Amy Winehouse & Me: Blake Fielder Finally Tells His Story

39:28Our love had nothing to do with addiction, and addiction had nothing to do with our love. That's where it went. It wasn't who we were in that. I'm with you. And that's why this, for me, and I won't even, I know it's, you know, it's interesting. I didn't realize how heavy looking at some of these images would be for you. But now hearing what you're saying, especially because you haven't looked at these in quite some time. For me, this embodied, I think, the love that you two had, you know. Bit cheeky, bit silly. Bit silly, cheeky. Yeah. So when you think about how fast that love was, so you said that you really, it was fast, it was intense.

40:17Is that what led to the first breakup? Yeah. Obviously, the drinking was creeping up. And then I said, this is getting a bit much, and we're saying horrible things to each other when we don't mean. Let's give it a little rest. It was after that she was the first attempt at rehab. yeah okay so alcohol not for drugs exactly for alcohol so and this is also during this period she's writing back to black that's right yeah so this gave her the experiences um so yeah so me essentially obviously there's been so many people that have said it i remember this is me being a name dropper you ready yes i was at coachella festival and drew barrymore came into the dressing room and i just loved you very much great actress yes amy too she came into the dressing room and said back to black's the best breakup album ever she goes i broke up with my boyfriend recently and i've just been driving around listening to it in the car and just it's helped me so much yes yes so back but that came from a real place because it was our breakup it was so so you know when i think about this is that back so back to black let's just look at the the sheer reach of it.

41:33Yeah. So over eight times platinum in the UK. Well, I know she did very well. I've been with her when she was presented lots of discs. I remember lots of discs. Yeah. So Back to Black was certified eight times platinum in the UK, three times platinum in the US. It sold over 20 million copies worldwide, making it one of the best selling albums of the 2000s. it spent over 170 weeks on the uk albums chart yeah went on to win five grammys yeah all right now i happen to have right here next to me yeah if this is okay um i'm not i'm not sure if it's too much thanked on this oh you did yeah i think so you're my name's on there at the back so i know it's definitely in the thanks let's see if it's inside i'll show you it because i remember she brought it to the pub to show me and I was laughing so I just get one little oh here it is yeah oh I know oh wow I know you were just can you see now why I was a little bit I see it thank you yeah you're just kind of mixed in there but I think she was at the time when this was asked to be off to write her thanks she was still in seeing the person that she'd been seeing over our break so she was trapped in a bit of a position of i can't really release this album and then thank the person it's about because you know it's yes yes more i mean it is it's a genuinely authentic up upset breakup album sorry it is genuinely yeah to to to the point where you recommend it to people when they're oh my goodness listen to this do do you have do you have a favorite track hmm yeah I liked I like um well like when I was seeing her live my favorite track's not on there my favorite track was on Frank so my favorite track of Amy's ever is called me pumps which is the best song on Frank in my opinion my favorite song on this one I loved the beat of you know I'm no good yes I went to see that music video that was a I had a real you know trip because she's like this that guy's you that's you that yeah that is the first time I knew that she'd written any song about me it's always when she said oh Blake I'm I'm doing a video do you want to come and see me I was like yeah of course I'll come and see you I went there I had no idea what the album was she hadn't played it to me really and I'm stood there and and then I was like listening things I'm hearing lines like Jamaica in Spain and I'm like well I went to Jamaica and you went to is this but I said is this about me and And Ann, it's all about you.

44:12The whole album's about you. So it's like when I was singing the Blake tattoo, I was like, what? You know, that kind of like, I'm happy and proud and like, but blown away as well. Like how it's such a strange feeling to have somebody write, you know, not just songs, beautiful, amazing songs about you. Yes. Even if some of it's like you were a bit of a bastard, a bit of a player, a bit of a, you know, I like that kind of, Amy liked that sound, that kind of 60s girl group sound. She liked that kind of feeling, which was obviously more, you know, acceptable maybe 20, 30 years ago. She liked the idea of being like hopelessly in love.

44:54Yes, of being, you know, almost old-fashioned in a sense. She said to me many times, I want to just be a wife, just make you dinner. and just you know that to be us that's i'm just your way yes get your beer after work type thing yeah you know quite honestly it's it's it's an album that you just can play there's no skips do you know funnily enough when me and amy used to be we you know we were in last time it happened i think i can remember it was in cans or nice and we'd gone to a bar and they were playing it And she always said, can you turn that off? Yeah. She would never want to hear it out and about.

45:39Why do you think that is? I don't know. I think maybe it contained a lot of memories for her that went deeper than just somebody, you know, maybe singing along to rehab. Okay, okay. I think that's part of why Amy, aside from the music, aside from the actual genius of the songs, is that people can relate to it because she's writing about things that most people have felt, you know, like just being in love with somebody and it not working out for whatever reasons and how that feels and how it hurts. Yes. Love's a real dark commotion at times. It can make you do some really crazy things. Yes. And the rawness of it, I heard, or actually I read, there was an account where she was pitching the album where I think one of the executives at the label wanted her to come demo some of the songs.

46:38For Back to Black? For Back to Black. And Amy demoed two of the songs, and the response was, can you do something lighter? Can you sing about love as we know it? And I think that a lot of people would have gone and switched and rewrote. There was no doing that with Amy. Do you know what? That's one of the things that I've always... My stance now is that I know a lot of people, especially people reading media 20 years ago, would have an idea that Amy's passing is my responsibility. As I've always said, I never shirk from any responsibility. If I've done something, I'll put my hand up to it. But I'm okay.

47:28I'm not okay, but I've made my peace with, yeah, I had a part to play. But there's one thing, aside from everyone else, that also had a role to play. Amy herself had agency, and that is in no way at all disrespecting her by saying that. But Amy did what she wanted to do. And even though the drinking had started to hurt her, she carried on. and I just feel that sometimes that can get lost on that album. There's that element, like I just said, of her being helplessly in love, but she was actually a very strong woman. Yes, right, right. You know, can we talk about anything you want? Yeah. So you realize this album is about you.

48:20Yeah. What do you begin to feel as a result of hearing these lyrics? When I first heard the album, obviously, same as everyone else, in a sense of, that's a really good song. And just listening to it and thinking, this is really good, obviously. The lyrics were something that I'm never good with hearing lyrics. I had to read them. When I read them, it was like reading old love letters in a way because they're referencing certain things between us, you know, things that we've spoke about, things that we've said to each other. Yes. So it's surreal to see that and to hear people singing it and to be in a taxi and to hear it, you know, to that song.

49:06You think, that's about me or that's about us or that's about when that happened or this is, you know. Yes, it's quite strange. Were there any lyrics that surprised you? hmm there's a few perhaps that were a little bit close to the bone okay yeah which which ones do you want me to say yeah if i mean if you yeah because i'm curious to find that because the whole album is basically about you yeah so when i had to have a conversation with a girl i was seeing um about he left no time to regret kept his dick wet with his same old safe bet that was something that obviously was a comfortable conversation to have with a girl I was seeing at the time.

49:49She said, am I the safe bet? And, you know, obviously I felt a responsibility in that sense. So there were times, of course, where I was like, oh, that's what I see when I say about a love letter or a page of a diary. Right. Do you know? Right. I had no, like, ownership. Like, you know, it wasn't that case. It was just a sense of, yeah, it's kind of exposed in a way. Yes, but it seems like all the lyrics were true. Yeah, they were. But really, a lot of people would look at Back to Back and be like, this is about, you know, a bad relationship. Yes. And, you know, it's so tortured and so. But it wasn't.

50:25We actually had a lot of fun or else there wouldn't have been that sadness after. That's right. But the fact that every lyric, you say every lyric was true. I think that's also the brilliance of Amy Winehouse. Because so many, I think, songwriters will almost embellish moments. Yeah. You know? No, it's lived experience. You could be the most famous source material for an album, for like a best-selling album ever, you know? Yeah, I wonder, it's not something you hear about very often, is it? Muses. No, you are the muse. Can I ask you about rehab? Yeah. Because I remember I was watching the documentary, Amy.

