In short
This episode of Wanging On with Graham and Maria mixes celebrity/surveillance banter with two listener dilemmas. Topic 1: etiquette about a niece changing a baby’s diaper on the living room floor using a blanket, then insisting the hosts keep the dirty diaper bag rather than disposing of it. Hosts argue the floor change is acceptable if contained, but handing over a “shit-filled” diaper bag is the bigger issue; they debate whether new parents should be forgiven. Notable examples from listeners include diaper changes in cafes and on trains when facilities are out of order. Topic 2: a 47-year-old woman (Emma) sleeping with a 21-year-old neighbor “toy boy” she says is just fun. Hosts discuss gendered double standards, power dynamics, and the risk of emotional attachment despite “no strings.”
Guests
Graham and Maria (hosts). No external guests; “wangers” are audience commenters (e.g., Karen, Anne, Lauren, Gabby, Dom, George, Stacey, Lisa, Pete, Samantha).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOPaparazzi and Privacy
2:06 to 3:23
Discussion on the strange nature of paparazzi photographs and experiences.
“I really would like you to do it as a musical, though, now.”
Reflection on Past Photos
3:23 to 6:11
Graham and Maria share memories about past photos and their views on body image.
“And he's got his tail very much tucked between his legs.”
Celebrity Surveillance Culture
6:11 to 8:16
Explore the impact of surveillance and paparazzi on celebrity lives.
“But, you know, when we do look back, we think, why did I think I was fat then?”
Dilemma of the Day
8:16 to 12:28
A listener's dilemma about etiquette with a guest's baby brings humor and insights.
“You know that thing, like people kind of thought, oh, if you got the COVID, it was going to track you or something, you know, all that 5G.”
Changing Babies and Social Etiquette
14:01 to 17:44
Exploration of the social norms surrounding changing babies in public spaces.
“and you don't see anything wrong in doing something that you have to do 19 times a day to change a baby's nappy.”
Listener Reactions to Parenting Dilemmas
17:45 to 22:57
Discussion of listener opinions on changing babies in public and the responsibilities of parents.
“The wangers say, Karen says, No, you are not wrong.”
The Dilemma of Age Gap Relationships
22:58 to 27:36
A letter from a woman questioning the appropriateness of dating a younger man.
“Get over the chaos and embrace this new part of your life.”
Navigating Age Gap Relationships and Social Judgments
27:37 to 28:01
Discussion on societal perceptions of older women dating younger men and the double standards involved.
“and makes it kind of more socially acceptable than, you know, I'm going out with someone who was a teenager a second ago.”
Navigating Age Gaps in Relationships
28:01 to 31:52
The hosts discuss the societal judgments surrounding age gaps in relationships, specifically focusing on a 47-year-old woman dating a 21-year-old man.
“You know, if Emma was a man, 47, going out with a 21-year-old girl, I think we'd be going, ugh.”
Emotional Risks in Casual Relationships
31:53 to 37:19
The hosts caution about the emotional consequences that can arise in seemingly casual relationships, emphasizing the complexities of attachment.
“It just, it won't end, you know, that kind of no strings attached fun, there's always some fucking strings attached.”
Show all 14 chapters
Listener Opinions on Age Gap Relationships
37:20 to 39:15
The hosts read listener comments regarding the acceptability of age-gap relationships and the differing perceptions based on gender.
“Pete on the Isle of Wight says, I think the only thing you need to do is confirm from him that it's just a bit of fun.”
Am I Weird? The Posh Pia's Toilet Preference
39:16 to 42:00
A listener shares their habit of using nice hotel restrooms, prompting a discussion about the unusual yet practical nature of the habit.
“And then Emma can take that experience and go back to her own age.”
Reflecting on Hotel Experiences
42:00 to 42:45
Explore anecdotes about hotel amenities and personal experiences.
“you will then go to the bar and pay£20 for a glass of wine or£8 for a cup of tea.”
Reflecting on Hotel Experiences
43:51 to 44:18
Explore anecdotes about hotel amenities and personal experiences.
“Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today.”
Transcript
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1:22savings, your next girls' night is basically free. Find your perfect match at Walmart.com or at a store near you. Paparazzi pictures are weird because normally you know they're being taken, but sometimes you really don't. And then a picture will show up at the paper, you're like, where the hell were they hiding?
1:39Maria McErlane:I don't think we are judging enough of men, but we are very, ask Joan Collins, we are very quick to judge women with younger partners. Producer David tells me The response to this dilemma is the biggest response we've ever had. Wow. And it's totally split. People on either side.
2:00Stop. Look. Listen. It's a brand new episode of Wanging On with Graham and Maria. It's our safe space for so-so advice. How are you today?
