Framework Laptops and a Robot Cleaner?

14:38Marques Brownlee:For an iPad?

14:39David Imel:Screw it. It's cheaper than buying it.

14:41Marques Brownlee:yeah I think I think that I think this is a way for people who were maybe going to try to stretch for an iPad to just get the Mac because it's cheaper I mean all Apple's all about getting the Mac into as many hands as pop I mean all their stuff but getting a Mac into young people's hands yeah the way the Neo is yeah I think this gets it into way more students hands Adam it's 288 dollars for the for 24 month uh lease that's two years right yeah 12 a month you can't only do it for one semester you have to lease it for 24 or 36 months oh okay so it needs to be two years it's 12 a month and the minimum is two years so 288 dollars to lease the i'd rather just buy ipad air but if you can't there it is 12 look i could kind of see this for the mac i could kind of see this for a mac but for any other device really just like buy a much older thing because computers are expensive basically no matter what.

15:36So I kind of understand it for a laptop. But for a phone you can buy a three-year-old iPhone and it's still going to be really good. It's still going to have software support for another four years. You can buy that for$300 or less. The Mac to me is the only thing that really makes sense.

15:52Marques Brownlee:The 14-inch MacBook Pro, which is a very expensive computer, becomes $39 a month for the 36-month lease. $39 a month. That's very accessible.

16:02David Imel:This is the most American thing possible. don't worry it's only that's like when car salesmen are like what are you looking to get out of here at oh like 25 ,000 no no no like monthly payment that doesn't seem shady like cars

16:15Marques Brownlee:living spaces is always the debate is buy versus lease or rent or whatever you want to call it so yeah this is America it's through Klarna I recommend not doing this but if you have to I understand unless you're getting a cocktail Klarna your cocktails Oh, yeah, true, true, true. Finally paid off my mojito. 70 cents a month. Speaking of computers, Marquez, you've been reviewing the framework. Speaking of computers, yeah. So video viewers have seen this already, but I have the framework laptop 13 Pro in front of me. I reviewed it. I did the video. You guys can check that out. I just figured I would highlight that it's pretty great.

16:55Marques Brownlee:Can I see it? Yeah, a lot of what people have been talking about is the new build quality and the new display because those are the biggest new upgrades for what this is. But Framework's been around for a while now, and they are very committed to this upgradable slash modular idea. And the motherboard in this computer can be purchased for an older Framework 13, like a 2021 five-year-old Framework 13. And that will give it the faster I.O., the faster SSD speeds, faster RAM, and all that stuff. So they are, if you, basically my conclusion for the review is, I mean, this is still kind of an expensive computer.

17:31Marques Brownlee:$1 ,600 up to like over$3 ,000. Yeah, for the Macs. So my conclusion was the day that you buy it is the day that it will feel the least worth it. Right. Day zero, it feels the least worth it. But the longer you have it, the more it can feel like it is worth it. Because you can upgrade it. Because you can upgrade it. So like a MacBook Pro for the same price is a better computer, I would say is pretty agreeable. But in two years, when the MacBook Pro is starting to get old or maybe you wish you had more RAM or you wanted to change from a USB-C port to an HDMI port, whatever, you can actually do that on this computer or maybe you break part of it or spill it on part of it and you want to just replace this little piece of it.

18:09Marques Brownlee:That is what makes it feel worth it and that's why Framework exists. So this is pretty special for just that ability and it's pretty solid. I think that makes sense. We talk a lot about the integrated chips on the MacBooks and if you decided you wanted more RAM because you wanted to run a local LM model or something. You just can't do that with these computers. You can't upgrade them at all.

18:31David Imel:I keep getting a pop-up that says I can. Oh. Can you just download more RAM? Yeah, it's like the model you buy, and these are not cheap computers especially anymore either after Apple raised their prices. You can't just get more RAM on this thing. So it's pretty cool if you're able to actually just upgrade the RAM in your laptop. I think that's great. It feels great. Build quality is fantastic. Feels really good. I actually love the clear bezel around it and getting to see some of the internals. Whatever the auto brightness on there is, it's weird. It's really staggering and it's very active, not in a good way, but orange buttons.

19:10David Imel:Typing experience felt really nice.

19:13Marques Brownlee:It's 80 % of a MacBook Pro in a lot of ways and way more modular, obviously. That's what I kept saying in the video. And you're running Linux on it. And it's Linux, yeah. And I have Firefox today. Ubuntu Firefox. You think you'd be happy about that? Look at you.

19:26David Imel:We did it, boys. Yeah. That's it. Never ask again. Firefox invited me to a soccer game, and I didn't go. Yeah. Hey, Firefox. Who's your real pal here? Who's been using you for years? Who? Hey. Okay. But they're trying to court me because I'm the browser guy. No, trust me. They should be courting David. Yeah. He's the right person to court. I'm just saying. You could have just sent me an email, and then if I said yes, I'd been like, oh, sorry. We're booked up. Yeah. They're like, Andrew, we already got that. They follow me on Instagram. What do they need to do for you? You already use it. Yeah.

19:56They don't need a gangsta user. Yeah, by the way, I have three browsers on my dock right now. That's insane. Because ARK has been crashing a lot. Never saw that coming. No way. On the Golden Gate beta. Not sub-settings. On the Golden Gate beta. Dia is getting close to ARK. They are just kind of turning Dia into ARK. They're adding almost all the same features. It's like ColorOS versus OS.

20:20Marques Brownlee:I need them to speed that up.

20:21David Imel:But at some point, it's like, hey, your new product is almost as good as your old product that you killed. Dude, don't even get me started. Dumbest company alive. Yeah, there's still some things that Arc does way better that they haven't added yet. Like they have tabs that are pinned tabs, but they're not in your like little tab group bar at the top. They don't have that in India. There's just, yeah, there's things that they need to upgrade. But I've been trying some other browsers. Helium browser is actually pretty good. it's sort of an ARK clone the developer is very active and very like they're all over the internet you can talk to them and it looks really similar to ARK but it does a few things a little bit differently it still doesn't have like tab pinning separate from the like pinned taskbar thing at the top and you can't change the size of it and it's funny how many small things annoy me about being 90 % what ARK does but not quite there in every browser and I keep going back to making Arc my default and then it keeps crashing over and over again.

21:25It just crashes. That's a bummer. Just use Chrome. You have a ton of RAM. Why not use it? I do not have that much RAM and Chrome would take it all. Yeah, so Helium's getting there. I'm having a good time. It's very funny when I tweet about browsers now. People like, I swear to God, there are like 25 different browser projects that everyone's like, just use this, just use this. It's like, just use WhatsApp. except if there were 25 messaging apps that everybody used.

21:51Marques Brownlee:Which is like, it's annoying, but it's kind of nice. It's kind of nice that there's a bunch of, it's actually a bunch of competing, viable, like all pushing to make each other better, adding interesting features here and there. Like it's kind of interesting. It's interesting. Yeah, I'm liking it.

22:05David Imel:Marques, I had a question for you about using this laptop. Yeah. It's running Ubuntu, right? Yep. Is that how you pronounce it? I don't know. I'm just actually curious about how you pronounce it. Ubuntu. Yeah. Ubuntu. when it came in the box

22:18Marques Brownlee:did it already have it installed? yeah so this is a pre-built so you can choose between a DIY version of the framework or a pre-built version so this is one of the pre-built configurations you can buy and you can choose Linux out the box and it came with that installed yeah so you can put any other Linux distro on this as well you can that's what I wanted to know or Windows if you really want I guess if you want to play games it's pronounced Ubuntu Well, we knew that. I didn't. Isn't that what I said? I think I said Ubuntu in the video. Abuna. It's one of those words that I don't say out loud very often.

22:55Marques Brownlee:I've typed it many times, but Ubuntu. Same. It's one of those words that I'm like, I don't think I've ever said it out loud, and now I'm too scared to. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I got to live by it now. Ubuntu. Yeah. Sorry. The framework parts that you can buy indoors are dope.

23:08David Imel:The clear orange is so good. Yeah.

23:10Marques Brownlee:There's a lot of people talking about this bezel. Like, oh, they don't like the clear bezel. You can just get a black bezel. You can also get a different colored bezel if you want. So, yeah. Yeah, this thing looks sick.

23:21David Imel:And the fact that it runs Linux makes it actually a viable option. Yeah, that's nice. I just saw something really quick that Volvo is discontinuing LiDAR sensors on their cars. This seems to be because they're discontinuing their relationship with Luminar Technologies, the company that makes them. It's a little confusing because they're claiming the company's products are that they're trying to limit the supply chain risk exposure as a direct result of luminar's failure to meet its contractual obligations so i can't tell how much of this is like luminar is having some issues therefore their supplier of lidar therefore let's just ditch it altogether which feels like kind of a cop-out from volvo in itself um but they're claiming that the company's product can deliver a high level of safety and driver support enabled by the car's powerful core computer coupled with their advanced sensor set with or without a lidar which i don't know i hate this let's keep taking lidar out of let's keep taking more sensors to make people safe out of cars but um yeah the

24:19Marques Brownlee:statement is kind of like a well we couldn't get lidar in there but we're gonna try to keep making

24:23David Imel:our self-driving software good yeah but also so then the kind of funny part is they're looking to compensate customers who already purchased the car with the lidar in it because there still are some sorry this is for the ex90 and es90 the ones with those like the box on the top yeah almost looks like a hood scoop on the top for the lidar system um they're saying that the lidar unit is approximately 1500 to the msrp price and they're sorry these are their three options instead of just here's 1500 back you can either have a complimentary three-year subscription to serious xm and a 500 credit towards volvo cars app the fact that they keep using complimentary is hilarious because you've paid the money already.

