Tesla Roadster and Fisker Ocean Updates?

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0:33What is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez. I'm Andrew. And Miles is joining us today. Hi. Yeah, we have a section we want to talk about specifically with some car stuff, but there's a lot also to go over today. So we have, let's see, Vision Pro units cracking down the middle, kind of weird. Zenfone possibly taking the path that we were hoping they wouldn't take. Andrew switched his daily driver and we're gonna wrap it up with some autofocus updates with Fisker Ocean stuff but first we have some content that we love that we wanted to share uh actually you had two from the same youtuber yeah it's from Ludwig I've talked about him a bunch on this uh this pod because I think he has one of the best some of the most knowledge of online streaming because of how big he was on Twitch and how big he was on YouTube streaming but he also uh put out a like hour-long interview with Neil Mohan, right?

1:30Mohan, which was really good, really funny also. Neil was great in it. And while he gave PR answers, they were like fun PR answers and felt a little better. Yeah. And then he also did a quick video on Colin, or Colin Samir did a video looking at his, how he works with his channel, where he works, and how he's kind of doing his like, him as a YouTuber and the people working under him. And then also this other company he's doing, which is more of he's building it and hoping it takes off. after him i haven't watched that one yet it's good i like it's really good i mean colin and samir stuff's fantastic and ludwig is just super entertaining that's fair yeah i watched the neo of youtube by the way he was the chief of product of youtube now he runs the whole thing they addressed like every time his name comes up in our comment section people are always like that's the nft guy like he oh he's the the ceo that wanted to do nft stuff they talk about that briefly yeah um but yeah ludwig is great i would love for him to jump on the pot i think you two could talk about youtube and twitch and just on social media in general for probably hours and it would be yeah enthralling so uh if you hear this and you're in new jersey don't know why you would be but come stop by if you're ever if you're ever out here uh for sure but let's talk about what you two really want to talk about yeah how do i how do i how do i explain this so elon was drunk tweeting last night yeah i you remember you guys remember the tesla roadster anybody buddy what is it yeah were you born then do you remember i think i was just coming out of the womb when like murmurs of that came about yeah yeah they're back in 2017 there was a they had this tesla semi event and it wasn't really expected but at the end of the event they were like by the way there's some cargo on the tesla semi truck and they rolled this car out the back and it was the new updated second gen 2020 tesla roadster and they went over all the specs and how it would have 600 miles of range and a 200 kilowatt hour battery and a zero a one and a half second zero to 60 all these crazy things uh i think it would have like an 8.8 second quarter mile just ridiculous stuff and then they gave people drives in a prototype and then we never heard from it again did they say 2020 right from the start 2020 okay yeah so 2020 came and went and 2021 came and went and 2022 came and went and 2023 came and went now it's 2024 in the time since 2017 there have been various waves that this thing has made impress where like elon or franz will say something or tweet something like oh yeah when it finally comes out it'll be better than we originally promised and we're like great but also when uh and you know tesla's notoriously late with things but this is the one vehicle i think you're you're on team this is never coming out he's got notes i i was right but i i feel like i'm really just interested in like trying to understand what elon is trying to accomplish with this car because really most people are not going to be interested in a two-door impractical sports car from tesla that's kind of where the you know McLarens and Ferraris of the world kind of yeah shine and then he's talking about making the car fly let's let's go over what he tweeted and then let's start with that I think uh Miles wants to debunk him sort of and uh I would love to get into the physics of it so okay Elon last night tweets and this is like Tuesday when this is being uh tweeted and now you're seeing this on Friday but something might have been said in the meantime but he says tonight we radically increased the design goals for the new Tesla Roadster.

5:15There will never be another car like this if you could even call it a car. And then he replies, Tesla slash SpaceX collab. Then he replies, production design complete and unveil end of year aiming to ship next year. And then says, I think it has a shot at being the most mind-blowing product demo of all time. First of all, humane pin AI, most mind-blowing product demo of all time. So big shoes to fill, but... Sure, of course. this is shades of like what's been talked about before I think years ago we've talked about like the SpaceX package how there's going to be a base roadster which is just an electric two door and then there's a SpaceX package version which is going to have cold gas thrusters from rocket technology on the car which lets it do this crazy one and a half second zero to 60 and maybe they put them on the front of the car for better braking and maybe they put them under the car and it can hop short distances I don't know why you would want to do any of this stuff on the street or even to be honest how street legal any of that is but to answer your question i always thought it was just halo car stuff this will be low volume which is why it's the lowest priority on the totem pole but if they can claim that they have the fastest zero to 60 of any production car and it's a tesla that pays for itself but will the fastest zero to 60 version of the the roadster actually be a production car variant because i feel like all the spacex stuff yeah is gonna you know, I feel like it's going to be very hard to make it road legal based on what he's claiming.

