Shocker: The Pixel 9a Has Leaked

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1:24what is up people of the internet welcome back to another episode of the Wavefront Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez. I'm Andrew. And I'm David. And if I'm remembering this right, our last episode was outside of our regularly scheduled programming. Check it out. It's a bonus episode and it has absolutely no tech whatsoever. So if you're in our normal audience who really loves tech, okay. But if you're in our new audience who's maybe like a little into not so much tech, hey, some analog stuff over there, some mechanical stuff. Bro. Some acoustic stuff over there. Some transducers over there.

1:56I just... The Marques and I just spent 10 minutes arguing about the meaning of the word analog. So some not so much tech stuff. It's really fun, actually, so go check it out if you want. But now we're back. It's a Friday. For real this time. And apparently there's WordPress drama. I need you to explain this to me because I wasn't aware that that's a sentence that could be a real thing. Yeah. What is happening? I thought that's just what you call stuff that happens on Tumblr. WordPress drama? Was that a bad joke? Is Tumblr built on WordPress? Correct. It's me. Well, it's owned by Automatic, which owns WordPress.

2:25but sort of owns WordPress. Okay. Do you guys know what WordPress is? I feel like we're doing a long form episode right now. Wait, can I also, we didn't do like what else is coming up in this episode. Oh, oh, right, right. So maybe we in 1957. Okay. On today's episode, we've got Wait, wait, wait. Marcus looks like you just didn't want to cut that so I just went with it. No, I thought you were just going to dive right in. Keep going. On today's episode, we've got our favorite developer, Christian Selle, getting another app taken from him we'll talk about it but also pixel 9a leaks no bar uh some more reddit absurdity microsoft killing hololens but first david please what is happening do you guys know what happened on october 4th 1957 oh god no i'm kidding it's not spot next very close to my dad's birthday but no wow yeah my dad was also born in 1957 i think he's was your dad also born in early 60s but in October 17th.

3:21Mine's. Oh, yeah. I guess my dad's old. All right. If you're still around. WordPress drama. Have you guys heard? Do you know? You know you've heard of WordPress. WordPress is a. But do you know what it is? Is a site that you can. It's a. It's kind of like. What's what? What do we. Squarespace. Squarespace. It's like you can build a website on top of it. Usually a blog with written posts. That's what. That's what I think of when I think of WordPress. Yeah. Yeah. So different. It's open source. Right. Right. Yes and no. Yes and no. And that's what makes this drama so spicy. Okay, cool. Okay. So WordPress is technically a CMS or content management system that throughout the years has been built out more and more to be able to run full websites.

4:05Gotcha. Now, the thing about WordPress is that it's very interesting because there is WordPress.org, which is a open sourced foundation that builds WordPress, right? And then there's also WordPress.com, which is a for-profit company that is owned by Automatic, which is a company that also owns Pocket Casts, Tumblr, some other stuff. Old school. Hold on. This is already reminding me of OBS versus Streamlabs OBS. And that's because it's extremely similar. Okay. Yeah. Cool. Yes. It's actually almost the same story. It sounds. Yeah. I was doing a lot of research on this yesterday, and I was asking a lot of my friends who are really deep in the open source community about this stuff.

4:46because I wanted to find some analogies and that kind of stuff. Yes, okay. So WordPress.org is this open-sourced foundation that builds WordPress. And then WordPress.com, owned by Matt Mullenweg, who runs Automatic, which also owns Tumblr, Pocket Cast, Long Reins, Gravatar, and actually recently acquired Beeper, if you remember that, when that happened. That is a weird portfolio. It is a cool portfolio. Interesting. Yeah. So Matt Mullenweg is a co-founder of WordPress. He like built it. He wanted it to be open source. He's like a hardcore open sourced kind of guy. But it's also hard to keep contributing to an open source project if you want it to be your job.

5:29Right. If you want something to be open source and you're not really like making money from it, a lot of the times what will happen is companies will spin up a for profit wing of the project that makes money but then contributes back to the open source project. Correct. And the point of open source is that other people can take that code, use it as the foundation for something and build other things. Yeah. Okay. Now it just so happens that another company took that open source WordPress code and hosts WordPress for people called WordPress Engine. Specifically what WordPress.com does that WordPress.org does not do is they're like a hosting service, right?

