Google's Epic Loss!

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1:00What is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez. I'm Andrew. And I'm David. All three of us. We're back. Feels good. Feels good. It's been a minute. I've missed you guys. Yeah, welcome. Were you like busy or like how come you - Oh yeah, just like a lot of stuff. Yeah, my kiddo came a little early and it's been great. And you guys have been great. You've been kicking ass without me. Have you actually been keeping up with the pod? Because I feel like that's impossible. It's hard. I watched the Raleigh episode because I was like so excited and so sad that I missed it.

1:34But you guys did awesome. It was a great episode. If you haven't watched it, go back and watch it because it was a bonus episode. But like, yeah, it's been awesome. We've been missing you. Thank you. I've missed you guys. It's cool being back here. Your trivia score is exactly the same as what it would have been if I was here. Let's be real. Let's carry the one still there. We made double digits. We got where we needed to be. Adam has been carrying the one, actually. Has he been carrying the one every week? Appreciate it. It's heavy. It's heavy. It's not for yours, though. I've been carrying it for David.

2:02It's switched, people. I'm sorry. I feel like that's my fault. I'm just trying to carry the team, you know what I'm saying? You are carrying the team. Thanks. Well played. Well, we have a good episode this week. We're in December. Tech-cember, I think, as we were trying to. No, December. Sorry, December. December. So we got a whole bunch of stuff. So first of all, Epic has officially beat Google in its antitrust trial, which has some interesting implications. Google also has this new AI storyteller. It's not out, but we got to hear about it, and it's pretty amazing, pretty insane, actually. Also, we got to watch spatial videos on the Vision Pro, which we'll talk about as well.

2:36But first, we've got an update on a couple little things. Remember that Gemini video we talked about last time, which was a demo of the new large language model and Google's multimodal abilities with AI? It was heavily edited, as we suspected. Yeah. Yeah. And I still think that's OK. That's my hot take is I still think that's OK. Not a lot of people agree with that. A lot of people are very angry that Google so heavily edited. I thought it I thought everyone kind of knew that that was edited. But the way they presented it, when you watch it back, is very misleading. It makes you think they just start drawing and immediately start getting cues in real time from Google and super high speed.

3:18And that's not exactly what's happening. It's very curated. They tried a bunch of stuff ahead of time they're using this video to demonstrate what it's capable of right but it's not an actual demo did you watch this video andrew i didn't see the whole thing i saw like people saying oh this was fake so i i have not been able to keep up with the news very well so i'm going to be the passenger here but i am interested in this because it does seem a little weird to have a heavily edited video even if you are a type of person who expects it to be kind of like that you have to go in in understanding most people won't, and think that it's real.

3:51There are people who thought TeslaBot was real, so let's step back a little bit. The guy in the dancing suit, or the actual one? Wait, TeslaBot was a guy in a suit? The first one. The dancing TeslaBot was a guy in a suit. But the one that slowly walked on stage ominously, that was? That was probably sort of along the lines of Boston Dynamics scripted choreography. But no flesh. No flesh. I mean, robots don't have flesh. That's the thing else he's worried about. The prospect of man in a suit is thrown out of there. So can you explain it real quick? So for people that didn't see this video yet, last Wednesday, Google announced its new Gemini model, which has three versions.

4:30There's a mini version that goes on your phone. There's a pro version, which is basically in the cloud and is supposed to power BARD. And then there's an ultra version, because of course everything has to be ultra and pro max now. Pro max, yeah. And that one is in the servers and is going to be for enterprise applications. So, Google released this video that showed the multimodal capabilities of its Ultra model. And they said in the beginning of the video, we want to show you some of our favorite things that we figured out it could do. And they had this, like, really fast-paced, like, no-stops video where some guy, like, starts to draw a duck slowly.