2:07Maria McErlane:I thought that intro was quite camp. Did you like it? Well, I don't know if you liked it. I really would like you to do it as a musical, though, now. Well, we are, you know, post-Post-Edinburgh. we're working it up into a musical show I think so yeah we're recasting obviously but what about my contemporary dance everyone loves that come on do that in act two yeah with a bag over my head real Maria can do the contemporary dance I can't do the singing hey hey you should because you are now an online celebrity yes I am how did you find this out anyway tell people what's happened yes a friend of mine And Jeremy, our mutual friend, was kind of, you know, property-pawning one evening, looking around, and looking in Hastings.
2:54Maria McErlane:And then he spotted me on Google Earth. So you're one of the blurry people. I'm a blurry people. I've made it into blurry people land. Hooray! Did they just blur your face? Yeah. Okay. They really should have blurred everything, because I was wearing leg warmers. I was wearing leg warmers. For your contemporary dance. I think I'd just been to a contemporary dance class. And also, it must have been a long time ago because Rafi was very small and not used to walking on a lead. So he's kind of very hunched like that. I think I was dragging him. And he's got his tail very much tucked between his legs.
3:31Maria McErlane:But sort of got me to thinking, wow, you know, you just don't know. I was not aware of a Google van going past. Oh, that was Street View. That was on the Street View, yeah. Because on the satellite aerial view, another friend, Klim. Oh, yes, Klim. He sent me an aerial view of our old house. And you can see our dogs, Bailey and Madge, are sunbathing. And you can zoom in and Bailey's like a big rug. And then Madge is curled up by the front doorstep. Is that how they died, Graham? Yes, a satellite crashed into them. So, no, I'm not on Google Earth. I am on Street View. So they can't see you from space yet.
4:13Maria McErlane:They can't. It's annoying, isn't it? So I'm just kind of like there. It's kind of, it makes you think, oh, they've stolen my soul. Because people didn't want photographs taken in the olden days because they felt it was stealing their soul. I felt like that. Without my permission. I mean, and I'm used to kind of people taking photographs. Of course. Paparazzi, never far away. Not that much. Not that much. But I do remember us going, I think we talked about this, haven't we, when we went to Dirty Dancing. Oh. I don't think we've talked about it on this podcast, weirdly. Have we? No. We've talked about it on the radio, and I don't think we've ever discussed it here.
4:46Maria McErlane:It was quite a good after party, shall we just say that? We had a good time. We had a good time, and then when we came out, there were the paparazzi there, for Graham, obviously, with some bird that it had taken, and I stupidly, because I can, did quite a high kick. But it was so fast, and I had no idea how fast shutter speeds work, and so therefore there was a massive photograph of my undercarriage. But, you know, it was panted. Yes, but just so people know how high your leg went up, the bit where the denier of the tights changes. Denier of the pants. I don't think I was wearing tights. I thought you were wearing tights.
5:29Maria McErlane:No, no, no. It was summertime, so it was literally just leg and pant. Oh, wow. But it was very high. Yeah. And they really got in there. They did. And then it was in Heat magazine and something else. I think I've got it somewhere at home. I may even have laminated it. So I can look back in the future and go, oh, look, once upon a time, everything was where it should be. Oh, isn't that lovely? Oh, look. And isn't it funny, that thing where you're appalled by pictures at the time, and then when you look back at them, you're like, actually, I looked good then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I looked fabulous.
6:09I should have loved that picture.
6:11Maria McErlane:But, you know, when we do look back, we think, why did I think I was fat then? Because I wasn't. Yeah, exactly. Although I was. But do you, have you been spotted anywhere? I mean, you know, again, photographs are everywhere now. Everyone has a camera. It's like nothing can be. Yeah, the paparazzi pictures are weird because normally you know they're being taken. But sometimes you really don't. And then a picture will show up in the paper. You're like, where the hell were they hiding? Yeah. And also, in paparazzi pictures, I always look really kind of glum and, you know, angry. Is that your general kind of resting face?
6:45Well, it's one of my resting face, but also I'm annoyed that a paparazzi is taking my picture. So I'm not going to smile and da-da-da. Like I remember I used to take my dogs to Hyde Park. And for some reason, there's a paparazzi who just lives in Hyde Park. In a tent? Yeah, it must be. He's always there.
7:02Maria McErlane:It's full of celebs, Hyde Park. It used to be my stomping ground. And he follows you around. And of course, you can't avoid... I mean, it's a clever place for a paparazzi to go because you can't get away from them because it's just wide open. And you're just, you know, you're not going to lose them behind a tree. I mean, they're thick, but not that thick. But what a weird way to make a living. It's horrible, really. And it's kind of getting worse, isn't it? For celebrities to do anything privately. Like I remember our friend David Collins when we went to his funeral. Yeah. And Madonna was a friend of his, so she was there.
7:36And when we came out of the chapel, there were paparazzi taking pictures of people at a funeral. And it was like, how are you going home and saying to your kids what you did that day? You know, what did you do today, Dad? Well, I took pictures of people crying outside of church.
