OnePlus is Dead… (In the US)

17:39Marques Brownlee:The OnePlus One. The Sandstone. Sandstone. The hype factor. The price per dollar ratio. You could just say Sandstone three times. The Sandstone was pretty fire. But I actually think I dailied the white one. because the Sandstone kind of aged in its weird way. It was cool at first, and then it was a little weird when it aged. But that had a whole lore with it from how difficult it was to get the invite system, all the things that were happening with OnePlus at the time. But the OnePlus One, I'm putting it at number two. Can I guess your number one? You can probably guess it. Is it the 7T? It's the 7 Pro.

18:12Marques Brownlee:Oh. 7T Pro. There's a whole cluster of them in there, but I would put like, yeah, the 7T Pro McLaren edition is the best of these. But right around that year, where the 7 Pro and then the 7T and 7T Pro came out. These phones, I think I could still use that phone today. Obviously, the camera is going to be much worse. But like those, the software experience was damn near perfect. It had very, it was early to high refresh rate displays. So they were some of the only 90 hertz, I believe, displays out there. Super, super smooth. The batteries lasted a long time. They also did this thing where they were approaching like 100 % screen to body ratio on the front.

18:48Marques Brownlee:And that was like a hype number people talked about at the time. so they threw the selfie camera in a little pop-up camera.

18:54David Imel:That was fun.

18:54Marques Brownlee:And that was kind of fun, and it didn't seem to break very easily, so I like that.

18:59David Imel:One of ours got waterlogged because we tried opening it underwater.

19:02Marques Brownlee:Oh, okay. Well, the one I was using, I never did that underwater, and it didn't have any issues. The battery lasted a long time, charged super fast. All of the best parts of OnePlus, which is what had me recommending OnePlus phones to people, were in the phones of that exact era. and yeah I feel like that might be the phone if you look back at the last 10 to 15 years I'm pretty sure the number one brand of smartphone that I've dailied myself LG would be OnePlus yeah the the 7 Pro series you have bigger hands than me but for me it was a little too big and it had a lot of ghost touching issues because the screen to body ratio was so high it did waterfall it a little bit and it wrapped around the side and there were so many times I'd just be holding the phone and it would just be doing things on its own because it thought I was touching the sides of it.

19:50David Imel:That was a fun time of, we have to do screen to body ratio because it's a number and a marketing photo we can put up and we don't care how bad it screws up usability. Yeah, yeah. Send it. I like the 7T so much because it was like all the best things about the 7 Pro, but it was cheaper. It was like$499. Yeah. Had a flat screen. It was better in certain little ways. Yeah, I was obsessed with that one. I recommended it to everybody. I bought my dad one. That was a terrible mistake because after a long period of time when the OS started randomly changing and it randomly changed to color OS, my dad just had a meltdown.

20:27Marques Brownlee:Yeah, it was always an enthusiast phone. And it was funny because people in real life would ask me like, what phone is that? And I'd say, oh, it's a OnePlus 7. And they'd go, what? Who makes it? What are you talking about? And I'd say, oh, sorry, the company name is OnePlus. Yeah. And then it's the 7. So it's the OnePlus 7. And they'd be like, okay, so the 8, I guess. I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever, fine. so it was always a bit of an enthusiast phone it was always a slightly if you know you know brand but yeah man people i i have friends that got these that were also in the know this is always a good time i have a take that i want to mention about this um i'm also writing an article about where i don't think that one plus and u.s carriers were ever going to work they never got along they never uh maybe there was a brief wasn't there like a like a one plus 12 or something that the 6t uh sorry no yeah the 6t was the first phone on t-mobile okay and they made a big deal about it and they launched on t-mobile and it was a whole thing and then that lasted a few years verizon had one plus phones with for the one plus eight and the one plus nine right the most annoying thing about the one plus eight was that if you bought it at t-mobile it was like one price but if you bought it at verizon you had to buy it with the millimeter wave bands right and it added a hundred dollars which made it like not really a good value anymore anyway my sort of like theory about u.s carriers and oneplus is that like u.s carriers because of the way they want to do the subsidies for you where they slowly have you pay off the phone with your monthly bill but then they sort of lock you into that 24 to 36 month pay period um they actually want you to buy more expensive phones because then if you leave the plan and if you go to another option you still have to pay off the rest of the phone so if you're paying four dollars to t-mobile every month for a for a you know a 1400 iphone and as long as you're on that plan for 24 to 36 months it's like oh yeah it's four bucks for a for a 1400 iphone that's amazing but as soon as you want to leave to like visible or verizon or something like oh you owe us a thousand dollars now yeah and it's sort of this chain and so like carriers actually want you to buy more expensive phones because it keeps you on the plan longer.

22:43Whereas a$500 OnePlus phone, if you like eventually they're like, hey, you owe us 400 bucks now. You're like, okay, I guess. Yeah, less incentive. It's way less incentive.

22:54Marques Brownlee:Yeah, this is one of those things that I think we talk about once in a while in videos and maybe people who aren't from the US get kind of annoyed with it. But it's still true that here in the US, carriers still basically run like what phones people buy and what phones like sell the most. Yeah. so people go to their carrier to buy a new phone most of the time yeah so whatever phones get pushed by carriers get sold the most so whichever ones have the best deals who buddy up with those carriers will do the best and so that's why you see that the big companies in the u.s continue to do well because they have their deals with verizon at &t etc and uh oneplus was never one of those uh companies at least here so they never really got a ton of they were probably like a fraction of a percent of market share here i saw some crazy statistic yesterday there was a statistic that came out recently that three out of every four phones sold at u.s carriers were iphones 75 and there was a statistic from 2020 which was two years after the oneplus launched in t-mobile stores that uh the like 92 percent of all phones sold at carriers were either apple phones or samsung phones so oneplus was fighting for that eight percent against Motorola and Google Pixel and all these other.

24:08It's not good for them. So you can see why they pulled out. This whole thing makes our previous time talking about this really, really funny because there was that really weird article like OnePlus is going out of business and then OnePlus of India was like, we're not going anywhere. We said that.

24:26David Imel:I went back and looked at our thing. That was the AI written article that was, everyone agreed that like, it made sense, but it just said exclusive and it was a complete opinion piece. Written, helped by AI. So no one took it seriously. But yes, but then. Yeah, what's funny is OnePlus of India was like, we're not going anywhere. Because they're not. Yeah, exactly. And the rest of OnePlus was like. We specifically said that. We were like, yeah, this is OnePlus India saying they're not going anywhere. But like the big thing, the general gist of this article is like, Oppo is winding down some things in different regions because there's too much going on in the Oppo parent company, which makes sense.

25:08David Imel:Why not take away the regions you're selling the worst in and just make better Oppo phones, especially with the prices of everything now? Less SKUs is better for you. Value for money is still the most important thing in India, and in the US, we just don't care because of these carrier plans. Yeah, we don't have nearly as much hardware competition, which is a real bummer. Yeah.

25:26Marques Brownlee:Oh, yeah. Very bummer. But yeah. Yeah. OnePlus, no more here. No more. RIP. Do you think we'll get Oppo in the US? No, absolutely not. I don't think so. And the Oppo Find X9 Ultra is like one of the best phones in the world and I would probably be using that phone if I could use it in the US. Especially the way the US government feels about Chinese companies right now. Like DJI just got banned. Honestly, OnePlus was sort of their Trojan horse into the US in general. Basically. You know? And it just never, they never did the things they had to do to make it work. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's just not compatible with their brand ethos.

26:01Yeah. But there is a company that is in the United States that is launching a phone in a month.

26:06David Imel:That also has really small market share. That also has really small market share. I know, we get all excited all the time when the Pixel gains market share. There was like one quarter where they were 7 % of sales and we're like, it's going, it's going. And I looked at a chart yesterday, almost every quarter they have 2 % to 3 % of sales. There was one quarter where they randomly got 7 % and it was the month the new Pixel came out. Yep. so they're still not doing great that's Google baby that's Google but maybe this one will change it you know why it'll change it? because the new colors are fire yeah let's

26:37Marques Brownlee:well we'll talk about it all okay Pixel 11 we actually just complimented Pixel 11 on not leaking as much as we thought it would like a week or two ago and then like mere days after we'd said that basically everything's leaked so okay yeah now the Pixel 11 we kind of already know everything from the new colors to the design to the lack of a glow bar. I don't know the camera features, though. There's that. True. We'll get some AI stuff because software can't leak. Well, it can, but it doesn't as much from these companies. But from what we see, the design looks essentially the same as we've seen for the past couple years, but a new set of colors, which seems nice.

27:18Marques Brownlee:And then we get the spec sheets and the prices. So we'll get to that in a second. But what are the new colors, David? Because you're pumped about these. Okay. Well, so Andrew, you wrote this down.

27:26David Imel:Yeah, I wrote. When you say there are like two colors for each color, what is that? Okay. What's the deal? You tell me. This is the most confusing set of rumors and leaks I've ever read in my entire life. And writing out just the colors of this probably took me over an hour because the reason we have these leaks is an accidental Amazon listing. And the reason we kind of need to say that with a grain of salt is because even though it said it was from the Google Play Store on Amazon with Amazon third party sellers, like sometimes you can get something shipped by a third party that still will say like the company name behind it.

