Dodge Charger EV Sounds Fake 👎

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1:13What is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another regularly scheduled episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez. I'm Andrew. And I'm David. So I say regularly scheduled because last episode was a bonus episode, our first ever live version of the show from South by Southwest on stage with a bunch of you guys in the audience. A good amount of you actually showed up. Thank you. Thank you. For those who were actually there. It was a good time. How many people? Like 3 ,000? 4 ,000? I would estimate 250 ,000. A good quarter million. I was going to say a quarter million people.

1:45You know like the Eros tour? Picture that. But bigger. At 10 a.m. on a Saturday. It was good. 250. Yeah, 200 something people. Which is cool. we got to have like a sort of a live trivia version of uh asking ourselves questions about the audience and we had answers from the audience so that was fun we also talked about dig trying to make a comeback we talked about apple intelligence being delayed and some other stuff as well so if you want to watch that it's in the audio feed the videos on the youtube channel we've got like our mics that were like holding and talking a lot of people said you sounded way different yeah because You're using a different mic.

2:22You know, there's something about this mic that I like the way my voice sounds in this microphone. And even... Let me switch to your mic real quick. Oh, God. See how different I sound? No. It doesn't sound right at all. Right? Wait. Yeah. Oh. We sound more similar in the same mic than we do. Exactly. Yeah. So I stick to this mic. But yeah, I agree. I sound different. There's also like reverb because it's an enormous empty... Not empty. But an enormous room.

2:53but no it was a good time go check that one out but believe it or not we do have some more stuff to talk about because some more news has happened since then also very quick update to the apple intelligence story that i just wanted to bring up real quick uh apple has pulled one of their commercials that features the apple intelligence like deep siri integration thing because people were basically saying that it was uh misinformation at this point yeah and then they also added a bunch of disclaimers around their website like on the iPhone 16 pages about what it can do and when it's coming. It says now it says Siri's personal context understanding on-screen awareness and in-app actions are in development and will be available with a future software update.

3:30So the thing that was built from the ground up for Siri AI that was coming in a future update will now be in a more future update. Yeah that's where we're at. Apple intelligence god that's a lot of fine print. If you go to the bottom of the iPhone website look how much fine print there is. oh it's always like that oh yeah the polishing cloth has fine brain like that my gosh okay so yeah all that is happening there were also i guess we'll get to it later but there are some rumors about a an ios overhaul so we'll talk about that that's in here uh but yeah okay we've got some stop some topics here do we want to jump right into one plus evolving the alert slider into a button we can i think you jumped into it already so i have been a fan of the alert slider forever Remember the OnePlus One came out and the alert slider was an innovative new feature?

4:19It's been on OnePlus phones, mostly on all of their phones, minus like a tiny gap, since then. And it's a great feature and I think a lot of people like it. And there's some talk that they are killing the alert slider and turning it into a button. Possibly just a customizable button that can do what the alert slider did, but could also be customized and do other things. Where have I heard that before? It kind of seems like a similar to maybe like an action button on a certain iPhone. Yes. I, this is one of those decisions that when you look at the numbers makes perfect sense. But when you look at the fans, it doesn't seem to make any sense because the fans are like, no, I love the alert slider.

4:59And I love the alert slider. But well, at least it's not them just taking it away. Right. The default on the action button on the iPhone is the alert slider function. Basically. And you can still do it in your pocket, you know, without looking at your phone. but I liked it the the like you can tell where it is though right because like there and there's three clicks correct in the oneplus yeah yeah so you would have to I'm assuming if it was the same function you would be like click click click but this you can be like I'm all the way down I'm all the way up true you can feel it in your pocket true but but the action button is awesome okay I don't disagree I feel like it's a good trade-off I know someone who would disagree and I find it funny this is happening so one of our friends Bo just texted me last week like hey you didn't do a review on the OnePlus 13R like can you let me know how it is?