7:52Maria McErlane:The problem is everything is fair game now. And also the whole thing about, you know, surveillance, seeing myself, which is bizarre, but it did make me feel a bit bizarre, but is that you can't hide from anything anymore. using your credit card. It's all monitored. Your phone knows where you are at every opportunity. There are street cameras everywhere. Yeah, but no one actually cares. I know, I don't care. You know that thing, like people kind of thought, oh, if you got the COVID, it was going to track you or something, you know, all that 5G. It's like, who wants to track you? Who cares where you are?
8:26Maria McErlane:Because we all have an inflated view of our own importance now. Yeah. For some reason, I don't know why. I'm the only person who should have an inflated. No, but also, here's that thing. You recognized yourself with a blurry face. CCTV, you know, you kind of think, oh, it's making it safer. It isn't because you can't, it's inadmissible in court. It is actually, you're right. You know, and they always have a hood up, whatever. So you can never really tell who it is. So all you get is a kind of a blurry outline of the person who broke into your house. Whoop-de-doo, there you go. Spotted in the vicinity.
9:00Maria McErlane:When I'm trying to plan a murder, you see, that's where I have to do a lot of research about not using my credit card for some days before and having a burner phone. So I leave my phone at home so they can't track where I was. What is that stat about the number of murders that go unsolved? It's huge. It's massive. I'm not surprised I'm not killing you right now because I'll get away with it. Even though it's recorded and filmed. Yeah, I'll just go, it's AI. she was never there she died in Hastings the last picture is street view we'll put that on the cover of your memorial just a blurry out face with Raffi hunched into a ball I would love that well and then you can say moments later this dog that she was dragging around leapt from the pavement and got her by the throat Maria soon it'll be time for our dilemma of the day grey roots entering the chat uninvited Garnier's got you Garnier colour sensation root retouch covers up to 100 % of greys in just 10 minutes no ammonia no mess and the colour lasts up to 4 weeks it's as easy to apply as shampoo plus it's vegan and cruelty free 10 minutes sensational colour sensational price with those savings your next girls night is basically free.
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11:09The time is nigh. Okay. Envelope ahoy. Here we go. Not too long for you, is it?
11:20Just about. Okay.
11:21Maria McErlane:Dear Graham and Maria, as a gay couple of over 30 years with mostly childless friends, we were a little perplexed by a situation involving my husband's niece and her baby. Great. The baby, who is still in diapers, was not our typical house guest. Our home is newly remodelled and maybe we're being a little precious about this, but the idea of mummy changing baby's diaper on our living room floor had us a bit stunned. Granted, she laid down a blanket, but we did have adequate bathroom space for her to do this. But the weirdest part was when she was leaving, she handed me the dirty diaper bag and said something like, here, you can take this.
12:02Maria McErlane:I told her she should take it with her. She could have disposed of it in any waste bin on the way home. I don't really have a disposal bin for dirty nappies, but she insisted we keep it and figure it out, which is what we did as she sped off. Maybe this belongs under the am I weird column because I honestly don't know the proper etiquette on either side. Was she out of line or was I just being a little bit priggish? We are simply unprepared for this kind of thing. Please set me straight, as it were. If you tell me I'm in the wrong, I'll accept it and know the score next time a guest comes with a baby in tow.
12:39Maria McErlane:And that is from Lee in Connecticut. This is such an interesting question because what I would like to say to you, Lee, in Connecticut is when somebody has a baby, no, it's a bit like when you have a dog, you think, I can't get a dog because I can't pick up that poo, and I have to. But then you have a dog, and it's your dog, and you pick up the poo because you have to, and you don't want to pick up anybody else, anyone else's dog. No, isn't it funny? Like, that would be just, I would wretch if I had to pick up a strange dog's poo. It's like... My own dog. Oh, yeah, thanks. It's because it's, you know, we're sort of programmed to not notice these things anymore if those little creatures, like a little baby, So there's something about her that is immune, I think, to anything bad about the baby.
13:25Maria McErlane:So the baby, babies just poo a lot. This baby is obviously young and it poos a lot. She put a blanket down, Lee, which is kind of good. She could have used the bathroom, but then you could have said, oh, would you mind doing that in the bathroom? But, you know, then that would have been tricky. I think leaving you with the poo bag, with a diaper bag, is a bit much. Especially as you said, can you take it with you? And she said, no, you have it. That's taking it a bit far, I think. You know, the baby's being changed. Nothing got on your lovely furniture. But I do feel that a new mum is slightly kind of fraught anyway with no sleep.
14:07Maria McErlane:and you don't see anything wrong in doing something that you have to do 19 times a day to change a baby's nappy. I mean, I think it's, for me, this is a game of two halves. I think changing the baby on a blanket in the living room, no problem with that. I don't have a problem with that. You're just getting on with your life and you should put down the blanket. It's a bit smelly though. I know, but it's, I've seen a lot of people change. But you know, if it's a new baby, you just get on with it. You don't pretend that it's a, you know, oh, I've got to go. No, just do it here. Like you say, you're doing it so often.
