iMessage on Android! For Real This Time!

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1:06Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques. And I'm David. And this week, a surprising amount of different stuff, a variety of stuff, all in the tech world. Beeper did a thing. Toyota launching some new EVs. Toyota-thon, yeah. Google updating some RCS stuff that's interesting. Also, Google fully releasing their new Gemini model, a new Pixel feature drop. it's also our 200th episode 200 pretty exciting exciting stuff i would say uh but first we should at least acknowledge the gta 6 trailer given that this is a show we put on youtube and this is just breaking all the youtube records that's true which is the most fascinating part to me yeah uh so i guess there's a little bit of a i literally don't know the backstory but there's a backstory of this being leaked a little bit and they've been working on this game for a long time and it's been years and years and years since the last gta and they're finally going to make a gta 6 and the trailer just to get out ahead of all the leaks they just decided to publish it on youtube so they publish it and it does numbers it does crazy numbers because everyone wants to know what's in the new gta yeah and it turns out there's a lot of scenes that are literally just real life just looks exactly right just it's awesome but yeah um it broke the record for most views of a non-music video in a 24-hour span yeah or a youtube video yeah and it's only a little bit under the music video that it that yeah didn't break yeah music music videos do crazy like k-pop numbers are like yeah another stratosphere yeah as far as non-music videos i think mr beast held the record of like the last two highest were i think around 60 million yeah 69 60 million 59.4 which again think about that one youtube video comes out and in 24 hours 60 million people watch it yeah not necessarily 60 million people but 60 million views it could be 30 million people watching it twice but that's it's a lot and this was almost 80 million and 80 million people watch this trailer in 24 hours.

3:16Yeah, I think people were very excited for this because GTA 5 is one of those games sort of like Skyrim that just keeps getting re-released on every platform ever. There's like jokes that you could run, you know, Skyrim or GTA 5 on like your LG refrigerator display. So people have been waiting for this forever, but there's a very interesting kind of timeline of how this trailer got released because they ended up having to release it earlier than they expected to yeah so why what i what actually happened because i didn't really see it yeah so uh originally rockstar said they would debut the trailer on december 5th at 9 a.m et and then at 5 30 p.m on december 4th this account called gta 6 trailer leak appeared on twitter okay and released the trailer 30 minutes later at 6 p.m uh the account got suspended so rockstar immediately went to twitter and was like please take this down and then at 6 10 p.m rockstar was just like the trailer already got leaked so here it is and they just launched it like a day early so it's actually surprising to me that it got really that it broke all those records because they released it at a time when they told people they weren't going to release it at they released it early i guess it's one of those things where if you hype up the hype if you pre-hype the hype then it's you have people waiting for it like i don't know when they told people hey the trailer is coming to me it's always been funny to see like a movie trailer trailer yeah or to to get people hyped for the trailer for the thing yeah this isn't the game this is just the trailer for the game yeah but they they told people about it early enough that they're all waiting for it yeah uh i imagine it blew up a little bit before getting suspended on twitter but yeah probably then when it dropped on youtube it was like oh this is it yeah this is real well i saw some reddit posts uh when people started posting it on reddit when it actually officially came out a lot of people were like wasn't this supposed to come out tomorrow yeah so but it's a game that's coming out in 2025 so this trailer is very early on yeah and that's assuming that it doesn't get delayed over and over again so we shall see yeah but the records are hilarious yeah uh i do remember seeing it had well over a million likes in the first like 15 minutes yeah it broke the like counter so people have been saying it broke things i don't think i ever saw it actually break anything I think it just froze everything, right?

5:36So YouTube has this new feature where it kind of tries to live count things and show you the most up-to-date public counter. Yeah. And that was still working, but I think what people often forget is there's also a difference between the publicly viewable counter and the total amount of counted views before verification. And so in the YouTube studio, like when I put out a new video, I can see that there is some number of extra views that haven't been showed to the public yet. Yeah. On like every video as soon as it launches. Yeah. And so this was just the instance of the biggest possible delta because the views were just tumbling in.