5:46And I said oh what about this and this like I have an extra pixel if you just want that and he's like I really like the alert slider and that's like a non-negotiable for me so then this coming out within the week of him saying that C1 Plus it's a real person. The alert slider is pretty OP. It was funny that they got rid of the alert slider a couple generations ago. People freaked out. That was like a proper scandal. I remember that. And then they brought it back and made a big deal about bringing it back. And now they're like, how about a compromise? Yeah. So I think the action button is great.

6:18And Pete Lau went on the OnePlus forums and said, we are evolving the alert slider into something. He did a lot of fancy dancing words saying, imagine it evolved around you. You know. Yeah. I'm sure Apple evolved the headphone jack years ago also. By just not cutting the hole. So, yeah. I think it's I'm on team action button. some other people may disagree with me. I'm with you on that. I could be swayed. I'm swayed. I was swayed instantly. I folded under I could be swayed. Okay, I'm swayed. The funny thing is that in Pete Lau's post on the OnePlus forums the way he was talking about the button made it sound exactly like nothing talked about the space button that they added, the private space or whatever they called it.

7:05What do they call it again? Essential space. Essential space button. Yeah, he talked about it like in the exact same way so i thought it was going to have the exact same functionality but then the way he described it afterwards it just sounds like an action button which is cool i mean i love having customizable buttons and switches on devices so it's an ai slider yeah yeah cool next up we have chrome a new chrome update specifically one that is fixing affiliate swapping in extensions on chrome so i'm sure we all remember honey i think we covered it on this pod and you made a video about it but chrome is making an update to their browser of uh extensions policy policy thank you yeah and uh so this is what they wrote they said affiliate links codes or cookies must only be included when the extension provides a direct and transparent user benefit related to the extension's core functionality it is not permitted to inject affiliate links without related user action without providing a tangible benefit to users I almost could read there for a second.

8:06So then it's just like some common violations include inserting affiliate links when no discount cashback or donation is provided. But this is definitely a direct shot to Honey. Yeah, this is their entire business model. And PayPal paid a lot of money for them. I'm sure that they made that back off of stealing people's affiliate links. but yeah i don't really know what honey is gonna do from here on out because saving people money and not making that money back is not gonna be a good business business model for them right they'll probably just we need we need the other browsers to do this so chrome is one of the most popular but there's still safari where someone could do this there's still i mean i doubt many firefox users are using honey it's a good point though anyways but yeah safari internet explorer are still like defaults.

8:51Wait, is it? Edge. Edge. Sorry. Showing our age. They're still like the defaults. So if they're still doing it, I'm sure Honey will still be making plenty of money. That's true. So hopefully they do. Yeah. All right. We reviewed a certain car recently. Were you here for that? I was here for the delivery, right? I saw it. I saw it temporarily. Oh, okay. So you haven't heard it in person? I've heard it because I've heard Miles doing it. So, I just wanted to bring up the car and get you guys' takes on it, because I had a pretty straightforward take. I drove it for a week. It is a Dodge Charger. Cool.

9:29There's a bunch of different Dodge Chargers. This is the electric version of the Dodge Charger. And there aren't any good convincing reasons to buy it. Oh. In my opinion. Okay. Zero. Yeah. Driving it, like, I could tell what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be fun. It's a charger. All the rest of the chargers are supposed to be fun, too. Interesting. But as you get on the list, you're like, all right, what is the real, like, king thing that it's amazing at? Is it performance? Is it that? Okay, maybe you could argue that. It's the quickest charger ever. It's 0 to 60 in 3.3 seconds.

10:08It's 600 plus horsepower all-wheel drive. So it's the fastest, like, launching charger. But, you know, a quarter mile is, like, 11 and a half seconds. Like if you really just care about that in an EV, there are plenty of EVs that are faster. Like I brought up a couple of examples in the video. Model 3 Performance walks it. EV6 GT is faster. If you really care about that for the same price, which is$80 ,000 for the version I tested, you could get a used Plaid. Damn. So the reason you'd buy it can't just be straight line speed. Okay, so what other reasons are there? It's a charger. It's a charger?