14:42And if you're good at it, it's quick. You know, undo it, bit of a wipe, new nappy on, off we go. I do think it's odd that she insisted they keep a bag of dirty diapers. You know, a bottle of wine would be nice as a thank you. But no, a bag of dirty diapers. But maybe, as you say, it's because in her head, it's not, you know, it's not a bag of toxic waste, which is what it is. In her head, it's just a thing.
15:09Maria McErlane:But also maybe by then she'd realized that you were quite prissy about this. And she was sort of making a point is I've got this baby. This baby does this a million times a day. Can you just put it in a bag? Because I've got a lot to deal with here. Put it in your rubbish or something. So, yeah, that is the worst crime, actually, rather than changing the baby on the floor. I think what you could do, I mean, I get it. You don't want to get in your car with a bag of dirty diapers, you know, because it will stink out the car or whatever. But I think what you do is you ask, oh, what bin should I use for this before I get in the car?
15:46Maria McErlane:I do think you have to kind of be a little bit forgiving of her. No, except here's the thing. I would never, if my dog, I mean, actually, it has happened. No, it has happened, but only by accident. But like you would never kind of hand a, you know, a poo bag to someone you've been visiting. Kind of go, oh, could you? You know, you manage it yourself because your dog did it. You picked it up. You did the good thing. But and now you find a bin. And I would ask, oh, should I just pop that in the thing? Or do you have a special dog poo one? Yeah, should I leave it in an outside bin? But babies and dogs are very different.
16:25Maria McErlane:You know, human baby. Are they? A human baby. You know, it's lovely. It's a gorgeous thing, part of that. Can't sit up for treats. No, can't sit up for treats, but can roll over. Oh, yes. Over the age of about five months, I believe. I don't know. I do feel, Lee, that this has been a bit of a wake-up call for you about the fact that people who breed will have these needs in their lives, like babies need to be changed. and when they're toddlers and they're able to kind of walk around your newly remodeled house, it's even worse. Oh, no, that'll be much, much worse. I think that this is probably going to cause some outrage amongst the wangers.
17:07I think they're going to be like us, though. I think they're going to see it as two different things.
17:11Maria McErlane:See, maybe we're a bit more liberal. No, but I think Lee is putting it all together and I think the changing is totally acceptable. I do too. Whereas I don't understand what... I think his reaction to the changing is what caused the second bit. Exactly right. Okay. She was making a very, very obvious point. Yeah, she's a bit of a hard-ass bitch. Let's not go too mad. She's got a new baby. Cut her some slack. Well, I don't know. She's handing people shit-filled nappies. What do the wangers think? Come on, let's find out. The wangers say, Karen says, No, you are not wrong. It's just disgusting and typical behavior of entitled parents.
17:52Maria McErlane:There's a lot of them around. I do understand that we all have relaxed in terms of behavior and what's acceptable, but I don't want to see this. Use the bathroom. I've had two kids, and I'm not a snob. Some things just don't need to be witnessed. Oh, so she's kicking off about the towel in the living room. Yeah, yeah. And she's had two kids. Yeah. I would have thought a mother would be like, whatever. Anne says, what is wrong with people? A blanket won't protect your carpet or flooring. if there is a large number one or two, go to the bathroom for God's sake. As a mother of two, I wouldn't dream of exposing everyone to that.
18:31Maria McErlane:As for the dirty nappy, she should take it with her. Solution, don't invite her again or put dirty offerings in her bag or car as she leaves. P.S. I was in a cafe once and a family changed a shitty nappy inside the cafe in the pram. I must admit I was too stunned to say anything. I mean, shit in a cafe seems quite bad. But like, what's Anne suggesting? You tie the dirty nappy to the back of the car, like a just married sign. Yeah, shit in a... Just shat myself.
19:07Maria McErlane:Just married. I've been on a train and somebody has changed a baby on a train. And I mean... On the table in front of you? No, no, I was on a train and they were there. Oh, that's allowed, isn't it? No, but there are other people around. Oh, because they have the baby changing thing in the loo, don't they? You know, this was on the table, so it was in the carriage. And I was thinking, oh, you know, the wife looked really harassed and the dad looked embarrassed. And I thought, oh, you know, they're at the end of their tether with this baby. Yeah, I'm kind of with you. But then somebody did, another person did say to them, can you not do that?
19:41Maria McErlane:And they kind of looked like, where do you want us to do it? I think the loo was out of order, if I remember. But so, you know, you've got to change the baby's nappy. this has got to be done. Yeah. I mean, it's horrible, but there you go. Lauren says, babies poop and we're a lot. I've had three of them. They are shitting machines. Lauren's been through it. Yeah. The amount of times you change a nappy in 24 hours eventually makes you immune to it all and to general social etiquette. We all begin with homes like yours, which are then slowly invaded with gaudy plastic toys and yogurt smeared soft furnishings.
