Thoughts on Apple Vision Pro and WWDC 2023!

32:17But do you think that Google is like shoving a robot in between the call and the actual voicemail part and then it's just doing its own? Yes, so what Google does is it introduces itself as a robot and then you start talking and there's a couple of buttons you can press on the screen to ask for more. So if you want to go like, who is this? Or why are you calling? You hit the button and then the robot asks them. And then you continue to get a transcription of what they say. And if you want to pick up at any time, you hit the green button and pick up. This one is just like, they're not picking up your call.

32:48Feel free to start talking now. It's a voicemail. And then you can pick up in the middle. I feel like if I'm the one leaving the voicemail or I think people leaving me a voicemail will feel much more free-flowing and personal if they're just leaving a voicemail and I pick up versus like... Yeah, no one wants to talk to a robot. Yeah, the robot just changes the vibe completely. What is even the point? It's kind of just like Google just added a bunch of features to screen calls. And it's like if I get like a spam thing and a spammer starts talking, I just hit the red button and it's gone. Yeah, but the thing is if you were able to screen calls already, like if Apple can just be like, okay, we're interrupting the voicemail feature and we're allowing you to pick up during that call, Why does Google even have to do the thing where it's like, I'm a robot, please talk.

33:32I think it's to introduce the rest of the prompts later. I also always felt like that made it feel like a personal assistant kind of thing. It almost feels way more businessy than personal, which is cool for businesses. If I'm really busy during my workday and I'm screening voice calls, it's cool. It feels like I have a personal assistant. I can just do that while I'm still working. But when it's my mom calling me, I don't want to send her a robot to be like, hey, I'm just not here. I'm also overly cautious with these kind of things where anytime they're doing anything with a robot, they're like, let's make sure that people know it's a robot.

34:06This feels like a simpler version, a simpler, more personal, everyday kind of thing. Same thing with FaceTime. You can leave a FaceTime video voicemail. I love this. Which is like if you FaceTime someone and they miss it, you've already got your camera open and you were gonna do a video call in some way, you just leave a video message. Yeah. I think the point of FaceTiming someone usually is, especially if you're FaceTiming them when they don't know you're about to FaceTime them is that you want to demonstrate something. So being able to have a video call, demonstrate something, and it's just like a voicemail.

34:37I think it's a really cool feature. Unless you're calling from a Vision Pro headset. But we'll get to that. We'll get to that. That is a cool thing. Like, I want to FaceTime someone because my kid just took their first steps or something and then you can be like, look what's happening right now. Like, you missed this, but look, you can still see it. I think that's really cool. I love that. they also have personalized contact posters which is again a very ecosystem your friends have an iPhone thing this is so ecosystem they change the way that the it's cool they change the way contacts look it's way prettier now and it basically does the cut out of your body and then you can use your own photos it's the iOS 16 lock screen for a poster absolutely which is awesome the iOS 16 lock screen was sick and now you can airdrop it to someone by putting your phone right next to there Okay.

35:26Just your iPhones, though. So this is probably one of the coolest features in iOS 17, if your friends have iPhones. They added a bunch of functions to tapping your phones together, which I think is a very futuristic, very like we always assumed you could just kind of like, bing, and that's how it works. So this one's called Name Drop, which I think is a great name. They name everything, don't they? Yeah. You just bring your iPhones together, and all of a sudden, I don't know if the animation is actually the way it looked on in the video, but it's like this rippling thing where all of a sudden your contact posters just like ripple into each other's phones.

36:02I think that's really cool. I think the neat touch is you get to choose exactly which contact information you share with each person. So if I'm seeing you and I'm like, oh, do you have my phone number? No, and I do that. I can go, yeah, phone number, just share the phone number. And we beam phones and then you get my phone number. Or if I'm at a conference and I'm like, hmm, work email, I'll adjust the work email when we beam phones. Oh, harassment, fake number. I'll give you a fake number and be me here's my number and it's fake and you just walk away you can make a bunch of different contact posters and you can just make one that has fake information so if you don't actually want that person to contact you you just give them fake information and you're like I beamed you, I beamed you, you got it alright see you later, bye so that's very ecosystem oh you have an Android, sorry I guess I'll give you my phone number it's like David pops up like popping out of the screen on his iPhone and then I call and it's just like a green AM on the screen I have like a a hole punch in a card.

36:55If you just dial that number, that'll be it. No, yeah. Airdrop for names. Name drop. There are actually, speaking of airdrop, there are a lot of airdrop updates that I think are cool. I never thought of airdrop as something that needed to be updated besides stability. But now, if you're airdropping something to someone but you really have to go, when you get out of range, it'll continue airdropping over the internet. Super useful. Which is interesting. they showed using Apple Photos like airdropping photos and I do wonder if for that feature to work you have to already have what you're airdropping them like in the cloud because then it just kind of like handshake shares it over your accounts and continues to download it I'm not sure if that's the case we're going to have to test that When we looked at the images and stuff it had the little Apple Photos logo remember we were trying to figure this out So not over mobile data it's because it's already in the cloud on the internet It will be over mobile data.

37:51It will be cellular. You wouldn't be cellular to their other phone. It would be cellular to pull it from some cloud source instead of straight from their phone. I was assuming it's sending something to the cloud source and then the cloud source is sending it back to... I think it's like you're sending it locally over the Wi-Fi Direct handshake that you have with AirDrop. But then if you get out of range, because that file is theoretically also in the cloud, it can finish downloading it. It already knows what bytes it's downloaded, so it downloads the rest. I don't know if that's how it works definitively, but that's how I would understand it.

38:25Disclaimer, that's an assumption. Yeah. We're going to test that. Also, AirDrop now works with Apple Watch. I'm going to beam you so many videos on Apple Watch. Yeah, you can do the NameDrop thing with Apple Watch too, which is very cool. Oh, true, true, true. You can bring your watch to someone's phone and it'll beam their information. Can you go watch to watch? I don't know. That would be kind of sick. Someone's going to do it. Yeah, someone's going to do it.

38:51you now know who I am. Cool. Yeah. You can also start share plays now by bringing your devices together, just like NameDrop. Very cool. Start shared activities. Yeah. And then messages. Messages has a ton of things in there. Lots of updates to messages. Which I don't use messages, so I'm just kind of watching. The sticker thing, I think, was probably the biggest thing they showed. I think the search feature. Well, the search feature is really cool. So search feature with filters, right? And then so you can basically search one thing. And then after you've searched that, then you can also keep searching further and further.

39:27There's that. There's also the benefit that before you would have to search messages wide for a word. You couldn't search within somebody's message, which was stupid, right? Like if I wanted to search for a very specific thing that I talked to Adam about, I would just have to search in messages and everybody else that said that word would also pop up. Yeah. So you have to search their name. Wait, really? Yes. Yeah, there's no individual search thread. Sometimes I'm just really surprised. Yeah, Android is not. Android is going to add. It's one of those things where there's a lot of things they add, which you're like, you couldn't do that before?

39:58But yeah, this is the iMessage experience. And I always breeze through these, and every time I say them, there's a bunch of people going, finally! And they're like, oh yeah, people use iMessage a lot. Yeah. So search filters is one. Yeah. Transcribed, inline, audio messages is another. So if I sent someone an audio message, they would just have a little play button, and then it would be a waveform that they played and it would disappear. And if you don't have time for that waveform, you can see the transcription now. Yeah. This is on Slack for like videos. It's so funny. And I think it's the best thing ever.

40:26So having that in there is actually really cool. Google Messages has it. Telegram has it. I think pretty much every single messaging app has been adding it in the last like year and a half. Something about live captions recently has just made me very happy. Me too. I think it's really awesome. And I used to complain about people sending me voice notes all the time because it's like, bro, I'm on the subway. I have to put my headphones on just to listen to your voice note and then take them off so that's really nice to see the sticker experience you were talking about yeah it's like rather than reactions you can just straight up put stickers onto messages now my main question there is it kind of looks like they could put them wherever but they always put them on the right side of the screen but if you're a bad faith sticker actor are you going to just start putting stickers all over your messages so you can't read things anymore Oh my gosh.

41:14Probably. And then your Android friend just gets like, Andrew, move sticker to 300 comma 458. Like, what is happening? And the cool... Yeah. I can't. Maybe, did they only do this because RCS made reactions a little nicer for... Honestly, it feels like it. They want to screw over Andrew. They want to make our lives miserable again. I think that there is probably going to be like no way for an SMS message to interpolate this. We need to test this. Yeah. That's a really funny point. This was 100 % like Apple watching the Google presentation being like, oh, you want us to support RCS? We'll show you.

