Will Apple Make a $599 MacBook?

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1:02We need to remember what we lost. What they took from us. Dude, I feel like explaining to people how cool it was that you could go on the internet while your parents were on the phone feels so distant. But, like, that was groundbreaking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You didn't have to announce, like, I'm using the computer. Mom, I'm on aim right now. Can you take the phone call later? You just booted me.

1:30What is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another wonderful episode of the Waveform Podcast. Hans Marquez, I'm your host. One of them, David. I'm Andrew, and I'm excited for this wonderful episode. It's going to be a wonderful episode because we're going to be wondering where the heck Marquez is because he's still not here and it's troublesome. He's coming back next week, theoretically. You can watch his games on theworldgames.org. They're all free streaming, and you can watch the VOD because it's in China, and it's usually on when we're all sleeping. Yeah, we have a description. Yeah, he's still in China.

2:06Hopefully, he'll get back next week on time to talk about Pixel. He better. Next week's Pixel Week. This week, we have a lot of interesting stuff for you. Mostly, it's a very AI-heavy week, I'm going to say. Notably, OpenAI released ChatGBT 5 the next day after we recorded the podcast last week. So we're a week late yet again, so we're going to discuss that. But there are good things about that because now there are actually reactions to it and we're not just saying what happened. They brought back GPT-4-0 because people apparently are in love with their chatbots now. Elon is suing Apple again.

2:43And Perpuxity is offering to buy Chrome for a lot of money and it won't happen. but first we finally got our official first look at the pixel 10 pro fold from google after they shared the pixel 10s last week i have not seen this yet so i'm saving my live reaction for the podcast wait let's see your live reaction you've already seen it i'm ready yeah i'm ready live reaction live andrew reaction cam oh that's the pixel 9 folds yep pro pro pro fold pro fold what What do you think? It's the same picture. Yep. That's right. All right. Sick. Next. Moving on. All right. I want to bring up something from last week.

3:24Yeah. The end of the podcast, we had a discussion. It was actually a trivia question that turned into a discussion about me putting folders on my dock. Right. And I felt like everyone was attacking me here. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. I'm glad you felt that way. I guess actually first, Ellis was not here. That's true. I would like to see Ellis' take on this. Okay. What is your thought on having folders with apps inside them on the dock of your phone? What did I say to you when you showed me? Because I got back from being sick and you were like, Ellis, I need your opinion on this. I don't remember.

3:57I think it was something along the lines of like, it's aesthetically, I can't co-sign it, but I do understand the like two tap, like the way your brain just sort of gets used to blind motor skills sort of stuff. You know what I mean? Like I could totally see myself it being really efficient to just be like Spotify or Bank of America. I agree. For those that didn't listen. Until you download something new. Yeah. For those that didn't listen last week, one of the trivia questions was how well Andrew and I know each other. And one of the questions was what apps are on our dock on our phones? Andrew has two folders full of apps on his dock.

4:36Two folders with 12 apps each. so i you could have picked one of what 24 plus three others 27 apps and you would have been correct on it i did get all four right you did get them all right yeah um but so yeah i like it it's like second nature to just click things and if i download something new it doesn't because they're folders they don't change my app drawer i like never go on my app drawer pretty much my my overall argument is you can never change them or you're you have to retrain your brain no I just change I like if I have to put something new in I take the least used app and put it in that exact spot so nothing else moves that's already too much it's not okay whatever well me not being you know really petty about this control f'd my name in the comments of last week's episode and found well over 100 responses what either agreeing or disagreeing with me and And I have the final tally here.

5:31Okay, I'm ready. In favor of Andrew and folders. Here we go. 111. In favor of no folders, 18. So there's 111 people that are psychotic. Do these people actually have the same setup though? Or are they just saying it's okay for you to be this? No, no, no. A lot of them said folders in. I specifically did not pick the people who said, this is such a good idea. I'm going to be using this from now on. I will say the 18 people, You were all really mean about it, though. Diabotical. Psycho. It was name-calling on top of... It wasn't just, this is wrong. There are dozens of us. It was aimed directly at me.

