Why This Was Graham's Easiest Madonna Interview Yet...

10:18Graham Norton:But now she's back on, you know, the Radio 1 playlist. Fantastic. Which is, that is, you know, whenever we're having hits, that's the biggest achievement of all. That youth radio is paying attention to this woman and going, this music is, you know, should be played, should be listened to.

10:35Maria McErlane:But she reached iconic status sort of a long time ago and she's remained there.

10:40Graham Norton:Well, listen, let's have a dance party later with Confessions 2. It is very dancey.

10:45Maria McErlane:I hung up on you.

10:46Graham Norton:That's Confessions 1.

10:47Maria McErlane:I know. Yeah, well done you. I'll go into Confessions 2 after this letter.

10:51Graham Norton:But first, a break.

10:57Graham Norton:Tis time, tis time Maria, our first letter please Okay

11:01Maria McErlane:Dear Graham and Maria I am a woman in my 20s I wrote this

11:08Graham Norton:You're right

11:09Maria McErlane:I am a woman in my 20s who has recently started therapy to deal with experiencing overwhelming emotions day to day I've been in therapy for about four months now with a male therapist we get on really well where similarly slightly awkward people have the same sense of humor and manage to have a real laugh in our sessions the issue is i'm becoming obsessed with him and i'm worried this is going to get in the way of my relationship with my boyfriend from the first session with my therapist i thought he was really good looking and while i didn't initially think it was an issue to find another man attractive i'm worried it's going beyond that I'm constantly thinking about him and what to bring to our sessions.

11:55Maria McErlane:I feel like my weeks revolve around it. And after our sessions, I replay everything that he said. I'm a massive daydreamer anyway and find comfort in this. But I've started to worry that my newfound happiness in life is coming from thinking about my therapist and not the actual sessions. I love my partner, but I'm starting to feel like a terrible person for thinking about another man all the time. and I'm worried he'll realize I'm having these thoughts. My therapist has been totally professional throughout and hasn't given me any reason for these thoughts. Everything I've read online has told me to bring these thoughts to therapy, but I'm worried I'll make things weird and I don't want to ruin a good therapeutic relationship that we already have.

12:40Maria McErlane:But maybe it's worth it to stop feeling like I'm somehow betraying my partner and that is from Anonymous. Oh, Anonymous, I kind of feel your pain, but this is so common. Yeah. Really common because what's happening is you're having an intimate, not a sexual intimacy, but an emotional intimacy with your therapist. And of course, especially if you're feeling kind of a little bit crazy anyway, you're clinging on to somebody who's talking sense to you. And that's very appealing and very enticing. and you won't be the first person to fall in love with their therapist and you won't be the last. But I think what you have to do is what you've said, you've looked it up.

13:26Maria McErlane:You have to take it to your therapist and he will explain it. You don't want to get rid of him. You don't want to find someone else because you have a good relationship. But you have to understand the reasons for you falling for him and that this will never be reciprocated and find a way to go forward.

13:48Graham Norton:I mean, it's so sad because, you know, that thing she says about, I don't want to ruin the good therapeutic. No, you'll make it a good therapeutic relationship if you sort this out. Because right now, it's getting in the way of the therapy.

14:03Maria McErlane:And what you're doing is performing for this therapist because you want him to laugh. You want to have a lovely chat together. This is no good for you. You're paying for something that you don't want to do. Go and work as a stand-up comic if you want that. What you need to do is tell him your innermost thoughts and feelings. It's your money. Don't waste it. And keep it real. There's also something about, I don't know,

14:26Graham Norton:it kind of reflects on her relationship in a way. If she finds the idea of a man who's willing to listen to her for an hour this attractive.

14:36Maria McErlane:You're paying him.

14:36Graham Norton:No, but it suggests that boyfriend does not do this.

14:40Maria McErlane:Well, it suggests that she doesn't share her innermost thoughts and fears and worries with her boyfriend.

14:47Graham Norton:No, but it's also about attention. Like someone is paying attention to her fully, is focused on her completely for an hour. And that is blowing her mind and changing her world. And, you know, obviously she's not going to... Like, I think, one, you're right, so many people fall in love with their therapist. But I can remember when I started, I mean, it doesn't happen now, But when I started on telly and I would sometimes go to photo shoots and do photo shoots, I would weirdly find the photographers attractive because they were paying attention to me. Wow. You know, like they were really looking at, they were kind of seeing you and paying attention or move your head slightly to the, do this, da, da, da.

