Chidera Eggerue - Why Women Are Saying No To Traditional Roles!

38:31You're going to start feeling emasculated and this is going to start to affect me and us. So out of the love I have for you, I wouldn't need you to just go do your thing. And if it's meant to be, you'll come find me. I'm not coming down from the top shelf because you can't reach me. I'm so sorry. So then is it that you need to see the result before you see, say, the behavior? So, for example, the behavior that you're attributing to me, which I appreciate, is you're saying, all right, I was ambitious, which I was. And you had potential. So potential based on the resilience maybe and the ambition.

39:09So then if someone's coming to you with ambition or resilience or to anyone out here, they have those characteristics, but they don't yet have the business, the television shows, whatever. like they don't have the football team like they don't have all those things they're not you yeah if they don't have those but they have that all the components to get there to get there then what's your opinion my opinion is when you've blown come find me and to expand on that i always say like what one man is building another man has built and it sounds so oh man but what about love and it's like i'm a woman i don't have the time to wait i'm not going to wait for a man because there are some people who have potential and they never see their potential through and for women we rarely benefit from that dice toss gamble of taking a chance on a man um it's almost like when you're in the airport and there's a conveyor belt you can walk on yes i see the man as that like he's not the destination he's the conveyor belt i can get there quicker with him.

40:14In fact, there are men who I meet who they thrive when they're in a position where they're being of service to a woman. I saw that happen recently in a conversation that came to the service about Nick Cannon and Mariah Carey, where Nick Cannon was expressing that during his period of being married to Mariah Carey, she was high flying and successful and had all the money and she would express to him that all she wants from him is love. And so there were times when he would feel really embarrassed as a man because he's just holding the nappy bags and he doesn't really know what else he can do really because she's on tour and she's doing all the things and she's the breadwinner and he didn't feel useful.

40:54And even though I don't agree that people have to insert money into love to feel useful, this is how men see themselves. This is how patriarchy operates. That's interesting. So you would say that that's one of the reasons for the demise of that relationship of Nick Cannon and Mariah Carey. For sure. His manhood was impacted by her success. I adore your ideas and your, and I see what you do too. I think you're very clever, is that it's like saggy boobs matter. It's like you will position something in a loud way and the ignorant folks just, you just eat them up. Like you eat them up easily. Like it's like child's play.

41:39Like you eat them up. But then it causes, I think, healthy debate. For sure. And debate is what destroys ignorance. And that's what I love. So I love that about your work. But now, is that about being a man? Or is that someone who just has an issue with self-esteem? Is that someone who has an issue with self-worth? You know, is it about his manhood? Or is it about self-esteem and ego? Most men have an issue of self-esteem and ego because what men pride their manhood on, ironically, is their success, is their money, is the size of their dick. And as much as we spend time trying to encourage men to see themselves as a full multidimensional human being and we try to remind men that you're a person, it's okay to have feelings, it's okay to see yourself beyond the vessel you've been born into.

42:32they still insist on clinging onto those patriarchal ideas about themselves. And that's the prison that they have unfortunately locked themselves in. And they are happily wearing that key. They don't care to dismantle the structures anytime soon. So that's why we see that, you know, when a man finally comes into money, it's often the reason why the woman who he came up with, he leaves her and he goes for the women that he couldn't get while he was still with the woman who built him up to where he is when a man comes into money the first thing he does is covers himself in flashy things to attract women who are drawn to men who represent success because what people refer to as oh like gold diggers and women who only want to be around successful men it's not about being drawn to success on the surface it's about being drawn to safety and recognising that financial safety is important.

43:29Your financial status reflects the quality of your life. And I think that there are components that we refuse to acknowledge and we'd rather just say that, you know, that's just an isolated issue when this is patriarchy, this is misogyny, this is the idea that a woman can be big but not too big because if you're too big you're going to, like, overshadow the man and you want to still give him room to feel like he's doing something. But then you don't want to give that man too much power where he feels like he can control you. Dating is not mandatory to live a full life. Dating is a choice. So if you're making certain choices, it's important to interrogate those choices.

44:11I know a lot of women make jokes, including myself, like, oh my God, I didn't choose to be straight. But we can choose who we date, though. True. This is true. So if you look throughout the history, I'm with you. Marriage, very pragmatic. It was about safety, in particular for the woman, which, by the way, you know, in many metropolitan areas around the world, women are out-earning men. For sure, especially with this influencer boom. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. And people like to get on OnlyFans. Like, I mean, it is absolutely. And, you know, so you could see women out-earning men at a certain point, women out-educating men.

44:49You're seeing this happening, right? Then having more assets, et cetera. So you could see a point where in terms of the economics of the world, there's a balance, which I think you and I, we want this. Did you ever say that marriage is sex work? I did, yeah. And I expanded and I said that marriage is the lowest paid form of sex work. And people were really annoyed about it. The lowest. Yes. The lowest paid form of sex work. I believe marriage is the lowest paid form of sex work within the dynamic of cis-hetero marriage between man and woman. How so? The reason why I say that is because when we look at the origins of marriage and we observe this ongoing growing trend of the trad wife becoming this thing that we're seeing everywhere, is this idea that the woman is there to serve and to be the homekeeper and the idealized arrangement is that the man makes the money he financially takes care of the home and you get love and acceptance and the title of wife in return and now when we look at marriages just more commonly within our local sphere outside of the sensationalized trad wife content what we're seeing a lot is many unhappily married people specifically women I receive a lot of messages from women who tell me that in their marriage they essentially have to so they have to but they feel like they have to perform sexual favors for their husband in order things to be done whether that's for example I don't know if you might have seen this flying around on the internet there was an interview between Katy Perry and Alex Cooper on Alex Cooper's podcast called Call Her Daddy and Katy Perry was saying that within her marriage to Orlando Bloom if he closes the cupboards and you know cleans the dishes and he's going to get his dick sucked as essentially a reward for closing the cupboard washing the plates right just being a tidy human being so we see a bartering system in place here where outside of katie perry because katie perry's statement is representative of what a lot of women are doing in their marriages where you do that thing he likes and then you get a particular need met now a lot of people found issue with what i said because there's this idea that the sex worker versus the married woman are in completely different worlds where hierarchically speaking the married woman is at the top of the hierarchy because she's married she's been chosen she's done the thing she's got the ring but the sex worker is positioned towards the bottom of the power structure because of how society views women who engage with men for financial benefit and the shaming surrounding that.