6:46I mean, do you remember that Key and Peele sketch of the basketball player after winning the game, telling all the kids that they can fly? You can fly. Go to the... Yes, I remember that. And then they tried to fly. I feel like something very similar could happen. I mean, having a sub one second zero to 60, that's unfathomable. Yeah. So a lot of things have happened since the original 2017 announcement, specifically a couple other fully electric hypercars have actually gotten unveiled and at least started to be demoed and shipped. The one that comes to mind for me is the Rimats Nevera, which we did a video about.

7:22We got to shoot with Triple F, and that obviously is a two-plus-million-dollar car, but same flagship concept. They made a fully electric, two-door, impractical sports car with ballistic acceleration, and that just as a product was entertaining enough for some people to be really into it. And there's a couple other things kind of like that that have also come out. So I feel like there's a chance that Elon was like, oh, okay, the Roadster no longer beats those cars at anything. So the one thing that does make this stand out is if we do this SpaceX collab. And just to be clear, I'm not a rocket scientist.

8:01So all I really understand - Yeah, this is just, I don't know, maybe it's a shock to you guys. But all I really understand about the cold gas thrusters is that it's compressed air. Like when you see the rockets that are like self-landing, like reorient themselves in midair, they're using cold gas thrusters to push a very heavy rocket in midair to be vertically oriented to like land. And I'm pretty sure when International Space Station astronauts are doing like spacewalks, they have like little cold gas thrusters to like move around. I think that's what that is. I mean, like without knowing anything about it, if I'm judging the size of a cold air thruster that moves a rocket ship versus the size of a cold air thruster that moves a person in space with no gravity.

8:46Yeah. We're talking very different sizes and something to move a car that can already do zero to 60 in two seconds. Like how? Yeah, I don't know the sizing of it. But also in 2017, he said there will be 10 of them. seamlessly put around the car yeah i have no idea like what what does that entail there's not a ton of space in the model s like batteries are already taking up a lot of space in evs where are these thrusters going to be what do they look like how big are they how are they powered have you seen they're called a reaction control systems and space talk and have you seen what they look like on like the old school nasa spaceships no they're like these here i'll put a picture in the slack they're like these borderline like seussian horns on oh seussian dr seuss and my thing is like the weight right power to weight that's that's a real thing and so i've done some just basic rudimentary math comparing this to other cars that also have like very high or very low zero to 60s so 911 turbo with lightweight package that's 640 horsepower does like a 2.1 zero to 60 miles coming with receipts 0.18 horsepowers per pound remats nevera 1800 horsepower 1.80 to 60 0.35 uh horsepower per pound sf 90 xx that's 1.9 second zero to 60 that's like 1015 horsepower yeah that's a 0.267 horsepower per pound and then the fastest zero to 60 ever recorded is the McMurtry Sperling.

10:25That's a 1.4 seconds here to 60, and that has a 0.45 horsepower per pound. So this is going to have to be like an all-wheel drive car. I'm not sure if we're going to have tri-motors or quad motors, but that's going to add more weight. And if you actually want to have realistic range, because a lot of cars in these segments will have like, realistically, like 50 to 100 miles of real range if you're actually getting on it. so this car will probably have to have somewhere around 3 000 horsepower and weigh under 4 000 pounds hell yeah theoretically achieve somewhere close to a one second zero to 60 or less so here's a wrench to throw in this the mcmurtry that you mentioned does have a bit of a trick which is it has a force fan yeah so it is it has a fan underneath the car that sucks it down towards the ground to give the tires more grip than they would if it was just the regular weight of the car it's possible that you could put thrusters on top of the car pushing it down to give it a similar effect so maybe you don't need as much horsepower if you're pushing the car down to give it more grip maybe but then then again the spiraling is not road legal not even close yeah not even close they said they're going to make a road legal version but i haven't seen that yet so and it won't be as fast though right exactly yeah this is this is the thing about electric cars now is the thing that they can all do is give you a lot of power and they will all be heavy so the thing about you know the ev6 gt and the model s plaid and the roadster and whatever other fast evs come out the nevera is they have really powerful motors and in order to give those motors all of the power that they need.

12:08They need a big battery. So yeah, I feel like if a car is able to achieve all of this, it by default with today's technology has to be heavy. And that's a bit concerning for the rest of the dynamics of the car. But I don't know, maybe all they're after is the headline and the party trick. He doesn't never say this is a street legal car, does he? I guess that's not implied. Yeah. Is it? I mean, I assumed the roadster, you would have to tell people by now if they're buying a non-street legal car. so i feel like this is implied it will be street legal but i mean they're no in that sense people seven years ago put down very big deposits for a car that now they're saying is being completely radically redesigned yeah so it seems like they don't give a shit what they told people like a while ago like you remember the math of how much people would how much people paid oh yeah and if you invested it in tesla stock by itself yeah there is there's two versions of the roadster There's the regular Roadster deposit, which you have given Tesla$50 ,000 that you're never getting back.

