Big Brother’s Chantelle Houghton Finally Speaks Out "I Don't Want To Hide Anymore"

34:29She is. Yeah. But when I talk to many people, they point back to her on Big Brother as that really cemented it. So to hear her say this about you, how does that make you feel? I'm not the girl that was in Big Brother. I never will be. Everything I've been through, that version of me, oh my God, that version of me is gone, you know.

35:01So obviously that's beautiful, the words that Davina has just said, and that's amazing, but I find it's hard because it's like she's talking about someone else because that person doesn't exist of me anymore. Do you see what I mean? I see exactly what you mean. I'm so grateful, and that was beautiful, everything that Davina said, but I feel like she's talking about someone else. I know exactly. Am I mad? No, no, you're not. You're not. This is fame. You know, and we can't put it all on fame. But I think we all have to take a moment and think this was 20 years ago. This was a different time. Yeah.

35:46When you came off of this show, you were one of the most popular people in the UK. One of the most recognizable people in the UK. Yeah. And you can even see how that bared out in the press. You can look at the money that was being offered. Yeah. You know, when you came out, for example, your first interview, first interview, how much were you offered for that interview? I literally did the first interview the very next day and they paid me£250 ,000, which is... I mean... It goes back to the whole disbelief thing because even on that day I didn't believe it because it was just crazy. It was crazy.

36:34Within the first six months, how much did you make? I remember I had a diary and I'd put in what I was because I was working all the time like every single day and I knew that I had to maximise it I knew that I couldn't turn down work because I also knew that this wasn't going to last forever like I never thought oh this is it for the rest of my life you know so I used to write in my diary the job that I was doing and how much I was getting for it and I remember I used to count it and count it and I was just couldn't wait until it got to the one million and it was six months pretty much bang on six months that I got to one million pound yeah but even I I was full of disbelief like even now looking back on I still don't believe it's you know it's it's unbelievable it's unbelievable I walked into big brother with 80 pence in my bank account.

37:31Did you? Yeah. I was all out. Yeah. So I was like, this needs to work. Well, it worked. It worked, yeah. Maybe too good. Yeah. But it worked. Yeah. What was your identity, right? The story you tell about yourself. What was it when you got out of big brother immediately right when you when you came out i still i back i at the time i still in fact to be honest it made me not know my identity even more so because i didn't know who i was before and i definitely didn't know who i was then you know um one minute you know i'm living in a small village and then next thing i'm in the queen mother's house having tea and coffee and like shaking Prince Charles' hand.

38:23Really? Prince at the time. What about friends and family? Do they treat you any differently? My family have stuck by my side throughout the whole thing. But friends, you know, it's so difficult because a lot of people say, you know, when somebody becomes famous, they change. In my experience, the people around me changed. and that was really, really difficult because I lost all... One by one, I lost my friends. I had a really good friend and I was doing a TV show at the time and she was due to come on there. It was like a reality show and basically the night before, her mum called the production company and said, unless my daughter's getting paid the same amount of money as Chantel, she's not going to do it.

39:17and just yeah people changed around me like they couldn't handle it because I went from having nothing to having everything

39:27and so that led to a lot of loneliness you know because I've had everything on paper but I'd lost everyone apart from my family right have you noticed how when life gets busy our decision making takes a hit too you lose your ability to make everyday choices like what to have for lunch. Before you know it, you're inhaling a family-sized bag of snacks while questioning who you really are. Now, I know because I've definitely been there. But the new Black Edition Ramen Noodles from Huel, our sponsor, makes it easy to choose better. There's 40 grams of protein per pot with 26 essential vitamins and minerals and even vitamin C.

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40:44Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema, so I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about ebglis? Ebglis, Lubrikizumab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies, EBCLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids.

41:18Don't use if you are allergic to EBCLIS. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EBCLIS. Before starting EBCLIS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paid partnership with Lilly. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about EBCLIS and visit eplist.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. This episode is supported by FX's The Shards, a seductive drama from executive producer Ryan Murphy. Set in 1980s Los Angeles, the series follows a group of glamorous, deeply entangled high school seniors drawn into a life of wealth, beauty, parties, and excess.