15:26Graham Norton:And it was, it. Even the women? Even the women, particularly the women. Yeah. God, it was hot. Yeah.

15:34Maria McErlane:But that's sweet because you were on telly anyway. Yeah. So you had a lot of attention. What's wrong with you?

15:39Graham Norton:No, but that's from a whole group. But just one person focusing on you like that, there is something attractive about it. And I think in this instance, that's what she's going through, is this therapist is focused on her for an hour and she is loving it. And it's clearly not what she's getting from her boyfriend.

15:59Maria McErlane:But she has to remember, Anonymous has to remember, that he is not choosing to do this. No, no, he's just doing his job. He's doing his job. and you are paying him to listen to you for an hour. And if you bumped into him in the pub and said, let's have a drink together, he would say no.

16:16Graham Norton:Well, he should say no. Well, he will say no. Here's the thing. I mean, I think Anonymous knows what to do. She just doesn't want to do it because it will destroy her fantasy. Exactly. But actually, you need to bite the bullet. And yes, it is going to feel weird. It's going to feel awkward and uncomfortable. But if he's as good a therapist as you say he is, he will navigate this he'll make it on weird he'll make it fine

16:40Maria McErlane:because he's heard it so many times before

16:43Graham Norton:and he'll get you to the other side of this that's the other thing he will not be surprised by this at all

16:48Maria McErlane:no and really anonymous don't waste your time trying to have fun with this person who you're paying and trying to make him laugh and trying to turn it into a relationship because he wants to hear the things that are bothering you and the things that are worrying you and your over-emotional state. And this is part of it. So to tell him this would be honest and true and also really necessary. And I think once you tell him and he explains to you, this obsession will kind of decrease, don't you think?

17:21Graham Norton:It will decrease. But also, I do think it's going to reflect back on her relationship. Because I think often when people fall in love with their therapist, it's because they're single, they don't have this emotional outlet in their life, da-da-da-da-da. There's something, I think, as her and the therapist talk about this, she may find out what's missing in her relationship with her boyfriend. I don't know. I'm just projecting.

17:46Maria McErlane:I think you're right. I mean, I feel for her. I really do. Shall we see what the wangers have to say?

17:51Graham Norton:Yes, I mean, it's a very sweet problem. And here's the great thing. You're in therapy. You're in the best place to be dealing with any problem. So use your therapist. And yes, it is going to spoil your fantasy, but it needs to happen.

18:05Maria McErlane:Yeah. It's just that, Anonymous. It's just a fantasy. Now, Jenny from Newcastle says, Well, I would usually say get therapy, but that's already backfiring here. Get a new therapist, one that you're not attracted to, a woman or a nice old man, and add this to the pile of things to discuss. I hear what you're saying, Jenny, but I don't think that's necessary. I mean, to change therapist is kind of like you've got to go back to the beginning again. This therapist that you're in love with or think you're in love with or obsessed by, he knows a lot of your stuff. Yes. Already. So don't waste what's happened already, but do tell him.

18:43Graham Norton:And also, he'll, because I think, you know, he's been listening to you for a long time now. So, yeah, I'm with you. He'll have a shortcut into how to fix this problem.

18:51Maria McErlane:Yeah. He'll probably just kind of open a cupboard and go, I'm just adding you to the list. and there'll be, you know, Anita and Barbara and Jeffrey. Eileen in New York City says, this sounds like classic transference to me. That's what I was thinking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I encourage her to look up this term and discuss it with her therapist. If he handles it appropriately, she can continue working with him. But if he is inappropriate in any way, it's time to find a new therapist. Good luck. So we'll just say transference, the redirection of feelings and desires, especially of those unconsciously retained from childhood towards a new object, such as a therapist.

19:32Graham Norton:Can I just say, also, that inappropriate thing of, you know, therapists not being great therapists, I've heard of that quite often as well.

19:39Maria McErlane:Let's not go there.

19:40Graham Norton:I know. We don't want to give her hope. No. And if you're lucky, he might be really unprofessional.

19:46Maria McErlane:He might say, thank goodness, Anonymous, I've been thinking of you all.

19:50Graham Norton:Yeah, I'm not a qualified therapist. I'm just a bloke from the street. Yeah. I was here for the washer and dryer.