13:08There's also the Founder's Edition, which is one of the first thousand, which allegedly will have all the options in the SpaceX package. In which case, you gave Tesla$250 ,000 seven years ago that you're never getting back. So I hope, unless you didn't know this. if you had invested that money in tesla stock you could have bought a very cool car you could have bought like six six fisker oceans yeah you could be rolling in the deep if you know what i'm saying but you know people did actually buy that car or put the money down for the 250 000 roadster so i you know i'm sure there was something in the order agreement which is like this car may change by the time it comes out i'm sure yeah but yeah that that's just kind of when he says the end of this year i i fully expect that it's not so he said this year unveiled the end of this year shipping next year right which is funny because they already unveiled this car seven years ago unveil part two yeah unveil the real thing trust me bro so this will be what do they do they have another event they're like all right here it is again for real this time i know we said it would be coming out a while ago but like here it actually is that's what i thought this was when you posted it in slack i came in this morning i was telling miles like oh what's the event going to be like and he's like no no that was just elon drunk tweeting yeah do do you think like if you had to put money on it or bet something that really meant to you that if you think you're getting your free roadster do you what would you bet i would say eventually yes you think you're eventually going to get the free roadster yeah i just will throw here's the thing about i was telling you this before about tesla tesla is one of the few companies with the exception of the roadster that when they unveil a car they almost always actually ship the design that they promise people pretty close i think people would argue like close enough you know obviously like there's like mirrors and like little handles and things like that but like when you see a concept car from another company like the original mission e from porsche versus the tycan like there's big changes and i think that's the that's the knock of a lot of concept cars is we're never going to see this on the streets.

15:22And when Tesla unveils a car, minus all the specs, those change a lot. But the design of the car actually ends up on the street. Cybertruck being the most recent, most absurd example. So Roadster is like this, like albatross around their neck, where it's like, it doesn't make any sense to ship this. It's an expensive, impractical car that won't have high volume. But it would be sick. And it would be the halo car effect for EVs in general, because no one can afford a two million dollar rematch but maybe there's a couple roadsters on the road and that makes tesla look cool do you think with this radical redesign it'll cost more i have no idea i think i think yes absolutely if they're actually going to throw this spacex tech into the car like truly i think it i think it has to be which is why i'm skeptical as to whether you're actually gonna get a free roadster now like oh you get a roadster for like 100k now interesting yeah i guess there's a lot of questions that surround that.

16:20Number one is this will be an option on the car, right? This will be something you can get or can decide not to get. Two is if I gave you$250 ,000 seven years ago, I should just get the car probably. But then also like what did that R &D look like between then and now? Like how much have they spent? I don't really know. And how many other roadsters will be bought to like make Tesla money? Also maintenance. Are they just going to have to hire SpaceX employees to work at every tesla dealership some guy shows up and is like my my eighth thruster went out bro like it's it's done there's a bird fluid yeah hold up we gotta fly on a rocket scientist real quick that's a great that's a great question as if getting your tesla didn't take fixed take long enough already yeah this is gonna add a little bit to it also noise this will be a loud car yeah rockets aren't quiet yeah like a jet engine at full thrust is over 120 decibels yeah that's a jet engine yeah is that the same as cold air see i don't know enough about exactly rocket engines yeah it's not gonna be quiet not that people you know the thing about sports cars is they're not quiet so maybe that's not a problem but no but there are laws that have certain decibel levels of what a car can be especially in california they they crack down on that yeah yeah but i mean there's a lot of loud cars that maybe if it's so loud and it breaks the decibel meter then they can't get you because they can't see what the number was i'm realizing i think i just need to read more on the laws of what can be street legal and whether or not you can bend it because there are lots of little things like like you're talking about the noise levels okay if i just drive around the car like normal without the thrusters on then it's quiet enough to pass but it has a feature that might be too loud so that does that feature being not road legal means you can't use the feature on the road or you can't use the car on the road you can only use it 500 times yeah i'm just i don't know if a one one non-street legal feature makes the entire car not street legal that's actually true because the bugatti chiron super sport 300 plus or whatever that's a 300 mile an hour car but you can only go 300 miles an hour if you have someone from bugatti basically unlock that feature for you you couldn't just go down fairfax and hit 300 miles an hour right so if this car has a crazy spacex booster package that you can only unlock in certain perfect situations when the steering wheel is facing zero degrees true north on a certain road is that cool to ship to everyone i guess i don't know honestly probably it's terrifying but probably i mean and then if you get caught using it that would be the cool version of fiskars 500 like boost limit if i could only do a sub one second zero to 60 in my roadster like 500 times i'm cool with that because that's actually like that's actually insane yeah yeah i think what i I think what Elon says when he means this is probably the coolest tech demo is that's when you get to use this feature is it's like when you're at a drag strip or something, then you get to unlock it with a special mode.