42:00At its center is Brett, whose reality begins to unravel when the The arrival of a new student coincides with a series of mysterious murders. FX's The Shards premieres August 5th on FX and Hulu. So now you meet someone in a house named Preston. Yes. Okay. Now, a question that I have around this is, were you aware that Preston had a girlfriend? Yes. Okay, so you knew? I did, yeah. You knew, okay. So you then strike up, would you say, a friendship? Yeah. With him. Did you know who he was before entering the house? No, I hadn't heard of him. But it was just like, you know, like two silly little kids.

42:52That's how it was, like a giggly friendship. And we were like the kids of the house almost. That was how it was for us in there. Okay. Okay. So it was a friendship that was built up. Did it feel at any point romantic? No, it didn't because I knew he had a girlfriend. I mean, I think people talking about us in there and saying stuff to Preston, oh, what's your girlfriend going to think? you know, but he maintained, well, I've actually haven't done anything wrong. It's not, you know, like we hadn't kissed each other. We hadn't spoke about dating each other. You know, nothing had been said. Yes. Looking back, I can understand that his girlfriend might have been really uncomfortable with our friendship in the house.

43:50And I'm sad if that caused her any pain, but there genuinely wasn't anything going on with us whilst we were in Big Brother. There really wasn't. Did you truly fall in love in the Big Brother house? It's so hard for me to distinguish. The only thing that I can describe it as is like a holiday romance. And, you know, it's like a holiday romance is like, you know, you meet somebody, then you then go home and you pine off to them. But we obviously didn't need to do that because then we got together. But the reality of it was that we weren't right for each other. But at that time, yeah, I'd say, yes, I was.

44:38Yeah, of course. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't have got married if I wasn't. Okay. And that happened so quickly. So how – you got married after knowing Preston for how long? So I met him in the January and married him in the August. okay it was at seven months yeah okay that's quick really quick yeah why do you believe you two got married so quickly um i don't know he asked me and i said yes and then next thing we were getting married within a matter of months um OK Magazine paid us a shed load of money. I didn't get married for the money, don't get me wrong.

45:30But yeah, I mean, one minute he was engaged to his ex-girlfriend because he came out of the house and proposed to her. Oh, wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, and then within two weeks he then proposed to me. Well, I don't know, sorry, maybe I've got the two weeks wrong. Not long after he then proposed to me. okay yeah were you aware that he had proposed to you were aware yeah okay yeah okay so why do you think you did it why did you say yes i think probably because of like the boyfriend my very first boyfriend i then had someone who then like what he wanted me he wanted to marry me you know So it was, it's good.

46:13It feels good to be wanted, doesn't it? So, yeah, I didn't think about it at all. Like, should I do this? It was just a straight yes. Okay. And then you divorced 10 months. Yeah. So three months, you were married for three months. No, so we got married in August 2006. and then we got divorced, I think it was like pretty much, we were to get in total, we were together 18 months. Okay. So married in August 2006. I think we were divorced by, yeah, August 2007. Okay, so didn't make it the year? No. What happened? We were so different. We were two completely different people. What he loved about me at the beginning was, was probably everything he despised about after.

47:10Like he's even said in an interview that he'd never got the glamorous blonde girlfriend, model girlfriend, because he'd always been like quite geeky at school. And then all of a sudden he's got her. But then it's like reality sets in. It's like actually I didn't want to marry that person. Do you know what I mean? I just wanted a picture of her on my wall. do you know what I mean we lived in Brighton where he came from so I moved down there I didn't know anyone down there and I think there was a lot of pressure on him not from me but I think he felt a lot of pressure to not like leave me alone like at home alone you know I think he felt pressure to make sure that I was okay because I knew it I didn't know anyone um so I think that that was definitely a pressure in our relationship he's never said that to me but i can't i can only imagine he must have felt that you know i was all the way away from home i didn't know a soul in brighton um so it's a lot for somebody to carry that burden you know but we like we would we were like we're like chalk and cheese we're like chalk and cheese they really are it's just we should never have got married we're like it should have been what it was but you know what we were young We were silly.

48:31We were on this crazy ride of Big Brother.

48:40We would never have met in real life, in like real life. We would never have met. He wouldn't have fancied me. I wouldn't have fancied him. We just wouldn't. We would never have come across each other because we wouldn't have mixed in the same circles. We wouldn't have gone to the same shows. You know, sometimes he'd talk and I wouldn't even understand what he's talking about because of the words he taught you, do you know? Really? Yeah, oh my gosh, yeah. You didn't even understand him. I think his dad was like a professor or something, but we were just so different. But there was no massive falling out.