6:07Okay. So they provide like really easy setup of your website and they'll host it for you. And then they have like customer service and plugins and all this stuff. Yeah, so you can have a, you too can have a blog. Mm-hmm. That sounds like what Marques is comparing to Squarespace. Yes. Because you can use Squarespace to host you or you can just buy domains from Squarespace or you can just use them as your host. I used to have Google Domains domains. They got bought by Squarespace. Now I am forced into the Squarespace oligarchy. Same. Yes. okay so wordpress engine which is this other company that is a host provider that uses wordpress has been around since about 2010 so they've been around for a really long time now this drama all started at wouldn't you believe it a conference called word camp which i cannot believe people go to yeah because it sounds like the nerdiest thing ever but that's okay 40 of the web 40 of the web it's a conference uh around wordpress that's hosted in portland wait can i also i think the thing confusing me is saying wordpress every time and so this was word camp was hosted by wordpress the foundation yes okay yes so wordpress.

7:16yeah it's confusing wordpress.org open source wordpress.com automatic company but matt mullenweg is like on the is like a chair of the wordpress.org foundation and is the ceo of automatic so there's some weird cross-pollination because it was his idea where he has control over the organization, but he also runs a for-profit company. And this is why this drama is spicy and weird. Okay, fun. Yeah, okay. So at the WordCamp conference, he basically had this whole presentation where he started just directly calling out WordPress Engine and telling people that they should move off of them. And the reason is because in a blog post later, He called the company a cancer to the community because they do not contribute like almost anything back to the open source code of WordPress.org.

8:11Generally, in open source, it's kind of like standard to like if you're using open source code, have engineers that are like building upon it and then pushing that back into the open source version of the project. because the whole point of open source is that the community is getting together to make something really good that everyone can build off of, right? So apparently Matt says that WordPress.com, Automatics company that he is CEO of, contributes 3 ,900 hours per week to the development of the WordPress open source code. Whereas he says that WordPress engine only contributes 40 hours a week to it.

8:47So this story is kind of a mix of like what's legally okay versus what's morally okay. And that's what makes it really interesting. So Matt then sent a cease and desist letter to WordPress Engine for using the abbreviation WP because he says it will mix people up thinking that it's actually WordPress when it's not WordPress. That is exactly the Streamlabs OBS scenario. But wait, did he send the letter to himself? No, no, because he sent it to WP Engine. Okay, wait. So Matt's on the chair of WordPress.org, the foundation. Yes. Also CEO of WordPress.com, a for-profit company. And then WP Engine is a separate company owned by the private equity firm.

9:36Okay. Yeah. WordPress.com and WP Engine are both hosts. Like they host WordPress sites, right? Yes. I got lost a little bit there. No, if you're confused, I don't want the podcast listening to me because we can escape. Am I the only one? I'll be like all screwed. Am I the only one confused by that? I'm trying to keep up. Okay. What's your question? Do you have questions? What's the drama? Okay. Well, the main drama is that Matt Mullenweg, who is the co-founder of the WordPress Foundation and CEO of Automatic, which owns WordPress.com, is angry that WP Engine does not contribute to the open source code of WordPress.org.

10:18Well, they do. Well, they do. Yeah. 40 hours a week, he says, which is one employee. Yeah, sure. Okay. So he sent a cease and desist letter to WP Engine for using a name that makes customers think that WP Engine is WordPress. Because when people go and they want to set up a WordPress site, the SEO probably sometimes directs you to WP Engine and sometimes directs you to WordPress.com. And it's kind of his fault, in my opinion, that he called his for-profit website WordPress.com when WordPress.org is the open source foundation. I don't know. That's kind of confusing. Okay. I can confirm. There's confusion to be had.

11:00There's confusion. Okay. WVEngine then responded with their own cease and desist that claimed that Matt demanded that they send a very large sum of money just days before the WordPress convention. and if they don't send it he was going to carry out a quote scorched earth nuclear approach against this company so he allegedly sent them a text saying he was going to make the case at wordpress camp as to why they're banning wordpress engine in a slide deck called how private equity can hollow out and destroy open source community a story in four parts I would watch that YouTube video I already want to watch it and then he demanded that they pay a licensing fee for the name WordPress or contribute their fair share to the development of WordPress so this story is kind of around like technically open source you can build anything off you want off the open source code and there's nothing legally that says you have to contribute back to it however Matt is very angry that this private equity firm clearly does not care about the development of WordPress, saw an opportunity, saw it runs 40 % of the web, and was like, let's just make a ton of money.