19:34And this is when you can do your cool, like viral video dance of like, look, my car jumps and flies and goes zero to 60 in one second. It's weird because it's just like the the best case scenario for this feels like a month's worth of YouTube videos and then no one ever cares about it again. Hey, that's that's a lot of promo. that's a lot of PR you're right over there you're just fawning over the new roadster I was curious did he mention whether you would like pull up to a cold air station and get a new tank or are they going to put an air compressor that just annihilates the battery I think a lot of air compressors there's air all over the place but like no like an air compressor in the car sorry yeah yeah you need so I think I think this has been detailed slightly on Twitter which the details are fuzzy to me but they said something about like the back seats of this package will be because the roadster has back seats we'll replace that with the compressors and the cold air canisters and all that i didn't know this was a two plus two it is a two plus two but with this package it would be two seats and then behind you is a ton of compressed air maybe and some compressors yeah it's but this is all just that's the thing is none of this is on twitter's website this is just elon twitter so which is not real we can only we can only go official based on what's on tesla.com but there is a ton of other details and random things that have been said on elon's twitter and we i don't know what part of that will make it to reality and to the website and to the car that ships no clue i guess my my final question is let's say it's road legal there's a version you can buy and drive on the road that's capable of a sub one second zero to 60 it's quick it looks nice range is acceptable for i guess something that's capable of this let's say around like 200 miles right which is ev6 gt range is this something you would want to buy and keep in your your stable you know a lot of people have a fun car that's a totally impractical summer weekend fun car and that seems pretty fun i don't i i did put in like i have a deposit down for an actual order but i also have sitting in my tesla.com account we'll put it on the screen a founder's edition referral reward or whatever it's called so whatever happens to that i don't know but that seems like it would be really fun i don't know how long it'll be fun but zero to 60 in one second doesn't feel like it would get old very fast what comes first that roadster or lane gets her driver's license how old do you have to 16 years or something i'll go bold i'll go roadster that's the bold answer okay i got a question for you guys he said this was the coolest tech demo right which makes me think he just saw the tech demo and was hyped and started tweeting about it what do you think the tech demo is because looking at a car goes zero to 60 i feel like is not that cool as a spectator so the thing that tesla does at every single one of their events when they unveil a new car is they go take people out for a brief drive in it and watching people ride along in a cyber truck is like not that exciting but every person that got in the cyber truck and did the two second like pull down the back straight of hawthorne was like they got back and they're like this is the coolest thing i've ever seen and i think the tech demo for this car i don't think they've actually done it in person yet but i think they did the napkin math and they were like, yeah, if we put two thrusters here, two here, and two here, it could jump and fly and do 0-60 in one second.

23:07And feeling that from the inside of the car is the coolest tech thing anyone's ever experienced. What about from outside of the car? Like, on a live stream, how are they going to demo this cool... I still think it's cool. It's just going to be YouTube videos. Do you remember Ellis' face? Yeah, I was going to say the Navara video. No, but that's what I mean. You need to be one of the people physically in the car to experience these things. there's a lot of youtube videos of reactions remember when they first started coming out and there's launch reactions of like ludicrous mode like those videos went viral like those those blew up back in like 2015 2016 because it was like this crazy new thing and you're like i wonder what that feels like a roller coaster with a steering wheel is there anything out there that could be used as a basis of comparison to show how insane the sub one second zero to 60 is like in a tech demo that new red bull drone well no one can feel that i was gonna say like an actual roller coaster like the fastest roller coaster that just launches from zero i think there's got to be like a one and a half second roller coaster i think it might his idea of the coolest tech demo might just be the the roadster taking brief flight not like actually ascending into the air but like catching maybe like a few seconds of air yeah which seems like completely useless but super cool.

24:23And that guy did it in San Francisco already, didn't he? Unfortunately, yes. With a plaid. I was looking at the Reddit thread on the Tesla subreddit and just if everyone thinks we're haters or I know a lot of people think I'm a Tesla hater. I'm a Tesla hater. But these were the four top comments on the Tesla subreddit at the time of recording this. First one. So in other words, it's delayed again. Next one. that's one way to say the design is far from finished and production won't start until 2027 at the earliest then some something's telling me two hundred thousand dollars is not going to cover it bingo and then do those goals include making a version that will be sold to customers so it seems like even the tesla subreddit isn't really i think completely sold on these tweets i think a lot of people have given up on the roadster very fairly yeah it's been a long time and uh yeah i think it's pretty irrational to expect it to come out anytime soon 2030 that's a that's six more years and what would you bet it will be well well type three what before or after 2030 hmm based on what i know because that's the thing do you know something we don't know no no that's that's the thing is all i know is what we just keep getting on twitter which is they've improved it also here's the other thing and i want to ask someone at tesla this how much of the roadster promises were based on assumptions about improvements in technology based on a currently available tech like when they showed the roadster in 2017 some people don't remember this it said it would have a 600 mile range it also said it would have a 200 kilowatt hour battery they said that on stage with today's tech that's a 6 000 pound battery easily just close to seven so is that assuming an improvement in technology that would make that only a 3 000 pound battery or did they plan on shipping a 7 000 pound sports car the plaid is over 100 right the plaid is a as a 90 it's a 100 ish kilowatt hour battery and that car is like 4 800 pounds yes so you could nearly so they were going to ship a 200 kilowatt hour battery so when tesla says these things are they saying i think by a certain point if we're going to ship this car by 2020 with these new battery types and this new cooling that we're planning and with enough advancement sufficiently we'll be able to ship this reasonably with 200 kilowatt hours and normal weight or did they go yeah we'll ship it with today's tech i just feel like there has to be some consideration for the future what is normal weight for a roadster not like a six thousand pounds for a sports car i mean the rim out weighs more than the plaid it does but it also has quad motors yeah and it's a it's a suspension miracle and like it's a two million dollar car but yeah civic is what like three thousand pounds and i only know that because of comparing it to the hummer ev's battery yeah which is like three thousand pounds so when you ask me 2030 and all i have to go by is they just change the goal posts i need to know if they're basing it on today's tech Or if they're going, I think by next year we could probably improve this, that, and the other, and maybe.