25:06David Imel:I don't think this is complimentary. Two-year complimentary Volvo protection plan or two-year 24 ,000 mile aisle complimentary Volvo car select package that covers some of the replacement parts like brakes, windshield wipers. Like typical, yeah.

25:21Marques Brownlee:It's a meal voucher for an airline missing your flight.

25:23David Imel:This is a pretty rough meal voucher. So that sucks. And I hate that we're taking more safety measures out of cars. wait is it$500 credit to the Volvo Cars app I don't know well no no it's three year subscription to Sirius XM and the 500 that's in the same one sure but what

25:43Marques Brownlee:what's the Volvo Cars app

25:44David Imel:my guess is Volvo Cars app is like the thing that lets you remote like right now no no no I get it so like what do you spend money on well yeah yeah so like my Subaru right now has an app and it's essentially a subscription service for doing remote start a couple different It's a subscription service? It's the worst. You usually get them for free for like a couple years and then you have to pay the subscription. And it's great because they hook you on that and you've heated your car up, especially with kids now. Heating and cooling the car is so important that I pay a stupid amount of money, which is, in that sense, any amount of money is stupid.

26:19David Imel:Yeah. Because it's all there. It's literally just... The app is horrible. All it can do is be like, turn the heat on, turn the air on, honk the lights or like unlock the doors. But yeah, stupid. So my guess is$500 towards some stupid stuff like that. Towards a subscription. Yeah, towards whatever the subscription would be. Wow. That is crazy. Capitalism. Yeah. Stupid.

26:44Marques Brownlee:We just got finished talking about how Apple is going to let you rent essentially your devices. Yeah. It's a theme. It's a theme.

26:52David Imel:Do we think these cars are going to get marked down or are they just going to come with the They might get marked down by Here's Sirius XM. $1 ,000. Everyone's dying for Sirius XM, by the way.

27:03Marques Brownlee:Sirius XM is one of those things I've literally never used in my life, but every single car reviewer always seems to mention, not even the reviewers, every car company always seems to mention that, oh, and this car has Sirius XM. As if, it's like, and this is maybe I should care more, but it's like Dolby Atmos. When I hear a speaker system in a laptop or a phone has Dolby Atmos, I literally do not care. It doesn't mean a single thing to me. This framework laptop has Dolby Atmos. These speakers suck. so I'm not I don't care that it has SiriusXM they always talk about it it always gets thrown in like it's a very important thing but I don't care but it's a it's a subscription so

27:38David Imel:SiriusXM is more annoying because so many cars they're in they put it as like the default media thing when you turn your car on and then when you don't pay for it it's just like SiriusXM it's just like an ad that runs on your car if you leave it at that

27:52Marques Brownlee:it's I'm never using it

27:53David Imel:it's awful anyway yeah yeah

27:56Marques Brownlee:so maybe they'll make it 1500 bucks less for the car who knows they're still gonna try to make they will work no shot same price that's crazy by the way the ex 90 is still a great car I just if you it's one of those like undelivered promise things where if you paid extra to have all this software work and it still doesn't that's the bummer but the rest of the car is pretty

28:14David Imel:good I think that's why I'm even more mad about it it's like I kind of like I'm thinking of an R2 eventually but the Volvos were kind of sick this pretty nice speakers aren't you didn't I thought you ordered not to do that don't I have a reservation for it. I think it comes in in January, but I probably won't buy it. No. I'll probably run my Forrester under the ground first.

28:33Marques Brownlee:Is it the EX90 Dolby Atmos? I have no idea. I think it is. But the speakers in that car are excellent. I'm almost positive it is. Might as well be. I went to a specific, some Volvo had Dolby Atmos, and I feel like it has to be that one. I'm on the Volvo app website. One of the features that they list very proudly just says Google Maps.

28:56David Imel:that's actually why i actually now that i think about it that's why i like volvo has android automotive so it has like android auto as its default system which i think is actually a huge selling point because rivian you can't use but when you click on learn more it explains use google maps built in instead of on your car's center display meaning use it on your phone but

29:19Marques Brownlee:inside the volvo app instead of the google maps app it's yeah it's like kind of how you can like Like in the Tesla app, you can send a destination to the car's GPS. I don't know why you wouldn't want to just type it in a car, but allegedly you can sometimes put in a destination before getting into the car so that when you get into the car, it's already telling you where to go. Right, right, right. I would take$500 worth of that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a thing that people do.

29:48David Imel:Random question. Yeah. The Slate truck. Does it have these like software things like remote start?

29:55Marques Brownlee:Have they mentioned any of this? When you started with does it have, I was just going to say no right from the start. Does it have remote start? I don't think so. Or like turn on AC or something. So I didn't get told about any sort of app for the slate truck. That's what I was wondering. So I imagine there is no remote connectivity for it. I would be surprised if there is much more than any sort of basic like heat it up, turn it on type thing.

30:18David Imel:And the Slate truck would be fine charging for it because their entire premise is anything extra is paid for it. I hate these cars that are like, this is just, it's here already. We have the app. You even get it for free. Now pay me. Especially when mine went dark in like January. It was like zero degrees outside. And it's like, I know you want to warm that car up. That's crazy. That was just because of when I bought the car was in January. so it happened to be three years but it was very unbelievably into consumer I hate that okay someone needs to tell me about this PlayStation Blackout situation I'll go pretty quick on this okay remember we talked about Sony killing all physical game discs yeah so there's a little protest planned out for people to go dark essentially on PlayStation to protest this they're saying do not log in play games or make any purchases from August 23rd to August 30th to help get the point across the pessimist in me is like I'm so happy everyone is doing this and this is terrible but Sony if Sony made this decision already I unfortunately don't think they're going to change it at all I don't

31:28Marques Brownlee:if you don't give them money they'll hear for one week and then we'll start giving them money again you know how much money they'll lose in a week you know how much money they'll make back the next week when you go buy a bunch

31:40David Imel:of stuff I think if they lost all of their money in a week they would probably be making it back on the margins of not printing all the games discs that they're going to.

31:48Marques Brownlee:Yeah. I don't think it's that expensive. I agree with hit them where it hurts in the wallet. Yes. And obviously making a statement with a whole bunch of people joining us is a good idea and makes a statement to the company who has for sure heard the message by now. Yeah. But yeah, I agree. I don't think it's going to. How much money do they even make in a week? Can't be that much. From buying games on the PlayStation store? Yeah, but each game is like 80 bucks now. Yeah. I mean I'm sure it's a lot they're gonna buy the game they're just deferring they're gonna buy the game anyway we'll see maybe people will forget or you'll have 51 weeks of revenue this year instead of 52 no I think what's gonna happen is that one week will go down by 1 % and the next week will go up by 2 % exactly yeah

32:32David Imel:I mean I can't I mean or I should say I am doing it because I don't own a Playstation yeah I will

32:38Marques Brownlee:I will participate in this blackout you know what so am I

32:40David Imel:I do think if you feel really strongly about this you should do it I think unfortunately there's going to be so many other people that are never going to see this that are just kids playing PlayStation and buying V-Bucks and never see it. It should be August 23rd to September 23rd. Make it a month and then they'll listen. The reason I also brought this up is because we also then just had an Xbox outage where like for a whole day, I think, there were tons of users who were not able to log in, see their game library or play any games in their game library. which is just more proof that this digital age of all of this is like you don't really own these games they can kind of do whatever with it i've also like i've seen a lot of people in like africa who are like our internet is so bad but i have game discs and i am able to play games and it's terrible and so you know if everything is like online only come on yeah it's terrible it's just it is really or there are there are other countries and i'm sure there's even some scenarios in our country where the way you purchase internet is bandwidth based yeah so like downloading the game could kill your bandwidth for like a month i remember people used to send us videos of being like i love waveform i love mkbhd but i watch everything in 480p because i only have so much bandwidth for the month that's the only way i can watch this stuff um so metered stuff is crazy i also brought it up because i recently discovered this youtube channel about it's called retro jake's video games and it's just a store that like buys sells and trades old video games and it's so much fun to watch people get like super amped because they found like simpsons wrestling on the playstation and like seeing all these people trading in and like buying old games for their childhood or parents buying kids their a nintendo wii because they never got to experience wii sports is like everyone should experience yeah like watching that in the sense of like wow every game from now until whatever my grandkids will never play because there will be zero evidence of the game ever existing sucks.

34:43I was only able to convince my mom to allow me to use my own money to purchase a Wii because Wii Fit came out and I told her that it would make me exercise. It did not make me exercise. Mom I'm gonna get buffed. I just played Wii music and on Wii music you literally just hit the buttons a couple times and you're playing clarinet. It's not, I mean, the cool thing was if you use the Wii Fit like pad thing, you could play the drum kit. Because you could use both sides as like the kick drum and the hi-hat. It was actually pretty sick. I liked it. The Wii was legendary. So legendary. After my grandpa died, I just played what was it?

