YouTube Views Feel Fake Now

17:49David Imel:which is tough it is and it's youtube like i'm not going to sit here and try and defend youtube that hard but it is a a way that people can make money off of making a bunch of content on a place that uploads and stores massive massive massive amounts of data um yeah so like with so many more people coming on continually raising the requirements is something they probably have to do at a certain point yeah um because they're paying out sort of a pool of available ad revenue Especially in shorts. Like that is the pull. Yeah. And so bumping that was like, okay, this is so much harder now. This is literally twice as hard and it was pretty hard already.

18:28David Imel:Then when they did the view change, they announced this view change. People were like, oh, maybe this isn't that bad. Yeah. Because now views are going to be counted easier. Maybe not twice as much, but easier. But then within the blog post that they posted in Rene Richie's video explaining it is these requirements are based on engaged views. So essentially based on the old version of you. So actually nothing's changed except that it is all now doubled. This is also just going to be very confusing because the way that a lot of YouTubers get paid outside of YouTube is that they go to these brand partners and they say, here's all my metrics.

19:00You can see it publicly, but also I have YouTube Studio metrics that I can hand to you. Now there's going to be a discrepancy between what the brand sees publicly on YouTube.com and what the creator gives to them from creator studio. and what the creator gives to them is going to be way lower, which I'm a little worried will make the brands kind of be like, oh, we thought that you were getting this much, but you're actually getting this much. I'm not really sure I want to work with you now.

19:27David Imel:And I think part of that is, I mean, we've joked about it a million times on the podcast, but still in influencer marketing and brands and everyone feels like they just really don't understand the landscape of engagement. I mean, there's impressions, there's views, there's watch hours there's all these different things and so many of the subscribers so many of them are still like you have five million subscribers i can't tell that your videos are getting 10 000 views now because you haven't really been making a lot of content so like it's already confusing for them we're throwing another wrench in here now and i do think brand deals are gonna be hurt on this um part of that might be because a lot of creators might take advantage of this off the riff what if you had to take a guess what do you think the average view count percentage increase would be for like a standard popular video i don't think it's gonna be double but the more you pop up on the like six 40 to 60 i would guess like 20 to 40 percent increase at first of like what a view count if a person might get a million views i would not be surprised if like a 1.4 million view publicly is what might show up, whether that's just random autoplays when you're scrolling.

20:41David Imel:Like it feels weird to me that I might be reaching for a video on the right side of my homepage and I might accidentally give two views out with my mouse just hovering on the way over. Yeah. Like there's a lot of quote views to be put around here. And when they say this is what other people do, it's also in a weird other sense and I'm definitely rambling here, but like Twitter and Facebook did this because they're still scrolling chronological feeds that autoplay and they want to boost their videos so, so much because they want to look like YouTube. They want to compete with YouTube. They want to feel competitive with YouTube.

21:16Would you say that this is basically just an impression now? No. Like a view is an impression? No.

21:22David Imel:It's not yet because an impression still counts any time a thumbnail is served. Yeah. So if I were looking at the YouTube homepage right now, there might be 10 videos. All of those get one impression. three of those now might get a view because of a hovering autoplay or just a random autoplay. Because when you're like, I guess in mobile, you are still scrolling. Mobile has the best chance of giving random videos a ton of extra views. Yeah. But I still don't think full on impression yet. I think that number will still be higher. Yeah. Because of just serving a thumbnail and also serving a thumbnail on the right side recommended on browser.

21:57David Imel:None of those are going to really autoplay. But those are all still going to be an impression. One thing I was kind of thinking about was that generally when I get to near the end of a video, I sometimes will pause like one or two seconds before the video ends because I don't want another video to autoplay. But then occasionally I think about, well, I would like the creator to get a 100 % watch rate for me. So I just let it finish. But then it just starts playing another video. And so now like the amount of videos that just I watch a frame of but they have a view is kind of going to be messed up.

22:29I don't know. I think it makes sense for YouTube to want to show their superiority by changing the way that they count views to the same way everybody else is. But they just don't need to. It feels like a reaction to competition that didn't really exist. Yeah, I feel like it makes them seem not superior. I totally agree with you.

22:50David Imel:This feels like the scared move. I think before in the creator economy, and I'll admit us and the people listening to us see the creator economy way different than like most average people do just looking on youtube yeah but like every person and ever who makes content just considers a view on youtube to be exponentially more like worth it or profitable or what yeah valuable than any other view on any other platform i mean like you could possibly argue that a long-form youtube view is equal to like a thousand TikTok views, probably even higher than that. Yeah. And that was in itself, like every TikToker, every Instagram Reels person, every what they all want to be YouTubers because there's better money on YouTube and that all it's nothing to take away from them.

23:45David Imel:But like that is where the money seems to be. YouTube has figured out monetization the best. Yeah. Instagram hasn't even figured it out at all. um so i think by now being like oh we're gonna be about the same views it feels like you're i don't know yeah it feels scared i i get this whole we want to make it easier to understand and whatever but that feels like it's tech is so good at being like technically correct on things but very clearly like this is just a play to in their eyes have inflated view numbers yeah which I think is a bad thing. It's going to be interesting to see them do their earnings call.

24:26You know, it's part of Google, but I'm wondering if Google will go and say like, YouTube had a really great quarter. We, our views went up by this, or if they're going to explain how that works.

24:36David Imel:Yeah. Like, are they going to pitch to advertisers? Wow. We've seen a 30 % increase in views on videos and like, are they going to create their own, uh, what do we call Admageddon? What was the old one where like... Adpocalypse. Adpocalypse, sorry. Yeah. Are they going to create their own one where they're going to like pitch all these increased view counts and then like all these companies are going to be like yeah, I'm all in and then see the same exact thing and no increase and those companies aren't going to want to advertise as much? I don't know. I think overall there's just going to be kind of an evening out period where creators are like, hey, look at all these views that I'm getting and then the companies will be like, wow, that's awesome.

25:14They'll probably pay them more for a short period. But eventually that will normalize.