20:17Maria McErlane:I've changed my sons on floors, tables, chairs, the bonnet of my car, planes on my lap on disgusting restaurant bathroom floors. The fact that your niece had a blanket makes her better than most. The poop is contained in a diaper and further contained in a plastic diaper bag. Put it in your designer bin and get over yourselves. I'm kind of with Lauren on this. You ask. You don't just hand it to someone who you take this. Well, I think that's the only bit of this problem that I have an issue with is that she was very adamant about not taking it because I think she felt the reprobation. Is that the right word?
20:55I don't know.
20:58Maria McErlane:About changing it. Anyway, Gabby from Australia says, I feel for this couple. They're definitely not weird. People who choose not to have children really don't like the idea of having a nappy full of shit in their bin. It's a one-off. I like an Australian speaking straight from the hip. Yeah, yeah. Fair call, I say. When my child was in nappies, never did I leave a dirty nappy in a house without a baby present. I could have knocked next door. If you've got a baby, do you mind having this? As this couple wanted, I would carry my nappies away and dispose of them myself. Because really, having chosen to have a child, I accept the responsibility for dealing with the shit.
Read the full transcript
21:43Maria McErlane:Literally. However, in terms of changing the baby on the floor, Sorry, guys, but you need to suck that one up. It's a hassle having to call all the required things off to another room. And honestly, what? You expected her to lay the baby on the floor of the bathroom. So Gabby is a bit with us on that one. Yeah, it is a game of two halves, this, I think. I mean, we don't have children, and I wouldn't mind, really, if somebody changed their baby on the floor. No, I get it. You've got a baby and you've got to deal with it. Or actually leave me their poop bag. Because I have a dog, so I've got poop bags.
22:16Oh, I thought the dog was going to sponsor the poop. I mean, I've got a dog, so it's the circle of life.
22:27Maria McErlane:Dom in Diss says, As a fellow gay couple of over 30 plus years, they're all piling in now, aren't they? We both understand that babies cause total chaos. We too have great nephews and a great niece. And while they bring total disorder to our perhaps over-organized lives, they are a huge joy. Your niece's life is now totally dedicated to her baby. And as her uncles, you need to be supportive, loving, and above all, grateful that she clearly wants you in her life and that of your great nephew or niece. Next time, you'll be prepared. Get over the chaos and embrace this new part of your life. I mean, that's from a gay couple.
23:10And that's very sweet of Dom. I genuinely don't think this niece is ever darkening their door again.
23:16Maria McErlane:No, I don't. I mean, you know, just hang out with other people with babies because they're covered in shit already.
23:25Maria McErlane:That's what I mean. You know, you can't be precious about a baby. You can't stand on ceremony because they're going to shit and piss where they want and how they want. Yeah. Producer David tells me the response to this dilemma is the biggest response we've ever had. And it's totally split. People on either side. People think it's acceptable. People think it's unacceptable. So keep the discussion going. In the comments section below, what do you think? Is it okay to change your baby on the floor? Is it okay to hand over a bag of dirty diapers? That's the thing, isn't it? It really is. So let the debate rage on.
24:02We will be delving into another dilemma shortly. This episode is brought to you by ADT. One second, you're enjoying your day off. The next, your phone buzzes. A window's been broken at home. You're miles away. In one second, everything can change. That's why ADT security systems can monitor your home 24-7. They're backed by the most company-operated monitoring centers in the industry, so you're always supported during an emergency. When every second counts, count on ADT. Visit ADT.com to learn more.
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25:06Maria, I hear wanging on as quite the social media presence.
25:10Maria McErlane:That we do, Graham. On our Instagram page, at wanging on, we post all manner of clips and dilemmas. But what about Facebook? We're there too, Graham. Give us a follow. But, Maria, if I'm down with a youth and I'm on TikTok... We are there too, Graham. Again, it's wanging on, and we're on TikTok, Facebook and Instagram. whatever your social media platform of choice. There really is no escaping us. Have you a second letter at all? I have, and I'm hoping we can get away from poo. Well, let's see. Letter number two. It's in the envelope. Oh, yes, it is.
25:54Maria McErlane:Dear Graham and Maria, I'll cut straight to the point. I'm a 47-year-old single childless woman living in London. And for the last month, I've been hooking up with a 21-year-old toy boy who lives on my street. I know, in capital letters. He is also single, has a full-time job, and he comes across as quite mature, I think. We haven't discussed this properly, but I get the impression he doesn't see this as a serious thing at all, which is great, because I really don't. We just have a lot of fun. Is that gross? I can't shake the feeling that I'm doing something wrong. But what? Everything is perfectly legal and grown up.
26:35Maria McErlane:I've never fantasized about having a toy boy. In fact, I've always slept with people my own age. This just sort of happened. Be honest. What do you think? Should I carry on or pull myself together and put a stop to it? And that is from Emma. First off, Emma, I want to say you don't need to call him a toy boy. We don't say when men of 50 go out with women of 21, this is my toy girl. It's just, you know, it's acceptable and it's commonplace and nobody says this is a toy girl. So it's a kind of pejorative term which really is not good for either him or you because you're clearly feeling that everyone's going to disapprove of your toy boy.