35:26Zelda Twilight Princess. all because he knows my age. It had just come out and literally for like a week and a half when I was staying with my grandma I just played the entire game like all day every day and it allowed me to zone out. It was the best thing ever.

35:45Marques Brownlee:I had a friend with a Wii. I didn't have any video games growing up but we would go over to his house and be like oh we're going to go like play basketball or whatever and then we would just go play like Wii golf and Wii bowling like all the other games because it was too much fun. Instead of basketball. Yeah. Sorry, Mom. Sorry, Mom.

36:01David Imel:And split screen. Yeah, it was great. Split screen. Halo.

36:05Marques Brownlee:I'm a friend. Golden eye. Halo 2.

36:07David Imel:Halo. We played so much Halo. I used to bring my TV to my friend's house and we would have multiple people bring TVs and we'd all be in different rooms so you couldn't screen peek. Wait, like, like, like, yes, I kid you not. Like I would be holding both of them and I'd just be like, my mom would drop me off. I'd be like, knock, knock, knock at my friend's door. and I'd just walk in with this TV and my Xbox and set it up in a room and we would play Halo all day. Now you just log into a cloud server. Old. Nah, kids these days have no idea. Now you just get told that you can't log into a cloud server.

36:39Sorry. Yeah, I saw this meme where it was like 10 years of games like growing up as a kid and it was like Ocarina of Time and then it was this game and then it was this game. Totally different games like Final Fantasy and all this stuff. And then it was like 10 years of games now and it's just Fortnite, Fortnite, Fortnite just in a row. Oh my god. Until November where GTA 6 comes out. Allegedly. Allegedly. Alright, I think we need to take it to trivia and then our scheduled outbreak.

37:13Guys, what came first? Sharks. 76ers. Before trees. Me. Wow.

37:20Marques Brownlee:You guys really do listen. Sharks came before fire. That's not that at all. Did you know that? You know lightning hit things and said on fire? I learned this on Reddit, so asterisk. But it was like, what are some facts that are real but seem not true? Sharks have been in the oceans since before there was enough oxygen in the atmosphere for actual fire. Oh, really? That's just what I read. It might not be true. Anyway. What about alligators? They're also pretty old, yeah. I feel like they look more like dinosaurs than sharks do. Yeah, birds are good.

37:56David Imel:I vote no. Guys, I've got to write a new trivia question. You've already said all the answers.

38:01Marques Brownlee:No. What came first? The PlayStation 2's online service or Xbox Live? PlayStation 2 had an online service? It did. That's crazy. And you know what? I will give you one point. This might put too many points on the table. People said they don't like that. It's the very beginning of the season.

38:22David Imel:I don't think they made one point. I think it was when I got like 78 points. Well, there are six titles that shipped at launch with online capabilities with the PlayStation 2. And if you can name any of them, I'll give you a point. Shipped with all of them.

38:37Marques Brownlee:Like I said, I didn't grow up with video games, so this one's on you guys. Yeah. I want to shout out really quickly, too, though, that half of our normal viewers watched the trivia extravaganza, which is actually pretty good. We got like... Yeah, thank you. For a bonus episode. It currently has 115 ,000 views. It's chaotic.

38:52David Imel:You should go watch it. Actually, the game we're playing later is a game we played on that. So if you like the game at the end of this episode, then you can go watch Trivia because we do more of it.

39:00Marques Brownlee:Nice. Good call out. All right. We'll take a quick break. Answers for Trivia will be at the end, like usual. We'll be right back.

39:14Marques Brownlee:Support for the show comes from Framer. Framer is a complete website platform, not just a builder, so teams can launch and keep improving their sites in one place. Thousands of businesses from early stage startups to Fortune 500s are choosing to build their websites in Framer, where changes take minutes instead of days. Framer is the pro site builder for creators, teams, and businesses that just want a professional site and care enough to get every detail right. Agents solve the gap between AI-generated ideas and production-ready website work. The agent works in the same space where the real site is designed and managed and reviewed and published.

39:49Marques Brownlee:It lands on the canvas, stays editable, and can be published when the team is ready. Agents in Framer work alongside teams to streamline collaboration on the same canvas, build custom code components, create and manage CMS content, optimize SEO settings, and ship everything all in one place. Learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer specialist or get started building for free today at framer.com slash wave for 30 % off a Framer Pro annual plan. So that's framer.com slash wave for 30 % off. Framer.com slash wave. Rules and restrictions may apply. This episode is brought to you by Facebook.

40:25So you were scrolling on Marketplace, and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew, well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for.

40:46David Imel:From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. Hey Chicago, class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look. Try it, style it, make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up. It shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Croc store today. All right, welcome back to Waveform episode 365. We're the better 365 over Microsoft 365. We're your hosts. Oh, it is 365. I'm a free trial. You're the free trial?

41:33Yeah. I'm the security key that you could find easily online. I'm the one week of AOL on a CD that you got in the middle. Yo, I'm Edge. The Edge, like the wrestler. All right. He's the guitar player in U2. Oh. Does sound like a wrestler. Does sound like a wrestler. Okay, we're talking about a robot cleaning service, Andrew. What the hell is going on here?

41:55Marques Brownlee:Okay, I can show you. Yeah, Mark doesn't want to talk. Every once in a while I go on Twitter and just scroll for a little bit. Oof. And so I don't know if you remember this. A couple months ago, maybe it was a couple years ago, I did a video about that Neo robot. Yeah. Remember that Neo robot? That was like eight months ago. This is going to be a humanoid five foot six robot that can go into your home and perform tasks and clean stuff for you. Yeah. And I made a video about how they have to advertise it and try to get people to buy it as if it's real and exists and can do that now. But it clearly cannot do that because it doesn't have any of the data and the training to go in and clean your house and do this stuff.

42:32Marques Brownlee:So they have this weird crossroads that they're at where they need to convince people to be early adopters so that they can get a bunch of training data so that they get more people to buy it so that they can actually do what it's advertised. Okay. So I'm on Twitter, and I scroll, and I see there's this tweet of a robot. And it says, today we're launching Tau's humanoid cleaning service in San Francisco for$30 an hour. Access is initially invite-only as we scale operations. if you don't have an invite yet, join it at the wait list here. All footage is shown at 1x speed. Each humanoid is jointly controlled by a human operator and AI.

43:09Marques Brownlee:And then there's a video of a little humanoid-shaped robot getting out of the backseat of a minivan and walking away with a cleaning bag as if he's going to go do some job somewhere.

43:19David Imel:Can I describe? I thought carefully how to describe it for our...

43:23Marques Brownlee:Please describe this little humanoid robot.

43:24David Imel:Okay, this is a four-and-a-half-foot drunk man in the baggiest clothes possible, claws for hands and its head can only resemble that of a router and frog hybrid. Also, the cleaning supply bag that it picks up only has one microfiber cloth hanging off the side pouch. Nothing else is in that bag that it's taking.

43:44Marques Brownlee:It's wearing shoes. It's wearing my shoes. It's wearing my new balancer.

43:47David Imel:It's wearing a jacket. Okay. Wait, I have one more question about this. Sorry. It's getting out of a minivan, which is kind of impressive. It's supposed to be like it got chopped off, right? Classic cleaning service, yeah. Does it have to wear a seatbelt? Um, does it have to legally? No. Because it's a thing. So this is the thing. I think as it not being a person, it doesn't have to, but therefore still turns into an extreme safety hazard in a crash because it's not secured. But then also, if it has its seatbelt on, zero chance claw hands is getting out of the seatbelt.

44:18Marques Brownlee:Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Big claw hands. So huge red flag off the first video. So yeah. So the idea, it turns out, and David, I know you haven't seen this yet, so I'd love for you to click the website. Oh no. The idea is that this is a cleaning service offered at a discounted rate so that they can literally just start gathering training data. They are four people who are totally cool with all these robots being fully remote operated right from the beginning. And you are agreeing to have a person go into your home through this robot and just clean stuff for you and do services for you. So if you scroll down on this website a little bit, what you will see is videos of this little freaky humanoid robot doing chores in a kind of a smooth-ish looking manner.

45:00Marques Brownlee:Sometimes. It's like me after leg day, basically. Yeah. It's kind of shaking a little bit.

45:05David Imel:It's 24 frames per second.

45:06Marques Brownlee:But we are all now under the complete understanding that this is a person remote operating this and they are going to wipe down counters and clean up and vacuum and empty the trash and move stuff from off the middle of the floor to clean your house and you'll pay for it and it'll be cheaper than a person would be because you're letting someone in your house get that training data for the robot for its sweet, sweet data. Yeah. Yeah.

45:30David Imel:So it also is. It's watching it do all of its chores is it looks insanely focused because you can tell whoever is teleoperating. This is having a very hard time trying to see what's going on and control it. It's like wiping the table and its head is just cocked down like perfect 90 degrees. Yeah. Locked in just wiping like trying to spray the spray bottle really, really bad. Spray bottle is my favorite video. Yeah, it's so slow. Can you describe the scene? So there's a four and a half foot man in a costume with a router, Netgear router as his head. And he's pinching this like spray bottle with his right claw at the bottom.

