Backstreet Boys’ AJ McLean on Addiction, Sobriety And The Moment He Nearly Lost Everything

41:25But I would prefer to stick to the creative stuff. I mean I could see it. I mean I think that's in your bones. What's funny is cut to now our show at sphere in las vegas uh we we knew the set list was going to be what it was and we knew we're going to start with larger than life and i was driving around la one day and i put on just like funk r &b essentials playlist right and can you feel it came on and i was like some of the chord progressions sound like larger than life so i texted rich and tone i was like what do you think about merging these two together oh wow well or the intro to the show yes and it worked out perfectly and it's the third time that i've had an idea like this for our show that has worked i did it on the never gone tour with a song from kill bill okay uh called battle for honor and then i did it again at the sphere when we do our song get down I wanted get down on it get down on it for years I've wanted to put that in that song somehow and it just happened to work perfectly on this particular show that's beautiful I've seen photos because I haven't seen the show in Vegas you gotta come dude us just talking about Can You Feel It it is reminiscent of of the video yeah this was the most incredible like or is i mean we're still going the most incredible experience of when we did the millennium tour in 99 you know this was that we thought it was innovative it was before y2k and it's you know we're going into 2000 it's it's like the future and you know we came out on the surfboards and star wars theme and all this stuff yeah this this will help you oh god oh dear god okay that's okay I was like oh god what are you going to pull out I was like this is so tiny isn't it it's so small have you ever seen this before a tiny vinyl you've never seen this before look at that it's so little a tiny vinyl you can have this too that's fucking cool yeah we so long story short my wife seven years ago we were having dinner and she goes, you know, no artist of your caliber has ever done like a remake, identical remake of their biggest tour.

44:04No one ever. And she started throwing out examples. She's like, the Velvet Rope tour. She's like, I missed that when I was a kid. I would love it if Janet did that tour again. I would go. One of Madonna's first tours that she did because my wife's a big Madonna fan, but her parents were like, a little too sexy. So she missed that. And she's like, Millennium was y 'all's biggest, biggest tour, biggest show. And I was like, damn, that's a really good idea. Yeah. And I brought it up to the boys for seven years. Wow. And it got shut down every time. And then finally broke through. And we had this huge meeting with all the powers that be live nation, William Morris, publicists, the boys management.

44:48And they go, okay, AJ pitch it. And I pitched it. Everybody loved it. The wheels were moving. And then three months of dead silence. And I was like, well, what the hell is going on? Are we doing this? Are we not doing this? And I reached out to our manager. I'm like, Ron, are we doing this? He's like, hold on. We got something in the works. I just don't want to say what it is yet until it's 100%. Okay. And then they presented us with the option to do it at Sphere. And we were just kind of like, none of us had ever been there. So we didn't know what that venue was. We went and saw the Eagles. I walked out with a kink in my neck because I'm like, what is all of this?

45:24And of course, then the wheels start turning. And we got with the most incredible creative team. Baz Halpin, Richmond and Tone. Baz did the Eagles show. He did U2. Wow. And there's no better venue for a, like, this is the most futuristic venue in the world. Yeah, it looks incredible. So for this show and this thing, and it's a little easier on our bodies now to not have to tour. And just everybody can come to us. It's ruining concerts for everybody. What the? This particular venue. The venue. Why so? Because you'll never get this experience anywhere else. And it's so innovative and so immersive.

46:07There's no way to duplicate it. I don't care if it's Taylor Swift, the heiress tour, or it's the Rolling Stones, stadium shows, whatever. And these are all incredible shows. You'll never see anything like this anywhere in the world.

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47:34Paul? Hey, Taz. Where are you? I'm headed to Jamaica, oxtails are calling, I'm headed to vacate, what's up? No, no, no, no, Paul, you can't get on that plane! What? The people of LA need to talk.

47:50I'll be right there.

47:57I made it! Paul, come on. I know we're in LA, but the sunglasses, they've got to go. Come on, we have a break to do. Gosh, look, We Need to Talk is taking a trip to LA. Same set, new voices, and conversations you've never heard before. So subscribe if you haven't already and drop a comment below. Who do we need to talk to? We just might make it happen. Gosh, I can see it already.

