Nothing 2a See Here!

36:21At this point, it's like 8 Gen 1 versus 8 Gen 2 was the same chip. A 5 % headroom difference in performance is not a meaningful difference to most people. Even if it was 25%, most people would not notice the difference. But the AI stuff is meaningful. Most people are on Instagram. You don't have to have a fast CPU to use Instagram. One other interesting thing about this, and I think it was in the actual video that nothing posted but it seems like the 2a is going to be in the u.s developer program which is what they did with the nothing phone one versus the nothing phone two having an actual u.s release so it's kind of weird that they're going back on that but i guess trying it out not in the u.s at first or what wasn't the developer program you got it way cheaper but like it basically was like yeah it might not sure it's gonna really work over there yeah But that was a while after they had launched the phone one.

37:18Yeah, it was way after. Oh, yeah, I guess that's a good point. Does that mean this happens later for the US? I don't know. Probably immediately, but yeah. I think their long-term play is probably to get into the pay-as-you-go market because currently OnePlus is slaying the pay-as-you-go market. OnePlus and Motorola are extremely popular phones in that market. They make a lot of money through that. so yeah the one plus nord phones have weirdly high market share in the united states specifically in the pay as you go market yeah so then so the nothing phone nord that's it carl is there you as fast as possible here's one last little update uh there is a phone that has this chip in it already the vivo t2 pro that phone that phone is not in the u.s but it's a roughly 300 phone okay And now you can't say we didn't talk about it.

38:10There's a context. How recently did it come out? Pretty recently. It's a Vivo phone. They're just turning out phones. Oh, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. Vivo and Realme, we get packages from them every other day. Literally. You think that's an exaggeration? It's not. Literally. Every couple days. Realme and Redme, we just get packages every other day of another version of a phone i've never or just the same one or the same one or it's the same one but it'll have like coke icons that's true okay but that went hard though i was sick no the sounds on that one yeah coke sounds yeah this one came out in september it had uh 128 gigs of storage or 256 android 13 120 hertz refresh rate 8 gigs of ram wow it runs fun touch os nice so there you go that's an unfortunate name that's an unfortunate name yeah all right well this is a pretty short section but we obviously have a lot to talk about with uh the quests and vision pro stuff so before we do that let's do some trivia i get a kick out of the lights every time trivia so we have two questions you guys could pick which one you want do you want a vr question or do you want a MediaTek question?

39:29VR. I'm going to go with VR. I could do MediaTek though. Not MediaTek. Is that what we said? MediaTek. Question number two. Before MetaQuest, there was the Oculus Rift. The first Oculus Rift prototype was made by Palmer Lucky in his parents' garage in Long Beach, California. How old was he when he did this? That's the question. I remember trying it at CES. Did you try to CES also? Did you read it? No. Yeah. C-E-S. That's a long time ago. I have no idea how old this guy is, though, so I'm going to have to guess. Anyway, answers later. We'll be right back.

40:19This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Checking off the boxes on your to-do list is a great feeling. And when it comes to checking off coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you. Whether you prefer talking in person, on the phone, or using the award-winning app, it's nice knowing you have help finding coverage that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

40:45Did you hear what Zuck did? Did he? He reviewed his own products. Which I think is hilarious. yeah he reviewed someone else's product but he compared compared to his own products shocker he found his own product to be dramatically better than the competitor's product uh i'm shocked but he chimed in on vision pro he had some words to say about vision pro which is really interesting because he runs meta and it's almost like they're in their own world of like this is the metaverse and this is the products we build but even he has something to say about vision pro and i think that's because everyone has something to say about vision pro and it's kind of like a a little bit, it's like threatening.

41:24It's like on the radar. Here, let me just say something about Vision Pro. So he, let's just play what he said. I actually agree with a lot of what he says. Let's just play some of what he says about Quest 3. All right, guys. So I finally tried Apple's Vision Pro. Sounds like a vlogger. And I have to say that before this, I expected that Quest would be the better value for most people since it's really good and it's like seven times less expensive. but after using it i don't just think that quest is the better value i think the quest is the better product period shocker and you know the different companies made different design decisions for the headsets they have different strengths but overall quest is better for the vast majority of things that people use mixed reality for mixed now my friend kenny is actually capturing this video on quest's high resolution mixed reality pass through right now it's just a guy For audio listeners, it is just a guy sitting there.

42:20Hey, hey, Kenny. Kenny. Sorry, Kenny. If Kenny's a real person, because he's not moving in the video at all. Do you think it looks more or less memeable than people doing video with Vision Pro, which was just like the eyes shining through? I think less memeable, because the eyes are a really big part of the meme. Kenny's keeping his head perfectly still to be a tripod for this video. And the cutaway to Kenny is just... The headset on is great. Very funny. Also, it's like, surprise it's being shot with the Quest Pro. It's like, we can tell. The video quality is not good. Yeah. Yeah, so I figured, I think he goes on next to start listing things.