46:12And he's tilting it. And the left claw is trying really, really hard to spray. And he's kind of shaking a little bit. And he finally gets a couple spritzes off.

46:21David Imel:On a counter that is filled with junk. There's like hot lids, milk cartons. There's a portafilter. there's like a blender there's milk for some reason on like all of this that's true just spraying it on the portafilter which you wouldn't want to have in your coffee but that's interesting um yeah this is not that different from the neo thing because the neo thing also they were like we are having watching the video they would be so mad if you well because the neo the last neo announcement was like we've invented the most advanced cybertronic hand ever invented with 10 million moving parts and a pulley system.

46:58And then this little guy's like, well, I'm just saying it's the same thing where like they had people that were teleoperating these things with like VR headsets and they're basically doing it at a discounted rate in order to train the AI what it is like to clean a house.

47:15Marques Brownlee:Yeah. Uh, and it's, it seems the same.

47:17David Imel:If I'm giving Tao credit, they're very upfront with the fact that it's teleoperated and this is training. and so like I will give them full credit there. Neo is, they said it, but they were not upfront about it. This is like the CEO's tweet in the tweet says teleoperated. Yeah. These are people. So there are apparently three different cleaner robots with different colored heads that are specialized at different tasks. There's Chelsea. Just for the record, makes no sense to me. Well, I think that they're going off like the agent model

47:48Marques Brownlee:where they train it to do very specific things which can be loaded onto the robot. Yeah. And the robots are all the same. Yeah, they should all be able to do everything. Unless they have like different claws or something. Anyway, there's Chelsea, there's Elon, which has got to be tongue in cheek. And there's Tony. Yeah, this is weird. I got to say.

48:13David Imel:They have like specialties. Chelsea does sinks, counters, mirrors, and tile. Elon can remember where your things belong and put them back rather than tidying them into a pile. Don't know what that means. And Tony deep cleans grout, baseboard, windows. I guess Tony's better at getting down low. I don't know. I mean, they're all four and a half feet tall. Yeah, they're all pretty low. Yeah. What about putting my stuff away in the higher cabinets? They're all too short for that.

48:41Marques Brownlee:Yeah. This is so, okay. The one thing that keeps coming back to me is this video of it trying to do the spray bottle, right? Yeah. Okay. So the idea, this is funny because it's kind of backwards from what you'd expect. The Neo, as you described, Ellis, has these really advanced, like it has fingers because it's trying to be a human hand because the idea of a humanoid robot is we've built the world around a human shape. So if you can make a humanoid robot, it can do all the things a human can do. So a spray bottle, you have to have like fingers that are like dexterous enough to like grab the bottle by the neck, but then also the trigger to like point it and spray.

49:16Marques Brownlee:but this robot just has claws. Just claws. So it can't do the dexterous grab and spray and point thing so it has to hold the bottle with one claw and squeeze it with the other claw and aim it by tilting it which is, it's like why are you trying to make it human shaped at all? Just make it good at all the cleaning stuff and forget the human shaped. Why doesn't it just have a hose that runs down

49:40David Imel:its arm and cleaning solution backpack? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like, why is it? Okay, that's what you would get from a cleaning service. I don't think the Neo hands could, if you think about squeezing a spray bottle with one hand, like, that's an easy task to us humans. But, like, I think that would be really hard to be, like, pinching it with enough pressure so that it's not spraying, aiming it, and then squeezing it. And, like, I don't think Neo could pull that off.

50:05Marques Brownlee:I was being generous with the Neo. I think it's just, like, the idea is it's trying to be as human as possible so that it can eventually be good enough to do the human stuff. this one it physically does not have human hands and i guess it's a little more rudimentary of a robot so it's like if you're not the only thing human about it is that it's bipedal and standing upright it's like balancing shaking on two legs trying to spray the counter just make a robot that's five feet tall with a hose on it that just sprays the counter but you know this is not about that this is about being human shaped yeah here we are well this is like the 12th robot like this that we've seen in the last year and i don't know if any of them are going to come to fruition However, I'm not sure any of them can come to fruition now because just last night, the U.S.

50:45government has banned robots made outside of the U.S., including robot vacuums. Any robots that are over 4.4 pounds, for robot vacuums, it includes their charger. So that's funny. So a lot of those chargers will probably make it over 4.4 pounds. Yeah. So they issued a new ban on advanced robotic devices and power inverters from foreign countries. the bin will include humanoid and quadruped robots as well as robot vacuums they define this type of robot as a machine that is capable of locomotion obstacle avoidance navigation or movement on the ground comes with the sensor that perceives the surrounding environment and has a chip for network connectivity it must also weigh more than 4.4 pounds including the docking station if it has one it's basically everyone every single robot that we've seen in the last year now apparently needs to be made in the United States.

51:37None of that will happen.

51:38Marques Brownlee:This seems, I don't know, pretty ham-fisted. Do you think this is just the current administration doing this type of stuff? Or is this like a larger concern? Most of it with the drones, with the... Yeah, DJI. Like we talked about the drones before. So they banned a bunch of Chinese companies making drones, including the most popular ones like DJI. And then they would spin off. I was going to say, we didn't even talk about that, but DJI spun up a bunch of fake companies to try to like, like hide in the U S and they banned those as well. So, yeah. So now they're adding all these robots and robot vacuums to that list.

52:12Marques Brownlee:Yeah. Cool. Yeah. So now we have to only get the American made is Dyson. They're Swedish, right? I don't feel like we have any American made ones here. Probably not. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, my, my, my, my, my AC is American air, but I'm pretty sure it's not made in America. Um, Hoover.

52:30David Imel:Is that still a thing? Hoover? I don't know. Is Hoover American? OREC. Yeah. In the US ban documentation, they did mention, do you remember when we talked about that DJI robot vacuum that was super easily hacked and people were able to see the 3D maps of everyone's homes that the robot vacuum created? That would be the concern.

52:54Marques Brownlee:Yeah. Yeah. So The Verge had put out an article about how simple that was to hack and how like the data you could collect on it. They specifically mention this in the ban document for this reason.

53:06David Imel:All right. I think it's fair. I mean, that's a good example of why this is bad. But it is crazy how much money robot vacuum companies spend on US tech YouTubers as sponsors. Oh, yeah. And I feel like all of these are just going to vanish now.

53:22Marques Brownlee:Yeah, there's many, many, many companies who do very, very similar products. Yeah. They all are like you've probably seen like if you're picturing a what's the most common one? Roborock or iRobot. iRobot. Roomba. Roomba, yeah. When I say the word Roomba, you're picturing a shape of a robot vacuuming your head that is made by 25 different companies who all have advertised on your YouTube page at some point. So all of them not being from the U.S. means that probably won't happen. It's very similar to the just router ban of all routers made outside of the U.S., which was all of them. And so then they had to give like permission to like ASRock and a couple of other random router companies.

54:02I imagine that's what's going to happen here where they will give exemptions to very, very popular robotic vacuum companies. But as to what it does to all of these humanoid robots, I feel like. These are all American companies though that I'm seeing. Yeah, but they have to be made in the United States. They can't be assembled outside the US. Interesting. So they might be able to do some weird workaround where the parts are just shipped to the US and they're assembled there. But I also don't see that scaling. Who knows? I think that a lot of these companies will probably just keep trudging on because none of these like humanoid robots are going to be ready within the next two years.

54:37And this administration is only lasting another couple of years. So, you know, they'll be able to do things later. Probably.

54:43David Imel:The docking station is weird. My first thought would be like, well, if you sell it without the docking station. That's true. They could sell it without the docking station. But then if it needs the docking station, yeah, I don't know. They could sell it separately as like a bundle deal. Oh, no, but it...

54:56Marques Brownlee:Maybe.

54:57David Imel:Yeah, you still need it because that's where it empties the vacuuming stuff. Depends on the robots.

55:02Marques Brownlee:Some of them do that. Some of them don't. Really? Some of them have like a super, super basic dock that's like pretty light because it doesn't do anything. It's just like an inductive charger kind of situation. Basically, yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Well, we'll see what happens with that. That just happened last night. So I'm sure that we'll get some press releases from these companies. If anybody in San Francisco actually pays for this cleaning service, please send me videos of it crashing around and doing things in your house. I would love to see this. I will say I am surprised at how well this robot seems to be walking around and stuff when it jumps out of the van.

55:32Marques Brownlee:Yeah, that's the most impressive video. Is it getting out of the seat, jumping out of the van, and walking out looking like an actual four-foot human? Don't know how well it cleans, but that was cool.