10:42And the people who want to buy the charger want the charger. I feel like it's such a specific product. Yeah. Yeah. I just realized how good the name is for an EV. For an EV. Yeah. Missed opportunity there. They could have done something with that. Oh, shoot. They could have called it the supercharger. That also is though a - Or the fast charger. A car thing. Yeah. Hypercharger. It won't be a track car because it weighs 6 ,000 pounds and it's not good at that. So there's that. uh it won't be a road tripper because it only has 240 miles of range and only charges at 183 kilowatts it won't be a charger because it doesn't have an engine and it does have that loud speaker on the back and don't get me wrong it is loud it's very it is a lot it's louder than micah it's a very loud speaker system 126 decibels it makes all sorts of noises it rumbles the actual car as are sitting in it and you can feel it when you rev and yes you can rev interesting but it doesn't sound as good as the gas version number one and it also gets annoying because it's uh it just kind of has this droning because it doesn't like shift gears so you know how if you'll like you know cvt you'll like get up to speed and just kind of stays at the same like if you drove a regular gas car and just like shifted to second gear and never got out of second gear that's what it sounds like to drive this car around so it's kind of just and so it's loud yes if that's what you're into but unlike maybe the ionic 5 which could let you like play with the gears or whatever you can't do that with this car so it's just it's not a good charger it's not a good road tripper it's not a good track car it's not a good straight line car what is it can i have a ask a question yeah the sound does it like uh go with like the speed you're going does that or is it just the same like okay high power revving i'll give you a couple notes about the sound interestingly it seems to be coordinated directly to how many g's you're experiencing so it's quiet when you're not accelerating but when you're braking or accelerating it gets louder and like a little more high pitched so as you drive maybe pulling up to a stoplight you'd hear it go and then as you pull off from the stoplight and then you get up to speed and it's just like constantly you can't turn that off so you can turn it off oh okay okay i turned it off okay because i just got annoyed by it yeah it's louder in track mode than like regular mode so you can like dial it up or down but i just want to turn it off and then the other note about the sound is I feel like I could actually hear the mp3 looping because well because it's just a constant drone the entire time it's just a constant drone and if you are at the same pitch for a while you could hear and I could hear that and I was like as soon as I heard that I was like I have to turn this off yeah and I noticed that and as soon as I noticed it I was like let me find how to turn this off because it's really annoying it's unacceptable in 2025 yeah I'm also very curious for who the target demographic for this car is well the argument is i there is it doesn't it misses all of the targets okay yeah because if you're dodging you're trying to make a charger you're trying to sell an ev to them then the target demographic is someone who wants a charger but wants an electric car right away that venn diagram has yeah almost no overlap yeah and you got this huge speaker system on the back so it's it's a muscle car it's loud you're trying to sell a car to people who want a loud muscle car yeah but want an electric car like who is that and they have 80 grand to spend on it i just yeah i didn't really see who that is so here's where i landed okay daily commuter comfortable cruiser it can do that it's very comfortable it's soft it rides well it has a ton of space it's a hatchback so it has a big trunk it also has a front trunk but it's tiny whatever it doesn't matter but like lots of leg room lots of head room lots of visibility it's this huge two-door which is kind of hilarious but whatever like there's tons of space and you ride along in soft mode turn the sound off and it's just it's chill how much is this car this car starts at about 50 50 grand and goes up to like i think the one i tested is 86 000 so 86 000 yeah for a comfy commuter car nice comfortable there are a lot of people who buy those like base chargers base challengers or whatever like that are pretty cheap and don't have all the big like benefits of like a muscle car they just look like a muscle car that you can drive yeah to the grocery store and this one looks like a muscle car yeah it looks good i think it looks really you could fit so many groceries in this car does it have a frunk a tiny frunk i can fit a backpack in the front it's weird because it's an enormous car and the front trunk is so What are they doing with all the space?