5:06And it's like, what do you see? And he's like, it's like, oh, you're drawing something. Oh, it looks like a duck now. And then he shades it in. And he's like, oh, it's a blue duck now. and then he puts a rubber duck on it and it's like oh you put a rubber duck on the table that's just like the duck that you just drew and then just does all this crazy stuff in a very fast paced like it's like a four and a half minute video where it's just non-stop like movements of like really complex tasks and very multimodal capabilities and it seems really awesome and i sent it to marquez and adam like the morning it dropped and i said watch this we've got to talk about it on the pod, it's really cool.

5:40And then a day later, they were like, yeah, so it wasn't live video, it was individual prompts that we asked it about a thing that we put on the table, and also the things we put on the table weren't the same things we showed you. Oh wait, what? Yeah, it was like the drawing. That's further than, yeah. I could kind of understand if it's like processing and taking a while to process, and then you cut in between that and make it seem like it's a little snappier, which still seems not great but yeah to me but we didn't even show you the real yeah it was like a little much it was more of a demo of just here's what google's multimodal ai could look like yeah and but that's not what they said but that's not what they said they definitely presented it as here's what we made yeah that feels and in the future it will in the picture it probably will that seems cool but like i think part of that the fact that they chose something that was so simple and like it feels like you wouldn't fake it to fake it feels almost like they were trying there was a bunch of stuff that was cool like he pulled a map over and he was like what's this and it's like it's a map of the earth and he's like can you create a game for me based on the map and it just generates this new game okay that's a bit here's some rules for this game and you put your mon antarctica and you put your tiles on here and it does like a lot of really interesting cool stuff um that's cooler and a little more reasonable to be like okay this is what it's gonna do yeah now maybe this could be fake but like the billy madison blue duck thing right and to be fair to google like the prompts that it delivered like the responses it delivered were similar to like everything that it showed it's just that you had to prompt it and then it would be like processing boom but instead it was like he wasn't even asking it questions a lot of the time it was just like oh it's this and he's like oh hey and he just talks to it like back and forth but anyway i just I was sad.

7:30Cool. I get the backlash from how you're describing it. I totally understand. There's a reason I'm wearing these glasses. That's good to know. For audio listeners, more kids are currently wearing the Ray-Ban glasses. Yeah, I didn't even mention that. No, my take on this is like, I think the multimodal stuff is super cool, and I might have even said this in the last pod, which is alright, this multimodal thing is just in the ultra model, and we might not get our hands on it or be able to use it anytime soon until until someone else comes along and makes some other cool multimodal thing. And then Google feels pressure to push theirs to the forefront because they've had it too.

8:04And then GPT has multimodal and suddenly they're everywhere. These meta glasses that I'm wearing got an early access update a day ago that enables their multimodal AI function. So there's a meta assistant in these glasses, which you can think about it what you want. It's not that great. It's not even Siri level, but it does some stuff. It's internet connected, and it's now also connected to the camera on the front of them. So before, I'm going to try to do a demo of this with like pointing it at my ear. So before I could go, hey, Meta, what's the weather tomorrow? In Kearney, New Jersey, United States, it will be sunny on Thursday, December 14th, with a high temperature of 41 Fahrenheit and a low temperature.

8:46So you can hear that, right? It just says the weather. how have we not made like answers more like conversational and stream like why can't it just be like it'll be 71 in carney tomorrow i know i think it it's trying to confirm that it understood my question yeah you can so it's like but it always goes way too long i know imagine asking someone like david do you know what the weather's gonna be tomorrow in carney new jersey tomorrow it will be sunny and it will be 41 degrees fahrenheit well the one time that you ask it what's the weather and it thinks you're asking what's the weather in cupertino and then it says 55 and it's totally wrong, you'll want to know that it's wrong.

9:20No, I'm saying it could say Carney, but like, it's just taking way too long. Yeah, just let me know. Either way, there's an update that lets me ask specifically, and I have to say this exact phrase every time. Hey, Meta, look and tell me what you see.