27:42Didn't they say the Cybertruck was supposed to be 500 or 600 in its, like, form? They did, yeah. They miss on specs a lot. They ship the design, but they miss on specs. So it's late with a design you love with a different set of specs. Let's change the love part. Well, some Cybertruck people love the design of Cybertruck. We went to Wawa yesterday, and some guy was like, man, looks so much better in person. Really? Yeah. There's someone parked outside looking at it probably every time I go to the kitchen. Yeah. I turn sentry mode on just because I want to see people. And literally in the last two days, there was like seven or eight different clips of people like taking pictures, poking it, looking inside it.

28:21Like it's whatever you think of it. They're stealing Alex's fingerprint off the side of it. Yeah, which is still there. I do want to say I think it does look better in person compared to what I saw online. Yeah. yeah so yeah the question i i still have is what on earth are the specs guys what is i think they're still trying to figure that out yeah they're probably scrambling now because i don't think anyone expected that tweet to come out last night engineers are like oh got it okay i guess we're doing it just open their task app it's gonna be a long one called hire spacex friends i was doing some reading on jalopnik and also using some unit converters and um if it let's assume like the roadster actually can accelerate to zero to 60 in just like one even second that's already about 2.7 g's for a second which is not like an insane amount of g-force but it's not nothing but by the time you start getting sub one second like even at like 0.86 seconds you're already now at like five point something G's, which if you hold for three or four seconds, the average person like runs the risk of blacking out.

29:34And any faster than that, the G forces alone can like break your ribs. So, and I'm assuming like the SpaceX people know this because, you know, the space part. They put people in rockets. Yeah, so like... I think this is definitely bursts. Is it worth a car going this fast if a person can't be inside of it? No, yeah, it has to be able to have a person. Yeah, right? Yeah. No, it's definitely a burst. You can't have rocket-sized tanks on this car. It's got to be small canisters of air and small bursts. Right, but even if you're approaching 7Gs for 6-7 seconds, you could black out. I think it would be 1 second of bursts.

30:16I would hope so. Do we think that Tesla-SpaceX is something they're going to sell? what do you mean or is it just going to be a tech demo showing like some of the cool things that they are you going to be able to get a spacex badge on your roadster i think they would love to do oh yeah if the tech is in there that's 100 going to happen yeah i think they're gonna i think they're gonna try it speaking of other cars that are never coming out uh we have one more car thing we want to talk about which is a mark german tweet slash report that apple has officially canceled their internal car project which we've also belovedly been calling titan i'm pretty sure we really project titan project titan they're shifting some of the employees to generative ai teams i'm sure some other people are not going to be with the company anymore but for the longest time we were wondering like what does an apple car look like does it charge upside down like what's the deal with an apple car that would have been really interesting to see i put out my hot take on twitter which is i missed that well apple doesn't need to make a car to control everyone's cars and nine out of ten people just put car play on the car anyway no matter what car they have so they're fine not spending trillions of dollars to make a car they air powered the apple car well air power was announced oh fair this is just like we've been working for 10 years internally on hundreds of millions of dollars of development on something this is multi-billion dollar for sure I believe that.

31:44Wow. Yeah. I like your theory, but I always thought that Apple was doing this just to have another category to get into for more growth. It's true. Because they're kind of like plateauing. It's true. I think Neelai from The Verge has put it best. Like when you are a company the size of Apple, the thing you have to do that moves the needle for real for your company is like, I guess we could be a bank. I guess we could be a financial services. We could be a car company. like you the things you add to to apple to move the needle have to be gigantic and this is one of those things where it's like okay yeah we could theoretically just add being a car company to the list of things that we do buy exxon baby buy exxon mobile and fire everyone that's exactly what i was thinking apple you could move the needle so far you just saved all this money on research and What are you going to spend it on?

32:37Buy and shut down ExxonMobil. For the PR. Yeah, for the PR. Think of the keynote sketch you could do. Think about all the carbon credits. You would be carbon neutral forever by shutting down ExxonMobil. You just look at their plans for the next 10 years and they're like, all right, that, gone, us, heroes, the end. I think Apple's going to be fine regardless. But what I'm most excited to see is like probably five, six years from now, some ex-Apple employee is going to just drop a bunch of like sketches or renders of what this car was supposed to look like. Yeah, make that 20 years. Probably with Apple, probably just so he can make sure he's like, he can still live afterwards.