49:16There was no cheating. There was nothing. It was the most amicable divorce ever. And actually, with the divorce, I had to get lawyers and then he had to get lawyers. and what the lawyers were doing were, my lawyers were calling me up trying to say, well, you know, you can get this from him, you can have like a take on that finance and his lawyers were doing the same. They were trying to like pit us off against each other and we both went to a meeting with both lawyers and said, we just want a divorce. We just don't want to be married anymore. I don't want his stuff. He doesn't want my stuff. We just don't want to be married, you know.

49:54it was the most amicable divorce. And you hugged on the day of your divorce? Yeah. The day that I moved out of the house, we hugged and said goodbye. There was no nastiness, no bitterness, no hate, no nothing. It was a very easy breakup. But it was sad. You know, all breakups are sad, aren't they? Sure. You know, but yeah. Sure. Now then, did Preston then go back to his old girlfriend? No, he didn't. No. Okay. He met a girl, an American girl. Yeah. He met her quite quickly, which is fine, you know. There's no timeline of when you can and can't move on. True. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So then. He's now engaged again, actually.

50:45So, yeah. He's engaged. Yeah. Look at that. Look at that. You're in a relationship. He's in a relationship. Yeah. It all worked out. So now you and Preston then saw each other in Big Brother again. Yes. Correct. In 2010. In 2010. So tell me about that, because from what I understand, you entered Big Brother on a special day for both of the two of you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it would have been, so six, it would have been our fourth four-year wedding anniversary on that day. Yeah. On the day that you both entered the Big Brother home? Yeah. Okay. So this was a special Big Brother that you both did? Yeah, it was like the ultimate Big Brother where they picked like some winners and some other characters who had made like a big presence on their show.

51:41So, yeah. Okay. Now, a question that a lot of people have is, did you and Preston know that the other would be in that Big Brother house? Yeah.

51:58Thank you for being honest about that. He rung me up and told me he was going on there. So I was like, would you know it is, honestly. So yes, I did know. And he knew that I was. I knew that he was. And then just as we were literally about to get put into the house, one of the runners accidentally pulled the curtain between us and we both looked at each other and was like, oh, God. But then we had to pretend that we didn't know because it wasn't fair on the production team. You know, they put a lot of effort in and, you know, it's just a little white light, you know. Yes. But yeah. Also, too, I think it shows you how amicable the split was.

52:38Yeah. That he would call you to tell you. Yeah. Now, there was another moment that I read about with Preston that I thought was very enlightening. There was a moment where he walks out. Can you take me back to this moment? So it was a television show that you both did. Yeah. It was Never Mind the Boscox. Yes, yes. And he really stands up for you. So what happened, if you could paint that picture? Yeah. So I had written an autobiography and it was published and me and Preston are very different. Like things that I think are really posh and like upmarket, he wouldn't. And so the presenters, Preston, went on this TV show, Never Mind the Buzzcocks, and I was in the green, I was in the waiting room watching him on there, and the presenter decided to pick up my autobiography and start reading snippets of it out.

53:45And, yeah, they did sound embarrassing and it was cringeworthy and it was making a fool of me. and Preston was obviously just expected to sit there and listen to it. And I was so touched that he got up and walked out because actually the presenter was just disrespecting me. I think he said something, it was a paragraph about, it was a paragraph of me saying that I'd done a shoot for the Daily Mail and I felt really posh and upmarket it. and people have their own opinions on newspapers, don't know of what is posh and not market. And he was just trying to make a fool of me by reading them out as the press got up and walked out.

54:35But he got so much backlash for doing that. He got so much backlash for walking out, but he just didn't want to sit there and listen to his wife be disrespected. So I really appreciated what he did. Okay. Okay. And I recall that a statement that he gave afterwards is he talked about how this was a depiction of classism. I don't know what you're talking about. Oh, really? You don't know? That's okay. You don't have to know it all. This is why the marriage didn't work. Oh, you're saying that you don't know what classism is. Yeah, no, I don't know. Okay, not to go close to you. Okay, well, I mean, I think we should talk about it briefly because – so I was not here in the U.K.

55:30during this time. I got to the U.K. in 2018. Okay. And it was very quickly that I realized how regimented the U.K. was with regard to class. Okay. And what I believe Preston was stating in that moment, not only with his walking out, but then later literally quoting, was that they were trying to suggest that you were in a lower class. Yeah, which I am. I was. Being an American coming in is we have class as well, right? But what I've noticed in the United States for the most part, since some will debate me on this, is that at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how educated you are or where your family is from or how much land you have or what your title is.

