The Festivals of Britain

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:29CFO. LinkedIn has a word for that. Bull spend. Now you can invest in what looks good to your CFO. LinkedIn ads generates the highest ROAS of all major ad networks. You'll reach the right buyers because you can target by company, industry, job title, and more. So cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn. The network that works for you. Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a 250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com slash broadcast. That's linkedin.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. Enjoy the sunshine with sales on grill ready favorites from Whole Foods Market.

1:14Take cookouts to sizzling new heights with their marinated salmon and made in house marinated beef and chicken. Entertain with low price 365 brand chips and dips like hummus and guacamole and sweeten every party with brown butter chocolate chip cookies. Remember to pack the cooler with probiotic sodas, sparkling waters and more. Summer savings await you at Whole Foods Market. Wake Up To Money from BBC Five Live. Hello, welcome. It is Wake Up To Money. Donald Trump's tariffs are back, but for a different reason. We're going to hear from the boss of a major festival set for July about why it's been cancelled.

1:54Chinese cars are going to be made in Sunderland. And are we ready for more use of AI in dating apps? Wake Up To Money with Sean Farrington. I've got Lucy Cootes with me, JM Finns Investment Director, head of their York office. Lucy, very good morning to you. Good morning. And got Tina Smith with us as well, Chief Executive of Ricoh's International Region. Tina, very good morning to you. Good morning. Tina, just remind us, I don't say Ricoh's International Region, And Ricoh is a brand that people may well be familiar with. You know, they're thinking printers. Just tell us what you do at Ricoh. Yes, so we're a global Japanese technology company.

2:35You're absolutely right. Most people will know us for printing and that's definitely where we come from. Part of a much broader story now, we're all about transforming workplaces, digitally enabled workplaces and connecting people. So, Tina, digitally enabled workplaces, connecting people. I mean, some of those things resonate a bit from my chat I was just having with the chief executive of Hinge there. What do you make of us, where we've used technology for so long, so dating is one area that has been completely transformed over the last couple of decades because of the growth of technology and our use of smartphones and our willingness to interact online.

3:15And now we're going through another technological revolution, evolution, whatever you want to call it. And those things we've been used to dealing with online, could they well change quite considerably again? I think they could. And I think I listened to the conversation you were having with Jackie. And I think that what's being said there is reflects the broader challenge. I think that everybody like us as individuals as well, we're looking for ways to use technology, whether it's AI or anything else, in ways that actually kind of genuinely help people rather than just sort of automating interactions.

3:49or, you know, in the case of a dating app, just keeping you on the dating app. So I think we're looking for different things from technology now, looking at how tech can actually enhance the human experience. So I think we're kind of reframing our relationship with tech a little bit there. Martin and Clitheroe's been in touch saying, yes, of all the dating apps I use, I feel that more women on Hinge are interested in meeting in real life rather than messaging forever and then ghosting, which still happens, but less so. So others saying, Brendan saying, it's not a coincidence our workforce and the hours work shrinks along with workers working online and from home.

4:24So therefore more people not mixing and socialising at work now need to be dating online. This country needs more people working more hours mixing, mingling, socialising to put some pride back into this great country and its young people. Lucy, the developments of where we spend our time. You know, the fact that Jackie from Hinge was talking so much about loneliness and somebody getting into it saying there's a difference between loneliness and being alone, but the not socialising as much. I mean, we've seen that have a ripple effect on the world of hospitality, the world of retail to some extent as well, haven't we?

5:03yeah we have I mean remarkably so um and I think it is our whole way of working has shifted um since the pandemic and you know we have adjusted there have been benefits um you know we get uh post-graduates sort of coming into uh their first job and you know but they they expect you know two days working from home that's what they expect but you know you do miss out on those daily interactions with colleagues if it is more than that now let's have a look at developments in the world of tariffs they are back it seems i mean they never really went away but they're certainly ramping up again because america donald trump has announced new additional tariffs on dozens of countries, including the UK, so covering almost all what would be exports to the United States.