15:35So they use the same chassis and same design for the gas and electric charger. Oh. So it's not a ground up EV where they would have all this extra space. Like there's still a tunnel going between the driver and passenger seat. There's nothing in there. Oh. In the gas version there is. Interesting. But in the electric version it just has a tunnel there. Huh. So yeah, there's just a lot of missing space. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. I have two really quick thoughts. one is uh i think supposed to be fun would have been a great title for your that was my alternate title okay that was that would have been really good fun this looks like it's doing well um yeah my second thought is we all ragged on the mustang maki when it first came out because we're like why would you call this mustang you all ragged on hold on hold on you all ragged on it we ragged on the fact that it was a mustang right like they launched it as a mustang ev but it was really like this ford crossover yeah and even though i still think it didn't make much sense seeing this now of like here's the actual muscle car that's an ev and realizing that none of the muscle car people really want an ev yeah maybe that was the better decision i still think it's weird they went with a mustang but okay the maki is great and it's still doing hear me out and maybe maybe muscle car is different from like a different kind of nice car i imagine they may you know that what was the Porsche, the guy that takes the old Porsche bodies and retrofits them into a Sacrillege Motors.

17:02Sacrillege Motors car, yeah. I and many other people would 100 % buy that car. I think that's different. But that's probably not considered a muscle car, right? No. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. The muscle car demographic probably does not have overlap with the EV demographic, but the old school, classic car demographic definitely does. Okay, question for you. what if they had nailed the sound of this car through the speaker instead of hearing the loop and all that and like we heard a charger the other day and you were like see that's what a charger is supposed to sound like like yeah what if they had nailed that part of it like you know on the sigma camera and also on the on the macbook you you didn't know that there was no actual button and that it's just so convincing it's so convincing that until someone tells you you have no idea what if it was it felt and sounded identical sure let me give you that let's say there's a theoretical world where the sound is so incredible that it actually matches the gas car it would still not be good at any of the other things that it was supposed to be good at which is it can't it's not as quick in a straight line as all the other competitive evs that are good at that it's not a lot of range and here's the funny thing about uh those motors so it's a 335 horsepower rear motor and a 335 horsepower front motor if i can get into leads for a second That's a little bit unusual.

18:25Typically, you have a more powerful rear motor because when you accelerate, all of the weight goes backwards and onto the rear axle. So you want a more powerful rear axle. That's your limiting factor. The very powerful front motor almost never gets saturated. So in this car, it's evenly split between the two and you have a 6 ,000 pound car and sticky tires and it actually is so heavy and so weak at the rear axle that it cannot do a standing burnout. It's not capable of it. For those who know chargers, that's the whole thing. Like you want to be able to just do a burnout. That's the rear wheel drive car as they light up the tires, they spin or whatever.

19:03This car is so heavy and so weak at the rear axle that it can't do that. Oh, wow. So it doesn't do the charger thing, even though it makes a cool noise. It doesn't do the road trip thing. It doesn't do the straight line thing. It doesn't do the track thing. So it would still not be a good car, but it would sound great. And that would be a cool accomplishment. and you know i think to some people this car sounds cool but yeah it's a it doesn't make a whole lot of sense dang my opinion can i can i go on a quick rant that i've already gone on like 10 times that uh i this car proves it 30 vote what oh yes 30 of people at south by southwest at our panel south by southwest voted that i had the worst takes on waveform so here's another one baby Now, this also goes back to the Ioniq 5N.

19:54It's like you can make a car that tries to sound like a gas engine and has the rumble and all these things. But I just feel like it'd be so much better to make something that is firmly itself and lives in its own lane and makes a sound that is its own. And the 5N got like close, but I feel like those sounds were like kind of corny, especially the like the backfire sound was so bad. Yeah. I think when they are trying to emulate an existing thing. Yeah. You're going to fail. Yeah. And there's like and there's good examples of companies doing this. Like the OG Tesla backup sound, I thought was like a really brilliantly designed sound.