41:45And then Hiroshi was watching this presentation like, come on, RCS, RCS. And they were like, you can put stickers anywhere. And they're like, how are we going to fix this? There's no way you have an Android person in the group chat if you're trying to do sticker chaos. I have a feeling that this is just not going to work at all. Because if you add an Android person to the group chat, this feature will stop working. And previously, if you had a single Android user in the group chat, you couldn't use any iMessage features except for the reactions and stuff. And then it would do that weird interpolation stuff.

42:18One of the good updates, well, it's actually, you can interpret this in various ways. You could say it's a good update or a worse update. But now, if you have an Android user in the group chat, you can still use a lot of iMessage functions. And I'm assuming that they're doing some weird in-between hacky thing because it's still. It's like my Google did, I guess. Well, that was with stickers. Not stickers, reactions. They would catch an SMS from a reaction and turn it into a reaction in line in Google's app. Yeah, but now you're still able to do iMessage features with other iPhone users in the group chat even if there's an Android user where previously you couldn't besides reactions.

43:01So they're adding specific ones. It's not like every iMessage feature. I think this helps in a lot of ways because it makes it so having one Android user in the group chat will not make everyone bully the Android user to get out of the group chat, which you can't even do, by the way, because it's an SMS chat. You can't leave and enter. You have to start a new one. It's a whole mess. I think that that's good, but we'll see how that plays out. It's just the way Apple likes it. One other thing, I just realized we missed it, but I did think it was kind of cool. Oh, no stickers. Was there anything else on stickers?

43:32Well, you can make animated stickers. Animated ones were kind of... Because you can do the tap and hold thing where you cut out a person from a photo and you can use that as a sticker system-wide on any app. You can also do it with videos now. I think it was live photos. Oh, live photos. Yeah, yeah. So I think it would pick out live photos it felt could do it correctly or look good. And then in the live photos, it would do exactly that. And you can apparently use those stickers in a lot of apps, which is very cool. Yeah, it just adds to your emoji section as your own stickers, which is, I think, really cool.

44:07Anyway, what were you going to say? The check-in feature, I thought, was actually kind of cool. Just like, you know, we all, you tell a loved one, like, oh, about, like, yesterday, told Claire, oh, I'm getting on the plane now. And she'll be like, oh, let me know when you land. Or, like, if you're saying, I'm going to drive back an hour, let me know when you get there. It can tell you said that in the messages. And then a little thing will pop up that says, like, you made it there. Tell them you're safe. for just like if you start going off track and don't quite make it there, it sends an alert to the person you're talking about.

44:38I'm worried about, well, I don't use this, but if I had this, I'd be worried then Claire knows I spent an extra 30 minutes going to Taco Bell on my way home or whatever and like gonna get narked out on that. Turning this one off. Otherwise, I think it's actually kind of a cool thing, especially I'm sure for parents that have kids with phones. I think it's a great idea for women too. For sure. It's a huge safety feature. When she used to go on like first dates, she would share her location with me for the night. and it's like this is I think it's a really good low key safety feature it's one of the things where Apple looks at the way people use the phone and they were like we can make that better and they just did it very cool autocorrect, transformer based autocorrect thank god you can now it'll basically learn how you text so if multiple times you say a word that is slang or something this is the worst part of the iPhone the keyboard is the worst part of the iPhone by far.

45:32Like every time I type a word and I'm like, oh, that's not the word. Delete it. Type it again. It fixes it. I delete it. You should know that when I deleted it twice, I didn't want to say it and then I type it again and it just keeps going and I'm like, this is the worst keyboard ever. Ducking sucks. Yeah. I did like they made that reference. I like that they made that reference. They did make that reference. Because that's the most classic one. Like you type it, it fixes it, you delete it, you type it again, it fixes it again. You're like, in what world would I ever say ducking? I've never said that word before.

46:00So now, Well, number one, it will learn from words that you actually use. Thank God. And it will actually autocorrect and help you pick your next word based on the way you usually say strings of words. There's inline typing predictions, kind of like you have in Google Docs, where if you're typing something, it'll predict the next word, and you can just hit space, and it fills it in. Finally. Yeah. There's sentence-level autocorrection, which is really useful, and that's something that you need Transformers for. These are all things Google Keyboard's been doing for a while. Yes, indeed. We should make a short of this.

46:31Have you ever seen the people who they sing songs based on like the Google Keyboard next prediction? So they just keep pressing. No, no, they just keep pressing. Yeah, next word. And then they have to sing this. But then it usually just gets in a loop. It eventually gets in a loop. We should do Apple Keyboard Song versus Google Keyboard Song. Yeah, after you use it for a month and it really knows you very well, just see what it says. See what it thinks you would say. So yeah, the autocorrect and the updates to the keyboard, really, really useful. I'm very excited about that so anyone can get in case you guys didn't know anyone can get the developer beta now it used to be that you had to like pay$99 sign up specifically as a developer I'm not actually sure if I checked a checkbox that said I understand and I agree and I'm a developer now I'd never I just got the credit card charge for$99 to renew my developer account but I don't need it to have I don't need to pay the$100 to have the iOS beta but yeah if you want to try it it's super not stable actually don't recommend it yet i don't recommend it's a developer beta for a reason maybe the public betas maybe hop on those but that's where we're at can i talk about standby mode really oh yeah yeah yeah okay and last thing in ios which is i don't know why i'm like excited about these things and i don't even use an iphone but the or it's not even called standby mode i think it's just called standby oh yeah standby it's called i think this is i thought it was really cool pretty much and the reason i think this is cool is just because of compatibility with magsafe on all these things where just like you have a MagSafe stand or I think does it have to be on a MagSafe stand or it can be kind of whenever.

48:03I think it does have to be on a MagSafe stand because there's a microprocessor handshake. I think it's better with a MagSafe stand. It will automatically do it on a MagSafe stand. It pushes it into standby mode. But I think on stage they said as long as your phone is charging and horizontal which would sort of require a magnet to do that but yeah it's not always. I have a horizontal wireless charger at home. It just has a little lip on the bottom. So I think yeah the Cybertruck one it would be yeah yeah but anyways the mag safe stands are cool because you can put them kind of wherever and essentially what it is is a mode that just allows like a bunch of different widgets or just like your alarm clock and stuff like that and it's yeah it's just like it's basically a smart home display yeah but i think the coolest thing about it is depending on where in your house you are and you put it on those mag safes it'll like change whatever like you want those widgets to be there so like at your bed it'll be an alarm clock if you do it in the kitchen maybe it's a timer widget or a grocery list widget or maybe sports scores in your living room.

49:02I don't know. It looked really nice. And even when you turn the lights off in your bedroom, it'll change the colors of everything to glow down. It's like the Apple Watch Ultra diving mode red where it's super low light. It doesn't affect your eyes as much. It feels like the HomePod team was like, can we make one with a screen? Apple was like, no. And they were like, but we made all this cool software and all these tricks. and they were like, do we have any other screens we can use? And we were like, there's a lot of people with iPhones. So we built this for the iPhone. I want them to add MagSafe to the iPad Mini and then also allow you to do this in your kitchen because that's basically a home display.

49:41Someone's going to build a stand to hold the iPad Mini sideways and charge it and then Apple will add that feature. I feel like it needs the official MagSafe to do that though so then it does that handshake. That'd be nice. just like at home Wi-Fi iPad mini that can do that on all those stands you can also say hey you don't have to say hey anymore but you don't have to say hey anymore so you can just yell her name you can also interrupt her in the middle of her speaking now and like a new command you can just say stop you can just say stop like while she's talking stop I'm saying it whoa whoa whoa we gotta bleep that out no This is a family.

50:24We can't use profanity on this podcast. That groan happened at the event when Craig just yelled it out loud. Everyone was like, oh, oh. No, my pocket. Everyone was ready for their notes to get all messed up or whatever. Yeah. Google does it at their presentations too. They'd say it like three or four times on stage. I wonder if they have some sort of localized way I was going to say it's like a geogate to turn off Siri. It triggered a lot of things. It did? It did. That's funny. Yeah, I think the standby mode is really cool. there's like a bunch of rumors that they're going to have a home, what is their speaker called?

50:57A HomePod? Yeah, a HomePod with a display at some point. It would be nice. How about a HomePod with a little cutout where you magnetize your iPhone? That could work. Like the Pixel tablet has a stand you just pop your iPhone into the HomePod and then your music connects to the HomePod. This is a free product I just realized, whoops. but then you magnetize it in and then it's got the smart display with like the smart home controls and everything but it's also a better speaker and a long form mic. They call it iHome and they have the little 32 pin, you know? The little dock. I think that's a great idea.

