Google might have to sell Chrome!

0:00Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door. expertly cleaned and folded. So you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you. Like tea time you. Mmm. Or this tea time you. Or even this tea time you. So did you hear about Dave? Or even tea time, tea time, tea time you. Mmm. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse. It's time to be great. No, they're not. Microsoft Teams is not adding live translate. I'm excited. Yes, they are. They're going to be the greatest. They're not. It's going to be amazing.

0:39Sorry, Ellis, are you speaking in Spanish?

0:47Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez. I'm Andrew. And I'm David. This week, we have a car company rebrand that is sweeping the internet. We also have a new website that continues to sweep the internet. Newer website. Newer-ish. That's true. And also a ton of Google news from lawsuits to Android 16 early looks. But first, Tesla started rolling out V4 superchargers. Well, they didn't start rolling it out. They announced it, and then they're going to start rolling it out. V4 superchargers are going to do 500 kilowatts.

1:22Very exciting. For those who don't have the context of what exactly that means, 500 kilowatts. that would be um yeah so so electric car charging generally the faster the better and obviously there's a whole bunch of math with the charging curve it charges faster when you're at a lower state of charge and all that but basically v1 superchargers had i think a 75 kilowatt peak charging speed and v2s were like 125 kilowatts i might be getting the v1 and v2 numbers slightly wrong but generally the numbers have gone up over time which means faster charging that's this is the basic concept v3 superchargers 250 kilowatt max very very impressive but yeah you can add a thousand miles of battery a thousand miles of range to your battery in an hour so obviously you won't have to plug in for a whole hour to charge your whole battery which is great um v4 superchargers uh they announced the new cabinet and apparently cyber trucks will be able to do 500 kilowatts that's not necessarily twice as fast as 250 kilowatts but it is twice as much power and it shows i think uh there was a video clip that they put out where it was adding like 1300 miles per hour to the battery which is amazing um it also includes tesla semi support and the semi truck of course charges in megawatts they measure this in thousands of kilowatts so 1.2 megawatts would be 1200 kilowatts which is crazy is this a stupid question but i'm assuming a tesla semi truck isn't pulling up to a regular supercharger are they gonna have no yeah it literally wouldn't fit in the space right right they've had their own charging solutions in the past and apparently this new v4 cabinet will support the tesla semi you need a longer cable the whole higher power and all that but yeah this will this will also be fast for those this does though come with the longer cables right yeah mostly for cars that don't take the nacs port or well cars that now do take the nacs but have it at a different but i have a different spot there's too but they're also going to be including ccs connectors oh really at these stations cool yes so for cars that you know it's like you would have to buy a 2025 2026 model of a car that has the nacs and not everyone has committed to moving over to it but i think that tesla wants to be the gas station of electricity so and even the ones who did were seeing these like i mean cables being like you know trucks pulling up to be within like less than an inch of the charging thing and like it still is at like a 90 degree angle which cannot be good for that cord over time so like being able to put it in you know whether you're at the front or the back right or left anyone hopefully should be able to plug in yeah so for clearly they did start rolling out v4 charger charging stations this year but they didn't have the cabinets installed that allowed for this higher power gotcha so next year they're going to swap out a lot of the cabinets and then also just start rolling out way more v4 chargers sick so yeah that's we just had the uh the liado mega here which was also it supported 520 kilowatt charging and again the number might not mean a lot to everyone but the number that hit me the hardest was 10 to 80 percent in 10 minutes for your battery that's that's awesome that's like a full usable charge in not that much time so yeah hopefully a lot of cars will start being able to support that soon all right we should talk about this rebrand this Jaguar last minute addition to the the docket this morning lots of lots of talk on the internet lots of talk inside our own studio especially Tim our graphic because it's so good right it's fantastic everyone loves it yeah that's why it looks better bigger than a phone screen well i think let's get into it i don't think it is just the rebrand i think it's how the rebrand was launched and what was launched alongside of it that is why it's also i think so jaguar changed their logo it was an older typeface that was very it'd been around for decades correct might even say it's recognizable iconic even well the cool thing to do in the last couple years is take something super iconic and absolutely destroy brand recognition melt it down into a simple sans serif font and send it yeah that's that's what's been happening um so the new logo the new jaguar logo is just a different typeface yeah like we said everyone is kind of doing it i think if that were just it there would be backlash because when you have a singular thing for so long any change to it is going to feel weird and jaguar has been around forever and kind of known as you know the the old people car despite some of them i think looking very good but I don't think anyone disagrees with that right like it is kind of known as the old people car yeah the average Jaguar buyer is definitely 65 years old like factually I think a new typeface to kind of look newer in age isn't the worst idea but they they released it with this like commercial did you all watch the 30 second like ad it came with what were all of your thoughts on that can someone explain it or Ellis can you explain it as you're watching it yeah here can new live ellis has not seen it so these are his live reactions you haven't watched it yet oh i would love to watch you watch it it's a lot happening okay so