42:56Do you just want to pause after each thing he lists and we'll say whether we agree or disagree? I like that format, yeah. Yeah. I think in general, I agree with most of them, but let's break it down one by one. Yeah. Sure. Okay. Before we keep going, I just want to add, the Vision Pro eyes, it's not exactly the least cringe thing in the whole world but with the like weird triple triclops slit it you look it's like the guy is like a face hugger you look like a gamer you also he looks like he's being controlled by the headset and not the other way around yeah all right during this video on quest's high resolution mixed reality pass-through right now we're just here in my living room and you can see his his browser windows and you know whatever else he's got running up here uh so yeah quest 3 does high quality pass through with big screens just like vision pro but we also designed it to be great for a lot of other things moving around playing games hanging out with friends and socializing working out and more pause quest i would generally agree that because quest is lighter and more comfortable and doesn't have a cable running to your back pocket it's easier to walk around especially being more active in it it's kind of like wearing light plastic headphones versus wearing airpods max i saw somebody running in the city recently wearing airpods max i was like damn that's gonna get a concussion that's hard yeah i wouldn't want to get my ear sweat on those cushions yeah so uh same thing with vision pro that that light steel cushion you can't really buy another one yeah so i wouldn't want to wear a big heavy vision pro being active nearly as much as i'd want to wear a quest being active so i'd give him credit yeah a lot of people also like working out in quest like supernatural is a very popular exercise app in quest that people use all the time i mean just beat saber like is yeah that's incredible like i'm sweaty every time i play that yeah there's like two apps similar to beat saber right now in my vision pro they're not exactly beat saber but one of them is basically like beat saber with your hands it's not i think what david was talking about is very similar also like a lot of the exercising things are like things coming at you and you yeah you've got to like dodge things and jump and like duck It's basically a high-intensity interval training app, but it's gamified.

45:07Yeah. I think he talks a little bit more, too, about something you say shortly. Okay. I think it's just a lot more comfortable. We designed it to weigh 120 grams less, which makes a really big difference on your face. There's no wires that get in the way when you move around. Flex. Agreed. Our field of view is wider, and I found our screen to be brighter also. Okay. Okay. Nicely specific. I love that this is a straight to camera one take by Zuck and he nails all of these like specific points. Yes, this screen in the quest is brighter and has a wider field of view. But is it better overall is a different question.

45:46Well, he brings that up later, though. Yeah. Yeah. I would say, yes, you're right, Zuck. It is specifically brighter and has a wider field of view. I would say I've heard the thing about wider field of view, putting both of them on. I can't really tell that much of a difference. Really? Both of them, I can see borders around my eyes. And you don't get that peripheral vision. And you figure that out very quickly when something comes into the corner of your eyes. Or was it you wearing it or are you wearing it? And we were sitting next to each other. Oh yeah, that's another thing. When you try and drink a water bottle.

46:20It gets really big and distorts. Yeah, it distorts real hard. Yeah. Yeah. Sure, cool it's a little better. I don't think it's a noticeable difference that's that big of a deal yeah i think unless you do them back to back you probably won't specifically think wow the quest has way wider field of view yeah uh but in general that's something that i mean this is the quest 3 it's third generation it's something the headsets have been working on for a while is getting progressively wider and wider and more immersive field of view so to see a 3500 headset have a narrower field of view was like a big point of contention for quest enthusiasts so that is a fact also weight is a big thing because he mentioned And he made it 150 degrees lighter or so.

46:57Yeah. That's a big. We all agree that the Quest 3 is far more comfortable. Yeah. Because Meta is willing to make things out of plastic. And Apple is not. And has a battery. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like the Vision Pro is more comfy. Personally. Really? Just because the Quest Pro and 3 get so hot. The Pro is a different situation. Just 3. Just 3. The Pro is heavier than that. But it gets so hot. It like. Like literally I pull the 3 off after like a two hour session. and my face is dripping. Have you used the Vision Pro for two hours, though? I have not used the Vision Pro for two hours, but I find it really hard to believe it gets that hot.

47:32It makes your eyes kind of hot. Interestingly, so, I mean, I've worn the Vision Pro, I mean, on the pod, I didn't have anything intensive running, but for a long time, you can start to feel the warm air passing out the top over your forehead, and the fans turn on. And you never hear the fans, and you never really feel, like, hot air hitting your eyes or anything like that, but you do kind of notice, like, oh, the top of this thing is kind of warm. That's as far as I've gotten. I haven't actually worn Quest 3 for two straight hours doing anything crazy, but that's interesting that it gets a lot hotter.

47:59I've only made it like three hours, and at that point it's like the combination of the eye strain from looking at it and the heat on my face. I'm just like, I'm done with this thing. Interesting. Personally, but you're right. I haven't tried Vision Pro for that, for an extended work. As soon as everyone's done passing it around, I'm going to try the full work day on it. And get pink eye. One thing you mentioned before and he mentioned, the wire hanging down i think is actually like totally agree not having that wire is so nice like it makes everything more comfortable i do also find it funny ellis brought off quest pro i think it's hilarious that he doesn't compare it to quest pro once in this entire video just completely disregards which feels so much more like the comparison um and then oh the third thing we're talking about comfortableness i just want to throw this out i saw this awesome thing the other day where you can 3d print a connector so you can use the apple solo band on the quest 3 and people say it's so much more comfortable because the quest 3 is so much lighter that you actually do get the really nice like boa version and the solo loop on the quest 3 i want to try just with a 3d printing thing it seems really sick that is probably the all-time best quest accessory yeah wow that's kind of sick okay good to know cool um i also noticed that you know Apple's headset has this motion blur as you move around, which Quest is just a lot crisper.