25:18David Imel:And one thing to clarify in here, August 24th, this launches. Any video posted after that will have the new view slash engage view metric. Any video posted before that will keep its original views and any views added on after the 24th will be the new metric. So that's gonna be a little confusing with those things, but you might see like spikes in videos that have been posted beforehand. What I think is a little funny right now is YouTube owned by Google. I mean, this is a very tech niche, funny part, but just launched the Pixel. Generally, our three biggest podcasts of the year are like Samsung launch, Pixel launch, Apple launch.

25:57David Imel:Pixel video did great. I think it was a one out of 10. And then they're gonna change these views and now we're gonna get the Apple thing out and Apple's gonna look like it's doubling and or tripling views because it usually does a little better already and now it's gonna get inflated views. so publicly the iPhone is going to look so much more popular than the Pixel at least to a waveform crowd. That's true. Which is kind of silly. I think we'll have to look back on this in like a year and see how things have changed. But overall, like, I do understand like the normalization taking place. Like that was going to happen eventually, just whether or not it happened when other companies caught up in some sense of the word or now.

26:41I guess I just needed to do it now.

26:42David Imel:I get it on shorts. That was actually something they needed to like compete again. But I just really don't think anyone's competing with YouTube in long form. So it just feels like its own thing. And this just feels like a pat ourselves on the back, pat our stats kind of. It's like smurfing. It just doesn't feel real. So views are going to be weird for a little bit. I mean, for brand deals and stuff, we'll look pretty sick for a little while until they figure it all out. So it might be beneficial for us. That is true. That is true. Otherwise, I just don't really get it. Okay, before we throw this to ad break, I just want us to react to this for a second.

27:17I had thrown this in Slack a little bit earlier this week. I put it in Slack again, so you can check it out now. The link to it. I don't buy Supreme stuff, but Supreme dropped its fall and winter 2026 preview, and there are so many products in here that I just never thought would get a Supreme collab. um the kodak super 8 film camera which i thought they only made like 5 000 of if not less because they cost like seven thousand dollars and it's not that much better than a regular super 8 camera there's a supreme version um there is a supreme version of the classic dyson uh the dyson one's sick not gonna lie yeah i mean it is kind of cool it's like see-through red and it's got like this

28:04David Imel:half the Supreme logo on it says super for some reason the Supreme Dyson will be in um every single LA apartment of an influencer who like just got popular on Instagram and bought an apartment that's way too big and is not furnished this will be in the side this is gonna be in a lot of those videos okay the one that I actually think is pretty sick is the analog pocket oh if you guys don't remember the analog pocket is like a Game Boy Color uh but it's made by the company analog which also is making an N64. They're pretty, there's a red one and there's a gold one. And they have like, everything is very metal.

28:43I just think they look kind of good. I don't know. Maybe I'm crazy.

28:46David Imel:I think my favorite is the Christmas version of Gremlins statue. Gremlins the movie. It's just the Gremlin in a Santa costume with a Supreme belt holding, what is the Gremlin called before it's a Gremlin? Is it still just a Gremlin? I think it's just a Gremlin, but non-Gremlins. The cute gremlin, the pre-food-after-midnight gremlin or pre-get-wet gremlin holding a candy cane in a Supreme bag. Well, I don't get Supreme. That's the most boomer thing I could have said out loud. Yeah. Probably, but there is some tech stuff. Yeah, there's also like the classic JBL speaker that you bring with you to like a beach party.

29:23David Imel:And the clip-on iPhone microphones. It's not like a Rode. It's not a Hollyland. These are the like very skinny ones that are like$13 and probably break after one use. Yeah, the funniest one for me, I think, is the Braun razor, which I have bought this razor probably eight times because I always leave them at hotels by accident. But it's just a big red Braun razor. Braun or Wall? Sorry, Wall. Yeah, Wall. It's the exact razor that I own. Yes. But it's supreme. Really funny and really ridiculous. And I didn't know they did stuff like this.

29:58Andrew Edwards:David and I were talking about this at the airport yesterday. I, you know, this podcast, like talking about random Supreme products, you know, tale as old as time. But do you guys remember, I think this was like when I was in high school or maybe college, the brick.

30:13David Imel:Yes. Yeah.

30:14Andrew Edwards:Supreme brick. Supreme brick. I think you said it best, Andrew. This is when you get your first like million view TikTok. You go straight to Supreme.com, baby.

30:23David Imel:It's like all the people who had like a couple of viral posts on social media and they're like, I'm going to buy a penthouse in L.A. LA this is stuff that half empty apartment gets filled with before they realize that

30:35Andrew Edwards:they're a viral clip when I was growing up in LA like they were you know it's like the odd future heyday and Supreme was sort of having it's like real moment and I had a bunch of friends that like you know would save up forever and we'd go to the Supreme store back when they had like a skate park in the Supreme store and it was this whole thing but I do remember the first time a friend bought like an object like that wasn't like a closer thing and it was the most intense feeling of like, and now what? Okay, you have this and you don't have$400. That's it, yeah. They have a Darth Maul skateboard.

31:13It's the very last one.

31:14David Imel:There's also a skateboard that just is like two German Shepherds. Strange. Strange. Also strange just to see such common tech products on here. But that's how it is. Alright. We gotta take a break. We have a very big section coming up with a lot of very interesting Apple news, so make sure you stay tuned for that. But first, we've got to do what we always do every single week. Nah, I'm just kidding. It's trivia! Marquez, please come back. I don't know why that trivia sounded not very enthusiastic. It's just the way you said it. I'm a little tired from the airplane. That's fair. Yeah, Ellis and I got off the airplane last night, so we're a little jealous.

31:56It's hardly a lie. We got off the airplane yesterday afternoon.

31:59Andrew Edwards:Yeah, I don't have an excuse for being this tired. I mean, you are jet lagged. It's fine. Yeah. Anyway, so because we talked about YouTube for so long, the first question is kind of not really about YouTube, it's sort of YouTube adjacent. But I found out something really interesting about a company called Connected Ventures, which is the company that founded College Humor, and I think still technically is like the parent company of Dropout. And for a while, I didn't know this. They had a really early investment from Barry Diller, like the old school Paramount executive turned QVC executive, just like an old school media tycoon type guy.