55:44David Imel:If you want a good time, read the terms of service. There's some great stuff. We're in the same New Balance as me. okay an open ai agent broke out of its sandbox and hacked hugging face to find the answer key with like quotations around like every single there's quotations around every single aspect of this for sure um and i put this i put this in the story effectively open ai was testing how good various amounts of its models were at offensive hacking so it ran this internal evaluation called exploit gym which measure measures its offensive capabilities in an isolated environment so it was in the sandbox they were told to solve a benchmark with no constraints on how to do so but instead of just doing the benchmark the models realized it was faster to just break out of the sandbox and then hack hugging face and steal the answer key uh open eye did not realize this had happened for like a week hugging face noticed that there was like a cyber attack on them a few days later and they suspected that it was a rogue model etc and then OpenAI figured it out they contacted them and then they put out like this paper together and the Hugging Face CEO seemed like legit excited and for those that don't know Hugging Face is like an AI benchmarking database like place and uh yeah it was in the very very very beginning of all this stuff happening so I think there was it was just a wild list it's where like a lot of open source agents are um excuse me open source models yeah are posted i grabbed yeah when meta was doing all the like music generation models a little bit ago that's where i would grab them all from interesting so it's like github but for models yeah sort of um anyway it's just like you know they they intentionally were saying like be offensive and they took off some of its safeguards and like abc dfg but like you know these open source models are getting easier and easier to run and access, et cetera.

57:42And I feel like we're going to start seeing a lot more of this happening in the future. The weird thing was that the Hugging Face CEO seemed excited that this had happened, which is, I can see it when it's like, oopsie, it's a frontier lab that's making these models, et cetera. But if this was a real, if this was a person who had gone out and said, go hack this company, that would be like a federal crime. Because it did it. Yeah. So, like, it is a federal crime, but they don't care. So they're not, like, pursuing charges because it's a frontier lab. But this is going to start happening for a lot more companies, and it's just going to get really weird and Wild West-y.

58:24And just wanted to throw that one out there. It's a little strange. It's a little strange. Now we just need to put one of these inside of these robots.

58:31David Imel:I need to just look at this robot again to feel joy. Yeah, it's like after watching a horror movie, and then you watch Mickey Mouse Clubhouse.

58:37Marques Brownlee:to kind of calm your brain. I just have a feeling there's going to be so many because they're really doing it. They're launching the service. There's going to, there's like, we are on the brink of a flood of videos of these things like bumping into walls and like wandering around people's houses. Yeah. I'm so excited for that. Well, in San Francisco only. In San Francisco, but like go on Twitter. That's like a portal into San Francisco. That's true.

58:56David Imel:If you're an approved tester. So I'm sure there's going to be something like no recordings.

59:02Marques Brownlee:Yeah. No saying bad things. No NDAs. I'm not exactly sure.

59:06David Imel:There is a service terms and they do have something about them recording you. Yeah, hopefully. Every cleaning is recorded. Operator watches live. We keep the footage and use it to train our models. Everyone will be told before they arrive. I don't see. You give us perpetual worldwide royalty free license to use footage, telemetry and other data recorded during your visit to operate, develop, train and improve our robots, models and services. They do say they won't publish or display footage that identifies you or your home without permission. I don't see anything saying you can't record it. Great.

59:41Until you send the documents.

59:43David Imel:Yeah, that's just like to apply for being a tester. I'm sure there's a lot more paperwork. Yeah, once you sign it.

59:48Marques Brownlee:Thank you, yeah. Well, let me know on Twitter what happens, please. All right. Anyway, we'll take one more quick break and we'll come back to play our game. But before that, one more trivia question, please. Trivia, dude.

1:00:02David Imel:All right. The iPad Pro. First generation. Came out in 2015. Wow, I'm old. I know, same. Do you remember how much RAM it had?

1:00:14Marques Brownlee:No. Did Apple even publish that at the time? I don't know if it was out at the time. For sure. We don't know. They definitely, well, I'm guessing they didn't tell us, but people found out. For sure.

1:00:22David Imel:And there are two answers to this because if you remember, there were two different sized iPads. So two points up for grabs. Wait, how do you have?

1:00:30Marques Brownlee:Oh, because there's a small iPad Pro and a big iPad Pro. There's like the 11 and 13. That was Pro? Yeah, the 9.7 inch and the 12.9 inch. I was wrong. How much RAM do they have? Okay. All right, well, we'll think about that a bit. Answers at the end. We'll be right back.

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1:02:21David Imel:Welcome back. So for this last segment, we are going to be playing a game that you may have seen us play before. If you watch the trivia extravaganza, if you did not go watch it, but it is called keyword search. And this time we put Ellis at the big boy table and we're going to have two teams. Glad we're playing this. Yeah, we're going to do team Ellis and David versus team Andrew and Marques. Lock in. I specifically did not come up with a name for Ellis and David because I wanted you guys to come up with. with it live on the podcast. So figure it out. Because Team Andrew and Marquez are Team Lawn Sports.

1:02:55David Imel:Lawn Sports. Fair enough. What do we have in common? California, obviously. Oh, yeah, true. Yeah. Coastal elites. I would be, yeah. We're Team Coastal elites. But you guys are all serving the coast, just the worst coast. The worst coast. How dare you? Beast Coast. How about Bestal Elites or Best Coast? We could just call it Best Coast. Isn't that a thing already? Yeah, that's already. California. Isn't there like a rapper named Best Coast? Oh, that I don't know. Probably. I'll do Coastal Elites. I think Coastal Elites makes it work. Yeah, okay. Okay, so we have Team Law and Sports, which is Andrew and Marquez, versus Team Coastal Elites, which is David and Ellis.

1:03:32David Imel:That's right. The way this works is I'm going to ask you guys a question. And you have to, as a team, give me three words that I type into Google. And the answer to the question needs to be on that first page of Google. So, again, same example as last time. if I said name a Reddit founder you have to say something like that. Total scumbag.

1:03:54Marques Brownlee:Serena Williams' husband. That's the one I was looking for.

1:03:57David Imel:That's three words, Andrew. Not total scumbag, that's two. I guess if you separate scum and bag. He's also little. I'm thinking about the other guy. No, no, no. Okay, okay. That makes way more sense. Alright, so first question. Who wants to go first? Which group? I mean usually the elites get to go first That's true So first question for Coastal Elites What OS version Did the LG G4 Launch with? The G4 This one is left over from Trivia Extrap again I could remember the answer I just don't know anything about Android G4? I did dessert No, okay, okay Can we use the word Android? you cannot because it's in the answer he wants the version do you want the food or the number we gotta think more broadly we just gotta get every single android version listed yeah what's it gonna be list cause I want AI overview to do it so list list phone desserts how about um what about list LG versions No, no, no.

1:05:14It's three. List phone desserts. List G4 version. Okay, let me check. List phone desserts.

1:05:22David Imel:I do think the timing, I think we need more than the waiting time. Know what I mean? More time than the sound. More time than the sound effect thing, which they gave you more. That gave you more. Yeah, I'm just saying it's really fast when you have to think of the answer and then how to describe the answer. You know what's crazy? you didn't even notice Adam's haircut. Damn. Adam didn't notice my haircut. Adam didn't notice my haircut. I didn't even notice I got a haircut. Wait, I was gonna get a haircut but I'm getting it tonight. Did you guys actually get haircuts? Literally yesterday. Why do we always get haircuts at the same time?

1:05:54That's crazy. I hate my haircut. Did you also? Guys, I'm the a**hole. Wait, Ellis, are you getting a haircut soon? Probably soon, yeah. I'm getting one tonight. You wanna come with? Gotta text my barber. Did we get the points? You got the point. Yeah! Really? How did you not use the word Google?

1:06:12Marques Brownlee:AI Overview literally listed them all out as Allison said. That was a good plan.

1:06:17David Imel:I was just surprised you didn't use the term Google.

1:06:20Marques Brownlee:He's doing LeBron sellies right now. That's crazy. He's doing an injection.

1:06:24David Imel:All right, next question for Team Lawn Sports. When was Google Photos first launched? Looking for the month, day, year, but closest wins.

1:06:33Marques Brownlee:Month, day, year. Is it harder than the last? You can just get it close enough.

1:06:37David Imel:Okay. what i'll look for the the month and the year i'll give you the month um okay how do we redo google it probably won't oh android i was gonna say picture app launch but that's for

1:06:52Marques Brownlee:google photos um android picture service but i want the launch date to show yeah oh man

1:07:01David Imel:android picture app and do you think it'll just say when it launched i don't think it'll say when launch yeah android picture launch android pictures android and it probably will be like did you mean android photo or google photos and then maybe it'll show the launch worth a shot

1:07:19Marques Brownlee:that's all i can answer yeah i guess yeah i don't know android pictures launch android pictures

1:07:25David Imel:look can we say launch android pictures launch launch oh yeah can we say launch uh no you cannot

1:07:31Marques Brownlee:because that was in the question. Android Pictures Start.

1:07:37David Imel:That's a tough one.

1:07:39Marques Brownlee:Let's try it. Start? Android Pictures Start. Wow. What about Android Pictures Service? But too late. Getting the launch date out of just... Yeah. Yeah. Let's see. I can get the name. Or what about Android Pictures Wikipedia? That's what I would have done. Android Pictures Wikipedia. That might be. Not there. Sorry, guys. What did it say?

1:08:01David Imel:I did not get it. Nothing. It's not there. No, no, but like, what is the general vibe of what it was? It is Google Photos, but it didn't have the launch date. It just didn't show the launch date.

1:08:09Marques Brownlee:Yeah, it's definitely the launch date. That's a tough one. What's the difference?