47:56And so the whole pushback towards me referring to marriage and sex work was rooted in this place for married women saying, how dare you liken me to a sex worker? I am not a sex worker. When in reality, as long as you're choosing to partner with men, there is an element of using your sexuality to get what you want. and within sex work sex work exists on a spectrum so there are more physical forms of sex work which would probably call full service sex work which involves sleeping with someone and doing more physical acts and then when we look towards the complete opposite side of the spectrum of sex work there are things like for example phone sex operators there are dominatrixes there are people who sell foot pictures, whilst what they're doing might not immediately come across to us as sex work based on a definition we've all been taught.

48:56It's all this idea of selling your sensuality and exchanging your erotic interactions for you to get something that you want. There are married women who are reluctantly having sex with their husbands, who are reluctantly engaging in sexual favours because they know that that's what's going to make sure that The bills are going to get paid this month. The kids' school uniform is going to be paid for. They're essentially taking one for the team, the team being them and their kids. And then there are married women who recognize the power that they hold within the institution and infrastructure of marriage.

49:30And this is how I would behave if I was a married woman, where I want to go on vacation to X, Y, Z. So I'm not going to have sex with him for a while. and when I know that I want to ask him or pose the idea of this thing that I really want us to do I know that if I bring a tit out he's likely to say yes or if I engage sexually with him if I have sex with him if I do the thing he likes we're getting closer to the thing that I want to do so I'm using my sexuality to my benefit because I can and because it's a power and because I know that is going to reap the result I want. Also, off the back of that question, sex is a huge cornerstone theme when we talk about marriage, so much so that within religion, especially Christianity, virginity is such a huge concept.

50:20There is an emphasis that's placed on sex, especially on the woman's body, even culturally speaking. Where I'm from in Nigeria, we have something called a bride price. Yes. And, you know, it's icky to talk about on the surface because bride price, that's interesting. Like you're essentially, for lack of better wording, you're offering the bride's family a bunch of assets and gifts in exchange for their daughter. but it's not entirely in exchange for their daughter. It's also a gesture of me saying, I present you these gifts as a way to express that I intend to take your daughter seriously. I intend to treat her well.

51:04Please receive these gifts as a gesture of my intention of seriousness and also partially as a way to kind of compensate for the resources of human labor they're about to lose by losing their daughter. It's a thankless job most of the time. For a lot of women, they're enslaved and they're unhappy. And that sounds really extreme to say. That's pretty bold. It's bold to say, but we have to recognize that we're having this conversation and we're discussing marriage largely through the lens and lived experience of being Westerners. You know, there are parts of the world, including Nigeria, where Nigeria is amongst the countries with the highest domestic violence rates.

51:45Intimate partner violence is even worse in Nigeria. it's super normalized for men to beat their wives. And, you know, sometimes men will complain to the pastor or to complain to the wife's family that she's not having enough sex with me. She's not sexual enough. I'm not attracted to her. A lot of this emphasis is placed on the woman sexually servicing the man. So again, when we bring this back to my comment I made about marriage and sex work being tied, if we could all like relax and shed our stigma towards sex work, We can focus on what the machinations of marriage actually look like, how women are treated in marriage, and why, if we're going to refer to marriage as sex work, what we can do to make it safer for women.

52:30Because whether we agree or disagree on marriage and sex work being linked, there is still an expectation of labor that's placed on women. And women still, for the most part, have to use sex as a way to navigate their marriages. Yeah. So, you know, what's so interesting is I think I can talk to you for days on each one of these topics. And this one in particular is near and dear to my heart because I've studied, I'm married, I've studied marriage for quite some time. And a lot of what you're saying will be abrasive to many people. But you know what? I agree with a large percentage of it. Some of it I don't.

53:09But the large percentage of it, I do. I think that marriage is an institution that needs to be, that must be transformed. And to your point of, well, I mean, you called it women enslaved. I mean, pretty much that's what you said marriage is. I would argue that for a large percentage, according to research I've done, a large percentage of marriage has low satisfaction. And there's lots of nefarious things happening in those marriages. But then there's also a percentage of marriage, 20%, right? This is according to research by Eli Finkel out of the States. But 20 % of marriages actually have a higher satisfaction rate than the history of all marriages since marriage has been tracked.

53:53And I think that what we need to do is we need to look more cognitively, intelligently around what's happening in that 20 % of marriages and also vis-a-vis what's happening in these 80 % of marriages. And we need to do away with this. One of the things that I advocate for and I get pushback on is I think that marriage should be much, much harder to enter and much, much easier to exit. So what I mean by that is in order to be married, shouldn't just simply be in many places in the world, you could literally pay a small fee, sign your name, done. You could be coerced, et cetera. You go to Vegas, do it in a drive-thru.

54:36You know what I mean? Right. Whereas if you want to exit that marriage in most areas around the world, it's six months to two years. And it's costly. It's costly. There's all types of violence happening within, you know, you're coerced to stay in, etc. So I think what we need to do is we need to make it much harder to enter. It needs to be rigorous to enter because I think going to economics is that if it's harder, then we place more value and more rigor in determining whether or not this is something that we want to do. I need to come clean and tell you about the love affair I've been having these last two years.

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55:57So whether I'm traveling, on set, or recording, I know Huel will keep me feeling good. If you're tempted to have a love affair of your own, visit Huel.com and use code Paul for 15 % off your next order. that's h-u-e-l dot com when it comes to love we're all on our own journey and that means any advice we're given should be tailored to our love goals not someone else's this is where my show and tinder who sponsor this podcast have teamed up to help you each week on we need to talk I'll explore love and relationships through a different lens so you can get the advice that relates to your romantic situation tinder is for all types of relationships, and I truly believe it has the best tools to help you form the connections you're looking for.

