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16:00David Imel:It's like Google Lens, but with Gemini. And then the ability to create home screen widgets, which I think is awesome. So those are actually four really nice AI features that doesn't make this feel like a, oh my God, AI book only. It does kind of feel nice. It's more of an Android book. For sure. That's the interesting thing about it. For those who are not around at this point in time, we used to have phones that you would attach to a laptop like the Motorola laptop. The Motorola Atrix, too. Atrix. And you would basically use your phone as your computer on this shell. Now this idea is like, okay, dedicated hardware, but your phone is still like your primary computing device throughout your day.

16:39So we're just gonna have all of your files, all of your apps, everything that you do on your phone is gonna be accessible on this laptop. And it's also going to have like widescreen modes for when you wanna have your apps, but bigger. So I think that that's a cool idea. And then they're sort of just sprinkling the AI stuff on top. It's not specifically a Gemini book with Android capabilities. It's more of an Android book with Gemini capabilities.

17:03David Imel:Android desktop, yeah. And a lot of it was like, it still has Play Store, and all the apps are from the Play Store. Through that, there's certain, like it says, if things are like optimized for Google Book, made for Google Book, or just like better used in a web browser. It's sort of like a Steam Deck thing. Yeah, exactly. Optimized for Steam Deck. And then in that, you can also mirror from your phone. So there's something called continue on, which lets you between apps, just let you continue on between them. Or the phone mirroring just literally means if you don't have the app on your Google book, you can still use it connected to your phone and do that.

17:39David Imel:It pops up in a little phone size screen. Yeah. And you can do things on there, which is pretty cool, especially if you think something with a keyboard is easier. Yeah, I think a lot of this makes sense. It's funny because when they were making Android more compatible with multiple screen sizes, we were all kind of like, oh, well, it's a combination of one, they're making foldables. So they want foldables of various different screen sizes. Two, they have like a DeX-like experience now where you can plug in your phone into a display and you want to be able to use like a Chrome OS type experience.

18:07But now the flexible display sizes makes a lot of sense because now when you continue on on your laptop, you want it to transition very seamlessly from your phone to your laptop. So making Android very flexible is in their benefit here.

18:20Marques Brownlee:Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what this competes with because being premium, you've got to compare it to some premium stuff. I also still kind of wonder how functional it is without an internet connection. Like we were talking about Chromebooks being the online thing. Like what they do is you have Chrome and you do the things you do in Chrome. And if you don't have an internet connection, a Chromebook's not very useful. How useful will this be? like to me that's why it feels more like android like i can have an offline photo and a photo editing app or tool and i can still do that offline and everything will work so that should be fine but i'm just curious like how much gemini stuff i think rambler works offline how much other stuff works it looks works partially offline yeah just connect to the

19:03David Imel:internet and then your phone like how you know how in the phone one of the features is you take a picture and it'll show up instantly in your files will that work with no internet bluetooth or Wi-Fi. That's my question. Directly to the device. That is my question for sure. Yeah. I did not get an answer on that. I don't really know how that file sharing thing works or how the app sharing thing works. I'm hoping it's direct to the phone. That would be ideal. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. We'll see. So 10 years of updates, quarterly updates similar to Android. Again, 10 years coming from Google is the most worrisome thing I've ever seen.

19:34David Imel:AI is going to kill us within 10 years. But if you want to know more, Jordan from 9to5 Google had a very good video on it and covered and showed a lot of the stuff and also available October 4th. So again teaser, press especially because press was something where Rambler is one of the main features of AI in a room full of a billion people. I haven't seen a single example of Rambler working on it because it can't hear you. Oh well that's funny. October 4th, funny date because the Pixel 1 was launched on October 4th of 2016. Every year October 4th I'm like what happens? What's going on today? today feels like an important day and I'm like oh it was just because when that event happened I had it like drilled into my brain.

20:13Yeah they made a big deal about October 4th 2016 because Hiroshi Lockheimer said in 8 years you're not going to recognize Android so it's notable that they're releasing it on that day because like does that say something about what they think about this product or is it just random? Probably random. It's Google Speaking of smartphone related things sometimes Qualcomm has launched their new two nanometer chipsets. Usually at Snapdragon Summit, they launch their flagship, but this year they launched a flagship and an elite version of the flagship.

20:46Marques Brownlee:So I feel like I can actually explain this, even though the names are terrible. They're really bad. They're so bad. Right. Okay, so there's a new Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 6 and a Snapdragon 8 Elite Extreme Gen 6. Yep. So every year around this time, we start to get like the first phones with the new chip. And so the new flagship chip, as you can tell by the name, is a Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 6. Like we had the, where is it? No, Snapdragon 8 Elite Extreme Gen 6. Well, okay, this was, I have the OnePlus 15 in my hands right now. This had the Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5. And that was the highest end chip from Qualcomm.

21:18Marques Brownlee:And what you saw is you had like different manufacturers tuning it different ways based on their device. Made for Galaxy. Yeah, so you had the four Galaxy one and Samsung phones. If you had like an ROG phone, they would like overclock it a little bit and you'd get like the best highest clock speeds, best possible one or whatever. Yeah. So I'm pretty sure what's happening here is we have a new Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 6. And then for the ones that want to get a little higher clock speed, a little extra performance or whatever, those extra few frames, they have a slightly higher clocked version called the Snapdragon 8 Elite Extreme Gen 6.

21:53Marques Brownlee:It's a terrible name, but all it is is a slightly higher performing version of the same chip. Well, that makes me wonder, will there be a Snapdragon 8 Elite Extreme Gen 6 for Galaxy? That's a good question. yeah I do wonder about the 4 Galaxy thing because like whenever you hear 4 Galaxy they always explained it as like oh yeah a couple extra NPU things here a couple extra like features there whatever a little extra clock speed but that you know that chip wasn't anywhere else so you couldn't really compare it to anything else so yeah TBD on that so it has some new features it can do 8K 60fps recording or 4K at 240 Marques is very happy he wants more 8K support for the APV codec and also a larger shared memory pool for the MPU and an AI dedicated matrix cores for GPU and more memory for better gaming performance.

22:42What does any of that mean? I think it'll be faster. Okay. So people are saying that the Extreme chip is a pretty minor upgrade over the regular one this year. So it's going to be interesting who decides to use it because I'm sure that Qualcomm is going to charge quite a bit extra for those chips. One company who is using it though is Motorola who has pre-announced a new device called the Motorola Signature 27. Okay. Have you seen this phone yet, Marquez? No, I have not. Please click the link.

23:10Marques Brownlee:Oh, I did see a screenshot of this. Okay, I don't really know anything else other than what I saw. This is a hilarious looking phone. It's a really weird looking phone. It has four cameras and an ambiguous black dot. We're not sure what it is yet. There's a flash around. Yeah, there's a flash around it. So not totally sure. They are being very ambiguous with the specs of this phone. They have announced a few of the specs, but not all of them. It's supposed to launch by the end of the year. It's got obviously the Snapdragon 8 Elite Extreme Gen 6. Aluminum with a woven tactical back texture on the black and a brushed textile finish on the green version.

23:48They call the camera plateau they call it the camera plane. So it's not a Mesa.

23:57David Imel:It gradually goes up. It slopes up. Kind of like the Dbrand case is how they've made it. like it slopes on them now it slopes up so it's not it's the camera plane it's not the mesa it's not the plateau uh there's four cameras the main uh the there's a periscope 200 megapixel telephoto and a 50 megapixel main camera which they were talking big about because it was some new sony sensor that's supposed to be a really big deal really quick with cameras i'm confused because almost anytime when you see a camera and like a rectangle cut out inside it that means periscope except this other camera in the top right says they could both be periscope dolby vision 200 megapixel 100x super zoom yeah i don't know who knows man there's also a bang and olfsen logo like right in between all the cameras which looks really ugly and i just wanted to note really quickly we've seen a lot of companies redesigning their logos recently mclaren just redesigned their logo there's been a lot of company redesigns i think b &o might have to do it soon it kind of i don't know i don't know man this looks like one of those bad logo redesigns is this this is their

24:58Marques Brownlee:historical logo? This is their historical logo.

25:00David Imel:I don't know if it just looks extra worse because it's on a 90 or a... They're ahead of their time, man. This is terrible. It's tilted? Yeah. So it's got Bang & Olufsen audio, and I guess they had to slap that in between the cameras. To point out,

25:13Marques Brownlee:that means nothing to me. Yeah. So I literally, this might, no, it's not gonna get me. Be careful about it. I legitimately, every single company wants to tell you that they have Dolby surround support or whatever and i literally never write it down i do not care yeah whenever you say oh speakers are by bang and olison or by or the by this extra i do not care yeah i just want to listen samsung speakers well the dolby thing just is like it supports their exact spec it kind of feels like uh like dxo mark at this point like doesn't to hit a dolby certification maybe ls you know this like you have to just do it the way dolby dolby says and then you get the What does that mean in a phone?

25:56Marques Brownlee:It just means nice surround stereo image. I don't know. It's not that important.

26:02David Imel:In a phone, how do I explain this? In a phone, it has a lot more to do. It has less to do with hardware specs and more to do with DSP and codex stuff. That's like the best way to put it. It's meaning that the internal processing that's calculating things like loudness is going to be put through the Dolby engine. It does not mean that you'll get that much. What it also means is if it's Dolby Atmos supported, if you're watching content that's encoded in Dolby Atmos, which is different than a normal PCM audio stream, the phone will be able to decode it directly to the amp that's driving the speaker.

26:43David Imel:Whether that means you'll get a superior playback experience, it doesn't... That's my main point. That's who to say. But it does mean that if you're watching something on a streaming service that has Dolby Atmos, you will at least know you're getting a Dolby Atmos stream to your thing. The Dolby Vision that is also on this phone. There is no Dolby Atmos on this phone? It's Dolby Vision. Dolby Vision is another one

27:06Marques Brownlee:that means nothing to me.

27:07David Imel:Dolby Vision is a specific HDR standard. It's a specific HDR encoding schema that I think does frame by frame HDR. Like it's not doing any sort of - almost exactly from my google search word for word go ellis damn ellis is ai overview no i love i

27:28Marques Brownlee:love standards and codecs and i mean i'll see uh i'll see a spec sheet on a device that says it has this max number of nits and this contrast ratio and it supports this hdr and i'm like that's also nice great it will work with hdr and it will have it'll do the hdr effects with the high brightness and stuff and i see double vision and i'm like that basically is the same thing i don't feel a special way about getting Dolby Vision. Yeah, but I mean, there's always like an open source version of the thing that these people are standardizing and stuff.

27:55David Imel:It's not, I wouldn't say it is ProRes, but I think you can think of it in a similar way to ProRes in the sense of if you're shooting on a camera that supports ProRes and then you're editing in Final Cut on a Mac, you can get the full experience and use out of that data protocol.

28:14Marques Brownlee:Yeah.