51:33MagSafe is the new 30 pin. Yeah. Dang. Also, randomly, there's a journal app now but it's not out yet. Also, only on iOS. Yeah, it's not on iPad yet. Not on iPad. Which seems weird because if you're journaling, a lot of people would want to use the pencil. One more thing the phone does that's not on the tablet. Yeah, they kind of always do that. And then they wait like four years and they're like, aha, we brought this to the iPad now. We know you've been waiting for this. Except the calculator. We're never doing that. Yeah. But no, we did get iPadOS 17. My favorite feature, specifically, is that widgets are now interactable, meaning that if you have, let's say you have a to-do list app with a checkbox.

52:19You can check the box without opening the app. I know this is mind-blowing information. I know this is something that a lot of Android users thought you could always do on the giant iPad. I cannot believe that that was not something you could do. You could never do it. I've had the, I've had the. How is that a widget? I don't know. It's just a shortcut to open the app. It's got glanceable information, which is cool. So if you have like a weather app, you can't scroll, but at least you can look at the weather. That's so stupid. But like there's so many instances where I want to interact with it and you can't.

52:44it just opens the app. 50 % of the engagement in this video, this episode is going to be like, I've had this on Android for 10 years. There's a lot of things we've had. So my number one question, which I don't think we've seen an answer to yet is, but wait, can you scroll? And I don't think you can scroll. There were no examples on stage of scrolling, which sounds silly, but like imagine a four day weather forecast and you scroll over to the next four days. Imagine a to-do list app with more than five items and you need to scroll down to find the thing you just did. Calendar widget. Imagine a calendar widget with more than five days and you want to scroll to the next five days.

53:20Imagine a contacts list where you want to like contact the sixth person but you only have the first five showing so you scroll to the next five. Imagine. Aren't there like photo widgets also? Like can you not scroll? Imagine all the people living for today. There's a lot of versions of wanting to scroll in a widget. So hey Apple, as long as I'm on the free suggestions bandwagon, scrolling widgets. Remember when I cut Marquez off about widgets before? This is why. This is just like brewing. No, no, you go now. You're in the zone now, dude. It's cool that I can check the box. Apple, I appreciate that.

53:52And you can also add those widgets to the side of your lock screen. So you can sort of redesign your lock screen now with some widgets over to the side. Cool. Check those boxes and the widgets. Nice. Just let me scroll. Go off, King. Yeah. I want to scroll. Oh, you mentioned the weather app really quickly. This is very dumb and very stupid. I just want to note that now on the weather app, they didn't ask this on stage, but it's just an update. You can now look at yesterday's weather, which you couldn't do before. Anyway, we can move on. Nice. iPads. Yeah, talk about PDFs, Andrew. PDFs, you can do them.

54:29Cool, next. No, yeah, I don't know. There's like autofill stuff and like replacing your signature. Wasn't it also, I do think the one cool thing was you could real-time chat with someone else working on the same PDF and add notes that wouldn't add to it. It's in the Notes app. It's in the Notes app, okay. So you can bring PDFs into the Notes app, and it has a bunch of different features that PDFs can do now. Like, you can scan a PDF with your phone. Scan a document. Scan a document. Turns it into a PDF. It automatically knows where the, like, fields are that you want to write on, and it makes those typeable fields.

55:04And can autofill them. And can autofill them. and then you can like draw on top of it and then if you're sharing your note with another person, they can like see those changes in real time and also draw on top of it. Yeah, and I think you can even like, you can add something to it like a photo and then still draw on top of that. Yeah. I know it's just a bunch of layers and all these things sound kind of dumb, but like PDFs are kind of a pain in the neck sometimes. So like, I do actually think it's useful. It's just not very sexy. It's like one of the oldest file formats. I know. But that everyone requires all the time.

55:33All the time. and maybe PR people will stop sending me DocX. When they require a PDF version of it. They always require signatures and they always send me DocX and then I have to convert them to PDF, sign it, and then send it back. Yeah, this is such an in the weeds thing, but if you're a PR manager sending out DocXs for signatures, just take the extra minute, make it a PDF, and then send it to us and sign it. I think that's an evergreen PR statement. It's like, PR guys, just take an extra minute. Just take a second. We'll all appreciate it way more. Think about what we're doing. I know nobody watching this understands what we're talking about right now, but we have to sign a lot of NDAs and documents, and it's always a DocX, and nobody wants to print it out.

56:13Anyway, I want to talk about AirPods. Adaptive audio is a new mode. Very cool. And I thought this was interesting. So there's transparency mode, which is now adaptive transparency. It's pretty cool. It's mostly transparent unless a loud sound comes through, then it protects your hearing. Then there's noise cancellation, which is just reduce everything and listen to your music. but now the new default is called adaptive audio and i had to get some clarification on this but it's basically a constantly adapting level of noise cancellation based on your environment which is cool and it will be transparent when it detects you start talking yeah because you're now in conversation mode so if you are walking down the street and a car passes by it'll turn that up so you don't hear the car passing yeah or maybe there's a siren and you do need to hear it i don't know i don't know exactly how this works i need to test it but it seems like it's supposed to be smart about this stuff you're ordering a coffee and you don't start talking turn it to transparency mode i think they just want to make it so you have to touch the stems as little as possible yeah it just automatically that and also just like safetiness so you can still walk down the street while being able to like really hear your music but like if that siren happens or if that like really important safety issue is like making noise that can alert you like this seems like basically it's for the wear airpods everywhere people yeah are we at that maybe you guys know because you're maybe wearing AirPods more.

57:32Are we at that stage of society where that happens? Where we like, I don't know, even transparency mode on like my LinkBuds, if someone talks to me, I just take both of them out because I feel rude. There is a generation of people. We're getting there, right? No, there's a generation of people who just wears them all the time. They wear pods for sure. Actually, Miles wore them nonstop for like the first couple of weeks. That's because he's 22. Yeah, I'm a boom. I'm old, man. Oh my God, I'm old. You take them out of your ears when you talk to me. Sonny? No that's a great point actually I always take my earbuds out when someone stops me on the street but I would bet you that there are a lot of younger people that just like And they're not wrong they just understand it and like I think there's so many people when I'm talking to them I don't know that they understand that I can hear them and it just feels good.

58:17The gray area for me is on a flight because I have the AirPods on and a lot of other people do but I still like take an ear cup off to talk to the flight attendant but also like flight attendants see this all the time they must know that we can hear them through the headphones so maybe I don't have to do that I don't know. I don't know. Note, this feature is not coming to AirPods Max. It's only coming to AirPods Pro 2. Not even AirPods Pro, just AirPods Pro 2. Okay. So it's truly for the wear them everywhere people. Yeah. I'm actually not a huge fan of this feature, like the more I thought about it, because the Sonys have a very similar thing, the over-ear WH-1000XM3s, I think?

58:51Slash 4s, whatever it is. Slash 4s, yeah. Where if you start talking, it'll like pause the music or enter transparency mode or something, which sounds great in the theater. I hate it. Yeah, but if you're home and it just happened to be singing, it just like comes out. I always turn that feature off when I use it. It wants you to know that you're singing and that it doesn't sound great. So listen to yourself. I think the M4s added the automatic feature. On the M3s, you would hold the ear cup and it would turn on transparency. But I have to always download the app, turn that feature off, and then use the headphones.

59:21You don't like the Sony app? Next topic. It's a bad app. I feel like by the time we get to the point where we're all comfortable wearing earphones to talk to people all the time, people will start having things on your face and then we're gonna get into the weird stage of do I take my goggles off to talk to someone? Are you saying Dyson's ahead of their time? Quick things, TVOS now supports FaceTime so you can put your screen up. Who is going to do this? Well, see, this is the thing. This is the third theme. It's like Apple looks at what people are mostly doing with their phones and they're going, oh, that's a lot of people doing that.

59:54We can make that better. There's a lot of people who are on FaceTime who want to put it on the TV. And I've witnessed this with families. They're like, oh, there's nine people in the room. We all want to see Grandma, and they put it on the TV. But then the phone, the camera's here, so now they have a dock. They put it up next to the TV so everyone can see everyone. You have a dock in front of your TV, and nobody has a dock for their TV. It's a small niche thing that some families do that it'll be better for them. Also, how am I going to text when my family's boring? That's fair. It's at the TV now.

1:00:24Yeah, but they already narc you out because if you're on FaceTime and you like multitask while you're on a FaceTime, no, it makes your camera black. No, not with the newest FaceTime. Wait, really? Yeah, the newest, I think iOS 16, it continues your camera feed. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay, good. So you can multitask and it doesn't smoke you out. In the past, it was like, yeah, it'd be like, this person's not big. Like, this person's peacing out, bro. It's not listening at all. But yeah, I just feel like if you need to buy an additional hardware dock for this one niche circumstance that you don't use that often.