27:17Maria McErlane:Just call him a man. He's a man of 21. I think, you know, having said that, we can go from there because it's not good. it makes one side of the argument far worse. Yes, I'm having sex with somebody who's 20 years younger than me. See, I think Toy Boy makes it seem kind of flirty and fun and makes it kind of more socially acceptable than, you know, I'm going out with someone who was a teenager a second ago. He's legal. No, no. Here's the thing I would say is, you know, not doing anything wrong and yet there's something a bit queasy about it. I don't think you're swanning around on the moral high ground by doing this.
28:01You know, if Emma was a man, 47, going out with a 21-year-old girl, I think we'd be going, ugh.
28:08Maria McErlane:No, because that happens all the time. But we'd still be going, ugh. It's so much more accepted for men to do this. Men have trophy wives. They kind of get rid of the first wife when she loses her hair or whatever. No, I think we're very judgy of men now. I don't think... They still do it and it's, you know, But I think we are more judgy of men. I don't think we are judgy enough of men. But we are very quick. Ask Joan Collins. We are very quick to judge women with younger partners. Well, I think what's interesting is, I think in lots of ways, you see what the young women are getting out of their old bloke.
28:45What is it, money? Well, often it's power or it's status or it's money. It's all of those things. You know, yes, I'm your trophy girlfriend or whatever, and now I get to go to Italy. On a private plane. I get to go on a private plane in a fancy sports car. What's good about this is this guy fancies Emma. You know, he wants to have sex with Emma.
29:08Maria McErlane:So what you're saying is it's okay if it's transactional. Well, no, I'm not even saying that. I'm just pointing, I think this is different. You know, this isn't transactional in that way. You can't give him anything. Well, also, he's 21 years old. You know, he probably has 93 erections a day. And he's got a full-time job. And he's got a full-time job. When he's not working, he can pop round for Emma. Is it Emma? Yeah, it's Emma. So I don't think you need to worry about this. He has said, and you have accepted, Emma, that this is just a bit of fun. It's not going to go anywhere. We don't need to worry.
29:44Maria McErlane:No one's going to meet the parents. Parents aren't going to go, but you're the same age as me. you whore. Well, she'd be older than them. You're assuming, you're making assumptions, Norton. Emma, I would just caution you, do be careful. As Sylvia Plath said, sleep with a log often enough and you'll fall in love with it. And it's true. You know, if you are continually intimate with somebody, you will form an attachment. You might tell yourself, oh, this is just fun. We're having a lot of fun. It's great. It's not serious. When you look out your window and he's snogging a 21-year-old at the bus stop, your little heart is going to break.
30:23Maria McErlane:Why are you assuming that she's going to be the one that falls in love with him? He might fall in love with her. Yeah. Sleep with a log often enough. Yeah. You know? But hearts will be broken here. That's all I'm saying. Well, possibly. But they both seem to be, it has been discussed, and they both seem to be on the same page, where this is just a bit of fun. I mean, hats off to you, is what I say, Emma. You know, it's great. You're perhaps teaching him lovely things and he's learning from you or vice versa. Yeah, I mean, as I say, there's nothing wrong with it, but it's a bit, yes. I mean, Emma would not enjoy meeting this man's mother.
31:00Maria McErlane:No, but that's not going to happen. It's a bit of fun. They live on the same street. It's convenient. It's like... Mother could pop around. He's only 21. Probably still doing his laundry. It's friends with benefits, but he just happens to be younger than you. I'm kind of quite vehemently on the what's good for the goose is good for the gander viewpoint, which is nobody would blink if a man was 47 having sex with a 21-year-old. I think they will blink. I think when a 47-year-old is going out with a 21-year-old, they will blink. They're not going out. They're having sex. They're having sex. She's kind of said it's a bit of fun.
31:34Maria McErlane:I don't see them going to fancy restaurants or, you know, his graduation ceremony. I just, I just, I, well, Emma, I just be careful. I just be careful because I think someone's going to get hurt here and it'll either be you or him or possibly both of you. Because it, I think it's dangerous going into an intimate relationship where you're saying, we know this is no future. We know it's not serious. It just, it won't end, you know, that kind of no strings attached fun, there's always some fucking strings attached. There's always strings hanging out of everything. And, well, probably not Emma anymore.
32:24Maria McErlane:You're a little more disapproving than I am, even though you say it's not disapproving. I just, I am, weirdly, I am, I wouldn't have thought I would be, because, you know, as you say, they're just having fun, da-da-da, he's 21 he can do what he likes but for emma i just yeah i worry for her she keeps herself nice shall we see what the wangers have to say and also i do feel like there's a big bit of this letter missing which bit well the bit where she goes this just sort of happened there's a lot i mean those are five words that are carrying a lot of weight this just sort of happened yeah how emma How did this just sort of happen?
