Heat waves and tensions cool?

28:15I wouldn't want to exaggerate. But it is going to get much harder to offer people those extra hours because the risk is you then have to contract for those hours forever. Of course you can't afford to stop your shop to have the same number of people in your shop in February as you have in the round of Christmas. This all comes back to one thing and that is that unless the government can do things to stimulate the wider economy, to get growth back into the economy, we are going to have not just problems in terms of unemployment but problems in terms of tax revenues as well. So what government should be focusing on is not micromanaging youth unemployment but getting the whole economy moving and that means reforming planning, energy policy, transport policy to really get the economy moving.

29:00You consistently deliver around a billion pounds in profit, over a billion, and some people will say when it comes to you doing your calculations, the shareholders always win and the workers come second. I mean ultimately when you run a business you have to make sure that you're keeping everyone happy. You have to pay your colleagues enough to make sure that you're recruiting the right people. You have to treat your suppliers well to make sure you're getting the right stock. You have to pay your landlords enough to get the right property. And if you do all those things, then you'll make enough money for your shareholders.

29:32So you've got to balance all of those things. But you do have to make a profit. And, you know, if you look at retail over the last 25 years, if I go back to when I was sales director for Next and walked up and down the high street, going into every single shop on the high street to have a look at what others were doing, 70 to 80 percent of the names that were there then have gone and what you can't do is say well we just won't run the business for profit because if you don't run the business for profit you just don't stay in business the government says it's got the right economic plan part of that economic plan is closer ties with europe now you were a prominent brexit advocate um the vast majority of economists say we've got lower gdp than we otherwise would have had we've got weaker trade particularly in goods exports.

30:15We've got reduced investment, lower productivity. Is it time to admit that Brexit was a mistake? I think it's a terrible mistake to be arguing about Brexit at all, when we've got things like we can't build the houses we need in Britain because of our planning system. Our road networks are grinding to a halt. Our energy is some of the most expensive energy in the whole world. And we want to go back into three or four years of bickering about Brexit. The government that we have at the moment came to power with a thumping majority on the base of no new oil and gas licenses, higher wages for workers, greater employment rights, and they won by a landslide.

30:54That's democracy for you and all the things that you say you don't like. But interestingly, it hasn't worked. That is the problem with coming into government with nice sounding slogans that are politically easy, but economically the second and third effects are disastrous. Winning office, becoming prime minister is not an achievement. Being a great prime minister, that's an achievement. And that's what all the parties running for government should be focusing on. Would you back Rachel Reeves staying on if there was a change in the Labour leadership? What the markets need is stability. And I think to have, if a change in Chancellor meant that business was unsure as to what was going to happen to the tax and spend rules in government, the responsibility of the Treasury, that would be a very bad thing.

31:49So at this point, I think stability is a good thing. And of course, that's an argument for the status quo. Keep Reeves. I think it's an argument for stability. That was the next Chief Executive, Simon Wolfson, Lord Wolfson speaking to our business editor, Simon Jack. You can hear plenty more of that on the Big Boss interview on BBC Sounds, that podcast there. Go and have a listen to that. If you didn't catch our interview with the boss of Amazon last week as well here in the UK, that is on there where, interestingly, one of his big concerns was about younger people and how they get onto that career ladder and where those skills might be coming from next.

32:30Thank you for your messages. Interestingly, we've had one get in touch saying if you're going to quote Lord Wolfson on jobs, you should also point out he backed Brexit and asking how many new jobs that has created, asking what he's doing to widen opportunity. And we heard Simon, business head to Simon Jack, put that point of Brexit and being closer to the European Union, to the boss of Next there. Do keep your messages coming. Some really interesting ones about getting on the career ladder and those entry-level opportunities that the boss of Next is concerned about disappearing. Some interesting points from all aspects of this.

33:06Wake Up To Money with Sean Farrington. Good morning, Wake Up To Money on BBC5 Live. Thank you for being with us on this Tuesday morning. hopefully it wasn't too sweaty a night if you're just getting up for your day ahead if you are just getting back after a night shift not easy to sleep during the day is it with uh with weather like this hopefully it's going to cool down in the coming days but good luck if you've got the the fans the strategies cold shower before you get into bed um hopefully you get a bit of rest throughout the day thank you for all of your messages about entry-level opportunities and And the comments from the boss of Next, a variety of comments from the boss of Next that we've heard, speaking to our business editor, Simon Jack.