27:58David Imel:So like something can be shipped by third party, like a Canon camera, but still might say Canon under Amazon. So we don't know exactly what this is. But the way things were listed is there was the original rumors of colors that we had names. There was then the listed ones in the title of all these Amazon listings associated with their code names, which seemed to all match up. And then in the list sometimes had different color names. So I'm going to tell you the colors with one or two potential names they might each have. It's also possible that they give the distributors different names than the actual colors.

28:32Totally true.

28:32David Imel:They might have literally found who accidentally did this if that's the case. But so for the Pixel 11, we have Obsidian or Midnight Haze, which is like a black. We have Frost or Light Sterling, which is like a whitish, light, bluey, tinty. Yeah. We have Hibiscus or Fuchsia, which is like a sick pink. I mean, Fuchsia. Right. Yeah. Hot but dark pink, I would say. But isn't hot pink dark? I don't know. I would generally do it lighter than this. This is a hot pink saturation slider 100%. For sure. And then export it and 100 % again. Yeah. And then green, which is either going to be called pistachio or moss.

29:13I hope it's pistachio. I like pistachios.

29:15David Imel:I'm going to go towards moss. It'll probably be. Actually, I don't know, because then the green for the pros are also either a forest object or a food, which is the same as pistachio or moss. And then for the 11 Pro, we have another black, either Midnight Haze or Obsidian. We have a Light Fog or Sterling. So it's not the same, but very similar as the whitish, bluish color before. Dune. Dune. Dune is fire. Dune or Canyon, which is like, this is now a light pink, almost orangey copper. These colors are so good. They are really good. And then we have Pine or Olive as the green, which is a light. I don't even know how to...

29:58David Imel:I hate all of them. These two are very similar. The greenish one... Give me the black and that's it. You're insane. I hate all of them. You're insane. The pinks are really good. The pros are fine. The pro colors are fine. The pros are better for sure. No, I disagree. The non-pros are dookie.

30:11Marques Brownlee:Okay, this is my actual thoughts. You're ranking. All these companies do this thing where they have bright, fun, interesting colors for the non-pros, and then they have all these muted colors for the pros. Not true. And then Apple kind of broke out of that with this orange pro iPhone, which is crazy, and we're like, oh, maybe this is finally going to be the year of interesting Pro colors. But they're doing it again here. Google has this bright pink on the non-Pro. They have a green, a light purple, and a Sidian that's not really black. And then the Pros are like a muted version of all of them.

30:42Marques Brownlee:Yeah, yeah. But give us like a bold Pro or give us a black. And they don't do either. Well, it's almost black. Yeah, but that's why it's not black. It's a red sight. It's the purple regular 11 and only because it looks like Ellis' old mini. I mean, it does. Yeah, that's basically the same color as the 12 mini. I really like the pro colors. I think the green is very like Pacific Northwest-y sort of adventure color. I will unfortunately never use a green phone. What about the Dune? No.

31:13David Imel:I like that color. The green is funny because Green is dope. You're right. The pros are the muted versions of the normal ones except the green on the normal 11 is already like a muted green. So this is like how do we mute this more oh let's mute the i like the logo it feels like a dark forest color yeah it's interesting they have no sort of pearlescent option this year they've always gone like the white like uh i think the fog could the light fog i think that might wind up being a little pearlier yeah than this oh i have another i have another pet peeve i have more beef the

31:45Marques Brownlee:non-pro phones they always do the matte aluminum rails and then the pro phones they do the shiny fingerprinty rails because it's Pro and it's supposed to feel more premium. Didn't they flip that last year, though? Maybe, but it looks like they're going to do that again this time. The Pros have the shiny rails and the non-Pros have matte rails. And that is a bummer.

32:04David Imel:I'm glad they're doing colors, but maybe it's just a me thing, but I'm not a fan of any of these colors. Adam, hold up your phone. He's on an iPhone now. We can't trust him. He's a shill. Silver iPhone. Also, real quick, the 11 Pro full colors are... obsidian midnight haze or green yeah i like the rails on this screen better is that the same maybe it is the same you just see more of it because of the camera bump and the corners last year they did blue right for the color one i don't i'm pretty sure they did yeah um for the color names i'm pretty sure they're probably going to go with obsidian frost uh these are names that they've used in the past so i imagine that they will just stick with those names fog and they especially when the colors match the other accessories that they have like the pixel band accessories and stuff like the greenish one is called fog you know i think that they just try to stick with that across the line so i don't think they're going to be changing the name

33:02Marques Brownlee:significantly yeah but now here's the slightly worse news uh all the way worse all the specs and prices have also leaked from this so if we are to believe these specs and prices then what's happening is the base pixel 11 will start now at double 256 gigs but it also now starts at 900 and goes up from there uh so pixel 11 pro will start at 256 with 12 gigs of ram it will be 1100 i mean it's they all have to get ram's 12 gigs of ram it's not nothing but $1 ,200 for Pixel 11 Pro and$1 ,300 for the 11 Pro XL. Wow,$1 ,300 for a Pixel. I thought Google just got$800 million from Epic Games. Why are they charging this much?

33:49Marques Brownlee:The rest of the specs do appear to be pretty much in line with last year. Batteries get a tiny bit of a bump, like 13 megapixel front camera is the same. No, it's not.

33:59David Imel:The Pro had a 42 megapixel front-facing camera. Oh, really? Yeah. Pixel 10 Pro had a nice front-facing camera. Yeah. Yeah. And they made a big deal about it. And now they made it worse. Now, these are neat specs.

34:15Marques Brownlee:We're not totally sure. Correct. But 120 hertz OLEDs across the board, similar sizes. And then the Pro Phone will start at$1 ,900. Pro Fold. Pro Fold, sorry. We'll start at$1 ,900. $1 ,900? Yeah.

34:30David Imel:That's going to look like a steal next to the Apple Fold. That's true. that's gonna be$24.99 plus a couple of funny things the pixel 11 has a better battery than the pixel 11 pro yeah um yeah the selfie cameras are worse the and yeah these these prices are you know last year they had the chance to make things right and this year obviously there are ram things but i'm not going to let them use that as an excuse because$900 for 256 base is wild. It's dumb. Yeah, so it's awful. But the iPhone, at least last year, got to be like, we cared about you guys for a little bit. Pixel just spit in your face.

35:10On the 11 Pro versus 11, it's$200 more. Are you just getting the Tele lens and that's it?

35:16Marques Brownlee:That's typically the only difference, yeah. Which is why I keep saying it's hard to sell people on that. It's the same size. Something else, too. Often it's like a brighter display and a couple other small HDR-related things that are small tweaks for the Pro. Brighter display, yeah. But yeah, it's a slightly smaller battery because you have slightly more camera. This leak, though, says that the 11 Pro is lighter than the 11, which is very weird. Less battery? Could be the materials. Oh yeah, less battery. Less battery. Yeah, but not by a lot. How much does 100 million amp hours weigh?

35:46David Imel:I mean, if we're talking about inside of a phone, it's probably one of the more dense things. They're just electrons. They can't weigh that much.

35:53Marques Brownlee:The things we don't know about the Pixel are how good is the new Tensor chip and what sort of new features will that unlock? That is kind of the only way that I think that they can sell me on these phones being like substantially new in any way.

36:07David Imel:I don't have the leak and I can tell you that already. Not much better and something that will be available on all the other pixels three months after.

36:13Marques Brownlee:Yeah, I have had this optimism before for pixels and it has not worked out for me. So I am not gonna cross my fingers or hold my breath, but that is the thing that we don't know yet is what are they gonna show on stage? Oh, Tensor has more TPU, more AI features, more stuff that you can't do on the previous phones until six months later we'll see but that's what we don't know i did see a report that the new um the new gemma model is like being optimized for tensor on the pixel 10 and above so it's possible they have more tpu accelerators stuff like that but as far as what actual features this makes better whether or not it's um you know google photos features or whatever and then it'll probably yeah just all go to the cloud and everyone

36:55David Imel:will have in three months well this feels like if you upgrade from a pixel 10 pro to a pixel 11 pro you get a worse phone pixel 10 pro to 11 the selfie camera's phone but who's up worse upgrading from a 10 pro to an 11 pro possibly but then why wouldn't you upgrade from a pixel 9 pro to a pixel 10 pro that's you like cheaper and on sale that's probably the better move yeah this is i mean maybe there's some other stuff we don't know but usually the stuff we don't know is software features that go to another phone later anyways yeah very curious well there's a new samsung flex titanium display technology that is apparently allegedly going to be used in the fold 8 and the fold 8 ultra um in previous samsung galaxy folds they have used a plastic backing material against the oled and they have reportedly developed a new flex titanium which swaps the plastic support stack that used to be under the OLED panel with a new titanium alloy film, which Samsung is claiming has about 20 times the mechanical stiffness of the old polymer.

38:01Great. Wait, what does this do? So there's a couple things it does. Yeah.

38:07Marques Brownlee:I guess I'm assuming this is basically, ideally going to bring the hinge creaselessness of whatever new Fold comes out up to the level of what we just saw with, I want to get the name right, the Oppo Find N6. Is that what it's called? The Fold? I don't know. The best foldable, peak foldable, find N6, which we've seen that one. It's like a super impressive lack of a hinge crease when you're actually using it. So it's beautiful. And Samsung's now, we look at it side by side, and we're like, oh, Samsung actually does kind of still have a crease. So they have essentially directly responded to it by also doing the same thing, putting metal right behind that little crease and flattening it out.