12:11And its name is very similar to WordPress, so it has good SEO already. If you get 1 % of that 40%, you're banking. Yeah. So then WordPress.org banned WP Engine from accessing their servers to actually pull the open source code from, which means that none of their customers could ever update their sites when the WordPress.org Foundation updated the code. And it made it so it was very difficult for WP Engine customers to use the service. Matt then did reverse the ban, but gave them until October 1st to create their own mirror to WordPress.org or resolve their conflict. Anyway, that's most of the drama.

12:49There was an update this morning that it was revealed that Automatic asked for 8 % of WP Engine's revenue either to be paid directly to Automatic or to WP Engine employees to contribute to WordPress.org. but if they chose the 8 % route WP Engine would have to give WordPress.org and Automatic full rights to their timesheets to make sure they were fulfilling their obligations yeah that's a lot it's very confusing, it's very boring but it is kind of wild, I think this is kind of what happens when you have one person who is hardcore about open source who runs the foundation and a for-profit company off of the foundation it's like you're allowing other people to make things based on your code but you're also demanding that they do a thing that they're not actually legally obligated to do yeah yeah but i feel like he's also coming at this from the point of like it's kind of an unwritten rule where like yes it's open source like you should be contributing to it if you're using it uh-huh so like for him to make that demand yes it's illegal or not not legally obligated I guess is the way of phrasing it yeah but it it's kind of fair in my opinion I don't know because it's like like you're using this it's one of those things that's not like legally incorrect but morally incorrect right and um because they're a private equity firm yeah yeah yeah and like the whole point of it is you know you're taking all that again streamlabs obs was like taking all this stuff from an open open broadcast oh yeah whatever it was it was a streaming site or a streaming program that was all open source and then stream labs a for-profit company that was like taking it and they threw obs at the end of their name to the program so people thought it was obs the open source one but really it was a way to make money off of what felt like the name it's uh where do you think this is gonna go you're like where are we at right right the reason that the story is like spicy and kind of important is that it could change the way that open source works um and like or the ability for an organization and foundation to have like such a closed a close affiliation with like a for-profit company because i think that's there's a kind of a conflict of interest there yeah that seems like what people have a strong disagreement with well especially since he said either pay automatic directly which is not wordpress.org and i'm sure that his mindset is like we will have engineers work on the project based on your funds or you contribute directly but we will like look at your timesheets which is i feel like that's just like wild trying to force their hand to just have their employees work on the open source code yeah like i don't think he actually expects them to pay him eight percent you know i mean he asked for it yeah it's like give me a million dollars or invest that in your own company right now like that's basically what he's saying so that they can work on open source yeah it's like yeah you can give me the money and i will gladly take it but like the smarter route is to just have your engineers work on the open source code like everyone else.

15:56Yeah. Yeah. So who knows where this goes? I think a lot of people are just like, this could end up in a legal battle, and that legal battle could change the way that open source organizations work. But yeah, it's spicy because they cut off WP Engine's access for a while, and it made a ton of websites not work properly. But yeah, thank you for explaining that. I'm sure anyone listening well in tune with what's going on was like, that was a terrible example of it, but it's because David had to dumb it down so hard for us to understand. But thank you for doing it for us. Yeah. It's all kind of crazy.

16:39I'm interested to see how it comes out, where this goes, if it goes anywhere, if this is just going to be a public headbutting for a little while. Probably for a little bit. Probably for a little bit. But anyway, we can move on until there's an update on that. Cool. Yeah, sure. All right. Christian time. Sure. So I remember you a couple months ago telling me that he made a Vision Pro YouTube app. Yeah, Juno. And I don't remember exactly what I said, but I'm pretty sure at some point I was like, how long till this gets removed? Sure. Can I explain Juno real quick? Yeah. There's no YouTube app inside the Apple Vision Pro.