1:00:56I don't know if you need a dock. I just know that you can - Well, you need something to hold your phone. Exactly. I was going to say rest on the TV, but a lot of people mount TVs. I don't know. I don't know. Anyway. It's a thing. Yeah. Is that the only thing where TV is? Well, and then there's the TV share play in hotels, right? Or sharing in - Well, that's it. is that tv i don't know yeah it's tv os okay airplay airplay yeah i don't know when they'll add that it'll take a while uh one thing that they're adding is you can use your own photos for your apple tv wallpaper now and it's basically chromecast from literally like 15 years ago the original chromecast that just would use your google photos albums and kind of rotate through you can now do that so apple's looking at what their own users are doing and they're looking at what everyone else's users are doing yeah we could do that too yeah uh okay watch us 10 10 they had a sick as crap can I say crap?

1:01:52you can say duck they had a sick as duck animation for watchOS 10 that was that one right? the intro video was so cool I think David and I looked at each other and were like that was pretty sick I feel like they ditched a lot of just the drone shots for this and they did all these animations in between everything they were really good I do miss the drone stuff but the animation for this was it was pretty epic it was really good I don't like the logo for watchOS 10 I think it's kind of boring but all the logos are boring. Yeah. Wait, I just remembered something. Sorry, that also is WatchOS 10 but we'll talk about that in a second.

1:02:23I thought some of these were pretty cool but I'm the only one who doesn't use an Apple Watch and everyone else around me says this looks nice. I don't use an Apple Watch either. Tell us what I'm going to enjoy. Is the SmartStack widgets not a pretty cool idea? I thought that seemed really neat to just be able to be like, okay, I have a bunch of widgets that's basically taking account for what I'm doing in a day. And then when I scroll up, it's going to show me the widget that's most likely to be the next thing that I have to do. It didn't have to be a whole new OS version, but yeah, it's a cool feature.

1:02:57Well, they were always going to push a new OS version. Yeah, of course. I mean, it's definitely not the big redesign that we thought that was rumored to happen. There's some cool things like they make things, there's more stuff that happens in the corners of different apps. And the health, I did like the full screen health app. I don't know. That's mixed. So now you used to be able to see your steps, your move time, and your stand time all in like one screen. And now they're full screen. Is that still not there? And now just when you go into each individual one, it's like a more detailed version.

1:03:34It might be behind a click. I think you have to look at them on each individual page. And it does give you more information about that metric, but you have to like scroll to a new page every time. I mean, I guess ultimately the rings are that information first and you see them all together and then you go into more individualized ones. Definitely. Okay. That's true. That's a good point. Yeah. There's also Snoopy face. You guys aren't pumped about that. I actually thought that was cool. It looks nice. It's a watch face that has Snoopy and the bird. They sit on your clock and they play things and they do shit.

1:04:10And like, anyway, when it, when it rains, like it, it adapts to the weather. So when it's raining, he has a little umbrella. That is true. Is this a new watch face or is this a new OS version? What are you doing? There's an entire new operating system? Yeah. I guess. For Snoopy, baby. There's a couple of cool activity changes. Yeah. One that I really, really like. There's a bunch of cycling stuff, but I don't understand anything about cycling. So if you like cycling, it was probably cool. And they're like, your max power level. I think you can connect it to a stationary bike and actually get cadence and stuff out of it, which is pretty cool.

1:04:46Yeah, or connect it to a monitor on a bike where if you're actually cycling, it'll show the information that that monitor is knowing on your Apple Watch. I think it also goes vice versa where it's gauging how your potential power output is based on your watch and the metrics from your heart rate and everything, and then it displays it on a phone that's mounted on your bike. Yeah, so a lot of people bike with a separate meter that shows them things like power and cadence. And that stuff will pair to your watch and show it in line with your heart rate and everything else, which is pretty cool. I was just completely confused about that.

1:05:18But yeah, cool. I liked the hiking updates. And mostly one specific one that was essentially, it will auto-generate a waypoint in the hiking app that shows the last place that you had reception or the last place that you also just had somewhat of reception that you can send SOS signals. So basically when you're hiking, if you're losing reception and know you need to call somebody or are in a dangerous position where you need to send an SOS, you can know the last place where that is available. And it'll track you back to it. I think that's stupidly cool. I think that's so handy. Great safety feature.

1:05:50So handy. The other thing I just remembered, though, wasn't there something with golf swings where it can tell the angle of your wrist? Call me a skeptic. Call me a skeptic. So I think we need to test this because my golf swing, I have enough power to drive the ball, but I shank. Is that going away from me? You probably are slicing the ball. Slicing is away from me? Where it starts off straight and turns to the right. For me as a righty? Yes. Yes. I do that. So let's see if it can fix that. So they showed a demo where you swing, and then because it's on your wrist, it shows it knows your angle of impact at the ball.

1:06:23I mean, I guess they're pretty precise sensors. I just, man, golf swings are complicated, and that I am very skeptical about. So we'll see. I would like to test it because I think I have enough power to where it would be noticeably different. Because when I do actually hit the ball correctly, I feel like I have a decent, it's a decent hit. But 99 % of the time, I'm just hitting the right net at top golf. It's like swaying it into there. They showed like at impact, your hands were open. And that's like on its face is really cool. But like people have weak or strong grips. So they won't be open at impact, even though the club face is open.

1:06:58So do they line up their hand with the club face or not? You don't know. You just have it on the wrist. You don't know a lot of things about the golf swing. so we'll see this is what people feel like when I start talking about basketball I don't know much will this help my mini golf game? open your hands a little this is better for mini golf because it can tell easily like when you're putting and you just do the simple back swing and forward swing like oh okay I know if I went open or closed because it's a very obvious movement but the golf swing all kinds of other movements happen I'm just imagining the driving ranger people like fix my swing just screaming at the end It can only tell you what's wrong with your swing.

1:07:35It can't fix you. It can just tell you what you did wrong. No one can fix you. Not how to fix it. Just go to therapy, people. Men will literally analyze their golf swing before going to therapy. Factual. On that note, we'll probably take a quick break. Wait, wait, wait. There's more. There's more what? There's the hiking stuff. Oh, yeah. Well, we said that. Well, the topographic map. There is a topographic map. Cool. Seems cool. All right. Now we'll go to break. Now we'll go to break. we got a lot of we got a lot of headsets to talk about because apple didn't make a new first gen product there's one more thing what's the one more thing okay okay there is actually one more thing there is now a mindfulness app uh where you can like log your mood you can describe how you're feeling which i think like journaling your mood is probably a good this feels more like the journaling app than the journaling app it does um but the thing that was kind of weird to me is that you can also they can pull up a test where you can like take this test and depending on what you say it'll like suggest you go talk to someone and that's i think that's good in general it just it's very interesting to see how into the health stuff apple is willing to push right because amazon you know recently bought a medical company and i could foresee apple also becoming like we have more health data on you than like almost any other company so okay spoiler alert this is sort of a preview into a really interesting conversation we're going to have on the podcast soon with a doctor because there is a ton of apple watch versus health questions and then the mindfulness and then how do you diagnose versus use what the watch tells you so that's going to be a whole episode so stay tuned for that subscribe if you haven't already to see that but um i think the the funny ironic part to end on is there is a data point which tells you hey you've been really close to a screen a lot lately maybe maybe back off a little bit and be further from a screen and then we immediately got into the next product which is strapping screen to your face.

1:09:31So on that note, we'll take a break and we'll come back and we'll talk about Vision Pro.

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1:12:03All right, welcome back. We got one more thing to talk about, just like Apple had one more thing to talk about. And it was the first generation of a new product category. A watch. No, just kidding. It's a headset. It's an AR VR headset. And this, again, completes the theme of Apple not wanting to use words that other companies use. At no point did they want to say this is an AR-VR headset. No, they said XR. They didn't say virtual reality very often. They actually called it spatial computing before they said AR-VR. But the point is it's a headset that you put on your face that costs$3 ,500. $500 will come out early next year.

1:12:48And well, they gave a bunch of demos of it. I got to try it. It has a bunch of really interesting tech. Let's talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. So on the like XR extended reality spatial computing idea front, I actually, I was thinking about this all night last night. I was like writing about my feelings about this headset last night just to get my feelings out about it. i actually think that the journal app no it's not journal i actually think that the extended reality like spatial computing phrasing is really good for this headset because it is not really supposed to be a vr headset like it is so for those listening and also watching there's like this digital there's a digital crown on it that you can turn and as you turn it it takes you from the real world into a more digital world and you can just on the fly whenever you feel like it put yourself more in a digital world or more in a real world and i think that that is a really good idea because virtual reality headsets you only are able to be in vr and for so many people that means that the only use case for using a vr headset is basically like playing games or that kind of stuff right whatever is in a virtual world yeah yeah but that means that you're gonna only be in that virtual world and you have no other options and most people don't want to be immersed in this virtual world for a long period of time because one just evolutionarily people don't like not being able to see or feel what's around them like there are predators that could attack you right um and so i think that apple wants this to feel just like an extension of of what you're already doing, which is what AR was originally sort of intended for.