20:38Sort of like. Yeah. The sort of like soft hum. I thought that was really great. the um the bmw that seven series hybrid that han zimmer did all the sounds for i thought that sounds really great and then there's a like when we were doing the cyber truck video you know i uh both cyber truck videos i had mics all over the motors and that thing like deep inside the car and the sounds we got out of it were like not that interesting right and so we we spruced them up in the video when we made the car sound really cool and no one was like wow ellis like you totally lied to me they were like that sounds really cool and fun and i think that the best example of this and have you i know i brought this up a million times there's a ford concept car from like five years ago called the mach e 1400 it's like the supercharged version and sounds like a banshee it sounds like the coolest car ever and i know it didn't sound like that in person but it's like that's what we should be striving for in my opinion it's something like Like if you want to make a car sound like it rips, just make it sound like it rips.

21:41I will plus one that. I think we're in this weird era still where if you're trying to sell electric cars to people, it's almost everyone's first electric car. And so they need to build things in that are familiar to gas car users. Yeah. And there are a lot of vestigial features that are just just for that person. And I do we we got to get a couple of generations in. Do we? Where someone who's never driven a gas car drives their first car and it's electric and they don't care that it doesn't have a sound. So I will say the Porsche Taycan Turbo GT, I've watched all the reviews of that car. Way less sound deadening in that car.

22:15Rimac Nevera, another one. You just hear the motors. And it's just an electrical motor sound and that's all you need. And it doesn't have to make a fake sound. And that is the sound of an electric car and that's fine. Think about how breathtaking a driving experience would be. And also, yes, auto companies. If you want to hire me, I will make your sounds. Just get on the line. But think about how breathtaking it would be for someone who has experience with performance gasoline cars, right? They're on a mile drag strip, like a long drag strip. They get the car up to full speed. And instead of the car making some loud noise to be like, you're going fast, the car goes dead silent.

22:53Like picture how that would feel as the driver. Like you hear the motors spinning up and getting louder and louder. and then you hit 160, 170, and all of a sudden, like that would be such a unique Sonic experience that would be unique to that car. And I think would really wow people who are gas familiar. I don't know, just call me, pay me. I'll take a cool mill for this and everyone will be talking about it and we'll call it a day. I think that was a great take, Ellis. I watch a lot of car reviews from automotive journalists who drive a lot of gas cars. and the number one word that they use when driving an electric sports car that they say it's missing is emotion and i find that really interesting but like but putting the sound of a gas cart in an electric car is just like putting that meme with the mask on top of the crying face yeah it's like it's not emotion you're stealing it from something else already giving its own characteristics i think gas cars they started up with this technology of an internal combustion engine and it was great and they happened to make noise and so the sports cars would lean in and embrace that noise because it was just a part of the mechanical emotional feeling of like going through driving a car i think electric cars in the future eventually should just lean into the thing that makes them better than gas cars which is they have more torque they have they are quieter like they can do faster acceleration they have all these things that are inherently superior to they warm up quicker yeah they have all these things that are better and they should just lean into that and i get that there's a couple of things like creep or regen or little noises and things that make gas users more comfortable uh or lack of regen i guess i should say but yeah for now almost every new electric car is somebody's first electric car wait and you're so right those are things that could be aurally communicated to a driver why do cars not have a regen sound why can you not hear the traction control adjusting the power of the motor on each wheel and get directional feedback from that?

24:56Like, there's all these things that are unique to electric cars. And these sound designers are just like, nah, bro, make the steering wheel vibrate. That's what people want, baby. Yeah, like when you're doing one pedal driving and you let go of the accelerator and it starts spinning on the regen, it should be like, whoo. There are so many. There's a lot of stuff you could do. And that's the emotion that these, look, I'm not like a gas car guy. I'm not going to call them a mean name but that's the emotion that these people are talking about you know i mean they're talking about the feedback they're getting from the machine yeah there are things in electric car that you should be getting feedback about not on an ipad yeah right that you can get with your ears anyway i'm very upset about this i've been upset about it no you should lean in you should lean into the things that that technology is doing there's this video that got passed around last week called uh why young people like old things yeah and it's this very young kids and he makes some very good points about uh basically it all comes down to your senses and the fact that like when you're just tapping an ipad there's just there's no sort of sensory input into anything that you're doing and that object has replaced all of these things that used multiple different parts of your senses to sort of like give you that experience and so when you're driving an electric car that is taking away a lot of those senses because it doesn't do the rumble it doesn't do like all these like old gas things they should just lean into the things that the car is actually doing to like bring those senses back here's a really specific example we did the driving the model 3 on a track remember a couple years ago yeah when you're driving an electric car on a track you can hear when each tire is like starting to break traction where in a gas car you can feel it but you only hear the engine but in an electric car as you're going around like a cone course on a track, you hear exactly when you start to slide versus just kind of trying to feel it.