56:47That might be long-term commitment or short-term experiences. Maybe it's friendship, but regardless of which part of the journey you're on, Tinder and I are here to support you. Their app is full of possibilities, and it's designed to help you explore every kind of connection. It starts with a swipe, so download Tinder today. Let's talk about this subject. This is one where I've actually written about this one. This is hypergamy. Yes. Okay. So it's interesting because, you know, we were tracking the mentions of hypergamy since 2004 on Google. And it just, it looks like a ski slope, you know, going up.

57:28Lots of people are interested in hypergamy. So how would you define hypergamy and how does it play a role in how we date? So the basic definition of hypergamy is dating upwards. So dating someone who has more resources than you. And this largely pertains towards the perspective of the woman being the one who's dating upwards. And I wouldn't be surprised if the data you saw, the rise in hypergamy being searched for as a term post-pandemic or during the pandemic. Yes, yes. Why so? The reason why I think is, number one, like economic change for everybody. Number two, we're all at home and we're watching people's lives.

58:12We're now seeing where people live and how they're living. We're now seeing what kind of bedding they use. They're telling us everything because we're all at home and bored. And overnight, everyone's become a content creator. So we're now seeing how rich people are living. we're now seeing people romanticizing their marriages we're now seeing the birth of the rise of the trad wife content we're now seeing people making banana bread in designer kitchen wear we're like wow that looks really nice i want a bit of that this is quiet luxury at what point does hypergamous dating become men you know dating in a hypergamous way let's say at the moment you know 20 000 women out of 100 000 are earning men and within the next 20 years it's now 70 000 women out earning men well the reality is like there are still going to be men who will make more money and we're only speaking for this portion of the world we're in right this is true so i think for me it's like no matter how much this conversation of hypergamy evolves or no matter how much women earn we should still aim higher and higher and higher for ourselves your baseline needs to be you don't need men for anything there's a recent conversation i've been having with women where off the back of the rise of what is now going to be the next thing now the 4b movement you might have seen conversations bubbling to the surface about yes something that started in korea the 4b movement essentially is a movement that was radically created by women who want to completely abstain and divest from anything to do with men in a more extreme manner because of the rising femicide rates, the extreme misogyny, so much so that feminist is a dirty word in Korea and can warrant violence being enacted upon you as a woman.

1:00:02And so now that Trump has been voted into presidency again, I started seeing conversations from American and Western women discussing we need to have our own 4B movement and I was like there's never going to be a 4B movement in the West because most women are too male-centered and I think for a lot of women they they can't envision a life without men so I was recently talking about if you really truly are independent as a woman you shouldn't even be sleeping with men on the excuse of well I'm going to sleep with him and just get my orgasms from him and then send him away. Because it's the idea of you're still needing men.

1:00:44You can make your own orgasms if you really wanted to. Or if you really had that relationship with your body. I don't like the way he spoke to me on Tuesday. I'm just not going to see him. Even if he's got the money. Because I have everything I need. But it's about if a man wants to be in my life, he needs to really make my life easier. And he needs to have an exceptional role he's playing. Or else he's not a need, he's a want. He's a want. I don't even want him. All right. You said a few things in there that I want to come back to. Let's start with 4B, 4B movement, because this is something that I've been tracking for quite some time, too.

1:01:16And what I find interesting, and this is once again, I was like, oh, my God, I'm agreeing with you again, is that I think what happened, and this is Trump, and this is TikTok, this is like the downside of TikTok, is that there was this assumption that every woman in Korea was 4B, right? Like no dating, like no men, no sex, no kids, 4B, 4B. Now, I was a matchmaker forever. One of my good friends runs one of the largest matchmaking agencies in Korea. And do you know what the demand is for services? You would think 4B movement. Nobody goes to her service. everyone the the the demand for matchmakers and date coaches and the demand on dating apps in korea through the roof through the roof higher than it's ever been most women and most men in korea they're seeking each other right but 4b was this small it was a very small movement and a bunch of folks really on TikTok jumped on it and said, this is what they're doing.

1:02:25This is what we should be doing. But it goes back to your point. Your point is you said, okay, it's because women, most women want men in their lives. And I agree with this. I think that we want each other. Like I always say, marriage is not for everyone, but I don't think we were built to do life alone. It is about having partnership and emotional intimacy, which doesn't mean you need to have the physical sexual intimacy as well but the physical but a healthy physical and sexual intimacy just adds it elevates the emotional intimacy you know for 4b okay i'm with you but on that note you talked about trump i'm american right i see what's happened.

1:03:11For me, the perception is that there's a large level of fear around a woman's autonomy as a result of the administration. So how do you believe that that then impacts relationships as a result? Because it's not just the United States. You're seeing this, in my opinion, in Poland. You're seeing it in Hungary. You saw it in Korea, right? You see administrations come in and the overall perception is that a woman's autonomy as a result of that administration is going to be less than it was previously. So what's your perspective on, okay, what should, as a woman, how do you navigate that? What's interesting about that, Paul, is that as we see...

1:03:58an increase of political infrastructures that reduce the autonomy women have over their bodies. on an immediate social level we see that reflected in the men around us so there's a rise in red pill content these are all happening like at the same time as each other and that's not a coincidence and it's not a coincidence as well that we're seeing a rise in trad wife content being pushed to the forefront so we're seeing red pill content which is extreme misogyny we're seeing the rise of trad wife content which supports the ideas that these misogynistic men want to see which is a world where women are docile subservient and quiet we're seeing a rise in politics that support the idea that women shouldn't have full autonomy over their bodies and so it leaves women with the question of especially american women it's now like okay well if i sleep with someone and i can't have an abortion i guess i'm going to have to be more picky about who I'm sleeping with then, which puts women in more danger because we will see a rise in rape statistics.

1:05:07At the same time, for those of us who live in countries like the UK at the moment where we don't have those strict laws about abortion at the moment, even though we're not affected by what's happening in the US, the general attitude towards men has affected us here too where we're also looking at men differently because Trump didn't get there by himself. Men voted for him but there were also women who voted for Trump too and those women a lot of them are married to the men who voted for Trump and a lot of women are so male-centered that they will choose men before they choose solidarity with other women.