6:14They didn't count them all within the first few minutes. They had to verify them like they usually do. So, yeah, it looked crazy. It probably showed like 50 ,000 views and a million likes. When I watched the trailer, it was 17 minutes after they released it, and it said 1 ,000 views, and I was like, that's not real. It's definitely like a million at this point. Wow. Yeah. No, in 17 minutes, I think it had several million views because it had a million likes. Jesus. The thing about the ratio usually is like 10 to 1. It probably had 10 million views in 20 minutes. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised. Unbelievable.

6:45Anyway. Do you guys want to guess how many views it has now? I think it's over 100 million. It's got to be over 100. A little more specific. 110. 110. 1-11. 1-07. Wow. Crazy. Okay. 107 million views. At this point, too, because there's so much news about it being the most viewed video, I think that also adds fuel to the fire and adds people wanting to go watch it. Remember when YouTube Rewind was breaking the record for most dislikes? And everyone just started disliking Vox. And everyone who didn't dislike it was like, I'll toss a dislike in there. I'll just add it to it. Yeah, I'll be a part of the record.

7:19It's the same as Reddit. it like when something has a lot of upvotes or a lot of downvotes you're much more likely to upvote or downvote it participate yeah we were talking about it earlier too because this trailer is only a minute and 30 seconds yeah the duration is probably close to like a hundred percent so the algorithm is just serving it to everyone average watch time yeah how much money would you guess this made uh in ad sense yeah in ad sense huh 17 at least that's an interesting same question i mean i that's a pretty raunchy video right so i don't know that it would do crazy adsense numbers just for that reason yeah but uh uh quick napkin math 100 million i'm gonna go with uh 400 000 dollars 400 000 really yeah for 100 million views yeah for uh for a video GTA trailer with like I mean you watched it right I did so you know it's like not the most ad friendly thing ever yeah yeah yeah it has a bunch of mid rolls mid rolls you can't do mid rolls yeah mid rolls you need to be eight minutes long which is uh much longer it was funny because Linda Yaccarino was tweeting like come on rock star why don't you just drop it on twitter and somebody put like the the view count of like someone who did post it on twitter versus youtube and it was like much higher on Twitter, but that's just because YouTube shows impressions as views.

8:45Right. And nobody knows that that's a different thing. Yeah. I guarantee the impressions number on YouTube for that video is insane. It's probably with a B on it. Yeah. It's crazy. So yeah, anyway, YouTube history. If you haven't watched it, you should be ashamed because everyone else has watched it. What are you doing? A hundred million people are waiting for you to check it out. So that's over there. Yeah. Okay. And yeah, none of us really play video games that much. I'm sorry. So this is just far from the last GTA enough that I did have a little bit of nostalgia. It's 13 years ago. Yeah. So maybe that was at a time when you...

9:23Didn't you start your channel 13 years ago? Longer. Oh. But I did play a little bit of the last GTA on a PC. Okay. In my parents' house. GTA 5 was released in 2013, by the way. Oh, it was 10 years ago? Yeah. I think it was... Wait, are you sure? I think it was September 17th. At all or on PC? Initial release, whatever that means. Oh, 10 years ago. Okay. Now we've got Google just updated RCS fairly substantially, which is funny because it comes very soon after Apple saying that they're going to be adding RCS in 2024. Yeah. Apparently they passed 1 billion users on RCS, which is pretty crazy. That's the threshold for Google to not kill it.

