ArrDee on Hidden Addiction and Becoming A Dad

33:48The sixth day, America, I picked up on it and I was seeing like all like the corny like dances being done to it and like the frat boys doing it. Mia Khalifa done a TikTok to it. Like, so at this point, I'm losing my mind and I still don't at this point really understand TikTok. My label had made me make an account and I was telling them like, this app's just going to be some phase. Obviously, I was wrong. No one could use this. But how does that then change your career? Well, obviously it just goes absolutely bonkers. We had to restructure the whole plan. And at the same time of like body being done, we were going studio.

34:28And again, my manager at the time is very honest. None of the songs were quite the right ones. So we were, I recorded like three or four in this one session with a producer engineer called Jojo. And my manager had fell asleep, which is never a good sign in a studio session. and then I'd put the beat on for Oliver Twist it was just a YouTube beat and the maddest thing is I wrote Oliver Twist the day you know that I told you about that notification when 150 coming I wrote Oliver Twist that day and I was on FaceTime to my brethren when the money landed and I was on FaceTime to him I was playing Call of Duty in my room and I was going through YouTube beats I weren't like I weren't properly playing it just like you know like you're playing online with your friends like he's in a lobby and I'm quitting and whatever I was like AFK so I'm scrolling through beats and so I wrote the hook and the verse or some of the first verse while on FaceTime to my mate.

35:19So I've got like Call of Duty on, he's there, money's just landed, beat's playing, the most ADHD environment ever. That is, that is, that is. And then, yeah, then I realised this is sick. I was like, I'm going to end it. I'm going to throw myself into this. So then wrote the rest of that song. So the other way, I didn't know how good it was. So I'm recording all these other ones that I believed were better. And then played the beat. I said the first line, I just wanted some more, Oliver Twist, because before I record, I wrapped the song to, I've got a couple of pals in the studio and that with me and the engineer, obviously.

35:48And my manager on my life sat up like the undertaker, like was fast asleep in his chair, like, and then heard me say that line, sat up and was like, record that, that's the one. I have two surprises for you. Okay. If I can. Yes. Ready for this first one? Let's go, yeah. All right. I would like for you to read this. Oh, the... So Smiley Riley on the front, I can make a decent assumption as to who wrote this one. You know what's funny is something was nearly revealed to me within this moment. And I thought someone might have approached my mum. And my mum is a terrible liar. And I was in the car with her the other day.

36:33And I was like, you haven't been asked any questions about this. And she lied so well, I genuinely believed her. She was like, I don't even know what you're talking about. You asked her if she... if she had been approached by you guys or if anybody had asked her because I just had a feeling, do you know what I mean? Your mom's a legend. Can I have been? She is a legend. Dear Riley, when I was asked to write this letter, I thought, we talk so much, what can I possibly tell him that he doesn't already know? But then I thought, often I send you songs that remind me of you or our relationship, and that's other people's words.

37:08So here are mine. From the day that I knew you were coming into this world, I loved you. What I didn't know is what force you would be to reckon with. You defied all stages you were meant to be at, walking and talking before I could blink. You had this light in you that shone so brightly, my little smiley Riley. I would always say, this boy has been here before. She did used to say that a lot. I used to think, what the fuck does that even mean? But I used to say, this boy had been here before. your ability to read emotions in a room and the empathy that you radiated was and still is wondrous but i often wonder at what cost to you i hope you know what a beautiful human you have grown to be when i think back to your teen years i'm so glad that i hung on to those battle ropes no matter how hard you tried to shake them there's nothing a cheese ham chorizo and chili mayo sub can't fix right i told you i like my mom's packed lunches and i know you tell the truth no matter how mad i get slash got at things you did slash do sneaking off to essex to an essex studio at 14 i could never and still can't stay mad at you you have all this to come and i'm so grateful to be able to be part of this new chapter of life that is unfolding i've never been so proud of watching the man you were during your daughter's journey into the world.

38:41The devotion, support and the way you advocated for your love, your baby's mummy was beautiful. It gave me a glimpse of the dad that you are going to be. I always think it's a funny statement when people say about your music career, you must be so proud of him because you are doing what you always wanted to do from the age of five and your first karaoke machine what 50 cuffs which is a line from the oliver twist i well the line is what 50 cuffs but i used to say because i couldn't quite get my words out what 50 cuffs and that was one of the songs i used to perform i do anything that was that was that um what i am proud of is your tenacity your belief in yourself and your work ethic something i know you will pour into your daughter if i can give you one piece of advice it's not about parenting hacks or how to raise her it's simply listen to the little things because if you listen to the little things she'll tell you the big things even if the big things make you want to explode inside and so thank you for always trusting me with the little things i will love you as long as the stars are above you please don't ever feel like you're less than perfect even if you do start to dress and dance a bit like your dad

40:03Amazing Just perfect Absolutely perfect How's it feel to get that from your mom? Yeah I don't really know what to do with myself now I feel childlike a little bit Do you know what I mean? Like I've just been sung Like the first praises that I got sung when I performed for the first time Is how I feel reading that letter So it's obviously making me a little bit fidgety as well Yeah I could see Your body language has changed Yeah But while there's This, I think some people say it's uneasy, but to me, it is like you've gone back to that little boy. Yeah, and he's getting that approval that he always thought he needed elsewhere, that he always had right there the whole time.

40:54I'm working on a great initiative with ID Mobile and Mental Health UK. Science tells us that hearing a voice over a call can lower our stress, boost our mood, and even help us to rebuild connections. So they're asking you to ditch the text and make it a call instead. I'm going to admit something to you. I'm a chronic texter. I'm the worst person in the world to front this. You're not going to listen to me. Why would you? But you might listen to someone you know. So I had an idea. flow with me on this. For the next few weeks, instead of ads with me in them, I'm giving up this seat right here to those people who've been waiting for you to phone them.

41:37And for the next few episodes, you'll be hearing from them instead of me. So these folks will have just one ask. Ditch the text and make it a call.

41:51Hello? I've got to take this.

42:00Hey there, I just want to share a content warning. This episode includes discussion of addiction. If you or someone you know needs support, we've included resources in the show notes. Please take care while watching. So Oliver Twist, here's the thing that I'm most interested about that is that you said that when you were a young boy, you would perform Oliver Twist. Mad, isn't it? Like the most full circle moment ever. So again, at this point, I'm like, I am the oracle. Like the world is revolving around me. Like what I command is coming into my life. Do you know what I'm saying? Like that's the way I'm feeling at that time.

42:42Like it's almost like a God complex a little bit. Do you know what I'm saying? Exactly. So this is where I wanted to go because you're still what? You're 19? Yeah, just turned 19 now. Yeah, you just turned 19. I'm bearing in mind as well. This is what I say to people a lot. And it's something that eventually made me, like, ended up in a dark place at some point and it was hard to navigate. Because I'd turned 18 in lockdown. All of this happened. Even body was, like, still kind of locked down. Like, the world hadn't gone back to normal. By the time clubs and just public spaces were open again, I never experienced the world in adulthood as somebody who wasn't somebody.

43:20Do you know what I mean? I've never queued up for a club. I've never attended a club as like a, I wouldn't say a normal person, because obviously I am a normal person, but do you know what I mean? It's like, it's been bottles, and I haven't had the feeling of being turned away, or like, do you know what I'm saying? I didn't get to experience none of that. Right, it's been VIP. And obviously I'm not getting my little violin up, because it was a blessing, do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, but no, no, but I think it's all interesting. And especially too, is right around that time, 18, 19, you're trying to figure out your identity.