48:29When you mentioned Black and Blue, right? This is darkest period. do you recall rock bottom moment? I do, but it wasn't my true rock bottom. But it was a rock bottom moment then. Okay. My rock bottom was years later. But rock bottom moment for me then, I swore to myself that I would never do drugs before a show or drink during or before a show. And I held true for a while. and it wasn't until the end before we had to kind of take the tour down for a minute and I went to rehab and all those things that I was drinking on stage we had a little skit before the call where the phone would ring like the intro to the song and I had a prop phone and I would be like looking at the fans is it is that you calling me is that you calling me and then I would turn around and look at my band and I'd be like, is it you?

49:32Is it you? And I would specifically walk over to our percussion player and he had a red solo cup and everybody out in the audience is going to assume it's water. Just big old quad shot of Jack Daniels. And I would just shoot it and we had two songs left in the show. So towards the end of the encore, the alcohol started kicking in between the heat, the dancing and everything and I started the buzz. So I was ready to go the minute I walked off stage. Like straight to the bar. I was good to go. But that was a low for me to like know that I'm now drinking on stage. Right. You know. And you've crossed the boundary that you set for yourself.

50:14Yeah. You know, and that. But then you said then years later, it was rock, rock. No, rock, rock bottom for me was, which was initially the turning point to really get my shit together. I had a show in South Beach and at that time I had taken pretty much all my dealers out of my phone. And I did the show in Miami, went out, party on a boat, was drinking, met some random people. they had drugs did a shit ton of blow didn't realize around that time was when fentanyl was slowly creeping in so i dodged a big bullet but you know in my mind as an addict thinks you know if i drink some coffee i'll mask the smell if i do this or do that nobody will be aware and at the time my wife knew she had discovered that i had a allergy to vodka and that was at the time that was the drink that i was drinking um i didn't realize i was allergic to vodka but my face would get splotchy and break out and shit so if if i didn't facetime her she knew something was up or if I FaceTimed her and she saw my face, she would wait for me to be honest.

51:47And of course I wasn't until two weeks later. And then, oh yeah, by the way, I was drunk that night. You know, she's like, of course I knew, but, um, but I flew home, smelled like a bar, hadn't slept in like two days, went to give my youngest a hug and she wouldn't hug me. And I was like, what's going on, babe? And she's like, you don't smell like my dad. And I've never had a bigger bitch slap, gut check, god shot in my life. And I just felt like the most worthless piece of shit I've ever felt. And the very next day I went to a meeting and here I am four and a half years. So that single moment changed your life.

52:41I will go down in history saying my daughter saved my life. And I don't 100 % think she understands it. I mean, she's extremely intelligent. She's eight, but she's my little genius. Yes. Like eight going on 35 and like talking about non-Newtonium fluids and stuff with me. I'm like, what, what, what? Yeah. But I share stories from my past with my daughters every year that they're getting older. And I make them more and more graphic intentionally. Not to scare the crap out of them, but I want them to know this was daddy. This is where I hope you both never, ever go down this path. Yes. They've never seen me drunk and they never have to.

53:32And that's a great thing. Look at that. You know, and they both talk about how much, oh, we're never going to drink that. We hate alcohol. I'm like, well, you don't know unless you try it. So you can't say you hate it. Yes. I said, as your father, I pray that you both have an allergy to it. And, or you may just never even want to try it. Right. What's also beautiful here is that your daughters really love you. Oh, yeah. You know, I can see that. They're my little ride or dies, man. They're my little homies. Yeah. You know what's interesting is I sometimes get chills when guests say certain things.

54:08That moment where you said your daughter saved your life, I got chills. And then I automatically thought of the prologue on your new album. And one of your daughters basically saying, you know, I want to be my father. Like, I want to be able to dance like him. I want to be able to sing like him. Well, they can dance circles around. Oh, can they? Jesus. They're out here in Berkshire. They are, oh my God. I mean, they do competitive dance. Okay. And like the season just started this past weekend. And, you know, it's the level of intensity that these dance studios do with these kids now compared to when I was in dance.

54:50Yeah. It's night and not even night and day. It's like otherworldly. There's an hour class of just core. like they might as well just make you stand and just punch the crap out of your stomach my eight-year-old's got an eight-pack like it's not okay i gotta really work hard to keep this thing you know down you're good but like the level of of dedication and like um responsibility and commitment that they have put towards their passion yes i admire so much in both my girls because they really do take it seriously. They have fun. You know, you see a lot of these dance moms that if their kid doesn't place, like I want to haul off and smack somebody sometimes.