6:50what that was a card that was for a car yeah um wow okay uh look i'll start off with nice things all right i like i like the costumes that was really fun can you explain it to like for if someone hasn't seen it yet what happened i can try man but like so there's there's some people in some sort of like logan's runny like outfits and they're walking out on mars but it's pink and then it cuts to seemingly like a queen in in a royal gown she's moving flowingly then there's it says live vivid and then it cuts to a guy who looks sort of like andy warhol um he's spinning and he's painting as he spins it says delete ordinary but he's i don't okay i'm just gonna let's move on and then and then there's a woman in an orange dress in a blue room but she's upside down she's on the ceiling oh but then then she's not oh and then she has a hammer it's a yellow hammer so primary colors but then it says break molds which doesn't make sense because it's like a bauhaus primary it's okay um and then oh and then they're all together they're back on pink mars and they're sitting on a rock and they're they're doing these sort of twyla tharp asks looks to the side I don't get it man I don't really know what they're I don't know man when I was like a teenager my dream car like my absolute dream car was a 80s Jaguar XJS like I actually am like a huge passionate lover of vintage Jaguars and so I'm a little bit sad to see that we're not gonna get any more of those we're not gonna get like big classic classic, classy British steamboats.

8:44Yeah. But also, maybe we'll get cars that work. So... Yeah, a lot of reactions to this online. I think most people had the same initial reaction, which is, wait, this is a car company? What? It looks like it had nothing to do with cars. It's kind of just the beginning of a rebrand. It's a logo and a 30-second vibe, basically. It's not too different from nothing's marketing, I'm going to be honest. I was with the bugs and just the random Scandinavian people. This. Yeah. I think my issue with this is it felt Tim said this like at the end, it could have said Adobe instead of Jaguar. And it would have worked.

9:25It could have said anything. It could have said pretty much better Adobe. Yeah, for sure. Like this ad has just like nothing going on with it. It feels like they went into like a mid journey prompt and said, make me a 30 second ad. that feels like I'm thinking outside of the box and throw in a couple of sayings you would find on like a$5 TJ Maxx. Yeah. There's a chance. Is Jaguar announcing a car soon? Is that happening? Do we know? I think so. Are we going to get a car that like breaks molds and is like unexpected and looks totally crazy? Interestingly, the I-Pace came out a number of years ago, which was one of the earlier EVs that was on the market.

10:06That is true. But people generally did not like it. so yeah it was not that and did they just give up after that and now they're coming back so the crazy thing about the ipace i mentioned this a couple weeks ago is they still sell a lot of them to waymo and they're like lots of them on the road so they have a lot of electric cars out there so the waymos are ipaces yeah oh a lot of them i thought they were gas cars i thought they just changed i think they're starting to do they're gonna make their own cars too yeah but they're working on their own they haven't yeah they haven't made any new evs that i'm aware of since they've made hybrids they've made other cars but miles has reviewed another jaguar since then but i'll the other thing about this ad though is it's uh i mean we're talking about it on this podcast i don't remember the last time we talked about jaguar it's working like people are talking about jaguar the tweet just the tweet this isn't on blue sky or threads or on your instagram or just the tweet has a thousand retweets and 15 000 quote tweets i don't know if you guys are familiar with what a ratio is but that's a pretty strong statement people are just sharing the crap out of this 33 and a half million views um since yesterday 50 50 000 comments 50 000 comments so i don't know if jaguar could have made a more attention grabbing yeah uh ad if they tried yeah like imagine a regular car commercial getting 35 million views and 50 000 comments on twitter They'd have to do something insanely cool with the car.