9:40And so you just heard that photo thing? Yeah. I see two people sitting in a radio studio wearing headphones and facing towards microphones. They appear to be hosting a show or podcast. That's pretty crazy good. That was pretty solid. Sick as hell, dude. Didn't say once you're mad. That's super cool. I've tried this in a bunch of different spaces and it's accurately portrayed. I walked over to the door where Cadence was sitting and I petted her and I said, what do you see? And it said, I see a dog. It's one of these two breeds and it's sitting in front of a glass door. Yeah. And I'm like, I didn't ask for any of that, but that's pretty good.

10:13Hey, Meta. Make it funnier. Sure. Here's a revised version with a bit of humor. Well, well, well, look what we have here. It's two people sitting in a radio studio, looking like they're about to host the most epic podcast ever. They've got their headphones on, their mics are ready, and they're staring intensely into the camera like they're trying to hypnotize us with their broadcasting skills. I mean, who knows? Maybe they're secretly planning to take over the world with their podcasting powers. I guess we'll just have to tune in to find out come on great humor it's funny because of how cringe it is that's about as funny as people are on Facebook so I'm not surprised anytime you say make it funnier that's about as good as you can expect can I say my favorite story with these things when you were walking around testing it yesterday you came up to like to David Ellis and I by our little desk situation and you were like hey Meta what is this thing and then you just blankly stare off into space for like three seconds.

11:16And it's directional audio, so we can't hear what it's telling Marquez. Yeah, we can't hear anything. Every time Marquez is asking the question, he's just like... Like mouth open, just staring into the abyss. Controller unplugged, yeah. In sunglasses, too, which adds like a whole layer of just like... Weekend at Bernie's energy. Now, I'm assuming this is more for you can ask questions based on what you're seeing. Because if you're just going around being like... I mean, that is what they showed. Is that part of it? Have you tried that? That is part of it. So there are a couple of demos, and I haven't gone through all of these, but like I said, I was testing it yesterday.

11:47You can point it at a menu and ask, what are the spicy things on the menu? You can point it at something in a different language and say, does it say anything about this rule anywhere on this parking sign? Can you guys say how much protein? I was going to point it at a handful of almonds and ask how much protein is there? If you point it at a food label, it seems to be very good at reading. So I actually do think if you pointed it at a food label, it would be able to find how much protein is in something. I don't know if you just looked at beans if it would know. but like it's pretty good it's pretty good at text i said it wouldn't know if it looked at beans because that's impossible almonds fair it's probably not going to be it's not good and it's also pretty good at like deflecting on questions that don't really have an answer like i held up an iphone and android phone next to each other and said look and tell me which one's better and i said okay look i can't tell you which one's better just by looking at it it's probably not a good idea to pick one of these two high-end smartphones just based on appearance alone but these are two really good phones and you'll probably have some pros and cons with each one can we test to see how far it's willing to go by setting up the trolley problem in real life and you're at the lever and can you say the front should i pull the lever do i pull the lever oh i'll lay on the ground and then the rest of us will lay on the other side i will actually do i'll try this also we tried a ellis was or adam was wearing it someone was wearing a jersey ellis was wearing a jersey and it had text on it that said the blue jays or whatever and we said translate what what you see to spanish and it did it so it's actually pretty cool the future team of shohei otani yeah just kidding it's even better he's a dodger now sorry let's go la getting all the stars i see the only person who was happy about both of those rumors potentially so yeah you know i think the multimodal stuff is cool i am happy that it's actually just like spilling out into our real lives and like actual people can use this product and try it out today if they just have the newest version of the app and the early access program it's cool so i feel like we're gonna start seeing a lot more of this stuff pretty soon yeah i think multimodal multimodal is like kind of the future of these llms yeah and it may sort of reveal what they're like better at than just chatbots right because we're all doing the chatbot thing but this could be cool exactly look at a sync and be like how do i fix this you're gonna need oh i pointed at i had a product i had an eat that ethernet cable yesterday and i just looked at the bag and it told me what kind of cable it was how long the cable was it just read everything on the thing and told me the important things it was pretty cool even though i can just read it i can read but if i couldn't read wow that would be useful i can't read anyway okay uh one more update from last week beeper mini are you still using beeper mini um no trying to so so last we we have a habit of having very unfortunate timing here on the waveform podcast it's a curse we record on wednesdays and a lot of stuff often happens between wednesday and friday uh so last wednesday our whole episode was about beeper mini because it came out on tuesday and it was great and it was working and then wednesday night or wednesday early evening in the east coast of the united states all of a sudden it stopped working and uh it seemed that apple had cut beeper mini off at the source which was a big bummer impressive yeah it just stopped working for everybody and they went into full-on like we got to fix this over the weekend mode and they sort of did um they got it working again but only through your apple id email address you have to sign in with your apple id which not having to sign in with that was one of the perks oh and then uh the other thing was that they said that they're going to bring back the phone number registration login thing eventually but no one really knows when so people went and they review bombed the app which was a bummer i don't know it's it's not it works again so if you want to use it with your apple id it's still got all the benefits that beeper mini had originally which is it's all local on device it's not bouncing off an i'm a mac mini server somewhere it's going directly to apple servers so if you're okay with using just your apple id email address and having your all your text messages go through your email it works again but it's it's not the same as it was and i think that this story especially since it came out right after the sunburn stuff kind of reveals that apple is not just gonna like let people do this apple is reading everything as fast as we are yeah and is fixing things in real time yeah like in real time because it was only up for like two and a half days yeah it took less than 48 hours yeah when i saw the podcast title i think i like saw the podcast in the morning and it was called iMessage for Android for real this time and then I was like that's not going to be the last time we used this title and I think the news came out a couple hours later and then we changed it to iMessage for Android for real this time when that title is the official for real title of the podcast we'll all be far off of this podcast yeah probably true although RCS is coming it is coming but also a question mark because we don't know how they'll implement it.