17:16Correct. Christian Selig, very popular developer. one we've talked about a million times on here because he made Apollo the Reddit app which recently got destroyed. It was the martyr. The martyr for Reddit going down. And he made this app inside of the Vision Pro to let you watch YouTube. Now it wasn't specifically a YouTube app. It was kind of like a reskin Safari browser that was solely focused on YouTube and like made it feel like a native YouTube app but the way he got around it was kind of like this is it's not using YouTube's API but it's using I'm pretty sure Safari and it's kind of just like a new way of opening a Safari tab inside of YouTube with a full screen player and like skipping play pause different controls and stuff the app store just took it down which yeah you kind of called it was because of Google though it was because of Google YouTube took it down YouTube, Google forced him to take it down, saying it violated their trademark.

18:19Okay. In April, YouTube told Christian that Juno violated YouTube's API turn as a service, but he rebutted to them and said, I don't even use the YouTube API. Okay. So they were just assuming that he was using the YouTube API, apparently. And then after all that, he removed the YouTube logo from the app's homepage and added unofficial to its app store description. but now it's at the point where it's getting actually serious and he has to take it down now famously when the vision pro launched there are a bunch of apps that were missing that everyone was like this is making this headset like way less useful netflix was one of them that still is like has not launched a netflix app apparently youtube is planning on launching a vision pro app in february uh which is interesting because everyone was sort of thinking that google was just doing it because they didn't want apple's product to succeed um but yeah i don't know i'm assuming if they're taking down christians at this point because like if you don't have your own app on a platform and someone makes a third party one they're giving you another way to like watch your service which yeah to me says like yeah which to me is like that's only good for you but them forcing him to take it down tells me that they are planning on soon launching theirs and they just don't want there to be a competitor.

19:36To play devil's advocate too, also if you run YouTube and someone else makes a third-party YouTube app and a lot of people think it's a YouTube app, that's out of your control. So no matter what that person does with that app in the future, people will think it's you. Even if they do lots of good things, that's great for you. But when they do something bad, you can't have that. YouTube does enough bad things by themselves to catch flack. They don't need someone else. Totally true. They want to own those bad things, all of them. so yeah i i guess i wasn't shocked i'm actually surprised that it took this long but at this point now the only way you can watch youtube videos on the vision pro is back to just the browser the safari like going to youtube.com and safari and watching them there i think this is such a view into the future versus what it used to be like in the past on like android phones and early iPhones when everyone was making wrappers for everything to make the experience better and it was just kind of known and open that people are going to be doing this and there were like 20 different Reddit clients and a bunch of different clients for Twitter and like the developer community was so cool and vibrant and then now all of these companies are trying to take back control of their platforms, keep all their users on their platform so that they see the ads that gives them money all this stuff.

20:52The thing about it, it wasn't even it wasn't like advanced or whatever that takes away ads you know it was still playing all of the regular ads because it's still just streaming a youtube video did it allow like off like downloading or something some other there's some something i'm not i don't know sure i'm not let's see i mean clearly the lawyers didn't really know anything about how he built it because they were like you're using our api and he was like no i'm not so i'm sure that google was just like there's a thing that does our thing you should make it stop yeah yeah it's using our name it yeah yeah yeah i will say i am old enough to remember when youtube the app was pre-loaded on every ipod touch and remember that fire logo that it used to have yeah that analog that's skeuomorphic logo analog that's analog that is analog tv i that was like the first piece of tech that i really got for myself as a kid and having the youtube app on the ipod touch like that was that was formative for me oh that was also like basically my first big yeah so uh i remember you know the good the good old collaboration days between apple and youtube but yeah yep this has gone from the app store i will see if end up if we end up getting a youtube app for the vision pro at some point i will say i haven't i haven't actually used my vision pro now in at least two months yeah okay what do you think is for you the most useful time do you think the plane is the most useful time to use it it's great for just casual browsing random stuff but you haven't used it in two months right like very casual gaming so yeah i might i'll take it on my next flight i will marquez doesn't do anything casually well so only a hundred percent all the time yeah there are there There are some movies that I want to watch.