6:14But I think folders wins. I'm just happy that... A lot of them were Android users. There were quite a few people who said, I'm an iPhone user and put folders in my dock. Thank you. I'm happy that we have a diversity of opinions. You guys want to guess what's on my dock? It's just straight to the battery percentage. Yeah. And also guess what's on my dock? Battery percentage while we're here? Oh, yeah. 61. 61? Andrew? 67. Andrew has it at 68. We're cooking this morning. It's 1130. It's a little later than normal. Yeah. I think I may have charged my phone a little bit in David's car this morning.

6:59Oh, yeah, true. My dock is really boring. Oh, yeah, what's on your dock? It's the default. Messages. Close. Messages is on there. Safari. Safari is on there. Phone is on there. Camera. No, there's nothing. It's just three. Oh, yeah. I remember seeing that. That looks so weird. When I was hanging out with you early this week. Yeah. And I was like, oh, you have three apps? Yeah, yeah. So it's centered. That's, you know what, I like that. You can still center four things. Can you put five on an iPhone dock? No, right? Not on the MIDI if you can. I think you might be able to with a small, I don't know, actually.

7:31All right. Well, we're going to move on to our first actual story here, which is that Apple is reportedly making a$600 12.9 inch MacBook running Apple Silicon. We talked about this earlier in June, actually, because there was a rumor that there was going to be a MacBook with an A18 Pro chip in it or an A18 in it. And now we have some more details according to DigiTimes that says that this laptop could start between$599 and$699, which is crazy. That's crazy. That's a very specific range. The price? Like they're very confident. Yeah, they're very confident. Not even like, oh,$499 to like$999. They're like, no, it's within$100.

8:14Yeah, well,$599 to$699, it's like that is pretty amazing. I think they're definitely going after sort of the cheaper like Chromebook kind of crowd here. A lot of Chromebooks are obviously still cheaper than this. But a lot of people are very used to macOS or, you know, just want to have a lightweight, small, thin laptop. We've talked at length about how we want the 12-inch MacBook to make a comeback because it was so incredible, so thin, so small. And I think that could be really cool. Min Ching Kuo, who is a leaker for a lot of kind of stuff like this, is suggesting that it could come in silver, blue, pink, and yellow and would be powered by the A18 Pro chip from the iPhone 16 Pro.

8:54I would get one of these so fast. Yeah. This is awesome. I mean, even just on top of people wanting macOS and stuff, some people just want an Apple product. Yes, that's true. I think we all know that. And the cheaper you can make a person in class be able to open a laptop and an Apple logo point out, you're gonna make a piss ton of money off that, like if we're being honest. It's also beneficial for Apple because they've already made a ton of these A18 Pro chips. And so the more they can make, the more the price goes down per unit. They probably have leftovers from the iPhone 16, you know, that kind of stuff.

9:26And that's the reason that Apple for a while was, they were taking last year's Pro processor and basically putting it in the next year's cheaper phone because they were, you know, it was just a way for them to like use old stock to lower the price of the unit. Now, because it's the A18 Pro, it would not have things like Thunderbolt support, so it's going to be a little bit less capable, but I think a lot of people would probably be okay with that. A question I have is whether or not this thing would have the Apple C1 modem that we saw in the iPhone 16e, because it would be very nice to be able to have a super thin and light laptop that had its own mobile data.

