Colton Underwood: I Thought The Bachelor Would Make Me Straight “I Prayed To God”

34:56Yes. But unfortunately, I just saw too many. And I also like, it might've been different if I was a second or third round pick, right? Then I might've had a little bit of leverage or a little bit of safety and security in my job. But at the time, I didn't want even, I didn't want people knowing my name outside of the coaching staff, right? Like, I just want to be there. I want to work hard. I want to do my job, keep my head down and just go to work. Stay under the radar. Yeah. So currently there are no openly gay players in the NFL. Yeah. Right? And this is currently. Right. Knowing everything that you know, if you could go back to that moment, Michael Sam, he's out.

35:43Yeah. Would you have also come out then? i mean if i'm sitting in this position now where i'm at yes i should have and i would have if i had known my life would look like this but i think there's like that is the part about being closeted that is like hard to sort of articulate is there is this overwhelming fear that your life is over as you know which is sort of true like once you come out your life is over like you're starting from scratch and i think there was that fear of like i just put 17 years into this sport why would i do this to myself and come out and jeopardize and ruin yes i'm still the same player maybe i even become better because i play looser faster quicker and like i just i don't have like this heaviness to me but i just think there was too much uncertainty like you know my job as a defensive end was sort of calculating risks and like trying to figure out how to like you know play chess against this offensive lineman and go sack the quarterback and make tackles like the calculator risk of coming out like the the cons outweighed the pros unfortunately yeah yeah so i think that's a poetic way to describe it is that your job your entire life was about calculating a risk totally and i'm i'm very conservative with how you know i went about that yeah so and i've always been like even you know playing the position i played i always played within the system but i was always a gap like this is my gap this is my responsibility i'm 11th of this defense right now i have to do my job like some of my teammates will make the tackle if they need to but like if it comes my way like i got this yes i see it i see it Can anyone tell me why roaming fees are always so expensive?

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38:14But the part that really pulls me in is that I can change my online location to the UK. So even if I'm somewhere else, any location blocked content is still accessible. To give it a try, download Saley from the App Store or scan the QR code on the screen. And if you want 15 % off your first purchase, make sure you use my code WNTT at checkout. Details are in the episode description. How do you go from the NFL to the Bachelorette? How does that happen? I mean, I just, I remember my career running over. I hurt my shoulder. I was going through this arbitration with one of the teams and it was a year-long process it was brutal I had to get surgery and sort of come to terms that like I was done and so I like in a somewhat joking way but somewhat serious way said to my dad like I've been playing football now for 17 years I was like can I just take a year off and just like this is the amount of money that I got from my settlement they paid part of my contract out I said what I'm going to do is I'm going to take this money i'm gonna put it in a bank account and i'm just gonna like try to see if like anything like if this works like just i'm gonna just go follow you know a passion of mine and i fell into the bachelorette franchise and i didn't really realize the magnitude of like filming all three shows back to back to back yes um it was life-changing in a crazy way um but it was sort a running joke and this is sort of how it started was like i just want to take a year off like i've never really done this and for me being closeted at the time too i was like this is perfect like if i end up getting on this maybe i'll find my wife all right you know so it was a wild wild experience it's it's very wild because you you then join three of the you you join one of the biggest franchises yeah in the world and the three shows she did the bachelorette with bachelors in uh paradise yep and then the bachelor yeah okay yeah so when you look at that was it how many years of your life was that one what yeah i mean it was it was 2018