51:092015 film. Absolutely. Which, by the way, what did you think about that film? I thought it was really fair. I thought that for me, at that time in my life, it felt so... I felt so supported by an aspect of that process. The filmmakers themselves, especially the producer James,

51:33And I wasn't portrayed as the bad guy. I felt at that time, before the documentary, that was the only narrative put forward by the papers. There was a journalist at Amy's funeral for some reason, and he'd made a point of squarely attributing Amy's not being there to me. He said, we all know why Amy's not here today. We're not even going to say his name. Meanwhile, I hadn't been in a relationship with Amy for a couple of years at this point. She was seeing somebody else. I was in a new relationship. I was just trying to live my life. So the documentary that kind of didn't hammer that home, it didn't seem to want to villainize me.

52:22It's okay to have the facts, yet I was a young drug addict at the time and I was not in a good position i'm talking about you know the when the addiction came in and then when we divorced etc and then eventually what what happened the documentary felt like the first ever time that somebody hadn't just tried to say the same story this this guy villainized him you know there's no other blame here nobody else's response or only this one single addict and that's that felt like the documentary was like no no you know this isn't yes it's not live it's not how it happened and that's just not how life works so that this was my interpretation of of that particular film uh was that there was this equation around the passing of amy yeah and there was lots of components to that equation you were one but there were others yeah that were in that equation but a question i do have just in this moment thinking back to the album is that with uh rehab the attempt was to place her into rehab but it was for alcohol addiction that's right yeah Okay, yeah.

53:41Dad had taken her to a rehab, but obviously, famously, didn't go in. Okay. Or did go into the reception and looked around at the people there and said, I'm not this. I'm not drinking mouthwash and, you know, waking up in the middle of the night to have tips of drink. I just binge drink occasionally when I'm upset, was her reasoning at the time. Okay. Okay. It's quite hard to label yourself as something. you know when you think is that what i am yes which is why uh previously you know we were talking about the line between uh with dependency and addiction dependency and addiction yeah they are two separate things i believe in a sense you can be you can be what's called like a dry drunk for example where you don't drink but you still make sure you do the same routines every day you know you might you might go in the pub and order a coke you know but you still have to be the pub no so there's there's an element of that in a sense of for me dependency as in i woke up and i needed opiates to to even for i could even walk you know is where it went um didn't start like that but that's where it went so we both had that addict insiders addiction to disease but we both had that component um and yeah you know that's what took amy and was how could she she wasn't using drugs when she died yeah she wasn't drugs and drugs not no drugs in her system when she died but what's also hitting me now is that it was the perfect storm brewing right when this album comes out back to black yeah because you two are rekindling yeah your love affair um you are you two are not addicts no that's right yeah then you add on the press you add on the money yeah and yeah definitely that also sometimes it's an unreal situation being in an environment like on tour you know it's not it's not a a very kind of a it's not a generic thing is to be traveling to different countries every day for 12 hours and playing a show part of that culture would be drinking or would be drugs um drugs and alcohol will always be involved in the music scene unfortunately so how quickly do you two come back together i remember clearly that the confirmation of let's just do this again let's just get back together i'd gone to see in a pub called the Hawley Armton Camden.

56:23The guy that she was previously seeing showed up, and she said, I'm with Blake. Obviously, I'm going to be with Blake. I've always loved Blake. You knew that when I met you, so you can't really be too upset about it. She was just... That a matter of fact? Yeah, and the guy got photographed. It was a story. There were journalists everywhere. They knew it, and they said, oh, Amy gets rid of Alex. Was that really the moment that you two were back together? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that was, that was, I'd say we were married about maybe seven, eight months later. Look at that. Look at that. So you're married seven, eight months later.

57:07Can I, this is the last photo that I have, by the way. Is it a wedding bit? This is, okay, this is... You look good. This is good. You two looked phenomenal. Thank you. This is you and Amy. It's a beautiful dress, isn't it? Very good. But, you know, I think she looks elegant, but you look classy. Very classy. I've got a nice suit doing a lot of heavy lifting there. She rang her friend. She rang Kelly Osbourne. When she came, she was like, ah, we got married. Oh, is Kelly Osbourne the first person she called? She was, yeah, yeah. She's a dear friend of ours. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh.

57:39Yeah, lovely, lovely person. But, yeah, I, believe it or not, neither of us were in addiction at that point. Amy had a little bit of a drink on our wedding day no drugs it just it wasn't the narrative was so different at times to the to actually oh we did become that but when we got married we were in America so we got married in Miami um and obviously we just when you're on tour in a country like America I wasn't out trying to find drugs there I didn't feel safe doing that I didn't know people to to buy drugs off so i just didn't do drugs obviously i'm not saying they weren't there it i just didn't know the people to ask um so our wedding day no matter what anyone could ever say couldn't never take that away not both of us were fully we knew it's compass men comes so so this is also shocking because no drugs that day at all to to to to read the headlines yeah it was already You were an addict, junkie.

58:44I wasn't. Like I said, we'd smoked heroin. We'd had that weekend where we first realized, oh, we got a bit poorly from this. Then from then we'd had our kind of three or four months where it became more like a daily thing. but yet we still went to America with no substitute, no methadone or Sobitex, which are the drugs that they'd normally do, the medication they'd give you to help if you're an opiate addict. We had none of that. We just went out there and withdrawn. So I would spend maybe 14 hours in a hotel shivering. Amy would be, you know, in a bath or trying to get warm. Horrible, horrible.

59:27But we'd just do that and then we'd be fine. Okay. Not fine. Fine, but yeah. And this is before the wedding. So then even to go back then a couple of months before is a moment that's often talked about. And I think this is great for you to be, create clarity around this is the moment is, okay, Blake introduced Amy to heroin, cocaine and crack. Yeah. What's the truth behind it? So the truth, I mean, it's, to be fair, you know, if I was... Back in the day, I would say, yes, that's me, all my fault. But like I said, when we first met, I kind of need to defend myself slightly on things. It's not fair for people that love me to think, you know, on truths.

1:00:16Amy had started trying cocaine with their ex-partner. There's pictures of Amy at the Brits with, you know, as they do, I'll powder up my nose, you know. And yeah, it was known. It was known that Amy had to experiment with drugs and it was nothing to do with me. Okay. The heroin was something, as I said, I tried, let's say, ten times, smoked it over a period of six months with some friends. That's where I was at with that. But, yeah, the first time she did it was with me, and it was probably my sixth time. Okay. Okay, fair enough. And the way that the story is told, at least, is that... I think it's that I was a hardened drug addict, and then I somehow, you know, would have manipulated that situation.

1:01:04It's just not true. It's not true. It's just not the case, no. And then also, did you encourage her to take the heroin? No. No, there was no encouraging or not. It was a sense of, in the same way that if I said, I know this is going to sound strange to a lot of people, But if I said to my friend, do you want a beer in the pub? I'm not hoping that they fall into alcoholism. Or if I, at that stage of my life, was it a stage where I said, oh, do you fancy a lime, mate, to my pals? I wasn't thinking with any luck they'll become a drug addict. There was no destructive element to it. It was, do you want to try this?