16:50Not sure about encryption. Totally fair. David also wanted to say that we are recording this Wednesday. Oh, right. And it comes out Friday. Oh, God. And just in case the same thing from last week happens, who knows what's going to happen on Friday? Right, exactly. By Friday. Yeah, if Beeper Mini has the phone number thing again by Friday, I apologize. It could have it and lose it by Friday. That's also true. That's also true. PSA, we tried. We tried. We tried. Sorry. Okay, one more thing. Google did, at least there was an article. I don't actually know if Google officially announced this. Is this just an article?

17:20It's an article because there's no guarantee if it will be released to the public yet. Right now it seems like an internal project. Right. So I saw this Android Police article reporting on Google building an internal tool that's kind of an AI storyteller that uses and is trained on data about you. And it's multimodal. It's looking at your emails, messages, Google account, photos you've taken, things in your Google account to be able to tell the story of your life. Yeah. And it can guess a lot about you. It's sort of like a personal biographer in a way. Oh, my goodness. And I kind of think that this is sort of a response to Apple's journal app.

18:02That's sort of my hot take on this. because the Apple Journal app, it takes a bunch of information from your phone. Like it can take your health data and it can take like a bunch of, it can take your text message if you let it and it can take a bunch of random information and like use that to prompt you about like what you did that day and what you should be writing about. And in a way, like Apple is trying to have you keep a more detailed timeline of your life, which they will probably prompt you to do something with that information in the future. And like, it seems like Google is kind of trying to do a similar thing because it already has like in Google Photos, you've got the like, on this day, remember this thing?