28:14David Imel:It's not a standard like ProRes is. It's not anything like that. But that's the way I would think about it is like if you're in that pipeline, it makes sense. And in theory, if for some reason you shot something on this that you would put in a Dolby theater, you could go end to end. Yes. To be clear, it ruined it for me.

28:33Marques Brownlee:Yeah. The MacBook Neo. I remember getting the demo from the MacBook Neo and listening to the speakers for the first time. And they said, don't worry, these are Dolby Atmos speakers. And I hit play and I was like, these sound terrible. so whenever I hear Dolby Atmos I just make sure to remind myself that doesn't mean they sound good why can't anyone just say like these sound good, listen for yourselves because it's like when you put Leica on the back of a camera you're supposed to go oh that means it's good when they put like this special name with the collaborative it's supposed to associate with quality and I think that's what Dolby has become in many ways they go oh it's Dolby Atmos certified it must have this big booming amazing sound but it doesn't actually mean that These branding things are really ambiguous because sometimes it means that they worked with them on the product to actually like optimize it and make it better.

29:21But sometimes it means they just slapped a logo on the back of something.

29:24David Imel:Atmos, at the very least, will never be a logo because in theory, if it has an Atmos logo on it, it means there's an Atmos engine running in the in the device. Like it doesn't mean that anyone did anything more than just like staple it in there. And then from the professional side of things, like working in Atmos is really, really nice. Like when you're making a spatial audio thing, the work environment is nice. And it's also really nice to know that no matter what device this is getting played back on, it will be a reliable, accurate, similar thing spatially to what you heard in the studio. Because that to me is what Atmos is really good at.

29:58David Imel:It's good at saying like, hey, this sound is supposed to be over here. This device has X many speakers. I'm going to balance them like that to make that happen.

30:06Marques Brownlee:Yeah. And I think that that's what if people know that about Dolby and about what Dolby Atmos actually means, then when you see that it's Dolby Atmos certified, you will know what to look for. I think for most people who don't know what Dolby Atmos means, it's designed to give you the impression of high quality speakers in general. And it doesn't always mean that. I probably shouldn't tell the story.

30:29David Imel:I'm going to tell it anyway. One time I was at an Atmos event and a Dolby rep was like, hey, man, love waveform. I was like, thank you. He's like, did you know RSS feeds now support Atmos so you can do waveform and Atmos? And I said, you know, I said, well, why? What's the point? Why would I do that? What would I get out of that?

30:50Marques Brownlee:Yeah.

30:51David Imel:And he went, I don't know.

30:54Marques Brownlee:It's so you could have the logo that says it's a Dolby. You could put it in the artwork of the podcast. Yeah, we should. That'd be incredible. Well, to be clear, the Motorola Signature 27 does not have that. It has Bang & Olufsen. Yeah. And I still don't know if that's good. Yeah, it did so much to me. Yeah, they're being probably intentionally vague about the specs of this phone. They released a few of them. I think the big thing is that they just wanted to announce that they were going to be the first ones with the Snapdragon 8 Elite Extreme Gen 6. I also get a really big kick out of that because every year eight different phones come out and they say they're the first one.

31:31Marques Brownlee:And it's really funny to me.

31:33David Imel:They also wrote this article on a Google book because it's all lowercase in the title. Interesting. But there is an uppercase T for the first letter. They gave up at that point. Anyway, that was that. So we got a ton coming up. I feel like we got to take a break because after the break we're going to talk about a lot of Apple rumors that I may or may not have predicted. and a new OnePlus 16 that will make Marques cry and I will not indeed bury him with. But first, we got to do trivia.

32:08Marques Brownlee:That's my trivia. Oh, no, that's like universally a call. You thought it was time out. And then you were like, wait, is that technical? No, it's trivia. It's trivia. Yeah. It's good. Guys, earlier, I really wanted to ask you a question

32:20David Imel:about Exodia because... Obliterate! You said five pieces of something. The answer would have been obliterate. Oh, yeah. Nice. But instead, I'm going to ask you this question, which is earlier today, we talked about a two nanometer chip process. God, I also really wanted to be like, why are there x86 Google Books? That doesn't make any sense. But we don't have time. There's so much to talk about today. Two nanometer chip process, two nanometers is about the width of a strand of what?

32:50Marques Brownlee:Oh, I know.

32:51David Imel:Answer at the end.

32:53Marques Brownlee:It's a pop quiz if you guys watched the video about transistor size.

32:56David Imel:Two nanometers in a run then.

32:59Marques Brownlee:Yeah, but three nanometers was, and that's pretty close. I don't know. That's 50 % thicker, bro. I don't know. Yeah, well, Ellis said about.

33:06David Imel:Yeah, but at that scale, everything's about. How about? No, it's not. Because my original question would be like, name me something that's two nanometers wide. Not that much. Yeah. Anyway. All right. Yeah. We'll figure it out. Two one nanometer chips. That's true.

33:22Marques Brownlee:Well. Not chips, but... Things. Transistors. Transistors. Anyway, okay. We will still crash out later. We'll be right back.

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35:23Marques Brownlee:So learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer specialist or get started building for free today at framer.com slash wave for 30 % off a Framer Pro annual plan. That's framer.com slash wave. rules and restrictions may apply. Support for the show comes from Granola. You ever have that sinking feeling where a meeting ends and then everyone's nodding along in agreement but then the next day when you're digging through your notes you realize you forgot everything you're supposed to do? That's where Granola can come to the rescue. Granola is an AI-powered notepad that makes your meeting notes useful.

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36:23Marques Brownlee:Head to granola.ai slash wave. That's granola.ai slash wave to get your time back. Go to granola.ai slash wave and try it on your next call. Alright, welcome back. Real quick, David, I need to show you a video. Andrew, you've seen this already, I think?

36:40David Imel:I'm pretty sure I saw it already.

36:41Marques Brownlee:Okay, so this is the new Huawei Watch D3. Okay. And I'm not even going to show you the caption. I'm just going to hit play. Yeah, I saw that. Okay, so it's a watch. Whoa.

36:51David Imel:Wait a second. That was too quick. It inflates on the inside? Yes. I'm assuming it's a blood pressure cuff. Oh. Yes. Yes. So it inflates like a blood pressure cuff.

37:03Marques Brownlee:has a built-in inflatable armband so that you can get maximum pressure on the sensor. It does get big enough for your arm? So that you can measure. So you can use it on your arm? You don't have to only use it on your wrist. It looks like it's still on your wrist. It's still on your wrist, but it's doing the inflating thing anyway to get your pulse. It's so thick. Yeah, it's an inflatable armband.

37:27David Imel:Okay. It's like, I get it that we keep having all these watches trying to do health metrics that they clearly don't have the proper sensors to do. Yeah. But I don't need to sacrifice. I don't need to take my blood pressure every five minutes. I don't need that all of the time. And now it just looks cumbersome. I will say that a lot of these health apps and health fitness wearables are requesting more and more of your health data that you would get from a doctor. You know, like the new Apple Health app, in order to complete the pedals that it has, the little petals that tell you about all your eyes you have to import all of your blood tests which a lot of people i like i was like i haven't done a blood test in forever then i realized i actually did which was my first blood test in like 10 years but i was uh i imported all that stuff and then i now have my pedal but i think that a lot of these companies are trying to figure out not like ways that more people can access these types of metrics without going to a doctor that's their whole thing to get read of it i guess doing it on your wrist is a part of me

38:29Marques Brownlee:it just feels like this is one spec that they can say that they have that not everybody can say that they have yeah which feels a little silly like oh yeah we have we have your heart rate we have your blood oxygen we have this that this that this that and yeah you can do a blood pressure reading with maximum accuracy i wonder if your wrist is even a great place to take it because usually they take it on your arm and i feel like if they were going to do that they should just announce they should just release a puck that like attaches to the watch and then goes on your arm so Because like you said, you're not going to take blood pressure tests every day.

39:03Maybe you are.

39:04David Imel:It's just like blood pressure tests you're supposed to take in pretty specific scenarios of like you're calm, your feet are flat on the floor, the cuff is near around level with your heart. If you're just like on the subway rushing, the reading is going to be so different. At that point, is it even helping? Oops, I popped my wristband. That's a great question. I don't. Yeah. Very weird. That seems weird. I mean, I love Huawei, loves to do crazy stuff, but... Also, is there a compressor in the... I have so many questions. Yeah, that means it has to have a compressor to have. Yeah. Wow, that's a great question.

39:36Well, thank you for showing me that video, Mark. Yeah, it's a good time. I appreciate it. All right, we're going to talk about the rumored Apple HomePad. Allegedly, we may be getting the HomePad finally next month. This year. Mark Gurman wrote this week that the AI-driven HomeHUD with the screen could be introduced as early as next month, which means October because it's September.

39:58David Imel:I love that term. As early as next month. As early as. I think, I just wrote this down. Have we ever called anything leak speak because that's what I'm dubbing this right now? As soon as. As soon as, like, it's just such a thing to be like, I wasn't wrong. It just makes it an open-ended window. I'm pretty sure about this, but I don't want to be wrong as early as next month. Next month is a week and a half from now. Yeah.

40:21Marques Brownlee:It makes it so you cannot be wrong. Pretty much. Smart. Yeah. I should start doing that when we bet on things. What if they announce it tomorrow? That would be so funny. That's true. If it was September, he'd be wrong. Well, a couple things he said about the product. It may be a mix of iOS, tvOS, and watchOS with a focus on using Siri AI. The display UI is probably similar to watchOS or standby mode. We're going to quote Gurman here. He says, the roughly square screen will come in versions that either...

40:50David Imel:Roughly square. Roughly square. Like iPhone Duo. Like a rectangle. I wrote this in quotes because I'm very confused by what he's trying to describe. Go on. Roughly square, a.k.a. rectangular, screen will come in versions that either sit on a stand resembling a HomePod mini chopped in half or attached to a wall. I want everyone to picture that right now. No. I can't. I'm so confused. A HomePod mini chopped in half. Okay. Yeah. You've seen the renders of this, right? Half of the renders I see on things are just a HomePod and an iPad really poorly superimposed on top of the top. So do you remember the Pixel tablet?

41:30Yes. They discontinued recently. Do you remember the stand for the Pixel tablet? Yes. It was like a sphere that they like chopped it in half at an angle.

41:38David Imel:It was more like a, I wouldn't call it a sphere, but yes. It was like a column. It was like a oval-ish rectangle that is like chopped in half. It's like the Nest home doubled in width chopped in half. Right, kind of chopped in half. Yeah. So, like, when they say HomePod mini chopped in half, it's like the HomePod with, like, a slice section. HomePod mini chopped in half. Well, I don't know. The mini's the size of a tennis ball. So, chop it in half. And then a square screen on top of that. I would imagine it's bigger. Yeah. Well, then they wouldn't say HomePod mini. Do you want me to show you a render?