22:45I think one of them was on Apple TV. So I think I will download it on the Vision Pro and watch it on the plane. I will be that guy. Alien. The new one. The first. There's a new one. The 1979. Why is that the one you want to watch on Vision Pro? Because there's a new one and I want to see Alien. There's a lot of them. There's a few. What? We'll see. There's a few. I might end up watching all of them. No, no, no. Because I've known you for a little bit now. I've never heard you be like, I want to go to the movies. That's why I asked. No, I don't. I don't want to go to the movies. He wants to see a Vision Pro.

23:17Okay. Yeah, I don't. Still, cool. This is cool for you. I like this. I like this. He's going to go to the movies with his Vision Pro. No, I'm not going to. I'm going to watch it when it comes out, and I can watch it. This reminds me that I have many... It's not even really a tangent. Just a small thing. Speaking of the movies... See you in 20 minutes. Speaking of the movies... It's a small tangent. Last night, I accidentally went and watched a two-hour children's film in the movie theater. What's the accidentally? yeah how was this an accident so there's a movie called the wild robot that came out and it yes okay look yes it's animated uh-huh okay but it's astrobot 97 yeah look 97 on rotten tomatoes i saw like two people that i follow on twitter being like the wild robot is like really beautiful and really fun i really enjoyed it and i was like huh it might be like one of those animated movies that's like actually made for dolls.

24:09So I didn't look up anything about it. I took a friend. We bought some tickets. Neither of us had read anything about it, looked up anything about it. It was like really hard to watch because it was such a children's movie. This looks awesome. I mean, the animation style is incredible. Yeah. But just the writing and the like the pacing and the fact that there's like orchestral music playing 20 the entire time and there's no like pacing at all. and it's just kind of like fast-paced children's movie and then everyone's happy together and working together all the time it was just it was realistic i don't think that makes a good children's movie i always think like i always keep going back to a bug's life being a good like an underrated movie there's like deep stories and dramas and villains and like it's it's a well-rounded movie even though it's a kid's movie you can still enjoy it as an adult i think that's what makes it a good yeah like shrek yeah yeah you know spongebob ants but some of the real bugs this has like a 98 yeah i'm not okay look to be clear i'm not saying this movie is bad i'm saying it was clearly made for kids and it's really no i didn't know so i kept waiting for there to be some sort of like real like gripping story and it just really wasn't there and i left the movie theater being like man i just literally watched a full kids movie the lights turn on it's just toddlers everywhere dude there were it was there was only like eight people in the theater and they're just kids running and screaming around the entire time i was like oh sorry i can't do this i can't be a next door kind of guy that's what i feel right now look for those kids up lock them in their chairs can't be running we told you it was a 20 minute detour and that was only like five anyway that was my that was my movie theater rant since you will not be watching this in a movie yeah it's perfect uh okay we should take a break we got way more talk about pixel stuff reddit stuff but before we do that i i think we should do some trivia trivia dude so first question friend of the pod christian selig maker of the apollo reddit app which we have covered at length here also pixel pals yeah i was hoping that was gonna be the question no that's not the question because it's awesome and everyone should go get that up but did you know he also has a youtube channel you did i do okay because i got served his video nice his last video was all about making a common tech accessory from scratch that's right can you tell me what he made here's a hint there's one of them in this room right now you don't need to give him a hint well it sounds like you guys both seen his youtube channel there's a 3d print of marquez oh my god i got serve the video and i was like wait he oh he just started a youtube channel i clicked on it he has like multiple videos i was like wow i feel like a terrible friend there's one okay i'll be using the there's one in this room uh heavily that's why i think too good yeah okay all right well i'll be thinking about that and the answers will be at the end like usual we'll be right back

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30:06all right welcome back we got to talk about this pixel 9a leak so i don't know if you've watched the pixel folder view uh i mentioned in that pixel 9 pro folder view that the camera bump on the back doesn't quite look like the rest of the pixels like it's not a visor it's more of like a bubble in the corner and it's just a i kind of wish it was more of a visor it's sort of it's a square actually either way it's not a visor right now we have leaks of what may be the next a series pixel the budget pixel pixel 9a and for those who are uh not watching in video it also is not a visor matter of fact it's just an essential phone it's the essential phone like it's like uh it's a flat-sided glossy backed big old bezel big not huge but like it's an a For today, that's the big bezel.