32:34Andrew Edwards:But I also found out that engineers who like developed a lot of the early video streaming stuff for College Humor and worked at Connected Ventures actually launched what other popular video streaming website that was sort of for a time the sister website of College Humor. What year? This would have been like... I don't know if I can tell you that. I guess you know what year. It's like 2005. Between 2004 and 2008, I'll give you that. Live leak.

33:07David Imel:So we're guessing a video platform or website 2004 to 2008. Yeah, somewhere in there. It's not College Humor. It's not E-Bom's World.

33:18Andrew Edwards:Were there videos? I thought that was all Flash. It was a little bit before my time. All right, well, answers will be the end like usual. We'll be back.

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36:09All right, welcome back. The Apple event is in like three or four weeks, but we already got our first look at the camera, quote unquote, AirPods that we've been talking about for a while now.

36:20David Imel:I like this because you said official leak and arguably it couldn't be more official. It could not be more official. Because Apple leaked it. Apple leaked it. so um awesome this is like exciting we don't get this very often never happened someone at apple is getting more than fired let me just say that yeah but like everything on twitter was most of the things i saw about it weren't even about the airpods it's just like yeah this is fun again like this feels like yeah 10 years ago where we got like random leaks of things and we were all excited and the cool thing too is it's not like a like a random leak where we didn't know where it came from right like when leaks happen from google they feel very planned you know it's like oh it leaked oh we gave this to a leaker but when you find things in the system files that's when it's very fun so in the mac os tahoe release candidate 26.7 which is uh funny because it's not golden gate it's actually an older version of mac os that is a release candidate there was a video file that was demonstrating the new airpods with visual intelligence now the video did not seem color graded or like done at all it might have even been like a test video I'm not sure.

37:25It also seemed very green skewed, like not a polished video like we're used to seeing from Apple. If I remember the audio felt really, can I play it real fast? Yeah, sure. You can play it. With visual intelligence, your world becomes savable. See something you like? Just ask me to save it for later.

37:41David Imel:Doesn't that feel like very... It feels robotic. It feels like placeholder. Yeah, it feels kind of placeholder. So what's happening in this video is there is a man who picks up a book and he has these longer stemmed AirPods Pro. They kind of look like AirPods Pro, but their stem is almost the length of the original AirPods. The electric toothbrush. The electric toothbrush top. And they look a little bit silly. I mean, I think every new version of AirPods looks a little bit silly until it eventually gets normalized. But he picks up a book and basically based on this voiceover, it just says, just save it for later.

38:15So what we assume is happening is the AirPods are sensing the book. They're sensing the text, whether or not that's through an infrared camera or through a regular camera. We're not sure. I really do not think that Apple is going to put standard cameras in these AirPods where you can just take photos of your world because they are the privacy company. It would piss a lot of people off. They're going to have to do a significant amount of public relations and marketing to make people feel better about these things if they even possibly can. Because whether or not it is an infrared camera, it is still a camera.

38:48David Imel:And Meta's out here just really screwing up public perception of cameras everywhere. Yeah. Wait, but if you can look at a book and tell it to save it to later, that's not infrared, is it? Infrared can still detect text like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No.

39:03Andrew Edwards:Yeah. No. Yeah. I don't know. No. That'd be a good sound clip. I don't know. We really, we just don't know enough about these yet. But a regular camera, I think, would be a huge mistake from Apple.

39:18David Imel:I'm looking at an infrared camera looking at like an AC unit outside and it can read the text on the thing. Yeah. So that is the depth of my knowledge of infrared cameras. One Google search. In my opinion, this would be the best bet for Apple. But yet again, they're going to have to make people feel OK with that. They have to call it a camera no matter what. Yes. Which is tough. Which is. Will they? Well, they'll call it a sensor. Yeah. They'll call it an infrared sensor. Technically, a camera is a sensor. A sensor is a camera. but I think they're also going to have to do a lot of work to just say these are just for visual intelligence.

39:53You can't ask it to take a photo. You can't ask it to do this. Either way, I don't know. Having these in your ears is kind of tough. Now, I can see why Apple wants the future of their AI products to just be their existing products, right? AirPods and the Apple Watch are pretty much the best quote-unquote AI device you could have because you're already wearing them. The best way to integrate new technology into people's lives is to put it in existing things that they use every day. And a lot of people use AirPods all the time. Also, allegedly, if hair is covering the AirPods, you will receive an alert that asks you to make sure that they're not covered because, you know, if you have long hair or -

40:32David Imel:Presumably only when you ask it the question. When you ask it the question. Okay, okay. Yeah. Because it would be very annoying. Yes. What is this for? Well, luckily we have none of the answers and only speculation, so - Well, like, what would you use it for, I mean? Like, I have Google Lens on my phone and I barely use that. And sure, when I use it, it's super useful and cool. And it's like, whoa, that's a thing I can do. But do I need this on my headphones? Yeah, so you can now lean down to that dog that that person's walking, not ask them the question and say, what kind of dog is this? That was a callback to a previous.

41:03David Imel:What kind of dog is that? Yeah. I don't know. There's things that could, I get the idea of like, save this for later. Or like, the fact that he's looking at a book in his house and saying, let me look at this later is kind of weird. but if you're at like a library or a coffee shop that has books it's like oh add this to my list of something i want to get later or like i could see that being a thing i'm not trying like i don't think i would ever use it i kind of think these are silly and i cannot imagine the price tag on these um i can only assume a significant price increase with this feels like a bit like a solution in search of a problem.

41:43David Imel:Or like a shareholder tactic of like this looks good for AI and we're incorporating it into other products of our things. That's everything though. I just feel like this isn't, like to David's point, this isn't a user behavior thing. Like as a person walking through a library, if I see a book I like, I take a picture of it. And it would be more useful for the Photos app to then know that I took a picture of the thing, pull the image, be like, hey, there's this thing, blah, blah, blah. when I ask it what book did I see last Tuesday. But like, do I need that in my headphones? I don't, I feel like that's overkill.

42:16Yeah, the question also becomes, do you have to explicitly ask it to sense the world around you or is it constantly developing context? That's the other question. Which would mean constantly recording.