20:01Maria McErlane:Donna says, I'm not a therapist. That's what he said. I'm not a therapist, but you do have one you can speak to. My advice would be to talk, to explain these feelings as soon as you feel able. It sounds like you've developed an excellent rapport, and these feelings are important to address openly. If he's a good therapist, he should be able to help you work through them professionally and supportively. And Anne, who is the trauma therapist in Northern Ireland, says it is not uncommon for clients to experience some transference towards their therapist. Many clients are in therapy due to attachment issues.

20:39Maria McErlane:So it makes sense that being the focus of someone's attention at each session leads to misplaced feelings of closeness. If your wanger explains this to a therapist, he will be totally understanding and should explain where these feelings are coming from. It's perfectly okay. No awkwardness to worry about. The insight gained will definitely be worth the courage.

21:04Graham Norton:Anonymous, we had lots of good advice from this for the wangers. A lot of people identifying this idea of transference. And certainly Anne sounds like she knows what she's talking about. So maybe take that advice. or, of course, seek out more professional advice because, as Maria's a pains to point out, we are not experts. But we will have another dilemma in just a moment. Get business done with the new American Express Graphite Business Cash Unlimited card. With unlimited 2 % cash back on all eligible purchases, unlimited 5 % cash back on flights and prepaid hotels booked through American Express Travel Online, and a flexible spending capacity that can grow with your business, you'll have the confidence to keep building.

21:43Graham Norton:Apply today and earn a welcome offer of$1 ,500 cash back after you spend$50 ,000 in qualifying purchases on your new card within the first six months of card membership. Terms apply. Learn more at go.mx. Maria, Maria, how do wangers get these episodes as soon as they drop?

22:00Maria McErlane:Oh, well, you see, Graham, you can tap follow on Spotify or subscribe on YouTube or your podcast app of choice. Totally free. Plus on Spotify you can tap the little bell icon and then you get notified when a new episode drops.

22:17Graham Norton:They really have thought of everything. What a world, Maria.

22:19Maria McErlane:That's every Monday, by the way.

22:22Graham Norton:Letter number two approaching. On the Problem Express.

22:27Maria McErlane:I liked letter number one. It was very sweet. It was, and also... Makes me want to go into therapy.

22:33Graham Norton:I'm a professional therapist.

22:36Maria McErlane:Dear Graham and Maria, we have a successful picture framing business in West London, which has been going for over a decade. We are an all-lady team and are all of a certain age. It's going swimmingly, but we have a problem with gentleman customers. They have a tendency to mansplain, which is frustrating given that they know nothing about picture framing. This is just a simple job and shouldn't take long, they say. Or, if you cut it carefully, you could use the off-cut for another job. Or, and I'd clamp that overnight if I were you. Occasionally, they even draw a diagram explaining how we should run our business.

23:22Maria McErlane:Our question is, how to stop this flow of unwanted advice? Without being too rude, we have an annoyance surcharge, but this doesn't go far enough. This is from Annabelle, Lucy, Nick and Lisa. I think what you do is you put up a big, you frame something.

23:42Graham Norton:Oh, they're good at that. Yeah, yeah.

23:44Maria McErlane:And then you say, and you put it above where they come in and you say, how can we frame this? No mansplaining, please. Oh my goodness.

23:56Graham Norton:Yeah. But men won't, they won't clock that.

24:00Maria McErlane:You point to it when they start to say, I think if you just... See, here's the thing. I think if you just do...

24:07Graham Norton:I think, though, I know because you're all female, da-da-da-da-da, but I think this is just men. I don't think it's about them being women. I think, like, so if my car is broken, I would just take it to the garage and go, makes it broken. but I think a lot of men would go in I thought it might be the da da da I didn't want to open her up because da da da it could be this they just like that shit they like thinking they know something so to amuse yourselves ladies what I would do is I would let them do their mansplaining and then blind them with science quickly take them out of their depth

24:49Maria McErlane:is there much science in framing?

24:51Graham Norton:there will be if they make it up you know just kind of like well, we were going to use a trodlyzer on it, but of course the 3.8 will be too thick. Good. And then the men will be going, yeah, yeah, that, yeah. And if they go, I am a framer, that's rubbish, just go, oh, sorry, I thought you were a twat.

25:09Maria McErlane:I mean, there's a reason that they're taking their stuff to be framed and not doing it themselves. Yeah. That could be on your poster as well. I'm going to disagree with you there and say it's not to do with being women. It is so to do with being women.

25:24Graham Norton:I think it's more to do with being men.

25:26Maria McErlane:Well, yes, but men mansplain to women. That's the thing.