33:53And many asking what needs to happen to help people get on that career ladder. And whether that's early opportunities for work placements, work experience, whatever that might be. Big Gaz has been in touch. Always good to hear from you, Gaz. Thank you for your message this morning. He says, I've worked with young people for nearly 30 years. Wish them all the luck in the world starting a career. However, I find really basic communication skills need improving. Go to an international burger chain, drive through, you're often grunted at. My daughter told me people in her peer group can actually select silent hairdressing appointments when they request not to be spoken to or with.

34:28All a direct consequence of social media and an addiction to screens that we've lost the art of basic communication and politeness. He says he always enjoys the sun. Very interesting. We've got Harriet Kelso with us, who's the boss of Harriet Kelso Bespoke Jewelry, showrooms across the south of England, and also has a daughter who is currently looking to try and get a bit of a weekend job at the moment, 16-year-old daughter. Harriet, that point from Gaz there about communication skills, you more widely need improving. I know you made the pitch that your daughter has got many strengths in that area.

35:04But more widely, do you see that being an issue, either as a recruiter yourself or just seeing what's going on amongst your daughter's peers? Personally, I don't see that. I know it's something that people say a lot. And I do think social media has really changed a lot of things about all of us, not just young people, about the way that we communicate and about attention span and how quickly you can sort of expect to get more stimulation. But I think when it comes to communication skills, the young people that I meet, both employing them and talking to people in my studios and my daughter's friends, they're great.

35:44I mean, they communicate really well. They're actually, I suppose, in a way, because they're used to having to communicate in quite short sentences and putting things on social media and actually generating their own content. I actually think they're quite good at getting things across quite succinctly and quite eloquently compared to maybe how we were. I think it's easy to forget what we were probably like at that age. I think it's not that different, really. George, George Gobra is with us this morning, fund manager at Polar Capital. George, I'm sort of going to use this topic, but to change tack a little bit with that message we just had in about how social media might be bad for people.

36:25because one of the headlines people will be waking up to this morning on the front page of the BBC website, the front page of the Times this morning, social media is the new smoking, medics warn. Pressure grows on the Prime Minister to back ban for under-16. So, you know, tying in quite a lot with what Gaz is saying there, that actually some of the major developments that big tech have brought us in the last decade, which has included social media, has not actually been good for that sector. Do you, for younger people, Do you feel that there's a bit of a weight now, a heavier weight on big technology and we might see some major drastic changes in that world?

37:03I totally do. But the problem is, you know, it's patently obvious that kids shouldn't have a phone in school. You know, I'm not saying that, you know, people are worried about them walking to school and being safe. with it i mean you shouldn't have a phone in a classroom it was patently obvious and yet we're still they still do i mean and you know so just this it just makes me so cross that you know the that this is very clearly something needs to happen here and yet it doesn't and we just sort of talk about it and we still sort of go you know around and there may be some sort of policy that will be bluntly completely unenforceable brought in but you know technology has lots of benefits But it's like everything in life.

37:47It does need to be rationed and taken in moderation. I think that's sort of horrible stuff. Like the average five-year-old in the UK spends something like five hours a day on social media. I mean, that is just like completely nuts. So don't be surprised that we're sort of cooking up big problems. So that's the doctors of the UK or medics of the UK concerned about social media from big tech. And then, George, on the front page of the Financial Times, amongst other places, the Pope getting involved, saying that artificial intelligence needs to be disarmed in warning over techs. I actually don't know how you pronounce this word.

38:21Idolatry of profit? I'll go with that. Anyway, they're all after profit and the consequences. They're not thinking about humanity more widely. Another angle, George, of us saying, or somebody saying, somebody of influence saying, big tech is not thinking about the consequences of the stuff it's rolling out here. Yeah, quite a sort of punchy statement stance here. I think reading what I've read is a couple of articles. There's one in the FT. And what he's saying is, you know, he's sort of likening the church stance that should be like. It's like, you know, being on nuclear weapons. That, you know, we've got to disarm because there are big issues at foot here that have societal issues.