33:06You know, was he...
33:07Maria McErlane:How does it happen? You have a drink. How? How was she having a drink with a 21-year-old who lives on the same street? Because he lives on the same street and they met in the pub and they chatted and then they kind of went, do you want to come and have a night cup? Yes, I do. One thing leads to another. You know how that works. I don't know. There's a lot happening in that sentence. I'll be interested to see... You are behaving in a much more kind of, you know, sort of like Victorian gentleman way. No, it's not that. It's just I feel like if you're just having fun. They are just having fun. But if you're just having some fun with someone where you understand what they're going through emotionally, you want to da-da-da-da.
33:50But these people, they're physically connecting, and that's amazing, and it's fizzy, and da-da-da-da. But emotionally and mentally, they are worlds apart. And I just hope that they are both in the same game and they're both doing the same thing. I worry for them. That's all.
34:09Maria McErlane:You and I have both had hookups where we know that it's not going to go any further. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I think Emma is in that same position. Oh, no. I'm not saying Emma should behave like me. God forbid. No, no, no. I'll do what I like. Thank you very much, Emma. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Back off. I didn't ask for your opinion, Emma. Yeah, you asked for mine. And now you have it. Okay, George in Salford says, You saucy minks, have fun, enjoy it while it lasts. Sounds like no emotions are involved. He's old enough to know what he's doing and you're both having fun. So buck away until your heart's content.
34:47Maria McErlane:At that age, he's probably grateful for the attention and experience. Just be prepared that you'll be a story in one of his drinking games at some point. You sound like a nice man, George, in some words. Well, George is right. Stacey in the Netherlands says, when will people stop calling them, oh, thank you, Stacey, when will people stop calling them toy boys? All it does is keep the stereotype alive. When older women do it, there's something nasty, even ludicrous about it. When older men do it, well, let's just say I've never heard anyone refer to a toy girl. Don't give it another thought, simply enjoy it.
35:23Maria McErlane:Stacey, I am with you all the way. But they do refer to them as totty and things. There are other, you know, pejorative terms. Trophy wife and things like that. Yeah, all that. There are words. But there's still an element of good on you for managing to get yourself a hot bird. There's still a sort of back-slapping element, which there isn't for a woman with a younger man. It's a bit, ooh. Oh, see, I don't think, I think there's all that cougarville, all that stuff. No. I think, I thought our, and so far they are, I thought our mangos would be very much on Emma's side and thinking, good on you.
36:00Maria McErlane:Yeah, cougar is another pejorative term, you know, an older woman. You don't need to say that we don't need these terms, we don't need these labels. Toy boy, cougar. Lisa, in Shropshire, I'm sounding like a proper feminist. Yay me. Listen to some more back episodes. No. Delve into the archive. No. Lisa in Chopra says, if you feel it might be wrong, go with that and put an end to it. You've both had some fun and you've got a shocking tale to tell your friends. I think studies show men reach full mental maturity in the early 40s, really. So I'd be concerned I was taking advantage of this young man.
36:44Maria McErlane:Power dynamics are off with such a gap and I know I'd be grossed out if the genders were reversed. Okay. There you go. See? Okay, Lisa is not... I mean, isn't there something, there is something weird, isn't there, that men are at their kind of sexual peak at 17 or something. Yeah, yeah. And women are at their sexual peak in their late 30s or something. Yeah, so it doesn't coincide. So she's basically just doing good. Yeah, she's doing beautiful things. I mean, you know, men have got... It's really lovely what she's doing. Men have got... Men get erections very easily. She may be on the birthday honors list.
37:20Services to 21-year-olds.
37:21Maria McErlane:CBE or MBE at the very least. BJ. Anyway. Pete on the Isle of Wight says, I think the only thing you need to do is confirm from him that it's just a bit of fun. If he's fine with that, then make hay well the sun shines. As you say, it's all above board and no one's going to get hurt if you're all on the same page. You already understand that it will probably fizzle out at some point, but life is too short to have regrets about things you should have done. Teach him well, and I'm sure his next partner will appreciate it. And if that last sentence doesn't make Maria go yuck, I will eat my hat. Get munching, baby.
38:06Maria McErlane:Samantha says, if this was a man, I think we'd probably give him a hard time for the age gap. So I think you need to give him up, hon. Sorry, but it's an ick. Another thing, and I hate to say this, but if you did have kids, I don't think you would have touched him with a barge pole. Also, if you were okay with it, you wouldn't be writing in. I mean, it is interesting that Emma feels the dilemma in herself. You know, she wasn't writing in kind of going, isn't this interesting? She's going, what should I do? You know, is this okay? So she's either seeking permission, but I think, you know, from the letter, it sounds like she's having slight qualms about what's going on.