11:33That very well may have been a point. They'd have to put hamsters in a Kia Soul. They'd have to go nuts. Like very, very cool cars have been announced that don't get nearly that attention. So Jaguar has the eyeballs on them. And that's probably honestly their main goal, even if they're getting roasted everywhere, is, hey, people are paying attention to Jaguar right now. So whatever their next car is, people will look at it. The funny thing is their logo and their banner image. I understand that it sort of looks like multiple layers of slightly different colored paint, but it kind of just looks like color banding it does um that's funny so you know also the banner and the profile picture are like the opposite right in the middle yeah looking at the website on ellis's computer here it's the first time that i went to or that he went to jaguar and i'm like looking at it i kind of like everything they're still using the old logo on their website that's what was going to be my nitpick though they're using the old logo on the top left that's so funny yeah but i don't know i kind of like it like as someone that doesn't know anything about cars and isn't in the car world and this is like my first real introduction to it i do understand that their old logo is very iconic it is also very very seated in like the 1980s for sure and i wonder if they're just like we are not selling any cars to younger people and we need to just do a full rebrand no matter what it is i think it's super reasonable to look for an updated rebrand And I just don't, I think my, I don't like the like cookie cutter.

12:59Guys, what are you talking about? Some of the most important celebrities to young people of all time have been Jaguar owners. Did you not know Frank Sinatra? Queen Elizabeth? Count Basie? Oh, I do like Count Basie. You don't think Gen Z cares about Count Basie? I'm looking at this website. I mean, it really feels like they're trying to get people to pay attention to whatever their next announcement is. That's really my take here. A new frontier is coming. Go bold. Something's happening. Oh, here, look. December 2nd, 2024. There's a date on the website. There's probably some other announcement.

13:38In some of the articles I saw about this logo, there was a car in the camo wrap that takes away the lines and prototype testing type of cars. So it does seem like they're coming up with something new. They're obviously not going to launch this just out of the blue. I paid two, baby. I got to ask. So what do we all think Jaguar is going to pull out that meets this criteria? That's disruptive. That breaks the mold. That's for the new generation. What's it going to be? Speculation station. An EV. Nothing. I don't think it's good. Nothing like car pay. Whatever car comes out is not going to match what this vibe is.

14:17I mean, if you're Jaguar and you're trying to reset a little bit, like remember we talked about Hyundai and Kia actually like successfully rebranding a little bit with their new EVs. And if you're Jaguar, you see that success and you're like, we got to do that to everyone who buys these cars is 60. We made a first EV like we have that heritage. Now we need to capitalize on it. Everyone knows about Jaguar. This might be what you would do. You might go, let's just turn over a new leaf. Abandon ship. We don't need any of this old, crusty old Jaguar heritage from the past hundred years. We're going to do this crazy new branding thing.

14:56We're going to change our logo, and we're going to just start with these EVs that are in a popular segment. Maybe it's a midsize crossover, and it's this colorful bunch of electric cars they come out with. I can see them doing that. On their site, it does say, the new era, a seismic change is coming. yeah so i also want to say car and driver says um that the automaker will unveil a design vision concept car during miami art week on december 2nd the concept will preview its first vehicle and jaguar's revitalized lineup which then goes to say this yet unnamed car will enter production by end of 2026 can i give my long wait time out of the box baby yeah listen what's the one thing that no auto manufacturer is doing.