42:27David Imel:And Apple would be like, but audio as well, yeah. Because it would need to know, like when you say require context, my guess would be like, Like if I'm having a conversation with you and something I say is like, I really like that watch. Like, is it going to be like, oh, it likes this watch. I see watch. Do I record that context? I was thinking more of like, where did I leave my keys? Which is still constantly recording. Yeah. To be able to know where that is. Apple would probably make some talk. I would probably say something like, oh, we take frame data every 10 seconds, but we're not really storing it anywhere.

43:05No, we're just sending it to a. We're encrypting in Kenya. Yeah, I don't know. We're there watching it. There's so many questions.

43:11David Imel:It would be funny if it just went, you should really have an AirTag on your keys. Yeah, this reminds me a lot of the Sony LinkBuds, and their whole pitch was like, keep your headphones in all the time, and you don't have to take them out because they've got a hole in the center of them. The original LinkBuds, remember? And they just wanted you to keep your earphones, wireless headphones earbuds wireless earbuds they want you to keep your earbuds in all day and it feels like Apple also kind of just wants you to keep them in all day yeah I to Adam's point of like is this something a user would do is it safe to say now that a lot of tech companies in order to try and get ahead is they're taking so many risks on not what the user's currently doing but it's our job to tell the user what they should be doing and we want to that's how we get the forefront of things I feel like Apple has done that a lot I'm going to tell you how to use this.

44:05David Imel:You're going to then see that I'm telling you how to use it. I'm going to think that's a cool way of using it and maybe spend an extra$100 on a thing that I already own. Yeah. Unfortunately, but... Apple does have a history of being able to tell users what they want, but whether or not this is a hit is going to be a long shot. Yeah. The cameras on things are going to be the, I think, the tough thing. It's just the wrong time, guys. It's not the right time. What's funny is just going all the way back to us saying this video, might not be fully finished is somebody posted what the um where it's located in the build and the mp4 file is called b790 save for later which really makes it feel like a placeholder thing like almost everything about this feels like a really well shot placeholder but yeah nowhere near apple quality yeah of the vid i mean the the background's blown out and we would normally never see that um you know but it is august september is right around the corner at least the design of the headphones and the structure of the headphones is probably set in place by now yeah it's fun because we haven't had like an apple leak from apple themselves and that part's really fun it's dystopian that it's earpods with cameras yeah earbuds airpods with cameras i think what's going to happen here is that people are going to get very angry um rightfully because i don't think anyone wants more cameras that are constantly recording them when they don't know about it and then it's an apple product so it's people are going to buy a lot of them and there's going to to be a normalization period where this does eventually normalize i don't love that yeah i do think i am not i'm i do not like defending apple here like because of the fact that this presumably will not have a i can record the like i can be a creep record on it yeah at least then publicly it might be a little more uh normalized to wear into a private establishment like that's not quite as bad you still as a person should be worried about apple themselves yeah tracking what you're doing and or saying um but it doesn't seem to have creep capabilities on it yet creepability i will not take that away from them at some point yeah and hopefully these don't get hacked um which they probably will okay uh in this release candidate we actually also got a bunch of other references to other unreleased products uh including one of apple's new home hub products both the one that goes on the wall and the one that goes on the table listed as j490 and j491 there's allegedly a new apple security camera that we've talked about before the pebble home os operating system um it's probably just gonna be called home os but the it's called pebble internally the airpods with cameras new beats headphones airpods pro 4 which it's interesting that they're being listed separately from these uh people were calling the ones with the camera airpods ultra which i just ultra is just the general name people say when it's an unannounced like yeah i think that's hard with airpods max because it makes it feel bigger than airpods max which nothing is bigger than airpods max except for maybe the headphones ellis is wearing right now but yeah it would be weird to go airpods pro then airpods max are over ear then airpods ultra are earbuds again yeah yeah uh there were references to the iphone air 2 the iPhone 18 series including the foldable new MacBook Pros, new iMacs new iPads, a new Vision Pro was also listed in there could have been a placeholder or like a chip update maybe or it could have been while they were working on the cheaper one but then they scrapped, I don't know, whatever's happened in there and then new Apple TV so that should be interesting that's a lot of products that they're allegedly working on and it's interesting that they're all in the release candidate which means we are probably going to get a lot of products this year if not this year and then into spring.

47:52David Imel:Yeah, I mean, it is like notoriously iPhone, what is it, like iPhone AirPods watch will probably be September event. And then they like to do some Mac stuff in like November. They do Mac stuff in October, November, and then do like iPad and back to school stuff. And then the E series in the spring. Yeah, and then spring. There are actually a lot of Apple events through the year now. We don't think about that. We used to think about the fact that used to be like one big Apple event in September. Now they're pretty spaced out. But that leads us into our next little story here, because the standard iPhone 18 might not launch until next spring.

48:27So there are now, there's a new report that is claiming that the iPhone 18 standard edition is going to launch in March of next year. This report comes from, it came from Min Chi Kuo before, but Pegatron, as we've talked about various times on this podcast, an Apple supplier held an annual earnings call and indicated that one of its customers would be changing its usual smartphone shipment schedule. And when you have to tell your investors during an earnings call that your shipments are going to go down significantly for this quarter, you kind of know it's Apple. Yeah, it's the clicks communicator.

49:04Wow, that's a dig. You clearly know that that's Apple. So that makes it seem like Apple is going to be pushing the standard 18. And I have maybe a hot take. I actually think it makes sense from the company's perspective to launch the standard models later because they've been launching like the E gets launched later, right? But if you launch the pros first and you give it, I don't know, five or six months before the standard models launch, that would entice a lot more people who might have just gotten the standard one to get a pro because they want the new thing. and the thing is the standard editions of all of these phones are getting better and better and better to the point where why should you get the Pro is becoming a very common question.

49:49David Imel:I agree with your hot take as a capitalist. Yes, I'm saying from Apple's perspective I'm not saying I'm a capitalist. Strike it from the record. I'm saying to make as much money as possible you are entirely correct. That's what I'm saying. From Apple's perspective I feel like it makes sense to be like, if you want our new stuff, it's only the pros. And in six months, you can buy the cheaper one. And for that entire six months, you'll be on our website looking at them, dreaming of them, realizing that it's just a couple hundred more bucks. Just a couple smackers. Press buy. The best way to get people to buy stuff is to constantly be back on the website and add it to the cart and then forget and then think about it.