30:57Even bezels, hole punch cut out, and totally separate flash next to the camera module, dual cameras. It looks very Essential Phone, but with a giant G on the back. And a huge camera. How are we feeling? Is this boring? I mean, it's black. There's no colors leaked in this particular render. I mean, if it was made out of the same materials as the Essential Phone, maybe I'd be excited. That's a super good part. Ceramic. Ceramic. people forget that phone back in the day was like pretty well spec'd it was really well built and it was like a 400 bucks right i think it was 549 or something and it had a headphone jack well oh wait oh wait hey you could buy an attachment i don't think they ever sold that attachment though right it was on the road map but i don't think they ever put it out i thought they eventually did the first one was that 360 camera yeah maybe they did sell it anyway the the pixel 9a will probably be very very predictable it will probably be 449 or something like that it will probably be a tensor g4 it will probably be the old camera sensors regular and ultra wide yeah it will probably be do we think it'll have in-screen fingerprint or power button fingerprint that's the only thing i'm not sure what does it look like i would prefer this render looks like two regular buttons so i would guess i guess probably probably in screen but maybe not ultrasonic because it'd be cheaper that because they're ultrasonic yeah and the new ones probably optical probably 128 gigs of storage gemini 8 gigs ram did you explain why this looks like the essential phone because there's no camera bump yeah right sorry recessed camera yeah it's very flat as well which i like i think a lot of people are gonna like i'm hoping that means enough battery as well like go ahead and add battery if you want to flatten out the back of the phone not have a camera bump and have more battery great love that um that just generally means the sensors are way smaller right also 100 true they got the reason we have the camera bumps on these phones is because the sensors are huge and they have a large z-axis dimension which means you just need to protrude it out the back yeah so yeah smaller sensors equal smaller camera bump i think the conversation with pixel for me is still mostly around like is the next version actually going to be like a huge jump up for tensor is it actually going to be the exciting like well this is going to be g4 right this one's not going to have the new one it'll be pixel 10 generation that has that stuff yeah so still wait for that but that's the question is like okay should i should i buy the pixel 9 series generation stuff or should i be waiting for this alleged amazing huge efficiency update for the 10 and the Tensor G5, if they still call it that.

33:37Unsure. Yeah. A lot of rumors about that. Well, for the hundredth time, they're releasing this allegedly in spring, like usual. I want to say. And they need to stop doing that because I know why they do it in that they're just like, the parts are so similar to the regular phone that people aren't buying them anymore. So if they release a new thing, but it uses a lot of the same parts, they're technically just selling more of the phone. But when they do this like this, the 9 is out only like six months before the 10 yeah the 9a six months before 10 so it's just like i don't want to buy this phone when the 10's about to come out but if it's half the price then maybe people won't care what if they did it the apple way and instead of calling it the 9a they called the pixel se yeah so you don't think about the 9 as much it's just a budget pixel and the way that apple does it is they only release an se every few years true yeah oh yeah because Aren't there rumors about the U.S.E.?

34:32It's going to be like iPhone X body. That's what people are saying. XR maybe? Yeah. Which is annoying because I wish it was a mini. They should just make it the iPhone mini body. That was his snitch shot up. He was his ears perked up. How many times have we had this? Waveform podcast. I sleep. I'm reading the Tesla self-driving case. Like legal. I'm trying to decide if it's worth talking about. But I heard iPhone mini and was like, wait. I just want to say I appreciate that this leak is six months until this probably comes out. Yeah. We are out there. Yeah. Well, it's Google. I know. It's so on brand.

35:10Yeah. They are not good at keeping secrets. Also, do we think this is going to be more expensive? Because the 8A was$4.99, I think. The rumor is that it's the same price. Oh, it is. I thought it was$4.99. Pixel? I think it was$4.99. It was$4.99. We keep jacking the price up every year. We don't do it. We can go higher. Well, not every year. Don't get on us. Yeah, true. I don't think you can launch this higher than$500. But what if it has all the Gemini stuff? They also increased the price of the standard Pixel 9 by$100, remember? They did. Yeah. That's what makes this, like, is this a good buy or not?