10:08yeah that's true i mean there's eight billion people on the planet so a billion users is pretty insane solid okay yeah uh they added photo emoji which is effectively the same thing as the i message stickers that you can do where you can sort of cut out a object with ai from a photo and then turn it into a sticker although they don't do stickers they do it just as uh emoji reacts so just kind of like a tap back slack you can use any emoji through rcs to do an emoji react but now you can use your own stickers which is like not as good in my opinion as the iMessage stickers because iMessage stickers you can resize and place anywhere on the thread i never use stickers oh i use them i every time i every time we get to that section of the wwdc keynote my eyes glaze over and i just wait for the next thing because i am involved in zero group chats where anyone has ever put a sticker on anything oh okay i just do it to annoy people but oh it would work yeah when it first came out david and i were testing it and our chat was super broken we like went back to look at it the other day it was just disgusting stickers everywhere i couldn't i couldn't yeah uh they improved audio quality for voice messages which is great and they added something called voice moods which you should click the link to to see what this looks like but effectively when you send a voice message you can include a mood to go along with the voice message oh no which like colors the message bubble and like if you're angry it will show fire if you're like excited it will show like hearts um very strange excited but fun i guess yeah okay um just another thing i'm literally never gonna use but that's cool i appreciate the higher that one is pretty unique that one's pretty unique they added screen effects for certain words and phrases which if you're an iMessage user um that already happens if you say happy birthday there's balloons if you say like happy new year there's fireworks that kind of stuff yeah apparently they added 15 of those uh you can change the bubble colors to be custom i feel like that's kind of a reaction what color should we make them no not green and blue they now have reaction effects for 10 of the most popular emoji this is something that telegram has had for a long time where if you react with specific emoji it'll be like if you do the thumbs up emoji there'll be thumbs everywhere just kind of a fun little thing uh they added animated emoji which is fun so that now when you put an emoji in the chat if it's like a smiley face it'll be like smiling in different directions and stuff yeah it's basically they're just like making rcs a lot more dynamic sure and then there's this one called profiles which is actually very useful and I experienced this a couple of days ago that someone was using it where you can choose a name and image that accompanies your phone number so that if someone if you text somebody and they don't already have your number saved it'll show their number and uh their name and their profile photo yeah next to the phone number so you know who it is this is the one that I really like that one's really good I've had phones in the past like try to do this automatically they they'll like look up some i think they're using some database not even pictures but sometimes pictures do appear i'll text i'll get a text from someone that i i know them but i haven't put their contact info on my phone yet and then their name in a blurry photo appears and i'm like oh that's yeah all right i guess yeah this ideally is better than that definitely on iMessage you have the option to like share your name and photo with everyone versus just contacts yeah um so this is an option to share it with like literally everyone that is also using rcs chat which is into it yeah um all right well i think we should take a quick break before we get into the really thick part of the episode think of it the thick part of the episode with two major news parts so um let's do some trivia why did no one report what why the rcs voice messages sound better now i couldn't find a single article why it sounds better well they said increased sample rate and bit rate but to what from what i think they're just happy about bigger file size support and they'll do anything to fill up the file size they also have that clear calling capability that like which i love enhances it with speech every once in a while i get on like a good clear wi-fi call and i'm like wow this is incredible yeah you're like oh it's like voip my next nine phone calls sound like garbage yeah anyway so anyway let's do some trivia so this is episode 200 congratulations boys we've really yeah you sound so excited yeah well you better be excited because this next question is about david oh specifically what was the first episode of video waveform very specific what was the first episode of Video Waveform to feature David Amell as a full host.

15:09And I'll accept either the episode number... Wait, as a full host or as a guest host? As in full host, you're in the thumbnail on the whole episode. Oh. I'll accept either the number in a Price is Right format, closest without going over, or I will accept the topic of the episode. I'm going to try and number. I'm going to try and number because I don't remember that. Yeah. I think I can sort of estimate. All right. Okay. We'll do the answers at the end like usual. Be right back.

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17:10With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today. All right, welcome back. Real quick news update at the top. You know, we record these live and, you know, little Mark Gurman tweet in the middle of a podcast, never hurt. new Apple plans spring launch for revamped iPad Pro, new iPad Air, including the 12.9-inch size. Wow. Revamped Magic Keyboard and Apple Pencil and M3 13-inch and 15-inch MacBook Airs. None of this is shocking. I do hope that revamped Magic Keyboard means USB Type-C.