40:35and then i filmed i think yeah and then my bachelor season aired in 2019 that's what a lot of people like i filmed three shows back to back to back so when i was in bachelor in paradise Bachelorette was just airing so I never got to watch that and then by the time I got off Paradise I was already in like fittings and meetings for becoming the Bachelor and so like I didn't really have a lot of time to figure out how this was changing my life in public because I was but like working I was back in front of the camera doing the thing it was funny after I wrapped Bachelor I went to Vegas to some of my friends and we went to a Kane Brown concert and his team invited us backstage for it and i just like was curious of the venue and i like popped my head out on the stage and the crowd went crazy and like i remember like that was like the moment like his manager ran down like what the hell was that and i was like i'm just like looking at the crowd and but i was like oh my life has changed like at that time like it was at the bachelor was at like an all-time high as far as like viewership and ratings and stuff but i didn't like i was so naive like of like what this show is you know gonna do to my life and my career yes yes how does it feel to poke your head out and see how many people are in there it's thousands probably yeah there's a lot it's thousands right to have them go wild how does that feel i just i don't know like now like i loved the fame aspect of it for about 18 months like i just thought it was so fun and cool and different and like i was like this is exhilarating and then now looking back and i'm like it's so famous so silly like no human is meant for it like i'm i think at that time i was 25 26 and i'm i just like the fact that i had to process that i like every conversation that i had with fans or people in public was so one-sided because like they knew everything about me but i you sort of lose this art of getting to meet people just because like they're like sort of pressing you with everything they know about you from reality television right um so it was really it was sort of challenge i mean and on top of all of that at the same time like i'm like internally trying to figure out if i need to come out or like how like how i'm going to come out now at this point or like what's going to happen so it just was like a really confusing weird time for me right and to your point is is i think the audience it's just what i've noticed with uh Reality television is it's this true parasocial relationship, right?

43:05For sure. The audience believes they have a relationship with someone. Totally. But they only have a quasi, a pseudo relationship with a sliver of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not all of you. For sure. So what were some aspects to you that you wish the audience actually knew and they were aware of? oh I mean like looking back on it now I wish I wish I would have been a little bit more vulnerable about just talking about my struggle with my sexuality I think there could have been something just interesting in that conversation I mean I don't know if it would have been possible just with how you know I grew up in the church and how conservative my family was and just like all there were so many complications to that theory too and to like the way that I could have gone about it but I think even like opening up that conversation would have been a it would have made my path to coming out a little easier of just like saying like you know you know I remember I always got asked like why I was a virgin so that was like the storyline that they wanted to run with and I hated it because I just I didn't want that pressure and then I also like didn't want people digging in because at that time I had hooked up with men so like I didn't it just put me in a position for people to come forward and discredit or give another reason why I'm a virgin.

44:25How did that even come up? Because I do, I distinctly remember at that time, before I knew your name. Yeah. I knew. I was a virgin bachelor. Yeah. I went into it. I went into it. Like, my whole heart was like, I'm not going to disclose to them that I'm a virgin no matter what. I literally told them I was a virgin on night one, a bachelorette. Like, these producers are so, I have never like, you know, I had just, I had only gone to therapy my last year when I was with Oakland Raiders. so I had like I didn't really understand the psychology of like well one Hollywood but then two just like these producers are basically just very very good therapists and so you're sitting in like this chair and they're like tell me about that had to be hard what is it like that and I'm just like I opened it up like immediately and I was like just gave them everything which they loved thank you they loved yeah so that's unfortunately how it sort of came to be and then it became my entire storyline but there are so many complications to it too like there were so many reasons why i was a virgin like it was my faith it was obviously like the one that i didn't tell publicly was my struggle with my sexuality um so yeah and then also like i think there was always like in the back of my mind a little guilt of like why would i do that you know why would i go down that path with a woman if i know in my heart that i'm gay but then there was a part of me that was like i think I need to try this or like maybe once again like the silliness of like maybe if I have sex with a girl I will become straight like you just like convince yourself like at some point I just was so good at convincing myself that the next step I will become straight like I need to get engaged I need to get married I need to lose my virgin like all of these different things were sort of steps to becoming straight okay so when you were then the bachelor you believe that you believe that i believe yeah to to get married have sex with a with a woman and that would change your sexuality i thought so i felt like that was like like why else would an opportunity like that fall into my lap if not like sort of put there to sort of help me and like what i was telling myself is like this is going to force me i'm going to be so publicly straight that i will never be able to be gay again so like on one hand it was like okay even if it doesn't work and like this conversion therapy or this way of like convert like doesn't work i'm so trapped because i'm so publicly known now from being the bachelor that i can never do gay things again so that was sort of what i was like telling myself wow that's something that's something yeah and and even while on the show were you scared that someone would out you oh i always think in the back of my mind i had so much fear that somebody's going to try to out me but then like i was very careful in how i went about that yeah and i had sort of my my rules and sort of just like this layer of protection i always like it's you know it's why i got my first tattoo just so I could become identifiable.