15:39We have the midsize market. Sports car. No, sports car, the market's full. Midsize, market's full. SUV, market is definitely full. They gotta think bigger. I'm thinking 20 seats, 30 seats. Additional standing room for 30 more. Make it 35 feet long. Sell it exclusively to municipalities. Charge$2.50 to get on it. Preset routes. This is the market. The Jaguar bus. the jaguar bus i think we need to move on oh yeah all right it's blue sky time baby okay so get them david it really is it really is last week uh right as we were writing this episode it was reported that 15 million people had joined the service of blue sky previously the day before it was 14 million so that info had updated by the time i was editing the podcast dear viewer if you were watching the video it was up to 17 million yeah that was the screenshot that i so meta had been making a big deal over the fact that they were adding a million users to threads every single day and then all of a sudden a million users started getting added to blue sky every day and yes threads has almost 300 million people and blue sky is now sitting at about 20.7 million as of time of recording uh 20.6 actually as of time recording by the time you watch slash hear this it will probably be around 22 or so uh but yeah i mean it's growing very fast it seems like one of the main things that people are talking about on threads right now is blue sky and it's gotten to the point where people are arguing about which one is better which i find very funny because it's just it's the same thing as like android versus ios or sony versus playstation versus xbox people just love to be tribal about this stuff and there's all these people on threads being like i'm not going to blue sky because you can't grow your audience over there because you actually see your friends posts instead of random people seeing your posts and i'm like it's just hilarious anyway i'm very happy to see uh growth of another platform obviously it is not running on activity pub it's running on the at or at protocol but it is still a decentralized social network jay is working a lot with people like evan padromo to make there be more interoperability between blue Sky and the Fediverse.

17:58Jay is the CEO. Jay is the CEO of Blue Sky. There's something called Bridgy Fed right now, which basically bridges the Fediverse and the AT protocol universe. So, I know it's messy. Protocols are always messy. No, it's just, we're actually living in the timeline where it's like, oh, can you mastodon me? Oh, no. But if you hit me on Bridgy, or if you use your Bridgy Fed account, it'll make it all the way to my Blue Sky toot. It's like, no. Woof. We're getting back to woof again. Well, you know, we also live in the era where Hawk Tua Girl launches Pookie Tools was a headline from TechCrunch. That was a thing.

18:34You know. We didn't cover that, did we? I don't think we need to cover that. Is that like a React competitor? What? Is that a React competitor? React Native? Yeah, Pookie Tools. Pookie Tools. I don't know. Sounds more like a Pokemon competitor. Yeah, so if you're not on Blue Sky yet, you should get on it because it's fun. And if you do get on it, you should follow us. can i ask everyone a question here i think everyone at least in the last week has gone on to blue sky and kind of reactivated their accounts except ellis um i just want to pose a question what is one thing you're really liking about it and one thing you're disliking about the current state you're not allowed to say user base because we all know it's the lowest user base kind of all of them yeah i can go i can go first yeah go first yeah um i enjoy just the people that I follow being on there a chronological feed the discover feed needs some work for sure but it is nice that I can pop between them and every time I refresh it seems to remember that big like the thing I've been disliking lately and maybe this is just because of the influx is I keep getting these like suggested these threads posts whatever that are essentially making fun of threads by saying we have to make sure that blue sky doesn't turn into threads and the engagement farming like hellhole that it is um so we need to make sure everything is authentic and not just for farming engagement and then all of those threads have a ton of retweets and everything and feel like that is the engagement farming on blue sky is to make fun of engagement farming well i mean the same thing is happening on threads for sure people people are just saying blue sky sucks and then it has a ton of retweets and stuff it's just like guys get out of your echo chamber it's just like let's just just do what you want it to be and show with action let's not immediately start complaining and then piling on it because that just feels like yeah the same thing we've always had to deal with yeah i like that you can default to the following feed good one yeah i like that it's chronological and that you have multiple different feeds that you can jump between i love the starter packs those are really fun and interesting starter packs are basically these packs of accounts that you can build so that someone can just inject their starter pack directly into their account so that they're following all the people they want to be following.

20:48Can you show me how to do that real quick? Yeah. Or like if I wanted to find a starter pack. So it's under profile, starter packs, and you can create one. Okay. So I would go to a profile that I'm following already and see if they've created a starter pack. Or they'll skeet about it and then you can follow that. Forgot about that. I'm not going to say it. Yeah. I think that's super useful. I've been trying to figure out how to like I guess it mostly is the people but I'm trying to figure out what the difference in vibes are and I think on Blue Sky there's a lot of positive energy about this new growing thing and if you post something what I felt was that most of the replies were on topic about that thing which shouldn't be a surprise which is how it used to be but that's how I was like wow this is so refreshing that I posted about one thing and then the replies were about that one thing and then we engaged about that one thing and then moved on which is kind of how threads i think is trying to be because everything's combined with the thread but i think x is not like that at all so i feel like that that difference was striking to me and i don't know how long it's going to stay that way i think more people means less i think it will i think a lot of it comes down to incentives right it's like twitter x now pays people for engagement.