1:14:36And the reason I think that Google Glass was one of the best inventions ever, but it just got completely destroyed because of privacy concerns. But I think their point with this is that they want you to mostly just be in real life, but then be able to use those experiences when you want to. Interesting. Yeah. Do you wanna talk more about what the headset is? Yeah, I'll give you the breakdown basically of controls versus other headsets. So if you've ever seen an AR VR headset, typically a VR headset is this plastic shell you strap to your face and then you get a set of controllers or you can do stuff with your hands.

1:15:11This is a metal and glass headset that you strap to your face. There are no controllers being made for it. It isn't controlled entirely by your hands, your eyes, and your voice. The eyes is the craziest part. This to me is like the big difference really with like an Apple product. Obviously there's a lot more to talk about, but really it feels like the innovation here was UI again. Like it reminds me a lot of the first iPhone where you have this like pinch to zoom moment on stage and everyone goes, whoa, you can just pinch the screen and make it bigger. And it seems so obvious now, but the same thing happens in that headset where instead of like the normal experience, which is I have the controller, I point out in space and I hold a trigger and I like drag something.

1:15:56and this one, I just look at what I want to touch and then I just touch my fingertips together and it clicks it. And your fingertips can be anywhere. They can be in your lap. They can be off to the side. Almost anywhere. Almost anywhere. As long as you're in the front somewhere. But honestly, so I did my demo. I did it by accident on the couch next to me and my fingers connected and I clicked something by accident. I should say you have to try to be out of range. Sure, of course. Yeah, you can't do it like this. Yeah, I heard people talking about how they were testing it and it does get to a point.

1:16:26Or if I guess something is in the way of your hands. Right, yeah. So there are cameras, two on the front, two on the side, two facing down. So generally think about that. That's where it's sensing things. It's a 180 degree field of view, basically. Yeah, it's got a super high resolution display for each eye, well over 4K. It's the sharpest VR headset I've ever seen. It has a lot of cameras, and the two on the front are for stereoscopic 3D, and it does full color pass-through. it's the best pass through in any headset I've ever seen. And then the eye tracking is borderline telepathic. So what happens is with the headset you start with a calibration thing so it shows some dots on the screen like a dot appears and it shrinks down and you look at it and then another dot appears and you look at it and so it's looking at your irises.

1:17:12There's a bunch of sensors on the inside to see what your eyes are looking at. And then once it's done with that it opens up, you get to the home screen and the UI is there. You hit the digital crown, the apps show up and you just look at the icon and it highlights like me and then others are still and you look at another icon and it's like oh me and it's this really interesting like telepathic dance where like I look all over the screen and as soon as my eye stops it highlights exactly what I'm looking at. There's a home screen bar at the bottom. There's a little icon to like drag to make windows bigger.

1:17:41God there's so much to talk about. I know. I look at a window. I select it and I push it back in space and with incredible precision and responsiveness it moves it around the room exactly where I want in any UI direction. There are shadows cast under the windows in the room. So I'm moving a window back and I see it cast a shadow. I have Safari going. I'm scrolling up and down. You know with like the physics of like an iPhone scrolling, you can like scroll it up and catch it and like toss it around. You can do all of that in the air in real time. Unbelievably responsive. More so than any I've ever seen.

1:18:13I mean, I tried the Quest Pro and the Quest Pro is as close as I've seen to that. There's a PSVR 2. Just this one is the highest quality UI of any headset I've ever seen with the pass-through and the eye control and the hands and everything. A lot of other interesting features. There's the iris scanning unlocking. It's called what? Iris? No, what is it called? Optic ID. Optic, thank you. Optic ID, yeah. Optic ID, just because your eye is as unique as your fingerprint, so that's cool. Borderline creepy. Borderline creepy, but at least it's just like IR cameras and it's fine. It's for sure on how to unlock something like that.

1:18:50And I think the most iconic piece of this whole thing is this headset appears to be transparent, but it is not. What you're seeing when you're looking at the headset and there are eyes looking back at you, it's actually just a sort of a – it's an OLED screen flipped around showing what your eyes are computed to look like on the inside. But really, it only shows up when you're in some sort of a pass-through mode and you can see other things in the room. Yeah. As soon as you're not in a pass-through mode, if you're watching a movie or you can't see anything, it shuts it down, you don't see the eyes, and it's just like an animation.

1:19:24And this is one of those things that is, it's fascinating. I don't think we're going to see any other headset do this. I think it adds a lot of cost, it adds a lot of weight, and it adds no benefit to the person actually wearing the headset. It's mainly just so that you can wear it without looking like a meme. The eye thing? Yeah. I think the eye thing makes you look like a meme. Well, it does, but I think they were specifically thinking about how do we make this acceptable to wear out in public. But no, don't do it. Also, I do think they would argue that the part that is benefiting the person wearing it is in that situation, someone comes into your field of view and you're trying to communicate with them is you don't have to take it off now.

1:20:05That's what they want you. They don't want you to take it off. And like that taking it on and off is benefit. I'm just, this is their argument, not mine. it's beneficial to the person wearing it because you're not taking it off I think the weird thing about the eyes is like I think it shows one of the coolest things that I think they did really well and then everyone's only focusing on the eyes which is kind of the weird part it's really cool that you can have windows open and someone comes close enough to you where it assumes you want to like they want to talk to you like you're not stuck in this this VR world that part is really cool where it comes forward and it pushes them through the screen and that's when it activates the eyes because then you're communicating with them.

1:20:45That is really cool. And it's only when you make eye contact with each other. So they can be in here, but only when you look at them, they sort of fade into your virtual reality. Well, they need to be able to... They fade in if they just get close enough. I don't think so. Well, you can't make eye contact with someone if there's a window. You can because you can look over it in that direction. If they come from behind a screen, you can't make eye contact with them. They're not always going to make it into those spaces. If they come from behind a screen, it goes like 10 % more transparent than usual.

1:21:18And you can see that there is a face there. And then if you choose to look at the face, then they sort of like fog away. It still like finds a way to fade someone in when it thinks there's someone in close enough to you rather than just being completely oblivious to the outside world. Yeah. Which is a feature I have not seen on other headsets yet. It's an incredible feature. Incredible. Like the way that it does it is so amazing. Yeah. Just the fluency of them slowly fading in, and then you kind of look at them, and they fade in a lot more. And then even if you're in full virtual mode, if you're looking at them, suddenly you've just got this person that's there as well.

1:21:55It's freaking amazing. It's so cool. That sounds kind of creepy, but also is way less creepy than somebody just standing outside, and you don't know they're there. So I think that is an awesome feature. But then that feature, everyone's just thinking about the stupid eyes that come up in front of it, which is like, it's so cool and so memeable at the same time. Like the whole crowd was laughing when they kept showing eyes coming through. It was really interesting. So just disclosure, David and I have tried the headset and we've gotten our demos of it. And there was like a 30 minute full demo of a bunch of different features.

1:22:26I want to hit on a couple other features and things we got to try. One is you can do FaceTimes in the headset. It's its own computer with an M2 chip and an R1 chip, which is doing all the real time processing of the sensors. And you can jump on a FaceTime and you don't have to have it paired to an iPhone or anything. It's connected to Wi-Fi. And you pick up the FaceTime and there's like a window or two windows or however many people are on and you can see everyone's FaceTimes and their video feeds. But what do they see? Oh, funny you ask. They will see a 3D reconstructed version of you that is sort of animated in real time to match the way you look.

1:23:02And you actually have to scan yourself in by turning a headset around and scanning yourself as a registration process. and so then there's this like high res cartoon version of you and I actually got to chat with one of them which I assume you did too it's kind of like Google Starline-ish a little bit worse quality I would say so that was interesting to see. The demos made it look like and you guys can confirm this like the quality of your face in Starline was better but the like cut out of Starline was really rough and that looked like the actual image of it was better just like lower quality.

1:23:35Well so there's no background or anything yeah it's just kind of like a floating but starline had like that weird like squiggly cut yeah because they tried to put you on like a fake background yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean starline was a million times more immersive because it's a 60 inch real screen but this was more just like a little floating window in front of you yeah and uh like a wii sports avatar yeah it is it was sort of this weird like you know how meta announced the the really high resolute because there's that meme of Zuck like standing in front of the Eiffel Tower like looking like worse than a Wii graphic.