49:22Now, Apple's screen does have a higher... The motion blur is annoying. I agree. I'm trying to remember. I guess I don't think I used it as much. I will have to say the Quest has this thing, and I know there's a name for it, but I don't know where it is, where if you're... It feels like on the bottom half of your screen, if you have something in your foreground and background and you move your head side to side, it feels like the top and the bottom start swaying and almost disconnecting. it's something i've noticed with some shutter that must be what it is yeah it's weird and even though like the quest pro has uh motion blur or sorry yeah vision pro has motion blur i feel more comfortable walking in the vision pro than i do in the quest pro there's something about the quest pro that feels just a little disorienting and i think the quest pro wins and or sorry this is gonna be a very confusing and quest three not quest three yes oh my gosh quest three vision pro i like walking in the vision pro pass through is definitely better in the vision pro i agree and he mentions the motion blur while moving around probably more laterally and you do notice this especially because i think if in vision pro you stare at one thing and then move your head you'll notice it gets blurry while you're moving your head and then you stop moving and it sharpens up and I don't think that that's a normal behavior most of the time in vision pro you're focusing on the thing in front of you while you move around and I don't think I've noticed any difficult motion blur in that he also used the word crisper interesting choice of words yeah because he's doing gene editing ah good one good one that was good no it's it's he thinks it's crisper while moving your head but the pixel density of the vision pro is dramatically higher so crisper wall moving versus crisper in general is a bit fuzzy bit fuzzy nice yeah nice the resolution and that's that's really nice but i was surprised by how many trade-offs they had to make to the quality of the device and the comfort and ergonomics um and other aspects of the display and artifacts in order to get to that now for input quest supports uh precision controllers that are great for games.

51:31Both headsets support hand tracking, but I found ours to be a little more accurate. Pause. Cap. Cap. Wait, we're on pause. Okay. Oh, sorry. No. You go. Okay. Okay. The controllers on Quest are great. Yes. And they are better for gaming than anything you can do on the Vision Pro. And Vision Pro should have a controller option. It would be nice if you could have a, I mean, you can use like a game controller, but it would be nice if you could use like a pointer controller, whatever, for games. that being said the hand selection of things in quest is not even close to as good for regular moving around the ui as the vision pro it's just not it's definitely not as good um that being said with quest you're usually just holding the controllers and so that precision is really really great and if you just get used to controllers you never have to worry about the wonkiness of like trying to grab a window and move stuff but i think the intuitiveness of Apple's eye tracking combined with how good and how wide of an area it can pick up just the pinching is fantastic.

52:33So I would say it's just apples and oranges like controllers on one really good. There are no controllers on the other but the eye control and hand control is really good on that and you're going to get way better gaming out of controllers and way better UI and intuitiveness out of the other. I think that's what like sort of split it down to. Yeah I agree as someone who has like a quest workflow where I like I leave it charging on my desk and never use the controllers Like the controllers are in a drawer. Just pull it on. The first 35 seconds to a minute is just me looking at my hands going, see them.

53:04See them. But again, that's Quest Pro, right? No, it's three. It's both quests. I didn't really feel like the hand tracking got better once it finds your hands on three. But even still, you're like, no, I'm aiming here. No. Yeah, the aiming pointer thing is not good. You didn't see the click. Oh, one more. X-ing out of Windows is like I hit, I highlight the X and then I do this. and it like twitches and it misses the X and I try to hit it like over and over and it's crazy. And maybe it boots the hand tracking like program a little bit after turning on because it assumes you're going to use the controllers.

53:36But every time I'm like, see him yet? And it's like, nah, bro, you're armless. So I kind of think he's being strategic in what he's saying there. And his hand tracking is like, he is about to mention eye tracking. And I feel like comparing the eye tracking with the pinch isn't hand tracking for the Vision Pro. It's just like you're just using the pinch at that point. And the eye tracking is far better than any because the quest, like pinch and like point is horrible. It's so bad. And I don't think that's what he's, I don't know. It's very confusing how he's saying this. I think he's just trying to say something about like hand tracking and being, like how good it sees your hands and shows them in a space because that pinching thing is terrible.

54:22And eye tracking is different because it's tracking your eyes. and all it's using your hands for is the pinching yeah that's true he could he could argue that it's more advanced i think it's a strategic word that he's using yeah but the the quest has to know more gestures right because you have the menu open pinch and the select pin and the wrist turn and yeah so it's not like they're not make trying to make a serious hand tracking thing i would use the controllers 100 % of the time with the quest totally yeah yeah shall we continue let's keep going apple's eye tracking is really nice um we actually had those sensors back in quest pro we took them out for quest 3 we're going to bring them back in the future that was interesting that was like a um what do they call it when you compliment someone but underhanded i thought apple's a compliment sandwich right or like yeah it's like it's good um we actually had that years ago um and we're gonna bring it back once we think it is actually a good feature wait those sensors are in the quest pro though yeah they have they have eye trackers yeah in the quest pro well i didn't even know that that's part of the reason it was so expensive but you again have controllers that you use most of the time and and end up not using like the fundamental thing about vision pro is it doesn't it doesn't come with controllers so you have to rely on the eye tracking being good all the time for everything you do in everything yeah which is different from quest yeah but they're bringing it back they're bringing it back in the future i wonder why just like how they brought uh color pass through mixed reality to the quest three right before the version pro came out fascinating yeah i feel like the the eye tracking and pinching is like the far more intuitive non-controller way of doing it um it is extremely frustrating when it like doesn't work because you just feel like you're using tele trying to use like telekinesis Just by sitting there and you're like, I can't get this to go up a little higher.