43:48Yeah. Who are you? But then your album comes. yes alright so in the album number two on the UK album chart yeah right crazy it's mad it stayed in the charts for 33 weeks as well because a lot of artists will get like a chart position and then it will fly out the next week it stayed in the charts for 33 weeks that's over half a year wild toot my own horn a little bit yeah I mean be proud of that be proud of that yeah I mean it's just success after success after success All right. So now what when you reflect back in that period, what was the highest high for you? What was the moment that just still it feels surreal?

44:30It could be performing at a festival somewhere. It could be meeting someone who you never thought you would meet. But what's what's what's the surreal moment? It was all so fast. I don't know if I could pin it to one moment. There's a few. So like buying my mom. My mom wanted my mom had a mini, but it was an old mini. and my mom's favorite car, dream car, has always been a Mini. And so her partner, who's now her husband, bought her the one she had. I kind of went off to him and bought her a brand new Mini. That made her cry. That was a surreal moment. So then Artie, what about, what's then the darkest period?

45:05Because with light comes shade. Yeah.

45:11I don't necessarily know if I would have known at the time it was the darkest period, but with all of this, that wasn't the solution. like there's still something I'm yearning for I'm still like problematic I'm still constantly trying to numb myself you have to remember like I said to you the first time I've tried any substances of any form was like 12 by the time I'm 15 like me and my mates are getting pissed all the time like and we're all problematic kids you know I'm saying I now know that it was a confusing time because it didn't make me sad I wouldn't say like my darkest point was also my highest point but I wouldn't say to you any of that period was my highest point I would say I was super super numb because it was like I was not capping what I was rapping we was rockstar living I was we was doing a lot like the video shoot I've never like I never really dove into kind of my habits or like how bad it eventually got but I mean I suppose here's the place to do Yeah, I mean, I think what's so helpful about this is that looking at the image, I wouldn't know that you were entirely numb.

46:21Nah, of course not. And I could turn it on like that. So the Oliver Twist music video, we shot in two parts. And so for the first day, we'd done like the tattoo shop scene, the scene of me on the i360, the red jacket with my mates. and throughout the whole day we was drinking i'm doing balloons i'm doing whatever else during the video shoot and i'm doing this at work which and it's it's normalized this is my first like proper high production video shoot and again part of my thing not even just as a brand but as like a person my whole thing was like no one can out drink me no one can out party me and again that's it's what my old man used to say to me like when i was a kid and we used to have a few drinks or get up to whatever he was like he'd be like when you want to shut out a title come for it So on that shoot though, you're saying that you drank the whole time?

47:08The whole time. I'm off. By the end of it, that tattoo scene of me, I'm tattooing Adeola. This is obviously after the body line has gone off. She's in the shop. Yeah, I'm pissed at my head. But in that scene, when I look back at it, you can see it in my eyes as well. I've done, because in the video shoot, I keep swigging a bottle, which they wanted, but they told me, yo, don't actually sip it. And I'm like, what? I'd get annoyed at people for saying shit like that to me. what you think to my fans i'm gonna fake the lifestyle like and then the next day so we had to do a pickup shoot half the video was done second day okay um i'd gone out the night before um and was doing i'll let i'll let people draw their conclusions i'm clubbing and drinking girls pies um i've ended up back at some random uni uni gaff um i've never spoken about any of this before but it feels weird for me to speak about because in that time this was a big part of my life that we quite intentionally hid like because the cheeky fun hey the life of the party is less endearing if you were to see the full extent of it and we were aware of that and so we we kind of hid it even like slightly from my label so forgive me if I like stutter a bit because I'm not I'm not used to talking about it you know what I'm saying and I remember my check in the time fuck and I was ignoring my manager my plan was to not turn up to this and this is this is the start of my career I'm doing this already and it's like I look back like how could you be so almost self-destructive and detrimental to something that you wanted and worked so hard for for so long we got in the car and I'm saying to my manager you can't take me to the video shoot I'm not doing it and he's like this is your own doing and they have spent money and this is you are too early in this signing and in this relation and he was 100 right i don't think he was like forcing me or like exploit it he was saying like this is your your own doing and we what do you want us to do everybody's there right so you're gonna have to go down and oh at least again i'm an adult you know what i'm saying i'm acting like a little boy at this point my tail to it no i can't so i'm absolutely finished I haven't slept for like, what's it, over 24 hours now.

49:27So I've gone out at 10 o 'clock at night. It's now like one o 'clock in the afternoon the next day. I'm still going to keep myself going. I'm drinking still and I'm doing whatever else. But as soon as there's that action, the smile was on. You pop it. The eyes were wide open. Like, I don't think you would watch that video and could tell that on one half of the shoot day, I hadn't slept. It's sad for me to say, but some of those moments where I'm supposed to be so, so up I'm not down but I'm not really up either like I'm basically just not always pissed up but even when I'm not pissed up I'm I am in autopilot mode like I'm very detached because my my whole character or essence that I'm selling even though it is me it's a role that I'm playing and have developed from a young wanting something child and I was constantly like escaping myself as a person who like had all these feelings and like undealt with mentalities and problems try venting to let's say like a pal that you grew up with who is working on site bricklaying Monday to Friday and try to like vent your pain to them and see how they react and then see if you'll ever do it again because you don't.

50:46You're like, well, it's falling on deaf ears. I'm still struggling to make ends meet and I'd swap with you in a heartbeat type shit. Do you know what I mean? So then you stop doing that. Like, why would I then be vulnerable? Because you start to feel guilty for feeling shit still. It's like, why do I still feel shit? Do you know what I mean? When you keep that in, opposed to venting it to someone. What does that do to you?

51:17I had this weird complex where it's like, I said to you earlier, like, I hate sympathy. And then I'm feeling sorry for myself. And then I'm angry at myself. I'm feeling sorry at myself. But the solution to all of it was always drink, drugs, and partying. The celebratory drink, drugs, and partying. that I feel like shit so I'm going to go blow off steam, drink drugs and party in and yeah so again it just led to more numbing. Do you believe you had an addiction? 100 % 100 % and I've always been very careful or wary of speaking on this because I didn't want to be the person that touches and all of this and then still carries on doing it so just for like context me not being drunk from I'll hand on whatever else from January to what is it now nearly April that's the longest I've been sober since I was 12 years old like which is a long time that's profound especially now having a kid that makes me sad like and I said to my mum and there's I'm sure we'll touch on them like there were loads of times where my mum was super worried about me because like I say with all of those highs and everything like you say like me having that God complex hit after hit after hit and Australia tour Europe tour and all these tours I was doing craziness.

52:32I was doing, again, like what I thought rock stars did. And it was like trashing hotel rooms and having people, like stupid amounts of people back for after parties. And like, again, just doing everything I thought I should be doing. And then you have like an industry low where maybe a song doesn't connect. It's not hit after hit after hit forever. You have the industry is waves and I'm aware of that now. But when you come into an industry so clean off the bat, like nothing went wrong even a little moment like I remember a song of mine Hello Mate went this is a summer record we'd done but it went number 30 in the charts amazing that's a that's a good outcome wasn't for me though I was absolutely like no like that's not it I've gone number one number five number four like Flowers was in the charts so I had Ed Sheeran Adele, Elton John, they were the people I was surrounded by.