22:03So the reason that it goes off topic immediately is because if something gets a lot of likes or engagement, everyone else who wants to make money just posts some funny meme below it that's not even relevant to the post. It's like, what are you consuming here? It also helps that the people who want to make money are verified because you can only make money through verification. And now blue check is the top of post so they automatically get a to only fight with the other ones. And so, yeah, it's really hard to find, especially if you're a larger account like Marquez. Like, yeah, I used to go through your tweets all the time and read comments and like get useful feedback.

22:40Yeah. That hasn't happened in a while. It seems like it's the worst on X. Yeah, it is definitely the worst on X. Threads is also it's just this giant grinder of people that just throws people at you and none of them know who you are. And there's no like context about what you're talking about, about who you're talking to. and so there's a lot more fighting on threads i noticed last week someone posted about how final cut is like a really good value and how it's crazy that you only have to pay $299 once and you get it for life and it's a great value and i just commented yeah you know apple does that because it's more valuable for them to keep you on the macbook and the whole apple ecosystem so how dare you so they're willing so they're willing to like sell you a product once and not charge a subscription service because it keeps you in the ecosystem.

23:27And the person immediately started screaming at me and was like, how does that negate anything that I said about blah, blah? And I was like, dude, I literally commented, I'm not trying to fight you, man. I'm just like creating a dialogue about why Apple does this. I'm not saying it's good or bad. Yeah. I'm trying to start a thread, bro. Yeah, he eventually backed down. But I feel like the vibe on threads is that people are always yelling at each other. so people assume to be yelled at. Whereas on Blue Sky, because it's more focused on the people you follow and then like second level connections, like if Andrew were to comment on something on another person's post, I'd see that.

24:06That at least gives you some context as to like what you're communicating with and it's just a healthier dynamic. And that's been completely destroyed with most of the other social media networks, primarily because of incentives like making money. Threads also pays a lot of people to make money by posting, which is what has caused a lot of engagement bait. so uh yeah blue sky it's obviously like more like old twitter where you you don't make money on it it's more focused on your friends and right now they're not a public company so they don't have to grow their user base so rapidly like the other companies do uh hopefully it stays that way that's if they stayed private it would be the best thing ever please don't ipo please don't ipo even just that though more users always the more people we have the more chance there is for things we don't like also true also true it'll be the weird thing of like is this thing on to like i wish this thing was off yeah you gotta hit that middle there's also an irony where the chronicle chronological feed allows you to jump on look at the like eight posts that have been posted since the last time you were on and then be done true that's the red wants that to never happen they want to keep you on they want to keep you on the site as long as possible they want to keep you around engaging and hopefully showing you things as much as it's just like every other algorithmic feed they just want to show you things that will keep you happy and keep you on the site making the money through ads right whereas this makes me happy but i'm not on it as much whereas threads makes me sad and i'm on it too much have we had the conversation about how blue sky makes money well right now they don't so is that like a ticking time bomb type situation or do they can they have not make money they have talked about ads and like different things that they will do it's sort of like twitter right losing money right with servers yeah definitely the more they scale the more they grow the more it's going to cost them for sure, which is definitely a thing to think about.

25:56That is why we're still waiting for another server to pop up. Yeah. Right now, bluesky.social is the only server. It costs a lot of money to run a server. So for a company to run the infrastructure to run a server would be a lot. But you did think about Twitter. Twitter didn't really make money for quite a while. And they had this dual stake shareholder thing where Jack Dorsey owned a lot of the company. and I think he wasn't as focused on making money off of it but actually just creating healthy social media you can say what you want about Jack Dorsey but he did care about the health of a social media platform he's the one that actually like incubated blue sky at twitter and it was supposed to be the protocol that underlied twitter and then Elon bought twitter so that didn't happen so they spun off anyway if you want to know a lot more about blue sky and you're more interested we have this whole deep dive episode that we did like two or three months ago.

26:47So it's very relevant now. So go watch that. We can link it in the description. Also, I made a long form episodes playlist on the Waveform podcast channel. So if you go on the channel, you can watch all of them there. You can deep dive and then you can stay in our algorithmic feed. Never leave. Stay on the Waveform podcast. Exactly. Sick. Yeah. All right. Well, we should take a quick break. We're going to come back. We have a lot more to talk about with Google, But before we take a break, trivia.