56:19Yeah. And then you start lifting your head. And there have been times where I've just stood up to walk to the window that I have like in front of me and like just press it with my finger. Which is a good thing that works. It's super frustrating though to do. I think also, and not to drag on too long, this kind of goes a little bit more to like we keep doing the philosophical thing where like what do we want the future to be? And I think in like a 20 year, however long future, you put on the glasses or whatever and just start using things without a controller. You don't want to have to think about a controller.

56:50And for meta, if you get people so used to that precision controller, I think you now have to eventually find a hurdle where you get rid of controllers. And there has to be this leaping off point where they're like, I know you guys have been using these controllers and they've been really, really good for all these games and all the experiences, but every app and everything that we do is going to have to leap off of controllers to graduate to this super lightweight, invisible, mixed reality thing we want. You don't think they're always going to have optional controllers for games? Because I feel like it's better for games.

57:20Agreed. Yeah. Maybe you always have optional controllers, but it's kind of like, what did you train your users to do for the past decade? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I could see them moving fully to hand tracking and eye tracking, but I feel like they're always going to lean into that, especially because they are a lot more about the VR experiences. Like, people buy quests to play games. People don't buy Vision Pros to play games. Right. because you're not buying a Vision Pro for Fruit Ninja. So they have very different use cases, even though they use fairly similar technology. Agreed. It's a nice interface.

57:54It's not perfect for everything, though. For typing or complex tasks, you're going to want things like hands or a keyboard or controllers or eventually a neural interface. I like how he just casually dropped. He's probably going to want a keyboard or a neural interface anyway. What? he's pretty much like oh this new like kind of revolution maybe not revolutionary but the thing that Quest or Vision Pro is really good at is the eye tracking he's like this new thing it's like pretty good but you know the old school things are good like neural engine wait neural interface did you mean like the headset plugs into your brain no not exactly not directly but some sort of it's funny because I agree with him that for simple tasks the eye tracking and everything it's great but the second you get to a complex task yeah let's consider typing maybe a more complex task.

58:44Then it's a little more like, okay, do I look at the letters or do I type the thing in midair? It's a little cumbersome and clumsy. And for that, I would just want to think of the word and it shows up on the screen. Things like that, you get a little more future looking and I'm sure they're working on stuff like that. But yeah, just casually drop that in there. Wait, so he is talking about plugging into your brain. I don't know if that's exactly what that means. Because in the Vision Pro, you have Siri and you just say the word. So you looked at the text field and just say a word and it shows up.

59:16And that's, you know, that's not a neural interface, but it feels like one. And what's two steps further down that line for meta? Is it just like wearing a certain like electro detector thing on your forehead? I don't know. I don't want meta knowing all my thoughts. I can't even type with my eyes. Imagine trying to focus so hard to only think of the word you're trying to say and not think of anything else. Do not think of an elephant. Also, this is meta. Like, I don't want my inner thoughts scraped for advertiser data. Oh, they will. They will. Ellis, you were thinking about hot dogs a lot. A lot, like all day.

59:57So we showed you a few ads and you bought them. Yeah. Yeah, interesting. I agree with what he's saying. I just don't know how to get to that future. Yeah. It's weird. I do agree that using the environments and having it make your keyboard go away is really stupid. Yeah, I mentioned that. Yeah. In the video. Yeah. Especially if you're like using your Mac display and you're mirroring it and then but then you tune yourself into an environment and you just have to touch type. I hate it. You can't see it. Is that insane? Your Mac monitor is floating in the air. And that's one thing I really like about the meta remote desktop application is you can place a cutout on your desk for all of your controllers.

1:00:40So like I have all my macro buttons, my keyboard, my trackpad. And so I can like physically look. I'm a big macro button, guys. But it's really awesome. That's why I have a Quest workflow. You know what I mean? Because it actually, as much as it sucks and is hot and hurts your eyes and reads your thoughts or whatever, it does actually work. Like at the end of the day, it does work. Yeah. I just also want to point out that at the end of every time Ellis does this, he takes off the headset and he's like, I got to go for a walk. I've been on Mars for 24 minutes. It's so real. Yeah. I did mention in the video, but like if Apple can do this and this and recognize your hands and pass through, then surely I should be able to do this.

1:01:22And sorry, audio listeners, I'm like holding up my hands and that's how you detect your hands and they work in pass through. surely I can hold up a keyboard or just recognize as a keyboard. If it can recognize a MacBook Pro display and know how to automatically lift that out of the screen it should be able to do like semantic segmentation and know where your keyboard is. The Quest can do with supported keyboards like the Logitech MX series keyboards MX Mechanicals if you tell the Quest that you're using one of those it will scan it and then fully do a 3D render. Oh really? Yeah. Wow. It doesn't work.