56:26Yeah. It all boils down to how much money you make. Okay. Right? So you could have none of those things that I just mentioned. you have you make a lot of money you're an influencer you make a lot of money and therefore you're considered to be of higher class oh wow however i've noticed in the uk that's not the case no right so how does that impact or did that then impact your relationship knowing that Or believing, because I don't know if I'm signing up to this, but believing that you were of a lower class than your partner. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine who is a producer in the United States and has worked on UK and US reality TV shows and said, Paul, you know what?

57:25one of the biggest differences between UK and US reality TV shows, and I said, what? Tell me, is that in the UK, a lot of the casting is of people that are considered to be of a lower class. And once again, I still have, I still feel, I feel like I want to throw up when I talk about this but this is their opinion whereas in the US it's all over the place doesn't necessarily matter but in the UK it's predominantly that what's your perception of that because that's a very charged accusation if you will because when you read into it you can see you can say oh wow so does that mean that people are casted that way so that people who perceive themselves to be of a higher class can look down yeah on that group what's what's your take on that idea um i mean i don't think i was cast for that that that reason that they thought that i was of a lower class i'd like to believe that they cast me on like my personality but I do think like the press and the media tried to dumb me down more than I actually am.

59:00I remember George Galloway saying on Big Brother that that girl is not stupid you know she's not as stupid as she seems she's actually as sharp as a tack and I thought that was a really nice compliment actually because the media and the press and I think it was easier to make me seem like this thick blonde bimbo, you know. But I am what I am, like, you know, I've got better. Yeah. And, you know, so do you consider yourself intelligent? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Are you looking at me in disbelief like, Chantelle, you're not intelligent. I'm looking at you saying, I had no idea that you would doubt these things.

59:54Oh my God, yeah, definitely. Like, I've done a lot of work on myself in all different aspects, but I was dumb. I was stupid back then. Definitely. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. So this gives me more insight as to, especially in your relationship with Preston. So I could see that when you say that you were different, you truly felt like the two of you were different. Yeah. But then you split up. You two were friends. So when's the last time you spoke with Preston? It was probably a couple of years ago. he just sent me a message on Instagram like hey how are you like he's actually out in LA he writes like songs writes music out there now yeah the last time I saw him was Big Brother 2010 and yeah the last time via DM on Instagram was a couple of years ago wow so you haven't talked to him in years no that's incredible okay okay so now can we move on to another surprise Okay, go on then.

1:01:06Are you ready? Yeah. All right, so here's what I want to do on this one is I have this for you. Okay, all right. All right. I would like for you to open that up. Oh, my God. I'm scared. And if you can give that a read for us. I have no idea what this could be. Literally no idea. Hey, Chantel, I hope this message finds you living the dream. no one else could ever understand the insane surreal fun scary magical ride we found ourselves fumbling through in the post big rubber madness no matter how hard i try to explain it to other people i can never quite find the words it may be a trauma bond that we share but it's powerful and i'm happy that we always find a time to check in on each other all these years later i was constantly impressed by how effortless stardom was for you a natural every now and then more often than i care to admit I get your candy floss song stuck in my head and allow myself a little nostalgia for those days and our daughter Beetlejuice.

1:02:06Oh little BT. I miss being that young and naive but it was our youth and naivety that got us through it. I know that the crash course in the media studies that it ended up being has made us both better and happier people in the long run. Lots of love and admiration always. So that's Preston, right? That is a letter from Preston. That's lovely. And yeah, that is, it's a lovely letter. I'm a bit annoyed though because he left Baby Girl. We had two chihuahuas as that. Poor little Baby Girl. Although to be honest, she wasn't called Baby Girl. I changed her name when we broke up. I love that you read this letter and you're mad because he forgot the name of one of the chihuahuas.

1:02:50You're like, this guy that's why I divorced you yeah I'll have a dog's name that's a lovely letter and do you know what it's um I'm so glad that we're where we're at you know because it could have the press could have turned us on each other you know but that was what and our lawyers but that was one thing that we were both not willing to compromise on you know and there was always truth with me and him. There was always truth. Yeah. Yeah. I could see it. I mean, that's the letter from someone who respects you as a friend. Yeah. Yeah. Hey there. I just want to say thank you for choosing We Need to Talk.