38:44Marques Brownlee:Yeah. Hopefully it works. It's supposed to make it a lot stronger too. I will say almost everyone I know who has a flip after about a year to a year and a half uh the crease in the center cracks so apparently this should not crack theoretically hopefully on god for real this time um and yeah it's supposed to be a lot more flat and stable right now when the uh when you unfold it there's like a little dip in the center and that's just because the plastic support cannot actually like it's not stiff enough to keep it flat. This is supposed to be much more stiff. Also, because they are using this material now, they don't have to put reinforcement layers on the display, which means that there are less layers between the OLED and your eyes.

39:29So they say that they don't have to put as much power in order to achieve the same brightness because there is less diffusion happening on top of the OLED. How much power that actually saves, I'm not totally sure. This could just be their marketing spin.

39:42Marques Brownlee:But any little, it's like an electric car, like any little efficiency improvement will take it because these phones don't have the biggest batteries for sure yeah for sure so we should be seeing that um yeah next time the next podcast we'll be talking exactly about these things we'll know everything about them so everything everything everything yes no yes the next podcast will be doing a game show oh oh yeah yeah where we talk about everything from samsung right a day early yeah the next podcast is trivia extravaganza that's right, baby. Finally. Finally. Finally. Finally. And then the next, next podcast will be everything.

40:17David Imel:It's trivia extravaganza too. Yeah. Electric boogaloo. The trivany. The trivany. Yeah, so, um, well, the next real, regular, not real, the next regular scheduled show you'll be hearing. Wow, tell us how you really feel, baby. Okay, it's only real. Minus five points. If I win, okay. I think what he's trying to say is everyone should hit the subscribe button to know when both of those podcasts are out. That's true. You want to know. You just want to click. Yeah, so that should be interesting and exciting. We are going to learn more about that next week. Speaking of learning more about things,

40:49Marques Brownlee:you know that always happens when we do trivia. See what I did there?

40:56David Imel:I was going to say, I try and forget all the ones I get wrong because they just make me mad instead. True. It's a lot. You learn temporarily. Pete Lau, who founded OnePlus, right? Okay, I wasn't sure if he was the OG guy or if he came on later. But anyway, Pete Lau, when describing his aspirations for OnePlus, all the way back in 2014, 12 years ago, said that he wanted OnePlus to be which Japanese minimalist home goods brand, but for the tech industry.

41:24Marques Brownlee:I feel like I read this recently. What did he say? He wanted OnePlus to be... He said he wanted it to be the blank of the tech industry. Fujifilm. And it's a Japanese minimalist home goods store known for not putting their logo on any of their products. World market. Trader Joe's. Well, like we said, we will either get the answers right or we will learn something new. Answers will be at the end, like usual. We'll be right back.

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44:06David Imel:I'm Neil Apatel, editor-in-chief of The Verge, and Decoder is my show about big ideas and other problems. Today we've got the first of a two-part series on the systems that run the world. I'm talking with Bart Butler, the CTO of Proton, a company that makes private and secure productivity software. It's impossible to create a backdoor that can only be used by the good guys. No company is going to go to jail for you. Often the response is, well, if you change the legal foundation here, we will leave. Yeah. How real is that? It's dead serious. With all due respect to Swiss authorities and everybody else, I think it would be suicidal to continue down this path.

44:46David Imel:Subscribe wherever you get your podcast. This series is presented by Comcast Business. All right, welcome back. This is my fourth time trying to get us back into the episode, but Apple is suing open AI and that's fun. And they're doing it for stealing trade secrets. And the more allegedly allegedly allegedly allegedly, but the alleged stories are very funny. So we're going to tell you some of them. we just posted a skit to the main channel called apple's winning the ai race and at the end we kind of posed this question of what do you think is more likely do you think apple will create good enough ai to make people stick with the iphone if people are looking for ais or do you think someone like an ai company will make a good enough piece of hardware like a phone to make people switch off of iphones and the first one yeah i agree but apparently open ai didn't and their best thought was, well, let's just steal the iPhone pretty much.

45:35David Imel:In a suit filed last week, the iPhone maker alleges that OpenAI asked former Apple employees, even potential recruits, to bring information about unreleased products. They also are claiming that OpenAI instructed hires on how to evade security procedures. I'll get to that in a second. That's a really funny image, though, of someone

45:53Marques Brownlee:being like, hey, your interview with OpenAI is tomorrow. Oh, what did they tell you to bring? Bring my resume, bring trade secrets from Apple.

46:01David Imel:Did you read the rest of what I wrote? Because it's worse somehow. Somehow worse? Okay. Okay. Everything I'm going to do here is basically... Allegedly. Well, yes, allegedly. But things I pulled from... There's a Bloomberg article. There's an Ars Technica article. Everyone covered this. I'm just going to tell you some of the things that OpenAI is allegedly doing. Because some of them are wild. So one of the crazier things I read is that Tang Yu Tan, a formal Apple VP of the iPhone and Apple Watch product design. He was there for 29 years, by the way. He is now the chief hardware officer at OpenAI.

46:36David Imel:He, I mean, like, first of all, you can swap. Tech swaps jobs all the time. We're all used to that. But in the suit, it's alleging that... Is it a three-piece suit? This man became the chief hardware officer at a company that makes no hardware. Well, they're working on it. Apple's alleging that he took information about Apple's suppliers to him with OpenAI and encourages interviewees at OpenAI to divulge confidential company information. He has, quote, directed job candidates still working for Apple to bring in actual parts from Apple to their interviews for show-and-tell sessions. What? Okay, that's hilarious.

47:15David Imel:Unrelated to the show-and-tell session we'll be doing later in this episode. Yes, yeah. That's true. And then, yeah. I'm bringing in trade secrets. No, I'm bringing in the physical products. I got my MacBook. He's relied on his insider knowledge, like knowing project secret code names to have Apple employees in their interviews discuss unreleased products. He also has used internal, allegedly used internal Apple documents to create a checklist to help departing Apple employees circumvent security measures while bringing those trade secrets. Messy. Some of that is the show and tell thing is hilarious.

47:55Marques Brownlee:That show and tell thing is like a par. It almost reads like an onion article. Yes. Yeah, it is. I'm sure that there are like very specific things that Apple makes you sign to work there. And then like once you leave, like you're not allowed to disclose a bunch of that stuff. But there also is probably a gray area that OpenAI is clearly going past. But there's probably a gray area of like, well, the reason why OpenAI wants to hire you is because of your expertise. and the places you work. That's how hiring works. But then they're just kind of being way more over the line about it where they're like, yeah, bring all the, bring the folders from your desk at Apple when you come to work here.

48:32Marques Brownlee:Like stuff like that. OpenAI has also hired over 400 people from Apple and they have gutted so many teams at Apple that they have had to completely rehire for different organizations because so many people left to OpenAI. Yeah. Here's a little inside baseball is like the number one most common pitch I see in my inbox for companies that think that they're about to get a bunch of investment is we have a bunch of people that came from Apple. That's the golden words that you need to be able to say to get people to be interested in your startup. Humane. It's not new. This is not a new strategy. So yes, inevitably, you're going to get a lot of people who are poached from Apple to go to this new place because they're promised a way bigger role and the ability to shape some crazy new thing and you're taking a risk but yeah that is clearly over it's tricky because uh during the biden administration they put forward a bunch of legislation that made it so they could not stop uh they could not make you sign agreements that say i cannot work at these tech companies two years yeah non-competes basically and they made it so they can't do that because then you're basically trapped at a corporation and then you can't have a job for two years which is insane but on the other side of that coin it's like even if you don't explicitly bring trade secrets it's not like they can take the information out of your brain you know what I mean and it's very very very difficult to not use that similar information or similar knowledge it's part of who you are it's like okay I want to use the sports analogy for this one because it's helped me sympathize not sympathize but understand when you are an unrestricted free agent.

50:16Marques Brownlee:Is this basketball again? Any sport. Any team sport. There are players that play for some teams who've played against other teams. And one team will win the championship. And then the next year, they're a free agent. They just won the championship. And a competing team might go, we would like to make a trade to get that guy. Because he's a good basketball player. But also because we know we're going to have to beat that team again next year. and he knows all their plays. He knows the way they run and the way they're coached and all the secrets that they have. And I'm not going to ask him outright to be like, hey, we want to trade for you.

50:52Marques Brownlee:Like, are you going to give us the playbook from your team? But it kind of just comes with the package. Like, that's part of who you are as a basketball player. He also wants to win. Yeah. It's competitive. They brought in the actual thing. Yeah, yeah. It's so different. That's not what we're talking about. I think that's what I'm saying. That's not what we're talking about. Open eyes over the line. But in any other, like, the hiring situation that that's that's like part of the story of like who you're hiring i think the

51:14David Imel:better analogy here is like formula one and being like oh lewis hamilton or adrian newey is up and we're gonna sign him at smr and he brings in a wealth of knowledge of developing the car yeah that's something they can expect this would be like adrian newey showing up with the blueprints the the front wing and being like in his interview like this is what's helping us him driving to work on his first day in the old car like yeah uh apple is also alleging that lou left Apple on January 22nd, 2026, never returned at least one company laptop, and he texted a formal colleague still at Apple, writing, lol, I found out I can access the network storage.

51:52So funny. Her reply was, I'm ready.

