemouth and the materials that are required at the site in Scotland, not just the raw materials, but the materials that are required out of the production and the refining that goes on in various different chemical plants. We've talked about some closures over the years, some that are still going. Is that an example of a kind of industry and workforce that may be supported to some extent by this? Yes, yes, absolutely. We'd expect to see some of this money coming down into places like Granger Earth in Scotland, into manufacturing clusters in the northeast and the northwest east side, for example.

19:35As I say, all the details have to be worked. but we would expect to see those manufacturing clusters looking to be rebuilt with some investment. Sharon, thank you for your time this morning. Sharon Todd there from the Society of Chemical Industries represented in the industry, their chief executive of that group. Thank you for all of your messages. Nikki, we had this one come in saying, AI is poised to make schools more effective as for the first time in history teachers can now target support for the needs of individual students using just the teacher superpower language skills um others get in touch with benefits they've seen perhaps more in the workplace than in their personal life do you feel nikki as you know you've had both hats on for us on wake up to money this morning that that that more of the benefits are being seen for for businesses and employers um yes i mean it's difficult from our perspective we are very much a hospitality business although we are property based so we're very much about being people focused so ai for us is about automation of our processes to give us more time to do that and we are seeing that slowly but massively we're seeing it in our marketing and it is being transformational ai in our marketing approach so for us that's where the big impact is just briefly which bit of marketing how does that work for people maybe do their own personal marketing for businesses here and you say that what should they be going out and using today well so we use i don't know if i'm allowed to use the name of the platform we use a platform called hubspot and uh we use an ai platform called apollo it helps us with managing our databases, our automation, automatic flow of communication, the topics to speak to people about.

21:29So all of that, and AI is really revolutionising that for us and increasing our conversion rates. Always very useful to hear what the new things are that are going on. Jane, just briefly, I wanted to wrap up the week a little bit with whether it's oil price movements that we're watching so much, the movement of the cost of borrowing for the UK government, the bond market. I know you watch both of those pretty closely. What's been the story of the week? Well, you know, for the UK specifically, I think it has to go back to the poor data that we had. Now, we've again touched on the labour market.

22:02The labour market data is loosening quite a lot, much more than the market expected. And that, if you like, has had a calming effect on the gilt market. The gilt market worried about a shift to the left for the Labour Party, which may mean more spending, maybe more bond issuance. But the economy is slowing down. And that means less inflation potential. So that had a calming effect on the bond market. Bad news is good news for the gilts market. And also, that might mean that there's less reason for the Bank of England to hike interest rates, because we are essentially in a supply shock. And what the Bank of England, why they potentially would raise interest rates was to bring demand down to match the lack of supply.

22:46But actually, if the economy is slowing already, well, how much do they really do need to hold back demand? Because it's doing it by itself. So less indication that the Bank of England may have to hike interest rates aggressively, maybe once, maybe not at all. And we see a slightly calmer bond market this week. And of course, Andy Burnham indicating that he would hold on to Reeves' fiscal rules. That had a big harming effect early in the week too. 85058 if you want to get in touch and if you want to pay attention to any of the election stuff that's going on in Maker Field, you can go to the BBC website, see all the candidates there.

23:23Right, to North London now. Patrick Fitzsimmons is the owner of the Faltering Fallback, a pub that is just down the road from Arsenal Stadium, the Emirates, but not a million miles away from where a load of Tottenham fans might be living as well. Patrick, good morning to you. What weekend is in store for you? It's celebrations from one of those two and nervousness about a relegation from the Premier League from the other. Good morning. It's a fantastic weekend in store and it's great to be safe and acknowledge that Arsenal have it in the bag. We're not on tenterhooks, but I'm sure everybody will have one eye on what's happening with the Spurs game too.

24:04It's going to be a nervy finish for them. Well, if they stay up as well, I think there'll be double celebration almost. Could you see them arm in arm around the bars in your pub? I would like to think so. The North London Derby is always a very special occasion, so it would be terrible to lose something like that. What's the week been like? Because many will have seen the pictures of Arsenal fans celebrating all through the night on night one. Have you noticed it throughout the week? I mean, anybody who knows an Arsenal fan will have noticed it. They mention it soon enough. But actually, are you seeing more cash come over the counter?

24:46It's been a fantastic week. I mean, to have Arsenal last game at home on Monday, everybody's on a high with the expectation. Nobody dreamed that it was going to happen on Tuesday night. But thankfully Bournemouth did us a favour. and yeah, the celebrations that everybody saw was amazing. And do you have to change anything for the weekend ahead now, Patrick, given that it could well be, I mean, the weather as well, it could be an absolute barnstormer? It will be, the whole area will come alive. It isn't just that, there's rugby finals on as well, European rugby finals with two Irish teams going up against French teams to get the revenge from Six Nations as well.

25:34So on the Friday and Saturday, and then obviously leading into Sunday, the last day, we'd be expecting to have people outside from very early on Sunday morning. I wondered, Patrick, whether you'd get the rugby in somewhere. The name of the pub is, that's the essence I'm guessing. The one time I have actually had a great old evening in your pub has been watching rugby in the past when I've been in London. So, yeah, a busy one. I mean, can you get everybody in? Well, no, no. I believe the whole area will be oversubscribed that day. I think it's going to be a lively one. We'll do our best to fit as many as we can in, but we would expect to be very full from pretty much opening.