1:01:44Right, right. Because heroin for you, what did it do for you? It just gave me a cushion and a protection and allowed me to feel okay in myself in a way that the same way cocaine gave me a confidence. Heroin gave me an insulation, like a bubble. It kind of made me feel like, okay, I'm all right. I'm okay in here. And also too, Blake, I would imagine at this time, in those first few months before you got married, it just, not that Amy becomes an overnight success because clearly she's successful. but i would imagine the level of fame yeah completely different takes away the the the fame that amy um experienced and and and had from frank was completely different to the back to black obviously the the press is still the press you know they still do their stories but the amount of it i think the second film back to black with jack o 'connell and mr so that was jack o 'connell plays you yeah again i don't think i came across as the villain in that film as i again i'm trying to reiterate i don't see myself as it was so strange for waking up and knowing that there's a hundred people outside waiting to take a photo of you sneezing or looking a bit bit betrackled yes yes they could say horrible things about you so everyone will join in and say all things about you more and and how how bad did did that press get because this was the 2000s where there where the intrusion still upskirting people in them days weren't they there was it was taking photos underneath that was really underneath amy skirt no i'm saying that was the presses that was their vibe at the time so they had those zero we had we got our phones hacked yeah i got interviewed by the police years ago about about having our phones tapped which is crazy to me and how much kind of sway did the press have us i i so i i didn't fully or begin to understand this until we had jamelia as a guest and her phone was hacked yeah uh and she talked about how insular it made her because she began to think that her friends and family were selling stories completely and utterly empathize with that i've had the same thing you you see something you think who could have said that and it does it it completely it makes you more insular in a sense amy and i it was it was like you said perfect storm the fact that outside our window there were people trying to tear us down as we saw it made our bond stronger and add drugs into that And it did become to that daily addiction stage quite easily and quite quickly.

1:04:32And it was like, this is our safety net. Yeah. Would you say that, were you naive to the dangers of heroin? Yeah. Even though, like I said, I absolutely adored the film Drain Spotting. You don't think that's going to be you. Like I said earlier with that thing of buying your mate a drink, you don't think alcoholism is going to, hundreds of millions of people around the world are in addiction but but yeah you just somehow think no i i can have fun with it i'll be okay i'm not like them guys i'm i do it like you know whatever kind of ways you try and justify it to yourself unfortunately amy never ever got to a stage of IV drug use of intravenous injecting um I did uh and yeah I would say my time after post Amy post Amy's passing especially was was about as miserable and as full-on of a of any drug drug assistance you could get we're gonna go there we're gonna go there can't wait oh my I'm sure you're excited about that.

1:05:42Yeah. Maybe one other thing on the press, because I don't think, like when I look at the images of you and Amy walking out of anywhere, the flat walking out, all I see is flash, flash, flash, flash. Amy, Amy, Amy, Amy. Yeah, just walking backwards. You're just trying to walk somewhere. Yes. To go to the shop to get some milk. I've seen her accidentally hit a camera. I've heard stories of paparazzi throwing drug paraphernalia in the car. I've heard even, I'd say, eight months ago, I got photographed. I've been to the shop. I was making a breakfast. I've been to the shop to buy some tinfoil to grill some bacon.

1:06:31It was before I was vegetarian. and the photograph was Blake's buying tinfoil. Ha! Heroin. That's another reason why I've come on heroin. No, I cannot escape it. And I think I've got people that love me and I'm not on drugs. Why should I just allow them to say it? Am I not allowed to buy tinfoil from now on? Right, right. But this speaks to even that time period because you were being characterized as a junkie. Yeah, I was. So what was the conversation like between you and Amy? It's a horrible word, isn't it? It is. It is. It's a horrible word. I think about people in addiction. I think their kindness nowadays is far more than it was 20 years ago.

1:07:19Like I say, it was something to be laughed at or ridiculed or, you know, demonized. It's disgusting or it's this or that. There was a picture of me and Amy. we'd had a really bad, I'm sure you probably might talk about it, you might not, there's a picture of Amy and I, we'd had a really, we'd had an argument, she'd ran off somewhere, I'd gone off somewhere, all drama, and I'd self-harmed quite badly. Amy had also self-harmed, blood I'd dripped onto her ballet pumps, and for the press, that was all they needed, is Amy was injecting between her toes. And that was for years. And I imagine some people still think that's what that picture was, rather than, you know, we both got clearly cuts and it's just two sad people that have, you know, had an argument and it's public.

1:08:12There's nothing good about it. It's incredibly toxic, not normal. But we weren't treated with any kindness or any normalcy. It was, look at these two. You know, he's doing this to her. She's an addict, a bad one. and he's no it's his fault and it's his fault i didn't know how to deal with that i didn't know how to deal with why is everyone hating me it feels horrible psychically to even think like there's millions of people are reading that i'm trying to hurt this person that i love it's a hard memory to to think about but when i think about that it's like a low point of my life it shouldn't be a low because of shame or that it should be a low because that was some, you know, me and my best friend who I loved crying out for help.

1:09:01Yes. And just getting pointed at and laughed at and blamed while also keeps getting on stage, Amy. We need to get paid. Yes, yes. When I consider the media putting me out as a shield or Amy's management, I don't include her family in that. I think that's a natural reaction. If I was Mitch in Mitch's shoes, I would also have thought, is this the guy that's making her do drugs? Because I don't want to imagine that she does them on her own because then it might be on me. I might have done something wrong because, you know, it's not the case. It's just addiction. It's how it is. But if you're having to, if you've got somebody that's the focal point, And it just, I think that's what happened with Mitch.

1:09:48It became far less painful for him to look at anything deeper. So it was, we were for a while close. In a sense, we chatted. I'll be honest, before Back to Black, I saw Mitch maybe twice. After Back to Black, I saw him, after it released, I saw him, well, five, six times a week. It was, yeah, he was a lot more involved. it was just how it was uh he um yeah and we we had we had a relationship we we were friends uh to some extent obviously it was my father-in-law um but yeah i like the guy he visited me in jail oh wow yeah and we had a dialogue he knew i wanted amy to be clean at that stage you know this is stage where we i was in jail amy was struggling and he was desperate i think you know he's like can you help or do anything because it's obviously no she she's really suffering um and then from that point on with there was something happened um where there was a massive switch that kind of got i don't know what happened but but something happened where

1:11:06he there was no more dialogue he it was very very entrenched i rang him up one day we used to call I used to call him quite a bit and he was completely different, just a different person with me. Yeah, was not kind, not nice and I was like, you know, what's the problem? What's going on? I still don't know. We've never spoken since. We have, we spoke once since. I said to him, he said, I was in a rehab and he asked, he said, this is going on and on, you and Amy, me what's happening I said I will divorce her Mitch if you think that's he said if you love her you'd leave her because it's not you know together you guys are not going to work he said you need to trust me and divorce her and if it's meant to be you'll be you know so I said I will let's see I said something about you know me being a shield for the past sort of five six years obviously I I don't want to keep doing that now if I'm not going to be part of it.

1:12:08So please try and do that for me. This is obviously Amy was still alive. So it's a completely different mindset. I think I said, would you help me with a deposit on a house or something? I said, because obviously after being subject to the media I've had, I said, I'm going to really struggle. I said, also, I haven't got much. You could help me. That would be great. He said, of course, we'll look after you. I said, I'll not ask Amy for a penny. I said, you know that. He said, no, I know. But yeah, we never spoke again. From that moment. Yeah. I also thought for a while that, bearing in mind that I managed to get sober, to get abstinent from drugs, that he would have, you know, somehow taken a comfort from that.

1:12:56I know Amy also would have... I think about that sometimes how Amy would be now, and I know she'd be in the same position I am. You know, have that... It wouldn't be an entrenched bit, a comfortable... You know, comfortable with the self. Not needing to drink or to do a substance to be happy. Just being her, I know she would have got there. Yeah. I know you want, for Mitch, this is Amy's father, is it that you want to have a relationship with him? Not a relationship, no. but I wouldn't, I would like it if he would acknowledge that I loved Amy, that she loved me. I know he knows it, but I think it's painful still for him to say it because I think it's, like I said to you, it opens up a possibility of if you can't blame that person for your daughter not being there, what does that leave you with?

1:13:58You know, I would say it's maybe akin to You've got to forgive somebody, haven't you? I'm asking him to forgive me in a sense of I wasn't responsible and Ed Forsyte as a young addict into thinking what the future may hold with that. Amy died of drink, nothing to do with drugs. But still, I know that as is common, that the idea that that's my doing, my fault. I never blamed the person that gave me drugs for the first time i've never never tried to put that on anyone every man why would i you know i that that was me so i never understood did these people think i forced amy to do drugs that that's just not what happened right right the the way that i read the stories yeah is that you were the introducer and then the continual facilitator yeah of those drugs not true at all And then again, Amy's worst stage of her addiction was when I was remanded to jail for a pub fight, trying to stick up for my pals.