42:09David Imel:Yeah, but I...

42:10Marques Brownlee:It sounds like a regular HomePod chopped in half.

42:12David Imel:But he very specifically says HomePod mini chopped in half. Does he? I copy and pasted this. I know what you're talking about with the HomePod and that's also what I've seen. But Gurman said HomePod mini chopped in half or attached to a wall. That's not a HomePod mini. That's a HomePod. That looks like an old iMac. Yeah, a little bit. That looks really cool, but I'm not sure if that's what's coming. That looks like somebody making a render. So remember, for audio listeners, the iMac that used to have a half circle on the bottom and this really cool metal rotating bendable arm that then had the screen on top.

42:47Marques Brownlee:Yeah.

42:48David Imel:That would be awesome. Yeah. I don't think it's going to be that. It's not going to look like this. It would be so sick if it was Photoshopped. That's a terrible Photoshopped. Yeah, this is just a HomePod mini, but with a little metal arm coming out.

43:00Marques Brownlee:And then like an iPad type thing. Yeah, this is an interesting form factor. I mean, the idea makes sense, right? They have HomeKit, and they have a bunch of accessories that plug into HomeKit. So you can buy a camera. You can buy a doorbell. You can buy these things that plug into Apple HomeKit. But any of these accessories that require any sort of visual, you can't use on Apple hardware. I obviously have like the Google version of this, which is, what is it, the Nest Home Hub is what it was called? Nest Home Hub. Which is the same idea. It's like an eight-inch tablet on a speaker that just sits in the corner of your kitchen.

43:31Marques Brownlee:And so when the doorbell rings, the video feed from the doorbell shows up on the screen. That's great. Apple doesn't have an equivalent of this for their ecosystem, so they will now have essentially like an iPad that sits on a HomePod doing the exact same thing. Yeah, I think that smart home is Apple's next big frontier, right? Because previously they just certified things to work with Apple Home. And they had HomeKit and they have the Home app and they've updated the Home app a few times to add different things like automations, etc. But now is their chance to actually start making a bunch of first party devices for the home because currently they're like seceding that market to Google and Amazon.

44:05David Imel:They really are.

44:06Marques Brownlee:And it feels like that's actually a big gap that could be really useful for Siri AI. like if it works in a private way and this is assuming it actually works but there are a ton of features have you used the new like Google Home app and all the AI features and stuff that it does like you can ask like show me the footage of the raccoon pulling the trash out at midnight last night from the driveway camera and it'll just pull it up because it recognizes things in the footage and all this stuff it does an okay job sometimes it just gets it wrong but sometimes it gets it right

44:34David Imel:it does some things are kind of cool but then I think I literally had a bear go across and it was like

44:41Marques Brownlee:squirrel i forgot it is funny when it gets it wrong but i've i imagine there's a world where apple would like to be able to have you like on your iphone just be like asking siri uh did the package get delivered and it'll just tell you because it knows because the feed of the doorbell goes to the home kit thing and then you have the whole ecosystem so i could imagine a lot of a lot of siri ai plugging into these accessories things like cameras and doorbells and speakers and stuff

45:07David Imel:and getting Apple products more around. Like, remember when iMac got reintroduced for the M series? They're like, this is the computer you might put in your kitchen. It's like, no, I want something like this in my kitchen. This makes way more sense. The screen that can do maybe like a cooking video, maybe show the doorbell, maybe ask it some things. Mark Gurman said like it might have facial recognition, which would then allow it to identify the person walking up to it to then feed different information based on who it is on the network.

45:34Marques Brownlee:you know the most interesting rumor I've seen about the hardware is that the display might be on like a robot arm that moves the whole display around which I imagine being very different from what we've seen so far which is just a fixed display and I'm not sure if they would do that because I always thought like the whole point of the center stage camera was the screen sits still and the ultra wide follows you around but I have seen rumors of this possibly being on like a robot arm that was quite a while ago those rumors were though and like it was because they were developing that weird like Pixar lamp screen robot thing and I'm not sure like that just seems like a lot of moving parts I agree uh if I'm wrong big swing and I'm wrong it's very possible seems very expensive if they did do something like that and the only point would be like make sure I can see the screen no matter where in the kitchen I am I don't really understand if that's worth it so either way this is like a whole new category for them to get into and it gives them the opportunity to release a lot of products we We went down a rumor roundup a few months ago, and one of them was a security camera, one of them was a HomePad, one of them was the robot arm.

46:37So in the next couple of years, probably expect to see a lot of Apple Home branded stuff. Another thing you may be seeing in the next couple of years, which I was both right and wrong about, is a screenless fitness band, Whoop competitor, Fitbit Air competitor that Apple is reportedly developing. Bring it. So according to Mark Gurman, they are working on this screenless fitness tracker that could rival Whoop and Fitbit Air. A prototype of the band reportedly has a thin fabric with a sensor equipped to module similar to these products. Gurman says that the product is in the early stages of development and likely won't arrive until 2028, which is the point that made me kind of wrong.

47:17David Imel:Well, and he also says it's a technology investigation, which means it has no track of development at this point. It's just something they are investigating. But he also noted that Tim Cook is throwing his weight behind the product. So I feel like that's interesting. Tim Cook? The chairman? He doesn't weigh that much. The chairman. That's cool. Well, sure. Does he still have a say? Yeah, the chairman has no say. He makes almost as much as the CEO. I'm sure he has a say. That's true. So you can clap for me if you want, but I am also partially potentially wrong because if the product comes out, Gurman says it will not come out until at least 2028.

47:49I gave it a one-year launch timeline, which was probably too ambitious.

47:55David Imel:Especially because I said the bet at two years, and then you said one year. So two years would have been very close if the most optimistic view of this, then we would have at least had a good bet. I think I was just feeling ambitious with this because I figured it can't be that hard to make something like this when they already make the Apple Watch. They should rush it to market because these are taking off right now, and within two years, maybe we'll have moved on to something else, smart glasses or something. Apple thinks on a 10-year timeline. I know. They're not waiting. That actually is the reason why I'm wondering if this does actually make it there, because in two years, are these still going to be as popular when the market's been saturated so much?

48:33David Imel:I also got a lot of flack for this argument. I'm sorry. No, no, no. It's not your fault. I just think people didn't get my, my viewpoint was less of, I don't think people want this. I do think a lot of people want this. I just, Apple already has crazy market share on something that can record so much more of your information in an Apple Watch. this feels like it would kneecap their own information. Well, I feel like a band like this could record the same information but just not show it on the screen. Possibly, except that we just developed this entire audio thing where they are recording all of your stuff all the time.

49:06David Imel:But they could do that on a band, too. It would just severely impact battery life, probably. And that's the whole point of these. Yeah, because there's no screen, so. It is weird, though, I say that, because the Garmin screened one actually has less battery life than almost all the Garmin screened ones. That's so weird. That's so weird. but you would have to add more components into it like a microphone and stuff so yeah so we'll see um I don't know I think Apple is very well positioned to do this because they already make really high quality bands so they really just need to take their band team and just be like let's slightly read Ocean Band is this one I'm pretty sure there's like a clip of me begging for this like six years ago somewhere yeah that I actually I asked the YouTube Gemini thing what is the earliest point where we talked about an Apple screenless fitness band and it was in May that's what it told me That's if that's right.

49:53David Imel:If that's correct. I've tried to use Gemini to reference YouTube videos, ours or other ones, and it usually turns down this whole thing of it getting it wrong until I say, like, it's okay if you're wrong, and it goes, I can't actually watch any of these videos, so I don't really know why you're asking me.

50:08Marques Brownlee:Yeah. I know what you're saying about Apple developing things on, like, 10-year timelines because that's what they do. They take their time with a lot of this stuff. I can't imagine why this would take so long to develop. I agree. Is my question. because they have the newly, let's just say that the Apple Watch Series 12, which just came out. You want to put all those sensors in it. You can put the same battery, the same taptic engine, the same everything. Just chop off the screen. Is that product good enough already to just be the new product? The battery life gets way longer because you have no screen and you have all the same sensors and all the same microphone, the same taptic engine to tap you on your wrist for your alarm, all that same stuff.

50:45Marques Brownlee:And that's already a plenty good enough product. You take the screen out, the cost goes down. I don't see why that's not.

50:50David Imel:I think form factor needs to be different and then rearranging everything.

50:55Marques Brownlee:It is a totally different product. The S11 chip is way overkill. You're doing a lot of display stuff. You don't have to have an S11 chip. You can do a way lesser chip in there. I feel like what else is there to develop? I'm not a developer of a product, so obviously. It felt like the redesign of the Apple Health app was actually designed to be an app that you view on your phone and your phone only because it has all of these little elements and these pedals and these things that actually try to get you to open it a lot. And that's what the Fitbit app feels like right now, too. It's got all the information that's happening on your Fitbit.

51:26Normally, if that was just through Google, whatever it is that you... Google Wear, Android Health. Google Fitbit Health Gen 6 Extreme. I guess it's the same across the Google... What are the watches called now? Pixel Watch? Oh, the Pixel Watch. Yeah, but Android Wear. Android Wear is the OS on the Pixel Watch. Is it still Wear OS? Oh, Wear OS, yes. Is it still Wear OS? Yes. It's Google Book OS. As of right now. Okay.

51:54David Imel:Could be different tomorrow. Well, they sort of optimized the new Google. They released the new Google Health app with the Fitbit Air. Yeah. And they did that intentionally because they need to show you all of the Fitbit Air's information in like a big way that's optimized for your phone. Anyway, the Apple Health app redesign feels very optimized for your phone. So I felt like that was sort of a nod to that. But apparently it's just a technology investigation right now. so we'll see. I feel like if I was working at Apple I'd be so frustrated at how long

52:23Marques Brownlee:this time I was like look at all this stuff it's blowing up the war it's hot strike while the iron is hot. If I was them I would have started doing this when the whoop got popular. Yeah but especially now that the Fitbit and the Garmin and all these others are all dropping like it's hot like this is the time.

52:36David Imel:The whoop getting popular is still like 0.5 % of what Apple Watch does though. Yeah. So I don't think it's necessarily that they have a hard time spinning this up really quickly they can probably do this in like a couple weeks but it's more So is there enough market for them to bother doing this?

52:53Marques Brownlee:Yes. Yeah, there's lots of small markets. And this is like almost similar to the Google problem where sometimes it's just not worth getting into it because it's just a rounding error. Like how many are we gonna sell? It's not even a billion users. We might as well not do it. But I do feel like this is, it's just right underneath their nose. And it's a fast growing market, which is a point I made in the App Watch video this past week, which is it doubled in the past year. and it's been rapidly gaining a lot of popularity and chatter. So yeah, it feels like it's right there.