47:37Oh, really? But then I ended up just wrapping it when I would go hook up with guys and be like, I hurt my wrist, you know? Wait, I'm sorry. So you got it specifically? Yeah, I got it specifically. I tatted my entire wrist. Just basically, once again, like these levels that I was going to to sort of just like try to force myself to not be gay. Because that's a cross. A cross, yeah. So you're saying with that? Yeah. I mean, the thought process, Well, one, like, you know, obviously my faith is important to me, but also I just, I wanted to be in a position where somebody could be like, yeah, I hooked up with a guy he had across.

48:13I didn't, you know, I don't know where I was exactly going with it, but I was like, at least like now people will be able to identify me outside of just like this dude. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So now on The Bachelor, can I talk about you leaping over this six-foot fence? Yeah. Okay. And this is really what I want to say about it. Yeah. Is I'm very impressed with it. Thank you. Very impressed. Yeah. And it's not only the leap. It's the fact that you did it with a jacket on. You had like hard shoes on. And boots. You had boots on? Boots and jeans. And you had jeans. Yeah. can I ask walking to the well as you're walking to the fence in your mind are you thinking I'm jumping over this thing no I I didn't know what was happening I just like I knew that I just needed to get out of there I just I didn't know if it was going to open or not and then by the time I got to it I was like oh yeah I could clear this so I'm just going to do that and so I cleared it it was like I like adrenaline is a powerful powerful thing yes I was coursing through my I just remember like that night.

49:25I basically, when I did The Bachelor, I had, I don't want to say like a rule, but like, I think, and I also think my directness is what got me the gig in the first place. As I said, like, look, I'm down to make a great show with you guys. My only rule is just don't mess with my top three. Because like, I knew a certain level of like production at that point. Like, this is my third show. So like, I had enough context of how they did the other shows to know there's a little bit of producer manipulation. There's things that get, there's bombs that get dropped in to like affect relationships and dynamics and conversations.

49:58So I basically just said to them, I said, hey, just do me a favor and just don't mess with my top three. So your top three choices, you said, you said, just don't manipulate those. Just don't manipulate those. Okay. And like, I'm good. Like entertain, do everything. And by that point in the show, something happened where I figured out that they manipulated it. And I was like, like, and also like weirdly at that point is like the only time where like the lead has really any power because they have millions of dollars invested into the show and they're not going to restart. So it's like, you finally sort of have the leverage that you never had the entire time.

50:31But once again, like that was like a learned skill for me, just like, I don't know. I just felt like all of these aspects I sort of developed just from being so good at controlling situations because I had to in my life and this was my sexuality. yes like i just became like this master of being able to like figure out how to you know position myself in a way that protects me okay okay so then was your intention to leave in that moment or just get i'll leave for sure i went so i went back up to the room they they take your um passport they hold that but i had my wallet which had my driver's license so i my my plan was just to go get a new passport and dip out on my own, cover my own flights.

51:15I was like, I just want to get out. I was in Portugal at the time. Okay. So I had to go back to the U.S. Embassy, get a passport, and then I was lost. I'm bad with directions. So I jumped that fence, and I was two hours out just wandering around. So you walked for two hours? Oh, yeah. Because I saw they were trying to find you. Oh, yeah. They tried to find me for a bit. Yeah. It was interesting. Yeah. You know, also, when I looked at that, I watched it with the sound on first. Then I watched it with the sound off. And I watched you come down the stairs and I saw how you looked. And I wonder, were you trying to escape the show?