1:24:10And then they're like, no, no, no, this is what it's actually going to look like in the future. And they have like this way higher resolution. You're going to be able to scan yourself in, yeah. It basically is like that. And it's this weird like, you know it's digital because it's got this weird texture to it. Yeah, that's what I was trying to explain. Like it looks from the things and like you looking at it as prior, almost looks like, do you know when they like blend a bunch of faces together to show you like the like what the average person would look like or like if we were all together it's got smooth it's like an uncanny valley thing and i i don't know if people are going to respond well to this they might get used to it um but it's just strange like previously apple you know in facetime allowed you to be a emoji and yeah i think that's so far away from uncanny valley that people were just like used to that.

1:24:59It's just a funny thing. But this feels like what a sci-fi representation of people are in holograms. This one I feel like is why you have to look forward into the future because this is the first gen version of it. But let's say theoretically in the future this gets much better, much smaller and much higher quality. Then maybe it's acceptable to jump on a FaceTime with a high res animated version of you and there's hand tracking and face tracking and stuff. It's got good mapping of your face though because it's got those downwards facing cameras that are seeing your facial expressions. So it's not just guessing what your facial expressions are.

1:25:34The one thing that was pulling me out of it was like the movements around your eye, right? Like it knows the direction you're looking because it has the iris scanners and stuff. There's a lot more happening. There's a lot more happening that you're not even really noticing actively like in your cheekbones and your eyebrows and stuff that those were pretty static. And that's why it felt a little weird. Well, you also have a thing pressing up against your face at that point. And so those things can't really move the right situation. Exactly. So yeah, that was strange. This feels like a kind of weird, like when you're going to FaceTime your friends or your family and you're the only person with this, are they going to be like, I don't know how I feel about this?

1:26:10Probably. A bunch of people in 2D and you're just like. It just feels really impersonal. Right. I said this in the video. Like when I'm FaceTiming friends and family, I'm trying to see my friends and family, like actually see them. And at this particular moment, this 2023 version of it, it does not feel like I'm actually seeing the person. maybe in the future it's so high res and accurate and it's a recent scan because this is the thing i could scan myself a month ago and i'm using that old scan it's like that's not what i look like right now but maybe eventually gets really good and it feels like i'm talking to a person but right now it feels worse than a facetime this is like a better version of an audio call but worse than a video call i was gonna say this looks like a better version of the like meta like ar vr business stuff this feels like a business thing not a person yeah like i wouldn't care if i'm just doing a meeting with it's like you guys like and we're doing like oh let's go over and edit or doing something in 3d like i don't care quite as much as like what we feel like we're doing in the moment but facetime feels way more personal and this feels a little weird for that this to me feels like a perfect feature that will make sense in 10 years like the digital crown right now when you rotate it it'll go from vr to ar right yeah the goal is to always have it rotated so that you're just in ar is that not the case well in 10 years they want you to always be in AR.

1:27:22Not necessarily. They already want you to mostly be in AR. But you can switch it to VR. But you can switch it to VR. Because sometimes being in... That's only because that's what we're capable of right now. I don't think like if this was just an AR machine, that would be weird. Like they have to add the VR things. No one's going to wear this for the functionality of what's currently available with AR. It seems like there's a lot of potential use case in each. Like with AR, with having like your computer monitors up, but being able to see your co-workers around you, just like that feels like a kind of useful AR thing.

1:27:53But if I'm watching a movie, I don't want to see anything else. So like VR, I want, if I want to watch a sports game or a movie or something, I want full VR. But I feel like they're only adding those features because they have to because the headset is so big. Adding the VR features? Like if they could have made the glasses yesterday or two days ago, whenever they announced this, they would have just done that. We're so far away from that. I think that removes the ability to do most of the best stuff in VR, which is like, we have cool games we have cool experiences if I want to like really immerse myself in this virtual world that was a lot of the interesting stuff too it's like they showed a bunch of content that was shot for it and it was really really immersive and good it was and I think if you don't have the ability to shut out the outside environment you don't fully appreciate that I want to specifically like first of all yeah like the immersive stuff watching movies was really interesting I've watched I've used so many VR headsets where like you basically have a 200 inch display and it actually felt like I was in a movie theater like they put it far enough back and there's like this kind of like this depth that you get even in full VR that I've never had from a different set before but specifically the like XR mixed reality feature that kind of blew me away the most was how good it is at understanding spatial reasoning so so first of all when we were doing the demo you're sitting in a couch and the display pops up in front of you and you can pin windows and stuff when i say pin windows like with other ar stuff that sort of understands your space the the windows will kind of like kind of glitch around they'll jiggle because they're trying to understand like where are you again like but no it's like you can walk around the room and if this is here it is there it is not moving at all if you put a window on the ceiling it'll be spin around and walk around the room and look back up there it's exactly where you put it that was one of my questions because Andrew and I didn't get to try it.

1:29:45So when you walk in for this demo, is there furniture in the room? Or is it just a blank? They did a decent job. It was a normal looking room. There's some photos. If you look at the Good Morning America interview, there's stuff maybe not as cluttered as an average. Yeah, there's a couch. There's a table in front of you. I actually think the more stuff you have, the more tracking points it has to latch onto, which is probably fine. But yeah, it was a pretty normal room was the goal. I think the demo that really showed that off to me the most and that blew me away the most is first of all, every single VR headset that you will ever use has or air headset has a t-rex dinosaur demo for some reason to make it just so you get that like oh i'm scared of this large thing but there was a that exact dinosaur demo i think they showed it in the keynote but basically this this gate portal thing opens up in the wall and it it feels like it's the wall is opening up because the spatial pinning is so good but the thing that was interesting about this demo is they're like so get up walk over to the wall you know they actually have you walk around and the cool thing is like the the refresh rate or whatever and it's and the cameras are so good that i didn't feel like i needed to like be careful about where i was walking i felt like i could just walk freely through a space the transparency was good enough like i walked right around the table if i can cut you off really quick i don't think people understand how important that is like we've tried every single pass through you can probably think of and they're not great so like this is one thing specifically looking at that that I'm glad you guys got to experience was like, pass-through's not very easy because there's, you have to have different cameras and the 3D space is like not, remember that one, I forget what that headset was, but when you went into pass-through mode, things further away and things closer to you would start wobbling off axis of each other because like those cameras aren't like computing them together well.

1:31:28And that just immediately is like, I'm in this weird space and I do not feel comfortable moving. Totally. So that's like, that's really really impressive it's hard to tell how impressive it is here's a really niche way of understanding that that only us will understand you know we've tried to play ping pong in other headsets you could do it in this one yeah you could actually play ping pong with the headset totally no it's so it's so good like I felt no oh god I'm gonna trip oh god maybe I don't see this thing oh god maybe the refresh rate's not high enough especially cause depth is usually a problem like I feel like if I toss something up in front of me I would maybe be almost able to catch it, but it would like hit me in the wrist or something.

1:32:06I'm throwing a frisbee at you when we get this. I think we can do it. I'm hucking it. I think we could do. Well, we're playing guts. I don't know about that. But I do think if I wanted to play ping pong virtually with someone in AR and I could stand in front of a table and play like a real fun game of multiplayer ping pong. The apps are going to be fun. But yeah, so the spatial reasoning thing with this T-Rex demo specifically that was like, oh my God, was they get you to stand up from the couch you walk over like to the wall with the gate open and everything and the t-rex is like coming out and he like comes out of the wall and it doesn't matter like usually with these demos you have to stand straight in front of the wall and if you kind of like get off access a little bit it kind of messes up kind of like the starline thing but with this you can like go over to the other side of the room and kind of look at the wall from over there and the the space is exactly the t-rex is exactly rendered perfectly quality and it knows where you are so it like comes out of the wall a little bit and it kind of gets up to your face and it's snarling and because these this headset also has spatial audio so not only is there like the spatial rendering of your vision but there's also the spatial noise and it makes it so immersive because you're like here and the t-rex is staring directly at you you feel it right in your ear if you turn like to your right you feel it's like snarling in your ear it's it's it's crazy it's really hard to explain because i know that a lot of people have tried these kind of demos and it's like uh like the first time i ever tried vr was trying a vive in a microsoft store and i play this game where you're underwater and there's like a whale that goes over you i think it's called like the blue and i felt my heart start racing because i felt the scale of the whale it was kind of the same thing with this yeah i actually there was also some footage that was like because i think with the t-rex i kind of could not really fully suspend disbelief because it's a t-rex yeah and we like held our hand out and like a butterfly landed on our finger and stuff and that was cool but there was also footage where like a baby rhino yeah the rhino walk right up to you i was like i now know exactly what it would look like if a baby rhino was right in front of me apple's got the money that could have been real it it was i didn't smell it but i saw it so it was speaking Speaking of that Rhino demo, they had a few of these like XR videos, right?