53:28It's a next level. Good company, isn't it? It's a next level. It's a good company. You know, then, can you address this, if you're willing to talk about this, is you had so many hits back to back to back that there were industry plant accusations. Yeah. You know, and I want to, so we found, so Complex Magazine, they were talking about what an industry plan is because people will you know debate over the definition so complex at an industry plan is an artist whose success comes from their music industry connections rather than their artistic merit or genuine interest from fans so this could include labels using paid social posts in manufacturing viral trends yeah were you an industry plan absolutely not i it makes me laugh how could i have been i'm the white rapper from brighton you can't like that that has to be received well otherwise it doesn't go you can pump 10 million quid into that from the jump if i'd have been pumped like that from the jump it wouldn't have worked because you have to have that validation especially i believe anyway in rap and hip-hop you like you have to earn your right because it's not about like especially I think the term industry plant doesn't exist anymore full stop today even for pop acts if you look at like I call it like the Simon Cowell method of like taking different people and plant it like because of social media and because of algorithms and stuff it just doesn't work like the even how label structures work nowadays that you get signed and they'll sign you for however much and whatever it's still your job to get their record off the ground i have to do the tiktok the comments have to engage in it people real life human beings have to use the sound like you can't you can't inauthentically do that do you know what i mean it's one of those where um every i think uh not every but many of the artists that i've talked to who have had extreme success in a short period of time people will say industry plant i remember when uh youngblood sitting right here yeah uh and there were accusations industry plant and what he was trying to underscore was how much pre-work yeah you just don't see it yes and then also an aspect that we haven't talked about specifically but you've mentioned a few times you're like and i'm a white rapper i mean let's talk about being a white rapper yeah in the industry it was a weird one i'm also not blind to like I think I've always put it as it's a little bit harder to get people to be interested at first as a white rapper because it's not typically a white space and then especially like I was very aware of the fact that I was And also my lyrical content and what I was rapping about was obviously it's not like not just white people party, but it was more typically that world.

56:28I'm talking about drugs and parties and turning up and lit. And obviously everybody does that, but how I was portraying it felt very white with no better terms to put it. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. Yes. and so I was aware of that as well and some people didn't like that and it's completely understandable do you know I mean especially when rap and hip-hop and the culture itself the essence is essentially how it started was a voice for those who wanted their stories to be heard and like you go back to like Mobb Deep and all that kind of stuff that's where I say like that like the essence of hip-hop and obviously this is different because we're in UK and it's it's an offspring of grime that we're doing and it's drill now and it's it's obviously all evolved so So, yeah, there was a lot of awareness.

57:14And I'm also aware that once it went, in terms of how these labels view it, and I'm not saying this is right, by the way, either, but how they view it as a business is like, okay, well, he's a UK artist and rap is what's cool. And it's made cool by the culture. And now this white guy is a face that more, there are more white people in the UK than there are any other ethnicity. Do you know what I'm saying? And so their dollar signs in their eyes start going ka-ching because people are drawn to what they can relate to. Do you know what I'm saying? And so there's definitely an unfair benefit in that.

57:58And so I always tried to like, it's a weird complex. I always tried to make sure that people knew I was aware. So then do you feel like you were used in part by the industry because you were white? In terms of what? Like other artists or? Yeah. So in terms of rap music, right? Because I think this to me, this is such a fascinating topic because what I'm understanding from you is that you came out with these very vulnerable raps. Yeah Very Story It was All storytelling And I'm with you I mean I'm from New York I'm from The origins Of hip hop That's the essence Do you know what I'm saying That's the essence It was It was as we used to say Like it was the CNN Of the streets Yes It was saying exactly What was happening What was going on Yeah Yeah And it wasn't It didn't start a party Like It did not Like Yeah that come about I believe more like Dipset and like The locks and that That was when rap started changing a little bit.

59:08That era. It definitely changed. And I would say even preceding that a little bit, you know, it had started to change. But it started from, yes, a very, this is the struggle. This is our struggle. And this is our struggle as a black culture. This is our struggle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And so for you to say that, you know what, the record company saw me and they were like, you know what, because I'm white, they could use me to reach these fans who are predominantly white, and I could speak to it. And on top of it, I'm not going to, they don't want you to speak about the struggle, your struggle coming up.

59:47They want you to speak about the party lifestyle, popping pills, et cetera. Yeah. So then that being said, do you feel like literally they used you because you are white? I don't know. I don't think necessarily the label or the record label industry used me because that was me. They didn't instruct me to make that kind of music. That was the music I was making, do you know what I'm saying? And especially at that time, I hadn't even played any of the labels, any of the deep pain stuff because even from a management level and just people around me level, it was very clear that it didn't quite connect with who I am as a person, even though I have that side to me And I believe that as an artist, as time goes on, you unveil layers of your artistry.

1:00:34And so I have revealed like in later songs, you know what I mean? But it's like you have a main brand. It's like McDonald's sell the Big Mac. And then obviously they have other stuff and there's fries and da da da da. But there has to be the brand because I am, as RD, I'm a brand as well as I'm a person. And so there has to be structure to that. I would say that using, there might have been like me feeling like being used by certain like artists or like being put on certain records to sell to a demographic that maybe that artist didn't initially sell to. Do you know what I mean? Like that weren't being taken to as much.

1:01:20but not yeah I don't I don't think so much like the industry I don't know I don't know yeah I feel like it's it's a tough it's a it's a it's a tough topic and even before you came in here what I didn't realize was how grounded you were in your um you know in your lyricism in your vulnerabilities early on. I thought it was party, party, party right out the gate. All the way. But what I see is that's not what it was. No, not at all. And I also see that you, it was a performative party for all of these reasons. Your father trying to, you know, trying to, you know, trying to impress others in order to get the attention.

1:02:08Constantly. And I'm like that now. Like, even in rooms I go into, even within, weirdly, like, within this conversation, like I haven't I'm not sitting there saying consciously or intentionally I've tried to impress you but I know what you do I know that you are you dive into psychology and you dive into minds and so within this conversation I have flexed my capability to be able to dive into my own mind and I'm still aware of that and so and then but it can if I think about it too much it will snowball because it's like I'm constantly aware but I'm still doing it so then is it a choice or is it something that's just second nature to me in in everything i do i don't know yes i mean so yes yes so then ultimately i think what it boils down to is like if you think about you at your essence then who isrd yeah at your core who are you

1:03:01hi i'm kim and this is for you just my lovely brother welcome to id mobile please leave your message after the tone. You know it was my New Year's resolution a couple of years ago to text you once a week. I think we should level it up now. We should take it to the next stage and we should pick up the phone even if it's to commiserate about Arsenal. I love it when we're watching an Arsenal match together because I can see all your like emotions but even if we're not together you can always pick up the phone so I can like hear the heartbreak in your voice. mum and um and treat me like i'm a 32 year old child and like to know where i am at all times and track me on find my friends we don't need to go that far with you but just a little check-in once in a while would be lovely maybe like on the way to work on the way home from work and then we get like a quiet moment last time we spoke on the phone was for your son's birthday but i wasn't really chatting to you i was chatting to him the conversation was probably about about 10 minutes and of that I think I spoke to you for about one minute.

1:04:07I know having a kid your life is very busy but I'm sure we can make time for each other.

1:04:15How do you think a call would change the relationship with your brother? I don't know how different you are from your sibling. Very. Very yeah. Yeah. It's nice to have a different perspective but just be silly with each other over the phone. My brother's very like routine led right but I'm very like loosey-goosey I see it I see it but like it's nice as well like he will remind me sometimes I need to slow down yes and I'll remind him that maybe you can be a bit more spontaneous right yes when you said that I was thinking to myself has there been a time where I felt heavy or distraught after talking to my brother never there you go yeah I feel lighter he's always teaching me about something that I have no idea about that ends up making my life better.

1:05:01It's really cool. I feel like I should call him. I've inspired you. We are in partnership with ID Mobile and Mental Health UK. We want you to ditch the text, right? In my conversation here with Kim, what I've learned is you should just get silly. And you could only do that if you make it a call.