53:21David Imel:I wouldn't be surprised if this new health app is what they use to gauge it on because all of the information you get now is the Whoop killer in the sense of metrics, which so many people like Whoop for because of fitness age and recovery and all that stuff. So now they have that. Now they can see how much of this is just going to make people happy with their Apple Watch or are people still going to Whoop? Whoop already is in this weird spot where they're like trying to do all these things by giving it to you for free on an Amex and stuff like that. They seem like they're struggling to keep growing, whereas, again, a whoop market share to Apple might be a rounding error.

53:58For sure, for sure. I want to know really quickly, this is a slight tangent, but I just, like this readiness score thing, like, I hate these things. Dr. Mike. I really - One to 10. Because you know what the Fitbit Air does? It's like, if I didn't sleep perfectly or if I went to bed one hour late, I wake up in the morning and it's like, oh, your readiness is at 64. You probably shouldn't do anything today. I don't remember the last time it told me to work out.

54:24David Imel:Every day it's like, you should probably take it easy today. It only tells me to work out if I slept absolutely perfectly. You're ready to push it today. You're ready. There's two levels, like chill, chill, chill, or you slob. It's like, yeah, it's like, don't go to the gym and be lazy if you're anything but absolutely perfect.

54:43Marques Brownlee:you should be able to tune it to like how drill sergeant do you want it to be you should be able to decide yeah because you know if you're getting one of these assistants you're probably on the closer to a beginner side where i'm going to listen to the assistant and tells me what to do and if it's always telling me wow you're not doing enough i'd feel bad and that's a good side to miss on yeah so people they're missing on the side of like you're doing great it's fine everything's good yeah but i it's not what's ironic is this if i had if i had like a bad day the day before because I like had an extra glass of wine and I feel crappy in the morning.

55:15That's when I'm more inclined to go to the gym to make myself feel better because I knew that I messed up the day before so I want to rectify it. Like I'm eating my vegetables to counteract all of the steak that I ate or something. Even though I don't like steak. Yeah. Now you know.

55:31David Imel:I feel like that's the real, like Whoop is supposed to be the like top 1 % athletic, like all you do is focus on working out, diet, recovery. boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, I'm ready for my next event. But now it's like also a tech CEO who kind of cares about his fitness is also like putting himself to the same standards as that while drinking a glass of wine at dinner. And like we're putting it into our everyday life, which probably doesn't really matter. We will get, hey, yeah. LeBron James, famous 76er, does have a glass of wine with dinner every day. Every day? I don't know if he still does it, but there was like a 10 year period where he was like, he swore by his glass of wine.

56:11David Imel:it's so funny

56:12Marques Brownlee:wow you should be able to yeah you should be able to tune your AI coach to be a little more gung ho if you want it to be just open to like not being perfect all the time yeah

56:25David Imel:you can just not wear it listen to your body yeah you can just be like damn I wanna go to the gym

56:31Marques Brownlee:there's a lot of people out there I'm not gonna go to the gym who have never gone to the gym and they need like that's true I still

56:37David Imel:am all for that if it's a motivation thing yeah Yeah, for sure. There's two kinds of tech companies. Like we're experiencing this sort of K-shaped reality where like there are some tech companies like Garmin and Apple that I would assume out of fear of liability can't tell someone to work out unless they can be almost 100 % sure their body is like not going to hurt themselves because they end up being liable. And then on the other end of the K-shaped, you have companies that are like, my product committed more felonies than your product this week. Yeah, I feel like it's unreasonable to not be able to tell someone like, go crush it at the gym, and then they don't do perfectly.

57:14I think that's fine. Yeah. You know? I had a seven readiness score out of 10, and it's told me to skip the gym. A seven! Seven's pretty good. Seven's pretty good.

57:24David Imel:It's passing. I got through high school on seven. Yeah. That's what I was saying. Anyway, that's just a tangent, but I hope that Apple tells me to go to the gym, even if I have a one. All right. Well, let's talk about something else that will get Marquez really sad. That also has a one in it.

57:40Marques Brownlee:All right. Break it down.

57:42David Imel:Cooking. One plus 16. One plus 16. We see it. I think. All of these are rumors, but... So we're just taking it as fact at this point. We're deep into the pod where we can just say this is all true.

57:53Marques Brownlee:And just to be real, just to be clear, the only thing I'm mad about is that this phone is not coming to the U.S. Wow. Spoiler alert. Because it looks pretty good, man. Okay.

58:04David Imel:Pretty good. It looks pretty amazing. It looks just like the OnePlus 15, except we have three different colors, which I'm going to explain them all because all three of them are quite a bit different. We have Dark Forest, which is black. It looks black to me. We have Mars Masterpiece, which is orange, but orange. Which is beautiful. And has like a subtle topographic map. Kind of like your hat. My hat is pink. It's coral. It's salmon. It's like coral salmon. Just like the full coral salmon. Then we have Tomorrow's Starlight, which is silver with the same topographic design, but also text that says 16 area coordinates and an X in the top corner, which might glow.

58:38David Imel:It does. I think it glows. It does. Yeah. There's a hands-on video of it glowing. There is a hands-on video of it glowing. Okay. Only when five contacts call you, though. Yeah. They have to be your favorites. Why is it called Tomorrow's Starlight?

58:52Marques Brownlee:They ran out of other words. We're running out of color names. You can't just call it Starlight. That's taken. That's true. Yeah, it's taken.

58:59David Imel:Specs seem to be 165 hertz default refresh rate that can climb to 185 hertz in specific games, 9 ,000 milliamp hour battery, 100 watt wire charging, 50 watt wireless charging, Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 6 Pro chip. and so this is a two nanometers that's what it said maybe because they didn't know about the release of the extreme chip yet they were calling it pro oh yeah because this was two days ago yeah so maybe it is the elite chipset again take it for a word if we're right we're just speculating if it's wrong LPDDR6 RAM oh my god wait which one of you is doing that I don't know Keep going. 16 gigs of RAM.

59:46David Imel:16 gigs of RAM. It only comes out for OnePlus phones. 200 megapixel 1 over 1 4th inch sensor. Wow. And an AI dedicated button on the side. Can I custom map that button to other things? Only for five contacts. Also a 165 hertz panel. yeah well 165 hertz but up to 185 hertz yeah currently they're at 120 up to 144 so it is priced at 5 000 chinese won which if converted which is always weird conversion rates 746 usd unbelievable um that is a price bump over last year's 15 but it's insanely good as far as on

1:00:33Marques Brownlee:paper yeah oneplus has been doing it for a long time yeah on paper they've been doing it a long

1:00:39David Imel:time this is like one plus was like we're breaking up with you us and we're gonna get really hot

1:00:45Marques Brownlee:after too yeah because they used to they were it's almost like they went through a phase like they award they they did this with the one plus one right they showed up they were like fastest this most that here's your storage here's everything great and it's the cheapest price and i went that's good that's nice and then the first few phones were the enthusiast phones right and then we had this little dip where for like four or five years, like OnePlus 8 through OnePlus 13 or whatever, they were too expensive. The prices went up too much. They were kind of doing the mainstream thing. They were missing features.

1:01:17Marques Brownlee:They blend ColorOS and Oppo's software. The whole thing was a little murky and it didn't really have an identity and now they're bringing it back. They're back in the gym. They're doing great phones. Nobody can say that we don't have enough testosterone on this podcast. We're grunting like hell. The OnePlus 15, I've been carrying this phone, yeah, mostly for the last year basically now since it came out. And it's like, it's a great phone. It's quick, software features are there. I mean, the cameras aren't that good. And, you know, these new cameras might not be that good either. But the battery life has been amazing.

1:01:49Marques Brownlee:Like, it's a super quick phone. And now here we go. We're just going to double down on all that stuff. 9 ,000 milliamp hour battery. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's my car. Faster chip, faster. I said faster chip already. but faster Snapdragon chip and faster LPDDR6 RAM and faster display and faster charging and 9 ,000 milliamp hour battery. This is the, on paper, this is the stuff of Dreams. It's a better phone. Unfortunately, it's not coming to the US. And for that reason, I don't know that I'll ever even hold one. It also has lights on the back. We could get you one. It's only coming to China.

1:02:27David Imel:In silver.

1:02:28Marques Brownlee:Which is even worse.

1:02:29David Imel:I think we could figure out how to get this.

1:02:30Marques Brownlee:Yeah, the silver one has lights on the back. maybe we'll just try to get one no there's no way I want to get one and try to put my E-SIM in it and it's just going to be so depressing when it doesn't work yeah tomorrow's starlight for some reason yeah it is cool looking

1:02:44David Imel:what is the X logo on the top it looks like something or is it just a design I think it's just an accent I kind of wish the OnePlus logo lit up it says 16 area I don't know what that is also it's a Chinese only phone and it has something written in English on the back which is kind of confusing yeah I don't know. Well, anyway, after the break, we've got possibly the worst decision ever made in history. Jeez. Like eight of them back to back. From YouTube. From YouTube. So if you're into that deep dive, nitty gritty YouTube creator content stuff. It's coming. It's coming. We did the OnePlus thing just to amp Marquez up to just go off on the YouTube thing.

1:03:28David Imel:So don't go away. So we built the biggest Jenga tower just so we could knock it over.

1:03:33Marques Brownlee:But of course, before the trivia, before the, but of course. I couldn't resist. You know what I meant to say. You know what I meant. We're recording this episode later in the afternoon. It's not our normal morning time. All right. So. A little weird. What does APV stand for? From APV Codec. Oh. Damn. I literally almost wrote it out. I know. Instead of just putting the, yeah. Do we talk about that? Where does that come from? It's from the Snapdragon chip. It has APV codec support. I could guess. You'll probably be right. That's what you do in trivia. I'm down by like 8 points right now. I need solid answers.

1:04:14Marques Brownlee:There's a subreddit post that just said he has 11 and it's all of our faces.

1:04:20David Imel:That was my burner. Our faces are so funny in that screenshot. We'll find out.

1:04:26Marques Brownlee:I'm going to do my absolute the best to rack my brain to think about that by the end. We'll be right back. Bye.