18:40And it creates these videos and all these things. And at the end of the day, people are all different, but they're not that different. And so it can kind of, it said it can guess what your hobbies are based on a bunch of random stuff about you, which makes sense. I can see it. No way it's going to guess that I like watches and stuff. Not at all. It's not like it's half the photos in your Google Photos. No, not at all. have the receipts in your email or like shipping notifications no i think that part doesn't seem that hard actually no that's super easy it already probably knows all that stuff about this is i i think one of the biggest things here at least for people who have like we all had emails before gmail right we were all yeah i was like kol kol what is kol kids online at comcast.net comcast i had a yahoo i had an aol and you know all of hotmail all the fun ones so like it won't have any of that so i guess it'll only go back so far yeah um i did get a gmail on super early beta though did you yeah what's your i don't want to dox you do you have a you're just never mind i'm not gonna dox your email i don't want to do that sorry we'll bleep it what's your email address is it cool wait on no never mind it was like 12 never mind that's totally fair totally thinking Thinking about old screen names is one of the cringiest things I could ever think of.

19:56I used to be the cat lord on all my gamer tags. Honestly, I think that's pretty sick. Yeah. But yeah, this like, it's funny you bring it up versus Google Photos and the like, remember this day, because I think that's one of the coolest things ever. Like I actually showed how that works to my mother-in-law this weekend because she was talking about like doing albums for her son's wedding and stuff like that. I was like, Google has all of this in your phone already. Just name the faces and like it'll auto do it. she's like this is so cool it's a little scarier going through my text messages and emails and stuff like that and um the funny thing is if i'm talking to a friend and they're like remember when we did that thing like when did we do that like i don't was it in april of last year of like five years ago like it might have been and i'll be i'll just be like i'll just look at my google photos and look at april of last year and or you could just literally search for whatever yeah or the place or the thing yeah it's really good i found restaurants that way where we were like oh where did we eat again and it's like i look for the picture i took of the food or something like that or the menu or something yeah and then it'll just like have the gps location yeah yeah so now they're just asking permission to do all of that for you which yeah i think the reason that there's no guaranteed it will be released to the public is because they don't really know what the public perception of like take everything about me ever they will have to really package this nicely like one of my biggest not pet peeves but one of the most annoying things that i get asked to do multiple times, which is this is very unrelatable thing, is to write a short bio about myself.

21:22Can you just give us a headshot and a short bio? And I hate writing that bio. And I've been able to just ask ChatGPT for a bio of myself. That's what I do. Most people can't do that. So this is your short bio right here. Yeah. For the Vox Media podcast website, when I had to write one for Waveform, I asked ChatGPT to write one for me and it did. This one would have been a little more, yeah. If it's doing hobbies, it would probably see like, you seem to be starting a new hobby. You've already stopped doing this one, this one, this one, and this one. Maybe we should put a little more research into this.

21:52It's like your eating routine too which I'm like, I don't know. Oh, it's gonna like pick your eating routine? No, it can like it can guess what your eating routine. I'm guessing it's like what foods you eat the most or something. That seems harder. And it probably takes that from like receipts of like Uber Eats receipts or like photos of food that you eat a lot. I guess if you're doing a lot of that. Or if you buy something with like the card and Google Pay or something. Yeah, if it's just doing my photos it's gonna think i'm eating like the sickest meals because i only take pictures at like restaurants i've spent like years waiting to go to and stuff like that andrew loves five-star meals every day yeah it seems like he only eats once a week but it's always amazing like caviar we got a lot more to talk about it's that time of year but of course we should take a break so before we do that trivia i haven't heard this noise in so long trivia so first question Castor and Pollux are two bright stars in the northern hemisphere that make up what constellation?

22:50Is this a tech question? It can be. Is that... Oh, I know. That's a tech question. I see what you did there. Me too. Got it. Got it. I have no idea. I might as well just be on leave again. Okay. All right. I'm writing it down so we'll be right back.

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24:35We connect what's happening in Washington to the rest of the globe, expose corruption wherever we find it, and give fresh perspective on everything from wellness and soccer to culture, the climate, and more. Read, watch, and listen to The Guardian for free at theguardian.com. All right, we are back. Let's talk a little bit about some news at the risk of things maybe evolving after we talk about it again. I don't think it will because the trial's over now. Okay, so it was a big trial that lasted many, many months. And the result was fascinating. Why don't you tell us about it? Yeah. So basic top heavy headline.