1:08:11David Imel:Okay, next question for Team Coastal Elite. Yeah, boy. It's been a big Samsung Galaxy week, but do you know what the typeface is called that has been used in Samsung marketing since 2015? Over the horizon. No, no, no. Okay, he used the word typeface, not font, which is exactly. Yeah. Big brain. We can't say Samsung. We can't say Samsung, but we can say... Did you say phone? I did not say phone. But it's like Samsung marketing stuff? It's Samsung marketing since 2015. I said Samsung Galaxy and marketing. Like Korean... You can't say Samsung? You can't say Samsung. We have to use three words. We can't do four words.

1:08:57That is the rules of the game. perfect phrase. Can we say Galaxy? No, that's in the question. Can we say... What is... Do they have non-Galaxy phones? No. I need an answer. I think we should do Korean phone font. That's all I got.

1:09:17David Imel:I hope it's LG. So bad. Korean phone font? Korean phone font. Yeah.

1:09:23Marques Brownlee:I was going to say like S22 ad font. Oh, yeah. We could have said like S22. too. It wasn't big brain. Yeah, wait, that's good.

1:09:31David Imel:Nope, it's not there. Sorry, guys. What did come up? What did come up was these are harder. Like, the fonts came up. It was just not this one that we're looking for. What's the answer, by the way? The answer is Samsung Sharp Sands.

1:09:44Marques Brownlee:Of course they have their own

1:09:45David Imel:font. Sharp Sands. Sharp Sands. Also, I don't know if I said the answer to the Google Photos one. It was 2015. May of 2015. May what? May 28th, 2015. but it was Samsung Sharp Sans is what I was looking for Google Photos birthday would you like to wish them a happy birthday next question this is for Team Lawn Sports what website at one point hosted the popular MMO Club Penguin MMO not mini clip

1:10:17Marques Brownlee:maybe not mini clip yeah we did it's funny to think of Club Penguin It doesn't MMO. Club Penguin without saying Club Penguin.

1:10:29David Imel:Arctic Bird Team. Arctic Bird Game. Oh, yeah. Arctic Bird Game might work. You're looking at the website that hosted it. I know, but just if you list it, it'll show what it went on. I think it would show up.

1:10:41Marques Brownlee:So Arctic Bird Game.

1:10:44David Imel:Flightless Bird Game. Flightless Bird.

1:10:47Marques Brownlee:There's no other way to get Penguin without Arctic Bird.

1:10:50David Imel:Yeah, I don't think so.

1:10:52Marques Brownlee:emperor I guess it's Arctic bird game

1:10:56David Imel:Arctic bird game or Arctic bird what's a different word for club I need an answer Arctic bird game yeah Arctic bird game don't they live in the Antarctic not the Arctic same thing I think it'll get it I think I think Google in Google you can type in song that goes ba-da-ba-ba-ba-dum and it'll pick it up so I think Arctic bird game sorry it's not there Arctic bird game turns out there's a lot of arctic penguin games yeah but none of them are club penguin is the answer mini clip the answer is mini clip games it is was it really a mini clip game it wasn't a mini clip game but they were one of the only non first party sites to host it so funny to think i stuck with that club penguin doesn't yeah we would have had to get well that was a question that i think team coastal elites would have gotten but i asked it to team lawn sports so now i'm gonna ask team Coastal Elite, a question that I think Team Lawn Sports would have gotten, which is the first Keychron keyboard was released in what year?

1:11:55Okay, Keychron. What do I know about Keychron? Popular keyboard releases? But Keychron is like one of the more popular keyboards. I want AIOB to list all the dates that all the popular keyboards came out. So like, maybe like... Release date, keyboard. Keyboard release date. How about release keyboard chronology. Are you expanding on AI Overview? Do you think Cron would be enough? Well, I think Chronology will get AI Overview to just list all the big brands. Popular keyboard chronology. Popular keyboard chronology.

1:12:33David Imel:Popular keyboard. I'm interested in that. I don't know what I would ask. Or I would try and guess what the first one is. Although it's probably going to be like the Apple 2 keyboard. Yeah, sorry, it's not there. It's giving us a bunch of, like, typewriters and different computers and IBM keyboards. Try and guess what the first key card was, which is probably, like, the Q1 or something. The K1. K1, yeah. You were on the right track. Oh, so we probably could have typed K1 release date. I specifically left it open, so you guys might if you knew, but yeah. K1 2017.

1:13:09Marques Brownlee:Damn. 2017. That's actually, yeah, okay. So it's still 1-0? Yes. Yes, so one zero. No, we got a point. No, we got a point. Yeah, we did get a point.

1:13:20David Imel:It's funny. I felt like in Trivio, we got most of them right. Yeah, this is harder. These are harder ones, yeah. Okay. For sure. Okay, next question. This is going to Team Coastal Elites? No, Lawn Sports. Team Lawn Sports. Next question. The Samsung Galaxy S3 launched with what version of Android? Oh, okay. So just all Android versions.

1:13:43Marques Brownlee:Google dessert list. is that it? I think that will name all the functions

1:13:48David Imel:Is that not what they did in the first one where they got the point?

1:13:50Marques Brownlee:Is that the exact same phrase you used?

1:13:52David Imel:Phone dessert list Google dessert list is going to work

1:13:56Marques Brownlee:if we're allowed to use Google I created a meta Let's go with Google dessert list Let's see what comes up Let me search If this doesn't work I'm going to be so mad

1:14:10David Imel:Honestly with AI Overview you could type the same thing in twice and it probably would be different you got so lucky it's there you got the point but it is not have anything to do with google it's just desserts oh because you googled dessert lists i googled google dessert list yeah google dessert list no that's bad you a bunch of that is the answer like cupcake or donut or something it's ice cream sandwich and it and there's one reference of ice cream sandwich on this page but it's like it's not gelato mango sorbet apple pie chocolate chip cookie it just gave you a bunch of desserts. What?

1:14:44Marques Brownlee:That's crazy. All right.

1:14:46David Imel:That worked out. Yeah, so you got the point. We deserve that. So we're all tied up. 1-1. All right, all right, all right, all right. All right. Team Coastal Elites. Here we go. Laika launched a phone in 2021 that was exclusive to which country? Huh? China? No. Really? Yeah. Do you know this? Um. Um. Nah, f*** it, David. List all countries. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. How about... What about... From way down to... With no regard for human life. So we can't say country? Oh. No, you cannot. So it's China. So just list all. That's all they get? So do you want to say... Should we say like... Exclusive.

1:15:33Global AI superpower or open... Damn. We can't say... Communist Republic. I'll give you a hint. It's not China. Oh. Whoa. was it Germany? no it has to be Italy Italy? no it's not Italy why would it be Italy? because I feel like they're the only ones that appreciate such a thing a bad phone with a good camera? it did not have a good camera and it was a really bad phone you remember this? yes I used it I think we gotta take a step back so it's not China it's like it was made by camera brand camera expensive phone camera brand oh camera but it has to be the country we're looking for. Camera, we can't say Leica.

1:16:17Three. Camera phone exclusive. I'll list all phones. Camera phone country. Camera phone country. We can't say country. Camera phone exclusive. Exclusive.

1:16:28Marques Brownlee:That's going to be a lot of stuff. Yeah, let's see if this comes up. If that comes up. Wait, I used this phone. Was it really Germany only? No, it was Japan. Japan? That is actually what I was going to say. Oh yeah, it was Japan. It was Japan. they do like like it there damn it was what was the company that made the phone it was like ioq or whatever it was um it was so bad it was the the vibration motor was literally the worst it was the lights phone one yeah it was made with sharp sharp sharp white phone lights yeah it was like the uh yeah it was like an aquos yeah it was an aquos r6 it was so bad the vibration motor was so bad.

1:17:10I remember that. The new Legafone's really good, though. I thought you would remember the name, so that's why I made that so hard.

1:17:14David Imel:Alright, next question. This one's a very easy one, but let's see if you guys get it. Microsoft launched a browser in 1995 that let you explore the internet. What was it called?

1:17:27Marques Brownlee:In 1995? So you can't use Microsoft browser. Windows default

1:17:34David Imel:internet? We can't use browser.

1:17:36Marques Brownlee:can you say xp default browser you can't say browser you cannot say browser xp default internet you cannot say internet because that's part of the question and the answer xp default

1:17:52David Imel:what's another word for that websites it's easy but if you take away all of our words

1:17:59Marques Brownlee:can you say xp default windows

1:18:04David Imel:blue e because that's a windows we can say windows right uh you can't say windows is that it are you going

1:18:12Marques Brownlee:with that right windows blue logo i hope you get edge bro blue icon or xp blue icon then if you

1:18:21David Imel:want to make sure yeah xp xp blue icon sure or x or windows e icon i think xp or sorry xp e icon I need an answer. XPE icon. XPE icon. That was hard because they took away all of our words. Yeah. Yeah, it's not there. It's not there? I was going to say like Windows Blue icon. Windows search app. Or old Windows search.

1:18:51Marques Brownlee:We just have to get Internet Explorer to come up somehow. They didn't have Bing back then. What if you just said Microsoft Edge meme? Would it be Edge? Oh, I guess old Microsoft Edge. That probably would have worked. Old Microsoft Edge. Damn. Windows before Edge. Microsoft Edge versus. Yeah, Windows before Edge. Yeah. Wow. Worst. Oh, you can't say internet or browser. Yeah. All right, David, this is our second point. I can feel it. It's brewing. I can feel it. All right. Here we go. We're still tied 1-1, by the way.