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1:07:02Marques Brownlee:All right, welcome back to our third and final segment. We got to talk about YouTube news. So we have brought in Mariah, who has replaced Adam for our final segment. For those who haven't been here for long enough, Mariah is an editor here. and so we have lots of thoughts on YouTube and videos and editing that will make way more sense we'll get there but maybe we'll start with going through what was announced at YouTube's made on YouTube event yeah and by the way I've seen none of this so I'm hearing it for the first time I

1:07:33David Imel:watched a like six minute video that speed ran everything so I understand none of it I just

1:07:38Marques Brownlee:typed it down I've got all the info I was briefed on it and then I went to a presentation I talked to a bunch of YouTube employees I talked to a bunch of YouTubers every year they have this made on YouTube event. So we've had some time to digest it and I'll go through all this stuff with you. So why are you so optimistic about this year's made on YouTube? I would say I am not in the optimism camp. Oh, oh no. But that's okay. Really? Some of it is good stuff. Some of it is different, different. Okay. Okay. So here's what's first, uh, custom feeds. So, you know, blue sky. So you know, most people, most people when they go to YouTube, just go to the homepage, right remember how subscriptions died many years ago yeah um your home page is trying to do its best to understand all the things you watch and serve you useful stuff but sometimes you just want to go back to the that time that you were obsessed with trains and you just want it to be all the train stuff again well now you can just ask in natural language this ai custom feeds feature to build a feed for you just on the trains and there it is you've got your home page you've got your trains page you've got it seems like it was on the top almost like exactly yeah and you can

1:08:41David Imel:have different ones up there you can have a bunch i think that's cool train page my disc golf page my train page my photography page my david ml page my yeah i think this is cool sometimes i'm in the

1:08:51Marques Brownlee:mood for the car videos sometimes i'm in the mood for the the podcasts sometimes in the mood for the music and so i just have a feed that's just that stuff and it's a variety of it can you make a subscriptions feed yeah it hasn't only gone away it's not gone but we're definitely gonna hit that ramp of like subscriptions yeah you know when i we can we can reference analytics a few times in this i think you know back in the day when i published a video the first day's worth of views were all people who were subscribed in their sub boxes nowadays it's all the same people but they don't go to their sub boxes they just go to the home page just gets and because they're subscribed and it's a new video and they usually watch when it's new, YouTube puts it there.

1:09:34Marques Brownlee:So the homepage drives traffic and this is just some custom homepages. Okay, cool. I like that. All right. Next is a short series. So there's obviously lots of short form creators and I think us, we think of short form as like the funnel for the long form, but there are lots of people who just do short form and they get really invested into this really intense short form stuff. So just like you can make a long form series and play through those videos one by one, you can now make a short series with a cover page and they play in order and there's episode one two three four five yeah the whole thing also notably uh shorts dramas have been popping off recently where you have like 70 episodes of like a little thing that's just a continuation of the neck the last episode so people want to watch more and more of these and a lot of money is being pumped into this even in like hollywood where they're investing in these shorts drama series so i think being able to give you a series page is very helpful so you can actually watch the entire series instead of randomly seeing it in your sub box or whatever.

1:10:32Marques Brownlee:Feels good. Yeah. Yeah. You can now see posts on TV. You can now see, you can now use GIFs. GIFs. GIFs. GIFs. You can now use GIFs in YouTube comments. GIFs. I forget what I like. You can also.

1:10:47David Imel:I agree with you, the audience,

1:10:48Marques Brownlee:of whatever you right now are saying out loud. You gotta pick one. You can now answer comments on the TV. You know, there's a bunch of new features like that. On the TV? Yeah, on the TV. Oh my God. Text-to-speech, yeah. You just talk to your TV

1:11:00David Imel:and it'll put that comment down. Imagine Claire walking into the living room and being like, you f***ing idiot. Like, no, it's actually... I can't believe you. Yeah, actually, that's a great... You know what they should do? In order to leave a comment, you have to leave it with your voice. It has to say it out loud. You have to say it out loud. Because as soon as these people say these things out loud, they're going to feel horrible. Yeah. And not actually leave these comments. Okay, let's keep going.

1:11:21Marques Brownlee:You know how there's messaging? There's not going to be group messaging. No. That you can, like, send videos in also? Yeah, like a group chat. We actually made a group chat. Why don't we bring back the inbox? Why are we scared of the inbox? It seems like they're slowly kind of doing that. Bring it back. Basically. Like, they used to just have an inbox. So it's just kind of the same thing. Group messaging is good as long as it's not the way that it is now, where I, like, tweet a link to a YouTube video, and then I get 90 message requests from random people. I think that part is, they got to fix that.

1:11:48Yeah, they got to fix that. Yeah. Did they even test it?

1:11:50David Imel:I don't need another app that has group messaging in it. Sorry, YouTube. Hey, our Instagram studio group chat is pretty fire.

1:11:57Marques Brownlee:Look, if YouTube is going to be social media, they've had the media, but they got to bring back the social. Google Plus, baby. Yeah. All right. I was just thinking about how much I miss Google Plus. Anyway, auto-dubbing for live. So you can have auto-real-time dubbing into different languages. So for example, you speak English, but you have Spanish viewers in the live, it'll dub in Spanish, and they can watch it in their native language. It's almost like live translation. Yeah, it's great.

1:12:21David Imel:It seems like it was only in Spanish from the video.

1:12:24Marques Brownlee:I think that's what they're starting with, but they're going to do more, which is cool.

1:12:27David Imel:You didn't mention fandom.

1:12:29Marques Brownlee:Fandom, so you can... Is this where we start? This is a good one. I'm not a streamer. Yeah, I'm not a live streamer, but you can live stream. First of all, you can do a co-live stream next to another streamer, so you're both streaming at the same time and your audiences see you both at the same time. It's like a collab, but live.

1:12:47David Imel:Or showdown, sorry. That's what that's called.

1:12:48Marques Brownlee:And then like a showdown is like the two of you both enable super chats at the same time. And then it's like a counter above you for whoever's audience donates more wins. Wait, there's like a showdown of your audience.

1:13:01David Imel:This has been a thing on TikTok before where you like roll through a bunch of other people on like vertical live. And then you both come in and all of the audience of both of them come in and donate to the person they want. And there's like literally it's like a.

1:13:15Marques Brownlee:The UI is literally a counter at the top of who's making the most money. Yeah. What stage of capitalist hell is this? We're on another level. Oh my God.

1:13:24David Imel:It's awful.

1:13:25Marques Brownlee:If it was likes, I would get it, but money is crazy. Another one that got a funny reaction because it was along the same lines is, you remember Hypes? Vaguely. Channels under half a million subs can get hyped.

1:13:37David Imel:What do you mean remember Hypes? They took that away already?

1:13:40Marques Brownlee:No, it's still there. We crossed half a million. we thought we would stop having hypes, but I think we can still have hypes.

1:13:47David Imel:It finally went away. It finally went away? Yeah.

1:13:49Marques Brownlee:You can only hype a certain number of videos per day, but now you can pay to hype even more with jewels. Can I read a direct quote from the video?

1:13:59David Imel:Jewels. Jewels. This will clear things up, I promise you. Okay. Purchase jewels to supercharge your video's leaderboard momentum. This gives you a new revenue stream by earning rubies. So I can only earn Indian money? The guy in the video said that with a totally straight face and it was like, next.

1:14:16Marques Brownlee:You said rubies with a B, right? Rubies. Rubies. Oh, okay. Rubies.

1:14:19David Imel:Oh, yeah, no, no. Yeah, got it.

1:14:21Marques Brownlee:So instead of only a few hypes, you can just buy jewels and then that's worth more than a regular hype. What's a ruby though? What can I buy without a grocery store? Can I pay my rent with jewels? The creator does get a share of what was paid to give you those hypes. A share? Yeah. I don't know the percentage, but it is some percentage.

1:14:39David Imel:This is Twitch figured this out with like bits and everything is Twitch got mad that people on Twitch were getting donations through like PayPal and they weren't getting a cut of it. So now every video platform is trying to be like, no, no, this is the easier way to pay your favorite creators. We just want a little slice of that. Oh my gosh. So here's your root. So you're not getting$5. You're getting 700 rubies. Which is equivalent to what? Right. Like tree 50 and I get a dollar. No, but it's going to be like Xbox Live Points where at any given moment, I'm sure how much a Ruby is could change.

1:15:10David Imel:Who knows? The marketplace? It's not a marketplace, but that's why all of these companies do this. V-Bucks. Yeah, V-Bucks, Airline Miles. RuneScape GP. Yeah.

1:15:19Marques Brownlee:A lot of this very much seems like them just copying other features on other platforms so far. All right. But I think the big ones, there's like three big ones that I want to talk about. All right. I'm blind to this. Let's go. Okay. So the first one is dynamic thumbnails. What? So YouTube, as of right now, we've already talked about the ability to A-B test thumbnails, right? Yes. You're unsure which thumbnail is better. So you run an A-B test. It serves half to one audience, half to the other. And then you realize one of them is more effective and you go with that one. Dynamic thumbnails are, you can upload multiple thumbnails for the same video and YouTube will dynamically pick which thumbnail gets served to which audience depending on their behaviors and which one it thinks will work best with them.

1:16:04Marques Brownlee:Oh. It's interesting because there's a good version of this that I can imagine, which is, like we have text in our last thumbnail. It says always listening in English. But if you're watching from a Spanish-speaking country and you're gonna watch the Spanish dub, maybe it makes sense if there's a version with Spanish text in the thumbnail as well. Can we do that already? We kind of are doing it like band-aided together on the back end, but this is now supported by YouTube where you can upload the different versions and it will dynamically do this for you. Okay. So that's the way that I think it makes sense.

1:16:34Marques Brownlee:Maybe if someone's colorblind, that color won't be in the thumbnail or like... I know, well, it's you're uploading them. So it's not YouTube making them, although I think that's just like one AI step away. But you're uploading the different thumbnails and it's deciding based on user behavior which one it thinks will work better. Okay. It's like selecting a demographic

1:16:54David Imel:and which one's gonna... The thing for this is if you wanted to really, in our tech world, The easiest way to do this would be this video potentially would work really well with people who hate Apple or really well with people who hate Android. And then you can just change that one piece of text on the thumbnail. Sure. And maybe it would send to those. That just sucks because that means the video itself has to be very neutral or going to both of those. So all you're prioritizing is the click on that. This is just, yeah, this is going to really be a pain in the neck in our space. I think there's going to be some weird thumbnails that are trying to get both sides and then you're going to get to a video that's just not that interesting.

1:17:34And like if you're optimizing for clickability and YouTube is specifically deciding who it's optimizing each thumbnail for, then you're kind of just YouTube could be optimizing for like rage engagement. Yeah. How does it not great? What is an optimizing?

1:17:49Marques Brownlee:How does it decide? And yeah, you influence that. That part is unclear. So there are a lot of unanswered questions with a lot of these features. That one, I think it was just YouTube dynamically using AI to figure it out. And I don't have much more info on that, unfortunately. Okay. The last two features, in my opinion, the more I've thought about them, both potentially catastrophic. Oh, no. Oh. So I'll let you decide which one we talk about first. Okay. Video A-B testing or Ask YouTube. Let's go with Ask YouTube.

1:18:22David Imel:Yeah, I want to know why that one's catastrophic. Because the other one sounds like the end of the world. So let's talk about this one first.