25:31Graham Norton:I think mansplain to everyone.

25:32Maria McErlane:I don't think men mansplain as much, and I've seen this in action, they don't mansplain as much to a man. And normally if I'm having something done in the house, I can't do myself because you know I like to bodge everything, I get a male friend to come round so that I don't get the painter or decorator or electrician or plumber or whatever doing I'm speaking to a woman acting. It's different. It's very different.

26:00Graham Norton:Well, I get it all the time from people who come around to do things. They explain to you. Well, they try. I mean, I nod off. I have no interest. I mean, that's the thing. I think they explain it to me because they think I'll be interested because I'm a man. And of course, I have zero interest.

26:15Maria McErlane:Yeah, but I do think mansplaining happens a lot. And I kind of feel their pain at the framers because it's really annoying when somebody is telling you how to do your job. As you say, you've been going for 10 years and you must be good at it because you're still going and men are still bringing their stuff in. So, you know, no mansplaining, please.

26:36Graham Norton:I feel like then you'll have to talk about mansplaining. I just think because you're all in it together, because it's this female workplace, you know, it'll never stop. So just find ways to amuse yourselves. You know, have a sound effect button when people do it so that all the people out the back know that it's going on. You know, there's just ways to make it a fun part of your day. Yeah. That there's some idiot.

26:57Maria McErlane:Oh, yeah, maybe you should have a button like QI. And if people say the obvious thing. Yes. You can just press the button going, and they go, what's that? Oh, this is just the 14th person that said that today.

27:10Graham Norton:Who didn't know what they're talking about? I've doubled your prices

27:16Maria McErlane:I like the idea of actually just saying No mansplaining, please

27:19Graham Norton:I just feel like you'll have to talk about it then

27:21Maria McErlane:Well, what do you have to say? They know, no mansplaining means

27:24Graham Norton:Oh, that would, look, have you met a man? That would just be green light now

27:29Maria McErlane:So if they say, well, when you say mansplain You go, don't speak, don't speak Let me explain mansplaining to you Zip it and chuck away the key

27:39Graham Norton:By mansplaining, I assume you mean the... You know?

27:43Maria McErlane:Shall we see what the wangers have to say? All right. I like a mansplaining question. Okay, Dave in Brighton says, I think you should all take a deep breath, have a nice cup of tea, and stop worrying your pretty little heads about it. Okay, Dave, I get it. Seriously, though, if you're confident enough in your abilities, why should a few pieces of unwanted advice bother you? It's surely all part and parcel of a customer-facing business. I'm sure mechanics and builders are told how to do their jobs by meddling customers. I don't think it's particularly specific to a female-run framing business. Well, you would say that, David Brighton, because you're a man.

28:20Graham Norton:But also, David Brighton is right, is that once you're dealing with the public, then everything's annoying. Exhausting. So you open to framers, people will come in.

28:30Maria McErlane:And give you unwanted advice. Beth in South Yorkshire says, I don't think this is exclusive to you your gender or your age Beth would say that

28:39Graham Norton:she's a woman

28:40Maria McErlane:alright point taken pooché we all go to work and are faced with annoying arrogant know-it-alls every day whether that be customers or colleagues if they're keeping you in business I think you have to suck it up and just slag them off once they're out the door

28:54Graham Norton:oh I love slagging people off once they're out the door hey Kath is in I'm on Ford where is she? I'm on Ford no truly I'm on Ford thank you

29:03Maria McErlane:I've got an excellent idea for the ladies doing the framing business with the mansplaining. I'm going to suggest they watch Remington Steele, where she employed Pierce Brosnan to be the pretend face of the business while she was behind the scenes doing all the work. I think they should probably get an old granddad type to work behind the counter, just nodding at the men when they come in, taking the orders and leave them, get on with all the crafting.

29:32Graham Norton:That's a good idea. It could be a volunteer. I mean... Maybe one of their dads or granddads could come in and volunteer.

29:39Maria McErlane:No, Kat from Amanford, we're 2026. We don't need to front a company with a man just to make men feel at ease and stop mansplaining. No, no. I'm sounding like a rabid feminist now, aren't I?

29:52Graham Norton:No, but the men are relaxed. That's why they're doing all this mansplaining. They feel very comfortable. Men walk through the world feeling very comfortable. Isn't that the truth?

30:02Maria McErlane:Yeah. Okay, Julie says, this might not always be a mansplaining thing, but just an attempt to lower the price. Oh, good. Oh, my goodness. I like this.