39:08And I think it's very obvious wherever you stand in this debate that the companies behind this have become incredibly powerful and incredibly influential and that they are bigger than most governments and therefore sort of bully most governments. And so, you know, I think he's sort of, you know, taking a sort of different stance and saying, well, not everything that's coming out is sort of good news. And, you know, we need to, you know, focus on the values that they believe in. And I think fair enough, you know, that's what he's supposed to do in his job. It's quite a punchy statement. So I thought, yeah, good on him.

39:44Well, let's see how that all plays out and whether any changes will come from those big tech companies. Let's turn our attention to childcare now. The subject of government funded childcare is something we've chatted about a lot on this programme. All the different rules and regulations can be a minefield for affected parents. These days we hear that phrase free hours. It isn't quite the whole story, is it? Many nurseries charge for the likes of food, nappies that aren't covered by the funding providers receive, but the costs they pass on can vary significantly. The Education Secretary, Bridget Phillipson, has now asked the competition's watchdog to look at the hidden costs and carry out a review into the early years childcare sector.

40:24I've got Claire Richmond with us, who's manager and director at Gosling's Nursery in Coventry. Claire, good morning. What did you make of seeing the Education Secretary say the regulator needs to have a look at your industry because of this. Oh, please. So, I mean, the competition and market authority should be looking at the fact that governments are our biggest buyer of ours, and they price fix the industry. So our local authority pay the same rates every setting across our city, and it varies local authority by local authority. But they purchase 60 % to 80 % on average of child care providers' hours.

41:02So that should be looked at. surely they can't take that kind of market share and price fix it we're not allowed to top that up we're not allowed to charge more than that um obviously as providers we limit the hours we might allocate um because they're the ones we have absolutely no sway over um what we're getting paid for those places so it kind of kills creativity it kills innovation of being the best setting that does forest school that sends teachers on that that have the highest qualified staff. So do you think nurseries are using these add-ons as that one area of control they have over how much money they bring in so maybe charging sort of more for food and nappies than it you know is actually costing them and looking to make a return on it?

41:46I actually think that settings are not massively exploiting this and there are obviously a handful of settings but our local authority have quite robust contracts with us and threaten to pull funding all of the time over non-compliance so the local authorities are already charged with making sure that providers are clear on what they can and can't do with charging they must be reasonable that is mentioned all the time obviously not quantified however where a parent's got a concern it should be the local authority they're um going back to the local authority should be investigating that it doesn't need a national investigation as a bit of a pr campaign um what we actually need to do is save the money from that and spend it on the chronic underfunding of this hourly rate in the first place so it's just a waste of money would you rather be have be able to have more control over what you're charging for your child care would would that be a better route i personally think give the money to parents to spend on the child care that they feel is the best for their child the government are trying to force us out as a sector to be able to effectively run all of the provision in the uk that it's quite clear that their idea is to get all the children into school or school-led provision and basically take our market share slowly and gently.

43:02Things like the new way in which they have a tool so that parents can assess their income and expenditure as a home. That will be filtering them all to government-based sites and government-suggested childcare, just like the childcare choices page was. It became Better Start, which is government-funded nursery. If it went down that route, so let's say the money was given directly to parents to decide exactly where they want to spend it on childcare and therefore parts of the private childcare sector like yourselves would then have an ability to set prices where you wanted to. Would that mean that...

43:41What would happen to the price of childcare if you were pricing it where you felt it ought to be? Well, it's kind of a put your money where your mouth is because they did that but they made sure that their provision was 100 % deposit free and free to access, etc., like their ideology is, just in those school-based settings, they'll see that that doesn't work, that that is not sustainable, that they can't run it for that amount of money. However, while they've got it in the system they've got it in, we also can't match schools. We don't get the same rate of schools. We don't have the benefit of a massive premises where we share costs and overheads.