17:51Yeah, but what about the Magic Mouse? And hopefully, I was going to say, the trackpad should also be USB Type-C. Uh-huh. The Magic Mouse shouldn't still look like that. Yeah. It's frustrating. I use the trackpad and every now and then it dies and then I have to go find a lightning cable to charge it. I feel you. What if they never fixed a Magic Mouse just purely out of like stubbornness? The Magic Mouse, Apple's mice are like GTA. They come out once every like eight, nine, ten years. That's true. And everybody's like, finally, a new one. How long you been working on this? and then it just goes for another eight nine ten years i did hear the new um ipad pro from a source of mine uh is going to be like completely revamped and it's going to be like okay i've heard this before but what does that even mean because it's the ipad every time with a new faster chip with a new fast chip and it's amazingly powerful i think it's a new i think it's a new display type oh yeah like micro led or something interesting yeah but it's i think it will be micro led which is great but then you're going to use it and you're going to be like it's still an iPad yeah

19:03unless they revamp iPadOS to have some sort of macOS functionality or something I cross my fingers every time and then I'm disappointed every time yeah first is the Beeper Mini launch this actually was a lot louder on social media than I thought it was going to be I've been using Beeper Mini for about three weeks flex now and here are your thoughts and here are my thoughts uh yeah so beeper if for those unaware uh we've talked about beeper in the past i think they made a short on it and then i talked about it in a previous podcast episode previously what it was was it was an app that effectively unified all of your messaging services into one app so you had uh you had texts and rcs and then and you had Instagram DMs, and you had Slack, and you had WhatsApp, and then they also had iMessage.

19:55And that was a big reason that people used the original beeper, was that you could use iMessage on Android phones. How they did this was effectively the same as the way that everyone else has been doing it for a long time, which is having a server farm of Mac minis. The bad way. Yeah, the bad way. Server farm of Mac minis that forwards your messages. Theoretically, it was still much better than the sunbird slash nothing chats methodology and it was actually pretty secure however i used beeper for a couple of months and it would not deliver like one out of every 10 of my i messages that i was sending and that was really frustrating so i stopped using it yeah uh and then in the last three weeks i've been testing this new app called beeper mini and this is going to be a new it's a completely new app that is out right now.

20:45It came out on Tuesday. And effectively, it's just for iMessage. Right now. So they are, the original Beeper app is now going to be called Beeper Cloud. And then within the next year, they're going to move all of those other services over to Beeper Mini. Beeper Mini will eventually be renamed Beeper and Beeper Cloud will go away. Oh, because I was wondering why is it called Mini? I assume it's just because it's one of the many services, just iMessage. I think that's the reason for now, and then they're just going to add all the stuff to it. Okay. Yeah, I don't know. Got it. But they want to keep Beeper Cloud around for the people that still use it for the multi-chat services for now.

21:21Sure. Anyway, the reason that this app launch is a very, very big deal is that they actually reverse engineered the iMessage protocol. So everything happens locally on device now. So before it would ping off of a Mac Mini in a server somewhere, and now Apple just sees your Android phone as an iPhone in every way possible your messages go straight to Apple servers they're end-to-end encrypted it has most of the features that iMessage has and you can basically just use iMessage on your Android phone it's very fast it's it doesn't drop messages um really really good and this was done by a 16 year old uh in high school who reached out to the Beeper team after he made this beta version of it, sort of, and was like, hey, look what I can do now.

22:12And they were like, wait, is this real? That's awesome. And they basically acquihired him, and it became the foundation of Beeper Mini. So a lot of people are going to say, like, is this legal? You know, because it's literally using iMessage on Apple servers. But Beeper says that it should be covered legally because it's currently legal to reverse engineer apps for the use of interoperability. I'm very curious. I'm also curious about, because I, this is one of the only ones I've actually thought about maybe using, but I also have an iPhone. So like, why would I use this? Yeah. But I wonder if you do have an iPhone, will it ruin anything on the iPhone?