35:42It makes it a better value. It really depends on the price here. Because the 8A was, like, almost the same price as the on-sale 8. Should we, okay, should we bet on the launch price of the Pixel 9A? $499. $499. Let's do it. $499? $549. Oh, that's what I was going to say. Okay, I'll go$599. oh my god if it's 599 i hope that's wrong do a really hope that's wrong yeah i don't even have a camera do they add a bunch of ram is that how they could it's supposed to have eight gigs of ram probably for the ai stuff because all the all the pixel nines have i think the reason the regular pixels could go up is because you start getting to that next iteration of like 500 right or even 250 maybe so like 500 feels like the limit of what these middle range lower end phones are we've had flagships but like the pixel ones were under a thousand so they could bump that up to get to the thousand they shouldn't well whatever they can do whatever they want this feels like if you go 549 if you go 599 on this that's crazy that better be on sale in like a week right after it comes out yeah i think that's bad every year goes up by a little bit i bet it's going up again dang 499 you guys remember the pixel 4a best value phone ever correct 349 i gave that thing a trophy that's wild yeah anyway okay so wait you were just reading about pixel uh about tesla full self-driving did you guys see the cyber truck is slowly getting a roll out of full self-driving i'm scared of that so i just want you to know when you see a cyber truck on the road that thing might be driving.

37:14Yeah. Just want you to know. Are you turning yours on? I guess I'm in the early wave. I don't use autopilot that much, but I kind of want to see what happens. I got tailgated by a Hummer EV the other day and almost thought about quitting. I've been seeing a lot of them recently. It actually flew up on me and I was like, hold on a minute. I've seen quite a few recently. Hummer EVs. Yeah. They're out there. Was it the pickup truck or the SUV? there's a pickup truck because then he blew by me on like two lanes to the right because i was recently reading a comparison of the hummer suv to like the r1s and some other electric pickup trucks and i realized the hummer is only two rows it's like by far the biggest one but it's only two rows for some reason i thought that was weird yeah it's gigantic also for those who might not to see in the silverado ev review um the silverado pickup truck gets well over 400 miles of range but i missed the silverado completely it came over it came out really recently we got the we had it though i totally missed the full size this was the one where i was like it is it actually going to get this much range because everyone keeps telling me like oh yeah the rivian's fine and like the f-150 lightning is fine but just don't forget about the silverado gets 450 miles of range that's crazy are you serious how i do you really think it's going to get that much range but then it comes out and we test it the thing has a 205 kilowatt hour battery it is enormous it is extremely heavy just like the hummer but the hummer is not aerodynamic or trying to be efficient it's got off-road tires trying to be inefficient it has no intention of getting a ton of range it has a thousand horsepower but the silverado ev not a sporty 475 miles of range on the dash and like a very legit like if you drive like a grandma i could get 430 probably that's so really but that's really good yeah for a truck but the only way they could do that was by having a 6 000 pound battery yeah of it so yeah yeah that's where we're at also the reason we have been seeing way more hummer evs is because according to good car bad core automotive sales data in 2022 hummer sold 854 in 2023 they sold 3260 and this year so far they have sold 8 903 Why are people buying so many?

39:37Aren't they still expensive? What's going on? Expensive? Look at this graph. What is happening? They're taking off for some reason. Sorry, how many did you say were sold this year? 9 ,000. 9 ,000? Yeah. That's also how many R1Ss were sold this year. Really? Yeah, 10 ,000. But is Rivian going down in sales? No, that's... Yeah, maybe a little. They sold 23 ,000 last year, so maybe they're down a little. but they sold a lot in the last part of the year so it's probably similar last year crazy that is a lot of hummers why are people buying these who is buying these maybe for home battery backups if you're watching the dishes and just bought a hummer ev tweet at us zero tweets that's wild maybe one well shout out to the hummer i'm fishing all right andrew you want to explain this uh reddit uh david probably actually knows okay more about this than i do i saw it and assumed that you could explain it to us.

40:34I don't feel like censoring the next three minutes. Okay, David. What is happening? All right, I'll try to make this less boring. It's not WordPress. No, I can get more angry at this, so don't worry. I'm ready. If you remember, you know that meme where it's like the gamer sitting back? Reddit? Okay. Okay, so if you remember, last year there was a big Reddit revolt because they basically made their API completely inaccessible because they made it so expensive that no third-party app developers could really feasibly run a third-party Reddit client unless they charge for it. Well, there's like one or two.