44:21We're individually funding our own settings. The costs are different, yet they get paid more per hour. The money's got to come from somewhere, I guess, Claire, for all of this, one way or another. Do you think as a nation, for those parents that, in their mind, are those employers of those parents that want those parents to be able to be in work in those certain hours, working those certain hours when that childcare might be needed, are we undervaluing how much childcare actually should be? absolutely i think the only sector that can actually um meet the needs the government are funding is childminders um obviously they have less overheads than a nursery but also they can offer the flexibility they can still offer the creativity on the budget um they should be the ones that parents are looking at um as the best option to best fit their needs fit just the hours they need for work and not be able to pay in with forced long days i know at our setting we only have whole days it it doesn't work out to have part-time children and school days because no one's going to buy the hours at beginning and end of the day but a child minor can do after school children so that's the sector we should be allowing to have all of this funding thank you claire you lay that out very clearly for us this morning claire richmond there who tells exactly what it's like financially running gosling's nursery in coventry there um harriet you know Do you see that if businesses want people to be working the hours they do and they want the number of people working across the UK to be, the levels that they're at, do businesses need to do a bit more and think a bit more about how we fund the childcare issue that we have here in the UK?

46:04Yeah, I think it's really difficult because everybody wants childcare to be affordable, but obviously somebody's got to pay for that care. I remember back when a lot of my team were having babies, as they still do, we are by coincidence rather than design extremely female heavy, about 85%. We did even look into, you know, is there some way we could have a creche because we'd love to do that, but we just couldn't afford to. And it felt like, you know, running a different business. But I heard recently that quite a lot of big businesses that used to have crash facilities for their staff can't do that anymore.

46:43And it seems to be quite difficult for companies to help in that way, which makes real sense. Because to be able to actually have your child close by when you're working would just be brilliant. And also, I think, you know, thinking about the fact that we do have so many women working with us, I think it's actually really worrying because if childcare gets too expensive, it's not just a kind of family issue for those people. It's actually an economic one and a leadership one, because what often then happens is after a couple of kids, if they can't really afford those childcare places, then talented women in particular will often step back from careers for long periods because it's just all become financially or practically difficult or impossible.

47:27And then that leads to all kinds of other problems with long term effects on leadership, females on boards, management and actual representation higher up. If you've had a really long career break, sometimes that can break your confidence for a while to get back into the working world. So I think it's got huge implications across everything. I think childcare is so important to sort out for the economy as well as the families. child care and entry level opportunities we're getting to the nub of uh working life and and the working situation in the uk on wake up to money this morning do keep your thoughts coming in 85058 uh if you're heading out today maybe you've got a bit of time off with your kids at half term whatever that might be and you're contemplating making that ice cream purchase they've nagged you all weekend for an ice cream every day and it's happening again today well have a think for those running those businesses in the hot weather you can hear a little bit here from Sharon Clark who's the owner of Nicey Icy in Siem in the northeast of England said she hopes a good summer will get her through the winter brings all the kids down brings the tourists in but what we need is the people coming back everyday hustle and bustle you can come down through the weekend it's empty if we have a crack in summer then that'll get me through the winter if we don't I think this will be the end this might be my last summer and I hope it's not So just a reminder there how tough that can be running another retail business, hospitality business if you were to call that what it is when it's parked at the bottom of your park drive as you're in the playground at lunchtime today, well maybe not at lunchtime, keep out of that midday sun but just a reminder if the queues are long maybe worth sticking with them for the ice cream retailers around the country because there's not many days that they get like this to be able to see them through the winter as Sharon Clark put it there.

49:24Are you having a thought as well for those who were nervously watching the football at the weekend? Always brings a fair bit of drama. There's elation for those winning leagues. We don't need to talk about them too much, do we? How about securing promotion? What about despair for those facing relegation now? Some of us have been facing that for quite some months now but others, it went right down to the wire and the weekend just gone was no different. And on the final day, Tottenham have secured a 49th successive season of top-flight football. There is a feeling of relief as well as celebration on a day of fluctuating emotions.

50:06But Roberto De Zerbi was brought in to do the job and that he has done. and it means the West Ham United, five miles away, will be relegated from the Premier League for a third time. 49 years in a row in the Premier League doesn't really seem fair, does it? Keith Winas is former chief executive of Aberdeen, Everton, Aston Villa, now a sports investment advisor at RMG Investments. Morning, Keith. Good morning, Sean. Let's talk more. Well, it will be what Tottenham were worried about, but actually what West Ham now have to face. When you're a club that has only been relegated from the Premier League three times in its history and obviously has bounced back a fair few times, big club, what are the main consequences going to be for West Ham right now?