51:56Or were you trying to escape the facade of Colton that you had built over the years? I think it was a mix of both. I think like that they're just like that was like the perfect culmination of like what the hell am I doing like it just was like what like this is so silly like I'm like upset because of like making this TV show but then I'm also like upset with myself that I'm like going through all of this I think there was always sort of that like level of shame that I carried throughout like you know I do think there's a reason why I was the Bachelor and like for me and my life and my path like it was one of the only ways for me to come out like just how everything unfolded and played out in my life um i truly believe like there was a reason and like that was one of the only ways that i would come out i should have never been in that situation i should have never been the bachelor i should have like there's a there's a bunch of different ways to come out not in that way and i should have done something differently but that wasn't in my cards That was sort of just like the life that I sort of fell into.

53:05And I think there was a lot of frustration in that moment that you see that, that like makes a lot more sense for people, you know, now when they rewatch it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, from that show, you then went on to do several other shows. So there was a show that was a documentary of you actually coming out. Yeah. Right. you also were on Masked Singer. Yep. You were on My Wife's Favorite, Traitors, Celebrity Traitors. Yes, yes. With Maura Higgins. Maura. She's the best. She's awesome. She's awesome. You know what I love so much is I love to see her shine globally now. Yeah. I told her that after the show.

53:51I was like, you're about to be a star. She's like, what do you mean? She's pretty well known in London, but the US-based. And I was like, you are incredible. Like, you're just so genuine and authentic. And you speak from your heart. Like, and it's not always proper. And that is, like, the best way to do it. Yes. I was like, you're about to, you know, have the time of your life. Look at that. Look at that. And I'm with you. I'm with you. I think her star just continues to rise. Totally. Yeah. Totally. So now, across these shows, though, a place that we have to get to is audience. opinion of you.

54:31So what do you perceive the audience view is of you? Especially, I mean, I think Traders, it's fresh, but collectively across all of these shows, because you're well known and we know that people have opinions. Yeah. So what do you believe the overall opinion is of you? I think there's probably quite a few that are just confused. Like, you know, the Bachelor fandom is pretty conservative. You know, and most of them stuck by me and supported me and, you know, loved me through my ups and my downs. I think most people are just sort of like unsure. They're like, who is this guy? Like, you know, I've been, you know, I've been on their screen since I was 26.

55:24So I'm really like I've had high highs and I've had low lows. in front of the world at this point. I think like the shows that I've done have always been so serious. And so like I've had to like, there's always lighter moments in them, but like The Bachelor is like a dating and love and you're supposed to get engaged and it's like has a serious tone to it. My documentary and coming out and what I was going through at that time in my life was dark and hard and challenging. So then like when these fun opportunities to go on The Masked Singer and all these, like I jump on those because I get to like, I'm not a very serious person.

56:01And I'm also like not, like, of course I played football, but like I'm not a super aggressive person either. I just like love to have a good time. And I'm like down to like, just go, you know, shoot the shit and put myself in uncomfortable, weird positions. Like I shot a show called Beyond the Edge in Panama where I survived in the jungle. Like that type of stuff is fun to me. Just like trying new things and like being a little bit more lighthearted. so like that's when like you know traitors comes up i'm like oh i'm gonna like give it my all i'm gonna play this game really hard but like i'm gonna have a good time and i just sort of want to like you know fuck with people on here because like that's it's like such a psychology like it's a you just have to like throw yourself in that mindset when you're playing a game like that yes so i bet people are just confused they're like who is this who's this guy yeah right and and i'm i'm I'm with you, right?

56:51So here's how I view it. I think that the majority, I think the majority are with you. Yeah. They're like, you know what? Totally. We like him. Like, you know, we see the struggles. We've seen him. You're right. From 26 to 34. Yeah. Right? We've seen him on the screens. We love him. That's the majority. I think there's a group, most recently from the traders. Oh, yeah. Who got super upset. And I'm trying to understand exactly why they were so upset. And I was trying to ask my wife this too. Because what I understand is that you literally received death threats. Yeah. And there was so much turmoil within the audience that even the show had to state, look, you know, chill out, basically.

57:43Yeah. Right? So there's that group. and I'm trying to understand, and actually even if you can help me understand, what happened to cause, what do you believe happened to cause people? I mean, there's no reason to give anyone a death threat. Right. But what inspired that? I think people associated time in my life from something that happened at this point six years ago to this heightened character of, I can call myself a character on this, on Traitors. They sort of drew a direct line of, this is what happened six years ago in the ending of a relationship that like really was publicized and I was in a really dark place in my life.