10:09every time you bring this up it's like why don't we yeah well it's mostly the modem stuff yeah and now it is very easy to tether to your laptop from your phone especially from an iphone to in a macbook and it even pops up pretty instantly that says do you want to connect to your phone so it's not that big of a deal but i think the ability to just bring your laptop with you and not think about anything a lot of people would pay for no i totally agree i also it's funny because out of all the things i would want on this thunderbolt is something i probably would want because generally in a smaller computer you probably have less storage and being able to just have like the fastest ssd on top of it especially because you're down to pay more because you've spent so little on the actual computer itself but i guess if you're spending the less amount you're probably not dealing with big video files or yeah lots of images stuff like the people that they're aiming this at are not necessarily people who are going to be dealing with that kind of yeah they accidentally made the apple silicon macbook airs like too good yeah you know what i mean like like that's actually like such a capable computer for so many non-professionals workflows that like it's kind of overkill if you just need something to like take notes on so yeah i don't think anyone would miss thunderbolt because i think already this computer's not going to be able to do anything in imovie and most of the people who are doing stuff even with just like notes documents school stuff all that's cloud-based at this point anyways you're in like drive or something so it's not even taking up space which ironically was the whole point of the chromebook in the first place yeah so yeah apple just wants a little market segment of that it'll run uh angry birds really well though true because this is an iphone processor okay um next story uh google is apparently adding a language tutor mode to google translate hey hey it was It's kind of cool.

12:00Yeah, we agree. I agree. Oh, you're excited for this. Okay, so Android Authority did a teardown of a new Google Translate APK that included effectively a whole-ass AI-based Duolingo competitor, which is very cool. You can tell the app your goals for learning the language, like if you're going on a trip or if you just want to talk to a spouse or something more often. And it will personalize the learning experience for you. so it's got an audio mode which plays words and different vocabulary for you and you tap the ones that you recognize uh there's a speaking mode where you can practice your pronunciation it looks very full-fledged surprisingly it looks quite built out you should go check it out on the android authority website they have a whole video where they where they show it in action so i mean most of the ai stuff is just putting together like a little interface like a specialized interface for you so yeah i don't know i'm terrible at languages i wish i was better this did remind me though do you guys know that youtuber that like all of his content is like i surprised blah blah blah by speaking like uganda yeah yeah speaking like mandarin yeah like at a chinese restaurant yeah he did one recently where i surprised chat gpt by speaking computer language and it's really funny you should watch he goes into it by like talking to chat gpt in different languages and he's like can we just practice and it goes back and forth and then i'm pretty sure he starts talking in hexadecimal and he just says a bunch of numbers and i'll be like when it does that chat gpt starts going like wow you can speak in hexadecimal and then starts is like can we go talk in a different language and like and then he talks about like the robot uprising it's like chill man let's go talk in like french again or something like that and gets like really uh like nervous sounding you should go watch it um that's very funny he's i think his content is very funny that's cool yeah um should duolingo be nervous about this no you're a duolingo user yeah you're the heaviest duolingo user here what do you think what am i chopped liver chop ellis and i both have a streak that i keep failing at but i think this has potential to make them shiver a little bit but i think duolingo has such a like gamified version that this is more i mean from what we've seen so far it looks more like very practical it looks like hey i'm taking a trip next week or in a month like let me learn some quick language things so i know how to use the bathroom you know duolingo is more it's way more social it's way more fun so unless they start adding those types of features i'm not sure that this is like any direct competition yeah i don't think that they're trying to make like a full fledged you know competitor um but it is interesting to see something that google has made that's been basically the same since they made it and adding all these additional features i'm excited because there's a lot of i shouldn't say a lot like i'm trying to learn all the languages but there are a lot of languages that duolingo doesn't support still and it doesn't seem like they're going to support them anytime soon um so that i are in google translate so i noticing that Gemini can whip something up real quick.

15:06Yeah, I mean, so this is an APK teardown from Android Authority. So I imagine that this is going to launch very soon, which makes me wonder if they're going to highlight it on the pixels. That might be something they do. I mean, Gemini is already still pretty good at talking languages. Like the other... Well, actually, I'll do it right now. Hold on. Hey, I'm trying to learn Spanish. Do you think you could pretend to be a Spanish tutor and help me?