27:19It's way more exciting. First question. Yeah. We all know that kilowatts is 1 ,000 watts. Oh my God, I might get this one. But which of these is bigger? Oh no. One deca-watt. Yoda-watt. Or one watt? Oh. Hmm. Deca-deca-deca-deca-watt. I'm just going by my Latin on it. Is this one of those things where like... It could be a fraction. Everyone outside the US are going to be like, I learned this in first grade. And we're all going to have three different answers. You're like, here, her, her. I learned about gold mining in first grade. So who's the real winner here? Yeah, we learned about freedom. You guys might have learned about science.

28:03But I got gold nuggets at home. That's funny. Fun fact. When David and I drive to work, we actually measure the drive's distance in gold nuggets. It takes approximately 137 gold nuggets for us to get to work. Yeah. Fortnites. You know, Fortnite is a measurement of time. Two weeks, right? Yeah. Two weeks. It's spelled differently in the game. It is spelled differently in the game. All right. We will come back after the break and the answers will be at the end like usual. See you in a bit. Fortnite.

28:41Support for this show comes from Shopify. When you're starting a new business, there's so much to do. Sometimes it can feel like you're playing in a Super Bowl, but you're the only one on your team. Shopify says they can help. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world, offering tools to help your one-man band play like a champion. Shopify says they can help your business grow with sales, design, marketing, and more. Can't design a website? No problem. Shopify offers beautiful, ready-to-use templates that fit your brand's style. Need extra support? Their AI-powered commerce tools can assist with everyday tasks like enhancing product photos, writing product descriptions, or generating discount codes.

29:16And if you get stuck, Shopify is always around to share advice with their award-winning 24-7 customer support. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. You can turn your big business idea into with Shopify on your side. You can sign up for your$1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash waveform. So just go to Shopify.com slash waveform. Shopify.com slash waveform. Welcome back. Today we have a lot of Google news. A lot of googly, googly news. RIP Google News. It's still around. Google News? Yeah. Are you sure about that? Yeah. I use it all the time. Can we name this episode Great Google?

29:59Oh, sorry. Wait, what was the RSS thing called? Google Reader? Ah, sorry. Oh, yeah, that was a long time ago. RIP Google Reader. RIP Google Reader. Anyway. Anyway, okay, we got a lot of Google News. Now, this first story might break officially today. The story we're reporting on is a leak from Bloomberg that says that the story is supposed to actually come out, like the official ruling, today, today, the day of recording, Wednesday, November 20th. What the story is, is you might remember that back in August, a judge ruled that Google had been maintaining an illegal monopoly by paying search companies to be the default search engine.

30:37Remember that? We had a whole episode on it. And they'd say that was not cool. I thought the episode we had on, they have too many lawsuits. There's a lot of lawsuits. Okay, because we also did the Play Store one. We did. We did. There's quite a few. But that is the one in which they said Google is actually maintaining a monopoly. So we've been wondering what that remedy was going to be. And it turns out, at least according to this Bloomberg leak, again, the actual story might drop today, that the Department of Justice is going to be asking the judge to force Google to spin off Chrome, like the Chrome browser, specifically because Chrome represents a key access point in how people use Google search.

31:16Microsoft Chrome? Anyone? No. Okay, I've always wondered about these like spin off things like break up this big company into several smaller businesses, right? So Chrome is too big. Spin it off. It has to compete on level playing ground with Safari, Internet Explorer, Edge, everyone else. It's its own separate business, right? Yeah. What's preventing that talent who just worked for Google from collaborating with Google? Are there more laws that have to like drive a wedge between Google and Chrome? Or is it just they are technically separate by the books now? I don't really know how it works. It's that now Google can't tell Chrome how to operate.

31:58But they can still collaborate? They can, but Chrome can now collaborate with any other company or business organization. So they may get a better deal. The idea isn't that Chrome is so powerful and holds so much of the market that they need to be their own thing. It's that Google can use Chrome as leverage to control the entire corporate landscape. Because remember, Chrome is a free application, right? They spend a lot of money developing Chrome, but they use Chrome as a portal to all of Google's goods and services that actually do make money. It's not dissimilar to the Nexus 7, which they lost$50 on every Nexus 7 they sold just to get people to sign up for the Google Play Store.