51:56David Imel:And then she left Apple and went to OpenAI after. Wow. They do have some, they got some dirt, I'm gonna say. Yeah, the text trails her. Yeah, he like used some bug through it and can still access, could still access the network storage while he was already working at open it it's it's crazy some of this stuff is like a whole nother level of yeah of not just like oh i have a bunch of experience from apple to just like i have the apple thing i would like to remind everybody that currently on the iphone there is an open ai ask chat gpt integration you're supposed to be friends yeah buddy buddy really awkward yeah oh but then this morning don't worry everyone we have a resolution to this already really yes hold on where did I post this open AI says it has seen no evidence supporting Apple's trade secret theft claims oh they've they've investigated themselves they find themselves totally innocent an investigation and found nothing wrong oh that's crazy okay well this is ridiculous I guess they can just they can just this is a company that stole everything being like we didn't take that we didn't take that though yeah we literally took everything.

53:04David Imel:But guys, we already built so many things on the things we stole. Do you think we could just use it anyway? Remember that episode of Futurama where Bender walks around singing that song and goes, I love stealing, I love taking this. It's exactly... Yeah, out in the open, out in the open, baby. It's kind of like Suno. Little tangent, but there was a report this morning. Suno got hacked and Altasaurus code got leaked and Altasaurus code is like YouTube tags. And genius. and genius lyrics, which are also copyrighted. This is all stolen. Yeah, there's a lot going on there. This is going to be a really fun lawsuit to watch play out.

53:41David Imel:It's going to be the more discovery there is, the more fun we're all going to have. I can't wait for discovery. Ultimately, what's probably going to happen is it's going to take forever. OpenAI is probably going to have to, like, pause what they're doing hardware-wise and try and redo things as much as they can without looking like they're taking anything from Apple, or else Apple's going to

54:01Marques Brownlee:But that's the other thing is they kind of still do want to look like they're taking things from Apple. They took Johnny Ive They took Johnny Ive from Apple. Yeah, and Ferrari took Johnny Ive and was probably like, this is the guy who did the Apple stuff. Now he's with us. That makes it good, right? And yeah, it didn't work.

54:18David Imel:Notice how he's still the former Apple guy, not the Luce creator. Okay, question. If you're hiring someone like you're open AI and you're hiring someone for their knowledge of like a certain part of the market and their relationships and like oh i know these factories blah blah blah and then you hire them away from someone like apple how does that person then not just go back and use those same factories like there's only so many factories you can use to build things china cares no but i mean you're saying to use the factories like the to marquez's point it's this guy's knowledge of these factories like oh i know this one factory builds this thing he has that knowledge no matter what whether or not he's bringing in old iphone parts or whatever or new iphone parts yeah that's what i'm saying you can't restrict knowledge and this is the whole reason why these non-competes existed in the first place but by non-competes existing you're also basically locking people into a company so it's kind of two years later i'm still gonna know that company exists for sure knowing the factory doesn't mean you're gonna know how they're building everything in it i mean you could use it again but then it would be the factory breaking trade secrets that they probably have some sort of contract in and how things are built and whatnot.

55:28David Imel:Plus, chances are, if you're going to the factory Apple's using, Apple's probably using them at a pretty high capacity already. Yeah. I mean, I remember getting a tour of the Pegatron factory. Hilarious name. And they were building the iPhone 10 there while I was there. And that's how that stuff gets leaked. It's like very, very simple. There is difference between just like knowledge and like trade secrets though like you can yes but that's the gray area

55:55Marques Brownlee:they it's out if all these alleged things happened we passed the gray area yeah no yeah those things pass the gray area but i think there is a gray area in knowledge that you had to do your job and trade secrets and i'm sure apple probably explicitly defines some things as secret and cannot be traded but the things that aren't explicitly defined are just kind of like oh

56:19David Imel:proprietary well you can be you can have a not have a non uh sorry there's too many non yeah too many abbreviations here you can have a contract that doesn't involve a non-disclosure but you could still probably have nda things that you learned at the company that if it were to be those things came out you'd be breaking that contract no yeah just never open your mouth

56:42Marques Brownlee:here's another thing that happens a lot in my inbox okay is i'll get an email from someone who was working at one smartphone company or one car company or whatever. And they go, hey, it's my last day at the job. Just wanted to say, it was great working with you. Here's me passing you off to a new contact here. And then five minutes later, I'll get an email from the same person. Hey, I'm now working at this company. Good to be in touch. Here's some stuff to just get our relationship started. So they are taking their contacts from one relationship that they had at one company to another one. Is that trade secrets?

57:15Marques Brownlee:No. Is that part of the knowledge you have on the job? Kind of, yeah. That's just how business works. That's why you got hired. You're a PR person who has those contacts. Yeah. So, yeah. It goes with you. It goes with you. Well, funny enough, OpenAI. None of this is legal information. Or legal. Legal advice. Yes. Legal advice. Or financial advice. Funny, related to this, related to this, OpenAI, big, big report out of Bloomberg this week. uh open eyes first hardware device is reportedly a movable screenless speaker built as an ai companion i thought it was an iphone not that's not their first one it will be their second probably um if this is actually really interesting they're actually allowed to why are we calling a

57:55David Imel:movable it's a bluetooth speaker it's a bluetooth speaker but but it's not bluetooth it's not bluetooth it's probably wi-fi they have um it has anyway i'll go through who cares so it's going to be a smart speaker that lives in your home and it will exist as a sort of companion that you'll be able to talk to casually control other smart home devices play media respond to messages and tap into the full range of capabilities offered by chat gpt it kind of sounds like the sonos roam speaker their little portable speaker that you move around the house that both has wi-fi and bluetooth um they german says that it will become it will become more personalized and proactive as it grows to understand its owner over time, and it will use a more advanced version of the ChatGPT Live feature they just announced last week to communicate with users.

58:42It can listen and talk at the same time, adapt naturally to conversations, and quickly process information. It's designed to stay in your home, but it will be extremely easy to move around different rooms. So if you take it to the washing machine room or something, if you live in a house and you're rich, unlike me, it's supposed to have... I don't have a laundry room, bro. So the device is said to have mechanical elements that can move on their own to give the users a sense that the device is actually responding and is a bit more anthropomorphized. Don't love that. You mean like that Apple research paper they put out a few years ago?

59:14Yes, just like that confidential trade secret paper. It will include a camera and other sensors to better understand its surroundings and context. Don't love that part. And reportedly, OpenAI is working on five different hardware devices, including the phone. but it plans to announce this one this year and probably release it in 27 though because of this lawsuit it's very possible this gets pushed by like a year

59:39David Imel:this might stay in I don't want a speaker that gets more proactive that might be the worst feature I could think of on a thing that's constantly listening and looking at me all the time I don't want it to that's crazy You're right.

59:58Marques Brownlee:It's crazy that it would, like, get more adapted to you. They're using the word proactive, which makes me think it will start... It will stop prompting you because it knows it's not.

1:00:08David Imel:It will stop prompting me instead of me prompting it. Like, I don't want to walk by and be like, yo, what's up? Weather's pretty nice out today and I'm going to pick up the movable speaker and move it as far into the woods as possible with a baseball throw. Andrew, design a web app that does this. I'm going to just toss it out the window. Make no mistakes. Make no mistakes. All of these tech bro, like there's so much discussion in the tech space right now about taste. and everyone thinks doing things with taste means doing things with like an Apple hardware finish. You know what I mean? No, taste means not making a robot wife in any capacity.

1:00:44I don't care if it's a dude. I don't care if it's a beautiful brushed aluminum speaker. Don't do it. But you know Sam Allman's, Sam Allman's just trying to figure out as many ways as possible to get people to buy a ChatGPT subscription for life. Like that's what he wants. He wants you to become attached to things. He wants you to just never want to unsubscribe to ChatGPT because you're basically killing your friend if you do this. That's what he wants you to do.

1:01:07Marques Brownlee:I'll tell you why I think this is really interesting. And this is kind of what came from that video that I just made, which was, do you think that Apple with the iPhone will make an AI good enough to keep you on the iPhone, or do you think an AI company will come along and make hardware good enough to take you off of the iPhone? Every company is looking for what the next big thing is all the time. The iPhone has been the big thing for a long time, which has everybody on edge looking for the next big thing. And it seems like AI is going to be related to this next big thing in some way. And so if you're a company that's either new or very heavily invested in AI and you think that there's a possibility that you can get someone to the next big thing that is not the iPhone, how do you make that?

1:01:51Marques Brownlee:What is that thing? Those are all unanswered questions. This is gonna be one of the first big company attempts at the next big thing. and what they will absolutely not have is a way to connect it to the iPhone. And so they'll have to do everything on this device anticipating that it never connects to an iPhone. It'll have to connect to the internet on its own. It will have to listen to the user and move and connect to the ChatGPT service on its own. And if you want to have it do all the things that you were talking about that it's supposed to do, which is like play media, respond to messages, and do all this other stuff, how does it do that without talking to your iPhone?

1:02:27Marques Brownlee:That's really tricky. but the second that you make it connect to the iPhone, you are dependent on the iPhone and it is therefore not the next big thing after the iPhone. And that's the challenge that they're all after. We saw this fail many times. Think of the humane pin. Okay, we want to build the next big thing. What if it's a pin that sits on your chest and it has this little AI in it and you can talk to it and it listens to you, whatever. We all know that was a dumb idea and it was way too early and it was a bad product but one of the things that it absolutely could not do was connect to the iPhone to get messages, to do any of the things we wanted it to do because the smartphone's so good.

1:03:03Marques Brownlee:So the challenge that seems impossible that is up against all these big companies and ChatGPT or OpenAI is gonna try is to make something that you are willing to use that never connects to your phone. And it's a really hard challenge and it's probably gonna be a dumb, bad product and we're way too early still, but that's the challenge ahead of them.