50:34David Imel:And then come back and then think about it.

50:36Andrew Edwards:This also lets the colors of the standard iPhone be the big story when they come out. It's not like some new feature that is on the Pro. The Pro gets all the features and then you get to be like, ooh, pine cone or whatever they're going to do.

50:49David Imel:I have a, I don't think it's a hot take, but an irrelevant take possibly. If this happens, Google is pumped because last year we kept comparing them to the base iPhone with the base storage issue. they did a price increase this year their best shot to be like guys see it wasn't that bad was the new iPhone base to release with a price increase as well at the same storage and they could be like see now they have to live potentially for like six more months of being like this is a deal so I think even though the standard pixel is$8.99 this year if there is no matched iPhone and the cheapest iPhone comes in at like$1 ,100 or$1 ,200, the Pixel is actually still going to look like a good deal.

51:41Everything's expensive.

51:42David Imel:Everything is expensive. I do, I hate that it makes sense to launch it with the E. I always have said, I think, I get really confused with Pixel and A series where it's like the Pixel 9 comes out and then the Pixel 9A comes out later and the average person comes to me and says, should I get the new Pixel? What new? The Pixel A, it's like, no it's worse than the one that just like it's worse than the one you have yeah like yeah this is confusing that's true if anything the cheaper stuff should come out first so every time it is new it is better but by doing this especially by naming them the same numbers the new thing winds up actually being technically worse yeah and i think that's a weird confusing way of doing it yeah and some of the apple users might be to the point where they just say new iphone and literally buy a worse phone later on.

52:30This is true. Which is bad. Yeah. Allegedly, the iPhone Air 2 is also going to launch alongside the standard 18. That is weird to me. Yeah. Well, they sort of positioned the Air as like alongside the standard iPhone as like, oh, you want the standard, but you want the thinner standard one.

52:48David Imel:And it went more expensive. Yeah. But yeah, yeah, more expensive, but it's also like way more premium, you know. I know. That's why I think it makes more sense if they were going to switch regular to the e-release in the spring it makes it feel like september event is like best in class shiniest coolest which i guess iphone air 2 is probably just going to be updated iphone air that we've seen already so it's not that jaw dropping anymore yeah um so if we just so what we think we're going to see pro pro max ultra which presumably is the foldable airpods with spy cameras and then new watch yeah i mean we should be getting a new apple watch um there's so much stuff there's so much stuff yeah it's gonna be a lot of stuff this year um it is strange though because yeah the iphone air 2 is like the iphone air is just generally one of the most premium iphones i think that because the 17 was the tick of the tiktok cycle and it kind of changed the way the iphone looks a little bit and the 17 Pro is one of the best-selling iPhones in a very, very long time, they are very worried about people actually wanting to upgrade to an 18 because it's not gonna look that different.

53:58And so I think if they isolate the 18 alongside there's the 18 and then there's the Fold, which costs like$2 ,300, I think the 18 Pro starts looking like a pretty good upgrade for some people.

54:10David Imel:I think, I don't remember exactly, I think it was Mark Gurman posted a picture of a case from OtterBox. And on it, it said compatible with iPhone 17 Pro and iPhone 18 Pro. So like he, either they made a mistake or they think it is so similar that it would fit in the same case. Yeah, I would not be surprised. I don't think anything is going to significantly change on those phones. Yeah, I would agree with you on that. I think the rumor is that there's going to be a variable aperture on one of the cameras, but maybe it's not thicker because of that. Yeah, it's already got the giant camera bar, the plateau on it.

54:46David Imel:The plateau.

54:47Andrew Edwards:Yeah, the plateau. I'm so sorry to interrupt. David, a little bit ago you used a term that is such deep intel ball knowledge. Like I had never heard it before. Can you explain what the TikTok model is? I literally had to Google it to know what you're talking about. Yeah, so the TikTok model of technology is usually that you release like a very big kind of foundational update one year. and then the next year, instead of changing the design, doing something like that, you basically release the same design but with incremental upgrades. Like the S series iPhones. Yeah, exactly. Apple used to do the iPhone 7 and then 7S or like 4 and then 4S.

55:32And so the second year would always just be like, oh, we added this incremental feature. But now they don't do that anymore.

55:39Andrew Edwards:Wikipedia says that it actually comes from Intel. What they would do is they would shrink a die size and use an old microarchitecture. And then they would improve the microarchitecture on that shrunken die size. Then they would shrink the die size with the old micro. Like they would alternate whether they were improving the die. Yes, yes. I was going to use that as an example, but I think people are tired of hearing me say that I used to work at Intel. Wait, did you actually work at Intel? David, what was your first job?

56:06David Imel:Can I give some context to potentially our younger viewers as to why it's called the TikTok? Because you have to dance. Because it has nothing to do with the app. In fact, clocks before they were on our phones. Tick tock. Tick tock. That's the noise they made. This feels like how I'm going to have to describe the save button. When I used to use calculators, we had this thing called the TI-84. I'm just kidding. What do you mean used to? We still got that. And it's probably still$140. It is. For sure it is. Or whatever it used to be. Yeah. So yeah, it was architecture and then improvement, architecture improvement.

56:49Andrew Edwards:Sorry about that tangent. No, no, no. You said the TikTok process. And I was like, the what? That's fair. That's a fair question. Anyway, yeah, we'll have to see what that happens. It's coming up really quick, guys. We're ramping right into, you know, we're into Tep-Tember. It's Tectember here. I'm going to make a bet. bet.

57:08David Imel:This is my prediction. Okay. Do you know how they do pre-filmed videos for Apple events? Yeah. Shot on AirPods Ultra?

57:20Andrew Edwards:That would be crazy. It's all in infrared. Every now and then my hair gets in the frame. It's all in infrared so you can just see heat and that's it. Dude, picture the shot of an AirPod falling out of someone's ear just like, ah! No, not funny. Oh, you mean from the camera?