30:12Graham Norton:We didn't know this.

30:12Maria McErlane:I work for a stone fabrication company.

30:15Graham Norton:Say that again.

30:16Maria McErlane:Stone fabrication company. Is she God? You fabricate stone?

30:20Graham Norton:Yeah, I make stones.

30:21Maria McErlane:No, I fabricate stones. That's what makes me make. How do you make a stone?

30:25Graham Norton:Well, you're God, and you go back to the beginning of the Bible.

30:30Maria McErlane:don't you just go onto the beach and steal stuff yeah i fabricated this one

30:36Graham Norton:okay would you like a bigger one i can fabricate that later this is not the problem here oh yeah

30:42Maria McErlane:i work for a stone fabrication company and the amount of times people call or visit asking for off cuts as they consider this will be next to nothing it's almost as if they are doing us a favour by taking these cumbersome pieces of marble away? The answer is sarcasm. Make it fun. See between you lovely ladies who can come up with the most outrageous responses.

31:06Graham Norton:That's kind of what I said.

31:07Maria McErlane:Yeah, yeah, it is. It's a sort of dangerous game though, isn't it? Because actually what you want to say after a while is, oh, fuck off.

31:14Graham Norton:Yeah, try that. Make a game of it. Tell them to fuck off. We're playing the fuck off game. Say, oh, fuck off.

31:22Maria McErlane:It'll be ready by Tuesday.

31:25Graham Norton:It's Fuck Back Again on Tuesday.

31:32Maria McErlane:Fuck right back in here.

31:37Maria McErlane:I think the fuck off game is very good. It's pleasing, isn't it? Yeah. Shall we play the fuck off game? Yeah. I'm going to play it for the rest of the day. Oh, my goodness. That has exhausted me. It really has. The mansplaining has exhausted me.

31:52Graham Norton:Ladies, thank you very much for that problem. Lots of advice there for the wangers and sympathy as well. If you'd like to wade in, you could add comments below this. Do you see how that works?

32:03Maria McErlane:I do, and I would like to hear those comments, especially from mansplainers. Oh, yes. Yay!

32:09Graham Norton:This comment, what you mean by comment, in a moment, it is time for Am I Weird. Cue the music. Am I weird?

32:21Maria McErlane:Didn't get it right that time. I'd like to join in.

32:23Graham Norton:Oh, were you lip syncing?

32:24Maria McErlane:Yeah.

32:24Graham Norton:For your life.

32:28Maria McErlane:Today's Am I Weird, Graham, comes to us from Derek in Edinburgh. How are you spelling Derek? D-E-R-R-I-C-K. Yes, you are weird. Yeah, that's it. Goodbye. Am I weird? I have a diet that I know is a bit unusual. Great. But most people who know about it tell me it makes me weird, whereas I think they're being a bit narrow-minded. I live alone and eat two meals a day, and it's the same meal every time. I fry half a 500-gram pack of minced beef, then mix in the scrambled egg, some mashed up steamed broccoli, and a handful of porridge oats. I don't add any seasoning, even salt. I also eat a slice of cheese while cooking and have some yogurt for dessert for calcium.

33:19Maria McErlane:Of course, very important. I never get bored with this diet and have checked that it's nutritionally complete. Also, it makes online grocery shopping much simpler. If dog and cat owners aren't weird for giving their pets the same thing for every meal, why should I be weird as opposed to merely unusual for eating a similarly unvaried diet? Oh, Derek in Edinburgh, Derek with the CK in Edinburgh, I don't think you're weird. I just think you're missing out on an awful lot of taste sensation. in your life. He must eat out.

33:55Graham Norton:Does he? I mean, you can't have anyone over because no one's got, you know, no one's got to thank you for that.

34:00Maria McErlane:He lives alone.

34:01Graham Norton:A kind of a patty with some oats in it.

34:04Maria McErlane:I just feel, you know, of course you've found something you like.

34:08Graham Norton:Easy to cook.

34:09Maria McErlane:Easy to cook.

34:10Graham Norton:And actually, once I would quite like it. Once? He eats two meals a day,

34:16Maria McErlane:but it's the same thing for every meal. I mean, it feels to me, Derek, like you're eating because it's eating to live instead of living to eat. You're not embracing all the taste sensations that are out there. I want to know what the rest of your life is like because I think it's probably quite narrow.