1:18:29Marques Brownlee:I'll explain what it is, and then we can talk about why it might be insane. Okay. So the feature itself is you can imagine if you're on a YouTube video and you're wondering if at some point in the video the creator is going to talk about a certain thing. Let's say you're on a camera review and you want to know how good the battery life of the camera is. There's a little Ask YouTube button at the top. You can click it, and you can ask this AI chatbot, hey what does the creator say the battery life is of this camera and it will go ahead and find the part of the video where that gets talked about okay it'll hyperlink you to the exact timestamp of it yeah you can watch that section and then peace out cool so gemini kind of does that already yeah but this is now built into the youtube ui and it's up and it's actually lives in the search box all the time as they already have that built into the gemini built into the youtube

1:19:17David Imel:This feels like the more upgraded version because I thought there was an ask about this video previously. With Gemini.

1:19:25Marques Brownlee:So this is available, I feel like, in a similar capacity when you Google search.

1:19:29David Imel:If you are Google searching a how-to this, it already serves you that where it'll pull a YouTube video and pull you to the timestamp. So it's just feeling more accessible but on the platform itself. There's an ask with Gemini feature that's asked about this video and you can ask, like, when do they talk about this and it brings you to the timestamp. If you scroll down, you can ask questions.

1:19:49Marques Brownlee:I don't think this is inherently bad. It surfaces that much more towards the top. Okay. And my question where I think this is potentially interesting is I always wonder how this stuff influences both the content that we make and the user behavior around the content that we make. Yeah. And so the example that they gave was actually like right at home, which is it was a product review. And instead of starting at the beginning and watching the entire video, they kind of just like searched for like three different answers. I think the example in my the presentation they gave us was like they asked which camera.

1:20:26Marques Brownlee:It started actually before watching any videos. It started with them asking YouTube, which camera should I get that has like retro vibes and like has a fun nostalgia feel. and then it gave us a bunch of suggestions and some videos to watch. And then they continued to talk to the chatbot and ask things like, all right, well, which one do reviewers say has the best battery life and a flash that makes me look good? And then it would sort of narrow it down and find videos that say those things. And then it would suggest one of the videos. And then inside the video, it would allow you to continue to ask things like, well, what do the comments say about battery life?

1:21:00Marques Brownlee:And I find that strange. Why would you ask what the comments say about battery life? Why wouldn't you ask what the video says about battery life? But aside from that, I think all of these things shorten the amount of time you spend actually watching the video. And that was the thing that I worried about with that. It kind of sounds like it's data mining all of YouTube as a Google search engine. Yeah, it's like a similar experience to that. Yeah. So if you, and I always think about our videos as like two buckets of people that watch them. There's the subscribers and the people who are watching the whole video for entertainment value, etc., education of value, they aren't necessarily going to buy the thing.

1:21:39Marques Brownlee:But then the long tail also of people who are in a purchase decision and are watching a bunch of videos about products to decide which one to buy. Those two viewers behave very differently. And I wonder if that second batch of viewers behaves even more differently when they don't have to watch the video. They just ask for the thing and then they peace out. Yeah, I wonder. I mean one they should let creators opt out of that on their videos then they never will but they

1:22:10David Imel:should my optimistic sense of this versus the like just ask Gemini because in the Gemini thing you can ask without even starting the video yeah if it at least brings you to a point in the video that watches enough of it that runs to us as we at least get paid for it it makes it not quite as bad as they just like scrape it never get the view never get the benefit of it because at least it doesn't go into the full like dead internet theory of yeah pulling from the thing that makes the person money therefore they can never create the actual reviews part of it but it does really suck to assume an ai is going to grab something in a video correctly with the correct context around it because yeah just because we might say like x phone's battery life is good if that's where it pulls out it doesn't pull it out because we might think the battery is good because the charging is really good for it or that we like the efficiency of what like there's all these different levels to that that if you just hit a little 10 second clip in the video doesn't

1:23:09Marques Brownlee:actually help the consumer at all yeah i think the context bit is is important a lot of times especially and this i'm keep using the example they used of like i'm watching a product review i just want to know if the battery life is good or not or i just want to know if the camera is good or not that in the video it will say that in the video but we'll say it with the context of like for a foldable yeah or for a for a thin and light or something like that we'll have we'll review it and we'll talk about all these other things in the video with some context for what it is and its competitors and its price and all this other stuff so when someone asks like if they ask the feature is the iphone duo's camera good you might get to like a section of the video where I go, so yeah, I think it's a pretty good camera, but you'll probably miss the part where I go, all foldables have worse cameras than slab phones because they're thinner, but you're stripping the context because you just got to the part where you got the answer to the AI question.

1:24:03Marques Brownlee:So I just wonder how that affects the viewer experience and when I'm making the video now, do I have to think about how people are going to skip around? They already skip around, but how are they gonna skip around with this feature? This is sort of a theme in most media in 2026 is that we just strip out all the context and just take out little bits and removing context changes what you're consuming and changes like everything around it so that doesn't doesn't seem great yeah doesn't seem great okay tell me all right marquez i'm ready okay just stick the needle in okay so you know how you could a b test video titles yeah you can actually a b c test yeah and you could a b test video thumbnails yeah already kind of you know teetering on like what i is not quite what you see, but it's okay.

1:24:49Marques Brownlee:Yeah, sure. So starting early next year, you'll be able to A-B test the video itself. What? Yeah, so the video itself. So you could watch a video, but the person who also clicked the same title and thumbnail could get a different version of that video. Now, hear me out, hear me out, because they did give a use case for every single one of these. So here is the example they gave. You're a creator, you know, You're editing your video. It's a 10-minute long video, and you're thinking about that retention curve. And this little cold open you did, you're not really sure if it's a good idea or not. You've got one version with a montage in the intro and one version with a cold open where you just cut right to the chase.

1:25:31Marques Brownlee:And you're not really sure which one is gonna give you the best retention. So you just export both versions of the video and then A-B test them, and YouTube will actually give you the watch percentage and a nice little side-by-side graph of the retention for both versions of that video. Now, that's the best case scenario, I think, and that still has a bunch of unanswered questions. Yeah. But there are lots of ways that I have thought about that I don't like the way this could go, and I'm sure you guys are all thinking of the same things now. Is there any restriction to what this is?

1:26:08David Imel:Do the videos have to be the same length? Do they have to have a certain amount that's the same? Another great question.

1:26:13Marques Brownlee:These can be two totally separate videos? No and no. So far, no restrictions on how different the videos have to be or how different the lengths of the videos have to be. Not that I've seen. There's also no answer to, let's see, how different the videos, yeah, in general, how different are the videos. Also, there's comments. Yeah. Which version of the video did they watch when they left that comment? They share the same comment pool? They share the same comment section. Oh, God. Matter of fact, timestamped comments are very popular. Yeah, wait. What if there's something in version one that's not in version two and they left a comment and nobody can tell what they're talking about because they watched the wrong version of the video?

1:26:54Oh, God.

1:26:55Marques Brownlee:You know what I mean? Like there's there's a lot of unanswered questions. And here's the thing I was most thinking about. This is I'll stop talking after this. When we A-B test thumbnails, which we do occasionally, it's usually because we're lacking some conviction. Right. We're not really sure which version of the thumbnail we want to run. And so we'll run it and we'll find that if there's a small difference between the two thumbnails, it won't really produce any meaningfully different click-through rate or watch time share. But if there's a big difference in like the concept or the total framing or something like that, then we'll learn something.

1:27:29Marques Brownlee:And I fear that that's probably also what's going to happen with videos, which is if it's only a small difference, only a few cuts, only a few differences here and there between the two videos, we probably won't learn very much. The retention curves probably won't be that different. And so it will encourage more drastic differences between the videos that you're testing and probably in the name of hyperoptimization and just which one gets the best retention curve. This is what I was thinking a lot. There's two there's two main points here that I'm thinking about one that point where it's like we are just barreling towards what is the optimal dopamine machine like every video needs to have the most possible retention.

1:28:13So you need to say these exact things and make these exact cuts and do this and you need to just test test test test test until you whittle down to the center of the human brain. That's the first major problem I see here. Second major problem, we are just barreling towards this reality where my reality is not your reality. And the fact that multiple different people could be referencing the same video and go, when he said this in the video, and you go, what are you talking about? That is bad. That's just bad. Like, and the fact that their account has one version of the video and your account has another version of the video that we we shouldn't be making it more complicated to know what the truth is.

1:28:53We're already doing that constantly with like Google Photos editing and Gemini editing and generative AI. But like the fact that now there are just like multiple sources of truth and none of them are technically wrong, but it's just your algorithmic truth versus my algorithmic truth. That's bad. It's Schrodinger's video, bro. It's both alive and dead until someone watches it. but even when they watch it, it could be a different one.

1:29:16David Imel:David, what if we get three apology videos and then whichever apology video is optimized for your... You get the ukulele. Yeah, the electric guitar. We could, every phone that releases, we could make the this phone rules and this phone sucks video and put it in the same link and just make everyone happy.

1:29:34Marques Brownlee:So what you're describing is like the, immediately when YouTube comes out with a new feature, you have to think about like, how are people going to abuse this?

1:29:41David Imel:Yeah, and that's the nice way of abusing it. Think of all the other people on YouTube and how they're going to absolutely abuse the ever-loving shit out of this.

1:29:50Marques Brownlee:If I was the CEO of YouTube, I would not have greenlit this feature. And I do think the line is somewhere in between A-B testing videos and A-B testing thumbnails and titles. Thumbnails and titles at first were also kind of crazy to us, but it's the packaging of the video. And there is to some extent like, okay, I think that certain versions of this may appeal to different audiences and they may watch it, but I'm not really sure. I can understand why you might want to test between different thumbnails. Like I said, we do that occasionally. Sometimes it's in the name of optimization because once you run the test, they tell you which one performed better as far as retention and watch time.

1:30:28Marques Brownlee:So it seems like that's what we're optimizing for. But sometimes it's just like, yeah, did it feel like that worked or not? I also don't want to encourage creators to start making content based on algorithmic decisions instead of who they are.

1:30:41David Imel:so many times the youtube team has like people ask them about the algorithm and their their thing is always just like you don't have to worry about the algorithm don't worry about any of that stuff just make good content for your audience and this is the exact opposite yeah this is just make a bunch of content that can make anybody happy no one knows what you're actually watching

1:31:03Marques Brownlee:anymore i this is nuts this is the dumbest thing i've ever seen there has to be some guardrails There's like no way. Yeah. Like I said, if it's just innocently testing two different intros, the same seven minute video, I get it. Even if the comment section is confusing with the timestamps, even if like, I get that's maybe the best case scenario. But when there are two drastically different versions of a video, how do you, there's no way that's not bad. I imagine they're going to split the comment sections into like, you'll have a comment section for the version you watched and someone else will have a comment section.

1:31:34I don't think they're going to do that. Then the comments would split in half though.