1:05:47So a lot of times when we see this current divide we're living through the onus is placed on women to just like why is there a gender the war we need to just be more accepting and even the red pill men like their ultimate cause here is that they just want women to sleep with them and love them and accept them as they are and allow them to exert misogyny on women and we're saying we don't want to do that we don't like you you're insufferable and you stink and so there comes a rise in creators like myself who are bubbling closer and closer to the cultural forefront because there is an appetite for ideas that encourage women to divest from men as the center of your world and replace that with yourself.

1:06:38Because I get a lot of pushback from men who hate my ideas. Somebody must have hurt you. It's this whole idea. You know, a woman has to have been hurt to have high standards is the idea behind it. Okay. So then I have to ask if it's too private. Just say, Paul. Fast forward. Paul, read the room. Stop that. But so you don't need to have sex with men. And I know that you've mentioned in the past, you've said that you are asexual. Yes, I'll describe myself as gray asexual. Okay. And okay, I'm with you. If you could explain what gray asexual is for everyone. So within my definition of gray asexual, I will first explain what asexual is because a lot of people are more familiar with that term.

1:07:23and I think there's a lot of preconceptions. Asexual essentially describes a person who doesn't feel romantic or sexual attraction towards other people. They're just not somebody who is necessarily driven by their sexual urges or feels inclined to act on them. And at the same time, they still crave closeness with other people. They still are in community with others. They're capable of loving and they navigate intimacy differently. So it might be that for some asexual people, they feel closeness to their partner when they're holding hands or maybe like a really tight hug but they just don't feel sexually inclined it doesn't mean that they're broken or mentally ill they just don't feel like they need to have sex now where gray asexual comes in because sexuality is on a spectrum and the gray part of asexuality which is where I sit on the spectrum is I can go another 10 years right now without having sex with a man and not feel like I've lost out on anything it doesn't mean that I don't experience sexual attraction to men doesn't mean that I haven't experienced romantic attraction to men in fact the last time I slept with a man was 2021 and that was nice while it lasted but for me I'm not somebody who feels impulse driven by my sexual urges I have a loss I would say it's like having the self-restraint of a sensei when it comes to sexed.

1:08:50Whereas people who are not asexual at all and are probably more on the casual sex side of things, and this is not an insult when I say it, but in terms of describing that polarity between self-restraint of a sensei, the more casual sex havers, those who are more impulsively driven by their sexual urges, probably self-restraint of a five-year-old. And what I mean by that is if you think of the example of do you remember in the pandemic when parents would put their phone like they'll place their phone somewhere and they'll bring their toddler or their young child into the room and they'll say i'm gonna leave the room and i'm gonna leave this bag of sweets here don't touch the sweets okay we'd come back the sweets are in open yes because the child hasn't got any self-restraint now i liken that to the people especially women who they come across a guy they're attracted to and they immediately feel the need to have sex with that guy they're just I can't control it.

1:09:43I just really like it. Yes. I'm the complete opposite where you can leave that bag of sweets in the room and you come back and I didn't even touch the bag. Like, I don't want to be pissed off at 8 a.m. because you haven't messaged me. Yeah. You know, and I think that that becomes a thing after you started sleeping with someone. We talk about expectations of people and there's some people that would argue you shouldn't and you should. We all develop expectations of people once you slept with them. If that expectation is a good morning text. Right. Or if the expectation is. There's some attachment.

1:10:11There is some attachment. Science shows that intimacy triggers the release of oxytocin, often called the bonding hormone, which can create emotional attachment and expectations even when we don't intend it. This is why physical connection often leads to desires for emotional validation, like a good morning text or deeper commitment. Understanding this helps us approach intimacy with honesty about our needs, boundaries, and the expectations it may bring. When we align intimacy with clear communication and mutual understanding, we create a space for connection that respects both parties, their boundaries, and needs.

1:10:54Intimacy isn't just physical. It's the way we navigate the expectations it inevitably brings. as of recent there's a lot of conversation around demisexuality right which is which is all there emotional connection and exactly you you need that and then you go all the way to allosexual yeah which is like hey casual sexual let's just do it you know like the whole and i think what's beautiful is for everyone to understand you know what we're all on the scale somewhere i'm sorry it doesn't mean that you're all just allosexual and if you're not allosexual, it doesn't mean something is wrong with you.

1:11:33And I think that's the key message. So I love that you're talking about that. But so because of that, I have to ask, you are a dominatrix. Yes. And so this is where what I have loved about you coming here is it's pushed me into more research around what is a dominatrix etc but i always ignorantly associated being a dominatrix with sex or bdsm with with sex yeah but you haven't had sex in four years right so and and so if you can explain what is what is bdsm what what what and and and what is what is being a dominatrix what does that mean so bdsm is all about exploring power dynamics between yourself and consenting partners consent is the overarching keyword in all of this everything is entirely consensual and it's about exploring kink in a way that feels safe so what a lot of people commonly associate with BDSM is like latex and whips and maybe even Catwoman because she is like the more culturally familiar idea of a dominant woman with her whip and her leather and the way that she pounces on men and makes them do what she says.