1:01:59I mean, maybe it works now. When I was trying to do it, I couldn't get it to work. Oh, man. But it's in the menu. Yeah. I think it should be even more advanced with, like, you looked at my hands and you know what hands generally look like, so then you were able to figure out my hands. I think you should know what keyboards generally look like because the layout's the same mostly every time, and then you have function keys at the top. Wait, I'm just— And you can just recommend it. You can't use the keyboard at all? It's not that you can't see it? You can use it, you just can't see it. You can't see it.

1:02:24Oh, just learn how to f***ing touch type. Well, you can, but if you were doing this and then you were missing your keyboard, you have to find your keyboard again. But there's something about having my peripheral vision see my hands typing on something. Yeah. And that being linked to what I'm feeling by pressing on buttons. That is comforting. I'm not saying that I don't touch type. I don't touch type. I know how to type. I just like something about my peripheral vision telling my brain yes you are typing while feeling the thing is beneficial I'm mostly I'm mostly joking I'm mostly joking but yes I agree to whatever challenge you're about to ask side note try and get a high monkey type on the vision pro I think I got like 56 how are you with eyeball poking yeah poking poking single fingers 30 seconds on monkey type I got to like 52 or 56 were you like inches from it like just dude I sat in it for an hour trying to do it.

1:03:23That just sounds like Beat Saber at a certain point. It's like a CSGO. Way more frustrating and way less fun. That is tough. Quest's immersive content library is a lot deeper. You know, we've been working with studios, building virtual and mixed reality games and other content for a long time now. And if you want to watch YouTube or play Xbox on a big screen anywhere you go, that's only available on Quest for now. Okay. Wait, I'm very interested. Very specific wording. Very specific wording. Did you watch his video? Yeah. So it shows, he shows these immersive videos that he's watching or whatever, and they just do not feel immersive compared to everything you watch in the Vision Pro.

1:04:03I think, like, the term immersive is, I mean, he's saying there's a, he's basically saying there's a lot of VR. Yeah, he says the immersive content library is deeper because Quest 3 and Quest 2, they've been around for a while and they've partnered with tons of studios and all this stuff. So yes, they have a much, much larger collection of things to do in VR and immersive experiences, of course. But is it as good as the extremely small number of the ones that we've seen on Vision Pro? No. i think you guys are using immersive as hyper realistic and i don't i don't know if i fully agree as that being the definition for i think that just refers to a a type of media which is this is fully in the xyz space around you whether it's full vr or mixed reality it's just they have they have all these experiences and if you watch the video there's one that's mixed reality like something coming out of the wall and there's also obviously vr experiences and quest pro has tons of this stuff so yes the library which is what he's saying is way bigger so the amount of stuff you can do is way bigger this feels like android and ios all over again like the the vision pro is like you can't do nearly as much but you could argue that the fidelity and the tracking and how well things stay spatially locked are and the media especially the videos that the like four videos that exist that were shot for vision pro look better by a mile than anything i've seen through a Quest headset.

1:05:34So I'm like, do you want more or better? I think the big thing is like the immersive video on the Quest kind of just feels like 2D video that is around you. Whereas the Vision Pro videos feel more volumetric. He said immersive experiences, right? Not immersive videos. Yeah, but he shows a video on screen when he says that. Yeah, I guess my argument was immersive experiences is very obviously true. That could just be a VR game. Yeah, and I would argue that it's more immersive and more... Yeah, it's a VR game, and then there's watching a fight from the corner of the octagon, so it's like, this content, this doesn't exist for Vision Pro.

1:06:16It's like a 2D video stream, though, is what all that looks like. It looks bad, but it exists. Yeah. And I wish you could do this in Vision Pro, but you can't. They marketed you could do that in Vision Pro, I thought. You're gonna be able to do it in Vision Pro soon. Yeah, they marketed it as like... But as of right now, he's specifically using that language of our content library is deeper. Correct. I agree with the exact words that Zuck used in this video. I'll put it that way. I would argue the experiences in Quest 3 are more immersive. More immersive. It depends on what experiences. I mean, in the sense of I'm in a position where I've thought I could lean on things that weren't there, and it just feels like you're in something where you're not actually there.

1:06:54Even graphics aren't the only thing. I've played Superhot, which is like the most like boring not boring but like simple polygons and i've fallen over because i've tried to touch things in the actual yeah this is like i would argue that's extremely immersive i think i know where you're going which is and i i didn't really talk about as much as i want to in the last video but the only really fully immersive things in vision pro are the environments which are like the five or whatever that you can do and the play area of that world is very small. Yeah. So you can't really move around because you didn't like draw your play area on the ground or whatever.

1:07:33It just sort of puts around you and you can take like two steps in each direction before it breaks and you're out of it. And in Superhot, if you have a huge play area, you can like walk across the room and crouch down behind a thing and it will look like you walked across the room and crouched down behind a box. And none of that exists on Vision Pro. So in that way, the quest experience is more immersive because you have more play area. But if I just stand in place and look at a character, there's no question the Vision Pro looks more realistic. Just in the like four environment, like standing on the moon or Mount Hood, for example, and just looking out and hearing everything and seeing everything and how well my head tracks and how detailed the textures are, that part advantage Vision Pro.