1:05:27you alluded to your father and you were talking about like i'll one-up you and you said and then there's a point where i reached with my father where i was where and i felt like you were going to say where i one-upped him yeah and not i mean i've always wrongfully or rightfully i've always pinned it on my dad was just like i've always sought after attention especially like male attention and male older attention and like filling this hole of like okay that's that's the male figure we're gonna look up to for the next three weeks or this season or whatever it is it's like the first time I met him was on a holiday in Cyprus when I was like nine or ten can't remember the age and were you aware that you were going to meet him no I don't even know if my mom knew he was gonna be there he he does he's been a man of many things but he um at the time he was doing something called timeshare and I don't know if we I don't think we'd plan to go over there to meet him.

1:06:21I think he happened to be in a resort. And my nan was like. That's your dad. Yeah, yeah. And so, but so there was, and then that was never structured. So like the next time I see him was when I was 13 or whatever. But no, no, but I mean, but let's, let's talk about it. Cause, cause you're, you're nine. So you're nine, you're on holiday. Yeah. It's, it's you, your nan, your mom. I'd have to, maybe my mom did go over for us to see him. As far as I'm aware, it was sheer potluck that he happened to be on the resort. but I don't know. All right. You'd have to ask her. But from your perspective, your nan was like, that's your dad.

1:06:56Yeah. And I always remember my nan being a prominent figure in my life. I was like, you are so much like your old man. I've got to have her voice in my head. Anytime I say to someone that I was told it, it's my nan's voice that I think of. Okay. So your nan, your nan tells you, there's your father right there on the resort. So what's going on for you in that moment? and then how does that that was the first thing that you two say to each other i don't remember the first thing we said to each other i remember the first thing i've done there was like i was in the swimming pool and jumped out and gave him a big hug but also the first feeling i thought of even when you're just saying it was being filled with pure fear and i don't know why there wasn't like a relief of ah there's my dad like it was a foreign concept so it was i i assume my body went into a bit of like fight or flight mode you know i mean and like the first conversation i remember having is he was showing me two birds one was called cat and one was called christina i don't know how much you're gonna want me to talk about this but it's cool because i've told him what the first conversation you have with him yeah the first one i remember probably isn't what i'm saying yeah but it was it was made very clear to me that you are not to mention cat in front of Christina and you are not to mention Christina in front of Kat and in result of that I got uh Assassin's Creed for the DS which is the game I wanted it's obviously a 15 it's or it might be an 18 Assassin's Creed for the DS and Guitar Hero and my dad chose Guitar Hero I chose Assassin's Creed um so I mean in essence he bribed you yes he bribes you with video games Yeah, I don't think, I don't remember it like that.

1:08:45I remember it as like, I wasn't going to do it anyway because my dad told me so. And this is the first moment for me. This guy that I just met, this figure, I mean, again, my old man is a madman, but he has a huge character and presence. And even within the country of Cyprus, people that are recognising him, he's the governor, isn't it? Well, that's how I felt anyway, and that's how I come across. And so this guy was Superman now. Like, just almost starstruck by him. And that later developed kind of every time I linked him. But, yeah, I remember going back to my mum and I had these two games and she was kicking off.

1:09:28I remember hearing them, not argue, but she's pointing at Assassin's Creed. It's obviously the clues in the name. Like, you're assassinating people. She's like, do you think that's appropriate? and obviously he's laughing and he's like and he took the rap and said well which one did he want and he was like well yeah he wanted Guitar Hero I thought I'd get him that one and I remember the feeling of like this guy's cool as fuck like because I wanted that game and I knew I wasn't allowed that game and I'd said I wasn't allowed that game and he was like yeah go on have it and took the rap for it do you know what I'm saying I see it I see it so that I mean that is I think a very interesting first interaction first encounter with your father.

1:10:09I mean, from the fear to immediately hugging to then spending the night with him and then him basically, you know, presenting all of that. When you reflect on that, because you've had a lot of years to think about that. Yeah. Do you feel like you got what you needed from him in that early interaction? I don't know, because it's always like, or the grass could be greener on other sides or um but did you did you get what you need you know because and this this is the reason why i push on this is that um already i mean we've just met but already i could tell you're stoic in that you don't want anyone to feel any bit of shame for you yeah i hate it i say to my mom all the time like i cannot deal very well with sympathy like I hate people feeling sorry for it's not my thing that's why I'm always like I said to you when we first got here like I'm I'm I've always been super comfortable with these open vulnerable conversations because if I sat here like this like you know and how does that feel like I remember I was put through loads of different like therapy people and like we have something over here called cams in the UK where it's like child psychology like there'd be people I'd go see I hated all of them because they'd speak to you really softly and like and they'd try and take you down this path and I used to I mean I was a troubled kid but I used to intentionally I'd know the path they would try to take me down and take them down this road and then they'd realise that I was having them on and that would be when I exploded because I can see what you're trying to do and you're pissing me off I don't want to I don't want to be here full stop I've been forced to be here and you don't know me so like yes I've never been good at dealing with that I can see it I can see it.

1:11:58Right. But I think the challenge in this is that because this is all about you and us being able to step inside of how you were thinking and feeling. Yeah. I'm just wondering if you meet your like I'm trying to put myself in your shoes. If I'm meeting my father for the first time. Do I do I think I got what I need? What I needed? What you need. Probably not. I definitely didn't feel like that at that time. at the time right just that encounter was more than what i needed i didn't know it was what i was missing it's like the only way i can describe it is like as a child you have this massive hole in your kind of heart or head or like weird distant memory that you don't really know and you have no idea what it is and then it's like riley as a child is a big jigsaw puzzle and there's there's like four jigsaw pieces missing and meeting this man is like now in hindsight it's like one jigsaw puzzle that me as a child i've duplicated so i've made him all four and it's not been put in but i can see i can see the piece now yes i mean it's i'm with you i'm with you so so then how does the relationship with just your father, how does that then evolve over time?

1:13:24Yeah, I mean, it was like, obviously after that point, I don't really know like the intervals or what the ages were. A lot of it's a blur, but like throughout my childhood, I was told more and more kind of the story. My first impression was always like, he just up and left. Do you know what I mean? Like that enough and da-da-da. And he's got, how many kids has he got? Five So I've got And so Like one lives in Brighton The other one's One's in Cyprus Another one No two live in Brighton They're dotted about Everywhere But He was How do I put it He was a bit of a naughty guy Right let's say Yeah People can connect those dots However if I didn't want to connect those dots I'm not gonna Start incriminating Or Or Going into major detail of that But Essentially he He had, or kind, he made a choice.

1:14:16He could have been more of a man and maybe dealt with certain issues or problems that were going on or obtained some kind of money. I don't know how he would have fixed it. To be honest, I might give him his dues and that. The best solution in terms of the safety for, like, my mum and me and my brother, he had to leave the country. So he didn't just leave and walk out with my mum and stayed in England. He'd fled. Only up until really recently, he doesn't come Brighton a lot because there's a lot of history for him here. But when we did see him and he would take us to like the park or whatever, this would be like, there'll be years in between.