32:37RIP. Yeah. RIP. So then at this point, somebody else in the market can come to Chrome and offer it. All that sweet, sweet user data that Chrome is collecting relentlessly, they could sell that to everybody now. yeah interesting so yeah yeah so the issue right now is like chrome is reportedly worth between 15 and 20 billion dollars so any company that could actually afford to buy chrome is also probably one of the giant companies i would say no one's gonna yeah they shouldn't buy chrome but if google splits from chrome and they're like dang they're really salty about it but they still want to use chrome as leverage they still cut special deals with the chrome business to continue to maintain Well, I mean, they're under this DOJ scrutiny, so I don't think they would allow that to happen.

33:25Interesting. Okay. Exactly. It's my only contribution. I guess I don't know the specifics of how those things work, and I'm curious. It's fine. Neither do they yet. Yeah, that's a good point. But I guess also in that is it'll be you can't cut special deals when you have other companies coming in with deals that are probably sweeter than that. So even if at the end of the day, well, you can, but it's less incentivizing, too. That's true. Everyone wants to make money. When Chrome is its own thing, they are going to want to make money. They won't give a damn that Google is like made them or whatever.

33:59They're going to ditch that and they're going to make as much money as possible. And even if it winds up being Google still is like the main connection to Chrome, all that, Google will probably have to pay more money in all of that. This is not dissimilar to how Android was originally started as an open source platform because they needed to get a bunch of OEMs to use Android, to grow Android. But as soon as Android became huge, they started tying all of these things that used to be an AOSP to Google Play Services so that you had to sign Google's license agreements, even though Android's open sourced.

34:33Like if you use Android, you're stuck on like Android 5.0 basically with all the stuff that they included in AOSP. Right. So that's a big reason why they needed to break them up. They're also asking the judge to force Google to license its search data and let publishers more easily opt out of training Gemini on their work, which they currently don't do. Yeah. So. Let me opt out, please. Yeah. That's the leak from this morning. So this could easily change by the time we're live with this podcast. but i'm interested in what the opt-out thing would be because it it feels like we need that one like base ruling to be able to reference in terms of opting out of ai stuff because it seems like every company right now is like we know it's coming let's get as much as we can before we have to actually do it previously they had this file called robots.txt that if in robots.txt you put a thing that said you cannot train on this you were supposed to adhere to that but then a bunch of companies like perplexity got caught basically just completely ignoring robots.txt and they would say like oh it wasn't us it was like one of our vendors that goes around collecting data but it's the exact same thing that happened with that pile data set where they were like yeah we're using the pile but we're not the ones that collected it it's like yeah i have a question about this sure so let's say chrome does get spun off and like this article says that a potential buyer could be like amazon yeah wouldn't that just make them the monopoly that's what that's what i was saying yeah like that's weird yeah so i mean yeah it's strange that they're even trying to make them like sell it as opposed to just spinning it off and having them be their own business obviously it might be a little bit difficult for them to just figure out how to make money out of nowhere that might be the main problem i'm sure they're going to be giving a timeline and a bunch of stuff like that but it is kind of problematic that they're worth 15 to 20 billion dollars they also make chromium which is now the underlying uh browser engine behind uh edge and then a bunch of other browsers firefox is like one of the only browsers right now that doesn't use chromium uh safari on webkit and then it's on web webkit yeah what i don't know if firefox is on webkit i know safari is i don't think firefox is on my kit but yeah safari safari and firefox are like some of the only browsers not on chromium arc is on chromium it's everywhere yeah so yeah fox is on quantum browser engine which is their own one yeah but again mozilla is a foundation so there's that and they like they weren't really making any money either besides selling uh letting google pay them to have them be the default search engine so i don't know how so how firefox is going to make money after this but either way yeah it's like it is kind of a foundational thing to have a browser with the most market share as a portal to all the Google goods and services because they just really plug in everything.