1:15:16And Amy's addiction at that point had been her and I together. So it was me more in control of how much we were getting. So I'd say, we don't need more than that. That's enough. And I was like that. and people would say that's that's not true it it was i when i was in jail amy's dealer was still very much a daily presence in amy's life and i knew that and she was in photographs with amy at times and i well and i know that the amy's family knew this and i know that spoke about Amy's management knew it. So, yeah, like I say, my main thing for that is always that case of I'm not shirking responsibility, but this idea of daily facilitating.

1:16:05No, I wasn't the dealer. But see, so this is the part that I think we all need the clarification or not need, but it would be good to get the clarification. So you just said that Amy's dealer is known to her family. They were at the time, yeah. Is known to her management. Yeah, definitely. Known to the record company. Yeah, of course, yeah. So everyone is aware that Amy has an addiction, that you have an addiction as well. Yeah. At any point, does anyone intervene on your behalf or Amy's behalf? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely that did happen. There was an occasion where, as I said, we were naive to all the possibilities and the depths of drug addiction at that stage.

1:16:58We were still in the first six months of it. So hadn't seen the misery. All we'd got told is this is really bad. Don't do it, guys. so we hadn't been at those crushing lows that you get from addiction you know stomach cramps and and self-arm that wasn't there it was it was dare i say it was still like the naivety side of it but be that as it may as soon as it became public knowledge that there was drugs in the relationship we were yeah there was one occasion they tried to We were both in a rehab for a few weeks. It didn't last, it didn't stick, but that's not uncommon. I think, obviously, you know, a lot of families, possibly the management, they quite quickly came around to the idea that get rid of me, get rid of the problem.

1:17:57And that obviously didn't happen.

1:18:03And I also would add to that, if Amy and I had been in a relationship at the time of her passing, I wouldn't, I would have been with her. I would have been with her. Even when I was in jail, in Pentonville, in solitary confinement for failing drug tests, you know, addiction. When I was in that stage, Amy had spoken on the phone to her and she said she was out drinking. she'd fallen asleep on her front doorstep so I rang her manager from jail and got him to go and pick her up so even in jail I'm not saying oh I'm great not at all I'm just saying I still had that level of where I would be like yo you need to get over there Amy's so I still I would have done anything I would never in a million years of let her just sit and get drunk all day yeah all day And this speaks to the circle and the machine, right?

1:19:02And I always think that how much of the team, if you will, that was around her was focused on function over her health? I would say that the majority of even in a documentary I think her manager says from my point of view I did the job I was expected to do which is put Amy on as many stages as possible he says it wasn't my job to look after health which I don't think is perhaps you know it it seems strange as a sentiment but I don't think there was a responsibility felt as I said that there was a convenient scapegoat all along. So there was never any sense of what can we do to help this. It was Amy was still performing a few weeks before she passed away and was clearly in trouble on some, you know, you could see in stages.

1:19:55I kept reading at a time about the recovery of Amy, look how great she's doing, but I could see that the weight she put on seemingly was from alcohol. I could see that and I recognised that. So I thought this isn't true. it's a lie she's not doing well and i knew she wasn't because we were still speaking and writing a young woman in her 20s drank herself to death in a million pound mansion with security and family that that's that's depressing sad and and you know tragic isn't it it's tragic but but it's also So I think it's a bit unforgivable from a sense of people, like you said, you asked the question of responsibility and whether it was get her on stage, let's do our job or hang on a minute, this person doesn't look right.

1:20:49I once got on stage and took Amy off stage because she was struggling. I would think nothing of doing that. You know, I wasn't bothered about people who pay 40 pounds to say, I didn't care. that was my wife and she was struggling on stage i went and got her off stage so come on this isn't working it's just chill so when i saw footage of her in i think it might have been belgrade oh yeah that was heartbreaking that's heartbreaking who's letting her do this i know that seems ironic because i say you couldn't make amy do what she wanted amy told me a story that she said she'd gone to sleep in a taxi and woken up in the place where she was at she hadn't remembered anything of the plane taxi to the airport the plane ride departure or she hadn't remembered anything she just woke up there it's a little scary did you and amy ever talk about getting clean together all the time when we were in addiction yeah and after when i when we'd split um i'd filed for divorce she used to come and see me i'd moved up to the north to yorkshire she'd come and see me and i just i'd had a real successful stint in rehab and I was clean and then I had somebody come and visit me that I'd met in the rehab that was still in addiction unfortunately and I thought I could help them etc you know people helped me I'm going to help this person and obviously before I knew I was back in addiction and Amy would make a point of telling me if I need help she was there for me she said I'll pay for rehab mexico she said well it wasn't absolutely take her up on that but yeah so we did we had lots of conversations in a sense of before when we were married as in together sat there saying let's not do this yeah there were lots of times i know were times when it was it was just day to day it was just our normal it wasn't we didn't see ourselves as we're raging addicts we were just Amy's got to do this today.

1:22:50All right. You know, we need to take a half hour before she can do that so we can just get normal. Yeah. To get normal. That's interesting. That's interesting. Yeah. Because obviously in the drawer you're feeling a million miles away from normal. So, you know, let's put the drug addiction to the side. I would love to be able to take a window seat to the high life of Blake and Amy, right? So the great times. Not the good times. The great times. The great times. The travels, the people that you met. What to you are some of the most memorable stories?

1:23:37it's hard to do these these um memories as it were without without sounding desperately like a name dropper as i said to you earlier because some of my you gotta remember i was like a normal working class lad you know i it wasn't my world i didn't know famous people and it wasn't i wasn't you know i was like very much wide-eyed meeting people like you know jay-z said about snoop uh but yeah i had a good whoa what was it it was we were in we were in la we were doing the music video for tears dry on their own okay um and then about four o 'clock the director said oh Pammy is doing a magic show in Vegas with this magician and she wants you guys to come.

1:24:32So we were like, oh, okay. And he goes, yeah, she's sending a private jet. I know. She said, this is not my world. I've never even seen one of these things. A private jet? Yeah. That was your first time on a private jet? Yeah, of course. Yeah. And had a great flight, flew over the Strip at night. Yes, the Vegas Strip. Yeah. And then we went to a casino and watched Pamela Anderson's magic show. And then we flew back the next day with some pals. So that type of thing for me, coming from where I come from, was so surreal, so strange and amazing. I didn't even know Pamela Anderson had a magic show.

1:25:13Oh, yeah. She was the assistant. And she was fabulous. Really? Disappearing, getting chopped in half, all of that. Really? If I remember right. Oh, my god. Yeah. Wow, that's something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, now that's the story. That's the story. It's just one of the other. Were there any people that... Do you want to know why I was good friends? Who? That was unexpected. I'm sure he might might end if he sees this. He might reach out. He might be pals again. David Schwimmer. Really? He's such a nice guy. Such a nice guy. And a genuine Amy fan. He came to see Amy in a small pub when Amy was doing...

1:25:50This is before Amy was doing big stages. so he was right on it from the, let's say from the start. I mean, he must have been a fan from Frank. He was in Camden. He was with his, he was seeing his girlfriend at the time. I don't know my situation as well. And he was so clearly just a fan of the music and was so happy. And all the time, like, this is Russ from Friends. And he was so chill, so cool. We used to text each other and he, like, had little nicknames. Really? But we were mates. Wow. Yeah, roommates. It's a whole nother life. It really was, yeah. Were there any celebrities or politicians, or I'll just say public figures, that Amy just couldn't believe that she met?