5:58So when those goods arrive in the United States, they will be taxed. That's how these tariffs work. So if they actually end up being enforced, there's been a bit of a question mark over the last year or so of to what extent they'll be enforced, whether they're legal. But if these are enforced, the tariffs of between 10 and 12.5 % will be imposed on countries that the US Trade Department says have failed to address the importing of goods made with forced labour. So here's the US Trade Representative Jameson Greer speaking to France 24 about these new planned tariffs. When you think about the tariffs that we had in place last year, these tariffs were in place due to the enormous trade deficit we have with the world, and some were particularly severe.

6:45Driving all of these deficits, we believe, among other things, are unfair trading practices. After doing an investigation, we found that many countries either did not have laws to prevent trade in goods made with forced labour or if they did have the laws, they weren't effectively enforcing them. This is an unfair trading practice we think distorts global trade and we want to take care of it. So, Lucy, what's this about from America's perspective? Because, you know, we've not heard them really use this reasoning before in their implementation of tariffs globally. We know they use tariffs to try and tackle other issues that might be away from the direct trading relationships between countries.

7:25But where's this come from? Well, we have to, you're quite right earlier in the piece that the Liberation Day trials were struck as legally, they were invoked by the Supreme Court in February this year. And the subsequent blanket 10 % was also deemed unlawful. So I think that these proposals are aimed to rebuild the tariff wall, for want of better words, and on a firmer legal footing. So I think the language is quite different. And obviously, the UK has rebutted the premise that it's made with forced labour. But I think it's all about trying to find a legal basis to impose these tariffs. Yeah, the headline on the Telegraph business page is Britain faces US tariffs for being soft on slavery.

8:14As you say, the UK has denied that it's complicit in forced labour and human rights violations. So another reason that Donald Trump is sort of finding to put pressure, Tina, on countries around the world in their trading relationship with the United States, their trading relationship with other countries as well, maybe, on the back of that. What consequence does this, you know, the popping up again of the tariffs issue have? You know, you had a while now the likes of Rico to sort of digest how the global trade flow is being affected by Donald Trump's aims to use tariffs and taxes so often. Yeah, absolutely.

8:57I think we probably hoped that that had quietened down for some time, but probably didn't expect it. I mean, overall, trade is becoming kind of more complex, politicised. And so, you know, navigating these compliance avenues is quite tricky. And certainly, I mean, businesses like mine don't expect politics to be frictionless, but we really would like some predictability. I suppose we could say now that actually this uncertainty and the sort of throwing back in the ring of tariffs probably is becoming predictable, you know, given sort of recent history. And I think the best that we can do so that there are potential impacts.

9:33But to be honest, you know, uncertainty these days, resilience like in your supply chain. So that's sort of like where do you ship goods to and from to, you know, to optimize where you are in any given moment on tariffs. Unfortunately, that's something that we're getting used to both for ourselves because that's part of our reality. But it's also something we kind of help our customers with, too. So, you know, in a way, I'm not I'm not happy about this. It's not it's not a good thing, but it's just another round as I see it, you know, for us all to exercise that kind of agility and resilience and optimize.

10:07And as you say, who knows exactly how these are going to be imposed or not imposed? It is quite a tricky one, and I completely agree that this is just a way to legitimise what was wanted to be done was actually struck down domestically because it's relatively difficult to take too many lessons on employment practices from the US, I must say. Do we need, aside from that, does the UK maybe need to think a bit more about its supply chains? Because there's been a few quotes around this. People sort of feeling they're quite aware that there's this trade war going on. And the reasons some of the tariffs might be put in place are possibly being used, not necessarily just because of concerns about the labour market worldwide.

10:53But then when the conversation is had with human rights groups and there's a China expert quoted in the Telegraph, the point has been made that the UK has extreme, this is a quote from John Hemmings who's from the Henry Jackson Society, the UK has extremely weak legislation in this regard, lacking any enforcement or bans if and when UK companies discover forced labour in their supply chains. Could we actually do quite a bit more to be making sure that the stuff we use every day, the stuff we need to make, the stuff that we manufacture in the UK is actually coming from companies that aren't using forced labour?