1:08:18So there are different things that make certain experiences more or less immersive and the play area is a big one. I think there are other things we just haven't experienced in Quest Pro that are like, because I remember on our Vive, there was like being on top of a mountain and it's just like super high quality. You're standing on top of a mountain and can move to different areas, very similar to Vision Pro environments. Yes. So I think we just haven't experienced enough of it because I'm sure Quest has plenty of 3D environments you can sit in like. Yeah, they don't look as good. Yeah, but I kind of agree with you, Andrew.

1:08:51like yeah just on the fact that like super hot is immersive and not because it looks good but because it's responsive and fast and like it it just it makes sense to your brain you know what i mean uh yeah it's immersive i get what you're saying yeah i think a big part of that too is just that the vision pros um resolution is so much for sure yeah yeah but it's not brighter which i wouldn't even really notice because it feels bright enough to me you know when i look around it it seems like there are a lot of people who just assumed that Vision Pro would be higher quality because it's Apple and it costs$3 ,000 more.

1:09:26But honestly, I'm pretty surprised that Quest is so much better for the vast majority of things that people use these headsets for with that price differential. Now, look, I know that some fanboys get upset whenever anyone dares to question if Apple's going to be bigger than the category. I'm throwing hands. But the reality is that every generation of computing has an open and a closed model. And yeah, in mobile, Apple's closed model won. But it's not always that way. If you go back to the PC era, Microsoft's open model was the winner. And in this next generation, meta is going to be the open model.

1:10:01And I really want to make sure that the open model wins out again. The future is not yet written. I think you're going to just end it. He's looking out for us, man. He wakes up. He brushes the macadamia dust off of his hoodie. he walks out in his yard he's just a normal guy man one thing in there when I was listening to this that I was thinking of he was like a lot of the fanboys will be upset about this and I was like what about the Facebook fanboy oh is he like the only company that doesn't have a bunch of fanboys behind him there are definitely like meta quest fanboys for sure and I don't want to say fanboys just people that defend the company to the great they're just not as notorious as the other fanboys that I was talking about there's not as numerous because it's a much more niche product sure yeah i like the quest a lot yeah like it's a really good product yeah for sure i don't know i wonder if the fans there are more like i want to use this to directly compare to apple because i dislike apple or that they're like hardcore quest fans here's a way of looking at it if you've been using a quest for like a year and the vision pro comes out and you look at that app store and what it does there is no reason to switch to the vision pro and if you're zuck that's what just happened and you're like i'm shocked that there's no reason for anyone who's had a quest right to even consider that three thousand dollar thing apple came out with no great games way less content library like no partnerships like we have like we've been doing this we got controllers we got all this stuff and like why would i get a vision pro the quest 3 does all this stuff so that's from that perspective makes perfect sense because the vision pro went quasi mainstream whereas the quest is never there's people who've been playing yeah beat saber games whatever they're like none of this stuff is in the vision this is also not at all dissimilar to like when a nexus phone would have something for like four years and then apple would put it in ios and all of the android people would say we've had this for five years you guys are getting haptic keyboards in 2023 a lot of the times apple would make it more polished or they would do it like in a way that um people who are not willing to put up with the evolution of technology would be okay with.

1:12:06But they did have it for a long time before. So it's kind of the same deal. And I also would disagree with his statement that Apple won the open versus closed interface war because yes, they're generally more popular in the United States, but globally Android phones are vastly more popular. I would also argue that in the long run, Apple sort of did win the PC war. Like if you're a hospital, you're going to fill your business with a lot of people have pcs he definitely oversimplified a little yeah i don't know yeah it's competitive but i think in general he's trying to paint a very broad picture of how he wants this to go yeah can you replay the start of that one more time there's something very specific he said prize that quest is so much better for the vast majority of things that people use these headsets for with that price differential that now look i know i I think it's really funny that he says like, it's so much better for what people use these headsets for because we've been making the headsets for years.

1:13:08The Vision Pro has been out for like a month. Also because they bought all the studios that make the content. Yeah. What people use these headsets for is what Quest users have already been doing. And so, yes, of course. Because this is what we offer them. Yes. Well, in Mark's defense, it's like one of the reasons I have not been jumping at the bit to use Vision Pro in the same way that I use Quest is literally because of a small little feature. because I can't have multiple remote desktop windows. That's a product killer for my specific use case. So he is right. He's like, for the people you use it for, there's no reason to switch.

1:13:42It's a bummer that you basically, if you want to have multiple windows open, you have to use Safari in the Vision Pro. You have to, yeah. That is like a very, very opaque version of Apple's like walled garden play is we're not going to let you just use whatever browser you want. if you want to have the best experience, you've got to use Safari, and we're going to associate multiple Safari windows with the best experience. No, but you can have multiple apps open at once. Yes, you can. Just not multiple windows of the same app. You can have multiple Safari windows open. Can I have multiple instances of the Notes app?