38:47Maria McErlane:But it sounds like it's a thing that only happens indoors with one of their houses, perhaps, and isn't kind of out there in the public. It is now. So, you know, keep it that way then. Then you don't have to deal with any people's comments about you're too old to be shagging him. I'm just shagging him. Yeah, I just, I feel, Emma is, you know, conflicted. But I think you're absolutely right. I think in a minute he will meet somebody his own age and that will be the end of that. And then Emma can take that experience and go back to her own age. This is just a blip in time. And life is too short for regrets.
39:26Emma, yet again, this has genuinely caused a huge debate amongst the wangers. Big, big response. Don't keep the debate going. The comment section is open. do you think it's acceptable for a 47-year-old woman to sleep with a 21-year-old man, vice versa? You know, all of the above.
39:44Maria McErlane:Yeah, we're going to have a fist fight about it afterwards, aren't we? I wonder what you were going to say.
39:51Just time. He is learning a lot.
39:58Just time before we go for this week's... Am I Weird? Ah, music to my ears.
40:05Maria McErlane:Today's Am I Weird comes to us from somebody calling themselves the Posh Pia. Hi, Graham and Maria. I have lived most of my adult life in Dublin. A number of years ago, I discovered very nice hotels have nice loos. And very nice hotels have very nice loos. When in the city, I use the toilet in a five-star hotel. I vary which one, and it may be once a month or so. I do occasionally stop in the bar or lounge, pay them my eight euros for a cup of tea or 20 euros for a glass of wine and maybe sit and relax for a bit. I consider this a toll I must occasionally pay for the privilege of having a nice loo.
40:44Maria McErlane:I am now so used to having a nice comfy place to pee and turn my nose up at other city centre alternatives. It is my little secret and I like it. Am I weird? I don't think you're weird. Posh PR I think this is more like a hobby though Isn't it? You found yourself a nice little hobby I feel you should start taking photographs Of the interiors Of these posh loos in five star hotels And maybe post them on Instagram And build up a following that way With other people that aren't weird But like to wee in nice places Yes, I would say you're not weird It's just a life hack It is a life hack It's a life hack And also, you know, not everyone can do it because you need to have a certain confidence to walk into a five-star hotel.
41:31Maria McErlane:And a briefcase. Oh, yes. Full of toilet paper that you've nicked from other five-star hotels. And little soaps. Oh, yeah. Nothing else. What you could do is take some little soaps from one hotel and then deposit them in another five-star hotel. Blow their minds. Mess with their heads. Oh, my God. Mess with their heads. What's going on? No, not weird at all. I think it's a clever thing to do. I do too. And I do like the fact that you have admitted that sometimes, you know, if there's obviously a doorman who's a little bit suspicious of you, you will then go to the bar and pay£20 for a glass of wine or£8 for a cup of tea.
42:07Maria McErlane:20 euros. Oh, euros, sorry. Yeah, because he's from Ireland. Ireland, Dublin, isn't he? But yes, loo's in five-star hotels are normally pretty good. Yeah, and clean. And sometimes you can actually dry your hair under the hairdryer. Wow. have a shower perhaps and sleep in one of the rooms I was tired after my shopping and when I went to the loo I was exhausted so I went to lay down in room 113 so we're both saying not weird at all not weird quite an interesting hobby clever clever clever not that interesting well with that message from the posh peer we say farewell this episode is done is over is finished If you have a dilemma or an am I weird, do get in touch.
42:55The email address is wangingon at listen.co.uk.
42:59Maria McErlane:And if you do have problems that need proper advice, because we're not experts, as you know, please go to our Instagram bio at wangingon to find the proper channels. But we are back next Monday. That bit's true. Wanging On with Graham and Maria is a Platform Media production. We'll see you next week. Goodbye.
43:50We'll see you next time. Make your move. Order on the Sweetgreen app. Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. visit 1-800-CONTACTS.COM today to save on your first order. 1-800-CONTACTS
From the publisher
Graham and Maria tackle two listener dilemmas that have caused more debate than ever before:- Is it OK for a 47-year-old woman to sleep with a 21-year-old man? - And would you change your baby on a friend's living room floor?
Plus, Graham reveals what it's like being photographed by the paparazzi - including one particularly uncomfortable encounter at a funeral.
📧 If you have a dilemma for the show, please email WangingOn@listen.co.uk
Wanging On with Graham and Maria is produced by Platform Media.
----- 📲 Follow Wanging On on social media for clips and dilemmas: - Follow us on Instagram: @wangingon - Follow us on TikTok: @wangingon - Follow us on Facebook @wangingon
----- ⚠️ Disclaimer: Graham and Maria are not qualified professionals and do not offer professional advice. The topics discussed on this podcast are based on personal experiences and opinions, and should not be taken as expert advice. If any of the issues raised affect you, please seek support from appropriate professional services such as your GP, NHS services, or relevant charities and helplines, including these: https://platformmedia.uk/helplines/
----- 📖 Chapters: 00:00 Coming Up...00:29 Urgh: Paparazzi08:39 Where to Change the Baby?22:09 A 21 YO "Toyboy!"36:30 Posh Peeing...
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