11:39I think we could always do more to strengthen that kind of that scrutiny and really looking, you know, looking deep, deep back into supply chains. Now, I think legislation is one thing. And, you know, the Modern Slavery Act is has been here for a while. I think it is something that's going to evolve and I think it should. But I think a lot of businesses, including my own, are already going above and beyond that. And, you know, at RICO, at a Japan level, you know, we have a pledge relating to the UN sustainability goals that talks about, you know, how we how we manage these things. So I think that there is a role for business to go above and beyond the legislation.

12:17But I'm sure the legislation will develop. And to be honest, that is that is a good thing. Chris, Keith has been in touch saying regarding Trump and tariffs, take them with a pinch of salt. Taco will change his muddled mind tomorrow. We've heard that. But people are starting to use the phrase taco now as just a bit of daily conversation. Trump always chickens out is the acronym there. Whether that plays out is another matter for others to decide. Thank you, Tim, for being in touch. She says, what a brilliant interview with Jackie from Hinge, talking to Jackie Jantos, the chief executive of Hinge, a little bit earlier.

12:51How lovely to hear how AI can be used in a positive way to get you off the app rather than trying to get you to stay on an app. Really interested in your thoughts about how the advent of artificial intelligence and how it's used in apps that we've been using for so long now, how that might change things and how we're all viewing those developments. Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first, but didn't live up to the hype? Like those$5 roses at a gas station or a second-hand piece of technology that breaks in the first 10 minutes? Marketers know that feeling. We optimize for the numbers that look great, impressions, reach and reacts.

13:36But when they don't show revenue, well, that's a not-so-great conversation with the CFO. LinkedIn has a word for that. Bull spend. Now you can invest in what looks good to your CFO. LinkedIn Ads generates the highest ROAS of all major ad networks. you'll reach the right buyers because you can target by company, industry, job title, and more. So cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you. Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a 250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com slash broadcast. That's linkedin.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply.

14:21Enjoy the sunshine with sales on grill-ready favorites from Whole Foods Market. Take cookouts to sizzling new heights with their marinated salmon and made-in-house marinated beef and chicken. Entertain with low-priced 365 brand chips and dips like hummus and guacamole. And sweeten every party with brown butter chocolate chip cookies. Remember to pack the cooler with probiotic sodas, sparkling waters, and more. Summer savings await you at Whole Foods Market. Lucy, I wanted to stick a couple of stories together here because I woke up this morning to see that MI5 were warning that Chinese spies are using job websites to target government staff.

15:04So there's been a warning. Five countries, the UK, US, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, have got together to raise a major concern about Chinese espionage. And that is something that sort of has come up every so often. And at the same time, I opened the business pages in the papers today. Chinese cars secure jobs at Sunderland. So Nissan agrees deal to build vehicles for this Chinese electric car company, Cherry, which has JayQ and Emoda as a couple of its brands, really fast-growing brands here in the UK. So how does that tally? The global relationship we're supposed to be having with China and the concerns we might have about China's approach, and yet we're having to embrace having, is that the right word, to embrace some of its companies for manufacturing here?

15:58Well, we are, and I think, I know you've tried to bind the two headlines together, but actually they're almost sort of separate. So the Nissan Chiri is sort of business as usual. That's running along in the background. but obviously the sort of spying issue I think it's probably been ever thus but obviously it's becoming more and more sophisticated so that is a concern but I think looking at the sort of the Nissan story you know we've got a the UK's largest car factory which is only producing half its capacity with a skilled workforce in place. And, you know, Chiri have been shut out of Europe by the tariffs, we're using that word again, on imported vehicles.

16:45So it's looking to manufacture inside Europe. So this is actually a good thing, both for Nissan, which is loss making in the UK. It's a good thing for the employees in Sunderland. And it actually serves the rapid growth that are experiencing. I think it's the Jaycoo is the best-selling car in March 26. So it's a good thing. Because I remember when we spent a bit of time talking about Huawei, you know, manufacturer of smartphones would have been the thing that people were most familiar with, but they were looking to get involved in building infrastructure in the UK, part of the whole 5G network.