1:03:34Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life and I want to continue to share it with you. So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast.

1:03:51What was the inflection point for you? So you were happy-go-lucky on Celebrity Big Brother. You leave. You make a million pounds in the first six months. I would imagine you had some good times. Yeah. I spent a lot of money shopping. Even I got bored of shopping at one point. I was like, oh, not again. I hate shopping today. I hate shopping. I'm like, you know, look, them men that say, oh, I'm not going shopping with his wife. I'm never going to shop in. I can't bear it. Oh, my gosh. I got bored of shopping. I've never heard this. I got just bored of shopping too much. So things are good, right?

1:04:34But there's some point where things become bad. Can you take me to that point? Yeah. What happened?

1:04:48So the marriage and the relationship with Preston didn't work out. So I moved back home to like near my hometown, but I was living alone. So I joined an agency and this guy was looking after me who worked there. and he was married and he crossed boundaries that he should never have crossed. And I was so vulnerable. I was really vulnerable because of obviously being so new to the industry as well, but also being alone and I kind of always was made to feel that they were like in like my life was in their hands and they could like kind of like keep making me or they could break me and this particular guy he would like send me messages that were like harassing like harassing me like making it clear that he wanted to have a relationship with me, that he wanted more from it.

1:06:04And it was just like it was dark. It was a really dark time. And I wish looking back that it's hard, isn't it, when you're young? You know, me today now, if someone did or said any of those things, I would call them out on it straight away and it wouldn't happen again. Yes. But then I was so scared of losing the career that I had and I just felt like a scared young girl, you know. He ended up booking me a PA to go out to Ireland and I know now that he went out of his way to get this PA to get me out of the country so that we were alone together. And we then left and he got rooms next to each other and I remember getting in my room as quick as I can and he tried to come in the room with me but I shut the door and I went and sat on the bed and I remember just looking out over Dublin where we were and there was this knocking on the wall, like it was him.

1:07:06And I just remember laying there looking out, all the lights and just tears were just rolling down my eyes, my face. And I just, I was like, what has happened? You know, where did this get so bad? You know, he didn't do anything to me, he never touched me, But it was the psychological, you know, and actually other things I've been through in my life. For me, psychological abuse is worse than physical abuse. I'd rather be hurt than have the mental torture because physical, you heal scars, you know, but it's mental torture. You know, you can't get away from your brain, can you? You can't switch it off.

1:07:51so yeah that was definitely when things started to go bad yeah yeah and I carried I stayed at the agency for maybe a few more months and then I I left in the end one is thank you for sharing that also I think a part that we need to underscore for everyone is where there's a similarity where or where I can empathize and sympathize exactly with you is in how some agents make you feel as if you are reliant on them. Right. There is you are either you you are only in this industry because of them. A hundred percent. I needed I felt he made me feel like I needed him. Yes. During this period, you then enter another relationship and you have a little girl, all right, which is, you become a mom.

1:08:53Yes. Okay. Was becoming a mother, was that on the cards for you? Did you think that was something that, because some people say, you know, I've always aspired to be a mom. others never thought it was for them yeah where did you stand um I never sort of like grew up you know even in my late teens early 20s like being desperate to become a mum but I took for granted that if I wanted to be I would be one and so I was actually told by doctors I'd never be able to have children naturally and it would be very unlikely even if I had a child through IVF so when I was told that I wouldn't when I was told that information it was it was devastating because I had you know everything financially and materialistically in my life but I couldn't have that one thing you know but becoming a mum um it's like it is the best job in the world it's sometimes the hardest job in the world but yeah it's it's a wonderful it's it's wonderful yeah I think when you do a deep dive, especially on someone's Instagram, you know, their profile, you could literally look at how we represent ourselves.

1:10:16And you can tell or there's certain moments where you can distinguish that was an inflection point. There was a change. There was a deep epiphany that that person had. They were coming out of a storm or they were entering a storm. there's something from your Instagram that I'd love it you wrote it, I'd love it if you could read it for us doing a lot of reading today oh my gosh, this is school did you know you were coming to school my class is going up

1:10:51Paul, I'm reading too much this is it thank you you're welcome if you can I feel like this is such a profound moment for you. When you look in the mirror, what do you see? I see a girl that wasn't ready for what she went through. I see the pain and sadness in her eyes from the horror and abuse she endured. But what I also see is a survivor. I see her strength and her fight, and I see the light from her soul that never went out. She is me. My healing journey has been so rewarding. I found out so much about myself and I don't just like me. I love me. I appreciate life so much. The smallest things I used to take for granted now bring me so much happiness.