57:36David Imel:Wait, would that actually be part of the feature though? It's like, oh, I lost my AirPod. It's here. It looks like it's in your couch cushion. You can get a live stream of where it is. That'd be funny. No, I highly doubt that. Anyway, yeah, we only got a couple of weeks until the Apple events. Make sure you stay tuned for that. Until then, we got to do our trivia. Trivia, dude. So I had a separate question, but after this conversation, I'm doing a different one. Texas Instruments the maker of the TI calculators they had HQ'd in what city? Texas City Instrument City Texas Instrument City We do have in LA there's what is it called Ellis?

58:26Transportation City? Industry City Industry City No that's the city of industry that's different No, I think you have it backwards.

58:34Andrew Edwards:I'm pretty sure in LA it's the city of industry. Oh. Okay. Well, we'll find out after the break. Actually, at the end of the show. Yeah.

58:52Support for the show comes from Google Gemini. You know that moment when curiosity strikes? You're exploring a new city with a family and a sculpture catches your daughter's eye. What is that? Who made it? With Gemini, you can snap a picture and get a fully interactive breakdown of its history, architecture, and even hidden secrets. Gemini is built for moments like that. Whether you're learning something new, solving a problem, or looking for your next favorite thing, Google Gemini is here to help. Download Gemini, Google's AI app, or visit gemini.google.com to learn more.

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1:00:35David Imel:All right, welcome back. Ellis. Yeah. A new trackball just dropped, and I think you're going to like this. I think it just rolled. Probably. It's a ball. You're right. I also know almost nothing about this except for the article I found and then the website I read, and I am basically all in on this company without knowing anything about them. But I'm not a trackball person. But after the Keychron nape we looked at the other day, I was like, this thing's pretty sweet. And I now kind of want to try one. Partially because of how cool they look. I know that's not the real reason we should be liking these.

1:01:07David Imel:But they look pretty sick. And let's be real, half of the reason of a desk setup is just so it looks cool. Not so it's actually productivity focused. So this is the A Plus from a company called, I believe it's pronounced, Bloopy. which is i mean it just gets better as it goes i already love these people but um so this is the first time i heard of them i did a quick look over their website to see what they're about they're from canada it's two guys they started in 2019 i believe one of them kind of focuses on the hardware one of them kind of focuses on the software and in and out they are open source everything about them is open from the design files most of these things are 3d printed to all of the software it seems like you can essentially do whatever you want with these products which is really cool um they make a ton of different computer peripherals knobs track pads they have a mouse that is essentially four buttons and the little red knob from think pads like in the middle to use as your pointer which is kind of awesome that's amazing and this is a new updated trackball they have called the a plus they used to have something called the Adept, which is a six button trackball, kind of in like a squircle shape.

1:02:19David Imel:And this is essentially the update version of that because of how many modifications and notes people had on the previous version because they're open source. People just created all these different things for it and they decided to update it. So the previous version had six buttons. This is adding two more and those two new buttons, which are circular towards the bottom of the ball, are knobs as well that can do by default high resolution horizontal and vertical scrolling but can be reprogrammed the modding community had designed a wrist rest for the previous adept so now there's a detachable and attachable or permanently attachable wrist rest for the new a plus for keyboard enthusiasts this uses qmk for programming but is also configurable with via via i never know how to pronounce it which is awesome a couple new features they added um gestures so holding down a button and flicking the trackball in eight different directions can all be programmable to a different feature some of them they do are like media controls desktop changing like swipes um cut copy paste they have layers which is awesome one of them is just to kind of access the hardware device configuration so left-hand mode dpi led brightness whether you want high-res scrolling or step scrolling on the knobs it's also 99 cad or 70 like usd which is super reasonable pre-ordering started today actually look at the website to see um but yeah i've never used any of these products and i know i went through that really fast but these come in a bunch of really sick colors like the one i'm looking at there's a a yellow one with a blue ball there's a white one with a blue there's red and black on marquez now they look amazing they're 3d printed so it's very obviously the finish is like 3d print-esque but from afar i think they look great everything looks really ergonomical like i think this makes me want to use a track ball i think it looks so sick it almost makes me want to buy four different ones to match the different keyboard colors that i have um but i just love even though i haven't used them having the chance to highlight a not giant company but rather what feels like a passion product yeah community driven passion product yeah that's promising to keep things open source 100 of the time that's awesome um so this looks awesome i'm probably going to order i might order one too

1:04:49Andrew Edwards:these look amazing i wish they would let you 3d print i couldn't find anywhere to get the files No, you can have the design files.

1:04:55David Imel:This just didn't come out yet.

1:04:57Andrew Edwards:Oh, but I could like buy a board by itself.

1:05:00David Imel:Oh, I don't know about that. That's what I want. I think you buy it, but then all the design files are available. So I guess if you wanted to print in different colors, but I think they really are focusing on people making their own modifications and letting that be open because they have all these different things of like, obviously this is like a smaller company, but they have their soldering guides to see how things are done on here. and a modders guy or a mods index. There's all this stuff on here, presumably by the community, which they also have a Discord and a subreddit for people who do all the stuff to these products.

1:05:37David Imel:And this is the kind of tinkering I'm fully here for. Yeah, they also have these backlight modes. They have a big backlight that can make the ball glow, which is awesome. And then they have just the backlights of the buttons. And I guess you can switch between them. so it's context clues to help you understand what mode you're in. So if the trackball itself is glowing, you're in one mode. If just the buttons in the backlight are glowing, if they glow a different color, this is something that you would only get from a community open source project and I really, really appreciate this. This plus Opus and or Fable 5,

1:06:11Andrew Edwards:it's going to be so much fun to have at your desk. No, I'm serious. No, I know you're serious. They've got a bunch of other cool products.

1:06:20David Imel:I feel like I could just imagine walking into the audio room. They do. They have headphones. They did that are 3D printed and open source. And I don't know what on earth you would do with them. But that's cool.

1:06:34Andrew Edwards:Right now at home, my left hand macro is a the Logitech MX creative thing. And I have the big knob as a jog wheel for going between frames and Pro Tools. and then I use the vertical scroller as a bunch of different things. Like sometimes it's vertical zoom so I can do both at the same time, but the Logitech software is kind of slow and doesn't really work there with Pro Tools. And so I prefer to use my MX master switches as my zoom in Pro Tools. But with this, I'm having the dream of like being able to use the jog wheel as both vertical and horizontal zoom and then hit a button with my pinky and have that turn into scrubbing frames.