1:03:22David Imel:That is exactly why, specifically the line, respond to messages perked my ears up. Yeah, same. Because how are you going to do that? Does that mean that they're going to launch their own messaging service? Is that included in ChatGPT? It's the exact issue Humane has. ChatGPT messages or something? Because if you're going to respond to iMessages, then you need to plug into the iPhone, which Apple will never let you do, even if you did hire Johnny Ive. This is the main thing for me. OpenAI has been trying to build out an ecosystem of tasks and things that ChatGPT is able to do. None of these things have to do with other people, right?

1:03:54and you cannot get rid of the iPhone, you can't get rid of the phone without replacing the messaging ecosystem and the ability to talk to other people, work with other people in Slack, in messages. Most of the things that we do on our phones are connect with other people digitally, whether it's social media, whether it's texting. OpenAI does not have that. So yes, you could probably make a bot that you talk to that is anthropomorphized, that you develop a relationship with, that you just sort of have conversations with, sure. But like replacing the iPhone is insane. And I don't I still don't know what they expect their phone to be, because if it's a phone, it's just going to be an Android phone.

1:04:30And like, sure, maybe it's optimized for chat GPT in some way. And the reason they're doing that is because they want you to keep using the chat GPT subscription until you die. But it's not going to replace the core fundamental features of what makes texting texting and what makes Slack Slack. Like, yeah, they're never going to get a critical mass to stop using the messages. Yeah.

1:04:50Marques Brownlee:Insane. What I do see is the people on the bleeding edge, the tech bros, as we call them, who are like trying to turn these AI chatbots into useful tools and to have them do tasks for them or to be useful to them or whatever. And there are existing – I was just pulling it up because I think John uses one of these – Applaud, like a little note-taking campaign, which is essentially just like a little handheld thing. Your sponsors our podcast every once in a while. Yeah, which is like it is just a little useful thing, which it can listen to the meetings that you're in and summarize them for you. or it can listen to the notes that you talk to it and it can bring back that stuff later proactively when it thinks you want to hear that stuff again.

1:05:22Marques Brownlee:Marquez was not paid to say that that time, but we haven't paid to say that. Correct, good disclosure, good disclosure. But it's an example of a thing that does not connect to your iPhone, but uses AI to try to be useful. And the more big ambitions you have with this thing to be useful, the more you start to overlap with, oh, well, my phone can do that already. Or, oh, well, I think it's just easier to do that on my phone instead of like also getting a second device to do that. And that's where you're up against like, well, what do we make this thing do? Does it live alongside your iPhone? Like the AI pin tried to?

1:05:55Marques Brownlee:Is it just like a thing I have in my pocket sometimes? I take it with me everywhere. Is it wearable? So it's on me all the time. This one, the first descriptions of it kind of sounded like a HomePod, like it was plugged into the wall, but it's clearly not. So it's like a battery powered thing. So you put it in your pocket with you? I don't think it, no, no, no. You're not supposed to take it out of your home. It's out of your, it's in your home all the time. It never leaves. It's a Bluetooth speaker. so yeah it's like a not just wi-fi yeah so it is it is interesting to see what their attempt of it will be and then of course they will shower this with former apple designers and and lots of well

1:06:24David Imel:people who hopefully it doesn't maybe they didn't hire an apple designer from homepod because they maybe have a bunch of old casings from sam altman's stupid eye orb thing that he tried to sell a long time ago they're still for what dude to prove you're a human bro and get rich off crypto this This is the original reason I thought Sam Balbin was a loser. Prove you're a human, rich off crypto. It's for UBI, baby. Tell me you couldn't see this orb thing being a little speaker with a camera sensor that would talk to you. Yeah. This is almost what I imagined it being. It looks like a membrane. It would be so funny if this is what winds up being the hardware for or something very similar to it.

1:07:04David Imel:Say what you want, but I would be so happy to have a BB-8 just follow me around all day chatting with me. Little BB-8 guy from Star Wars. That thing's so cute. So apparently they're working on five hardware devices right now, which is very interesting.

1:07:17Marques Brownlee:I imagine one of them is planning to leave the house. Probably headphones, maybe. That could make sense, yeah. Yeah. There's also like Apple is going to be trying to work on things that compete too because they're also constantly worried about what will beat the iPhone or beat next. So like AirPods with cameras, like random AI stuff, they're always working on stuff. Yeah. So, yeah. We'll see. It's funny that I don't think Anthropic is going to make hardware anytime soon. I think they're just cool doing the B2B thing.

1:07:46David Imel:Aren't they releasing like a keyboard? No, the WorkLouder keyboard is with OpenAI. That was with OpenAI? Wait, wait. Just if I can rant on that, it's literally something that's been available forever. It's just... It's a macro pad. WorkLouder just makes a little macro pad. We've talked about WorkLouder here. They're an interesting company that makes a lot of stuff that goes on pre-order and almost never gets actually sold. it's just a macro pad they've had forever and it says OpenAI on it. They've done it for Figma already. I'm pretty sure it's the exact same thing. Yeah, it's for Codex. Oh, okay.

1:08:17David Imel:It's just like whatever that can do you can do with any amount of buttons that can plug into a USB port. The action button on my phone does that. I have a shortcut set so when you press the action button it does speech to text and then gives that to Claude and it's just my Siri is now Claude button. Yeah. A Steam Deck could do whatever that is. It's nothing. Well, in a move that nobody saw coming except for everybody, Meta wants to make glasses that record all the time. They're rumored to be working on this always-on pair of AI glasses

1:08:53Marques Brownlee:that are constantly recording audio and snapping photos that you'll be able to ask Meta AI about later.

1:09:00David Imel:The absolute cojones on this company is crazy. They gave them credit last week for like working on the drilling out LED lights. And then this week they said, hold my beer. I want to make this even worse. They're like they're working on a new pair of glasses that essentially would be recording audio and snapping photos every couple of seconds. Yeah. Constantly. So you can talk about it later. So you can ask meta AI questions about it later, like a memory assistance, I guess. We've talked about this with other things. What was the bubble memory pickle thing? they claim that it wouldn't be quote stored on stored by meta and users wouldn't be able to access it it would just be they would be pulling the metadata from it and then you would be able to prompt into it but they're also not sure if they're going to use it to train their AI models which definitely means they're 100 % going to find a way that they can train from their AI models on it we already saw them do that

1:09:59Marques Brownlee:is this not exactly what we were talking about with the air pods with cameras I wasn't here for that. I don't think the AirPods with cameras are going to be recording all the time. Well, okay, so recording, I think that's a weird misnomer in the title. It's not recording, but it is. So here's what the rumor was for the AirPods. There was going to be cameras in the stems of the AirPods. Right. And there are low-resolution cameras that are never recording video, but are always recording some low-resolution map of whatever, which is like kind of still video. Was that the rumor? But it would be, yeah.

1:10:32Marques Brownlee:Yeah, so it's not a high enough quality camera to record videos with it, but it would be able to sense your environment, the context. Yeah, it's more like a sensor. Are you outside or inside? It's kind of like a low-res video sensor in a way that the AI can then use that to identify, oh, you're looking at a sign, or oh, you're outside right now or inside right now. And so it's constantly running, but it's not recording. And so this article I'm reading it now, it's saying like, oh, there's this super sensing feature, which is, again, it's not recording photos and videos, but it is always running so that it has the context of what's going on when you're trying to ask it stuff and you're trying to engage with it.

1:11:10David Imel:I read recording audio all the time and snapping photos every couple seconds.

1:11:14Marques Brownlee:So this says in one proposed system, which is this is all rumored, raw footage and audio would not be stored by meta or made available to the user. Instead, the metadata from the audio and images would be extracted and that would be uploaded to a server for AI to query.

1:11:28David Imel:but that's still being recorded with the camera on the thing which is not a low resolution camera and still recording audio all of the time

1:11:35Marques Brownlee:but that never gets accessed by even the device itself I guess it's just the metadata that gets accessed

1:11:42David Imel:the metadata gets pulled but what does that mean it needs to be stored at some point to extract that information yeah but it can't all be stored so I guess it's only uploading the metadata You can't ask questions about metadata. It'll have your location, it'll have the lens, it'll have the battery life when the thing got taken. I mean, it can make tags, I guess, if you looked at a sign, but this is meta. Why are we pretending that they're not going to do the worst possible thing with this? Sooner or later, this data, someone's going to discover you can buy people's memories from a data broker because they're obviously going to be selling this for ad purposes, and the whole thing's going to explode.

1:12:25It's the same, I don't know if you guys remember, this is like five or six years ago, the New York Times did this experiment where they started buying people in New York's commutes from data brokers because Google Maps was like tracking their location, you know, and keep it like kind of record of like, oh, their commute starts at this place and they go, this is where they work. And you could buy people's commutes by name from data brokers. And sooner or later, you're going to be able to buy people's meta glasses,

1:12:49David Imel:memories or whatever, like, like what, even in a sense, like before that level, like if they, they're potentially training ai with this then they're obviously going to be taking enough of a audio or picture sample to be able to train it and the last time we saw them train with ai is a bunch of people doing private things the training ai is a bunch of people in a room looking at all of the photos and recordings train like labeling them for ai to understand lately yeah it's you know i don't know obviously all of this is rumored um the apple airpods one i would think that they would only do it if you asked it specifically like what am i looking at what is that if that i wasn't here for the apple airpods one if that's what they're doing you should be just as skeptical with them sure yes if you have something constantly recording you should be skeptical of it i don't know maybe don't i think that's on your ears i don't think we need cameras I don't think we need cameras on our ears.