1:31:36Marques Brownlee:So the reason I don't think they're going to do that, and I usually just predict the future based on what's happened in the past. I'm going by how they've run A-B testing titles and thumbnails. When you're watching a video, you do not know if the title or if the thumbnail was a part of an A-B test. Only the creator knows that. And that would still be true about the video. The video is different. I agree. But that's how they've run it so far. So you watch the video, and sometimes you'll even realize it. You'll click on a video, and you'll watch it and remember the title and thumbnail. and then two days or a day later, you'll see it embedded on a website or something or on your feed again and it has a different title or thumbnail and that's when you'll realize either it was changed or it's part of a test and you're getting the other half of that test.

1:32:17Marques Brownlee:But yeah, you won't know. And then the other one is you, once you watch the video, like someone else could have arrived on the same video from a different title and thumbnail. Someone else can be watching the same video at the same time, but it's the other version of the video and you won't know. So you'll leave comments and they'll also leave comments and you won't know that the comments you're engaging with we're talking about the other version of the video. And if they're drastically enough versions of the video, the comments won't make sense anymore. They'll be talking about different things.

1:32:44Marques Brownlee:So yeah, and as far as like abusing it, yeah, there's gonna be creators who are like, oh, I'm just gonna upload like three different, totally different versions of the video and tell people to leave comments based on what they see. But it's gonna be based on things that are only in one of the videos. So you can only, if you see this, comment A. If you see this, comment B. You got version B of the video, congrats. Like that's gonna be a thing. You can pump three crypto scams in one video. Can I share some thoughts?

1:33:08David Imel:Please. I would like to make an analogy that people might understand because I feel like we're really in the weeds and maybe a lot of listeners might not be. I want people to think of their Amazon shopping experience if you're an Amazon customer. and how if you're searching for a product and you read the reviews, you see the ratings, you see the comments on Amazon, you can actually swap the products that are listed on the page. So you might see comments for a five star rated toothbrush, but then you go to the page and it's actually a completely different product. So if you think about it like that, how frustrating of an experience it is for the consumer to navigate what information is real, what information is important and like, what am I actually seeing?

1:33:52David Imel:I literally cannot imagine it in a video format. And I guess my question kind of is open-ended is how much manipulation should a viewer reasonably expect when you're watching a video? At what point, like the audience can't consent and doesn't know that these things are happening. So who is this really benefiting? I'm not really, it doesn't feel

1:34:15Marques Brownlee:like it's going to benefit the viewer. I can tell you who I how I think this future came to be. I think that there's there's channels and I talk about like the the target audience for a channel all the time. I think some of the best, most interesting channels are niched down where, you know, you can imagine I'm I'm sitting in like my bedroom. I'm talking about like these baseball cards I really like. And behind me, I've got baseball memorabilia and I'm speaking English because that's the language that I speak. And like all the things around me are very me. And if you click on the video and you like that stuff too, it's a small group, but that's a really good connection.

1:34:51Marques Brownlee:Like, oh, you also like baseball cards and we're also speaking English. And we also happen to have like the same taste and that's all great. And then there's like the mega channels whose goal is much more towards, it's mass appeal. They're trying to appeal to as many people as possible. And these channels, you know, they love, obviously the auto-dubbing so that they can watch the video in any language and they love the dynamic thumbnails so no matter who you are no matter what you're interested in you're going to get a thumbnail that appeals to you even if it's not what really the creator is that into and so one by one they're sort of like almost stripping away parts of the experience like the title like the language or whatever it is and making it maximum appeal and maximum optimized and that has allowed them to be successful in reaching more people, but with a product that's ever more, I don't know what the word is, like not sterile, but just kind of like generic, I guess.

1:35:49Marques Brownlee:And to them, that's a success. Boom, the numbers went up. Everything is more optimized. Hooray. And so for this video A-B test, it's literally like, well, if I upload a version that does worse and has a lesser retention curve, clearly I throw that one out because the one that got the better curve is the one that appeals to more people and the more numbers go up, we win.

1:36:07David Imel:I guess another concern kind of related to that I have is, since we don't know the guardrails for this, is this applicable to kids' YouTube content? Because that's a large concern that I have as well.

1:36:20Marques Brownlee:That's a good question. I don't know if you can A-B test in kids' YouTube stuff yet with the thumbnails and titles yet. I don't know.

1:36:27David Imel:Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of just questions. I feel like we just don't have enough answers. I really was hoping Marques was going to come back from Made on YouTube. with a little better answers. Because when I first thought of this, you said how they got here. And I can see their thought process of when you think of packaging, so often we think of title, thumbnail, and like first 10 seconds are kind of all in this, like how to grab someone in a 20 second span from you're on your homepage to watching a video. So if you think about that, if you do just A-B test an intro, maybe that applies to packaging.

1:37:05David Imel:But if we don't know what the length of this is, and can be two separate videos, then we're just in a world that I don't know where people could go with it and use it for misinformation and weird stuff. And again, it's just focusing on this weird, like, yo, what's your YouTube optimization stack? Will I AB test thumbnails, titles, and full videos? And I don't even care what they watch anymore. I just care that my view number goes up and I make money. You're just trying to stay on the platform ultimately. And I guess I'm not sure what the practical application of this would be other than ideally optimizing the beginning to keep retention.

1:37:41David Imel:It's also it's a world where and maybe this is too far, but ultimately you will never know why Google picked one version of a video versus another video. It will ultimately be up to Google. And so they could say a test. Yeah. No. Yeah. Well, you don't you don't actually.

1:38:01Marques Brownlee:You don't actually know. No, the A-B test is, I assume it's just like thumbnails. You choose which version you want after the test is run.

1:38:08David Imel:Well, it will auto-choose, right, after it's run.

1:38:10Marques Brownlee:You can have it auto-choose or you can choose. So basically you upload up to three versions of it. And then what they'll give you is which one had each, they'll give you the watch time percentage or watch time share for each one and a graph of the retention graphs for each one. And then you choose after which one you want to keep.

1:38:26David Imel:So at the end of the day, there will only be one version of this video. At the end of the test. Yeah, so it won't be indefinitely. There are two versions of a video. No, but for 80 % of the audience, which is usually in the first 48 hours, it could be two totally different videos. If you are the kind of person who is just like so stoked about optimizing YouTube videos and getting tons of views and you decide like this is what you want to do, all respect to you, brother. Let me just tell you, though, being a professional YouTuber, it's not easy. and there are plenty of great companies where you could do this for a living.

1:39:03David Imel:RJ Reynolds, Philip Morris, Kulshi, DraftKings. These are all flagship American companies that you could work and just get f***ers addicted to whatever you want. So why not just do that instead of having to do the hardest job ever and become a famous YouTuber? If you're going to this level, I think we are 10xing burnout in YouTube. Like if you're at the point where you are A-B testing titles, thumbnails, and entire videos, you are just speed running burnout. It's clearly a feature, and I think we said this earlier, that it felt like maybe the top 1%, somebody asked for X, Y, and Z. And so this clearly is catering to that demographic and content strategist.

1:39:49David Imel:I'm sorry, but I don't like it personally. Yeah, I don't know. Can I ask a question? how are chapters going to work on two separate videos? It's a great question. They don't work at all. They already don't work.

1:40:04Marques Brownlee:They're already mostly broken. So they'll still be broken. They already don't work, Andrew. Yeah, that's the thing. Maybe there'll be some guardrail that's like, the videos have to be the same length. I don't even know if you can do that if you're testing two different... But what if I'm testing a quicker or shorter intro? It's always like one frame off. So maybe they'll have to be like within a few... Again, there's no current literature explaining any guardrails for this. Have they said when this is launching? At the event they said early next year.

1:40:30David Imel:You have time to change your mind.

1:40:32Marques Brownlee:They have time to figure out.

1:40:33David Imel:You can change your mind. It's okay to admit you're wrong. Yeah. Neil! Neil! This is what they want. Like, they want everyone to be satisfied. They want to, like, be able to produce as many videos as possible that have as much retention as possible because that means they can play another ad for every user. this is the only way that YouTube gets their watch time up it's the only way they get their revenue up this is what they're gonna do

1:40:56Marques Brownlee:and I will just say there is like again videos have a utility and they have a entertainment value I don't know if you can imagine going to a theater and watching a video and then your friend in another city saw the same movie and then you go to talk about it later in the comment section if you will and you guys saw different movies like that feels broken but they did it as like a social commentary thing so acknowledging that it was broken well they did it on purpose to confuse people so that they would talk about the movie and be like I didn't see that, what happened? which movie are you thinking of?

1:41:34I don't remember, was it a Netflix thing?

1:41:36Marques Brownlee:well there's Choose Your Own Adventure on Netflix but there was the 1985 Clue movie which did notoriously have three different endings and everyone argued about

1:41:47David Imel:which ending was the correct ending yeah yeah I think that's what I was thinking about also at this point to me this really feels like the direction they're trying to push this in is like why not just AI generate all the comments like if we're already not sure what the real video is who cares if you know why not just create everyone their own individual little dopamine reality and keep them locked in there that's the direction they're going for bro why not just AI generate every video on YouTube like that's what they're going for what did Rufus say when we were talking about this at lunch he was like it's just tube now there's no more it's just the tube i think

1:42:23Marques Brownlee:the the way they demonstrate the feature says a lot about how they expect people to use it and who it's for and in in their explanation of it it was really just like here is the retention graph for each of the three videos now pick the one that you like the best based on the retention graph and all you will learn from a b testing is which one gave you the better retention graph people And so now you are a retention graph machine, basically. People will exploit this in ways that we cannot even fathom. Yeah. So your learnings from using this feature will always be in the context of retention, retention, retention.

1:42:59Marques Brownlee:And that's somebody's game. They love that game. But I do think it's valuable if you're a creator to ignore 90 % of these features. I do think that making a video and just getting the reps of making a video is far more valuable than, all right, I've made my video. Maybe I can optimize retention by recutting the intro. Maybe I can make three thumbnails. Maybe I can do this. I would just get reps at making the video so you get good at making videos. The rest of it is like filler and fluff. And at the top 1 % in the name of maxing your audience or whatever it is, you can max your retention graphs.

1:43:38Marques Brownlee:But I really would I would strongly advise against using this very often if you're especially if you're a beginning creator. Focus on retaining the light in your mother's eye. Retention graph of the light. I was going to say, like, we're just everything is going towards genericism and people follow creators not because they like appeal to the most people, but because they have a point of view. and people like to follow people with points of view and everything that we're doing is just making things more palatable for more people and I know that that keeps people on the platform longer but like you don't go see a movie by a certain director because everyone was like, it was fine.

1:44:20Because it has the best retention curve. What?

1:44:23David Imel:You guys aren't going to the movies for that? JJ Abrams leaving the movie 10 minutes after you sat down because you're bored? Yeah, exactly. Has anyone considered the viewer experience? Has anyone thought about the viewers? Somebody think of the viewers.