34:35Graham Norton:Is he a gym bunny or something? I wouldn't think so. No, that sounds like the sort of thing a gym bro would do, that they just have the same thing. I'm going to have, you know, a chicken breast with this, with broccoli. That's all I'm going to eat. and I just eat the same thing because I know exactly what the nutritional value of it is, blah, blah, blah.

34:53Maria McErlane:I think you're being kind here.

34:55Graham Norton:What do you think, it's just big lumps out in Edinburgh?

34:58Maria McErlane:I don't think he's a big lump because he doesn't eat anything else apart from this twice a day. And he's checked and it's nutritionally sufficient. And nutritionally sufficient is not the same as enjoying things, of breaking bread with friends and going, oh my goodness, take this, this is amazing. There's a lot of social interaction that goes on around food. And there's a reason we go out to eat with people because it's breaking bread with friends, it's doing all of that. And I think you're denying yourself some of this. I absolutely get that this is what you like and you've decided. But I would say, Derek, maybe once a week, try a restaurant.

35:38Graham Norton:Yes, I think you could eat out. You could meet your friends out and not order something similar to this. I do think, though, Derek's obviously one of those people he finds deciding what to make stressful. You know, some people do.

35:49Maria McErlane:I know, I get it. Especially when you're cooking for one, it's so boring.

35:53Graham Norton:But he solved that problem. I mean, he really has.

35:56Maria McErlane:He solved that problem by embracing the boredom and repeating the boredom on a daily basis. But no stress.

36:03Graham Norton:You know, he has his press repeat on the online shopping and in it comes and cook it, eat it, cook it, eat it. I mean, the problem, Derek, and I don't know if this ever will be a problem, if you meet someone else. and suddenly...

36:18Maria McErlane:Not if he stays in twice a day for the same meal. If you're cooking for two,

36:22Graham Norton:then this won't cut it, I'm afraid. Unless you really meet your match. What bonded you? Love of oats and mince?

36:33Maria McErlane:Love of the same meal twice a day. It's just, I feel...

36:38Graham Norton:He wouldn't have enough to split the 500 gram pack then.

36:39Maria McErlane:I feel it's kind of not life limiting. It's kind of like pleasure limiting that you're doing. and that's why I'd like to know what the rest of your life is like. Is that pleasure limiting too? Because I feel we get one go at this, one go on the merry-go-round and we need to embrace so much of it to have the best time and a multitude of experiences. And I want to kind of take Derek, and when we do Edinburgh, maybe we'll take Derek out for dinner. Oh, yes.

37:06Graham Norton:You know what Derek should do? Yeah. Keep a food diary.

37:12Graham Norton:It'd be a bestseller.

37:15Maria McErlane:Oh my God, Monday. Mince, oats, broccoli.

37:20Graham Norton:Bit of cheese, mince, oats, broccoli, egg.

37:23Maria McErlane:So I'm going to say, Derek, you're not weird, but you're denying yourself unnecessarily a lot of other pleasures.

37:31Graham Norton:But if Derek would like to come to our show in Edinburgh, I'd love to talk to him more. I would genuinely like to find out more about this and see if he goes on dates and things.

37:38Maria McErlane:Shall we take him a pie?

37:40Graham Norton:A mince pie?

37:42Maria McErlane:You knew what I was going to say next.

37:46Graham Norton:Well, as Derek digs into another helping of fried mince, we bid adieu to this episode of Wanging On. It's over.

37:55Maria McErlane:You know what's going to happen. Lots of people are going to claim to be Derek.

37:59Graham Norton:Yeah, it'll be just a stink, a terrible smell of cooked mince in the auditorium. Waiting outside to stay short.

38:06Maria McErlane:I have to say that we're not experts.

38:08Graham Norton:Can I just say, Derek, an onion?

38:10Maria McErlane:Yeah. What's wrong with the sautéed onion? A little bit of onion. Oh, no, I don't like onion. I don't like onion. I had an incident with an onion when I was nine.

38:18Graham Norton:Grating a little bit of garlic. Or you can get that lazy garlic.

38:21Maria McErlane:Oh, my God, yeah, garlic. Yeah. Anyway, we're not, we're very good at cooking, but we're not experts. So if you need expert advice on anything that you've heard today, please go onto our Instagram page, which is at wangingon, and you will find direction to other areas of help.

38:39Graham Norton:Lovely. Synchronised swimming. We are.

38:41Maria McErlane:I'm running with this now aren't I

38:43Graham Norton:Wang Yon-Gren Maria is a platform media production and guess what we're back next week bye