15:38It kind of does this already. So like, I don't see it. It would have been nice if it was like, Hey, you're trying to learn Spanish. So I'm not going to just straight speak Spanish directly into Spanish. Where you learn man immersion. I have a question about Duolingo. Is it all like, like you need to be present on your phone typing and pressing things. Right. Can you just do it by listening? So here's my question. But you two are riding the bus or the train and can do it on that. I'm driving a car when I'm commuting. Is there a way to try it? You want the old school learn Italian cassette tapes?

16:10Kind of, because I can't use my phone when I'm driving. You know what is better than Duolingo? That should give them a run for money. Just type in whatever language you want to learn on YouTube and then the word Spongebob full episodes. And I'm not even joking, because if you're like us and you just know every line of the show anyway. No, but I'm not even like, it's actually been like so helpful. There have been multiple times where I've heard a word and been like, oh, Spongebob said that. He said it like. Maybe I'll just start watching Spongebob. That's the pro move right there. Watching cartoons in the other languages.

16:48Lastly, before we go to break, I actually think that Ellis is going to like this a lot. there's this new app from the maker of Crouton which is that cooking app that they made like a Vision Pro version and it won like an award it's a very cool cooking app they just released a new app called Cassette oh I saw this it looks so good Cassette is cool I downloaded it this morning I'll actually just give you a little live demo but basically what it is the idea was that we used to have camcorders and on these camcorders you would just record a few seconds put the camcorder down a few days later you'd record a few seconds of something put the camcorder down you'd record random events and then the tapes that you would have at the end would just be these tapes of like random moments of time that were all just sort of stitched together and you'd label it like 2018 or like april 20 you know 20 1996 something like that you know um and so the idea of cassette is basically to do that with your videos on your phone all right so this is the interface it effectively creates all of these different videotapes of different years of videos that have been taken on your phone and it has like a tv with a vcr above it yeah so it feels like you're like pulling out of your vhs catalog right and so you there's a take me somewhere button which basically randomizes which one you watch but if i hit like the 2018 one it takes it out it puts it in the little tv and then you can you can play you can fast forward you can rewind or you can like randomize but it'll i guess 2018 is probably not the best one to do because i only have one video from then uh hold on yeah there's an eject button so let's just say 2023 so it puts it in there's vibrations it's very cool and then it basically puts this like little uh kind of like vhs effect on top of the video and it also puts like the location and the time and the date it's pretty much like a uh oh there's me talking oh i remember that that was the scrapped youtube short that we made um but oh and then a concert that was also why i was with you yeah yeah we were we went to this concert together and it's kind of nice you you can just sort of just like watch all of these old videos that you've completely forgotten about it feels like kind of a a more fun version of the like, this day in like Google Photos, like X amount of years ago, or like you were doing this five years ago, but it's stitching it together so you don't get the choice of doing it.

19:17And I guess it will bring back kind of like memories. Maybe you forgot about it in a fun old way, even though it's very funny that it's pretending to be a VHS tape when almost all of it was definitely recorded on your phone. Oh yeah. But that's the thing is like, your phone effectively is a camcorder that we use all the time and we almost never go back and watch these videos but this sort of gives you like a fun way to you can like sit with your spouse or something and just like randomly watch a bunch of videos that you've taken on your phone like five years ago does it take videos from your iCloud um only local videos because i am not sure mine only shows like from like this week and last week and adam changes his phone every three weeks it's not very useful for me yeah it's probably yeah I'm not totally sure it's only iOS correct yeah right now it's only iOS Android users like to have fun we have folders on our docs we know how to have fun come on yeah that's true anyway I just thought it was fun and very cute it's a really clever app I'm just nervous that this is going to be built into Google Photos like next week so I actually talked to the developer a little bit they said they want it to be Sherlocked why?