1:26:37No. Yeah. Yeah, quite a few, I guess. An obvious one would be she met Prince, and she was very happy about that. But to be fair to Ames, she could get blown away by a little kid coming up to her and saying, I love your tunes. She'd be like, oh, love you, darling. Oh, you're so pretty. You know, and like that, she'd be more engaged. I think in terms of art, she respected those lots. But I'd say Prince was probably her big one. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, that's almost as big as you get. Have you ever noticed how many of your friends are sitting on great business ideas? It's usually nothing to do with thinking their idea isn't good enough and everything to do with the execution side feeling a bit too technical.

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1:29:03Before starting EBCLIS, tell your doctor if you Ask your doctor about EBCLIS and visit EBCLIS.lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. How did you and Amy finally separate? What were the circumstances? Why did it happen? When we divorced. When you divorced. Because, you know, when the week Amy passed, we were still right. I was in jail, unfortunately. Unfortunately, we were still very much talking about the possibility of reconciling again. So I would say the definitive moment I realized that wasn't going to happen was when I got told that she passed away. It's when I knew that's not me saying, oh, if Amy was alive now, we'd be together.

1:29:47I'm not saying that. I have a life now. I'm in love, happy. However, I have no qualms about saying that, that we would still be in each other's lives now. you know i would have met her today for a like you know drink or a coffee whatever but yeah the final moment of like that's it was never final for me the divorce wasn't the end the arguments weren't the end the press uh a dad none of that would have was was strong enough to to pull us apart it was only her and i saying nobody understands this but us let's see if we can show that we get clean you do that I'll do that and then we'll see where we're at but it didn't happen it happened now in the maybe this is the the 2015 film I feel like the depiction was that because you were incarcerated right at this time there was a photo that that that you saw oh yes with with the infidelity in terms of more of it yeah in terms of like the relationship side of it rather than the deep emotive side on the surface level you've got to remember that when we met she was he had to think of somebody else I was jealousy wasn't wasn't where I was at in that relationship however the marriage thing for me meant it went into a different realm so infidelity in a marriage was ultimately for me something that I did struggle with and I would have struggled with if we would have reconciled.

1:31:20In fact, I did when we tried to. And I'm sorry, Blake, you're saying that infidelity is something that you would have struggled with. You're saying if... In that stage after marriage, yeah, I thought we're married, we're not doing that anymore. There's no more infidelity. Okay. And I think perhaps Amy, I was in jail. It's not, I understand fully and completely. Amy was a vulnerable addict. There were people out there selling stories on the left, right and center at the time. i think she was desperately lonely desperately sad i'm not you know i'm not kind of pedestal you know i'm saying i know addiction and i know that amy's heart was always with me at that stage okay you know i know that and i knew that and she'd tell me that i just knew it was the situation but i still couldn't it wasn't something i could i could abide it in a sense and and so you first did you first see the images of her on a beach with with someone yeah and then you two must have corresponded with each other and then she she told you what happened told me what happened i i yeah obviously very upset etc then we worked on things kept chatting kept writing but ultimately it was it was just too much and i felt a clean start as well would have been a really good thing to do in a sense we actually spoke when I first moved up to Yorkshire after I got to have a rehab up there we spoke about getting married again yeah which probably gave her dad nightmares but yeah that was that was where we were at yeah still still very much yet we're gonna do this she came to see me at Christmas from Christmas together I mean there's a lot of times Amy and I were always you know there's never any time where it was like we didn't like each other or we hated each other or we weren't speaking even right up until our passing.

1:33:14Yes, yes. At what point did you, because I know there's been a lot made of this, so this gives you an opportunity to clarify this, is that, so you come out of prison and this is the quote, you probably know what quote I'm going to give is, I'm a big man, I'm handsome. do i say i go to the gym i dress well what am i doing wasting my time in a sense of being publicly cheated on it's probably that's my ego speaking isn't it okay so so that's exactly seems quite obvious to me i don't remember that quote it seems like something silly i would have said to try and make myself feel i have to just yeah yeah because i would have thought oh it's humiliating yes how can I somehow act like I'm okay with it?

1:33:59Right. That's what that was. Yeah. No, and which is exactly what I thought that was, because that is a statement that is someone trying to puff up. Exactly. Artificially inflate. Oh, completely artificially. I've never once thought any of those things about me were true. But yeah, if you say something, you know, it's halfway to sort of believing that, I guess, in that sense, you know, like, oh, I'm okay. I, you know, look, I'm fine. I'm not, I'm not humiliated. It's her loss. Right. Right. I'm going to be fine. Yeah. And so this was so totally fine. It's tears. Yes. Yes. So so it was after that point where I think you probably went to Yorkshire.

1:34:48Yeah. And then she comes and she visits you. That's right. You're you're both talking about reconciling and signing. and then bit by bit i sit back into addiction watching it yeah okay and from that point on it was it was more a case of get better now rather than me and you it was you know i was going from the stage where we've been at before which was nothing innocent about drug use but was more a naive smoking of drugs became injecting of drugs ah okay so that was something that couldn't be around her and wasn't for her and didn't she had just never was never gonna let that be something she'd see me doing and she wouldn't and didn't it was it was yeah so i'd gone to that level of it what do you think drove you to that point because i recall earlier in the conversation you mentioned you never thought you would inject yeah that's right by the time I was in Yorkshire um I had been in a rehab with people that were more it was a community rehab so it wasn't a private one it wasn't uh it wasn't a facility that was for um well-off people it was genuine addicts um you know and all that brought with it i felt like a fake in there i felt like you know i'd these guys had had these really really hard stories to drugs and i was somebody that had just experimented with and ended up falling into a bit of a daily addiction for a few months and then i'd been incarcerated after those few months and i've been put in a rehab so i felt like i I hadn't even been at that stage a hardcore heroin user, which is what I then became by my associations I made at that rehab.

1:36:50That's, yeah, on me, fully on me. Was that the last time that you saw Amy? No. No, no. When was the last time you two saw each other? She had a lovely flat or house in Marlebone. I went to see her maybe, I want to say about five months, six months before she passed away, maybe five months. Yeah, it was the last time I saw her. Okay, okay. Are you open to sharing with them? We were exactly as we always were. we were as intimate as we had been. We were still, it was just, we just met each other. I hadn't seen her at this stage for a while. I was in addiction, struggling, and I met her for a couple of hours.

1:37:48We had a really nice time, really nice chat, and it was a case of, you know, I have to go now. It wasn't, you know, let's stay together, let's get you right as it didn't need to be. It was a case of, you know, we'll see you soon. Okay. And I'll be better next time. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And so shortly thereafter, you were incarcerated again. Again. Okay. It was, yeah, housebreaking and just stealing really, really scummy, disgusting, shameful things. I'm not, I don't ever try and hide that side of me. My family, the people that love me know that. I've got no, I couldn't hide anyway because it's all out there.

1:38:32but I struggle to reconcile how low I really got through addiction. I don't try to pass it off. I don't say, hey, that was an addict. It wasn't me. It was me, but I know the person I am, the person I was raised to be, I would never have been in that situation. I can say that and or not. I might have done lots of silly things, but that level of stealing other people, breaking into a house, it was it i would have been distraught if someone did that to me yes yes like i it was just a real low but obviously for me by that time i was a complete you know i was about 55 kilos yeah on like six foot and a half and i was 55 kilos at my waist like a 26 inch waist goodness goodness Really, really poorly.

1:39:28Yes. Really poorly. I was in a coma from my addiction. I was in a couple of comas. I lost organs. So, yeah, yeah, real, real misery of addiction. And then just before I got told that Amy had passed away, the last letter that I received was Amy, which the same as we'd always said, you know, nicknames, silliness, jokes, and she said,

1:39:55me and you let's let's really really give it a go as friends yeah and i said let's do it we'll always be friends but it's in a sense of because for a few weeks earlier we'd been saying shall we shall we get back together she'd said i want to come and see you shall we so we tentatively talked about it and then we just well she decided she decided you know what yeah cool it so i was like okay, that's cool. And then she obviously never got that letter. This is so interesting. So the last letter you received, Amy said... It got stolen from me in jail. Oh, did? Yeah. It's disgusting, I don't know. Even in jail, you have hierarchies.