17:25And there ended up being some major government decisions, didn't there, made at the start of this decade about Huawei's not being allowed to be involved in that kind of stuff. So there is a line somewhere, isn't there, about where we're okay with Chinese companies having a major role in some of our important infrastructure. And electric cars could well be a big part of that. big communications vehicles, crucial for our roads and safety and lots of information flowing through them? Oh, absolutely. And there is that underlying question mark. But ultimately, I think we have to accept that China is a global manufacturer.

18:14And I'm not qualified to say whether we should really sort of fear or otherwise. I sort of accept the facts that this actually is a good thing for Sunderland and our manufacturing capacity. But equally, there are question marks. Tina, I wanted to ask you about these headlines from the OECD, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, which talks about the AI boom, which we're discussing every day and feel like we will be for quite some time at the moment, but how the oil price shock and the oil price continuing to be so high as it has because of the war in Iran, possibly derailing the global AI boom.

19:00Do you see that, that higher energy costs are going to start to play into companies' abilities to invest in this stuff and take advantage of this stuff? It's a fair question. I've asked myself that as well. But I think I think that the the the impact of the war in Iran and the higher energy prices, et cetera, is going to have a sort of a more sort of generalized effect and generalized, you know, potentially negative effect. I think what it's going to do is I don't think it's the oil price and the energy price itself that's going to stop AI innovation. I think what's going to happen is that with uncertainty and with rising costs, it will delay businesses, investment decisions.

19:42It will delay hiring decisions. You know, business needs confidence. It needs stability. And we don't have a lot of that at the moment. So I think that I think is going to have a broader impact than sort of simply saying that actually we won't have we haven't got enough money to run the data centers because of the energy costs that drive AI. So I think the effect will be more more generalised. And, yeah, I think I think there will be an impact. And speaking to other business leaders who might be listening this morning, the challenge that we've got is balancing the short and the long term. So at Ricoh, we want to invest for long-term growth.

20:19Uncertainty does make that more difficult, but we plough on and I hope that most businesses will do the same. 85058, your thoughts, please. Your thoughts about the summer season of festivals. What tickets have you booked and where? And is your spending habit the same as it has been in previous years? Because the globally renowned WOMAD Music Festival, It was set to make its Scottish debut in Glasgow this July, but organisers have cancelled the weekend entirely, saying ticket sales were too low. We've got Chris Smith with us, who is director of the WOMAD Music Festival. Music, arts, dance, of course, it brings to you most years.

21:00Chris, very good morning to you. Good morning. Just first up, in terms of the array of festivals that you put on, is this the only one that's been affected this summer? it's the only one that's been affected this summer but in recent years because we do festivals all over the world and uh we're finding this to be an international challenge so for example we had a year out in new zealand this year we'll be back next year um i've had a year out in down south in the uk last year coming back this year uh so yeah there are challenges everywhere to be honest and they're all quite similar so just explain us how it comes about you know july you have a festival planned but clearly and as anybody who's you know ever been to a festival keeping an eye on who's playing and when you know it's not all announced on on day one that the tickets might be available necessarily so what has been the process been like the last few months that's got you to here um well it's a complex budget approach and typically we as in glasgow we're supported by public funding um there's that we have to consider the lineup we're not headliner driven so that's another challenge in a competitive world so we're about discovery and discovering new music and again artists from all over the world so our lineup takes longer to put together but equally we're not announcing headliners to bring huge surges we're of ticket sales we're hoping that people will buy into the what womad represents and what womad stands for in a complicated world so yeah it was the same in glasgow but glasgow is a different city different location there's an awful lot going on there which is great for the city and i think people you know just uh are challenged financially committed to other things costs generally had gone up hotels etc etc so yeah we were just a piece in the glasgow jigsaw that didn't quite fit this year what um what do you think was the the final straw a lot a lot's going on but you know we've been in this cost of living crunch for some time now at what point did did something happen that make you think okay this we didn't really envisage that and this is going to be a struggle it what the ticket sellers were doing though and again this is the pattern uh people were buying late this is a situation when you have particularly public support public money invested there's a tipping point in terms of the spend when suddenly you've got to pay the put to pay the deposits pay for the infrastructure commit to traders commit to bars and at that point there's no turning back So your commitment then is huge.