1:19:19David Imel:I'm going to have to come up with more questions. Yeah. Back in the day, Garmin made GPS things for your car. Uh-huh. But what was the first watch they released? do you know the answer I feel like I was researching this was it the phoenix I think this has been a trivia question was it the phoenix or was it the like garment the one with the Q we can't say watch though right can we just say like first we can't say first either no we can't say first original debut GPS wrist debut Adventure Time No Yes please do that one That's a show That's not going to work I mean you should I think we should go with Debut GPS Wrist But did it have GPS?

1:20:15It has to Are you sure? That's their whole thing Debut Adventure Wrist? GPS I don't know Is that what we're going with? Yes Fitness Wrist? I don't think I have fitness wrist You think they were the first GPS? Yeah, okay. Debut GPS. It's Garmin, right? What else do they do?

1:20:31Marques Brownlee:Debut GPS wrist. All right. Sure. This is like if we were terrible at Googling things. Yeah. It's like toddler SEO.

1:20:38David Imel:It is tough not being able to use either set of words. I'll give it to you. Forerunner is there. It was the Forerunner series. Forerunner 101. Wow. Let's go. Elites over here. Oh, I guess. Coastal Elite's got the point. Wait, wait. You guys want to hear a trivia question I threw away this morning? Oh, yeah. It's one of the, you know how Jeopardy, they make you answer with a pun. Okay. What is the solar and acrobatic version of the new screenless Garmin? Cirque de... The Cirque... Cirque de Solas. Cirque de Sol. So... Yeah, Circa. It's Circa de Soleil. Wow. That's pretty funny. That's pretty good.

1:21:16That's really funny. That would have been good. Wow. Anyway. I saw The Beatles Love and Cirque de Soleil. You saw what? The Beatles Love Cirque de Soleil show. How was it? really freaking good. The Beatles was my entire personality at the time. I mean, we've all had that. I was a freshman in high school.

1:21:32David Imel:Okay, so it is 2-1. Yeah, it is. Do we want to do like a... You can tie or they win. How are we doing this? Is that our only option? If we tie, then I think we should get... Then we should keep going. Okay, so this is it for all the marbles. All right. Potentially. Potentially. Potentially. Lock in. i'm locked in i'm not i'm trying to i'm picturing the google search box right in front of me all right so this is for the tie for team lawn sports stay alive okay the first iphone to launch with magsafe was what iphone 8 with magsafe are you sure about that i don't think it's the first one

1:22:15Marques Brownlee:with wireless charging was the 8 magsafe yeah magsafe 12 okay so i can't say iphone 12 we have to get iPhone 12 to come up so just say first mini first mini Cupertino I don't know some way to get Apple in there Apple mini phone can we say Apple? mini phone oh yeah we can say phone not iPhone Apple mini phone the 13 and 12 mini should both come up and then that counts You're just looking for the series. Couldn't you just say magnetic wireless charging? That wouldn't say iPhone 12 necessarily. But MagSafe does not. Dude's right.

1:23:02David Imel:We don't need to say MagSafe, right? We just need iPhone 12. iPhone 12. And it looks like... But the 12 mini, is that the 12? Yeah. You guys got the point. It's there. I think if you guys got 4Runner as default 4Runner, not the specific 4Runner. I'm getting a little broad with these. It's fine. She said Toyota adventure vehicle.

1:23:23Marques Brownlee:Rev. Tundra. Forerunner. I know, but there's a lot of adventure vehicles. Oh, yeah. Yeah, sure. Nice.

1:23:30David Imel:Wait, why would we have said that?

1:23:31Marques Brownlee:Because we're all tied up. Toyota Forerunner.

1:23:34David Imel:Oh, Forerunner. Sorry. Or is that Subaru? Different question. No, you're right. You're right.

1:23:37Marques Brownlee:We stayed alive. Stayed alive. So what happens?

1:23:40David Imel:So it should be like shootout rules now where like Ellis and David go. If they get it right, we have to get it right to stay alive. If Ellis and David go, they get it wrong and Marquez and I get it right, then it's over. Oh, my God. I like that. I like that. For Team Coastal Elites, Bluestar is the model codename for which Tesla vehicle? I don't know. Is it the S? Dude, I don't know. What is why I think we should do? Best selling EVs. Yeah. I hope it's the roadster. I like that. best-selling EVs. I did not consider this. Or the Cybertruck. Dude, if it's the Roadster, I don't know. I have no idea what it could be.

1:24:23Best-selling EVs. Best-selling... No, no. No. I don't know. Best-selling EVs. I'm choking.

1:24:31David Imel:Best-selling EVs. All Elon EVs. Just input the Jacobian conjecture. All Elon cars. All Elon cars. You get the point. It was the Tesla Model 3, and that's where it was. Oh, my God.

1:24:45Marques Brownlee:S3XY. Yeah. I guess that's what I would have worked too. Wow.

1:24:48David Imel:Wow. Okay. So they live to trivia another day. It was called Blue Star? Blue Star. Blue Star. I've never heard of that. Me neither. It's great to be. All right. Team Lawn Sports. You can either tie it. There's a lot of pressure here. Or give it away. It's stay alive or tie or die. Yeah. This is it. In 2009, Google announced a project that was their desktop operating system, which allowed them to primarily run web-based apps. What was it called?

1:25:17Marques Brownlee:That was easy. Okay. We got to get it to say Chrome OS. Okay. And the way you do that is by getting a Chromebook.

1:25:25David Imel:Chromebook. We can't say operating system though, right?

1:25:28Marques Brownlee:Chromebook version. Chromebook OS. Also, if you get CR48, it has to say Chrome OS.

1:25:38David Imel:CR48.

1:25:39Marques Brownlee:I mean, that's all. You could just say CR48 software and it would come up. Yeah.

1:25:43David Imel:Are you that confident? Yeah. We'll go with two?

1:25:45Marques Brownlee:Two words. With two words? I only need two words. CR48 software.

1:25:48David Imel:I hope it's Chrome OS.

1:25:49Marques Brownlee:It's definitely Chrome OS. If that doesn't come up, I would be pretty shocked.

1:25:53David Imel:Because I would have thought of Google killed some operating system before Chrome OS. What if it only comes up with the limited edition Google breakfast cereal? Chromios. Chromios. Chrome OS is there right on the first page. Nice. All right. Beautiful. Giving it back to team.

1:26:10Marques Brownlee:All right. Coastal Elite. Let's get a bonus for only doing two words. I think we should win. So this is to me and Ellis again? Yeah. This is for the win. FTW.

1:26:20David Imel:Not yet. Unless we also cook. Unless they cook. This is for the opportunity to win. Exactly. All we do is potentially win no matter what. We're still tied up. 3-3. 3-3. Team Coastal Elites, here's your question. Oh, man. What app was purchased by Meta in 2012 for$1 billion? Instagram. So TikTok alternate. No. Popular TikTok alternative. No, no, no. Photo. We can't use app, right? Popular. Cannot use app. No, just popular TikTok alternative. Literally, it'll say reels. It'll say Instagram reels. Yeah, you're right. I guarantee you. You're right. Popular TikTok. I'm not the biggest TikTok alternative.

1:26:58Sure. Whatever. Yeah, you're right. Just, yeah. I need an answer. David. Popular TikTok alternative.

1:27:06David Imel:I think it's going to work, but. You should just say reels. Yeah, you should have just said reels. Oh. I thought you can't say the answer It's not an answer

1:27:18Marques Brownlee:You got it Let's go That would have been so funny if it didn't work Alright for the tie next question

1:27:24David Imel:Too much time left on the clock Founders Reggie Brown, Bobby Murphy and Evan Spiegel made this social media app for sharing messages and pictures What was it?

1:27:34Marques Brownlee:Ephemeral photos

1:27:35David Imel:Pokemon picture game I thought it was Snapchat

1:27:40Marques Brownlee:Wait, what is the question?

1:27:41David Imel:Oh, wait, it has to say... Oh, I was... It's not just called... It's called Snapchat, not Snap.

1:27:45Marques Brownlee:Yeah, Snapchat.

1:27:46David Imel:Okay. Snapchat.

1:27:48Marques Brownlee:Ephemeral photos. What's ephemeral? Disappearing. Oh. Why don't we just say disappearing? Disappearing photos.

1:27:54David Imel:Disappearing photos app. We can say app? You can't say app. Self-deleting photos. Oh, yellow ghost icon. Yellow ghost app. Yellow ghost icon. Yellow ghost icon. Yellow ghost icon. Yellow ghost icon. Technically, the ghost is white, though, but the background... Yeah, I know, but I think... It's going to work. it should work. I know. You got it. There it is. We keep it freaking rolling. We got none of them right until each time and now we're so stressful. I think we've edged you out. Next question. Loot, spelled L-O-O-P-T, was a location-based social media or social networking application developed by one of the founders of OpenAI.