33:20And that's when everyone's going to be like, man, what we could have had. It would have been so great. and to be fair it was super impressive how secretive vision pro was for so long because when you when they finally announced it like being on that campus and seeing employees like i've been working on this and hiding it from my family for nine years and i'm so excited it's finally coming out and i'm like jesus that's a long time and it didn't leak at all nobody saw i mean it leaked a little bit you saw patents and stuff but like the thing came out as a true surprise and i wonder how much like they've had to hide to keep the car secret like little things have leaked and we've started to name it project titan and we knew that they're working on it and spending money and hiring people but no one's ever seen any sketches or anything like that which is crazy do you think they did any prototypes they have some version of tried something i guess yeah how far did they get i don't know how far they got do they have a clay car somewhere down there underneath Craig's office?

34:17A clay car, for sure. I don't think they probably got to anything driving. The New York Times reported that they had been, quote, testing the car on public roads. But, like, we would have known about that. I was like, that can't be true. Maybe they were testing tech in, like, other cars. I mean, something that people do often is, like, test mules. So Ferrari, all the time, they'll, you know, they're replacing the 812, and they'll throw the engine and suspension and, like, a Roma or something, so no one can know what it looks like. That's possible, but like, what would that go into? I know. And a feel-out.

34:51There's like Priuses driving around, and people see Priuses around Apple Park, and they don't realize it's like some Apple Vision Pro driving a car. Yeah, what does Tim drive? Honestly. Black Air Forces. You think Tim drives? Yeah, I like, that's a question. What does Tim drive? Tim Cook for listeners. Okay, I'm going to look this up, and then we're going to. Sickest garage ever full of just like manual sports cars in bed. I mean, the Steve Jobs story was like the opposite where he had like the same SLR. I think he had like a silver Mercedes. The McLaren SLR? No, no. He had an SLS possibly black.

35:28It was a pretty nuts. SLS black series? Yeah. It was definitely an AMG SLS. I'm just not. Hold on. Apparently two years ago he never wanted to put plates on it. So he bought a new one every year. So he never had to. In California, you don't have to put front plates on your car for like the first two months. There's a grace period. So he just bought a new one every two months. So let me find out what kind of car this is. It might have been a CLS. According to two years ago, he drives a 520i. Tim Cook? Yeah. The Volkswagen? Interesting. No, that's a BMW. Oh, okay. Okay, thank you. Meh. Is that the one with the car key at least?

36:01I have no idea. With the iPhone key? No. that was if that's the picture that you're looking at that's like a four-cylinder just and those four-cylinder yeah says he he owns a bmw 5 series and a porsche boxster what i will say is i've seen lots of articles about what cars people own including about myself that are super wrong i mean you have that nsx what are they saying there's a lot of articles that think i have cars that i don't so i just i would say that that i would take that with a grain of salt i mean other than your garage full of teslas what other cars do you have the only cars i own are the 911 and the rivian just so you know is that it that's it that's the only cars i own but you have a legal hybrid truck on i have an order sure but there's articles that say crazy things so he also has a roadster on order that's also also on order so i would yeah you know some of these cars may come out someday but the apple car definitely won't do you have a two-car garage yeah you're gonna need a bigger garage the cyber truck things go through the cyber truck because i've been parking ridges cyber truck in the garage because parking it outside bad idea uh it is the closest anything's ever come to not fitting in the garage i have to fold the mirrors in to get in the garage door and i have to pull up the nose of the truck to like three inches from the front and it closes three inches from the back.

37:22So it is absolutely snug in the garage. Wait, how do you get around it? There's room to the left and right. I said the door? No, but like if it's... The garage is wider than the door. Yeah, but so like if you park, what side is the door to get inside the house on? There's a door in the garage. Yeah, but like if you pull into the garage and the door's to the right. You can't get around it, yeah. Yeah, so like if you happen to park on the left, you couldn't get around it. I have to leave the garage. and come in a different door yes it's it's that it's that snug but yeah it technically fits so there you go it was not the black it was a standard sl 55 amg tuned the steve jobs car that's disappointing steve jobs doesn't seem like an amg black kind of guy i don't know i mean that would be the turtleneck wow if it was well i think there's only one thing left to do here

38:22trivia oh that confused me i'm doing a long pause remember oh you got trivia all right in 2017 during the tesla semi event elon explained how the second generation tesla roadster would put gasoline cars to shame specifically i remember the line he used he He said, driving a gasoline car is going to feel like a steam engine with a side of what egg-based dish? I'll just write it now. That's hard to spell.