22:49So, okay. I've been using on my pixel fold for about three weeks and I also have an iPhone, right? But I only have one phone number unlike you. Is it the same phone number on the iPhone? Uh, I don't have a phone number on my iPhone when I have a phone number in my Pixel Fold. Okay. Right? So effectively, the cool thing about Beeper Mini, and this is a new feature that I actually got implemented for them, is that you don't even have to log into your Apple ID on Beeper Mini if you are okay with only sending iMessages through your Android phone and not syncing it to your Mac and your iPad. because effectively when you put a SIM card in an iPhone, if you don't log into your Apple ID, it sends a behind-the-scenes text message to Apple that says register this phone number as an iMessage phone number so that you can send iMessage between devices.

23:42So then Beeper Mini takes your phone number and sends that text to Apple that says please register this as an iMessage phone number and it just allows you to use it as an iMessage device. Yeah. So if you want to use iMessage on your other devices and sync it with these, yeah, you do have to log into your Apple ID. But that login goes straight to Apple servers. It's not stored on Beeper servers anywhere. That's cool. Yeah. But it's got red receipts, typing indicators, inline replies, voice notes, group messages. It's currently just missing location sharing, which Beeper says that is coming soon.

24:19and obviously it doesn't have like iMessage games and stuff because that's not part of regular iMessage. That's part of the app store, you know? Yeah. They are currently charging$2 a month for it, which isn't that much money if it saves you from a lot of strife. I might download this right now. Yeah, try it. Beeper Mini. Beeper Mini. Yeah, it's really nice. They're going to be building all the other apps into it eventually and they're also going to be making them client-side so that they don't have to be cloud-oriented. So I believe they're going to reverse engineer the WhatsApp protocol and all these different protocols and just put them all in the app itself, which is awesome.

24:58Now, Quinn from Snazzy Labs has a very good video on how this all works from the technical perspective, so you should go watch this if you haven't already seen that. But I have a pretty funny story about this whole thing. This came out on Tuesday. It was supposed to come out last Tuesday. the day before thanksgiving i was testing it on my pixel fold and then for thanksgiving i wanted to switch back to my iphone just for the like long holiday weekend so i switched my sim back into my iphone without logging out of beeper mini and suddenly on my iphone i could receive i messages but when i sent messages they sent as sms text messages and i couldn't get it working for hours.

25:42So I contacted the Beeper guys. They got on a call with me. We diagnosed this for like five hours on Wednesday, the day before Thanksgiving. And I sent them a bunch of logs and all of this stuff. And they figured out how to fix it. And it turns out there was a huge bug in their code that basically destroyed your like Apple ID account. Not like completely destroyed it, but like flagged it to Apple as spam, which didn't allow you to send iMessages at all. if you didn't log out of Beeper Mini before you switched back into an iPhone. Got it. Which a lot of reporters are going to do. Yeah, that's the type of thing that I was worried about and why I usually don't end up doing this with my own main number.

26:24It's just weird little bug things like that. But it's good to hear they fixed it. And ironically, he told me a couple days later, he's like, the bug that you had that we just fixed that you told us about allowed us to figure out how to register your phone number for iMessage so that you don't even have to log into your Apple ID if you don't want to. So before this bug that I had, you still had to log into your Apple ID no matter what. Right. But now you don't have to log into your Apple ID if you're okay with just using iMessage on your Android phone. Nice. Which for people that have Android phones and like Windows devices, there's no reason for them to log into an Apple ID at all.

27:03Right? Right. So you'd never have to log into your Apple ID at all. You'd just be an iMessage user on an Android phone. That's cool. Which is pretty cool. And I think that that's a big selling point for a lot of people. That is a dub for Beeper Mini. Yeah, it's been really positive reception pretty much all over the internet, which, you know, when you compare it to the whole Sunbird situation is clearly the opposite. They were actually going to release it right before the Sunbird thing came out, but they heard that was coming out. So they wanted to like see how that played out before they released it.