1:11:40My self-care routine has been pivotal to recovering from abuse. I am in love with life. Never ever let another human being destroy you. No one has power over you. This is your life. So you live it. Yeah, I write that. Okay. Why did you write that?

1:12:04Writing that and putting that on Instagram was the moment that I stopped allowing to be dictated how to live my life and to stop protecting somebody. But by protecting them, I was destroying myself. I'm I you know when people say I'm not playing the victim do you know what I am a victim I'm not going to say I'm not playing the victim because I am a victim I was a victim for of narcissistic abuse for many years for a very very long time and it destroyed me completely in every single way possible if you can as much as you can give us is can you take us to to that storm what what what happened to you for me it was the the lies and the manipulation and then it was the the game playing of when they couldn't get to me anymore they'd send other people when they call them flying monkeys i don't know if you've heard of that before no i don't know my god i'm teaching you something See?

1:13:19Narcissim. Teach me. Shanta, teach me. So basically, when a narcissist can't directly access you anymore, they'll get other people to do it. So, you know, it could be a mutual friend. It could be a family member. It could be, you know, it could be anyone. But they have sent the flying monkey. Okay. Do you see what I mean? Okay. and so I you know all sorts of things used to happen to me I was driving along the road one day I noticed there was a police car behind me I got pulled over and I was told to get out of the car get in the back of their car because I was being held on suspicion of drink and drug driving I don't drink I don't take drugs you know they did the tests it all came back zero and then the police officer told me that it was an anonymous tip that they'd been sent in so you know it was all of that and you know lies and manipulation just to keep you in that hold of the of being fearful of being worried of not being not letting you live because you can't live when you're so scared you know I was it I was hyper vigilant over everything you know I'd even today I still look over my shoulder, you know, and I always will.

1:14:40And I wasn't able to speak up about it because at the point at that time, I didn't even know what it was. I didn't know that, I didn't know what narcissism was. And then when I did it, everything made sense. It just, it all became clear. At what point did you realize you were, you were trapped, you know because how these relationships there's many survivors I've talked to and typically an abuser begins with they're very affable you know everyone like very charismatic and then there's a moment where things begin to switch and then you realize that you're actually trapped yeah what can you describe that moment and and and i say describe it almost in a teaching way so that people who are in a relationship may be able to recognize if that's happening to them i think if you're starting to like question things then there's a problem you know gaslighting, isn't it, you know, makes you, like, think that what you're thinking is not the truth.

1:15:57And so I think if you're at a point where you are questioning your own mind, it's because someone's making you question your own mind because that's the place that they want you to be in to make you feel like you're going mad and your reality is warped. Over what period of time was this happening? Quite a long time. Years? A long time, yeah. Okay. So living through this level of fear, what does that do to you? I mean, how are you able to show up every day and work? and I didn't I couldn't I just took a step back from work completely I I was in no mental state to be working be socializing I was just surviving that is all I did for a very long time was just survive by reading by you know having therapy by relying and reaching out for support when I've needed it I found a way to live my life okay okay I see it so then you are then maybe it's not under fear but you feel under threat all right I'm not putting words in your mouth but it sounds like what you're saying is you feel under threat but you're no longer scared of the threat.

1:17:29Yeah. Okay. Give me your best shot. Yeah, I can see it. That's where I'm at. But what is interesting to me is that you are still under threat. You know? And so I now can even more greatly appreciate you even coming here today. This has been a big deal for me to come here today. Yeah, this is big. I chose to live, and that's why I'm here today, because I choose life. Your mother and your brother, your stepfather, were they shocked when you told them what was happening? No. They weren't? No. So you're saying they had observed this person, and they knew. Yeah. They thought something was going on.

1:18:24Had they warned you? My mum did. But did I listen? No. Yeah. We do that, though, don't we? You think your mum, you know, you think you know everything. And your mum actually does know best after all, doesn't she? Look at that. Look at that. So mum did warn you. Yeah. Multiple times? Twice. Twice. Okay. You are in a new relationship. Yes. Now. Okay. So are you in love? Oh, yes. For the first time really in my life, yeah. I love that man with my whole being. What was it that signaled to you that you could trust him? Do you know, from the very first moment, I knew, I just knew. I've not texted a man, I've not dated a man, I've not had any sexual anything with a man for very many, many, many years before I met my partner.