37:31You know, they're trying to make Gemini like a core part of the Chrome browser now. So that is going to play out throughout the week. We'll probably talk about it again. So play out through the next seven years. Episode 600 will have the final ruling of what happened to Chrome. Probably. But the next story is actually fairly relevant to this. Google story number two. Yes, Google's starting to. Google is reportedly ditching Chrome OS and making everything Android. That actually would make sense in conjunction with this. Because obviously Google can't really have Chrome OS when Chrome is Chrome and going to be a separate company potentially.

38:12So they want to, apparently they want to make everything Android because it would allow it to compete with the iPad a lot more easily. they don't really feel like Chrome OS really works on tablets and Android sort of is the only thing on tablets right now. And it doesn't, it doesn't make sense that they have such a fragmented ecosystem when it comes to. People have been taught. I feel like people have been talking about this for years. Like when are they going to merge? Are they going to merge? And if anyone ever asked Google, they'd be like, no, no, no, no, no, no, they're totally separate. Yeah.

38:38Chrome OS. I mean, you can put Android apps on it, but they're totally separate. It was always a little confusing. Yeah. And so this to me makes a lot of sense in general, just because of the user experience. So yeah. Okay. Yeah. put Android on everything. So, and they're also reportedly working on a new flagship Pixel laptop that will probably run Android. So my question becomes, Chrome OS is just this really awkward operating system with this vision that Google had where the internet was your computer. You always had Wi-Fi, Chromebooks, and that you were always going to store everything in the cloud and nothing needed to run locally so they can sell them cheaply, they can put them in schools, all of this stuff.

39:18I feel like we are quickly moving towards this world where that's not really the case anymore Apple has never shifted everything into the cloud they have some stuff in the cloud like your photos and all that stuff but they're all about local processing yeah and a lot of applications require a lot of local processing yeah so my question is like a premium pixel book pixel laptop that uses android if it's as expensive as a macbook air or like a mac mini or the last pixel book or the last well yeah the last pro pixel book was was very expensive and it's just you can't do that much on them you know yeah i i so chromebooks had a small niche of success and they had a lot of success yeah they depended on you obviously having an internet connection so like they are the most useful when you do have a reliable internet connection and they seem like a dumb idea when you don't yeah so but also applications that just don't run on them right you can't use photoshop also true you gotta use photoshop web and i think the argument would be like if you're a student or if it's if it's your first laptop or whatever 99 of the things you would ever do on a laptop are available through web apps like you have web apps that can edit photos you have web apps that can you know edit music you can make all kinds of things with them and so it was like yeah i'll I'll do everything on the Chromebook and I don't need to pay a ton for storage.

40:43I don't need to pay a ton for RAM. Like all the processing is happening elsewhere. I just saved a bunch of money and I always have an internet connection. So this is great. Yeah. So it made a lot of sense if you had a good internet connection, but that is an if. Right. That not everyone can say they have. Also, I kind of think that Google only really made Chromebooks to sell very cheaply to schools because exactly why the Department of Justice is suing Google over Chrome being this like way to get access to all the other goods and services that Google offers they're just onboarding children onto Google services so that there are they already have accounts by the time they're in high school right and you're not gonna like there's friction between switching everything from Google services to Apple or Amazon or whatever and so it's just like a way for them to get the next generation of people on Google stuff which makes sense because they always talk about the next billion users and like the young people are gonna be the next they're being born right now yeah and that's also that's not a new practice in the industry too i remember my dad telling me when he was studying cs at brown in the 80s that at one like his sophomore or junior year or something like that apple just came and gave brown like totally thousands of new computers yeah and no one at the time was using apple computers but the next six or seven graduated classes of brown yeah i'm so good no i'm i middle school apple always donated computers to us for our computer lab and they donated final cut final cut seven and they donated all this apple stuff i life i life i life i life yeah yeah i did unbox one of those many years later yeah this i guess my only question here is at what level is this because like chrome os made sense because it wasn't windows but if we're just doing a laptop that's trying to do things offline why is it not as windows because they're just making their this sounds more like a windows competitor than well google wants to have something from the ground up right google wants their windows yeah the problem is android is not windows and it's sort of i mean they're they're just like the vr headsets are barreling towards the smart glasses and the smart glasses are barreling towards vr headsets android phones are barreling towards being able to be computers that you can plug-in, and Android-based computers are barreling towards the ability to have touchscreens and use them like tablets.