1:34:27And another feature they added to this headset that everyone was memeing, because you should, is that because they have all these cameras on it and they're all at sort of different angles, you can take 3D videos, right? And so they have content that is like spatial video content, which all the demos they had on the headset were really freaking cool for the spatial video content, except they suspect apparently that people are you can also take your own 3d depth videos right and they had this moment in the keynote where there's this like child's birthday party and it's this little girl with all her friends and there's a cake and she's blowing out the candles and the smoke is like going right into your face and every it's kind of like half faded out half faded into reality so it kind of feels like a portal into a memory yeah which is exactly how the idea of a portal into a memory would look in like most sci-fi stuff I thought you dripped water into like a sorry I don't want that's a Harry Potter reference different genre and it was fine it was cool I think the thing about this is that first of all making something 3D does not inherently make it better we learned this with 3D TVs with 3D movies like In some cases, it...

1:35:45How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man? Sometimes it takes you out of the immersion, and it was kind of cool. But the thing that makes this truly terrible is that if you're the dad at the birthday party... Dad, why do you look like this? You've got this giant headset on your face, and you've just got your stick in your head right into the birthday cake. Let me get the angle. Let me get the angle. Let me get the angle. Imagine the eyes also are like... Oh, the eyes are on. As good as this memory could be. and now you as a parent get to look back at this later. Imagine that child's memory of now wanting to blow out their candles but their dad's just hovering over them with these bulgy eyes.

1:36:23Come on, do it. Hold on, I'm not recording. I just feel like with photos and video, there is a point of diminishing returns where adding extra immersion features to the photos and video really just makes it worse. I can see 3D photos or memories like that being something kind of cool in the future, but you have to not diminish the experience in the process of capturing it. Correct. This is doing right now. This is another look 10 years into the future type thing where theoretically the tech gets nice and small and it looks like a pair of glasses and it's not too bad and you can record this ultra high resolution memory and relive the memory without looking like an insane person.

1:37:00Maybe that's fine. I don't want to take away from being 90 and being able to like, oh, this was my kid when they were 10 blowing out a birthday cake. That in general sounds cool. Yeah. But you're messing up that entire experience. You're messing up your child. Just put that technology on a GoPro on a stick. Sometime in the future they'll figure that out. I don't think this is it. I just want to say how black mirror this is, by the way. It's like your wife dies way too early and then you're just like, you're sitting in your headset just like watching her on the couch doing, like, you know, in every like sad movie, they're running on the - You replay the memory like six times in a row, like, I wish I was here again.

1:37:38Yeah. it's like holy crap yeah um yeah it got dark yeah because this because i think a lot of the discourse around this was like this feels really dystopian because and i think a core problem potentially with this headset or with any xr headset is that this is such a you and only you device right every video that they showed they didn't have multiple people in the room except for playing that video of the child's birthday party. It was always one person sitting alone in their$5 million apartment. And that was it. In the workplace, they had a bunch of examples of the workplace and having people handing you things.

1:38:17But I do agree, it's never two people using the headset. It's not social. It's always one person in the headset and other person not in the headset. I think while we're on the topic, let's go over the couple of negatives, the downsides that I was immediately able to pinpoint just to get them out the way, right? So one of them is it's$3 ,500, and that's obviously going to limit how many people are going to try it. I think that's intentional, though. Yes, that is definitely intentional. And it's got Pro in the name, and obviously you can see a version in the future with not Pro in the name. Number two, so this is interesting.

1:38:48There's no haptics because there's no controllers. And I think that's fine, but it was interesting that it could sort of take me out of the full immersion. Maybe you can add gloves in the future. I don't know. You say there's no haptics, but this is something I talked to with Shen before, asking him why all hand gestures in VR seem to be tapping. And he said because that is a haptic. That part is haptic. People like, I guess there's still the flicking thing, which if you flick, I guess there is still some sort. But he said the reason they do hand gestures like that and not just pointing is because you're making some sort of contact.

1:39:21And that represents it better. Yeah. But all the rest of the stuff, like scrolling in Safari and hitting the bottom of the page, everything is virtual. like when something when I wanted to like pet the dinosaur or the butterfly landed on my hand and you feel nothing and you feel nothing like we did the haptic gloves demo and that's like so far from like solving the problem but that's just something I noticed I do it's intentional obviously I don't want you to have to have a controller number three is it's heavy it's glass and aluminum and it's it's got a separate battery pack to save weight but even that it's heavy even without that battery pack how big is the battery pack it's hard for me to like get scale scale.

1:39:58You just don't understand scale, Adam. I don't. It's smaller than a phone, but thicker than a phone. Two phones. It's got a USB-C port on it, so you can plug it into the wall for all-day battery, which is a hilarious spec. Or plug it into another battery pack. I did not like the non-replaceable USB-C battery pack. Just have that. I understand that it needs to have the locking and mechanism and the nice wire. Just put a USB-C cord at the end of it. Think of it as a power brick. Think of it as a laptop with a power brick well it's a laptop with no battery inside and a power brick where the battery is in the brick like a desktop so like if you ever want to unplug from the wall a desktop nothing just the battery but if i ever want to unplug if i ever want to unplug from a wall i have two hours to find a plug basically that's how it goes i two hour battery life yeah i don't know i think they're reasoning andrew for the reason that it looks nice and it's apple no it's you can't put that much weight also on the headset well no no no the reason it's not That's removable.

1:40:55Yeah. Okay, the reason I think it's not removable is because they don't want the USB-C cable to just come off, and then all of a sudden it just goes to black and dies in the middle of it. Apple is so intentional about, we don't want this to feel, we want it to feel like such an extension of your reality. We don't want you to suddenly be like, oh, what happened? And then you have this weird shock value. To your point. They do have this pin hole in the battery that I assume is a way to remove the cable if the cable breaks. So you can replace the cable and not replace the battery itself. The cynic in me says that they'll sell this for$200 in the Apple store.

1:41:34The battery? Well, it should come with one battery. I think they should sell a bigger battery or additional batteries. Yeah. But yeah. I just think it's weird having to plug two battery packs in at the same time. I agree, for sure. No, you only plug one in. But you can plug that battery. Yeah, but if you want that to have more, then you plug another battery pack into it. And be mobile if you don't want to plug into the wall. But, like, come on, this whole thing is not to be connected to the wall. Like, it should not really be in that scenario very often. It's interesting. Yeah, I kind of wonder.

1:42:02I don't know yet, but I wonder how much of this will be used plugged in versus not. I kind of suspect it'll be plugged in a lot. I don't know. I feel like that takes away from a lot of the things you guys are describing that are really good about it. Watching a movie on the couch. Watching a movie, sure. Using it as a computer at your desk. It can be plugged in in a lot of these situations. Yeah, but even at your desk, then the wire's getting tangled up in the chair. because you're like, I don't know. I don't think that, yeah. I think a lot of people will be double battery packing. Just make a backpack.

1:42:29Well, you shouldn't double EcoFlow on your back. Just plug right in. Yeah, so you can disconnect it from the headset. It's like a quarter turn locking thing, so I assume you can just unplug that and theoretically buy a bigger battery pack or whatever. So you should never have to have two battery packs. From them? No, some third party is going to make a bigger battery. Do you think they'll allow them to do that? With that connector? I don't know. I hope so. I'm assuming that's a weird connector. They'll have to license it. MFV? Made for Vision. But the locking mechanism, I would bet you that they patented that and made it proprietary.

1:43:03It's just like no one makes MagSafe stuff now. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I would bet you that because they probably don't trust third parties to have a battery that actually doesn't take you out of the immersion randomly. I think it's a weird spot. I'm sure I understand now, but also something I didn't hear either of you guys talk about, or just really anyone, is there's also another strap that you can have that goes over the top of your head. They didn't mention that in the keynote or anywhere. I think that's also intentional. It is an optional accessory that's probably in the box that I think everyone should use because it's so heavy that you're going to want to use it.

1:43:39I completely agree. I heard it's so heavy that it sounds like almost everyone will be using it, but I guess it just doesn't look as nice when you're presenting it. I will say the materials are insanely nice um the strap is really crazy nice one thing that really like kind of blew me away is like when you put it on when you're tightening it a lot of the a lot of other headsets you have to just kind of like pull it and like tighten it around your head this one it's got like this kind of crown that you like you twist and it's got a clicking mechanism ratchets it's got ratchets and you you hear it and feel like and it's it just feels so smooth and seamless but you feel it slowly tightening around your head yeah i think it's really those are for like minute adjustments right like i think there was they said there was some sort or that's for the main way to modeled to your no the strap is not modeled to your head the light seals around it are they mentioned something in the keynote that was like there it was adjustable and then that was just for like minuscule adjustments when like and like on the fly for like oh this is now feeling too tight i'm gonna loosen it up that's true but you also have to use it to put it on like you have to like loosen it to be able to take it off.