50:56How big a hit? There's some pretty severe consequences given the individual state that West Ham is in right now. I mean, the first big one will be the revenue drop. Last year, they reported figures of about 226 million. I expect that to drop to maybe about 120 being in the championship, so severe drop. Now, of course, that means wages have to go down, and they reported a wage bill of about 176 million. That'll have to be adjusted down to about 80 million. So the whole player situation is a big one, and they may have to sell between 10 and 15 players, which is a whole revamp of the squad. On the surface and outward looking, you will often, if you're a fan, I'm a Wolves fan, so I've been well aware of what the Wolves have been saying to fans in recent weeks with a relegation from the Premier League.

51:48But when you're in charge at a place like West Ham and you want to keep the optimism there somehow, that you want the fans to come back next season, you want people to be spending money with the club, how different is the message you might be hearing from these clubs compared to what is the concerns that are going on behind the scenes? Well I took over Aston Villa the season they were relegated as well and the good news I suppose is that the fans did still support the club and turned up for matches because they enjoyed seeing the team winning again which is probably the silver lining to a degree but the fact is you're going to have to build a squad for the championship and that means a different squad than was in the Premier League and West Ham have got a big challenge to do that and the clock is really ticking as of today to get these sort of things right there's major shareholder decisions have got to be made in terms of support for the club as well because the and there's the whole stadium issue which of course and you know please follow the London stadium story the fans have not been happy with it.

52:55So, yeah, tell us a bit more about that story. What was the Olympic Stadium in 2012 that ended up in the control of West Ham United? But what are the ripple effects of having a big old ground like that in the championship where actually, you know, there's still money flowing from the club to the taxpayers of London, isn't there? Yes, there is. And there'll be a chance for the club to renegotiate an even smaller lease payment than they had already. And the taxpayer will be left with that bill just now, certainly. But the bigger issue is that it's well documented. The fans have been very unhappy with the stadium.

53:39It's got the old athletics track problem, which many stadiums have had. The atmosphere has never been the best. And I think it's going to be difficult if they do start getting crowds of maybe 30 ,000, 40 ,000. The atmosphere will be even less. And that also affects the team in terms of the performance, trying to get back up. Do you think there'll be investors, maybe you've had conversations yourself with some in the industry, who might be looking at this as an opportunity to buy a big club in London with a big stadium that they've seen in the past be successful in the Premier League? Well, that's a difficult question because right now the two major shareholders, which is Daniel Kratinsky, which I'm sure you'll remember the name from buying the Royal Mail, and David Sullivan.

54:25I think there may be a bit of a power struggle there in terms of who's going to actually run the football side of things because it hasn't obviously gone well this season. Now, if they can't reach agreement, then I think there may be some room for them to say, OK, maybe we pass this on to somebody else. But there's a lot of issues, as I say, financially, squad-wise, a lot of things around West Ham and the stadium issue that would give investors some pause for thought at the very least. Keith, you've got 30 seconds. Seeing Aston Villa's successes now, what decision do you think, when you look back at when you're in charge when they're in the Championship, was the big one you made that helped them get back to where they are?

55:03I think it'll be the manager and the revamp of the squad. You've got to rebuild that squad to get out of the Championship and then rebuild again to stay in the Premiership. That's the problem they've got right now. There you go. Keith Wynes, thank you for your time this morning. Former boss of Aberdeen Everton Villa as well. Big thanks to George. Harriet, thank you for your time. Thank you for all of your messages this morning as well. Wow. Entry level opportunities and work really got everybody talking. That is it from Wake Up To Money. Wake Up To Money from BBC Five Live. that's it from wake up to money you can download the podcast every monday to friday so please make sure you subscribe we'd also love it if you left us a review when you do get in touch keep the conversation going anytime as well on social media use the hashtag wake up to money five live sports so here's the first ball of this series all the cricket you love Check for LBW.

55:59Ouch. Lives on BBC Sounds. Smash straight back down the ground, this girl. Hear ball-by-ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits. It's a ball cricket and it's the huge one. Jeez, whoosh. Settle down, toughness. Sorry, mate. Cricket on Five Live Sport. Oh, I've lived every ball of this. Listen on BBC Sounds.

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