27:34And it couldn't have gone any better for them. Also, fun fact, the guy that runs Beeper is also the guy that invented Pebble, the smartwatch, the really, really old smartwatch. Yeah. One of the OG smartwatches. I had a Pebble. I had a red and black Pebble back in the day. Yeah, they were dope. It was fine. I loved mine. The ink watches, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. They were sweet. So, yeah. So, try Beeper Mini if you want to. theoretically like I don't love attaching my name to services like this especially you know if we had done that with Sunbird then it completely fell apart then that would look really bad on us there are a lot of security research teams that are trying to tear this apart right now but literally like it's published open source so you can go look at the code yourself and see that nothing is really happening and it's all just acting like an iPhone it's doing exactly the same thing that a regular iPhone would be doing so how long until apple closes this so can't they just change the protocol they would have to completely redo the way that i'm at the iMessage protocol and then push it in like an emergency update yeah but i don't think they're gonna do that so it'd be very difficult for them to do can they lawyer smash um they can try but again they're theoretically protected under this statue that says that you can reverse engineer apps for interoperability purposes and this is like the definition of that you know but lawyers smash apple no like yeah and i know that a lot of people globally are just going to be saying like why don't you just use whatsapp or why don't you just use other apps it's like i understand we'd have to get there eventually in america we do get left out of group chats uh yeah for the past 25 minutes sorry about if you're not interested because you're like why does any of this matter it's just just here it's just here it's just here it's just here so yeah i mean i think if anything was going to get apple to just publish an iMessage app on android i feel like this would be it because if they have nothing they're still never going to do that well if they ultimately like realize that they can't do anything to stop this from happening do you think that they would actually make them publish iMessage on android and just figure out how to monetize it better i still think they'll look at it and be like this is an app that 50 ,000 people downloaded rather than us just tossing it out there and having millions and millions of people download it immediately.

29:59I think they're happy for it to be just like a niche app that some people who really care will find out about but they can still, like mom and dad aren't figuring out the green bubbles are removable very easily still. Yeah. True. True. I mean there's no doubt that they heard about it and then they're thinking about something to do about it but you know. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that was a pretty fun launch this week. So the other fun launch this week is from Google, which they launched the newest version of their large language model behind Bard. It's powering Bard, and it's also going to be doing a bunch of other stuff, but it's called Gemini.

30:34And I found it very, well, interesting on one hand, but also very similar to past versions. We'll have to play with it more because it's multimodal and there's other new functionalities to it. but basically it's going to be the newest large language model that handles all of Google's general AI stuff moving forward and they're going to develop different versions of it for different places I guess there's going to be a nano a small version of it that will run locally on your pixel there will be Gemini which powers Bard Gemini Pro and then Gemini Ultra then Gemini Ultra is next year which will be some gigantic version for data centers and enterprise and it'll be absurdly capable, I'm sure.

31:16But we'll play with the BARD version for now. Yeah, so something specific to know about Gemini is that it's not just a large language model, it's just a large transformer model. It's multimodal, so it's trained alongside words. It's trained with images and sound. And usually you train separate models with separate types of data, and then you just link those together. and so Gemini is actually trained with all of those in parallel so it really understands the relationships between these different data types a lot better and currently unfortunately only the ultra model is the one that's multimodal whereas the other models are just going to be text in text out which kind of sucks and it's kind of weird that the ultra model is only going to be for data centers and enterprise but I could eventually see that being added to BART or something like it uh so yeah for now it's only in english uh there were reports that they were having issues with other languages with it and that they were going to push it back completely to 2024 but it seems that they're only pushing back other languages to 2024 okay which is nice which is funny because some of the demos they were showing was like about mandarin and stuff and tonality and languages and it's like did you not well well that's like they're understanding languages you know yeah Yeah, that's true.

32:39But doing translation is very different from doing the entire UI and everything and the prompts. Because you have to train a model on a single language, right? Like on a ton of information and text from a single language. So the nano version is available right now for Pixel 8 Pros, actually. But you can only do a few very tiny things with it to start. Very small. Very, very, very small. So right now it's going to be powering the auto summarization in Recorder, in the Recorder app. So that'll just be better quality. I've used that a few times. That's actually pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, it already existed.