1:12:59Can I say this is truthfully, this is what I always pictured. I pictured latex. I pictured a woman with a whip, Catwoman, a man with like a like a like a nozzle on on all fours that's the case a lot of the time like he's he's eating dog food he's eating dog food he's being whipped while he's eating dog food and then there's sex and then like that that's how i've always but this is not the case so what's interesting especially with sex coming into the conversation of dominatrix is we don't have sex with the men if at all we do it's almost like how do i phrase it so there's such a thing as one of the components of dominating a man is something called chastity okay which is there's a thing called a chastity cage and it's a little like apparatus and the man can wear it on his penis and it's locked so the woman holds the key so his penis is quite literally locked so there's only so many things you can do with your penis if it's locked which is very few things i mean occasionally he's allowed to unlock it with the woman's consent to just like clean himself but it has to be locked and that's for a duration of time that's agreed upon by him and the mistress and what happens is if she decides to have sex with him when you think about like a man being aroused but his penis is locked right the arousal can't it can't it can't manifest physically he can't physically have a hard-on because his dick is locked but mentally there is so much going on for him like it's like a it's like a very heightened form of edging almost edging yes edging as in like when you're having sex with someone in a non-bDSM context like let's talk about in a vanilla way briefly if you're edging someone it's normally the idea of like when the person's close to having an orgasm you stop so that the sex can last longer but in BDSM especially in the context of a dominatrix and her submissive man edging him is while he's locked in chastity you're making him do things that are of service to you whether that's it can range from you making him carry out house chores and him being obedient and you're rewarding rewarding him with a pat on the head of saying good boy making him kiss your feet um instructing him to pleasure you orally and again all while he's locked so he's psychologically in a place where he's of service to you and he's also very excited and so when you decide that you're going to unlock the cage and he's allowed to have an actual full on hard-on like you're probably not going to be able to even have actual sex with him when you see just like stroke your finger across and he's gonna not because he's so he's yeah so like psychologically charged yeah like it's such heightened overall all right but and that's in the case of of sex but you're saying in most scenarios we don't have sex you don't have sex so there's there's a dominate there's a dominatrix which is typically a woman yes and then a submissive typically a man typically a man how how does the dominatrix and submissive even connect like how do you find each other are there parties apps so there are such a thing as play parties which are parties that are put on for people in the kink community and everybody in that room is somewhat involved in kink so there are play parties where it's specifically femdom which is female dominance so it's femdom themed so the women are all dominatrixes in the room and all the men are assumed to be submissive and so you can kind of network and maybe engage in some consensual like leash play or foot play now even in non-bdsm environments i'm talking like even in just like the vanilla world there are men who are still submissive but because the context of their atmosphere doesn't require them to show up as submissive there are more subtle signs you can tell for example sometimes if i'm on the train and maybe like i have one leg crossed over the other and I'm like twirling my shoe, or if it's in the summer and it's like sandal season so your toes are visible, you're like twirling your toes while your foot is crossed over the other foot and a man in front of you, if I notice he keeps on looking at my feet occasionally, like to test to see if he's submissive, I might like hold eye contact with him briefly and then look at my feet and twirl my feet again and see if he goes red or see if he...

1:17:35Really? Yeah, like there are subtle ways to tell if a man's submissive. So being submissive then or in being a dominatrix, you're saying it's a part of our psychology. It's okay. So it's like, so it's a part of our psychology, but it's a, is it a behavior that's learned as well? Yes and no. The reason I say yes and no is because when we speak about the yes part of my answer as a structure between men and women, Men are supposed to be of service to women and men thrive when they are assigned tasks by women and they are given the validation of good boy or given the validation of feeling like they have done something for a woman.

1:18:24And this isn't even just talking sexually. It's just the idea of feeling useful. Okay. I noticed that across men as a group. But then when I say no, it's not entirely a preset. It's because there are some men who grew up with very dominant mothers. And it's something that they just look for in women. They're just drawn to it. Some men, when I ask them, how did you realize you were submissive? Some of them will say to me when they were on the playground and they were like five, they used to get bullied by girls and they secretly really liked being bullied by girls. And now as a man in his 30s, he just he just really likes mean women.

1:19:06He likes women who make him feel like he's not good enough. There are extremes to everything in society, right? Like even living kink, there are men who who enjoy humiliation and degradation to a place where they like being weed on or they like being spat on by various women. They like women taking their tampons out and throwing it on them. And this sounds quite gross because it is gross, but they like that it's gross. They like the idea that it's so humiliating that a woman would treat them as a trash can. And that's the M, the masochism piece. So you love, because quite honestly, I didn't even know what the BDSM stood for, right?

1:19:48It's bondage, domination, discipline, S being submission, but also sadist, where you like to exert the pain, if you will. And then the masochism, the M, where you like to receive it. And that is pain. I mean, to get hit with a tampon. Or it's pain to be told that that's why your dad never loved you. There are some men who really love to be verbally humiliated. What I experience a lot, like the kind of men who I attract are white men who specifically want to be verbally humiliated and dominated by a black woman who demands reparations from them. I attract white men who want to be told that they are inferior to black women and that no matter how hard they try to climb the power structure, they will always be powerless and they're never going to get the validation they wanted from their dad.

1:20:46Like they really love when I verbally tear them apart. Wow. And so when you. OK, let's break this down. Everyone excuse me because I need to go into detail on this. Please, please. is so you connect at parties. I'm sorry, we call them - Play parties. Some of them, they find me online. They find you online. Because especially with my podcast, there's a guy who recently found me from my podcast. And even though my podcast isn't necessarily a dominatrix podcast, the way I talk about men has an undertone of a dominant woman. So they know how, Just like how I was making the example of if you're on a train and you twirl your feet and the guy's looking and you can tell you're submissive.

1:21:29Men can also identify a dominant woman without her saying anything. Okay. Just by her demeanor. So they know this and then they reach out to you or they're at the play party. So in order just to communicate with you, do they have to fill out a form? What are they doing? So if it's online, for example, if they meet me on Twitter, because I have a Twitter account for my dominatrix persona, if they meet me on Twitter, they have to pay a£100 tribute fee as an introduction fee for them to have the permission to introduce themselves to me. and that tribute fee doesn't grant them anything. They're not entitled to my time.

1:22:10It's just a gesture of them honoring the opportunity to say hello to me. This is who I am, goddess. I find you beautiful and I would like to serve you. A hundred pounds. A hundred pounds, okay. And you are a goddess? Goddess Gina. Goddess Gina. Yes. Okay, and you created that. Created that, yes. So this is a persona, but this is you as well. It's me as well. Okay, all right. So you're goddess Gina to them. They reach out, they pay a tribute fee,£100, and they're able to send you a message. They will send me a message. Okay. And they talk about how beautiful they find me and how powerful they find me.

1:22:46And for some of these men, it doesn't even get to a place where we discuss them wanting to maybe have a session in a dungeon. So a session is where you are in an environment. It could be a dungeon. It could be maybe it's a hotel, but largely for the most part, it's a dungeon because that's where all the equipment and the tools are. You go to a dungeon together and you can have a session where you carry out the kinks, whether it's flogging or foot worship or making them kneel down and face the wall and you ignore them. There are men who pay to just ignore them. And so with me, what I find is that I attract a lot of men who want to be financially dominated.