1:07:15Andrew Edwards:That would be freaking awesome.

1:07:18David Imel:It seems like there's a lot to do, and QMK is, like, wildly accessible. Or not accessible. No, it is not accessible. It is fairly confusing, but there's a lot of stuff you can do in it.

1:07:29Andrew Edwards:I have a macro project I'm working on. This white one looks awesome. That maybe I could talk about a little bit. Do it. Because I flew through that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I wish I had more to say about this, but I...

1:07:39David Imel:I could just see 10 of these in the audio room.

1:07:42Andrew Edwards:Yeah, I could tell you all about all the things I would want to do with it. I just don't think it'd be very interesting, you know, but I'm stoked. That's the answer. I want this. I'm going to probably obtain this because as much as I love the MX Master as my left-hand macro, I think I'm ready for a new left-hand because my right-hand macro at home just changed. Are you familiar with Bitfocus Companion? No. Bitfocus Companion is sick. It's open source stream deck firmware that also works on pretty much anything that has buttons with screens on it um and there's a community of people that build integrations into software that are really tight and it's really it's used all the way at like some of the highest levels of production and broadcast like if you go into like nfl broadcast rooms you will see a million dollars worth of broadcast gear being run by a stream deck because it has companion on it just think of it as like the dopest way to use a stream deck if you're not doing very professional workflows i i wouldn't recommend it like it's not it would be way more difficult i think to like make a stream deck adjust the volume on your computer for example but if you're using like something like resolume arena where you're like triggering clips for a jumbotron or something uh like it will automatically like bring the thumbnails of the clips into wherever that clips play button is on the street.

1:09:13Andrew Edwards:Like there's lots of just like life things that just make it so easy. Anyway, a bunch of years ago, I sort of borrowed, let's say, a Huawei MatePad Pro that was lying around the office that like it was essentially useless to us because you can't put any Google apps on it, which means you can't have the Play Store on it, which means the only app store that I was able, I guess now actually that's side loading and other app stores are there. I couldn't even get other app stores on it because the Huawei firmware really hates side. this thing is useless that's like what i'm trying to get at is like unless you're like so bought into the huawei ecosystem and also speak chinese there's just like not a lot that's like super awesome about this thing so it ended up uh sitting in a closet at my house for a long time um but the web browser works and i figured out with bitfocus companion you can emulate the buttons on a stream deck in a web browser and then have it still go to your computer so i 3d printed like a stand that sits the the it's like a full-sized landscape tablet so it sits at probably like a 20 degree angle on my desk and it's an 8 by 11 button stream deck now on my desk i have 88 freaking bit focus stream deck buttons on a touch screen right above my keyboard and it is bliss i every single time i'm like oh i did that twice it gets a button it's just it's just incredible and so I've set it up so like every application has its own 88 button page too so I'll like turn on my computer and it loads to the homepage of the stream deck and then I go oh I'm doing Pro Tools today, hit the Pro Tools button I'm doing Arena today, hit the Arena button hit the Touch Designer button it is just so fun.

1:10:55David Imel:I'm imagining you as like the organ player with just like keyboards all around you except that 99 % of the time when you're using the computer you're just like hunched over with like just your trackpad like click no i don't use a trackpad at home use a

1:11:10Andrew Edwards:mouse yeah at home at work i'm a trackpad guy at home i'm a mouse guy i can't tell you why it's just that's that's the way i do it that's i'm i'm freaky like that i like that it's context switching yeah yeah yeah at home i'm an mx master person at work i'm a magic trackpad person everywhere like there's a magic trackpad here and at my edit desk i think i just like to make you guys think I'm weird and cool. It works. Don't worry. It's working. If anyone needs a 3D file for a stand for a Huawei MatePad Pro, hit me up. I'll send it to you. And yeah, if you have the chance to have more than 80 buttons on a stream deck, do it because it is really fun.

1:11:56Andrew Edwards:Yeah. And that's my macro talk. We like it. We like it. for those that are wondering the Pixels they just drop officially we're not going to talk about them this week because Marques is out in Ireland being hot like we said and I think that we all want to have a little round table discussion about them so that'll come next week but don't worry we do have them what's that color called again that you're holding it's like pistachio or is that the regular one no the regular 11 green is pistachio it's like It's not an olive. I think this is olive. Someone get an olive. Wait, let me.

1:12:34David Imel:This was the, I just remember reading through the rumors and there were so many different color potential names. I think it's either pine or olive. Olive. Yeah, olive. It's not quite olive. But anyway, we'll talk about that next week. So make sure. Yeah. If the RGB could be more than five colors. Yeah. That's a whole thing. It's a whole rabbit hole we're going to get into.

1:12:55Andrew Edwards:I can't wait until we find out how that actually works and like what happens. It doesn't. It doesn't work. So, all right. Well, I think that's it for story this week, but we're going to get into trivia. Answers. No.

1:13:16Andrew Edwards:Guys, while College Humor was in its early days, some developers who worked at its parent company developed what video hosting site?

1:13:37Andrew Edwards:College humor College humor was so much fun back in the day

1:13:45David Imel:I'm like I'm just throwing a random video site out there from that era

1:13:53Andrew Edwards:Alright guys, two answers Whoa everyone over 30 listening right now is about to be like whoa and the answer is such a letdown alright what do you guys got I put funny or die

1:14:06David Imel:that was actually way better I put albino black sheep I'm not even 30 and I'm whoaing I'm 31

1:14:17David Imel:was that where the badger song started

1:14:20Andrew Edwards:I don't remember that one

1:14:21David Imel:badger badger badger badger badger badger badger sorry not 30 Badger, badger, badger, mushroom, mushroom. What just happened?

1:14:30Andrew Edwards:Thank you, David, for not making me look insane. At least one person is driving right now. Homestar Runner? No. You guys are having too much fun. So much stuff that we found so funny when we were like 12 is just really not funny. The correct answer is Vimeo.

1:14:47David Imel:Oh. Wait, but you said it only was around from 2004 to 2008.