1:14:45It wasn't like, okay, now that you've met your dad, I always, I have a conversation with my mom about this recently. Like it wasn't now that you've met your dad, you're going to see him every other week. He's going to come. And I always say to my mom, that probably would have helped a little bit with the feeling of like this constant yearning for attention. Cause if anything, I always say meeting him and then disappearing for however long until you decide it's fine. You come back. was like what can I what can I do then how can I get this attention from this guy because also when I'm with him I'm so idolising him it's euphoric man and I feel I believe all majority of young men probably look at their dads that way no matter what it is your dad does but especially when you're rolling around Brighton with him and there are certain characters that seem a bit you know and they're like hey what do you know what I'm saying and things like I remember we walked past one chip shop one time and there was a guy a huge guy having a mad row with someone I think that person had owed this huge guy money and he picked him up and put him through you know like when you like like a burger shop they have like the window he'd thrown him through the window and so my dad had like stopped and like moved back and he put all this window glass everywhere I'm super shitting myself I've never done anything like this and then the guy who'd done it said my dad was like yo what you saying and he's like yeah how you been these are my boys and now I'm like being introduced to this guy that's just putting these up and you're looking like wow my dad this is just mad cool to me like none obviously looking back like not loads of it is great but also I'm not like resentful like that was wrong he shouldn't do this I don't have that viewpoint maybe I would like I don't know yeah I just I'm a big believer like everything happens for a reason and this is my story I'm not a big believer in like resenting what made you into who you are do you know what I mean but I get it though I mean you're You viewed your dad as your superhero.

1:16:35Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think most boys do anyway, but this added mystery of like, well, what is it that he does? And my mom allowed all that. Like, she was never, your dad's a bad person. She never slated him off. The stories that I eventually got told over time were via him that were then verified by her. But she never, my mom's a great person. I think she allowed for us to meet him for who he was. And so I didn't have any like, there's literally zero conception of him. at all. Do you know what I mean? Yes. Before that point. Yes. You know, I'm willing to bet that, but you'll have to ask your mom that she intentionally brought you to that resort.

1:17:14Yeah. I don't know. I feel like maybe she knew he was in Cyprus. I don't know if he was meant to be there that day, but I'd have to ask her. I'm pretty sure we didn't know he was going to be there. Yeah. As far as I'm aware. Because also, my mom, at this point, when I'm 9, 10, she's with um her fella um not at the time they're together now um so i don't know how that dynamic would have worked or if they'd have planned to do that knowing that he was there and stuff he was like my mom had a boyfriend from i don't know when they started seeing each other i've been i remember meeting for the first time around this time like that's my first kind of early memory of him but he's in the army so he was around like sometimes he'd be gone for months at a time if He was there.

1:18:00He was only there for a weekend, and then he had to go back to base, and that was their relationship for, like, only recently since he's been discharged, which is, like, 14 years, whatever it is. That's incredible. Yeah. That's incredible. So then the relationship with your father, it sounds like, was just like that. It was like he would pop in, be in your life a little bit, pop out, and you would wonder, where is he? Yeah, and just, like, it was this... attention that I yearn for so much. And then especially because when he was here, this isn't any disrespect on knocking to my brother, but like me and my dad get along very well.

1:18:42And it probably stems from because I was always told you're so much like him. I played into that. And then because of the kind of geezer he is, he's like a proud, yeah, like that's my boy. Like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I would imitate him and I would see that he liked that. Do you know what I mean? That made him proud. I was like his little prodigy. Down to everything. In primary school now, I've got three birds on the go. I'm telling him, I know my dad's laughing. Like, obviously he's still kind of saying, ah, no, you shouldn't do that. But I can see he doesn't mean it because he's smiling like a chest-shaped cat while he's saying, no, I shouldn't do that.

1:19:14Do you know what I mean? Yes. Do you think your father then ended up having the biggest influence on your life as a young boy? One million percent. Even till now. I remember one of the times he calmed down. he is fond of alcohol and other things and so being around that like when you me and my brother are gonna stay in a hotel with him one time um I was how was I think I think I was in primary school at year six and my brother was two years older um what year is that year eight and looking back now I didn't quite know what the other substances were I can see what it was on now do you know what I'm saying but he'd had a few and then done that and we were in this hotel in in Brighton Station the Ibis Hotel and he was back and forth and at the bar and we would stay in in the hotel room while he was down there drinking which is obviously unfortunate because we don't get to spend loads of time with him do you know what I'm saying so like then he's come back up and where he's drunk and he's got a lot of health problems due to lifestyle choices and stuff and so he was in a really bad way and allegedly at the time but that's funny as well because sometimes he exaggerates or again he does things to put on a show and like wear it as a cape but he had come in and was all over the place and then fell to the floor and then as far as me and my brother were aware whether he was faking it or not I don't know but his heart stopped and he wasn't breathing oh well and so my brother i remember my brother sobbing his eyes out i remember being super frozen like not crying not even really like sad and i remember like like obviously i'm i'm 12 so i'm like attempting to do some form of cpr and like get him up and like slapping his face and like shaking him and then like he'd like sat up and like took a breath and was like like what what happened and he was like again you know when someone's drunk and they're like they're talking about things that like they've obviously had a conversation in their head like it's not really making sense to me what he's saying so that's scary as well because you just like even know if you're talking to me or like again now I just know he was super inebriated you know I mean and then like I remember trying to like roll him over or whatever and then I remember the next day he was fine and that was kind of the start of like oh you know you might not um he would say to my brother in front of me like you might not see me for a bit like because Riley's gonna obviously explain to her mom what happened and then I'll be like no no no I'm not and he's like no you are and it's fine and then my brother will be like no like don't like because if we're not gonna see like there was another time so so then in that moment then you had to decide if you're gonna keep that yeah I didn't tell my mom that I think I only told my mom that like a few years ago wow so you so you held that to protect your father yeah yeah and that's and it seems like Like that was the relationship.

1:22:12You protected him. Yeah. And my mama said that to me all the time. I remember there's a lot of times when I was a teenager where she used to be like, you know, he's your dad and not the other way around. Yeah. And I'd get annoyed because also my whole thing, like I had such a strong relationship with my mom. When I come into like late primary school and a teenager, it becomes very common for someone to, you know, like your mom. And none of that ever offended me. But if anybody spoke about my old man On any level Especially now that I'm a teenager 13, 14 Any of my uncles do it Anyone around me In close family People that know him No one can't cunt off Superman To me Especially because now In my head I'm his little mini me Do you know what I mean?

1:22:54So we are one Do you know what I mean? And our relationship It's funny Coming away from that a little bit I say it all in hindsight now as if I don't still do it. But then I catch myself doing it all the time. It's so second nature. Do you know what I mean? Yes, yes. You know, even beyond you being his mini-me, it seems like you saw yourself through him. Yeah, like it was weird. It was like, I don't know how to explain it, of like when everybody said to me all these characteristics that I do have, that I genuinely did have before I met him, it was weird to meet a guy that I agreed I was so much like.

1:23:31And so I think there was 50 % like, this guy is exactly like me. And then the other 50 % is like, I probably wasn't exactly like him, but I filled in the gaps of the bits that I wasn't like, I made myself like him. Do you know what I mean? And then, I mean, already now, I mean, you know what a father's love is now. For sure. Yeah. When you look back at the behavior, at least, that your father exhibited in that early time, do you feel like he showed you love yeah yeah i do i i think this is where i'm not like we'll disagree because i'm sure you don't necessarily have an opinion on it but i think love comes in all different shapes and sizes and formats and one thing i will always say about my old man not just me and my brother all of his kids even the ones that maybe he hasn't been allowed to see or like has less of a relationship with because they're not on it or whatever he fucking loves his kids and he is a problematic person with his own shit going on but i don't believe like the same way i have been problematic and hurt people or whatever that doesn't mean that i didn't love that person or do you know what i'm saying it's like i just because of whatever i had going on i had pretty shitty ways of showing it sometimes or like i wasn't showing it sometimes but it didn't mean that I didn't hold that in my heart.

1:24:56And this is why I don't hold anything in bad regard, for better or for worse. It's like that version of myself that I developed is R.D. Like that, hey, da-da-da, scene is stay over, bah-bah-bah, loud in front of a bunch of characters that I've never met and owning the room and walking into places and like I own the place and like... Yes. I always had it in me. And I believe, like I was told, you know, you're so much like your dad and blah, blah, blah, from that character before I met him. So I had it in me before I'd met him, but I still believe it comes from him. And then the extra bits that I added on top by trying to emulate him.