1:40:34People that steal from people's cells, their possessions, that's like low. I mean, it's not the lowest of the low in jail, but it's down there. Yeah. And I got my letter stolen. I should have anticipated it. But yeah, devastated. I don't have that still. That letter. You received it, but you wrote her back. But you're saying she didn't receive it. I can't imagine so, no, because I think I remember that week. I remember that we'd spoken on a Monday or a Wednesday, and then I was saving my pin phone credits, called her on the weekend because it was weekend rates, so it'd last a bit longer. So instead of a minute, you might get two minutes, you know?

1:41:15So I was like, I'll save it till Saturday. And then Saturday morning, went to ring it. I'd say, you know, hi, what are you up to? I got your letter. I was written you one back. And no answer. No answer when I tried again in the afternoon. And then after about, I can't remember what time, maybe four, five, six o 'clock, and even some prison officers came to my door and told me what had happened. Do you remember, so you remember that moment exactly? Of course. Are you open to sharing what happened? yeah I can yeah I've I was I was um in my cell took me down to an office told me showed me a news headline because I said it it'll be a hoax just straight away I said oh it's not true don't worry when I was in jail for the first time I'm not a religious person but I used to pray every night I'd say please let Amy stay alive until I get out because I had this massive fear like an absolute control fear something's going to happen to her if i'm not not if i'm not about okay so it's going to happen to when i'm in here and i'm not able to to do anything or help or or even be there i just always said please keep Amy alive until i get out um yeah so when when they told me that my first thought was this is my worst nightmare it's not true so i was my brain was grasping it it'll be a hoax you know these things happen right and then they showed me a bbc link and obviously i was i was more yeah i was more conscious at that point that this had happened but my head was swimming straight away um and i just yeah obviously um i i held it together you can't be crying walking down the wings in a jail i had to wait until i got into my cell my cellmate at the time was a really solid guy he'd seen it on the news and uh gave me hugs straight while i burst into tears he started crying too so it's strange i had this got held up by you know as in supported and held up by by somebody i'd known for a matter of weeks that It was the only comfort I had at that moment for losing a massive, huge part of my life.

1:43:37A big part of my heart. Somebody I was not going to see again or hear again or anything again. It was too much. Had you had anyone in your life up until that point who had cared and loved for you more than anybody? No way. that was if you'd say to me why what was it about amy that i liked aside from the obvious things it was that she used to big me up in a way that we like like a hype person you know age something not hyping like hypes i was kind of like a bit false and like a bit you know fake she would be my biggest cheerleader that's better she'd be like oh you that's a great idea darling do that yeah let's try this she just thought i was just thought i was someone she made me feel like someone my life up to that point i was you know i spent years or a couple of years of being homeless in london when i was younger teenager all the misery that entails so by the time amy and i met i had you know yeah that wasn't my life i didn't have people that said to me you're cool you're a nice person and she believed it and she made me feel like it and with her I felt like it.

1:44:53I know that the person I am now, because I look like another different person to my 20s, I would say I wasn't even fully grown and fully mature until my late 30s, adding to that an arrested development of drug use which kind of keeps you in that moment, And you're not having, as I said, you're about heroin being a shield for me, you know, protection. That also stopped things hurting me. You know, I felt like in a sense of something bad happens or somebody says something bad about you. With heroin, you're like, oh, that's okay. But I wasn't growing from these experiences. I was just hiding from them.

1:45:34So there was no emotional growth. There was no evaluation. There was no rehabilitation. It was, you know, yeah. But Amy was that person, you're right, that did make me feel I was worth something. Yeah, yeah. And for my part, for her, if I could add to that, she knew that I was genuine. She knew that I loved her, and she knew that the bad parts about me, the things like, oh, he might chat up another bird, you know, when we first met, or, you know, I gamble a bit or I might like a bit of coke. She would be like, that doesn't define him. She's like, I know him. Right. And she knew that that person would look after her as much as I could, which might not have been enough and wasn't enough, but she knew I wasn't there for any other reason.

1:46:31I wasn't trying to manipulate. I wasn't trying to lie or cheat or take from her. I just wanted to be with her. and enjoy it with her. I don't want to try and take away from her. Like, I'm here too. I don't care about any of that. You know, we'd walk on the red carpet and they'd say, just Amy. I'd be like, yeah, all right. You know, it'd just be funny. I'd be like, well, obviously. No. Right, right. But you didn't try to push your way through. Yeah. Yeah. No, I didn't, like I said, Jermani's not ever been my god. So I wasn't ever like, oh, she earns so much more than me. Just wasn't one of those.

1:47:04It was like, oh, you're getting dinner. Oh, it's right, yeah. just like you would if it was your mate you're nice at the minute aren't you so you can get that thing yes yes yes when amy's funeral took place the chaplaincy team armly arranged for a a jewish person of faithful rapper to come in and tell me what the funeral would be like and yeah he did he read out the passages that would be said and told me you know the lines that were saying to the stage that it would be at and how they conduct those rites. So there was comfort there. But it's quite something to be, not only to lose a part of yourself, your best mate, let's say, someone you loved and was still intensely close to, lose that person, be blamed for it, mourning alone in jail, ostracised in the press as in like it's his fault, the whole thing just fed into my whole thing of addiction again and using and I'm worthless everything's on me right took me a long time to get out of that and to give my head a real good shake to look at myself and I'm never ever here to say hey Amy was bad you know not at all but I know Amy wouldn't want me to still be sat here 20 years later saying it was all my fault she'd be saying get it right babe come on telling the truth you know we were we were just young addicts at the time we weren't start with then we were and it could happen to anyone right right i mean this has happened and it has i mean this brings up what i feel is a constant question of who's responsible yeah right um and and i mean i have lots of ideas and even i question is that even the question but how do you respond to that because this is the constant question the fingers continually to this point 15 years after her her passing the fingers is still pointed at i still have yeah i still have you know all the trappings of that blame put on me in the sense of the media i'll still be treated as that person i'll still they still try and insinuate i'm i'm i'm an addiction i'm not i wouldn't be here if i was by the way i couldn't hide it yeah right um responsibility has to lie at some case with the people around her at the time when amy did pass away the people that were in and out of her daily life that saw her bearing in mind i'd not spoke i'd spoken to amy i'd not seen her for some time and it had only been briefed for a couple of hours um she was in a new relationship i didn't know what i was expected to do the responsibility but that's not me saying it it's it's that i'm just saying everyone needs to say yeah i could have maybe looked out for that or i wish with all my heart i would have realized that was a problem etc but also amy has agency as well and that's important and that's a really hard thing to say when somebody's not here but again I truly believe in my heart of hearts that Amy would have the same attitude as I am you know I've got broad enough shoulders now I can I can take it I was an addict as well I don't think Amy ever did a story like that or even a piece admitting it it was always just said and it was always just my fault that was it there was no no other deeper kind of investigation and Amy chose to drink that day unfortunately the disease was there of addiction but as far as I'm aware nobody would have made her do that the idea along for the past 15 years has been that has been somebody's responsible as in almost in a sense of causing death that that would be the furthest thing from anyone's intentions if you know it didn't even make sense on a logical kind of standpoint like if I was trying to I don't know do something manipulative and try and get this person to pay for my drugs forever the very last thing I'd want is for them to be to not be around that's right I mean the fact is I was in jail for housebreak so I wasn't phoning a baby asking for money I know it's not I'm not saying hey look I'm a nice guy because I what I'm just saying people have always got this very very skewed idea of how actually things went down I am such a good and easy bad guy in it and like I said I won't deny Hi, my mistakes and that, Miri had lots, but now sitting here with you, I truly don't, I know I'm not responsible for Amy's passing.