55:38Like they're grilling their child. Like, well, you did this wrong and you didn't punch your leg. And it's like, bro, it ain't that fucking important. Exactly. Like let them have fun. Nine times out of 10, none of these kids when they graduate are going to be a professional dancer. Every season at the end of the season, the seniors at my daughter's dance studio graduate. And they do this incredible dance. It's always beautiful, super emotional. And then they say where they're going next in life. Not a single one has ever said dance. Doctor, teacher, lawyer, philanthropist, whatever. Nothing dance.

56:18So it's like, unless you're going to be a dancer on tour with somebody or you're going to come back and be a teacher. I'll never tell my kids you sucked you do that so I want to get into family I have one more Backstreet Boys question but I also want to give you an observation that I just noticed is that I think when people hear your name Alexander James McClain or AJ McClain you're Alex to me I think they'll immediately think of Backstreet Boys. Immediately, okay? We spent a lot of time talking about the Backstreet Boys, and I watched your body language. But you became most lit, most animated, talking about your girls in their competitive dance class.

57:09And I think what's so interesting is how the love of a child can literally change you. I heard that, you know, Before my wife and I had our daughters, I heard from other dads, there's nothing like it. There's nothing. Whether you have boys or girls, it doesn't matter. Just a happy, healthy child. It changes everything, right? I heard this, heard this, heard this. And it really wasn't until I became a father that I really, truly understood, like, oh, my God, you're right. This changes everything. Yes. It changes everything. What I do now, yes, I do for me, but I also do for them. I do to set a good example.

57:56I do to show them hard work. And also, one of my biggest fears growing up was failure. I never wanted to fail at anything. And now I understand failure is part of it. You're not going to do anything perfect all the time. I'm perfectly imperfect. That's what I am. Right. Failure is part of life. We learn and grow from falling down. We learn to pick ourselves back up. We learn to gravitate towards people that we trust that will help lift us back up. Right. And, you know, being able to have these conversations with my daughters, if they're having issues at school, they've both gotten bullied. I've had to have those conversations with them.

58:45A lot of it because of me, you know, Oh, well, your dad's a celebrity. So you probably get this and that and dah, dah, dah. And it's like, from time to time, they'll both be like, why do you have this job? Like, can you not? And I'm like, no, this is what daddy does. But then all of a sudden, like, you know, it'll flip where they're excited that daddy has this job. And it wasn't until recently when, when we did the first leg of the Spear show in Las Vegas. The last show was August 28th. I think it was. My daughters came with some of their friends. And right there and then is already like, oh shit, dad's cool.

59:27You're bringing your friends to come see your dad at his job? That already doesn't happen a lot with parents. For their kids to want to bring their friends to their dad or mom's job. So that was cool. But after the show... and I had to leave my dressing room after they both said this to me because I didn't want them to see me bawl like a little baby. But they both said involuntarily, not from mommy, how proud they were of me. And they've never said that to me since they were born. Whether they thought it, they've never verbally said it. And they both said it. And in that moment, I was like, and like I could take that with me for the rest of my days and like now when I'm up there and they happen to come come see the show again yes like I just feel I'm like yes I feel good I feel proud and how would you describe how them saying that they're proud of you how would you describe that makes you feel it makes me feel joy It makes me feel acceptance.

1:00:40It makes me feel inspired. It makes me feel like my daughters actually look up to me. And it's a big responsibility, but it's one that I embrace. You know, as a new parent, we're terrified. Like, I don't want to fuck this up. Yeah. But that's part of it. You're going to mess up. Like there's no, you're, moms and dads to me are one of the hardest jobs in the world. Absolutely. But the most rewarding. It's interesting. First couple of years of trying to figure this thing out, but then there's a moment where you hit your stride and you realize that, you know, you are responsible for what is happening.

1:01:24Yeah. And, you know, I always applaud parents who are conscious about their parenting, but I also give extra grace to parents who didn't have that as an example. Right. And it seems like you're breaking a circle. Oh, for sure. I've definitely broken the cycle. Even my wife, you know, her parents split up and it was a lot of drama. She's one of four siblings. and she's even when we kind of when we separated and we kind of were going through a bit of a rough patch she's like even though I don't like you right now I can't take away from the fact that you're an incredible father when my wife and I met we both had a lot of baggage and my best friend could not have put it any better way he's like listen you guys were kind of destined to kind of crash and burn at some point.