1:25:35Do you know what I mean? That's insightful, man. And now, you know what's interesting is, is I see that. Because it's interesting. I think I've watched now every video that you've put out. You know, I've watched everything. And to me, the person that I've seen in those videos is exactly who you just described. Like, that's probably your dad. Yeah, it's a show. And don't get, it's not a million miles away from me. Right, right. It's still... It's almost, can I say exaggerated? Exaggerated, yeah, 100%. That's like the version of show business I always remember growing up was that you put on a show.

1:26:16Do you know what I mean? I'll use Robbie Williams as an example amazing performer he doesn't walk around in his day to day life I am Robbie Williams, this is my ass that would be super strange you know what I'm saying right, that would be crazy yeah that would be wild so obviously it's an exaggerated art form that I eventually for better or for worse I started buying into I was buying what I was selling at some point and I don't want him to be hurt by this because he knows I love him dearly and our relationship is now changing where the playing field there was a couple moments when the playing field became level and one of the times was like um a father's day he was supposed to have come down and I'm with my partner and her sisters and her dad's come and there's been three times that he was meant to come and meet my partner's dad and for whatever reasons he's got himself into a pickle and not come and this had happened again this time on father's day father's day is a tough day for him because he lost his dad when he was 15 and then was homeless after that and so i'm aware of that we now have a rule where it's like let's just leave father's day because it's set up for failure a little bit but um that was one of the first times i i proper i'd had a go at him and i was like you're just i was like you're a fucking liar like just own it just say you went out and got pissed or like don't like don't try bullshit a bullshit I was like unfortunately for you I am so like you I know every single trick up your sleeve I know all the language I know the bravado I know the man behind the mask because I am that same man behind that mask kind of thing and it was it was good for our relationship like he he's never had anybody in his life i don't believe speak to him like that and it was like it was aggressive from my front and he's he's a guy that probably doesn't take bad off like that i mean so um but but but you but you're you you were able to stand up to him yeah and it was anger for it was anger for my brother and him being confused and where and where is he and like it just i just filled me with rage and so that was one of the like the first times that that Veal were kind of important and that it started to unwrap this and I still idolize him it's still something that sometimes I find myself doing by accident sometimes I do on purpose because he has so many great qualities and I know some people might watch this and have an opinion of his character and I don't want it to seem like he is just this awful bad person because he's not he loves his kids and he's done so much for me and he's always supported my career even in tunes where I'm slagging him off.

1:29:01He's the first person to share it on Facebook and he knows it's my story to tell. He's not like, you can't say this or you know what I'm saying? So I just want to put that out there. Okay, that's fair. But yeah, it started to unveil this kind of pedestal and revealed more to me about myself than him, if anything. And you made this realization win? I think it slowly happened over time. So we have that moment. That wasn't the start, but that's a key moment I remember the first time standing up against him. I remember my mom being proud of me as well and texting me saying, well done. But is this just within the last, what, two years?

1:29:36Two years, yeah. This is very recent. So you know what's so interesting? So I always look at identity is the story that we tell about ourselves, right? And normally when I say, who are you? What I'm looking for people to say is, tell me the story that you tell about yourself. And it feels like you began to truly know your identity yeah about two years ago literally it's wild like and i had felt a change in how i would be absorbed by those stories before he's the coolest thing since sliced bread and obviously i still he's still a cool guy i still love him but from being with my partner and having this new perspective it's like i almost had sympathy for him for the first time which is something that i've always hated feeling for people and for myself and what I saw was someone who had basically done the same thing as I had but through whatever he has dealt with him losing his dad when he was young and being kicked out by his mum and having to grow up and become an adult like so many obviously in a very different world because it's music and fame and whatever but it's like humanized them even more but now on a on a sympathy level and it was the first time in my life and it was quite it was i remember i was actually quite not upset by it was a weird feeling of like almost guilt because that cape had been taken off do you know what i'm saying like the mask had been the curtain and I've been pulled a little bit.

1:31:19And I know that he could feel it as well. He could see, or I could see in his eyes, that he could see in me this story. It was just a regular bullshit, funny, mad thing that happened when it's always about girls and someone being cheated on and someone being hurt and a load of drugs being taken and some mad story that has some Snatch Guy Ritchie-themed ending. You know what I'm saying? Right. And that was a super surreal moment for me because it had happened without me realizing. And so when I then went back to my partner, Osh, and kind of explained this feeling. So yeah, it was just quite a profound moment for me.

1:32:06That's a life-changing moment. Yeah, like my whole life had just been turned on its head. hey there we have conversations just like this one every week so if you haven't already hit subscribe and i'll see you for the next one the the one area that i know that we haven't talked about is that you are now independent you're an independent artist yes and it seems like you've consciously made this decision to be independent artists. Yeah. What's the reason for that? I knew that the love, not the love, because I don't want to slate the label that I was with because they're all amazing people and obviously they've all got their jobs to look after.

1:32:48But just tide change in the industry. Everybody has to move at those times. A &Rs have got to maintain their jobs. It's a really tough industry where like if you are not meeting a certain quota of delivering a certain amount of records and a couple of my records haven't connected, they can't just, they can't I have to die on this hill because I'm RD but everybody and their mum in the building doesn't have to die on the hill with me because they've got a family to feed and I know that now even though I was I'll probably if you'd have you'd have asked me at the time I'll probably would have slagged them all off but um and so all of that combined with like again all of this stuff that I hadn't really dealt with I'm going three days on the trot and my mum's having to film like the states i'm in and to show like i'm like i'm in we've got like a bar or had a bar in the house that we're no longer at but like i'd be talking to myself or talking to the walls or i'm on all sorts of drugs and especially when i found and dove into ketamine that was the numbing agent and so my thing with that was never like i would do a little bit because some people do it to get they call it wonky or like they're a bit i it mine was it was go go all the way it was like buying seven grams at a time and then it started like constantly doing it while i'm out which is a terrible look because you can see far easier when someone's on something like that rather than the other because you can't walk you can't talk your legs go so then there are videos like that coming out of me and then that gets worse and then what it stops being is like I'm going out for a little bit and kind of fronting it as like yeah I want to go out and get lit but I'm only out for a few hours now I'm going straight back home and carrying on for days at home yeah yeah at home on my own in my days for days yeah yeah in my bedroom at home like I'd have two bottles of rum at by my bedside table at night this is in the in my darkest moments two bottles of rum, three, five of packet and at least seven grams of ketamine and just on my own.

1:34:55And what a while. You know, I mean, I'm surprised you didn't die. It's wild. From that, yeah. And there's just so many times where my mom's like, come in the room or come into wherever I'm at, terrified or just super worried about me. The combination of all of that happening and my older brother going into psychosis, that was the straw that broke the donkey's back. How does that change you then? I'm filled with this super guilt because not only have I been distant from him because we're on different paths in life, but I've also had thoughts where I'd be like well you know I could try and make the relationship bond a bit better I could see him more I could bring him to shows I could bring him to studio I bring my mates to studio like I love my brother we get along so why don't I and then obviously due to the path he had taken and whatever I've gone on with him that's happened right underneath my nose we live in the same house together like how how have I missed this how's it got to that point where he's he's he's taken whatever he's taken and obviously it's put him into a drug-induced psychosis and like I remember he'd my mom had said it to me and he had come home I don't know if you've ever seen someone when they're like that but like I haven't it's terrifying like didn't look like him his eyes weren't there he wasn't making sense he was jittering he's never really been the same since and he still has it's complicated like he has sometimes he's good and it's and even when he's good he's still not the same as what he used to be and when he's having an episode or whatever it's tough and it's like I would I now have to deal with the fact that I will my brother probably won't be the same again and I don't know what the source or the reason was as to why he felt he had to take or do whatever it was he was doing and taking that led to him being like that or getting into that state and um and if I could turn back time and not have fame but and and music but have my brother be normal or not normal that sounds like a bad way to put it but like just have that relationship that i had once with my brother i would you know what i'm saying i believe you would yeah yeah i i didn't realize that they gave me chills with you talking about the guilt that you have yeah and it was something i had even before the psychosis and something that i battled with all the time yeah yeah it's tough Yeah.