1:23:27so financial domination is another strand of femdom where men enjoy being told what to do with their money by women they find powerful and so it requires a lot of creativity on the woman's part to navigate financial domination because if you tell a man give me 500 pounds now yeah i mean he probably will do it if he's already like in that space of the kink and he wants to but if you create a framework or like a task that surrounds him giving you the 500 pounds now we're in the play of it this is where it becomes fun for both people so recently there was a guy who I made him write an essay about how amazing I am and I charged him 100 pounds to submit the essay to me but there was also a 250 pound penalty fee if he submitted the essay late and then for the second draft with all the updated amendments he still submitted that late for one other reason charged him the penalty and he also had to pay the submission fee so before you know i've made like six seven hundred pounds of this essay and he so he's he has literally sent you the the money so it's your money oh absolutely and i don't and i don't owe him sex he's not going to stalk me and kill me for seven hundred pounds and the reason why i'm confident in that is because this He's a man who he's got a lot of money.

1:24:52And men like this who send women like me money, I'm not the only one they're sending money to. This is a kick of this. So it just so happens that I have his letter. I have his letter here. He's a very articulate person. Very educated. Very educated. I mean, obviously, we can't disclose his identity. No, there's nothing identifiable about him in the essay. But actually, can I read this? Please. Just a couple of pieces. Of course. This is so fascinating to me. So he wrote, Many of the sentiments that Goddess Gina publicly expresses resonate with me. As a middle-aged white male, I am blissfully aware that I have been given an unfair advantage in life.

1:25:50Opportunities were offered to me due to long-established discriminatory social biases. Right? And, I mean, this is a full letter. He continues, imagining being of service to his owner is an obsessive routine for any submissive. My mind is constantly drawn into dreaming ways I can make my owner's life more comfortable while becoming more selfless. I find a superior goddess can extract most from her submissives by understanding their mindset and playing on the weaknesses and insecurities, but also by establishing an environment in which her submissives can thrive and grow. So you are the owner. Well, I haven't.

1:26:40So at the time when he wrote this essay, part of it was like he was pitching himself to be owned by me. So I don't currently own him. He still has to work to being owned by me. Okay. And the idea of ownership, it's intentional language that is used within the king space to imply that the person who owns the subordinate is the person who is superior. And even though, as he said by himself, he's a white middle aged man, the idea of him being owned by a black goddess, it means something to him. Yes. Because he talks about reparations. He's very self-aware about, there's a part in the essay where he mentions that if he was to have the chance to even serve me in person, that he would make sure that he arranges a spa day for me beforehand and that I am chauffeured to the location of where he's going to serve me, that it would be such an honor for him to be able to just be used by me.

1:27:39It's very interesting to hear a man say that. Especially, you know, he picked his, can I give the identity, the name that he picked? Yes. Okay. Because this is the end. He says, to this end, I would pick my super zero identity as slave tux. Since the end of the 19th century, the tuxedo has assumed the dominant position in international men's fashion. It is a symbol of success reserved to the elite. But it has most importantly been used during colonialism as a tool to impose a new social hierarchy and belittle the local populations. I hope that wearing shackles on a tuxedo would help goddess Gina create the kind of iconic image she is looking for.

1:28:29There will be no greater satisfaction than witnessing goddess Gina accomplishing her life ambitions to establish her new world order of matriarchy, making a significant impact on women's lives via a complete power exchange. So there's so much going on in there. He paid to send this. Yes. Yeah. What people don't understand about this lifestyle is that they think that the submissive men are just these like sleazy, unloved, uneducated, broke men who live in their mom's basement. There are men who, like this guy, very educated, very aware of the world, very privileged, and they know where they want to put that privilege.

1:29:12And they understand how their power has afforded them the safety to even want to engage in this as a lifestyle. Yes. Like, what a privilege. So what blew me away most in my research about BDSM was that when studying people who participate in BDSM, on average, they are equal or greater to the remaining public in openness traits, being conscientious, being, you know, kind. Yes, and safe. And safe. I know. So help me understand, what is he feeling? What's the drive to do this? Because it's play with you. Yeah. Because he doesn't have you as a dominant for his entire life. He's only during sessions.

1:30:09He does. So we've actually never met. But he sent me in total over 2 ,000 pounds, which in the world of femdom, that's not even that much money. Is it? There are men, yeah. There are men who, I know somebody, a fellow dominatrix, who a man, she's based in Canada, and a man in Germany sent her£25 ,000 within the space of 24 hours. It wasn't one giant transaction, but over the space of 24 hours. I mean. They've never met. this this is i mean this is a whole um it's mind-blowing yeah community yeah that i yeah i had no idea so what do you get out of it because i would imagine especially because if you love for fun i mean you're getting paid also but what is psychologically and emotionally what's what's going on for you i enjoy the psychological power that comes with dominating a man who is in on it with me what i don't enjoy is the idea of like trying to convert a man you know because sometimes in this community or even in the vanilla world you'll meet men who describe themselves as dominant and there are a lot of dominant men who target women that they perceive as dominant too and they kind of want to like see if they can bend that woman into submission for the satisfaction of it yes i don't have to receive any satisfaction from changing a man's mind and like making him submit to me i receive satisfaction from men who already they are already submissive and it's in their nature and for me the satisfaction is well how can i use my own style of dominance and communication to get what i want from them right and this is something that takes experience wit and talent you're basically you're barely different to an improv comedian because it is largely improv what you are doing you're leading a scene even if you're texting a guy who's a submissive Like even that interaction that me and him had that led to him writing the essay, that virtual interaction just via DMs is a scene because I'm now instructing him.

1:32:17So even the PDF document that I sent him of my requirements for the essay was very verbosely worded, very specific. And part of that is the kink for him. It's like, oh, she's told me my deadline is Friday, 11 p.m. And like has to be 750 words and there's clear bullet points. And for me, what I get out of it as well is like, I'm enjoying this feeling of creating this arbitrary task that has so many specific components. And there's a thrill of knowing that like he might be like, actually, I don't want to do this. Like nothing is ever guaranteed. Right. Even this guy, as much as he sent me£2 ,000, at the moment he's blocked.