1:02:19He's like, both of you were hand tied, ankle tied, ball gagged, thrown into the ocean and said, be in a relationship. It's impossible. But even my wife and I talking last night, like we've been, we, we still live separately, but we're working towards a goal to be together. because if I were her, I would have left my ass a long time ago. And she has stuck with me through hell and back. But because of those insecurities I talked about earlier, because of that low self-esteem, I'm sitting there living in this piece of shit as I'm going, why are you with me really? Exactly. Like you must want something from me.

1:03:02Is it money? Is it what? What is it? You want something. and I would continue to beat myself up and pull myself away. She's never, that's not who she is. You know, she's an extremely strong woman, has literally done incredible work on herself and I've done incredible work on myself and we're still doing it. Right. But what are you learning in that work? Because there are a lot of people watching, listening who are in relationships where they're trying to reconcile the relationship like you're doing right now. I mean, one of the things, a lot of us have this misconception of a good relationship is 50-50.

1:03:46No. A good relationship is 100 and 100. you have to through your faults but it's 100 and 100 on both sides the only way around is through you gotta go through some shit to continue to strengthen the foundation of a good relationship there are no perfect relationships if someone tells you that they have it they're lying to their teeth a relationship is work but it shouldn't have to be work for us it was an intimacy thing that was kind of at the at the epicenter and a lot of that stems from again the insecurities if i can't be intimate with myself and love myself it's that age-old saying if you can't love yourself you can't love someone else i didn't buy into that bullshit because i wanted to make sure everybody else was good king codependency over here right I can love you, but I can't love myself.

1:04:49And that was all bullshit. That was all a facade. You know, I was living a counterfeit lifestyle and a counterfeit life. I felt like a fraud, you know. But for whatever reason, when it came to my children, I didn't feel like a fraud. Right. And I would suspect because you knew they wanted nothing from you other than your love. Although I still did feel, looking back on it now, after doing my 12-step program and doing these things to better myself, learning that, yes, I was still being deceitful, even to my children, about I was still drinking and I was still doing these things. And they had no idea.

1:05:37And I would be talking to them on FaceTime and maybe I'm a little buzzed, but they had no idea. but I was living this double life, you know, but I mean, just, it makes me so happy and it makes my kids so happy where Rochelle and I are today. And I mean, they want us to move back in tomorrow. Do they? And I'm like, we're working up to that guys. Like, it's not that easy. There's a lot, there's still a lot of variables but we are working towards a common a common end and your your your hope is to to move in my hope is for us to get back to all be under one roof and to be a family like that again my my hope is that that's exactly what you get you know uh because i can see how much you want it patience you know patience and we've been able to even set up boundaries together now which and we can talk through things and go okay this is what i need from you yes or this is what i'm willing to give you and to meet in the middle that conversation wasn't even a conversation before right it was me saying i'm gonna do this today i'm doing this i i i i i yes but now it's we exactly because you because you're you're a better man yeah you're a better man can can we talk about the epilogue on your album so who were you talking to in that epilogue i was talking to i believe um those that need to hear it those that need to hear that it's okay to not be perfect to have your flaws but to know that with hard work you can be the best version of yourself.

1:07:28I wanted to inspire people, but I also wanted to hear myself say it out loud. I literally recorded it on a balcony in Austria right before the album had to be turned in and finalized. It was 22 degrees out. I was sitting on the balcony. I was having a cigarette. and I was getting blown up from my team. We need these things now. Final edits. I'm like, okay, okay, okay. And I just sat there and I just opened up my notes and I just hit record and I closed my eyes and it just came out. I hate the way I sound. No one likes the way they sound, by the way. I tell you, to me, it sounded real. It was raw.

1:08:22and there was one particular piece that I love, love, love that we all need to do is you thanked yourself. Yeah. Because I could never do that before. I could never look in the mirror and say thank you for believing in you because I didn't believe in me. Yes. You know, others could give me, you know, flowers and give me compliments and I would just nod along Thank you. Never feeling like I deserved it. 100 % I know I deserve everything that's happening in my life today. I deserve it. I worked for it. I own it, even with my flaws. But I deserve it. Yes. And you are now, you want the world to recognize you as Alex.