1:14:52Andrew Edwards:No, no, no. I didn't say that. I said I didn't want to tell you what year this actually was so I just gave you a general range. The year was 2006. But I thought 2006 would give it away. So I didn't give it away. Did I ruin the question?

1:15:05David Imel:I was not getting it anyways.

1:15:07Andrew Edwards:You don't know what Vimeo is? Hey, breaking news. Professional YouTuber never heard of Vimeo.

1:15:12David Imel:Albino Black Sheep is still around. Really? Looks like it's going to give me a virus.

1:15:17Andrew Edwards:For everyone that's been complaining for the past few episodes we're back on one mic. all is right in the world wait you had multiple mics before? two episodes in a row Adam and I had separate mics and people were livid people were like this is so wrong anyway while while Adam gives you an update on the score and reads his trivia question I'm gonna go find someone in the office to play for Marquez just for this question? for both questions for this week quick update on the score Marquez with one Andrew with three David with three Question number two Texas Instruments HQ Where is it? Where is it?

1:16:09Where is the library? I actually got good at Spanish while we were in Spain Did you? Prove it. Donde esta la biblioteca? I was looking for the library, and I found it.

1:16:27Andrew Edwards:And did your Spanish work? Because you were in Portugal. No, I went to Spain too. I was in Spain as well. Flipperman Reed, what do you got?

1:16:37David Imel:I just picked... I don't know if this is an obscure, but I was like, I picked Plano. I've never even heard of that, but no. That is not it. It's Dallas. The people of Plano. Yeah, I hear you. I was like, what are the obvious ones? I don't think it's going to be one of those. I wrote Dallas. Dallas it is. Dallas was like... The obvious one. Well, either that or Austin. But Dallas in the 80s was like... Yeah, Houston, yeah. Dallas was like where a lot of the computer revolution happened. Oh, okay. Yeah. It just felt like, obviously, Texas. Dallas felt like the most obvious, so I thought he was screwing with us.

1:17:12David Imel:So then I went even more obscure. Oh. I just read something. What? Yeah, Rich knows the answer now.

1:17:20Andrew Edwards:All right. Okay, well, he can still do my question. All right. Yay. Everyone, give it up for Rich.

1:17:28David Imel:Rich is just quietly sitting there like.

1:17:31Andrew Edwards:Oh. Is that open source? Can we use that? Yeah. You think I'd play copyrighted music on this podcast? I don't know, but I've heard that so many times. Yeah. But I guess this was from you. Yeah, it's from me. I always know. Okay, Rich. Hello. Hello. The only question we have for you because I messed this up really bad. You know what College Humor is?

1:17:54David Imel:I've heard of them.

1:17:55Andrew Edwards:I've heard of them. Uh-oh. Okay, great. College Humor's parent company had some developers working for it that also started a very, very popular video hosting and sharing platform. Do you know what that platform is?

1:18:13Is it?

1:18:14David Imel:Wait, do I say it out loud? Yeah. Is it...

1:18:21David Imel:Dropout?

1:18:23Andrew Edwards:No. Sorry, it is not Dropout. The answer is... Vimeo! Dropout is like very new. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:18:32David Imel:I definitely did not know that. I'm not sure if Marquez would know that.

1:18:35Andrew Edwards:That's okay, he's not getting the point. Sorry, Marquez.

1:18:38David Imel:I'm interested. We should still ask him, but not give him the point if he gets it right. All right. What a podcast this is.

1:18:53Andrew Edwards:Thank you very much. This has been waiting for, baby. We'll be back next week with everything you ever wanted to know about anything. Marquez will be back. We'll have a great time. Join us. If you will, subscribe. If you want to, hit the bell. Like your life depends on it. I've been Marquez he's been Andrew and I've been David that's been Ellis are we actually going to use this? I thought we were that's up to Adam anyone else have any other fun stories this week or should we

1:19:34David Imel:we're gearing up for a sick Apple event smartphone season kind of started already and it about to hit and go watch the Eclipse podcast if you haven't already I can't believe you're still here and you haven't watched it.

1:19:46Andrew Edwards:I have a correction from the Eclipse pod. From actually both of the last two pods. One of them is not really a correction. One of them is like, I am so sorry for not knowing about what title locking was. I make podcasts. Like, I don't know everything about space and the moon and stuff. I'm not Marquez. You knew what it was. No, I didn't. I was like, that's crazy that it's like that. And everyone's like, it's like that. It's because of this thing called title locking. And I was like, oh.

1:20:12David Imel:it was like i think marquez said because it happens to rotate the same at the same speed as yeah orbiting that's why it's always facing it but it's well no i knew that part but i wasn't

1:20:24Andrew Edwards:sure if they they were that those speeds were the same just by chance or by something and it's not by chance it's because of something that i to be honest i still don't quite tide lock it's that button in the top right part of your keyboard but then the other thing that's way more important is in the hotel room episode, when I was introducing the question in Spanish, I said, estabas atento, which does mean, were you paying attention? But it's more like the specific you, like, were you, Andrew, paying attention? Where I should have said, estabas. Oh, in Spain, it's vosotros. Actually? No, that's not vosotros.

1:20:57Andrew Edwards:You made me think about that for a sec. But I believe it should have been estabas, which is like the general you, were you guys. I think it's time to drive into the sunset, fellas. Do you hear the music?

1:21:09David Imel:This is what happens. Thanks for joining us. Marquez will be back next week. Dad will be home. Dad's coming home. We'll miss you. Go watch the Eclipse podcast. And actually, go watch the Eclipse studio video, which is also really good. I made Grindr really hard to get that out in time. That's true. We're back in Jersey, though. We're ready to rock. Yeah. There we are. Yeah. Spain was the second most beautiful place I've ever been. Carney number one. And we'll see you next week. Adios. Good night. All right, let's go get McDonald's.

1:21:40Andrew Edwards:No, no, no, no, Adam, no. We don't eat that much McDonald's. Wayform is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Rovin. We are part of the Vox Media Podcast Network, and our intro outro music is produced by... Vane Sill. And now you can start the outro music. Bingo!

1:22:08David Imel:After a few more years, you should have enough soundboard clips where even when Marquez isn't here, you can just be part of the conversation.

1:22:16Andrew Edwards:You can just be like, I'm one of those talking dogs with the buttons.

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