1:32:55Okay. He didn't do anything to impose on my safety or to do anything necessarily bad. But I've created arbitrary rules within my dynamic with him where what happened was. I believe that he was going to a gala or something and it involved a tuxedo that he was wearing. And he told me that as he was getting ready, putting on his tuxedo, he was having fantasies about me dominating him in the tuxedo. So I gave him not a task, but I said to him, well, when you come back from the event, I want to hear specific details about what you fantasized about. And I gave him a few bullet points. And I think what happened was that the event happened till late in the night and he got home and he was really tired.

1:33:39And he never replied to me. And I said to him, well, for ignoring me, you owe me 300 pounds for that. And in the past, like when I've given him that kind of penalty, he's paid it. But this time he didn't pay it. He didn't say no, but he didn't pay it. And in the past, he's done something like this and I've blocked him before. So I blocked him for that because this is part of our dynamic. I blocked him and the only way he can reach me is via Revolut. So what happened was in the past when I blocked him, out of nowhere, he sent me 250 pounds. Revolut is a banking app. So out of nowhere, he sent me 250 pounds on Revolut.

1:34:15He didn't put any payment note, just 250 pounds. So I knew that that was his way of trying to come back into the picture. so I unblocked him on Twitter which is our main place of communicating okay when I unblocked him I said I saw the 250 pounds you sent double it he doubled it so now he sent me 500 in total that's how we became in good books and he sent the essay so now that he has been badly behaved not only does he owe me 300 pounds which he's gonna have to pay if he wants to come back into the picture there's still a separate fee of unblocking which is probably going to be 500 pounds for now so in total I'm going to get 800 pounds from him and if he can't pay it then And we have nothing to talk about.

1:34:49Like, I don't engage in this lifestyle from a place of, like, needing the money. It's just the principle. And that's why when you don't need men for anything, whether you're in BDSM or in vanilla interactions with them, you can really have fun with it. And ironically, people might ask me, like, what do you do with the money these guys give you? So I'll tell you what I do with the money. I buy groceries. I pay for my utility bills. I do burlesque performing. So I pay for my costumes. Like costumes are quite expensive. You know, the corsets and the rhinestones and the headpieces. So all the money that men give me, I pour it back into my hobbies and my passions.

1:35:28I don't use the money men give me to buy designer items because men buy me designer gifts anyway. Like this necklace is a Shiroski necklace and it was gifted by a sub who he's blocked like a year ago. It's a really nice necklace. The thing is, when men buy me things and I've cut them off, the reason why I don't get rid of it is because I like to look at the things men have got me and I'm like, this is what I'm capable of. These are my spoils. I've collected. That whole community I find to be so interesting. I guess I can ask a million questions, but the last question I have on that community is these men.

1:36:05So this particular men, slave tucks. Slave tucks. Slave tucks. He's going to love this, by the way. Is he in a relationship? Yes.

1:36:18So, from what he told me, because I take what men tell me at face value, especially in this community. He told me he's in the process of a divorce. Okay. I don't know what that means when men say that. When men say things like, oh, I'm in the process of separating him, I'm in the process of divorce. for all I know, he could be happily married. But sometimes men say these things to make themselves feel better about what they're doing. And also you mentioned earlier that that could be part of the kink. Yes. It's that he knows. He's enjoying. He's writing. His wife is in bed, you know, but he's still writing this letter to you.

1:36:56That's part of the, you know, the arousal for him. For sure. Especially because there was a part in our more recent, in the more recent timeline of me and him, there was a conversation we had where he said to me that due to the current process of his divorce, he doesn't know if he can still be sending me money digitally because his bank statements are going to be looked at for what he's spending his money on, which made me partially believe him that he might actually be going through a divorce. And so he said, well, so in that case, can I be giving you money in person instead? And for me, like, cash in hand is an inconvenience.

1:37:31So I said to him, well, we're going to have to have an arrangement where if I'm doing cash meets with you, I don't do cash meets for anything less than£2 ,000 a month. So he was like, okay, it's fine. We'll just stick to the gym. Yeah, exactly. That's what I thought. All right. I'll tell you what. This actually, you saying that leads into what I wanted to talk to you about. I want to get into the biggest critiques against you. Because I would imagine for people listening, watching, there will be an array of critiques. Sure. And I've looked at a lot of your work and I've seen the commentary around it.

1:38:07And so these are the top critiques. What's your, you know, if you were a quick firing response to these critiques. All right. Critique one, or I'll just say critique. Shadira, she's a gold digger.

1:38:24I don't know anybody who digs for dirt and receives satisfaction from that. So I'd rather dig for gold than dig for debt. Okay. She has daddy issues. Much to the disappointment of those who make those comments, my dad loves me very much, and he's aware that I'm a Dolanatrix, and he's very supportive, and he loves my story times when I tell him what I've got to look to. He's like, yes, you better get his money. He's a stupid white man. That's a great response. All right. But Shadira, she must be emotionally damaged.

1:39:02I'm quite the opposite, actually. I've done six years in therapy. I love myself very much. I'm surrounded by very loving people, and I'm the most emotionally in tune with myself I've ever been. Shadira, given everything that she does, she's definitely not a feminist. Many people, including feminists, would argue that I'm not a feminist because feminism is largely about equality with men. I don't believe that I'm equal to people who think it's okay to marry children. I am superior to men. And if women weren't superior to men, men would be creating laws and policies and social regulations to oppress women into submission.

1:39:45Okay, okay. You know what, Shadira? She's the female Andrew T. I think it's very laughable to compare me to someone who has been not just accused of sex trafficking, but this same person has spurred on a red pill movement that further enables misogyny, something that costs women their lives. So me having high standards and encouraging women to expect more of men cannot in any way be likened to somebody who encourages a movement that costs women their lives. All right. And last one is that your games with men are so exhausting and you should just let love happen. Actually, I love the game. I think games are really good.

1:40:39Did you know that if you play games that involve you having to use a lot of mental arithmetic and mental strategy, it actually prevents dementia? So games are good. Games are good for all of us. And I think that sarcasm aside, the idea of, oh, just let love in. I think that love deserves conditions. And I think that not everyone deserves to love us because people will love us in the language that's familiar with them. and it's important to find somebody who loves you in a language that you understand and that you're familiar with and it will take time to find that. My message is not about hating men.