1:09:11Not as AJ. No. Ever again. Unless I'm with the boys. Okay. If I'm with the boys, like I said, that's a character in a band. But there is now a balance where when I'm on tour with the boys or I'm doing a show with the boys, it's a little bit of both. As a fan, I think they can see when it goes in and out of Alex and AJ. and for whatever reason I don't know why for the past probably four to five years fans just on their own started calling me Alex or Alexander mainly in the Latin community but for whatever reason because I am Latin but like to the point where they would yell it and I wouldn't respond and I felt like an ass and I'm like oh wait that's me I'm sorry hi not used to hearing that but it's nice to hear it yes because i hadn't heard it in decades yeah yeah you know so on the alex alexander note and going back to my last backstreetboards question is i've always wondered how you all manage this as a group is how do you manage the egos especially how they're pumped up by the public so for example what i my impression of you all was always oh you know what he's the edgy one He's the edgy one.

1:10:41He's the one that, you know, you never know what you're gonna get. He's the spicy one. It's still true to this day. It's still true. It's still true. So, you know, there's personas, but then I would imagine your ego feeds into the persona. Of course it does. And everyone has one. Yes. Everyone has an ego. But how do you manage that? And then also the popularity. It felt like, okay, this one is more popular today. Oh, this one's more popular today. How do you do that? I mean, as far as the ego goes, I think we've been very fortunate as a group to have incredible communication skills. Yeah, we've had our moments where, you know, it gets physical or it's a full streaming match.

1:11:29You all have fought with each other. Nick and I have fought the most. Physically? Yeah, over the dumbest shit. Once was over a comic book. because I went through a bad acne phase and Nick was teasing me and I was not okay with it. And he had just started collecting comic books and he got Alien vs. Predator number one. And I had already started smoking so I had a lighter in my pocket and I'm like, call me Pizza Face one more time. One more time. You watch what happens. And I had a Bic lighter and I didn't realize it was on torch. So I was just going to fake like I'm going to light it and not really light it and that bitch went up like frigging.

1:12:06And I'm like panicked. so my knee-jerk reaction was to throw it in the sink and now it's wet soggy and torched so he got me in a headlock and just started pounding on the back of my head rightfully so i'm like yeah i mean oh yeah yeah right and i was just like but um but no we've we've always been really good about communicating and i think more so in the last probably eight years ten years okay we've really honed it in we've really because we're all fathers we're all married. We all have a different perspective and we now know each of our thresholds. Yes. So we know, okay, AJ is willing to work the extra two days.

1:12:54Brian may not be. So let's, let's figure out how we can make this work for everybody. Let's, let's set up some, boundaries. Let's set up some ground rules. How do we make this work? Because it is always going to be a democracy because we're an uneven amount. So if three of us say that that wall is blue, the other two are going to have to say it's blue. But we've also created little side deals amongst each other. Morality clauses, things like that. Where if someone asks us to do something, if one of us morally just doesn't feel right about it, we're going to respect that. Okay. You know, um, stay out of politics.

1:13:39You know, it's one of the things that we have always said, and some of us will speak our mind, but we also understand like we're musicians. We're, we're like, we can say something subtle and get our point across. We don't have to go on a huge debate and get into an online argument with people. But our egos, we also keep each other in check. We know if somebody's acting up, it's like pop the balloon. But we also all come from really good, pretty good. Nick had a rough one, but the rest of us come from a pretty good upbringing. Like good old Southern households, hospitality, Yes. Be respectful, you know, treat everyone the way you want to be treated kind of a, you know, mindset.

1:14:34Yes. And you ask anyone that's ever worked for us, and we've had multiple bands, multiple crews, multiple management. I would venture to say not a single person is going to say, oh, those guys are fucking assholes. Yeah. I'm telling you, the word on the street, I mean, I know folks in the industry. Word on the street is that, yeah, solid. But we pride ourselves on that. One more space that I want to go to is building the band. One is that project, I remember when it was being discussed, there was a lot of excitement around all of the participants in that particular project. It happens that Liam Payne was a part of that.