1:13:46I think when you're, the thing that makes the smartphone so good is that you are very intentional about everything you're doing and it's very obvious to other people the things that you're doing most of the time. Even though, like, using a smartphone to take a photo is less in your face as using a camera because it's very obvious you're just taking a picture and you can sneakily snap a photo with your smartphone. Holding it up to do a thing, people can see. Staring at your screen, people can see. This is why, like, the metaglasses with the screen inside is like a bad idea because nobody knows that you're just surfing Instagram.

1:14:21I think it's important that the people around you have an awareness of what you're doing with the technology in front of you. And the more we try to hide this stuff, the worse it is for everybody's privacy.

1:14:32David Imel:Yeah, they specifically said in their statement that we read last week that they need to be able for people to trust their products because this is a product that people are supposed to be wearing all the time. And the more people don't trust it, the more it's going to get banned from different places. And therefore, like, they're going to shoot themselves in the foot with their own product. Yeah. And at this point, I don't see why these products don't get banned from bathrooms, changing facilities, gyms, pools, like... F1 paddocks. F1. Like, they're going to get banned from so many things that are part of your everyday life that these aren't going to be able to be things that you can have on your person as an everyday accessory.

1:15:12David Imel:and they're going to shoot themselves in the foot with it. Yeah, that's what's very hard about this is that the banning of these things is going to get more and more difficult the more smart glasses companies start to exist, right? Like we had Meta first, but now we have all of these smaller companies that are making smart glasses. Google's going to start making them. Apple's going to make them. It's going to be very difficult for people to actually know what's smart glasses and what's not smart glasses. I have to assume by the end of next year, glasses with cameras in them will be banned from public restrooms.

1:15:42David Imel:You don't think so? From lobbying? Dude, no one is ever going to take care of any of these tech companies, man. I think that might be a creepy enough thing that I could see it. Well, I mean, it's going to happen whether it's a government ban or just most private companies are allowed to ban it from their own public, their own spaces. But the problem, too, is that some of these, like the Meta ones in particular, have prescription lenses in them. So they are the people's glasses. But that's at that point, that's what shoots meta in the foot is because it doesn't matter if it's prescription glasses or not.

1:16:15David Imel:If you're a facility that doesn't want recording in it like that, you ban it from it. And then if you either don't wear your glasses or you don't get to come in or you have to have another pair of prescription glasses, which is annoying, which is really annoying. I've straight up gotten ads on Facebook, like like recommended Facebook marketplace listings for crystal meth. Like there's no there is nothing that can be done about about this. You know, like I really believe we're at a point where unless we have like some sort of radical change in the power structure of this country, they're just going to do whatever they want.

1:16:50You know, yeah. And I can make all the jokes I want about, you know, Bender stealing or whatever. But, you know, that's that's how I feel.

1:16:57Marques Brownlee:Yeah. Yeah. I did look up the Apple story from a couple of weeks ago, which, again, this is a rumor thing. So we don't know if it's coming out or not. But it was infrared cameras. Infrared. Yeah. Okay. So it's cameras and people will say it's cameras, but there you go.

1:17:10David Imel:Yep. It's still a camera. If it's a camera, it's a camera. There are people that still put tape over there like webcams, you know, like anytime there's a camera involved, people are super. There are computers that come with a physical, a lot of switch. So like, I think anytime you put a camera in your thing, people are going to look at it with a skeptical eye. I mean, if you want to think, if you want to believe all the companies, you should even just be skeptical of it because if someone can somehow get into any of the thing, like Most people do it for webcams more because if someone gets into your network, you're worried people are seeing what's on your webcam.

1:17:39David Imel:There's a thousand reasons to be skeptical. But guys, what is a photo anyway? It doesn't matter. The other thing I saw in this, which is still a rumor, is I guess they pulled up a statement from Meta a while ago that kind of breathed some information to what we talked about before. but they claim that the reason they don't want it lighting up during AI instances versus recording instances is that if it's lighting up all of the time, then people won't actually know when people are recording actively versus the AI recording it and then become too accustomed to it that they won't actually know, which just one, two different color lights, solved, meta, I'll take my check.

1:18:19David Imel:How long did that take you? 30 seconds. But yeah, it's like that's one of those things that like on the absolute baseline of it is like that makes sense. And then you think about it for five seconds and you're like, that's just all for your benefit and not for the benefit of any of your users. So stupid. But so I can only assume always super sensing will not activate the recording light because it would just be on all the time. And thus concludes our depressing meta coverage. Well, one more thing. Well, well, but wait, there's more. They are also potentially thinking if they would bring this into existing products already.

1:18:56David Imel:So like the current meta glasses just getting out of it. If you assume this could be a software update, right? It's got all the stuff it needs for it already. The cojones. And thus concludes our depressing meta coverage. It's really hot in this room right now. Maybe that is raising our tempers a little bit. Maybe we'd feel more sympathetic. This is a pretty stupid one. What did Marquez... How did you post this in Slack when it happened? What? Oh, yeah. It was like, could Meta be more tone deaf? And then just posted an article that just says, Meta wants to make glasses that are recording all the time.

1:19:29Marques Brownlee:Yeah. This is not new, by the way. Meta wanted to put that thing in your house. What was that called? That little screen that had a camera on it? Portal. The portal. The Facebook portal. They wanted to put that in your house years ago. They've always wanted to put cameras. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. They were not allergic to cameras.

1:19:42David Imel:Early into me working for you, and you were like, we just got an ad opportunity, and it's the most money we've ever been offered. And he sent it to me and I was like, we can't do this. He's like, yeah, I know we can't do this. It's Facebook camera in your house. We obviously can't do this. He's just like, just crazy.

1:20:00Marques Brownlee:Yeah, they've had the Cacones for many years. Listen, everyone wants a camera in your house.

1:20:06David Imel:I love the Meta Glasses as a GoPro. The moment that you're using them for anything else, just take them off. They're a way cooler GoPro. It's like if you're snowboarding, sure. I want to see your first person like POV video. That's super cool. If you're surfing, if you're doing anything, stream sports. But like if you're just walking on your like daily commute to the train station, just wear regular glasses. It's fine. Yeah. These are not metaglasses, by the way.

1:20:30Marques Brownlee:That's just so you know. Sometimes they're shaped like metaglasses because metaglasses are shaped like regular glasses. And you kind of have to like let people know. I got got by the Oakleys on the train the other day. I was like, why are those Oakleys so thick? The meta ones? Yeah. because also like I don't know if I hadn't seen this before but the Oakleys I saw only had a camera on one side no they usually only had a stud on the other side like there was something I was on the other side the Oakley ones have it in the center from what I remember

1:20:57David Imel:no no the Oakley running ones the normal Oakley ones are just like the Ravens the first Oakley ones that came out are more like a pair of glasses that just look crazy and kind of cool at the same time I hate that I kind of like them but you're talking about the like Oakley running like pit viper from last year. It wasn't those. It was a slightly more normal pair of those. If you saw someone with those just on the subway, I don't know if I'd be worried about the camera or what this person's about to launch out of the subway on some record run that he's going on in. Yeah, parkour. Record run in his time is going to be like 14 minutes a mile, I guarantee you.

1:21:33That's everybody in Brooklyn. They wear their shiny rainbow glasses and their bandit running$100 shorts and they run like 14 minute miles.

1:21:42David Imel:Listen, 14 minute miles is better than no minute miles. Don't get keep running. You're allowed to be bad at running and run. I run 14 minute miles in a heavy cotton t-shirt in my$20. That's what I'm saying. If Ellis can do it in that, you don't need those ugly glasses.

1:21:58Marques Brownlee:Yeah, but it's part of getting yourself invested. You can buy fancy golf clubs and shoot 150 and no one's mad at you for getting the clubs. You're out there on the course with the rest of us. 150 is really good though, right? That's high. It's quite bad. You don't want high. Maybe unsustainably bad. You don't want to. But it's okay. You're on the course. I don't shame anyone running or walking. What does hit 150 mean? Oh, God. In golf, you play 18 holes. The object of the game is to have as few strokes as possible. So there's par threes. It's like swimming. Par fours and par fives. So like a normal golf course, this is like a par 72 for the whole 18 holes.

1:22:34Does that mean you hit the ball 72 times to get all 18 holes in? For even par. Exactly. 150 sounds horrible. So 150 is pretty bad.

1:22:42Marques Brownlee:So best case scenario, you shoot an 18. What? Like 18 holes in holes. Oh, a hole in one on every hole? Oh, yeah, I guess. That would be like the best score you could possibly get. Allegedly? I shouldn't even say this. So 8.3 strokes for holes. Say it. No, I'm not going to say it. I feel like I know what you're going to say. You're about to call out someone for being bad at golf? No. It's a totally unrelated political statement. I'll say it.

1:23:06David Imel:No, no, no.

1:23:06Marques Brownlee:We won't even say it on the pod.

1:23:08David Imel:Speaking of political statements, trivia. You know what else is unsustainably bad? The state of the world. All right. So we spoke about the meta glasses always recording just now for the last half hour of my life. But it immediately made me think of a different AI camera that was constantly recording that Google released in 2017. Oh, yeah. What was it called? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I remember this. Yeah. You know what's funny? Super sensing would be really great for were you paying attention?