1:19:29Oh, interesting. By choice? By choice. I was so single because, by choice, but also I hadn't met anyone that I was attracted to. Like, you know, so many people I know are unhappy in their relationships and, you know, they hate their husbands and they're like, oh, God, he's home. I would rather sit on my sofa alone rather than sit on my sofa with somebody and be lonely. Yes. That's how I felt about it. So I was just living life. Anyway, so I just popped out. I was with a friend. I popped out, went to get a coffee. and as I was coming back, you know, blah, blah, minding my own business and there was this dog with this man.

1:20:12This isn't my boyfriend. This is just some random, not random guy, but this guy with a dog. So I love dogs. So I was stroking the dog, having a chat with a guy and blah, blah, blah and I was crouched down and all of a sudden I felt this like presence here, like a person and I looked up and it was my now boyfriend and I looked at him and he looked at me and you know like a moment it was just a moment in time and I just got up and I was like we smiled and then I just went I went running back to my friends and I said I've just made the love of my life I've just made the love of my life she's like oh my goodness what did you say to him and I said nothing I didn't say anything to him anyway we worked she worked out like who he was and um we exchanged numbers and we went out on the first day a couple of weeks later and it's just everything has been so obviously exciting but so easy so comfortable so reassuring so like he looks after me I feel looked after I know how much I know he loves me I know how much he loves me I feel it I literally feel it I've never had that before, that feeling of pure love.

1:21:34I've never had it. I think it's beautiful that you have it. And you could see that there's probably many moments in your life where you thought you'd never have it. Yeah, I never, ever, ever thought I would. I really didn't. and then yeah it was just he was there when I was least expecting it I will be with that man for the rest of my life all right love it and if I'm not it's because he dumped me oh come on come on why would he why would he why would he I think your story is a testament to someone who was just trying to figure out where they fit in this world you know And I think that is more often the case, is that we're all trying to – I always joke I'm trying to figure out who I want to be when I grow up.

1:22:33But it's not necessarily a joke. I'm still trying to figure out exactly where I fit in this world. And I think you've been very honest about that battle and about the challenges that come from not necessarily knowing. but that through the storm and through these traumatic events, you can then heal and in that journey figure out who you are. Yeah. And what's clear is you know exactly who you are today. Yeah. And most importantly, you like the person. I do. I like me. Yeah. Yeah. So, Shanta, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, Paul. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah. Look at that, Chantel.

1:23:24Her story tells us that there's lessons and value that comes from all the partners we have, all the experiences we have, good, bad, and indifferent. And unfortunately, Chantel's had these bad experiences, but she's had good experiences. She's had the indifferent, you know, experiences. And her maturity, the reason why I say that she's so mature today is because she's learned from all of them. Chantel was truly one of the first reality TV OGs. And you could see how that show changed her life. and how she benefited, but then there was also a detriment that came from it. And when I think about what could have helped her through is fully knowing who you are, your identity, having a clear goal as to what you want to get out of the project.

1:24:33and then three is surrounding yourself with a group of good people when you leave that project. All three of those were things that she didn't have and you can see where not having those led to some challenging times for her. Fifteen years after Amy Winehouse, the fingers still pointed at you. I need to take control of my own narrative but not necessarily being accurately represented. Andrey! Drugs made me feel confident. I understand as a young boy, there was an incident that happened. Yeah. I didn't expect you to ask that. I've only just started admitting this to myself. Take me to that evening when you met Amy.

1:25:18When she told me that she was a musician, I was like, oh. But then she said, no, no, like, I'm actually good. So Back to Black, it was about you. Were there any lyrics that surprised you? There's a few perhaps that were a little bit close to the bone.

1:25:38We most definitely would have died for each other. It was more too intense, too fast. So you feel as if you and Amy became addicts together. No, I know for a fact we did. I remember her father visited me in jail and he said, Really? Yeah. Amy was still performing a few weeks before she passed away. You could see in stages, she's not doing well. So when they told me, my first thought was, this is my worst nightmare. Our love had nothing to do with addiction, and addiction had nothing to do with our love. Just before I got told that Amy had passed away, the last letter that I received was, wow, look at that.

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