1:15:18That was his last time that we saw him, and he died after the filming. What did he mean? What did Liam mean to you? And I wonder if you all had ever, because you shared not only the history of being in very popular bands, but also addiction. Did you ever talk to him about that? We did talk about it. The entire time that we were filming, he was sober. we did casually talk about it. And then we would talk about just everything, about life, about music. He had just finished a new project. And this was the most length of time that him and I had ever spent together. We had seen each other when One Direction was One Direction and we would see each other at events, award shows, whatever.

1:16:13But this was the longest stint that we were in the same room pretty much every day. And we immediately connected and we could candidly, even though there was a pretty decent age difference, it doesn't matter. We both pretty much went down the same path. Yes. So that right there was like, I see you, I get you without having to say it. But he like played me his album, asked for my notes and opinions. And I was like, I still have it. I still have it. I haven't played it for anyone. I still have the last conversation we had on my WhatsApp. Like it's, I won't get rid of it for a lot of reasons, but it's a reminder as well.

1:17:03And again, it reminds me of him before everything happened the way it did. And it keeps this beautiful perception of how much of a beautiful person he really was. Because he was. He was an incredible human being. Probably more talented than most even knew. Really? Incredible father. And just a good human being. Yes. But a tortured soul. You know? And I knew something was up when we were in communication pretty much every day after we finished shooting, talking about other ideas, other music things, TV things. We're just constantly, both of us, our brains don't stop. A lot of, and that's not even just addicts.

1:18:03That's just creative people. Your brain's constantly coming up with ideas and different things. And then all of a sudden the conversations stopped. Yes. and I know now looking back on it after everything transpired I know because I was there when I was in my addiction the last people I want to talk to are sober people because I don't want you to try to teach me anything I don't want you to come at me interesting I don't I don't want to talk to people that are sober I don't want to be lectured I don't want to be told what to do even though I would never have done that. I would have just been in an ear to listen.

1:18:46Like my sponsor has been for me, like others that are sober, that are friends of mine that have been for me. They've just been a shoulder and an ear. But literally I got the text. We were in literally, it was one of our first Zoom calls about the residency. And my manager, our group manager texted me while we were on Zoom. Oh my God, have you seen this? And I was, and I literally had to get off the call and I just, just frozen. And the first person I called was Nicole. she was hysterical and then I called Kelly and then I called one of our producers who was on another show who hadn't heard it yet the news hadn't broke where she was so I broke the news to her and it was just it was just absolutely devastating I mean but his legacy will continue He is remembered for the amazing person that he is.

1:19:53It was so beautiful that his family was so gracious to allow us to finish the show and to get the show out. Yes. And it was just so beautifully done. The final episode, dedicating the show to Liam and to his family. It was just so beautifully done. It really was. I'm curious what you think of this. So this is a statistic along the lines of addiction. So child stars are four times more likely to develop alcohol dependence and are more prone to drug abuse compared to the general population. Four times, right? You were a child star. Liam Payne was a child star. Why do you suppose that is? I mean, it's kind of a little bit of a bunch of things.

1:20:45It's product of your environment. who you surround yourself with. You surround yourself with a bunch of yes people, then you're destined for failure. Um, it's the quickest bandaid for stress, for being able to deal with maybe this like emotional disconnect. You know, I know Liam, one of the things that he had shared in other interviews and his father, you know, had mentioned after his passing was he hated hotel rooms. He hated being in like a dressing room or like a hotel room by himself. He hated it. Okay. I used to be the opposite. I used to love it because that's where I did most of my partying.

1:21:37I didn't want the world to see me doing the stuff I was doing. But then I started really feeling just lonely. Like this is pretty pathetic. Like I'm doing this by myself in my room. Everyone else is out at dinner or doing things. And I'm just like the recluse hermit, you know, living in my shame. I think also the pressure, there is a lot of pressure and some people can handle it. Some people can take it. Others, they don't know how to take it. You know, fortunately for myself and Liam and for quite a few others, we didn't join the 27 Club. Could have happened. Yeah. You know, it's everybody's got a different way of coping.