1:23:42Marques Brownlee:super sensing. Marquez, you remember how nobody was mad about the Google camera that was always recording in your house? No one used it. Why was nobody mad about that? Maybe they were. It was also just more like a dorky thing that no one would buy, but the metaglasses are already everywhere. And it was cute. You were supposed to use it with your kids. And it's only in your house, so you can't creep on people because it's only in your house. That's a big thing. It was your call to let Google spy on you. It's you getting creeped on instead of creeping on other people. By Google instead of creeping out of the field.

1:24:11That's true. That's a big difference.

1:24:12David Imel:It's just made me realize I don't know what the product is. Yeah. Because I thought it was something else. But I also think that since then we have just been cursed with knowledge. Yeah. We were willfully ignorant for a long period of time.

1:24:22Marques Brownlee:We understand how many more motivations now. Yeah. Yeah. Money. Yeah. Okay. Well, answers will be at the end like usual. We'll be right back.

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1:26:04David Imel:Welcome back. So for this last segment, we are going to do a game. I am going to shout out one of my favorite podcasts that I've been listening to recently. It's After the Whistle, which is a soccer podcast all about the World Cup. and they have a segment at the end called Bits and Bobs where they talk about random little things that have something to do with soccer maybe not, maybe it does. I thought it would be fun for us to do it and then as I was explaining it to everyone they were like, so show and tell. And I was like, yeah. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Okay. So show and tell. We're going to do show and tell.

1:26:34David Imel:Who wants to go first? I'm bringing in my trade secrets. I was going to say I brought in secret apple parts. Here's the blueprints for the restoration icon. So this is just stuff we've been enjoying recently? enjoying things that you're excited about. Yeah, wait, can I read what you described it as so I can justify what I brought?

1:26:52Marques Brownlee:Perfect, yeah.

1:26:53David Imel:Marcus has a backpack that he won't let any of us see what's inside. We have no idea what's in the bag.

1:26:57Marques Brownlee:What's in the bag? And also, David, you said something about you brought three things. I have like three things. And I also have three things. Oh.

1:27:03David Imel:This is a pretty long episode already, guys. I'll be quick. I'm gonna go first. They're all related. Okay, you go. Oh my God. My thing is my birthday present from Adam and Alex. Hmm. It is a VJ Edgecombe rookie card. Whoa. And also... He is a rookie still, right? A VJ Edgecombe rookie card. And then eight more identical VJ Edgecombe rookie cards. And I keep them on my desk. All ten of them. That's cute. That's adorable. Is he a sixer? Alex bought something from... That's a sixer? That's dedication. That's true dedication. He's fired. Listen, game recognized game. VJ Edgecombe is a baller. Has Alex ever heard of Joel Embiid?

1:27:46Yeah. So none of my things are going to, actually one of them users or listeners might actually want to use. Okay, I'm going to do a couple. So first one, fairly recently, I decided that I was going to mod my old new Nintendo 3DS XL. So I did significant upgrades to it. But there, funny enough, have been a lot of hardware advancements in the last 20 years. As long as you don't need to buy RAM. I didn't have to buy RAM for this. I did buy a battery. They sell batteries now that have 3X the battery capacity of the original one, which is crazy for the 3DS XL, the new 3DS XL. It was foretold. I have this beautiful galaxy color.

1:28:32I remember I sold my original DS, it was the Ocarina of Time edition for it, which I regret because now that's worth a lot of money. but I homebrewed it so now you can play practically anything on it pretty awesome that I legally purchased myself on the Nintendo story that doesn't exist anymore and yeah I've just been playing I've been playing Legend of Zelda

1:29:04I don't know it's the 3DS one that came out after A Link to the Past can you just pull it out of the thing and read it no it's on the software yeah A Link Between Worlds I think it's Fire Emblem is the cartridge anyway I've just been like you know on the little subway that's been fun so yeah that's been fun other things for the subway

1:29:28David Imel:that's a good one I think I gave Alice or you my 3DS or my DS I forget and I kind of regret it I think Alice took it it was me okay other fun thing that you guys might have fun with i bought this recently it only costs 50 so this is called the xte ink uh it is an e-reader that is super super thin doesn't even have a backlight there's a lot of problems with it but but it is very small this is the x4 they also make the X3. What's cool with it is that they give you these MagSafe rings with it and you can stick the MagSafe ring on the back and it is perfectly sized for the back of your phone. So if you have like an iPhone Air or an iPhone Pro Max, the X3 fits on the regular Pro, the 4 fits on the Pro Max.

1:30:24Yeah, it's pretty awesome. It just sticks to the back of your phone and so then when you're on the subway, you can either play A Link Between Worlds or you can just go on and flip your phone over and suddenly you have an e-reader can't you read on the front part of your phone shut up andrew all right last thing really quickly a piece of software that i've been enjoying a lot recently it is called typora and it's writing it's writing software and you might find you might think that's boring you might think that's boring because it is because it kind but it's sort of just like very simplistic writing software that uh it has like it has support for markdown and it's got all these different headings and paragraphs and it's like it's it's got a lot more features than google docs and it lets you organize things better but it's so simplistic and it's so just like there is nothing else that i found that when i'm writing with it i'm just flying across the zone i love those when i'm on google docs i get so distracted so easily.

1:31:23The fact that I'm in a browser with tabs is like horrible. There's way too many things on Google Docs that don't work well. Like image insertion is freaking horrible on Google Docs.

1:31:34David Imel:Still has that created AI as the first like clicking insert an image and then generate an image is the first thing. Or even just downloading images that you guys drop in the docs is the worst in Google Docs. Yeah. And honestly just not having other tabs available to me so I don't get distracted it at all and just just thinking about what i'm writing i've really liked this app it's um they have a two-week free trial and then it's like 15 once if you want to buy it outright and to me that's very much worth it so no subscription which is really nice uh type aura for mac i really like it so those are my three things cool that's nice andrew what's i have one pretty simple one but i'm in the middle of a podcast right now that i'm really enjoying we are currently recording it so Claire found this podcast on Reddit.

1:32:20David Imel:It's from like 2019. But it's about an actor who got hired for a role in Band of Brothers. And then Tom Hanks fired him after he already got hired because he saw his audition tape and said he has dead eyes. And so the entire. Don't you want that for Band of Brothers? A lot of people say that. It's like awful World War II movie. Or no, really good miniseries about World War II, but lots of people in World War II are generally. But the whole thing is just him talking to other people in the movie industry that he knows that might know Tom Hanks and trying to figure out what this comment about Dead Eyes means to the point where he's, because it's 20 years ago at this point, that came out in like 2000.

1:33:03David Imel:If the last episode doesn't end with him asking Tom Hanks to his face. I'm on episode 8 out of 10 so I'm getting really close to seeing if that's the and I'm only assuming if people say this was a good podcast recommending that I'm hoping something along that lines he's tried to get in touch with the what's it called why can I think of the screening director or the casting director thank you but she didn't want to talk to him and now but a lot of the people he knows know Tom Hanks so I'm hoping Tom Hanks gets in here somewhere so you can ask him about uh it's like four lines in one episode but it happens to be episode five of band of brothers tom hanks directs even though he's in it already um can i ask a stupid question what is this podcast called it's called dead eyes oh okay i gotta say that connor radcliffe i believe his name is he's been in like a bunch of small things here and there he's pretty pretty he has like john ham on it there's a lot of very impressive people on it You mean Jonathan Hamon?

1:34:05David Imel:Yes. Huge Bad Buddy fan. Yes, huge. But yeah, I'm enjoying it. I love these podcasts that are hyper-focused on something that's so trivial, but if you can make 10 episodes out of it, it's like, well, now I'm just invested. So stuff like that, I really enjoy. Shout out to Reply. I'll shout out. This is like serial for something that doesn't matter at all or only matters to one person and it really affected their life 20 years ago. and that's fascinating so i'm excited to finish it but if you need a quick podcast yeah after you finish this one after after waveform and you subscribe and listen to our whole backlog and let it play while you're sleeping and then you can listen to dead eyes once you've gotten through

1:34:48Marques Brownlee:the whole season um because what are yours i'm so mine mine so what's in the bag yeah i brought my i brought my bag here so my at the beginning of the new year i decided i wanted to have a new year's resolution to learn a new skill and i decided that that skill would be juggling so oh at the beginning of the year i bought a set of three juggling balls how the has none of us

1:35:15David Imel:known this how did i never hear about juggling at work before so every day for the past six months

1:35:22Marques Brownlee:i've been juggling at the end of every day and what i can report now is that i've gotten pretty good at juggling these exact three items or items that are the same size and shape. So like three small oranges, I can juggle really well. I will demo it for you. The goal for this should be by next

1:35:44David Imel:year, at any point when I'm at my desk, I can just throw something to your desk and you say, No way! I now feel like I know nothing about it. That was pretty good. What else are you hiding from us? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 9, 10. Dude. Dude, okay. Good for audio listeners, honestly. Wait, so, Marquez, why?

1:36:07Marques Brownlee:Can I try? Yeah. I just thought it would be, so Rufus can juggle. I was like, it looks like fun to be able to juggle, but I also, kind of like a Rubik's cube, I wanted to be able to try something that didn't have instructions. So like a Rubik's cube, it would be fun to learn how to solve a Rubik's cube, but it's basically just learning and memorizing a set of instructions. I wanted it to be a little bit creative. Like there's different, you see different types of juggling and like different patterns and stuff like that. Yeah. I think those still require instructions, but I've just been no instructions, just like throwing them up in the air and figuring it out for the past couple of months.