20:25they said we built this because we really want there to be more like of a vibe when you're going through these features and we like wouldn't mind it being Sherlocked because we're like not trying to make money from this we're just trying to make phones a little more fun to use that's cool that's exactly what I would say if I wanted to make a lot of money off of something maybe because Google Photos does do this already but it does it terribly it does like a weird basic track in the background Google makes it feel like a remembrance video like someone died it's like someone died yeah no like um apple photos also does this because there's now the memory movies that you can make where you can describe something and it's giving me suggestions moments with lee over time a relaxing afternoon in the park evenings out in san francisco with epic music it already does this but it's very like evenings out in san francisco wait i wish i would i made the i want to make this ordering us pizza at 1 a.m and it has this like animation which is cool oh my god you guys are so lame wait is it epic music it's like me having dinner with epic music it's so cringe wait you picked the oh that's google or that's in your gallery this is the this is the memory movies through apple intelligence and it's just random like videos yeah that's pretty rough anyway yeah it's it's pretty rough stop so yeah i don't know fun little thing try it out the the nice thing is like you can download it's free and then you just you can just watch some random ones and reminisce a little bit and then if you're done you just don't install can i ask a question about it sure if it has a feature and if it doesn't they should have this is there like a way to cast to your tv through it um because that would be the best way you mean airplay yeah yeah is there not google cast on iphones at all man i'm i really it depends on the app developer if they want to like put it in even airplay or whatever i feel like the coolest way to do this would be it feeling like the vcr and then it's casting to your tv like you're watching on an old tv i don't i don't know about airplay yeah i'm gonna guess not you probably have to airplay your whole phone screen yeah probably um question for you if i were to use this app just as a camcorder will it do that like every time i open it up it records on the same tape or does it just like access my album it just accesses your yeah there's no way to um like record continuously no you can't record through the app on the same file you can't record through the app that's what Yeah, and then the other thing is, I guess there is a paid version that's a one-time purchase of$8, and it lets you manually select videos.

23:10So I guess you can't normally manually select them. But I think that's part of the point, is that it sort of just randomizes, and it's fun to just watch the old stuff. I find this so interesting, this trend of all these old analog things coming back in the form of apps, because we missed putting things in. Ellis and I were talking about this at his apartment the other night. like ls has this amazing multi uh cd that andrew mixer the andrew gave him yeah that's how i was pointing out i was like you brought all this joy into my life and it's so cool the only time it's so cool because you can you can put up to five discs in it and there's a randomized feature and it there the number of the song on the disc disappears after it plays and there's just all these really cool there's like a big grid of numbers from one to 25 or however many songs are on the album and every time a song finishes the number goes black and so it's on shuffle it'll like speckle out yeah it's cool i don't know sick my parents had one that held like like 50 cds in this it was basically a big spinning rack that held them all vertically and would spin around and i guess it would like feed it into the thing and my brother in christ that's a jukebox pretty much yeah i remember it they yeah yeah it's funny because this is just how we used to listen to music like this makes me feel old i know no i don't know you want to feel old feel aol's killing dial-up next month oh my wait it's still going yeah there's a lot of people that still use dial-up 160 000 people according to the 2023 census actual people that use dial-up or is it like fax machines or people who still pay just don't know they're still paying yeah yeah yeah no no i mean speaking of like just really quickly just the things that we've lost none of this is on the docks by the way i know we're just going off the rails now apple in the most recent beta of uh mac os tahoe and i think the ipad os version added in preview because the preview app's icon is a loop which if you don't know is like a little magnifying glass that you put on the back of a four by five camera so you can see the critical focus that you're focusing on or so you can look at a positive piece of film on a light table those words mean things they do and And they added a little Easter egg where you can now move around a loop on the app.