1:37:52That's a lot of weight to carry. And what I also reflect on is how you described your brother as looking up to you. He's your older brother, but you were the big brother in essence. how is your mother managing her two boys because her two boys are still with her you know they're showing up differently yeah now but but how does how does she parent you both today

1:38:29um it's difficult like so with me and my brother both have a very different view of my mum and me and my brother have fallen out over it quite a few times throughout our lives again this makes me sad to say their relationship is difficult now just looking from the outside in because he's again a little bit before and since the scenario and since the psychosis not scenario but he's very um secluded doesn't really want to talk a lot um and he has his feelings about my mum or like how things were done and so she obviously still checks on him i would definitely go far enough to say it's probably a quite a one-sided relationship from my mum's side you know and that doesn't mean he doesn't i know he loves her do you know i mean yes but i think there's just there's some resentment held from him and i think some of it is due to like his brain has obviously very recently been rewired due to whatever substances and like it's it's it's too difficult to try and not only communicate with him just on a day-to-day level how are you you know what have you eaten today to then try and dive in to all that like there's a time and place for it and at this moment in our lives it's not now so but i tell you what i mean that is a difficult situation yeah and and and that's a lot for all of you to be going through in this very moment yeah um and and one is i mean i definitely appreciate the transparency i think it gives us a view as to what you are dealing with yeah what you are managing you know what's top of mind for you um and and and my wishes is that you know your brother is able to move to a place where you both can feel the love that i know that you have for each other and he and your mother are able to move to a place where they can feel the love that i know that they have for each other because it's been the three of you since the beginning from day dot so then how do you i mean now i have a totally i have a totally new perspective on you but now as you've moved into fatherhood i can see now how this completely reshapes how you show up you know not only as a father but but but but as a man in society 100 yeah yeah yeah i mean can we talk about fatherhood yeah i think before we talk about that we kind of have to go into me and my i think we have to do me and my partner first okay you notion yeah me and i okay because like you say like this reshaping my walk how i am and how i view the world it starts with her and i mean i'm sure you saw maybe didn't but on my post where like my whole life even though i've glamorized and idolized my dad there's always been a part of me that's very aware that is not how you father or parent someone yes and so on that is this where you wrote for a long time my past and my trauma was my identity yes can i read this yes yeah this is profound so you wrote this on on ig for a long time my past and My trauma was my identity.

1:42:10I held on to it as tight as I could, fighting anyone and anything that tried to change me, hurting people in the process. And this is to your child. Later, my daughter, yeah. You wrote, I promise you will never know the feeling of wondering who your dad is, where he is, or if he loves you enough. I'll show you every single day. Yeah. 100%. I believe it. I mean, my whole heart, yeah. Yeah, I believe it. so it's ocean yeah who put you on this this this path yeah because like i was saying like i was always i've always been like i'm never having kids i don't want to be a dad i've always been i've like basked in the fact that i am this bad person and is it that you also so you didn't want to be a dad did you also not want a committed relationship it doesn't that i didn't want it i didn't really think I was capable like I've never been able to hold down what's the word what it's monogamous oh yeah that's the singular one right exactly monogamy monogamous relationships and even like I can care for someone but it was always like once you were out of sight you were out of mind like I've I've hurt people you know I'm saying I'm very aware of that and sounds horrible for a long time I was also proud of that because that's who my dad was he was the top narcissist and that was super cool you know what I mean um like just like even for a reference he his nickname for me is Asmodeus Asmodeus is the son of the devil somewhere in some kind of mythology and that's like it's that's our banter that's our relationship but that's that's that's been his nickname for me throughout all my teenage years as well and i loved that that was again it's like yeah like we're bad you know i was saying like it was cool to not give a shit about no one or anything and it's so it's i look at it and it's kind of strange because my mom is so the opposite she is like the most loving open person all my mom was like the mom to all my friends growing up so yeah so so ocean she was aware of all this yeah so she she was um she'd been a friend for a long time and um kind of saw all the different states that i've been in throughout majority of my career the more i got to know her as a friend and then as our relationship developed she had been through so much and wore it very very differently to how I wore it and her outlook on why she should wear it differently I had this newfound perspective of like just through falling in love with her and not just falling in love with her but falling in love with her outlook on life it was probably one of the only ways I could have possibly have been changed because she didn't try and stall it into me in any way it was just the same way like we talked about my mum's mentality and how watching her do whatever she wanted to do made me believe I could do whatever I wanted to do it was like watching my partner and how she carries and and out of all that and how she treats people the kind of person she is I had said in that post she has a very special kind of light like about her like her energy and um so yeah when we started speaking and like when we first like dated or like gave it a go in that realm rather than just being friends I was like trust me you don't want to get wrapped I like just try and do like the whole swagger like I'm I'm so messed up like it actually kind of cringes me out when I'm saying that out loud now like and she was very like yeah cool like you know actually when now we speak about it she's like I knew you were just you'd had such a warped perception of yourself and then slowly over time And it didn't happen overnight and we've had our ups and downs because it's complicated, as I'm sure you know, love is like I found myself healing through her, which might sound a little bit codependent because it's not necessarily her job.

1:46:32Do you know what I'm saying? But it was like this new outlook. Is that did that also impact your perception of fatherhood? Yeah, for so long Even while we were still in a relationship It's something I've made clear to her Obviously I'm at the age where that's the thing you discuss Quite early in a relationship And I'd said I don't want kids And when I asked why I was like because I'll be a shit dad I don't know how to be a good dad I was aware that this father Some relationship wasn't normal And I was like well that's all I know But I also don't want to pass that on down And her answer was always like That's why you're going to be the best dad And then we had a moment And that changed all of that for me.

1:47:12We had an atopic pregnancy before this pregnancy. She was excited. And so if I'm honest, at the time, I didn't think I wanted it, but I was up for it because she was up for it. Let me just, for anyone who doesn't know, because I was not familiar with an ectopic pregnancy. So this occurs when a fertilized egg implants and grows outside the main cavity of the uterus. It's most commonly, and this is about 97 % of cases, in the fallopian tube, so known as a tubal pregnancy. It is unfortunately a non-viable pregnancy, cannot proceed normally, and poses a life-threatening risk to the parent if not treated.

1:47:56Yes. She kept saying, like, I know something's wrong, like I'm in a lot of pain. This is now eight weeks in. and so yeah we've done a few private scans and basically they can't find it so they're like well the it must be a topic because we can't see the little egg or whatever and obviously she was distraught because not only did she really want this baby but she was also kind of aware that I wasn't quite ready what it done for me that I hadn't let her know at the time was revealed to me that I was ready because even though I had all those worries the second I found out it wasn't happening my heart was broken as well and I'd said this it was actually a conversation I'd had with my dad um because I'd spoke to him and said you know I ain't ready for all this I'm not ready to hang the gloves up yet I'm like the lifestyle and all this kind of stuff and then I said like yeah I feel feel like shit and I was that there actually was a part of me that was more more excited than I thought.