1:44:46There are other VR headsets that do that. But the quality and the mechanism is so good. The material is pretty great. Again, it's heavy, but it is really high quality. Also, the head strap that you were talking about, the way that you tighten that is also very seamless. And everything about it is modular, so every single part you can take off, and almost every single part of it is also machine washable, which I think is awesome. So you can clean it and wash it really easily. And the main actual headset is not huge it's just the mechanisms to keep it on your head are at a lot of volume yeah did you have any other questions about the demo or anything I don't think so yeah I think the main two things like from not just you guys but everyone that I talked to that tried it it was the main things I said was that worked way better than I expected because everyone saw no controllers and thought I've tried every other VR headset and that's not going to work and they were very surprised but it worked and then it immediately went to and that was heavy and the battery pack's kind of weird but then like i don't care i loved using it and that was wild oh and then it's really expensive think about it like a first generation of a new iphone it almost feels hard to think about as first generation because it sounds like it's working so well it's just priced like first generation and maybe there's not as many things available it just has so many parallels to me to the first iphone where number one right now it just has apple apps and of course it's going to launch next year and we should have a bunch more apps but it has apple apps right now and those are the ones that sort of demonstrate how you're going to use it and what it does best and then the ui and the way you interact with it is the revolutionary part of it just like how pinch to zoom was incredibly responsive and worked so well on the first iphone compared to any other phone this one the eye tracking and the hand tracking and the way you move those windows around and interact with things and scroll it has the same vibe it's like i've never seen a headset do it this well and if it gets better at all i'll be very happy i do think that's something that i asked you guys after which was like this worked so flawlessly and was so amazing is part of the reason we're so impressed by this because of all the ones we've tried before it that i've tried to do it's a huge aspect they just are not good yeah it's the iphone of headsets yeah that's i think that's like kind of the crazy part that when you look at 3500 i still don't know if i was like this stuff works is that worth that but it's just like that stuff didn't work this does i still don't know if it's worth it but it's really cool other versions of it's doing yeah other versions of it worked pretty well but wouldn't have all of those things at once like sony has good eye tracking but not the most incredible hand tracking yeah like the oculus the quest pro the meta quest pro had decent pass through and like is lighter and could do some of these things but you needed controllers.

1:47:34It wasn't good enough though. It wasn't good across the board. There's a point of no return where like I could not if I used anything worse than this now I would just be like this sucks. If this is 60 % as good as you guys are saying it is it blows the MetaQuest out of the water. It does. And I think it's way more than that like I believe everything you guys are saying and this feels like the MetaQuest Pro is horrible. And that's exactly why I don't think this price you can't really compare the price to anything else because it's like everything else is garbage and then this is really good. The reason you can compare the prices is like, am I spending$3 ,500 to do these things in here?

1:48:10For sure. Like the usability. The usability, absolutely. If we're just comparing, like if you 100 % want these AR VR goggles, then the price is there. I'm not saying people should buy this necessarily. If you want to reduce it to just a checklist, it looks insane. It's like, can you watch a movie in the regular Quest? Yes. Can you watch a movie in this? Yes. Okay. Can you use hand controls in one? Yes. Can you do a hand control to this one? Yes. So they both like check most of the boxes. Pass through? Yeah, pass through. Tracking? Yeah, tracking. Apps? Yeah, apps. Games? Of course, games. But the difference is so much more than the check boxes.

1:48:44I think if you want a headset, I would spend the extra money on this. I just don't know if you're not sure if you want a headset. If you're not sure if you want a headset, don't buy any of the existing headsets, including this one. Also, something that's interesting to me is that when Oculus announced the Meta announced the MetaQuest 3 like last week, right? I watched that intro for that video and they were like, we have 500 apps. And I was like, that is not very many. Considering like considering how long the MetaQuest ecosystem has been around, 500 apps is not very much. And also, I would bet you that 75 % of those are garbage.

1:49:23Yeah. There are probably only people buy - It's like Android flexing how many apps there are on App Store. It's like, well, how many good apps are there? Right. Where the interesting thing with the iPhone, for example, and the Android App Store, is that it's a multi-tool that does literally everything. If I never use this one thing, but then at this one moment, I'm like, oh, I really need a light meter. I can look up light meter, and there are just a bunch of light meter apps on the App Store. right and I think the interesting thing that the that Apple ecosystem has if Apple is actually able to get so many developers to port their apps to this to make new apps for it is that they're just going to blow every other headset out of the water in terms of what can you do with this that's the Apple superpower yeah that's I think that's a good place to end it which is like it is early it doesn't come out till next year we've only got to try for 30 minutes there's not a lot we know yeah but what we do know is this is going to slot into the world of VR headsets where the The advantage to any one headset typically has been quality or features.

1:50:22And the advantage to this Apple one is going to be now there's an entire giant developer community that's like feasting over like, oh, this is it. I'm going to make the best app I can and blow up in VR. And this is their chance to make the best apps possible. And those are all going to really showcase what this thing is capable of. And the technology will back it up and there'll be quality experiences. It will ride or die on if there are good apps for it. so it's kind of like a chicken or the egg thing. Yeah, and I think they had to make the good hardware to entice those developers, and they did that, and because they've nailed that, I can't wait to see what apps show up, and we just have to wait and see.

1:50:57And we don't even know what they're going to make yet. We'll just wait and see. There could be an incredible calculator app, for all we know. So sick. I have one more point that I want to make, and it's that this is the only product that Apple makes that isn't an accessory for the iPhone, right? The AirPods are its own entire industry, and they're an accessory for the iPhone. The Apple Watch, accessory for the iPhone. MacBook. The MacBook came out before the iPhone. True. But you could argue that so many of the things that make the MacBook useful is that it works with your iPhone. I think that's true about the headset too.

1:51:31But what do you do, besides having an Apple ID and like doing FaceTime and stuff, what necessarily makes this an iPhone accessory? Well, not an iPhone accessory, but it's an ecosystem plug. where like if I look at a MacBook, my MacBook screen levitates out the top and suddenly I'm doing like Final Cut editing with a trackpad and all this stuff. If I have messages on it, FaceTime, it's like the ecosystem plug part is real even though it's not an iPhone accessory. But you could just have a MacBook and an Android phone like Alex does and use this headset and you don't really need an iPhone. Apple ecosystem in general is that everything works better when you have everything together.

1:52:09But some things kind of only work if you have an iPhone like the Apple Watch. You know? Yeah. yeah this is its own i think this is kind of like a mac in that it's a standalone computer but it will definitely plug into the ecosystem really well by design and that's why i think the 3500 price i guess it's stupidly expensive for sure but you're also buying basically a whole computer it has an m2 in it whereas like an oculus quest it can play some games but you can't do what you would do dragon something xr1 or something yeah but you can't do on an oculus quest what you can do on a macbook before i don't think we should well quest pro is the only thing we should compare to this an oculus quest is just sure it's not the same thing but a quest pro doesn't really have like a desktop kind of like format right it could you could pair it to a mac you can pair it to computers but you don't have to pair this to anything no yeah it's its own standalone it has an m2 chip if you think about it as a computer 3 500 isn't that exactly but chances are you're not replacing a computer totally yeah for sure somebody's got to do a I can't wait for a benchmark of like, can we just run Geekbench on all these headsets of like the M2 gets a trillion points and then the Snapdragon XR gets like whatever it gets.

1:53:17It's just absurd. It doesn't actually matter. So before we go, I know we said no trivia, but I do have a fun trivia thing for you guys if you want it. Okay, yeah. When was the last time Apple did the whole one more thing on stage before this headset? A long time ago. Was it the Mac Pro at Dub Dub? I was going to say Mac Pro. Mac Pro, David.

1:53:38you're saying the the cheeseburger no it was the iPhone 10 iPhone 10 oh yeah yeah because they released the because they did the 8 and 8 plus and they were like wait okay one more thing you guys know it was iPhone 2017 iPhone 10 dang wow okay well that's good to know we got a lot more upcoming a lot more coverage obviously stay tuned the studio channel has a video we got an episode a bonus episode on the podcast channel we've got the main hands-on on the MKBHD channel autofocus dropped a Prius review we're popping out all kinds of great videos so watch those and no trivia of course we'll be right back next week with a bunch of cool stuff thanks for watching and listening we'll catch you guys in the next one peace

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