1:41:16My message is about hating people who reinforce patriarchy, but that's most men. So I'm not really sure where that leaves us. Fair enough, fair enough. One question that everyone gets, final question, is you have had amazing, amazing, amazing conversations through your life with various people. Could be with slave ducks, could be with other people, right? When you think back to the most memorable conversation, who was it with and what did you take from that conversation? When I think about the most memorable conversation I've had, it's with my therapist in one of my last sessions with her, where she said, the people we save won't always thank us.

1:42:00and that was coming from the context of me being so passionate about wanting to help my friends see a see the light with the men that they were from like girl can't you see what this guy's doing and let me help you to see better and just don't date this guy and I had to learn to just let them make their decisions you know what I consider a mistake might not be a mistake to someone else it could be that you think that you're saving your friend by telling her you know your boyfriend He's actually not a sincere person. Like I saw him doing X, Y, Z. You think you're saving, but really that might just result in you losing that friendship.

1:42:37So it's less about, I told you so. And it's more about like, what has this brought to the surface for you? Like, what are you going to do differently next time? Yes. How do you feel about this result? What did you see as the signs that you're now going to identify sooner? Yes. Yes. You know, my final thought is this is in full transparency, full, full transparency. is when I look at the guests that are coming on to the podcast, there's a small group, small clique that I have that I'll share the guest's name with just to see what the initial reaction is. And I remember sharing your name with one person in the clique and they said, why are you going to have her?

1:43:21She's like the antithesis to what you do. Yeah, he was like, don't do that. She's the worst guest to have. And there was this whole like long list of reasons. And it was because of that where I said, you know, the whole point of this podcast is to have provocative conversations, but it's for us all to be enlightened. And I need to have guests on that can enlighten me. Right. And what I did is I said, I took that and I said, okay, I'm going to investigate this person with rigor. And as I went down the rabbit hole, the more and more I adored you. I appreciate that. We don't have the same beliefs around all topics.

1:44:06But you know what? There's a lot of shared ground. And what I know for sure is your voice is needed in this world. and I say that ten toes down you know what I mean ten toes down your voice is needed not everyone's going to agree with that statement I know but I fully believe it is and as a result of your voice I believe that this you know I always say that great voices what they do is they elevate important topics that require us to have conversation and require us to reflect and what it does is it helps to destroy ignorance And that's, I think, that is exactly what you're doing. So keep doing what you're doing.

1:44:49You'll always have my support. I really appreciate it. And I understand, you know, like the example you gave of you mentioned my name and someone had pushback. I completely get it. This is nothing that's new to you for me to hear because the people who have pushback towards my message and my voice, they're not necessarily wrong in their perspective. our perspectives come from our lived experience and there'll be people who will hear me speak today and they might completely disagree with everything that I say and it's not from a place of them hating me or them being angry it's just that they can't envision for example with marriage they can't envision the idea of marrying someone and talking about money and and that being a non-negotiable factor because their definition of love is very different to mine or even the idea of dominating a man they're like i can't i'm not like that that's not my style you know when when i got the invitation to come on i was like i don't know like what do you are you sure you want me on like all the at the last episode that i'd watched at the time when i was coming on was the one with tony tone and okay her and her partner were discussing their relationship and i'm like this is so beautiful and then here i come being like yeah so i don't date men unless they admit my life easier i haven't slept with one since 2021 and i dominate them in my spare time and i mean to them like it's the complete antithesis but again that's why this conversation is so important and this platform is so important it's because you're fostering various perspectives that all still lead to the same thing of connection and love and community and understanding each other yes that's why this is so powerful and that's why i'm so glad to have been a part of this yeah Thank you.

1:46:33You know what I'm going to find out? My friend who didn't want you on? It's probably Slave Ducks. Imagine. That's a secret identity. This whole time. I need to say, oh my God. Without revealing the identity of your friend, was your friend a man or a woman? A man. Oh, how ironic is that? Shock, horror. Yeah, yeah, I'll leave it at that. A man, a man. Oh my gosh, this has been great. This has been so great, Paul. Thank you for having me. It's been super. It's been super. Yeah. Super, super. What an insightful conversation. You know, what I'm learning from all of these interviews is the importance of just listening.

1:47:09Even when you don't agree with what's being said, it's important to hear them out, critically think about it, and ask yourself, is there any common ground? I found myself doing that time and time again with Chidera. And you know what? There was lots of common ground. There was also lots of takeaways. So let me give you my top three. The first, Chidera's journey of self-discovery and her refusal to settle for less, it emphasizes the importance of self-love and setting high standards. Her story inspires us to prioritize our own growth and align relationships with our aspirations, ensuring that our partnerships elevate us rather than diminish us.

1:47:54Another takeaway was on the importance of open communication and setting clear boundaries. Now, Chidera's experience with her mother highlights how overprotectiveness, even when well-intentioned, can create emotional distance and break trust. It reminds us that open communication and respecting boundaries are essential to nurturing any relationship. Addressing fears openly and creating a foundation of trust allows relationships to thrive. fostering mutual growth and understanding. Without these elements, relationships risk becoming driven by control or resentment. True connection comes not from holding someone tightly, but from creating a safe space where they can be fully themselves.

1:48:39And lastly, my biggest takeaway from this interview was the importance of listening to perspectives we may not agree with. This is an essential step towards growth and empathy. Now, Chidera's ideas may challenge traditional views, but they invite us to think critically about our own beliefs. Having an open mind doesn't mean agreeing with everything. It means respecting diverse experiences and using them to broaden our understanding of the world. Thanks so much for watching. And just remember, around 9 in 10 of you watching these videos aren't subscribed yet. Now, no pressure at all, but if you're enjoying the content, subscribing is a super simple way to stay connected with us, and it also helps a ton when growing the channel.

1:49:27We also look at every comment, so make sure you comment with your guest ideas below, and we'll get your favorite guest on our future episodes. I appreciate you being here, and we look forward to seeing you on the next episode. It's the eternal struggle most of us face, building a fulfilling, successful career. but also being an available partner, parent, and friend. It never lets up and sometimes compounds to an overwhelming feeling of being stretched too thin. But there are ways to ease the load, and today I want to introduce you to one of them, who is also a sponsor of this podcast. Fiverr is the marketplace where you'll find thousands of highly skilled freelancers ready to take on your business needs.

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