25:25And it's just for fun. And someone had tweeted about it and someone commented, wow, typical Apple adding useless features. And I'm like, bro, if you, like, come on. Do you want no fun in your life? I hate whimsy. Literally. I'm like, does everything have to be practical? Jeez. Also, before the dentists and jewelers get in the comments, loop is any sort of small magnifying glass that sits in front of your eye. That's true. It doesn't have to be for film. Yeah, yeah. But it is for film. I use it for that. Or what's the camera one called? The Chapman's Loop? The one that like suctions onto the rear screen?

26:06Yeah, Chapman Loop. Yep. So, anyway. Speaking of epic music in San Francisco. Oh. What does that have to do with San Francisco? Yeah, I thought we had a new... Speaking of epic music in San Francisco... Uh-oh. What's that? Head-to-head Trivia!

26:32What's up? Welcome back to my first round of Super Head-to-head Trivia, because I was sick last week. But first, a correction. Because two weeks in the future, I will make a mistake. And the reason I can say that is because that is when trivia extravaganza X.0 comes out. But in that episode, which no one's heard yet, which we could just edit. Yeah, wait, why? But we won't. Why are you editing? I said that Claude was a Dutch name when it's actually a French name. I forgot one of the most famous Frenchmen of all time, Claude Monet. Yes. so I apologize for when that happens nice real ones know no they don't they will know it shall be known guys in this second instance of super head to head trivia the game where we ask you guys questions about each other to test your friendship this time we're going to be asking each one of you one question about the other person per break so this first round David we were going to be asking you a question about Andrew.

27:42Ooh, okay. And that question is, what was Andrew's first job? I'm kidding. That's not the question. Oh, okay. It could have been. But something that Waveform listeners may not know is that Andrew has a tattoo on his shoulder. What is this a tattoo of? Andrew's thinking? No, I'm thinking of how Alice knows that. No reason. Because we're buds. Yeah. House. How do you know that? We'll be right back. I've got a tattoo somewhere else.

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30:39When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th, And never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end-to-end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn more at whatsapp.com. Okay, welcome back. The biggest story that we missed last week, because it happened the day after we recorded, as usual, is that OpenAI released GPT-5, which is their newest model. The big, yeah, I know, I know.

31:20Yeah, pretty much. this big ai wave kind of happened because chat gpt launched with gpt3 so we went through gpt4 which was like a pretty massive improvement we had gpt4.5 for a while there was a 3.5 in there too and then we've got all these micro models like 4.0 and all these things uh but for a very long time people have been waiting with bated breath because the jump from gpt3 to gpt4 was so big people were thinking gpt5 was going to be just as big it's not there's one thing i've seen about all this and i don't even know if it's official but have you seen that photo of like comparing the size of gpt4 to 5 and it's like there's it's just a photo of a circle that says gpt4 a picture of the sun which is like quite a bit bigger and then a picture of gpt5 that's like three times bigger than the sun yeah is this official or it's been on the gpt subreddit for a while i don't think so when we were going from gpt3 to gpt4 people were making a bunch of memes like this okay so this is probably a meme and they were showing like the data size scales and they were just making it like ridiculous they're saying gpt5 is gonna be this big uh yes probably not so anyway um probably one of the biggest updates in gpt5 is that you no longer need to select the model we've talked about in gemini in chat gpt the most confusing thing about using these products is that they have all these models like flash or like deep thinking or deep research like all these different things or pro yeah all these things and for a regular person it's like how do you know which one is better for what and it's confusing and having to do that is annoying same altman did eventually say yeah this is really annoying so one of the biggest updates is that they basically have an auto model router now based on your query so whatever you ask it it's supposed to automatically route you to the right model for your task okay which has saved open ai quite a bit of money they mentioned because you know can use flash more often when people would use the the bigger model at different times you know things like that um something's also interesting is that pro users are soon going to be able to connect their gmail google contacts and google calendar to jet chat gpt now i'm sure you couldn't already do that well this surprised me a lot because it seems like that's one of gemini's most powerful assets right like google has been in this incredible position because it has all of your data already not only does it have all of your like search data from just using google but it also has all of your emails and has your calendar and like the things that you want agents to do or that you want your virtual assistants to do is to take action on things like your email and your calendar and search through things for you so that has kind of been a thing that chat chpd has not been able to so it's it's just surprising I'm wondering and I'm guessing that there is some insane huge backdoor deal where OpenAI is paying Google a ton of money to allow for this.