1:36:42Marques Brownlee:So Adam, you probably know the brand.

1:36:44David Imel:The brand. What is the brand? Dunkin'. Yep. They make yo-yos. Yeah, man. Really good yo-yos. Dunkin' yo-yos when we were in like fourth grade were. What do you mean? I still have one. You still have a Dunkin' yo-yo? You guys are into yo-yos? I'm hella into yo-yos. You guys are into yo-yos too? I remember - When I was a kid, I was so good at yo-yos. Dude, I could do a bunch of the - Can you? Do that too, baby. How did this - Do you want me to - Wait, we should start a yo-yo core. Yeah. I didn't know you guys were into yo-yos. Marquez is still juggling, by the way. This might be the oldest thing I've ever said, but when I was younger, I remember going to the Five and Dime and looking for a Dunkin' Yo-Yo in my town.

1:37:20David Imel:What's a Five and Dime? It's like a general store. I've never heard of Five and Dime. That's some Unc stuff right there. It's a dollar tree here. Yeah.

1:37:29Marques Brownlee:But five and dime is older.

1:37:31David Imel:Five and dimes were, yeah.

1:37:32Marques Brownlee:Like that print song. Wait, were they? Were they? In Raspberry Bray. I would like to remind everyone that this was Marques' first of three things. Oh, no, sorry. These are all three things.

1:37:42David Imel:Oh.

1:37:44Marques Brownlee:It was a pun.

1:37:45David Imel:I was like, what else have you been hiding from us? Yeah, sorry. That was it. That was the three things. Juggle sacks. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so what is your thing, Adam? Thank you for remembering my name. I couldn't remember. I blacked out It's only been a decade It's 150 degrees I'm cooking in here dude My brain is on fire Mine is just an audio book that actually Andrew put me onto Called Dungeon Crawler Carl And I had mentioned to him A couple weeks ago how I've been seeing this book Everywhere and I don't really know what it's about Everyone's talking about it Dungeon Crawler Carl It's like a whole series And he explained it to me in like two sentences In a way that made me instantly intrigued and he was like oh yeah and the audiobook was pretty good but i stopped listening to it because blah blah so i was like okay maybe i'll just start listening to the audiobook again and the audiobook is more than pretty good it is amazing it is really good i just sometimes i'm like when my commute is too long i find myself zoned out and then i've missed however many minutes and then it's so hard to find where i missed but it's what it is to be an adult yeah the reason it's everyone's talking about is because they just announced a netflix version oh maybe that's what it is okay yeah but it's really good great sound effects great direction uh the main actor i forget his name i'm terrible but he acted his ass off like it was so good yeah where do you listen to it what what app deals unfortunately it is exclusive to audible so if you're if you're on spotify if you're on anything else you have to like pretty much get pocket cast had ebooks i know there's also like eight books yeah there's audio books out i believe i don't know how many actual books are i'm not there yet i'm on dungeon crawler carl dungeon crawler carl yeah i would want to give the synopsis because you're the one that sold it to me sounds terrible i mean it's like it's exactly what it sounds like it's a dungeon crawler game in book format it's like a guy asked to enter a dungeon with random and be like that doesn't sound good at all bosses and things i know it sounds really silly but it's pretty well done in the way they describe everything They describe he's walking and question mark pops up and he clicks question mark to find instructions.

1:39:54David Imel:The way they do it all is really impressive. I've read the description so many times and I was just like, this sounds dumb. It's like you're listening to a D &D game. Basically, yeah. It's like listening to a D &D game because I read it and I was like, yeah, no, not for me. And then when Andrew mentioned that he had been listening to it and he was like, oh, he really liked it. I was like, oh, let me actually give it a try. To be fair, D &D is like all imagination and just imagining things in your head. so I guess an audiobook would be good fodder. And it's not just like, you're not just listening to a book of a guy playing.

1:40:20David Imel:It's like the world has turned into this and the only people surviving have to go into these dungeon gates that open up and then you start dungeon crawling in the sense of there's levels and bosses. Jeff Hayes. That's the actor, Jeff Hayes. Incredible voice actor. Kills it. Okay. Cool. So that was mine. All right. I like this. I think we should be recommending things more often.

1:40:43Marques Brownlee:We used to do that. as an opening segment yeah we did it was like a piece of content or a thing you want oh yeah one

1:40:48David Imel:thing we've done that way long ago a while ago oh in the before times why are you guys getting your uh boards ready what do you think is coming up i have a feeling uh we might want to answer some trivia questions now give a pen he's all wrong how the pens keep getting relocated guys what Japanese minimalist minimalist minimalist home goods brand did Pete Lau want OnePlus to be the tech industry equivalent of Hit It?

1:41:20Marques Brownlee:Japanese. I feel like this is more what is the company? The like ROM, the Android ROM that became Xiaomi. It feels like more like Xiaomi would be more of this. Why? Well, I can't give it away. Give it away, give it away, give it away now. But I'll give it away later. I'm interested. Yeah, no, OnePlus never actually became anything. Not even remotely. Weird quote for 2014. I agree. All right. Turn it around. Marquez, you put... The country. Is that the Japanese flag? Yep. It's not a bad artist rendering. I mean, it's not a difficult flag to draw. Yeah, but it's red. Give me some credit. it. He only has a black marker.

1:42:06Yeah, it's monochrome. Damn it. You had the red marker, too? Cut that, cut that. Alright, Andrew, you put Uniglow. That's incorrect. But, David, you put Muji. And Muji is the correct answer. You've never even heard of Muji? You've never heard of Muji? You've never heard of Muji? I forgot you guys live in New Jersey. Who does that mean? They don't have Muji in New Jersey? I don't know. Muji rules. We have that in New York? Is it? Bad to say this looks just like Uniglow? Yeah, kind of. They sell less clothes than more others. More like home. My slippers that I sell.

1:42:40David Imel:It's like world market. Yeah, but only Japan. No, and they make it everything. They don't sell any non-Muji stuff. There is no Muji in New Jersey. Oh. That's what I said. Womp womp. The slippers I have. There's one in Williamsburg here. Muji rules. Muji rules. I have a lot of their mixing bowls, and I own some Muji slippers. Their stuff is really cheap and very good. And their pens. Yeah, their stationery is really good. Yeah. Alright, so for the last question of this trivia season, are you guys ready? These two are. I have no idea. I actually don't. I thought I knew what it was. In 2017, Google released an AI camera.

1:43:18David Imel:What was it called?

1:43:19Marques Brownlee:I don't remember this app. I don't remember its name, though. It's because you're not a king. Dang. I remember what it looked like. I remember it sitting in the middle of your house and swiveling around and looking at you. But I don't remember the name. It swiveled? It moved. It did not swivel. Or is this? No, sorry, I'm confusing two things. That's a different thing.

1:43:36David Imel:But you are supposed to put it on your mantle and just kind of leave it there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, then I'm definitely wrong. Yeah, whatever happened to mantles? You never hear about people and their mantles anymore. Well, I have a good mantles. Because we don't have homes anymore. I got a great apartment. You got a fireplace? Oh, I got a mantle.

1:43:51Marques Brownlee:Damn. All right. Proven wrong once again.

1:43:53David Imel:Yeah.

1:43:53Marques Brownlee:I like juggles.

1:43:54David Imel:He's got a mantle. You've got a mantle? I have a mantle. Do you guys have fireplaces? You're busy in my house. Yeah, I have a fireplace. That's crazy. We barely use it because I'm afraid it's going to set the whole house in fire. But it looks sick. And probably will split lanes head open one day. Fun fact, the house I grew up in had a fireplace, but no mantle. Anyway, we need to do the score because I'm hungry and we have a game show to run. And we have to show our... Flip him and read. What do you got?

1:44:18Marques Brownlee:Who wants to go first? That's what it was called. Yeah. Okay. Think, Marques. Think. Yeah. I wrote clicks, but that wasn't it. That was not it.

1:44:25David Imel:That's the communicator. Yeah. Andrew, what'd you write? I wrote Sully. I think that's a good guess. That's not a good guess. A camera that's on all the time. But it was on a Pixel 4 XL. Yeah, and it sucked. That's true. There's a long video. Tell us what it is, David. Okay, Google Clips. Correct. That's what it was. I was halfway there. I stay winning. With that correct answer, the score is going into trivia. David with 35. Andrew with 28. And Marques with 32. Wow. I prefer to stay at 32. Adam, how old are you? I'm unk. none of these none of these scores are going to matter in the next 90 minutes great we'll see can we call this the preseason wow that's very sports of you

1:45:08Marques Brownlee:I know except

1:45:09David Imel:it's very sports of David because he's still getting it wrong because it would be like regular season and we'd be going to playoffs

1:45:14Marques Brownlee:perfect perfectly wrong anyway thanks for watching thank you for listening and of course if you made it this far into the episode comment your trade secrets comment your trade secrets down below don't do that bring them comment the most important top secret trade secrets down below. In Minecraft. We will for sure not use them, but we'll think about maybe hiring you if you leave good ones. Anyway, catch you guys next week in our bonus episode, which will be Trivia Extravaganza. See you soon. Peace.

1:45:47David Imel:Waveform is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Rovin. We're partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network. The air conditioning is on it. were also music by Vane Silk.

1:46:05Do you guys remember when everyone thought Prompt Engineer was going to be like the new job everyone had? Yeah, now it's just designer.