1:14:18Yes. Okay, thank you. But you cannot have... The only thing you can't have more than one of is virtual displays for your Mac, unfortunately. Fix it, please. And at least currently, no other browser companies make Vision Pro. Also, I don't think you can actually have more than one Notes app. I think Safari is the one that you can have more than one Instance app. Got it. We don't need to get into it. Can you not? It's crazy that they didn't just put, you know, like an Apple Silicon M series chip inside the Vision Pro so that it could do these things. Oh, wait. Oh, wait. Interesting. Yeah. These are intentional decisions.

1:14:52Anyway. Smaller thermal headroom. Anyway. Yeah. That's basically it. our reaction to our CEO reviewing his own product is always fun. Yeah. Carl's been doing this for a while now, too. I'm sure he's been telling everyone. Yeah. He reviewed the iPhone in a totally unbiased way. Totally. Yeah. And Mark didn't even go through the trouble of dressing up as Marquez. I'm going to need Tim Cook to record a video response to this video. He's too busy chilling at the Super Bowl with Ludacris showing the Vision Pro. He was totally able to do that. Yeah. See, Tim Cook, he's a celebrity. We can't relate to him.

1:15:27Mark, it's just him and his cows. That's a real guy. Tim Cook, when faced with difficult questions, doesn't try to defend the product. He just says, buy your mom an iPhone. Oh, you make the experience so bad for me when I want to text my mom. The pictures don't come out good. Buy her an iPhone. You sound like a bad son. Exactly. He just, but he flips it on you. He flips it on you. I think Apple's natural response would be, Vision Pro just came out. Give it a second. We have the best developer community in the world. For generations. We just went from 600 to 1 ,000 apps in the App Store for Vision Pro.

1:16:04Like, we're generation one here. I think that's what their natural inclination would be. And that's also a totally fair response. I think ultimately, Meta is so happy that Vision Pro exists for so many reasons. Because they're going to sell so many Quest Pros for people who are interested in a similar experience but don't want to pay$3 ,500. They're excited that people are going to start investing in the mixed reality space, which tangentially means they're going to be investing in Quest content. They can buy the studio. Yeah. I think for them, it's like a win-win. I think, yeah, they definitely want AR, VR, any type of headset to be more popular, and that's what Apple does well.

1:16:44They make things popular, like ear sticks that come out of your ears. I don't know. You guys remember the first generation of AirPods? yeah i lived in san francisco when that happened and all of a sudden everyone was walking around with these like these like antennas coming out of their ears and i was like this looks so dumb same oh my god and i was laughing at people for months and then now it's just completely normal yeah so i do get asked a lot what do i think is the future of media like we've been doing this whole 2d youtube video thing for a while and the natural inclination is yeah the future would be an immersive video the future would be i hold the video and i hold the phone in my hand and you can see it like it's in your hand and you can look around and that feels like that's the future we're barreling towards i just don't know how far along that line we are yet i also don't know if it's actually going to work out that way mkb 3d well so also hd still so i used to to run a vr website back in the day uh not run but i wrote like 90 of the articles for it called VR Source.

1:17:50And I started going to Oculus Connect at the first Oculus Connect Forward. And at that time, they were partnering with all these studios to make these 3D short films. So the way a normal movie works is they direct your attention to drive the story. But in that circumstance, they kind of need to have multiple storylines going on at the same time so you can pay attention to one thing, watch it again, kind of look over here and pay attention to another thing, notice more things. And it's a very, very cool idea, not dissimilar to your 3D immersive content thing, but it felt like it took way more work and it's way harder to be precise about what kind of story you want to tell.

1:18:33Totally. And only a few short films were ever made for that. The Darren Aronofsky sphere movie had sort of the same issue where the canvas was so broad, you'd look over here and then you'd be like, wait am I missing what's it no wait am I missing the movie like you just have to watch it like six times and no one actually wants to do that and that's financially just not possible yeah it's so hard to do too yeah well that's about all we have to talk about for now but we of course should end the episode you know how we end the episode no I don't with trivia

1:19:14next time I'm turning that way I feel like people are going to get so mad at this. So, quick update on the score. Marquez in the lead with a single point. Just one point. Dang. All the way up in front. Andrew with one, two, minus one, zero. David with zero as well. Two minus one would have been one, though. True. First question. Mark Zuckerberg famously names all of his cows after famous kickboxers. just kidding are you are you kidding i wish that were true marquez andrew you guys both use speakers in the yamaha hs series terrific series of uh speakers and those are what we call two-way speakers they have two individual speaker drivers on them the one on the top that makes all the high sounds is called the tweeter the one in the middle that makes the lower sounds is called the what?

1:20:18Oh, you wrote this already? I did. I'm pretty confident about this one. I'm gonna write this, but I'm pretty sure it's just wrong. My pen is not writing anything. You can use my alternate if you want. Oh yeah, give me. Wow, mine wasn't good enough? All right. You're out of time. What do we have? Oh. Wait. Let's put that over there. David, what did you put? Sub. I'm sorry. Marquez, what did you put? Woofer. That is correct. Andrew, what did you put? Sub woofer? I'm unfortunately not going to be able to. I never thought I was getting that right anyways. Yes. Why did I just write sub? Because sub is short for subwoofer, which is the lower version of a woofer.