39:00I feel like you just maybe helped me. Probably. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Do you remember without saying it? But if it's a complicated... Miles was like 12. Egg-based dish. I was. still living with my parents when that announcement was made 2017 that was the first tesla event that i'd gotten invited to that i skipped i remember the semi truck i whatever i don't think i need to go i think like vin brandon and i when we like saw we're just like marquez because i was at home i could have definitely been there that would have been extra painful to have gone there and still not see the car anyway we'll do the answers at the end like usual we'll be right back

40:11Thank you. use templates that fit your brand's style, need extra support. Their AI-powered commerce tools can assist with everyday tasks like enhancing product photos, writing product descriptions, or generating discount codes. And if you get stuck, Shopify is always around to share advice with their award-winning 24-7 customer support. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. You can turn your big business idea into with Shopify on your side. You can sign up for your one dollar per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash waveform so just go to shopify.com slash waveform shopify.com slash waveform all right welcome back we got to talk about crack gate because apparently that's what it's called thanks gizmodo um there's a headline that vision pro units are cracking down the middle now we originally planned to talk about vision pro just as far as like it's like a month later how much are we still thinking about yeah using you know analyzing vision pro stuff i just wanted to know how often you're still using it pretty much so i bought one i picked it up from the store and my trajectory of using it like when i was testing it for the review multiple times a day every day lots of usage and then i would still be using it every day but a little bit less every day now i don't use it every day anymore and it's really there's just not that many apps every time i see a new article about a couple new apps that came out i would read that and be like is there something else i can do because right now not a lot quick shout out to jacklyn yeah who did she used all of the apps it's like 600 is that video out yet or i don't know if she started working on it i think she's working on it i don't think it's out quite yet but maybe by the time this stuff using all of the apps on iphone that's wild i am having 600 apps installed at once would be interesting i wonder if you'd have to do it in chunks and then probably delete some and yeah because the storage would be interesting yeah and most of them are just ipad compatible apps and not like actual so the 600 the 600 apps are vision pro apps and then the millions of other apps are ipad compatible apps for vision pro but crack gate is completely different uh i mean it just is literally like they've started cracking down the middle whoops and i brought i we brought ours here in the because this is our review unit that has been in the studio that has also not really been used as much since the review i think it's been touched in like a week or more yeah and i i just want we're gonna check it well while you open that up the crack we're talking about is like this perfectly straight crack almost directly down the middle of the unit and there are multiple pictures online of people doing it saying they didn't drop it they're keeping it in the case and it's just cracking right up the middle it reminds me of when the pixel 7 was just like the lens was just like a perfect circle breaking it's out ours is ours is not cracked so i'm a little unfortunate that would have been a great clip what ours has had since early very early is a little micro scratch near the top because i think if you put this into like like carelessly with the battery and the metal and the stuff that's around this thing it can just like grab and scrape it so you can get little scrapes on it but we don't have this like telltale like massive crack up the middle which seems apparently it doesn't affect the sensors but i feel like that has to damage something a couple of the people that i read about there's a reddit thread on someone who used it who says they only use it while they're in their bed and then they put in the soft case afterwards and it has not the crack top to bottom but maybe about a quarter of the way up um and they said it didn't affect any of the sensors or anything.

43:49So if that's the case, it's not really affecting it. But if I spent$3 ,500 on this thing and it had a giant crack up the middle by no fault of my own, I'd be very upset. I think people are going to keep using a cracked. You know how many cracked iPhones people use and just forget the crack exists? If it doesn't affect the usage, it's just... Plus, thanks to Sam Cole, we know that you can destroy the entire outer glass and it will still work perfectly. Yeah, apparently you can just take it off. I feel like the difference of using a cracked iPhone, though, is not wanting to give up using your phone for a little while while you get a new one or whatever that is, where this is like people aren't using this as often.

44:28They spent way more money on it. It is two weeks, like a month old, and it's cracking by no fault. Most people who use a cracked iPhone dropped it and are like, that was my fault. I have to live with my own problem. It's also$800. To fix it. To replace the cracked outside glass. If you have AppleCare, it's$300. Do we think Apple is going to do a recall and do free repairs for this? Well, that's the... So the question will be, why is this happening? If this is happening because there's a flaw of the design, and like this is a contour piece of glass, I think that's why it's probably at least kind of worth considering is this piece of glass is like one piece, but obviously it's got this like pinch point in the middle and it's curved and it's like rounded around the edges.