26:46And the car knows which tires have traction and how much traction to do. They could build that into the sound engine. Car companies, hire me. Please. I can help you. Software. Software. Yeah. My dad, this is the last thing, and then we'll leave sound, but sound guy, you don't get the opportunity that much to talk about stuff like this. My dad, also a sound guy, when the first wave of electric cars were being sold, him and a bunch of his sound guide friends were getting lunch together and someone asked the table, now that we can make a car sound like literally anything, what should we use as the engine sound and the sound that the group came up with as what all cars could sound like is...

27:27I'm so sorry for everyone who had to hear that. Because picture an entire freeway of like... No, I refuse to picture that. It sounds like a storm of locusts. That could work. well okay let's take a quick break we'll come back we got some more software to talk about we got uh many more things that have popped up in the news so we will be right back which means we should do trivia he didn't even do the way adam is the one that should have waited longer yeah the hesitate becomes the hesitator okay i wanted to ask this question for a little bit but we've had better questions and now uh now i think it's this question's time to shine so guys time to pull at the bad question.

28:08No, this is exactly what he just said. That is not what I was trying to say. It's good question or like fantastic question. And I, okay, whatever, whatever. Digging yourself into a hole. All right, all right, guys. Dig and anyway, continue. I'm going to bury this guy. Dude, if my mic was on when you said that, digging and burying are the opposite. You don't bury for buried treasure, okay? I kind of realized that a little bit later, but I didn't want to bring it back up. No, you shouldn't. Anyway, guys, multiple choice question. Okay. What is the name of Xiaomi's AI assistant? Xiaomi's AI assistant.

28:48And I have four choices for you. The first one. That was optional. The modern name? A, as they call it. A. Zhao AI. Oh. B. Oh, by the way, sorry. All of these, I'm giving the English translation of like the Chinese word. Zhao AI. So Zhao AI. B, Squiggly. C, God King Jun. Jun being Chinese name that means like handsome. God King Handsome. Or. That's my nickname in ice cream. And this is not a joke. SU7. And the assistant is an anthropomorphic version of the Xiaomi EV, the SU7 a la cars, like with eyes and tongue and stuff. That would be amazing. I'm so worried it's that one. It's definitely God King Handsome.

29:34handsome. I want to remember the Chinese word, but I'm probably not going to. So. We'll think about this one. See, I told you it was a good question. It's a good question. We'll have the answers at the end, like usual. We'll be right back. Thank you.

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30:59So just go to shopify.com slash waveform, shopify.com slash waveform. Not all journalism is the same. Take The Guardian. Our coverage has something unique, fierce independence. Nobody owns us or tells us what we can and can't say. So we're free to report the whole picture. We connect what's happening in Washington to the rest of the globe, expose corruption wherever we find it, and give fresh perspective on everything from wellness and soccer to culture, the climate, and more. Read, watch, and listen to The Guardian for free at theguardian.com. From Pushkin Industries, I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and Heavyweight is back.

31:42The new season is bigger than ever. Bigger hopes? I keep waiting for this moment when he says, Mom, I get it. I'm sorry. Bigger dreams. Tom Hanks wants to meet with you. This is a real chance. And bigger heartbreaks. I thought it would be my movie moment. And maybe he would even whisper in my ear, I've always been in love with you. Check out new episodes of Heavyweight on Apple Podcasts.