1:44:38Marques Brownlee:I will say the entire keynote and all the presentations were very much not from the viewer experience other than the custom feeds thing. The rest of it was like, here's your tool for how you make stuff to get the viewers to get the, you know, the retention graph and things like that. So that's that's the lens through most of, you know, the presentations. Marques, are you going to make me make four different videos? I was going to say. I did. Tell me now. So I did, I hopped on Colin and Samir's podcast briefly after and had a chat with them about the future. And Patty Galloway was next to me, famous for like, obviously he does a lot of this like retention maxing and innovation on this front, if you want to call it that.

1:45:13Marques Brownlee:And his point was, and I think maybe this is the best argument for it, which was the argument against trying something new. So if you're a longtime creator and you've been doing it the same way over and over and over and over again, and you have this idea of like, what if I did a little montage in the intro? I kind of like that idea, but I don't know if my audience would like that. I've never done that before. Maybe I'll try it. And you do an A-B test of like, here's a version with it, here's a version without it. We see the version with it bombed and everybody hated it and you confirmed, okay, yeah, it doesn't really work.

1:45:47Marques Brownlee:Or you get surprisingly positive comments and everybody's loving it and you're like, damn, I can try this, I can do this new thing. That was the positive argument I heard, which is like it encourages you maybe at some point along the line to try something new that you wouldn't have tried yeah but i do think here we typically have pretty good conviction about what we're making why we're making it and we what we want it to do and say and so i rarely feel the need to like oh should i say this about this product like everything i'm saying in the video

1:46:18David Imel:i wanted to say about the thing just try the new thing yeah you try it just means half the people see the new thing. You're still trying it and putting it out there. I agree. It is scary because

1:46:28Marques Brownlee:there are creators where it's like, if I try this new thing and I don't AB test it and I just send it and it bombs, I don't get that one back. And maybe I make one video a month. No, you learn a

1:46:36David Imel:valuable lesson from it.

1:46:38Marques Brownlee:I also agree. Yeah. But you learn that valuable lesson siloed off in a way that you can maybe just go, okay, it's good to go. Or okay, actually it's not good to go. I have a question. Yeah.

1:46:47David Imel:Do you feel like this, well, yeah, in this scenario, because I don't think people are going to do that but in this scenario do you think this is like the solution to people having secondary channels because there's a lot of people who I feel like are scared to try new stuff and then they do create a secondary channel like I'm thinking of like Danny Gonzalez I'm thinking a lot of people who maybe they're known for one thing but they would like to try something new like that is the best case scenario to keeping it all on one branded channel instead of making subsidiaries

1:47:17Marques Brownlee:yeah I will I will say I think a lot of creators don't have as much team help and don't have as much bandwidth. So creating a second channel is more of an undertaking. And maybe we take it for granted here that we can just spin up a channel and have the resources for it. But I think to some extent there are people who are like, it's just me and one editor. And like, I kind of want to try a montage intro for this podcast I did. But I don't know. I've never done that before. I don't know if people are going to like it. Maybe I'll just do it. maybe I'll just send it for the A-B test. It's the most earnest way to try this.

1:47:54Marques Brownlee:It's the most generous interpretation of the use of that feature I can imagine. I mean, as much as I agree with Andrew,

1:48:00David Imel:like you should go for it. Like that's part of the cool part of doing this for a living is that you are empowered to like go for it. You know, that being said, that is like the use of this that seems like acceptable. I just think if you really want to try something it should be because you think it's cool and you want to try it and you should go for it and if your audience hates it then get the feedback and be like they hate it because of this I hadn't thought of that maybe I don't I'm not as convinced or you could be like that was sick and I thought that was awesome and some people might not like it but I'm gonna keep doing it but some people will

1:48:34Marques Brownlee:yeah that's cool and that honestly the more I think about it like that's kind of how it's gone forever and how I kind of think it should go which is like you try something new a bunch of the audience hates it unsubscribes, leaves but you loved it, that's why you made it, okay, great. You've shedded the audience that didn't like that old stuff and you're growing and you get new audience that likes the new stuff that you're trying. And so your channel isn't always gonna grow and grow and grow. We all wanna max, we all wanna optimize. But sometimes you just gotta evolve and this is a way of, you know, this A-B test feature will be a way to like try to stay perfect and hopefully never have a blemish.

1:49:11Marques Brownlee:but sometimes growth is learned through mistakes. Actually, it usually is learned through mistakes. And so you just gotta try new stuff. Fail sometimes, win sometimes. That's how you like evolve as a creator.

1:49:21David Imel:Just take the L.

1:49:22Marques Brownlee:Yeah. Or the W. Or the W. Or the W. And brands notably change their logos all the time. We dunk on them all the time. Which is true because oftentimes they're bad. But if you don't change your brand, your branding, your website, whatever, people eventually fade into irrelevance. Like people, people will to different creators to different types of content. They'll be saying, man, they've been doing the same thing for like 10 years. They haven't changed at all. And some people like that. But honestly, you should be adapting your content to what you want to do next, what you want to try next. And if you never, ever, ever change, people get tired of that and they just like fade out.

1:50:02Yeah. So I don't know. Try the new stuff. But don't don't make 12 versions of the same video. Like, yeah, it's crazy.

1:50:09David Imel:Don't make your editor edit three. Yeah, I was going to say that. If we've learned anything here. All right, let's make three separate podcasts and we'll release. Yeah, Adam, I forgot to tell you, we're going to ABC test this podcast later. We're going to do three podcasts a week,

1:50:22Marques Brownlee:but only release one. Anyway, that is our existential thoughts. I think that's about all. That's about it. We have a round table. Trivia stuff. Yeah, well, we could talk about that next week, right? His other stuff. The round table. The onion stuff is not worth talking about. Okay. we'll save the onion stuff we'll save the onion stuff comment onions if you want to hear about onions next week make me cry bro we'll A-B test the onions versus no onions okay in other news trivia time that was long I'm just going to start making A-B test jokes about everything

1:51:00David Imel:Ryan I told you you'd be doing a trivia question today and you were like what are you talking about I'm not on the pod today this is really stressful and I was like, you just wait and see. Was Mariah paying attention? But first, it's my trivia question. Guys, we talked about a chip made with a two nanometer process. Two nanometers is about as wide as a strand of what?

1:51:24Marques Brownlee:First of all, you were lying to me. But here I am.

1:51:29David Imel:I was not lying. Is it a lie if it ended up being the truth? No. No, that sounds like the cheat. You manifested this.

1:51:36Marques Brownlee:I don't know how you did it. It just means you were wrong. Did you watch the transistor scale video? It was hovering next to my head. But see, Marquez, I have something called intuition. I think we all got the right answer. I think he worded it in a way where if you say anything else, we're going to think about it a little. Okay, good. Yeah, we all said DNA. And you're all correct. I should have made the question harder. You should have. If you didn't say strand.

1:52:04David Imel:I agree if you didn't say strand. I think there was room. Strand had the opportunity to throw off because everything compares to a strand of human hair. Yes. And I will say I started thinking of animals that may have thinner hair than humans, which is a really dumb move. And then I remembered DNA. Does anyone know anything else that's two nanometers wide? We were very close to a single atom. We are so close. But not quite there. Yeah. All right. Do you know? Wait, you got to tell us. Adam's gone. Adam's actually been standing behind the camera the entire time. Adam's literally disappeared. He's not here, which means I get to do the score update today.

1:52:45David Imel:I didn't gain anything. Everyone got one point. David, you now have 13 points. Insane. We could ABC test this where each of us are winning. And therefore it only feeds to the people who like specific posts. Adam had already updated the score by the time I started reading it so I was incorrect. David you have 12 points. How did Adam know that I won already? I don't know. Andrew you have 7 points in the middle and Marquez How would you say that?

1:53:20Marques Brownlee:Go ahead. You have 3 points. Thank you. For this next one can we get 1 point for each letter? No. Think about it. Yes. Yes. Wait. There we go. I forgot what the question was.

1:53:35David Imel:I've been thinking about it this whole time.

1:53:36Marques Brownlee:Question number two. We're going to A-B test.

1:53:39David Imel:We love acronyms here at the Waveform Podcast. So what time does APV and APV codec stand for? What time? That's what you wrote. Bro. 426.

1:53:54Marques Brownlee:What is it? I'm wrong. Burgundy?

1:53:59David Imel:That doesn't make me look foolish. AVP? P? AVP. APV. Oh. Codec. What does APV stand for?

1:54:17David Imel:If you don't know, I'm spelling something wrong. Dang. All right, gamers. One for each letter? One for each letter. I just wrote a bunch of words that might be good for that letter. Adam says yes. You get one per letter. You get correct. All right. Oh. Somebody want to read what they have? We were close.

1:54:39Marques Brownlee:What did you write? Advanced Precision Video. I wrote Advanced Professional Video Codec.

1:54:48David Imel:David, what did you say?

1:54:49Marques Brownlee:That was right? The whole thing? Nice guy.

1:54:54David Imel:But only in this version of the video.

1:55:00what did you write David? audio parallelized video I've never seen that word boom which means I got two points so David got

1:55:13Marques Brownlee:oh you're in perfect order

1:55:14David Imel:one two three points yeah one two three that actually fits that's really good for the program yes the evener that's so good wow wait I should have I literally read the article this morning and then I and the one that added the acronym in the document. Wow.

1:55:30Marques Brownlee:Frank. You're like, yeah, I wrote that question. I, I, I.

1:55:34David Imel:All right. Great pod, everyone. To everyone listening, depending on which version of this podcast you're listening to. I'm sorry. Or you're welcome.

1:55:46Marques Brownlee:I'm so serious. This is gonna be like, people are gonna end up being like, if you got this far on the podcast, comment onions. But in the other two, it'll say, if you got this far on the podcast, comment grapes or potatoes. I think we change

1:55:55David Imel:of every episode. Everyone's like,

1:55:56Marques Brownlee:why is everyone saying grapes? It clearly says onions. Anyway. Just make it rough. Yeah. Thanks for watching. Leave your comments on what sort of other things people will do with A-B testing videos down below. And we'll catch you guys. Is next week still Tech-Tember? Yeah. Holy moly. Yes, it is. Wake me up when Tech-Tember ends. Catch you guys. The end of Tech-Tember. Actually, technically, by the time they watch it, it will be October 1st. Roadster Day. Okay, cool. But we will record it. Roadster Day, my ass.

1:56:22David Imel:Okay.

1:56:23Marques Brownlee:Roadster Day in the other version of this. I still have the light in my eyes. I still have the light in my eyes.

1:56:27David Imel:Really? Wayform is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Rovin. We were part of the Vox Media Podcast Network and a triad of your music was created by Vainsell. Also, Mariah is here and get used to her because she's going to be here a lot for the next month and a half. And you ain't going to see Adam in a bit. So say bye-bye. We didn't fire him though. I'm Adam now. Except for next week. You actually won't be here next week. Adam is just in the version of the video you're not watching.

1:56:58I was going to say your mom, but then I was like, wait, that's really small. And as we know.

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