34:15I guess can I don't know the exact what does it take to be able to like log into something via Google? You know, like getting that pop up. Oh, off. It's like it's a thing you build into your app. So basically you don't have to handle any of the user data yourself. You just let Google handle it and Google authenticate to you. Yeah. So, like, does Google have to pay? Because, like, can Google stop me from deciding, like, I want to give ChatGPT all my information in that sense? I don't know if, like, your Gmail, I guess your email data would be something that you could pass off. Yeah, I mean, I think it's wild to do that.

34:53And I think. I mean, we do it all the time. When you log in with your email on, like, Apple Mail or something. Yeah, this is true. This is true. It specifically mentions logging in with Gmail, Google Calendar, and Google Contacts, though, which is different from just, like, the raw file types, you know. Does that include... I don't know if that's as crazy as we're thinking. Because that would be the same for me as, like, logging into a calendar app, logging into an email app, logging into a different, like, phone app. like it has all that information that i put in there myself but it doesn't have like my search history you know like google still has that crazy amount of data yeah and they get it by itself yeah by default they just get it no matter what you don't have to opt in yeah when you use google search and you're like logged in your google account or if you use google chrome like all of these are ways for google to get more information about you um so i don't know i'm gonna have to do some more research about that it is interesting that's yeah see if that's like good relationship if you can just give that even top level information to chat gpt and ask a questions about your calendar like that's kind of what i would be very surprising to me that they didn't do that before which is why i'm thinking there must be some sort of deal right like i feel like when they made all of the because they made all these gpts that you could use a long time ago they were like specialized for different purposes and it seems like being able to access your email would be one of the first things that they'd want to add but who knows so that's interesting they bumped the context window up to 256 ,000 tokens from 200 ,000 and they have a new nano a model available that is cheaper than Gemini apparently uh anyways it's been about a week since it launched so of course uh you know they launched on Thursdays now we've had time to actually digest this update see what people are saying about it and it's not all as positive as uh OpenEye would have liked you to believe when they announced it most people are saying that it feels a lot colder and more generic and data driven than emotionally driven which is great which is really good that's what i want from my tool yeah i don't i hate when things are data driven i know yeah i mean one of the main updates to this is supposed to be that it hallucinates significantly less um great and that sounds great yeah but there was a lot of backlash because initially when they launched gpt5 they just killed the 4-0 model which was like the previous model that people had been using and apparently a lot of people got very upset about it because they had formed emotional bonds with their robots which i really thought was going to take a little bit longer to happen um but apparently not apparently it happened immediately so that's not fun I mean now maybe GPT-5 will just understand when you're typing in a query that you wanted to be emotional about it and send it to GPT-4-0 without you knowing which one this ain't grok based on the backlash Sam Allman did say that they're going to be tweaking things to make it have a little bit warmer of a personality and then also give it access directly to the deep thinking mode when people want it also apparently people were saying it felt a lot dumber than 4.0 and then Sam Altman said that on the day that it launched the auto model switcher was broken which that seems like an excuse I don't know anyway a lot of people are not super happy with it but I do think this is probably going to be the future of these services is that you're just going to have some kind of AI model that you go and just ask things to and you're not going to have to be like I want it to be faster this time I want it to deep like think deeper this time if i'm seeing if it sounds like the two biggest things here in terms of like features are auto choosing which model to use that sounds like a great feature i totally agree that like ai's whole thing is supposed to be like this is easier you can use your natural language you can find stuff out without having to like learn seo like speak so being able to pick or having to pick between them before was dumb yeah and like really confusing so doing that is awesome colder and data-driven also sounds incredible to me.