1:22:32And whether it's drinking, drugs, eating disorder, depression, anxiety. I'm just happy that no longer today is mental health or the topic of mental health being swept under the rug. It is literally on the tabletop to be discussed, to be rendered somehow. How do we fix this? A lot of people think that now, four and a half years sober, career is on fire, just launched my solo and it's going fantastic and I am beyond grateful. Yes. And I'm going to continue to work very hard to keep it going where it's going. I think people now, some people may think that I have it all figured out. no I don't it's I'm still figuring things out I'm still learning and I think I'm going to continue to learn until the day I'm in the dirt and I want to keep learning I want to keep absorbing information I want to keep keep the conversation of mental health open I want to keep the conversation and vulnerability open of my story, where if sharing what I share helps one person, then I did my job.

1:24:11I want to help people, but I know I can't give 110 % if I can't help me first.

1:24:23I'm finally putting myself first. above my kids, above my bandmates, above my wife, above my family. And that's okay. There is a healthy selfish. People don't realize that there is a healthy selfish. Miss Brene Brown said there is, and I believe her, there is a healthy selfish. Yes. And I encourage people to find that in themselves. because to be able to really, truly put yourself first and to know that that is okay and that is not being arrogant, that is not being egocentric, that is just taking care of you. Yes. That's okay. And I just, you know, like I said before, I'm perfectly imperfect and I'm okay with that.

1:25:20Yes. You know, I got my flaws, but I put my pants on like everybody else. and I'm not going to do everything perfect every day, whether it's being a father or a bandmate or a solo artist or just a natural human being. I'm not going to do it perfect every day, and that's okay. Yes. But I'm going to do the best I can to continue to be the best version of myself, a better man. Well said. You said something that is controversial to many, but not to Brene Brown, not to me, and that is that you put yourself above everyone else because you have to. You do. You have to. And I think there's this notion that, no, you know what, my kids actually come before me.

1:26:04Or, no, actually, my partner comes before me. But when you do that, what you realize is that you actually don't fully love yourself. No. And I'm so glad that you are saying this. Yeah. I mean, regardless of putting myself first, I will die for my children. Oh, yeah. I will take a bullet for my kids or my wife, my bandmates, the people that matter most to me, 100%. But I can't give them all of me if I can't give all of me to myself. Can't. I can't. I don't want to give you pieces of me. I want to be able to give you all of me. Right. With boundaries, with that understanding that, hey, I'm going to give you as much of me as I feel is needed.

1:26:57Yes. But whatever that amount is, I'm giving you 100 % of that. Yes. Yes. You know, it's interesting. I think when you're able to put yourself first, what you're saying is, I don't plan on dying for anyone. I'm going to live for you. Yeah. And that's what you're doing. And you're living for everyone in particular. I have to show this. This is one of my favorite photos. Yes, that was. If you could describe what's in this. So this is the father-daughter dance at the school that my youngest still goes to because she's still in elementary school. My oldest is now in middle school. But they were both still at the same school at this time.

1:27:43And it was a doo-wop 1950s theme. Ah, okay. And so they had classic cars out front. And so we literally got all dolled up. And we were doing the twist and shaking our butts and having a good time. And it was just the best time. And like I said before, way back at the beginning, I used to tease my bandmates that had kids before me. There's no urgency to get home. There's no urgency to whatever, whatever. And now it's like, I can comfortably tell my boys, hey, on this date is the daddy-daughter dance. I'm not missing that. These are my daughter's birthdays. I'm not missing that. Like, my oldest just turned 13.

1:28:31That's a big one. Yes. Over my dead body was I missing my daughter turning 13. That wasn't going to be a FaceTime birthday for me. And it happened to land on Thanksgiving this year. And we went to Disney, so we didn't have to cook. it was great um and so yeah like i i've already missed enough with my kids because of my job so as any and every chance i get to not miss out on anything else i'm going to do there you go you're living for them 100 i mean obviously in their minds they would love to go on the road with me and get homeschooled but i'm not gonna be team no we we've mommy i should say not me Mommy tried that during COVID, and that was a freaking nightmare.

1:29:18Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think we all did. I want to say this. You said the album is flying. The album is, hi, my name is Alexander James. Okay? I've listened to it. I would say that your voice has actually gotten stronger. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I love it. I love it. Thank you. I would encourage everyone to listen to Better Man in particular. That was my favorite off of the album. It's funny because Better Man was, and hopefully this doesn't piss off the religious community, but Better Man was the Holy Trinity for me because Arizona was inspired by that experience of going to Scottsdale and learning to find out who I am and that journey.