23:31And we reached a point where looking at the sales, looking at the trajectory, we just felt that there was such risk involved in pressing on that the decision was taken to step backwards rather than forwards. Accommodation-wise, for people wanting to come for a weekend in Glasgow, obviously having to stay in hotels or B &Bs, whatever that might be, has that been a particular difference compared to other sites that you might have? Yeah, it has this year. I think Glasgow is very busy. Commonwealth Games, I think on the same weekend as us, there were two or three big arena events in the city. And again, the hotel prices had doubled.

24:10If you could get a hotel room, they were twice the cost. So I think people making a late decision would find they either couldn't get a hotel room or, again, the cost was far greater than a night, a couple of days at a festival. And were you aware of those things, you know, when you first start thinking, OK, we're going to go for Glasgow in 2026? Well, you know it can happen. I think in terms of hotel prices, you can't predict what's going to happen. But again, I think we believe what we do is different. So we knew we were looking for a different audience. And we know that audience is there because they have a brilliant event in the winter called Celtic Connections.

24:46So we knew that audience is there. But I guess it just didn't connect as early as we would like it to. And I think another factor, a lot of festivals now are slashing prices to try and survive. And there's a big festival in Glasgow that's just done that. And so people have also started to wait for the discount, the last minute discount, which we never do. but again that that delays sales and and this is what can happen is that a wise thing for the industry to be doing i think it's incredibly short term i think it's about survival um in the year you're doing it unless you're part of a huge corporation which of course many festivals are i think because in subsequent year what happens is nobody buys a ticket until the last 10 minutes because they're convinced you're going to halve the price at some point and you've got just finally you've got your WOMAD festival in Wiltshire still going ahead this year.

25:38Do you think that played into it at all, where people were already thinking, well, I'm going to a WOMAD festival already, or there's one a bit later in July that'll work better for me? I don't know. I don't think it was a fact in the numbers. Interestingly, since the announcement, we've had people come back to us saying, well, I've already got tickets for WOMAD down south, So the discount you're offering, can I have it belatedly? But it's not a significant number. And they're quite different events. So one's a city centre event, one's a nice rural camping event. So no, I don't think it was competition, but we'll do some research.

26:14We'll ask a lot of people and try and find out. Well, Chris, sorry, your Glasgow team had to go through all of that. But good luck for the Wiltshire side of things. Chris Smith, their director of WOMAD. Thank you to Tina and Lucy. That's it from Wake Up To Money. Wake Up To Money from BBC 5 Live That's it from Wake Up To Money you can download the podcast every Monday to Friday so please make sure you subscribe we'd also love it if you left us a review when you do get in touch keep the conversation going any time as well on social media use the hashtag Wake Up To Money So much sport today and all the goals as they go in up and down the league This is 5 Live Sports.

26:58It's all eyes to the lights and foot to the floor. To bowl him. It's not to stop out. Everyone standing around the 18th green. Overhead kick. That is sensational. He's down to the centre. And there we do it. Oh, the right hand and the former champion is down. It's an extraordinary start. They've got on a show for us tonight. He gets on his knees and kisses the turf. 5 Live Sports. The home of the world's greatest sporting events. The full time whistle. Listen on BBC Sounds.

27:56Well, that's a not-so-great conversation with the CFO. LinkedIn has a word for that. Bull spend. Now you can invest in what looks good to your CFO. LinkedIn ads generates the highest ROAS of all major ad networks. You'll reach the right buyers because you can target by company, industry, job title, and more. So cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn. The network that works for you. Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a 250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com slash broadcast. That's linkedin.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. Shop the Sherwin-Williams Memorial Day sale and get 30 % off paints and stains May 15th through the 28th.

28:47Whether you're refreshing your interior or exterior, we've got the colors to bring your vision to life. And with delivery, getting everything to your door is easier than ever. Shop online to have it delivered or visit your neighborhood Sherwin-Williams store. Click the banner to learn more. Retail sales only. Some exclusions apply. See store for details. Delivery available on qualifying orders.