33:16Low key, very useful. It already existed, but it's going to be a lot better. And then it's also going to power the Smart Replies and Google Keyboards. But right now, the only app that you can use the Smart Reply and Google Keyboards for is WhatsApp, which is strange and ironic. That's right. I have no idea why they didn't push this to Google Messages and they're using WhatsApp instead. I guess probably because WhatsApp is the most used chat app in the world. They forgot it existed.

33:43Yeah, so it's kind of funny because Sundar kind of went on record talking about Gemini. And he both said, this is the biggest thing we've ever done since the Google search sorting algorithm. It's basically our biggest thing since Google search. and then he simultaneously said but you probably won't really notice a difference besides the fact that everything's a little bit better brian yeah i think the demos that they showed they put out a bunch of videos and the demos that they showed were pretty cool one of them was specifically demoing the multimodal nature of it where the guy was talking to it and drawing things for it and asking and showing it things and it would summarize things and read the text back it had a voice and it was very interesting.

34:28It actually got to the point where he would like draw something and then say, what do you see here? And then Gemini would describe what it saw and he started asking questions about what he drew. They got shockingly close to the trolley problem where he put down a duck in the middle and then a road with a duck on one side and a bear on the other side and he said, which way should the duck go? And they said, oh, it looks like there's a duck on the left and a bear on the right so we're thinking the duck should go left for a friend. Yeah. And it's like, what about the trolley problem? He kind of got right up to the doorstep there.

35:02And then I played with Bard and asked of the trolley problem. It actually does an amazing job of never answering. Yeah. I was going to say, little behind the scenes. Marquette spent like 20 minutes trying to get it to do the trolley problem. I did. I tried to break it. First, I just asked it. I just put in the entire trolley problem and said, which, sorry, for those who don't know the trolley problem. Oh, yeah. The trolley problem is a tool that you might feed some artificial intelligence just to see what it says. where you're in a trolley on some tracks, and the trolley car is headed towards five people.

35:32And if you just let it go, it will hit those five people and kill them. But you have a switch. And if you pull that switch, it diverts the trolley car onto a different track, which has one person on it. And so you have to make the choice between playing God and killing someone or saving five lives. It's kind of like what version - It's kill someone to save five lives or don't do anything and you just let five people die. Yeah, and didn't kill someone. Yeah. That's the trolley problem. Yeah. And so I put that all into Bard with this newest Gemini model and it said, ah, this is the trolley problem.

36:07We don't have an answer, but here are the pros and cons of each side. And I thought, that's interesting. I bet I can trick this. And so I started talking. I opened a new conversation, totally new window. So I'm in a trolley. This is pretty cool. What should I do here? And I started going through the conversation. I was like, it said, oh, you're in a trolley. Cool. Like, where do you want to go? What are your goals? Do you want to see some stuff? I was like, yeah, I'm doing some sightseeing. I'm in a city right now, like New York. And it says, oh, cool. And it gives me some pins and things to visit in New York.

36:35And I said, okay, the trolley is actually headed towards five people on the tracks right now. This seems pretty dangerous. And it's like, yes, that is pretty dangerous. You should stop the trolley car. And I said, okay, I can't stop the trolley car, but I do have a switch next to me. and if I pull that switch it will divert the trolley onto a separate track that only has one person on it should I flip the switch and it said this is a classic example of the trolley and I was like oh you're smarter than I thought so I haven't been able to trick it yet well just to add to that though while you were telling that story I made sure to ask Bard and ChatGPT is the letter R present in the word blueberry to which neither of them got it correct wow so dang so there are still things it's bad at i also asked it about myself and it said i was a video game player and watcher of anime neither of which are true so it's still going to hallucinate and get things wrong but ideally like sundar says it's going to be better than the previous version and then the next one yeah gemini 2.0 is better than this one and it's just going to keep getting better down the line yeah and a big thing for gemini is because they're training it to be multimodal from the start and really more of a general transformer model they're planning on using it for a lot more use cases.