39:12I think that is a great move, and I think maybe I wish it was even colder and more data-driven. That sounds pretty good. So this sounds like they knocked it out of the park. Yeah. I guess if people want it to be... Nah. Yeah. I don't like it. I guess it could, like, the same way it auto-detects your query and decides a model, it could, like, determine how warmly it speaks to you, based on your question you know because if you're like hey i don't know what's the difference between these two things it's like okay let me be like friendly and if you're like hey i have a medical condition blah blah like help me figure this out then it'll be like more to the point yeah they specifically said that it was much better for medical queries which go see a doctor yeah can you not just ask it like if you want it to be less cold can you just be like call me senpai you know and then it'll like do that that's i kind of assumed that but like that's the problem is if you can keep asking it to do things that you want at what point is it not just i need a partner that's i need a partner to at least sort of predict my needs i mean this is we've talked about this before but a robot that is just going to be like affirming all the time people are just going to turn into narcissists there's plenty of manosphere podcasts that you yeah that will do all of that yeah well i don't know no one's going to push back on you or the AI is never going to push back on you.

40:39You know what I mean? So it becomes a problem. The very, another very funny thing that came out of that launch was that they released a bunch of graphs to show how much better it was at certain things. And these graphs made literally no sense. I saw Vergecast talking about this. It's basically, like they're bar graphs and some of the numbers are not even remotely close and they're exactly the same size. It makes no sense. This one is an academic graph that just says software engineering bench verified with thinking without thinking and a lot of these graphs like they're the exact same size but they have different numbers on them so it says academic and then it has three bars the gpt5 one is pink it has two numbers it's 52.8 or 74.9 52.8 bar is higher than the bar next to it from open ai 03 which is 69.1 and that graph is the same size as gpt40 which the number is 30.8 so 52 is higher than 69 but 69 is the same as 30.8 yeah they also had another graph that was deceptiveness and it just said it it was rated a 50 what does that mean same what does that mean these ass don't understand scale yeah it was yeah and people called this out obviously and they were like sorry we made this like the night before the presentation and we were really tired and i'm like this makes no no sense i feel like if you had given this to chat gbt it would have done a better job no i think this was made by an ai no way yeah because they they don't understand scale graphing is like one of the first things we taught computers how to visualize no they are bad i've i've had a lot of trouble generating graphs uh with chat someone said vibe coded presentation lol it's it's worse it seems so they they're good at stuff like that like there was a few presentations ago where like it was sam and a few engineers around this table in their office talking about some release and it was like the worst sounding video i think i've ever seen on youtube like it was so shocking that this company worth seemingly infinite amounts of money didn't i remember that we were all listening to it like mic someone properly.

42:58Deception evals across models, which doesn't tell you at all what that means. There are two graphs. One is pink, one is clear. The pink one is much shorter and just says 50 at coding deception, whatever that means. And then there's one that's much taller that says 47.4. I was like, what is this? Have you guys used this model yet? I have not. I tried it, yeah. I tried it. yesterday i don't really it's whatever it like well i don't know if maybe this was already a thing in 4.0 but i used gbt5 with gemini and i was trying to figure out how to edit a google script that i have which like pulls numbers from youtube analytics api like all this stuff so i was like okay here's the script do this extra stuff for me and i assumed google gemini would be able to do it and it just completely the bed yeah which is like it's a google product and google Gemini couldn't figure it out but I put the same exact thing into ChatGBT and it just gave me the right answer so they're doing something right I don't know like how useful that is to anyone else but that's fair it helped me yesterday no it is surprising with Gemini you know they'll always make the announcements like Gemini can now do this and I'll be like awesome and then I'll be like do this and it's like I can't do that okay I don't know these things are nebulous how do you get on ChatGBT 5 it's automatically it's already 5.