1:51:56I'm not, and it's the very last thing I would have ever wanted. And I know no matter what, whoever, Amy's family would also agree that I'd imagine that they know that's not what I'd want. This would be the very last thing I'd ever, ever want is for anything it's happened to Amy. Just a heads up, this next part of the conversation includes eating disorders. Please watch with care.

1:52:22One thing we haven't talked about that I believe in the reports after Amy's passing that was a factor was her current level of health. Yeah. And bulimia played a role. Most definitely. in that when was the first time that you realized that she suffered from bulimia i saw it for the first time when we were out for a meal uh and it was terrifying for me because it was something i had no understanding of i didn't know how to deal with it i used to get upset or frustrated i'd be like you don't have to go and make yourself sick now we're just eating a nice meal then she'd say well you know she'll be back in a minute just go into the toilet and make herself sick as far as i'm aware she didn't ever receive any treatment for any disorder and and everyone in the circle was aware of the bulimia yeah they were they were all aware yeah yeah yeah yeah that's about as close as i can get to understanding when when you love somebody and they're suffering from something that you have no understanding of you really can't fathom it what they get out of it and that must have been how not only amy's parents my parents people that love me that they would have felt with me you know my mom used to say why don't you stop when you just stop doing it i was really not it's not that simple you know you cannot you cannot this is what amy's brother alex said with regards to her bulimia okay he said amy suffered from bulimia very badly that's not like a revelation you knew just by looking at her she would have died eventually the way she was going but what really killed her was the bulimia i think that it left her weaker and more susceptible yeah so that's that's what her brother alex mentioned i mean obviously massive amounts of alcohol is what is what caused her passing it was alcohol toxicity i believe yes she was small tiny and drink and would drink too much vodka um but i definitely understand what alex is saying i imagine you know well i know that she was you know getting medication you know diazepam and stuff like that yes but i'm i imagine that mixed with the alcohol she would have drank mixed with seven eight years of constant bulimia yeah she um she was she was poorly yes she was poorly she wasn't in recovery she wasn't fixed she wasn't happy she was poorly still she was i i um it it to me when when i read more and and and speak with you and do the research, it blows me away how prolific bulimia is with illicit drug use.

1:55:34So here's some stats. Up to 35 % of alcohol or illicit drug abusers have an eating disorder. Up to 35 % compared to only 3 % of the general population. So 10 times more. 10 times more. And bulimia has one of the highest mortality rates of any mental health condition yeah i can believe that i think with amy's case it wasn't from as far as i'm aware she never said it to me that it was it wasn't a lifelong condition it was something that for my money she didn't do it when we first met it it was something that came about not to put everything on the press but these reports that you're seeing that you're fat or seeing that you're overweight or and wanting to be like everyone else she wasn't either of those things but i'm saying this was the kind of this was a definite kind of narrative that i remember reading there was one time as well i remember and it was quite a good magazine i can't remember which magazine it was it they had the most unsexy celebrities yeah which is just already like you You wouldn't see that now, would you so much?

1:56:48Maybe on some click-baity page, but it was an article. Can't remember what magazine, I don't want to say which one it was in case it's a wrong one. And I remember that Amy was number two on this list. And I thought, if she saw that, even though she's brave and bullshit, that's gonna hurt anyone's feelings and who the fuck are these people? that don't know us, saying that she's unsexy. But how is that even? Yeah. And I know it sounds like, it can't have been like that, yeah, Bob, Blake's talking mollocks. No, this happened. Yeah, the level of negative press, or should I say the... Amy was referred to as Amy DeKleinaus.

1:57:34That was a common, common nickname. Amy DeKleinaus and Blake Not So Civil. or, like, this is some really amusing journalist, and that's his legacy, you know. Right, right. Yeah, the level of nastiness in the press, it was another level, should I say, to another degree, especially at that time. And what I didn't realize, though, was that connection between the press calling her overweight, essentially. Or Acne Amy was on the cover of a magazine with, you know, just like bad skin. All of that stuff is going to know. It's not even hard to see how you're reading that and you think you're going to feel bad about yourself.

1:58:24Right. I'm sure it still happens now to some degree to celebrities or to musicians. In fact, of course it does. But, yeah, to have your weight, your face, who you are attached, your hair, everything. Right. pulled apart in a way that was fairly acceptable back then it was and you know what blew me away is how even in a lot of these uh um so that the talk shows the nightly shows how in an opening monologue there would just be an open a jimmy white house joke about her i know what was it well it was when you say a joke about her a joke laughing at amy being an addiction or being a mess Yes. That's what it was.

1:59:06This was a source of entertainment for people. But then obviously when somebody dies, they want to be, oh, we're very respectful about this. But you think, well, no, you were the guys that were saying, you know, this, that and the other for years with Glee. Yes. And making these narratives and pushing it. You weren't saying, hey, these two kids might need a bit of help. It was, you know, here we go, we've got a story. Yeah, Amy would have only had that same reaction. And we'd all, we all would. We'd be fine, not bothered. But you take that inside, don't you? And you're bothered. And she's bothered.

1:59:42Who wouldn't be? Right. A comedian, you like making a horrible joke about you looking like, you know, looking like a horse or some shit, you know? You think, what the fuck are you? Right. But you can't, you're gonna be like, good one. Right. And I would imagine that's one of the reasons why you haven't done any interviews. yeah that's the reason why over the last few years you've been quite or free yeah yeah that's it yeah um and and again it's not me seeking these things out with all due respect you know people ask me and nine times out of ten i'll say no no but you know my guy he he said you'd like to come chat with you is there and it seemed like this would be so different to how it was when i was famous or infamous 20 years ago, so different.

2:00:32Yes, yes, yes, I can imagine. If this had been around 10 years ago, me and Amy would have been on every week. It would be sorted. So, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, I think that there's also, because, you know, you're thinking about responsibility, right, when I ask about the responsibility. The one category that we didn't, or one of the categories we didn't talk about is us, the public. You know, those paparazzis are able to be there and sell those photos to news agencies because we're buying it. We're reading it. And we're devouring that information. And I think that equally, you know, if we're all taking responsibility for the passing of one of the greatest artists, arguably, to ever live.

2:01:18No matter what people's perspectives are, Amy could have done loads more things. There's no telling. oh there's you know this is why it gets to this the 27 club did did did she ever or did you ever have any conversation about this conversation about it once yeah i can't i can't recall the actual specifics of it but we had one conversation and i think it was me saying to as in when i was in jail doing my praying please stay alive we had some quite a lot of in-depth conversations around that time because obviously i wasn't i wasn't in daily addiction i was still using drugs in jail but it wasn't it wasn't every time i wanted it might be once a week or twice a week or can i hate talking about stuff like that but yeah that's where i was so i was like on that very first tentative step towards being sober it would have been in a sense of you know saying don't be silly that's not going to be me that and amy said that yeah sure i know she said that i don't know how we got to that where she was like she'll be laughing if this may say don't be stupid no i'll be like oh make sure you don't please because 27 is a big number my brother passed away at 27 as well so yeah at 27 yes yeah um so yeah that that 27 I don't even like using it like a club.

2:02:49It just seems disrespectful to me, obviously, because I've got a personal investment in that person. So I don't agree with this branding of the 27 Club. Like it's some, you know... Something to aspire to. Like a rock and roll kind of thing, yeah. I'm with you. You're right. It wasn't until that moment that it resonated with me. But for everyone who's unaware of what this idea means, it's musicians who have passed away at 27, including Brian Jones, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Kurt Cobain, obviously Amy. And in the past 100 years, there have been over 50 famous musicians who have all passed away at this age.

2:03:33And so it's profound. I didn't realize that it's a discussion that you and Amy had. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it just means that there's a pattern, and the pattern is that younger people, because 27 is no age, is it really? Not where I'm sat now, and, you know, it's not. You've certainly not lived your life.