45:12is if it's happening because of the design then there is a reason that they could give everyone a free replacement for cracks but if it's happening just because a bunch of people happen to put it at the same angle or if you drop it at just the right angle apple will make every excuse for you're holding it wrong you should not put it in a case like this sam cole dropped it like 20 times over his head before it like eventually just completely shattered yeah and then the line feels like it seems like too perfect it's way too perfect i mean something happened very similar with um like late 2010s mclarens where everyone was getting their windshield like the windshield was just cracking out of nowhere because i guess they were using some sort of like experimental brittle glass for the windshield and they just replaced it for free because mclaren actually has great warranties that's good this this is like so perfectly straight that i don't even think it's people doing it on purpose to start something like if you wanted to make take a knife and put a scratch straight down the middle you couldn't do it this straight it is like right perfectly just shooting straight up the middle this is the type of thing that happens with an event like some stress on it yeah yeah or well stress due to like weird design if you just like do we think it's heat related potentially temperature is like a great it is starting from the bottom and isn't that where a lot of the heat comes out true he comes out the top oh in from the bottom well that doesn't make any sense yeah but the bottom is also wait is it starting from the bottom or is the reason i would guess starting from the bottom is because some of the photos i'm seeing are only cracked from the bottom and i haven't seen ones that are only cracked from the top they may be out there i may be wrong but oh yeah yeah um i would assume it starts from the bottom now it's here i was waiting for that i was waiting for that yeah yeah this is this is weird i would be really bummed about this if again if i spent this much money on this a month in with no fault of my own if you had one and you're using it and enjoying it and you got this little crack halfway through the middle but it didn't affect usage would you just keep using it and not do anything i would argue like crazy to get it fixed without paying for it yeah and then i probably would still use it because it would be past the return window and there's a difference between needing to like there's nothing i can do anymore because but i would consider that a bad customer experience for sure this gizmodo post says that some people are like speculating that's a possible software bug that causes the vision pro to not enter sleep mode which then leads to run hot and expand the frame and crack at the weak point of the glass i mean i believe for sure that this is the weak point of the glass because they're all initiating a crack from the same part and if you put the vision pro in the case with the battery still attached it will stay on it's supposed to sleep and it doesn't fully turn off but it's supposed to sleep i wonder if that is something that could actually happen it gets really hot in the case you take it out the next morning and it's cracked because it was still trying to turn let's put it in the oven and see what happens i think what we should do is just turn it on and then leave it on and just close it that's probably what a lot of people are going to do they'll just i don't want to do it on purpose but maybe if you're out there and you have a vision pro tech wrecks don't make sure this is off when you put it away unplug it when you put it away i get that the middle would be the weak point of the glass but wouldn't the top be weaker than the bottom wouldn't that nice little nose arch actually give you some structural stability.

48:45I mean, usually curved glass is just going to be weaker. I thought curved... No, no, no, no, no. I don't know if that's true because the curve at the bottom of a wine bottle, aka the punt for my trivia heads, that is what creates all the structural stability for a wine bottle. And it's the same reason restaurant glasses have the lip compared to home glasses because it gives them a lot more... But then what about the Galaxy Edge phones from back in the day? Those were always more... This is also glass glued to aluminum. You just turned it on. And aluminum does have a lot of flex compared to other metals.

49:21But another thing we should talk about that no one is saying. No one. No one. Not a single article. I'm the first. The crack is right over the LiDAR sensor. It looks slightly to the right of it. Slightly to the right of it? Yeah. It's still on it, though, right? Is that it right there? Yeah, the LiDAR sensor is the one in the center. Oh, that one does look right up the middle. Oh, yeah. No one's saying it. No one's saying it. So how would LiDAR cause glass to break? I don't know enough about glass or lasers to tell you. Laser sounds dangerous. I bet it could break glass. I don't know what frequencies or how many bands or like what is going on in the Vision Pro LiDAR sensor.

50:01But thinking smaller and simpler, maybe the sensor also just gets hot. Yeah. Because it does have a laser. Well, I'm more thinking of it just along the lines of if it's over the LiDAR sensor, or is it messing up the LiDAR sensor? No one has said so. No one's, yeah, nothing I've seen here seems to say anything's wrong with it or like make changes the experience in it. Well, all this is speculation. I mean, I think we'll probably get an answer soon enough if we keep getting people, because remember when like the Galaxy Fold started having issues and one person had issues and then three and then seven.

50:33And then it was like, okay, now Samsung realizes they have to say something. We'll see how many people have this cracking issue. And if Apple has to say something, then we'll learn. um awesome nice beep but also uh shout out to joanna stern's article uh of vision pro she had a month with vision pro at this point and the headline is in the air on a train and in a drawer the three most common places that you will have vision pro joanna stern can't miss lately i know it's fantastic headline if you are not following joanna stern you need to follow her right now it's cool she also did a great newsletter about her apple fine woven case and how poorly it has aged over the six months.

51:13You mean how finally it has patinaed. This thing looks like it's been on the floor of a storage locker for like a decade. It is terrible. And she's not the only one having these issues too. I think we all, when we first felt the fine woven case, were like, this feels terrible. But it somehow ages worse than it is from the start. 9to5Mac also did an article about that the fine woven cases are junk. I think Gruber did a tweet asking if you have one, how is it holding up? And like 80 % of the votes were saying it was terrible. So don't buy a fine woven case. All of which would be fine if it didn't cost$60.

51:52But it does. So there's that. Is that the same cost as the original? Like before they went fine woven? Well, I think because they got rid of leather. So this is the first year of fine woven. But the leather one was, I think, even more expensive maybe. So it's not a cheap case. You can get a$20 case that will fall apart just like this one. But the fact that this was Apple's and it's$60 is why I think why people are more mad about that. I mean, I would be mad if this was a$20 case and this is what it looked like after$20. Six months? At this point, for$20, you're getting a case just to protect the phone.