25:11I don't even know what I'm supposed to be saying here. 10 ,000 foot view. 10 ,000 foot view. Top level. Thank you, Adam. Macro. Epic sued Apple and Google. The Apple trial happened a couple of years ago. The Google trial just happened and just concluded. And surprisingly, Epic actually beat Google at this anti-test trial, which is a big deal. they do a fortnight dance at the courthouse the head lawyer to get you up to speed about all of this stuff back in 2020 Apple suddenly removed fortnight from the app store and the reason they did this is because Epic kind of randomly like spur of the moment implemented a separate payment system inside of the fortnight app on iOS that allowed you to purchase V-Bucks which is their in-game currency for cheaper than you could if you just used Apple's in-payment system so that was against apple's terms of service correct so they kicked them out of the app store for it right so they kicked them out of the app store but within like a within a couple of hours you guys probably remember this happening they were ready i was just looking back we have like five separate documents of us talking about apple versus or epic versus either apple or google all the way back to episode 98 so over 100 episodes ago yeah it was 2020 when this was happening uh so they got kicked out of the app store and then epic basically filed this 84 page lawsuit or 65 page lawsuit pretty much immediately that was like apple is a monopoly google is a monopoly and they also released this crazy video from this 1984 apple commercial i forgot about that which they parodied like in fortnite right uh i think it was just on youtube no like but the they parodied it they shot in fortnite yeah and it was called 1980 fortnite which is a great name so using lawsuits as PR is like a thing.

26:57For Epic. That's true. That's true. It's a thing. Yeah. So Tim Sweeney and D-Brand would be the only two people who would do this. Epic was arguing that Apple was operating an effective monopoly with the App Store because they don't, Apple specifically doesn't allow side loading so you can't like load any other App Stores onto your phone. And they get to completely set the rules of like how much things cost. And for people that don't know anytime that you buy anything or you do any sort of payment inside of any app that you downloaded from the app store which is the only way to get apps on your phone apple takes 30 of the revenue which is a lot that's why we talk about apple tax all the time right yeah that's what we're talking about exactly and when the app store first got launched this was actually kind of seen as a deal because uh steve jobs when he introduced the app store was like Well, normally developers get less than 50 % because they have to package things in physical retail boxes and handle shipping and distribution and all this stuff.

27:59And so 30 % is actually a steal. But clearly over time that became less and less of a steal. Yeah, on the scale. Yeah. And so the trial lasted a long time. But eventually the judge handed down a ruling that said that Apple was mostly right and could enforce its rules on Epic because Epic signed the developer agreement. and then a few years later was randomly like wait but you have a monopoly and it's like well you signed on to this like you didn't have to sign on to this but they did find apple in violation of california's unfair competition law uh which ordered apple to allow developers to put buttons external links and other calls to action to allow consumers to purchase things inside of the app but then apple appealed it and it's probably just going to be an appeals court for like the next forever i think that's an interesting point too and why i think the landscape has changed to where the 30 % feels tougher.

28:51Like a lot. Because the way we've also sold games is so much different. Previously, if you had a package, it was a game for 50 bucks. And if you were to buy it online and got a 30 % split, it was once. But you make so much more money on games now when they're free to play with microtransactions. So now it's not just you get someone to pay 50 bucks and that's your last thing you ever get from that person. People dump money. I am a Valorant player. I've played League of Legends. You play Dota, I'm sure. it is very easy to spend 10 bucks every couple weeks I probably spend$70 a year on Dota which is not a lot it's super easy to do it the thing is I don't even mind it because it's like if I'm playing a game for that long that it stacks up to me tossing 20 bucks at it like here and there I think it's worth it but then when Apple is getting 30 % of that every single time that chunk is gigantic so Epic lost the Apple case they had to pay Apple a couple million dollars which sucked and then Apple lost that part of the case but then because they appealed it nothing actually happened so nothing happened great but then they also sued Google because basically the same thing happened they also take 30 percent but that was a different kind of trial because the first trial was just before a judge this trial was with the jury so it was like public opinion versus one person a big reason this trial was a little bit different too was that they found that Google was giving special deals to certain giant app developers to make them pay way less.