1:49:00I was just so used to pretending like I don't want to evolve in life and I want to be this version of myself that I told myself, no, I don't, I don't want kids and I'm this version of them. And then like, obviously something like that will strip any kind of defense mechanism or mask, especially seeing my partner so upset. And so yeah, that had revealed that to me and I'd said that to her. And just like that, you're a dad. no well now I am yeah I mean but now I mean yeah yeah obviously it was a process that again I didn't I've said to you that I stopped I haven't drunk or I haven't been drunk I had a beer the other day for the first time we're watching a football and just had one which is a moment for me do you know I mean um but I haven't been drunk since January obviously she was she's been pregnant since august so there was still ups and downs and still a process for me to go through but i was able to again make be aware of myself and heal a little bit and like i said this is all very like raw it's all so recent so i'm not sitting here pretending like no no i am this complete man no no i can see it you you're still you're still in the battle Yeah, 100%.

1:50:20Yeah, you're still in the battle, which I applaud you for coming on to talk about being in the battle. I think we have so many guests that come on and reflect. This happened to me 10 years ago. This happened to me five years ago. You're saying this is happening to me now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a letter here. I'd like to read it to you. Okay. If I could. And then I'm going to give it to you afterwards. All right. Ready? Yeah. To my rye. Watching you become a father has been one of the most beautiful things I've ever had the privilege of experiencing. For someone who once thought they never wanted children, you've stepped into the role in a way that feels completely natural, like you were always meant for it.

1:51:07Our baby girl is so lucky to have you as her role model. You are more talented and capable than you give yourself credit for. and somehow you continue to amaze me more every single day. I see how much you carry on your shoulders, the pressure you face and yet you still show up for us without hesitation. I truly don't know what we would do without you. I don't think you fully realize the impact that you've had on my life, the way you've brought light into it when I needed it most. For that, I will always be grateful. You always remind me how strong I am and how well I carry my trauma. We've said this.

1:51:51But you forget to remind yourself of the same. You've carried your own through so much in ways most people wouldn't be able to. There have been times when others would have given up after being knocked down again and again. and it's been hard to watch, but you've pushed through it every single time and you come out the other side with strength and positivity. I don't think it's ever been easy for you. That one hits hard. I don't think it's ever been easy for you handling success and strong opinions from such a young age while also dealing with your own personal battles behind closed doors, all while providing for and caring for your family.

1:52:36When I look at where you are now and the person you've become, it's truly something that I admire, and I'm so proud of you. I'm so excited to do parenthood with you, to build a life full of memories as a family, and I feel incredibly lucky to have chosen such an amazing father for my children. Children. Dren, we've been through so much and we faced everything as a team and we've come out even stronger. Our little family is everything because of you. We love you so much. Always your girls. You know who wrote that? I do know who wrote that. You tried to get me. I nearly went. No, I tell you, I think letters are some of the most incredible instruments that we have.

1:53:29and I'm going to give this one to you. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm curious, what did you think of that letter? I mean, it's always nice to hear, and again, she always gives me, like, a new perspective because I do always tell her constantly. I especially remind her when she needs to be reminded of how strong she is, and I always kind of give her the kudos of, like, I am better because of how you wear your trauma now. And it's not something that I ever think about that, like, in turn of that, I'm also wearing mine better. And yeah, I'm a little bit lost for words because that's amazing to hear.

1:54:13I love it. I love it. So then on that note, I've got the final question for you. Everyone gets it. Yes. If you reflect back on all of the conversations you've had throughout your life, which one stands out as the most memorable? Who was it with and what did you learn? that's a difficult question one that comes to mind is a conversation I had with my mum when I said even as a and it like I think about it makes me laugh because it was quite a strong conversation to have with a child who just could have been saying something on a whim whereas like I want to be famous or I want to be a rapper I want to be a musician and a lot of parents would say oh that's amazing I'm so happy you have that goal but you need to have a backup plan or you know that's a really hard thing to achieve and I'm so happy you've got that aspiration but and there'll be a but and the conversation with my mum was and this this exact phrase was they wouldn't you better fucking give it your all like and we had we went further into that conversation again i'm like i can't be like pretty young i think either late primary school or early secondary school and that was like a realization moment for me of the one of the first times of my mom's mentality and how she tackles and views the world and i felt like it gave me a bit of power because i'd realized it it was like my mom had passed down this this power onto me and like i knew i was Fucking I was capable of it Do you know what I'm saying Yeah You know Before you came in I knew you as the rapper The white rapper from Brighton You know what I mean How do you feel this way I mean I'm sure it's not what you expected No no Not at all Not at all And I'm definitely walking away Highly impressed With your maturity Highly impressed with your ability to reflect and pull lessons.

1:56:24Very excited about your journey as a father. You seem to be fully equipped to knock this out the park. I hope so. Yeah. I mean, you definitely do. But most importantly is I love that you have gone on a journey to figure out your identity and you know precisely who you are right now. and I think you like who you are becoming. That's a great way to put it. It's the first time in my life where I would introduce myself to someone and I was proud of who I was or I thought I was proud of who I was when I was bad but it wasn't really pride. It was all just the fun and really I just didn't love myself and it's the first time I loved myself in a different way and if I was to introduce myself to someone and say, I am proud of the man I am Whereas before it was like It was pretend pride really It was just all kind of ego And I wasn't I knew that I wasn't Very behaving in the way That I knew I could So Yeah Yeah No it's good It's good And I was going to say You know I see Now It's really cool Because I met RD Obviously But you know I know Smiley Riley You see the smile When I was reading the letter I'm like a Cheshire cat I can't wipe it off I know Smiley Riley This is cool Yeah you do But yeah, honestly, this has been an honor.

1:57:51And likewise, I feel the same. Yeah, yeah. It is going to change, I think, a lot of perspectives and enlighten many, many people, for sure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Riley Davies, RD. Having him sit here today, I see how layered he is and how much he's had to manage, but more importantly, how much weight he still carries with him. Near-death experience, addiction, the fractured relationship with his father, his challenges with the music industry. I mean, there's so much to his story. It's hard to believe that he's only 23. The advice that his mother gave is something that I think is really good advice.

1:58:46So that was at the early age. She said, look, if that's what you want to do, then you better get to work. Like, don't mess around. And it's interesting for me because it's the same conversation I'm having with my oldest son right now where he's giving me different ideas of what he wants to do. And part of me is saying, oh, well, watch out for this. But the other part is what she says. We'll just get to work. I think a lot of people are going to be surprised, quite possibly shocked at what R.D. had to say. But when you listen to his entire journey, it's very understandable why he has landed at the place he's in today.

1:59:39Absolutely adore foreplay. I think it's brilliant. I feel sad for people who don't. But then that became a thing, you know, that I was somebody who went down on girls. So you became almost shamed for going down. Yeah. Everybody put their hands in here! 17, you do coke for the first time. Yes. You are removing pain you didn't realize you had. And my last memory was I was trying to escape something. What were you trying to escape? My therapist would be buzzing that you're asking me these questions. If there's any question that feels off, You just say, Paul, let's not go there. I'd be impressed if you found somewhere.

2:00:14Wow. OK. There was also a point where I was very close to a suicide. My mom rung me, and I was like, sometimes I feel like I just don't want to be here. Knowing that, like, I put my mom in a position where she could think about losing her son while she was alive. My dream throughout my whole life was for my mom to be happy. Let's get to then Jade. Jade tells me she loves me all the time. And I love it. I never knew I could feel like this. She's my superstar. and I'm her superstar. Do you believe that you will marry Jade? We need to talk. Yeah, yeah, we do.