32:15All right, welcome back. We've got to talk about this alleged upcoming iOS 19 update. Headline, word on the street is it's going to be a major visual overhaul. And if you read into this story, so this is a Bloomberg article, it seems like there's going to be the biggest overhaul since iOS 7 is what they're saying, and it's going to be much inspired by Vision OS. So a lot of that, like when you open up Vision OS, or if you watched a video of Vision OS, very glassy, a lot of transparency. I'm on the fence about it. I'm trying to picture iOS looking like that. And I get that you want it to be consistent and everything, but it's also technically skeuomorphism.

33:00Can I take it a step further? This is not just iOS. This is iPadOS, MacOS, and iOS. Yeah, they said, Mark Gurman said it's the biggest change to Mac since Big Sur, which is in 2020. and then like you said iOS since iOS 7. It would make sense if you are Apple and you're doubling down on Vision OS really is our future and really is something we believe in. So everything's going to look like that. I get that part. I'm just trying to picture, I'm not a designer clearly, I'm trying to picture what that actually looks like. I don't know if you guys have thoughts on how Vision OS looks currently. It's interesting because they just went through a bunch of like, we're adding dark mode now And so you have to like make a dark mode icon.

33:43And so clearly they don't want to do a bunch more work to actually change the look of the icons again. So it's more going to be the UI elements. So the idea of the existing icons like sitting on top of that glassy UI element is kind of interesting. But in the Vision Pro, they have that working already, I guess. So I could see it. I mean, I think people adapt to things faster than people generally think they adapt to things. uh so they adapt to it quickly but they love to complain about adapting to it immediately they complain for like a month and then they get over and i'm one of them i totally understand where they're going yes yes do you guys like the way vision os looks visually yeah like it's got some floating elements outside the windows so there's these glassy windows with uh sort of like a frosted glass type of look so that the whatever's behind them is like frosted out and then there are hovering elements outside of it like the x or the bar to drag and move around the window every icon is a circle also i believe yeah on the home screen um things layer on top of each other a lot so the glass kind of stacks it's it's definitely an appropriate look for ui in a physical space because there's often going to be like surfaces and textures and things like that behind the glass that you still want to be aware of so it makes sense to have that in a physical space but the iphone or the mac never to me felt like it had to do that so i get consistency but i just don't i don't know if i don't know if i can picture it yeah i guess usually these companies want to get you used to the primary interaction mode that like the object that you use the most and then everything sort of percolates from that and it's it's definitely looking very far into the future to say vision os and vision like interaction with the computer is what you need to get used to right now because vision os or vision pro sales are not doing very well yeah and i think it's going to be quite a while before we transition to using these kind of headsets more often yeah mark german said that the the push is like part of them trying to simplify how users use their devices um so i guess like if you think about it vision os probably is the simplest way to use something because you have less intuitive controls they needed to make it as simple as possible i agree with you though moving everything to be into their less least popular least like in the hands of people product feels weird but i guess they had to spend so much time creating the ui and i think it's a little further than just you know the icons there are a lot of like circular glassy were very rounded edges on a lot of different things inside of like the menu systems and playing songs and settings and messages and everything.

36:28So maybe it's just slightly going a little more towards that. They also might think that if they can get users used to the UI right now on a thing that they use all the time, when they eventually buy some sort of Vision OS type device, whatever that ends up being, it'll be more naturally intuitive to them because the UIs look the same. It's kind of like how the Apple Watch uses very similar icons to like the iPhone and the menus are similar. And it's got something like design and style, but it's still like intuitive because you know how to use the iPhone. Yeah, I think it's also kind of interesting though, is the claim to this, and obviously this is a rumor, but Gurman's pretty spot on a lot of the time.

37:13Trying to make everything so similar when just at one of the questions you answered at the South by show was somebody asking if touchscreens would go on Macs and like how there's a very distinct difference between how the iPad and the Mac work. So we're trying to make things more similar, but Apple also needs to make things not too similar so they don't cannibalize each other's products. Where do we draw the line? Are we just talking UI here? It's funny doing that. How are they not going to cannibalize other things? Yeah, so Vision OS is still going to have to be their only, I'm doing air quotes for audio listeners, spatial operating system.