2:04:03that people with fame and money and, you know, perhaps people that have carried their, the elements of their genius, like in a sense of Cobain or all of them, like Jais and Jimmy, like they, they were so tortured, so intelligent, so genius that they, they were too much, you know, and it's kind of, it puts that rock and roll spin on it, where in actual fact, it would have been just the same as Amy's and my lab. It would have been misery, it would have been enslavement to a substance, it would have been a daily grind. You know, I wish with all my heart that Amy was still there and that wasn't a thing that she would be associated with in a way, that 27 Club.

2:05:00I just feel like it kind of in a way demeans it slightly. Like it's like, oh, it's this rock and roll club. It's what these young musicians do. But they shouldn't, should they? People shouldn't be drinking themselves to death in their 20s. No, no. It's nothing to aspire to. No, exactly that. Yeah. Talking about legacy, what do you believe Amy Winehouse's legacy is and will be? Her legacy is obviously amazing songs. There's no, you know, that's not the full stop as far as I'm concerned, but the people, you know, Gen Z's now that listen to Amy, I think it will resonate for generations. I don't see why it wouldn't.

2:05:54I think people will still be listening to her in 20, 30, 40, 50 years. I think she'll be somebody that will be remembered through history as an amazing, talented singer, but one that wrote honest, genuine lyrics at a time when perhaps it was more expected for artists to be pop artists and to let people write their songs and to conform. I think in many ways she wouldn't want to think, oh, I was the first person to do that, but she definitely helped with other artists, you know, to write their own songs rather than, you know, this person's gonna write that track for you, you just perform it. She definitely made it where labels were more willing to listen to real songs.

2:06:37Yes. Like Adele and like Lily does now, and you know, like just who you are rather than, And no, just some poppy part that you just like listen to on the radio. Amy's songs were real deal, weren't they? They were poems with good music. Yes. You know what I love so much about Amy's music? Yeah. Is it's timeless. You know how you listen to some music and you can place it in a certain time period? Of course, yeah. You could put on any one of these songs from Back to Black. Yeah. Even Frank, right? Even that album. Yeah. And you cannot assign a period of time to it. Yeah, no, you're right. She was, and I think there might have been, you know, some different directions from her with music.

2:07:26She might have gone down some different routes. It might have not been the girl group thing. It might have been, she was, you know, she went from jazz to the Motown thing. She might have gone somewhere else. You think she would have done a hip-hop album? I think she would have loved that very much Really? She was very good friends with Nas Obviously she loved Nas Yeah and They did work together didn't they? They worked together on some cool tunes actually But yeah I think that would have been very cool Not rapping Yeah yeah but she would have been She would have been on the album If Amy could hear you now What would you want her To hear from you?

2:08:10that I'm doing well, that I'm happy, that I mean everything to her, that I'm clean. I'm a happy person. I know that sounds perhaps... I don't mean that to sound dismissive of things. I mean, I have worked hard to get to this. Yes. I've worked hard to get, and I cannot live in the past. I cannot live in the comments. I cannot... That's a different side. I have to be me. I have to be sober, clean, happy, and that would make Amy be on. She'd be over the moon. Yes, I believe that. She'll still be around me every now and then. Like I have a day or two and I'm thinking, oh, I really miss Amy. And then she'll come on the radio in the car.

2:08:54So it's kind of, I know it sounds perhaps a bit hallmarky, but sometimes you could think she's still there. Yes, yes. What's the next chapter? Yeah, exactly. For Mr. Blake, what is the next chapter for you? I've got too many things in my life now which mean too much to me to ever relapse, to ever go back. I couldn't fathom what that would do to my family, the people I love, the people I live with, what that would do to them. so addiction it took years but I don't I still get the odd thought of of drugs believe it or not as as depressing as that is and I'm sure a lot of addicts would would would concur um it'll be every now and then I'll watch a film and I'll get an intrusive thought of her but by and large my life now is is wanting to wanting to be the person I always wanted to be which is in a happy relationship being being clean and feeling valued for who i am which you know i've never had and still amy showed me what it was like yes and i also want to try and reach out and help some people okay through addiction okay okay what's been illuminated for me in this conversation is that, you know, you've always wanted to be seen.

2:10:32You've wanted to be loved. You've wanted to be cared for, as does everyone. Yeah, right. We all want to be affirmed. And you lived for almost the entirety of your adolescence life through to your young adult life not having felt that. And so at that point, you become a self-soother. You try to be a self-regulator. And if you're not equipped with those skills, you go out and you get the things to help you soothe and you get the things to help you regulate. And that's what you did. Also, what I know, which is clear, is Amy loved you. She did. She held space for you. all the way through to the end.

2:11:26Yeah. And we have to realize that, as you've said, and many people have said, she didn't do what she didn't want to do. No, she didn't. She did only what she wanted to do. And she wanted you in her life. And that means, you know, I think that means a lot to me, that that was a considered decision that she made. You know, so I've I mean, I've been so intrigued to want to sit with you, you know, and I'm you know, I'm team Blake, man. But now now is the moment for you to give yourself grace. Now is the moment to do what Amy's always wanted you to do. And that is to live your life to the fullest. Yeah.

2:12:16To love, to allow yourself to be loved. Yeah. And to your point, to help as many people as possible. Yeah. This is it. You know, this is it. There is a final question that everyone gets. You ready for it? Yeah. Is it the same question for everyone? Same question for everyone. All right. Okay. This question is, if you think through all of the conversations you've had throughout your life, Yeah. Which one stands out to you as the most memorable? So who was it with and what did you learn? Let me think about this. You see, I've had some real, as I said, humbling moments in my life. and I think when I first met people in recovery who basically told me a similar version of what you said as in to allow yourself a bit of grace there, the minute I started to be able to allow responsibility to be there but to also to also live with myself so that I wasn't feeding back into that would probably be the most important conversation in my life so with with with some of my very best friends that I've met in rehabs okay some of the people that I've been with some people that had nothing and were the most desperately sad people you could ever imagine in terms of their life and what they'd been through um people i was i was sat talking to them in groups and i was trying to say about my problems and you realize sometimes that so those types of things were always good for me to to understand yes my my putting my hands up and taking responsibility brought me to where i can now put my hands up and say i'm okay with myself i know what i'm about and i know that like you said I'm worth being clean.

2:14:29I'm worth being sober. Yes. And I'm happy being clean and sober. Yes. Yes. It looks good on you. Thank you so much. Yeah. It looks good on you. Thank you. Yeah. Blake. Yeah. So that was heavy. Since day one, I've been a fan of Amy Winehouse when I heard about her. But I wasn't necessarily in tuned with her personal life. Before the research, if you were just to survey me and ask me, what's my opinion on Blake, I would have probably said negative. But after sitting with him, my heart goes out to him. You know, Blake is someone who has gone through hell. And I think that when people hear that, the immediate response may be, but what about Amy?

2:15:20But I think that we have to look at each person individually. And if I just look at his life, because this is his life, he's gone through hell. And at what point do we give him grace? I think what this conversation allowed Blake to do was to specifically clarify how he felt towards Amy and his love for Amy. My rock bottom in the Backstreet Boys, I was drinking on stage. So I was ready to go. The minute I walked off stage, like straight to the bar. Backstreet's back, all right. I just loved the crowd. I'll never forget they had shut down Times Square for about six blocks. A sea of people. Psychologically, truly, like how does that impact you?

2:16:13God. Was it Lou Perlman? Lou was the entrepreneur that put this whole thing together, but we didn't read the fine print. Boy band promoter turned federal prisoner. Blue Promet sentenced to day for the chronic banks and investors out of a money,$300 million. We wanted simply to ask one word, one question. Why? But I flew home, smelled like a bar, hadn't slept, went to give my youngest a hug. And she's like, you don't smell like my dad. Alex is who I've always been. AJ is a character in a band. It's nice to know that now each of us really, truly has a voice to speak up. And of course, we've had our moments where it gets physical or it's a full screaming match.

2:17:00You all have fought physically. Yeah. Let's talk about it. Um...

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