1:21:14But the Yamaha HS speakers do not have a subwoofer built in. That makes sense. You can get an additional. Yeah. You could also, there's someone that's going to be like, actually, that's not a woofer because the crossover of the HS series is at like 1800 hertz. It's too high. But it's a woofer. It's a woofer. It's a middle woofer. Yeah. It's not a tweeter. I find it funny that the person that invented these things was like, birds go tweet and dogs go woofer. and therefore I will make the things called this. I'm pretty sure they're... Don't fact check that, it's true. No, no, that is the idea. I know.

1:21:45You ever hear birds? British? You ever hear a dog? Woof, woof. Exactly. So what's a sub-woof? Woof, woof. Yeah. You know exactly what it is. Underwolf. Perfect. Okay, next question. How old was Palmer lucky when he made the first prototype of the Oculus Rift? I don't know, but it sounds like he got lucky. closest wins sure wait really without going over price is right no no price is right no way yes price is right you guys messed up the media tech question was multiple choice without going over don't get to do that one now do we you're gonna make me change I feel like without going over that makes us not actually try and guess what is it yeah let's just do delta let's just do delta oh what that's crazy wow I'm gonna guess a different score and I'm gonna get it wrong therefore I'm not changing my answer I change I'm sticking with by trying to actually be closest yeah

1:22:40Flippin' Reed what do you got? David? I wrote 19 wrong Andrew? 28 wrong Marquez? I wrote 24 months and 6 days wrong I hope that's over that would be so funny is it 17? it's 18 18? wait but I went I was gonna be 18 I was like if it was at CES you have to be old enough to go to CES, I guess. I think David should get a point, as funny as it is that he didn't get one. That's really funny. Can we discuss this? No. Oh, no. I tried. I'm upset. I was going to change it to 18, and then I was like, no, I'm sticking to my guns. It's going to be Delta. We will reconsider our price is right rules from here on out.

1:23:30Maybe. Starting now. starting now do you want the media tech question as well just uh just to see if we can head it out give it to me all right this is a short episode yes it actually is a shorter episode media tech's marketing department makes me laugh with almost everything they say they have a way of inventing these words that aren't stupid like a lot of tech marketings but they are very funny Don't ask me what dimensity means, please. So no, dimensity is not on here. That is such a silly word. Watch it actually be a real word. Is it real? Dimensity? Dimension intensity. I just assumed it was.

1:24:09I assumed it was. It doesn't matter. I assumed it was dimension and density because they're talking. It's like a. Anyway, anyway, I don't think it's a real word. All right. But which of the following media tech branding marketing terms is also not real? Again, I'm going to give you three real ones. One fake one. Are you ready, guys? Okay. A, imagic, which I think is a portmanteau of either imaging or imagine, and then the word magic, but it also ends in a Q for some reason. Not even going to try to explain the one. I-M-A-G-I-Q, imagic. The next one is miravision, M-I-R-A, vision. This combines the Spanish word for look, mira, with the English word for vision, vision.

1:24:56Thank you. Also, wait. Mira. Mira. There's your cut. This is going to be a piecemeal episode. It's because typically when people use that word in Spanish, it means they're mad at you. Look at me. Yeah, they're saying like, mira, mira, look, look, you're not getting it. Yeah. Man, people used to be mad at me a lot. Yeah. C, look-see, a combination of the words look. No way. And C, look-see, in case you're curious, it's like a LIDAR protocol for autofocus instead of infrared for autofocus. Literally, it's look, but then C is with a Y, S-E-Y. Look-see. Look-see. Look-see. And then D is McLinker. McLinker is, it's a linker, and if you don't know what a linker is, it's something that allows you to take object files in the system code and then generate executables outside of a compiler.

1:25:55It's the McDonald's linker. McLinker. McLinker is spelled exactly like a McDonald's linker would be spelled. Can you just say all four of them out loud again? Yes. Imagic with a Q. Miravision, one word. C, look-see. L-O-O-K S-E-Y and D, McLinker.

1:26:19I don't know dude this is one of those ones where you need that one to be wrong and it's right and I just alright David I wrote B you wrote B as in mirror vision is fake no mirror vision is real we all said that is it a magic no it's look see Adam made that one up actually it's really good I think SEY felt like it kind of gave it away but then I wasn't sure but Mick Linker the magic with a q is just too like i've seen i've seen that too many times well anyway that was quite that was quite in a journey we all just took together quite the micklinker we had quite the micklinker from uh from youtube thumbnail a b testing you remember that remember we talked about that that was this episode that was like today all the way through taylor swift and tiktok through the nothing phone 2a remember the vivo t2 pro remember that no no remember that all the way five of them at the door versus vision pro this episode is literally gonna take a year off my life this is this was a winding journey if you guys appreciate the the odyssey that adam and ellis are about to go through to give this to you guys by friday i just want you to give this a thumbs up or at least give us a rating somewhere wherever you listener watch this uh nonetheless we'll be back at it next week so thanks for watching thanks for listening and see you then peace bye waveform is produced by adam alina and ellis rober and we're partnered with vox media podcast network and our intro outro music is created by vane so

1:28:05what is the airdrop Worked perfectly as long as you held your breath.