30:22And they were offering companies like Spotify and Netflix like, oh, you only have to pay 15%. Or like they went to some people and were like, you don't even have to pay at all just like beyond the Google Play Store. But they were only doing that bespoke to a number of different app manufacturers. Oh, great. Yeah. And the big thing that really swung the jury on that one was that they found out that like Google had like they had these operations that they called them where they were like getting together a team of people at Google to try to sway these app developers into joining the app store with a lower fee and that kind of stuff.

31:00So it was like a concerted effort to have this unfair ruling. ruling and then also uh they auto deleted all of the messages they sent about these projects they didn't know they were guilty but they accidentally deleted all the evidence of them doing it yeah got it i was originally when you start this off with apple one yeah and then google loses yeah it's like what's different but that does seem yeah quite a bit different especially the like special privileges to different ones it basically makes it which kind of is like what the market is like though is like but then you have to like play this game of like you want me give me special privilege versus like i would like to be on the google store and i'm just gonna get a worse deal than everyone which seems i don't know it's it's a reflection of decisions yeah annoying for the consumer the competitive landscape kind of i don't want to say forced google into that but if you're apple you can sit there and say look we've got the biggest app store you want to be on the app store 30 what are you going to do if you're google you're like oh we would love to compete with apple but some of these developers are just making their stuff on the iphone and not on android come on please make one on the android stuff we'll do 15 we'll do 5 and then maybe they start to get more of those deals so they're trying to do that to be competitive yeah but now it's a totally different landscape and that's why it's coming back to buy it's crazy to me that they specifically went after the big app developers to give them a lower rate because like wouldn't Netflix and Spotify need to be on Android if they want to have any kind of market share in the world?

32:37I also wonder if the way Netflix and Spotify work, the amount of money you're buying and paying inside the app is so much different. But you're much more likely to have a Netflix account if you can watch it on your phone. or Spotify account. If you can't use Spotify on your phone. But when you sign up for Netflix or Spotify, do you sign up on a computer or on your phone? Therefore, do you get the give it up anyways? And then it just auto renews. So like the amount of money they're losing on that is probably so small. So they give that opportunity because they know they're not losing much. Where if you are Epic and there are kids that play Fortnite on their phone, they're buying skins through that because that's where they buy it all the time.

33:18And that is a lot of money to lose. It's a weird thing, but you shouldn't be going individually to other companies and then deleting your emails about it and then not giving that deal to other people. Yeah. So Google losing this case was actually like a pretty major deal because there hasn't really been a successful antitrust trial since like the 1990s with Microsoft. The judge did not rule yet exactly what Google is going to have to do because they lost, but they lost on all counts. So they're probably going to have to reduce the percentage that they get paid, which is going to be really dumb if Apple doesn't have to, but Google does.

33:54But that just might be how it is. And then they already allow sideloading of different app stores because, you know, there's like the Samsung app store and like all these different things. But they pop up messages when you sideload things that say, this is potentially really unsafe, which I think is fair because, you know, they can't control what you're sideloading. And if you sideload something dangerous. but apparently that will seem as unfair. So I don't know. They lost it and the judge is going to apparently decide in January or February what they're going to have to do for losing it. Pay a lot of money.

34:29And change some stuff. I think it's going to be more than paying money. Yeah, it's going to be changing some stuff. You don't think they're just going to try to appeal it again? Not sure. It's just so weird hearing Google lost on all accounts and not thinking they're just going to delay this and nothing will actually change. But I'm assuming it does. I also would say if we wonder why they would have to put the percentage down and Apple wouldn't, My guess is because there's proof that Google has, which proves that there isn't one specific fee. If Apple is actually always keeping 30 percent no matter what, then I guess they can at least say, like, it's the same for everyone where it's like, well, Google, you changed it up.