1:30:06relapse was this kind of opus to I was sober but I was still doing addict things people, places and things I was still doing shitty things even though I was sober because I still hadn't done the work that I needed to do with my steps and with my sponsor and with myself I still hadn't done those so how I stayed sober through that time it's a freaking miracle right and then finally getting over that hump and being where I am today the final piece of that puzzle was Better Man and I thought there was no better way to end the album than with Better Man and there's an even keel between where they're sectioned on the album okay those three kind of if you if you listen to those three back to back it's kind of insane I just did it yesterday Wow, okay.

1:31:04Will do. It's trippy. Will do. You can hear even the tone of my voice, the lyrics, how I'm singing. You can hear this from like almost desperation to happiness. You can hear it. It's crazy. Yeah. I feel like you are in a more evolved place now. Are you familiar with Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs? Yes. Where, you know, basic, it's like, okay, I need safety, I need shelter, and then moves up to connection and love. But the highest level is self-actualization, right, where you really become your best self. And I feel like this is the zone that you're in. I would disagree. I think this is, yeah, like something happened during the process of making this album, which took four years.

1:31:54And I'm glad that it did. So final question for you, Alex, and this is the question that everyone gets, okay? You've had some incredible conversations in your life. When you think about the most memorable, who was it with and what did you learn? Wow. The most memorable conversation. Yes. probably for me um most memorable conversation would be with

1:32:28with my sponsor uh who also doubles as my best friend of 25 years um if anyone doesn't understand the 12-step program uh the fourth step is the hardest step for most. It's the one that takes people out, whether you relapse over it or it actually takes you out out. It's a fearless and moral inventory of yourself. Having to break down columns of what was your part, what was this person's part, and what were the effects of it? What did it affect you? Was it financially, spiritually, emotionally, all these different things. It's very complex, but I put it off for 20 years. Writing all of this out and sharing this with my best friend, or you could share it with a priest, minister, rabbi, another alcoholic, whatever the case is.

1:33:39My best friend is also sober for quite some time. sharing that with him. And even like we've told, we tell each other everything. He learned things that day that he didn't know about me because the only way to do it right is to be rigorously honest. And I was like really honest. And it was this like blanket of just like, just shoving the blanket off. And then when we were done, taking all this stuff that I wrote, crinkle it up into a ball, chuck it in the fireplace. But most importantly, hold on to that. Never lose what you just did and what you just worked to get to. Remember all of that. remind yourself and hold on to that like it's the like it's like your life depends on it and and i have done just that like i have held on to that so close to the chest and it's a constant daily reminder where i don't want to go back to i don't have to go back to if i feel squirrely for any reason at all i play out the tape in my head i know how it ends yes it doesn't end well.

1:35:04It either ends in losing my family or losing my life. And losing my family is losing my life for me. So, you know, but yeah, that was, that was the most pivotal moment I think in my life. Yes. Yes. I, uh, I truly appreciate you coming here. You know, I, I've, I've learned so much more about you. Um, and it's interesting because I think that throughout all of these years, you know, enjoying the music. I only knew AJ. But today I met Alex, and I like him. He's not too bad. He's alright. He's alright. I heard his daughters dance better than him, but... Yes, they do. It's embarrassing. It was long enough, but good God.

1:35:53But I like him. And I hope, more than anything, for you to be able to wake up with your family. that's what I want for you. So do I. Thank you. Thank you, man. Yeah, man. Excellent. Excellent. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Alex, or Alexander, James McClain. One of the coolest guests we've ever had. So reflective. So appreciative. What I also love, too, is that, I mean, let's face it, he's a superstar. and many superstars are guarded on certain aspects of their life, he sat on this chair and said, ask me anything. Everyone in the world, for the most part, has heard of the Backstreet Boys. He could have had anything he wanted.

1:36:44He said he was surrounded by yes men for his entire adult life. You think he has everything, but hearing the story, you realize at moments he really had nothing. What I love too is this could be the first guest we've ever had who is in the process of reconciling their relationship. And he's not living with his wife, wants to move back with his wife, but still admittedly is working, is doing the work. I think that's so – there's something just beautiful about that, that he's doing the work. He's in the process of it. And he feels like he will get there. Hope. Alex is hope personified.

1:38:12Nice!