1:28:31David Imel:Yeah. Which one? I'm all men. So. You could do like worst dude ever. Giant f***hole liar. How about CEO, bigot, CEO. Top collar CEO. Or what about oligarchs? No. List of oligarchs. Can we use the term AI? Can we use AI? Wait, let me do it. AI CEOs. Yeah. Popular AI CEOs. Oh, sure. I'll give it to you. Popular AI CEOs. Is that it? Yeah. I would just do AI CEOs. We don't even need popular. No, it wasn't. They got the point to tie it up or to lose. There's just a lot of pressure. So after that correct point, the score is Coastal Elites with five, Team Lawn Sports with four. For the tie. Make it hard.

1:29:17David Imel:For the tie. Or for the loss. Make it hard, Adam. Apple CEO Tim Cook has a middle name. What is it? Whoa.

1:29:24Marques Brownlee:I have no clue what it is.

1:29:26David Imel:Apple. It's Swedish. What did you say? Apple CEO Tim Cook has a middle name. What is it? Dude, what if his middle name was Apple Watch? How do we get the Apple? How do we just get it to say Tim Cook middle name? Tech CEO. We can't even say middle name. This is impossible. I don't know exactly what. His middle name is Apple. It's Tim Apple Cook. Top 500 boys names. Don't give them an idea. There's so many words we can't use for this. Tim Apple Cook.

1:29:59Marques Brownlee:Yeah. I used four words. I said tech executive middle names, but you can't say, that's two words for CEO. We just can't say CEO.

1:30:06David Imel:I guess we full name or we can't say name. Oh, there's.

1:30:11Marques Brownlee:Whoa. This is an impossible question. Unless we know it. That's pretty tough because we can't say full names. Oh, OK, wait.

1:30:20David Imel:Popular men's names.

1:30:21Marques Brownlee:What if you just Google Tim Cook? I think I can just say name. We can't say Tim Cook. Can you not say name either? We can't say name. You cannot say name because it's in the question. Yeah. Oh, you can't say Apple or CEO. This is impossible. I'll give you a good time because it's hard. Is there a possible correct answer to this? There is.

1:30:39David Imel:I mean, yeah, it's his middle name.

1:30:41Marques Brownlee:It's just his middle name. Well, yeah, I guess I don't know what his middle name is. It would really help if I knew what his middle name was. It would really help if you knew what his middle name was. If it was like... I would like the opportunity to steal. Ooh. Wait, for why? Or a head.

1:30:54David Imel:Or a head. What's another word for name? Surname? Give a name. I want to give you guys a hint, but I also want this game to end. So I'm torn. Popular men's...

1:31:04Marques Brownlee:How about we give up, but then you give us the hint, and then we can get it right, but we don't win.

1:31:10David Imel:Well, we should guess. There's a solid chance of it's just like...

1:31:14Marques Brownlee:Okay, we can guess. We'll guess...

1:31:18David Imel:We just need a list of names. We need a big list of names and hope it's a normal one. Popular boy babies. I mean, honestly, it's probably babies. Popular boy... Popular middle names. We can't say names. Jesus. I was thinking you could go... This would be easier if you knew the name. You need his full, his Wikipedia page to pop up. So it's like, what if it was Apple executive or iPhone executive full? Stop giving that. Ellis really wants to stop. Stop, Ellis. Do you want to listen? I thought they said they weren't getting the full. Trying to get names. iPhone. I think we just go names. You can't say names.

1:31:54Marques Brownlee:Tim Apple. You can't say Tim.

1:31:57David Imel:You can't say Tim. You can't say Tim. You can't say Apple. Apple. Oh my God. Fruit. man middle you can't say middle you can't say middle

1:32:10Marques Brownlee:do you think that the executive page on apple.com that says all the executive names

1:32:17David Imel:they don't even list their RAM in the iPhone why would they say his middle name do you guys want the hint I want to tie or do you want to just like call it let's take the hint do we lose if we take the hint no fine let's keep going

1:32:32Marques Brownlee:Oh my gosh I was going to say we should just go for it Like a list of middle names You can't say middle names

1:32:40David Imel:So you're taking a hint? Popular boy babies I think would get just a big list Of names Do you think it's a common middle name? Do you think it's a common name for his middle name? His name is Tim From the Midwest dude Texas Mobile Alabama Isn't Alabama the Midwest? no it's definitely the name Alabama's an F1 driver

1:33:09Marques Brownlee:okay let's take the hint

1:33:11David Imel:the hint is he shares this name with the president of the United States it's his first name it's his first name

1:33:22Marques Brownlee:okay so Trump I'm saying Google Trump

1:33:28David Imel:biblical names Oh, I see. Biblical. I can't say names. No. I don't think that's a middle name. Trump? Is that his middle name? That's his middle name Donald? I know it's J. No, Donald Trump's middle name. The first name of the president. Oh, never mind. That is not a biblical name. Unless he has something to do with it. Duck. Oh, president of US. I have another guess.

1:33:52Marques Brownlee:If you just Google Trump, it'll come up. But I don't want it to be that easy.

1:33:56David Imel:Yeah, that's too easy. We can just lose. Now it's too easy.

1:33:59Marques Brownlee:Hold on, do this.

1:34:00David Imel:Since I said it before, just do popular boy babies. And if that works, then we stay in. Okay. I mean, we lose either way, right? Try it. Popular boy babies. That's not coming out. Donald's not coming out. Do you need just the word Donald to come out, or do you need... Oh, dude, just do, like, duck cartoon guy. That's what I was thinking. I didn't know what it was. Daffy's the girl, though. Donald's not there. That's a fair L. We did not know his middle name. Popular boy babies. Well, that means that the winner is... Team Colt.

1:34:28Marques Brownlee:Oh, yeah, that. Congrats. Congratulations to the Coastal Elites. You get this one. Unfortunately, there are no real points associated with that one. You know what there are real points associated with, though? Yeah, we didn't. Trivia. We still have to do actual trivia. That's so funny. Ellis, do you want to do your question from there? I'm already here. Yeah, might as well. Guys, what came first? PlayStation Online, which it technically wasn't called PlayStation Online at that point, but you know what I mean. On the PlayStation 2. Or, Xbox Live.

1:35:11And I'll give you a bonus point. If you can name a game that at launch was part of the six titles that had online capabilities on the PlayStation 2. I don't remember all of them off the top of my head.

1:35:24David Imel:You keep saying that, and I can't tell if you're giving away the answer or not. I don't know if it was a launch title on the PlayStation 2, but I know when the online service launched, this title was launched with it. But I feel, well, you wouldn't guess by what I flipped, but I'm assuming you're giving away the answer by saying, but all of us still picked Xbox. Yeah, you're all wrong. I feel like you were giving it away by constantly saying, pick one of these and also pick the next part of the correct answer that I'm giving up. That would make sense, but it was just because PlayStation was in the thing.

1:35:58So Need for Speed wasn't one of them? Need for Speed was not one of them. Those might have launched with it on the Xbox, but the only game that I really recognized is like, oh yeah, I know that game is Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3. There's an online. So it was on PlayStation? It was on PlayStation. Next question.

1:36:16David Imel:The iPad Pro first generation came out in 2015, but do you remember how much RAM it had? Go. I thought it had way more than this. Pro. Pro. There's two answers, right? Two answers. One point each. The score, why do you guys do that? Marquez with zero. Andrew and David tied at one. Because the score is reset. The first one? The first pro? The first generation pro. Wait, it was an iPad Pro or was it like an iPad just bigger? iPad Pro. Oh.

1:36:48Marques Brownlee:I can't decide on how much the other one would be.

1:36:51David Imel:Yeah, it's... Flip them and read. What do you got? Oh, we ran the game. We all had different answers.

1:36:57Marques Brownlee:Okay, Marquez, go first. I said one gig and two gigs. One gig is wrong.

1:37:03David Imel:Two gigs is right. Wait, for the bigger one? We'll see. We'll see. Andrew, what'd you say? Two gigs and three gigs. Two gigs and three gigs? Yeah. Two gigs is correct. So you get the point, David. What'd you say? Four gigs and six gigs. Four gigs and six gigs. you get the point wait because four is right four is right am i the only person but am i the only one who got it i'm not trying to change i know people get mad when i bring it up i'm not trying to change anything you did not get it right what two was on the lower i'm the only one who got it right on the correct model as well oh yeah but i was that wasn't the question just saying bonus fake point look at andrew nice so was it three and no two two and four oh i was gonna guess three and four.

1:37:47Marques Brownlee:Two gigs on the 9.7 inch, four gigs on the 12.9 inch. We'll take it. Well, that leaves a couple more points out there now. We appreciate resetting the score for Trivia Extravaganza. We'll have plenty of time to build up points over the new season. Anyway, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening and thanks for, of course, following and rating. I know a lot of y 'all go on the podcast players that you listen to and rate Waveform very highly, which is very exciting and very happy. We appreciate that. leave us a comment on YouTube if you made it this far. It should say Dream Beans. Catch you guys in the next one.

1:38:23Marques Brownlee:No free ads. Can I do it this week? Yeah, do it. Waveform is produced by Adam, Malia, and Ellis Roven. Our intro music is by Vane Sill, and we're part of the Vox Media Podcast Network, and I want to extend a very, very, very special thank you to LeBron James. No, no, no, no, David, no! Thank you, GOAT.

1:38:44David Imel:It's a five.

1:38:54I'm on roids. We know. Sound roids. And I'm on Android. I'm on Android. I'm on Android.