58:29And they sort of drew a direct line of how aggressive I was playing the game and how I really threw myself in there. And they're like, oh, this is a pattern. Okay, I see. And in reality, it's not, I don't, I would not call that a pattern at all. It was more so just like, you know, I was playing the game really, really hard. And the people who I targeted and who I went after, you know, just happened to be fan favorites from very big franchises, like the Bravo world and, you know, Big Brother world, all these like, they love their people. And, you know, just like, you know, people, there were people definitely rooting for me too.

59:06But like, that's what makes that show so polarizing but I think like that's my sort of my reflection on it is you know I've obviously had to deal with my past and I've had to take accountability I've had to apologize over and over and over and over and over again I always will I always will um but what I would say is like that is so far like 15 versions of me ago like that's like the best way to put it is like I've I've lived so many different lives like you know meeting jordan getting married having a kid like all of those things change you and like this really fun beautiful way coming out yes changed me yes going through you know like intense therapy you know coming out to myself it took me two months of therapy just to come out to myself so like all of these things changed me and the audience was not a part of that right outside of the netflix show but even then it's like that has a gloss to it that isn't always as raw as what i was going through like i was quite literally doing therapy in my closet my dad's because i moved back in with him because i was abusing my my medication so like i was doing my therapy session from my car outside in the driveway or his closet just to have privacy because i wasn't ready to tell him that i was out yet and i didn't want him overhearing me with my therapist on on zoom because it was all during covet so no place was open for in person so it was just like they weren't a part of that um so i could easily see why they just want to make their own assumptions but i will say like i will go out and say like i'm definitely not like i i liked how i played the game traders like i really liked how i i played really really hard but that is not like an accurate representation of how i show up every single day as like a dad and as a husband yes um i'm not like that in in real life but like when i go to play a game and I'm there to make TV, like that's just sort of, that's, you know, what I do.

1:01:04Right. And to that point of there could be a level of being upset because of past incidents. That was almost what I was going to get to with the third group is I think that there's a third group who, to your point, haven't gone through all this journey with you. Right. Right. And so they're seeing these snapshot moments. Yeah. And they're saying, well, you know, look how he's showing up here. has he taken accountability and you're saying no no I have but more importantly is I've changed as as as a human being yeah I mean I'm also just I'm not really in a place of my life where I I'm like I know who I am at this point and I'm not gonna sit here and try to convince people to like do it and also I just think like you know there's plenty of places that people could look to see me talk about what happened six years ago.

1:01:57Like there's plenty of information out there to see where I've spoken at length on that. But for that to come up again, so, you know, just so heavy for, you know, when I'm with my kid and, you know, my husband and he's receiving these messages and threats, like that's at the point where I'm like, this isn't cool. Right. Like, you know, it's one thing if you don't want to be a fan of mine, don't be a fan of mine. But like you can't be, you know, the death threats have to stop and like the adding fuel to a fire, this false narrative and just like just blatant lies to that were, you know, sort of spreading.

1:02:33It just was sort of like a dogpile effect that was happening. And it was like a slow motion train wreck that I just like didn't know. I was like, what is going on? Yeah. Like it was my favorite show that I've ever filmed. I loved filming Traders. It was my hands down the favorite my favorite project. Wow. Of all the projects you've done. Oh, for sure. Wow. I'm a big, like, I love playing games. Yeah. And so to, like, have that, I mean, also just, like, the show is so gay at its core. Yeah. Right? Like, I mean, it's the most campy. You're in Scotland playing dress up with Alan Cumming as your host.

1:03:09Yeah. And somebody's getting murdered. Yes. You know, like, it's so gay. Yeah, it's just very cool. Very, very, very cool show.

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1:05:05I have to talk about you hiding from your dad doing therapy. Yeah. while also having was it abusing painkiller drugs uh no it was um yeah it was a mix of well i was on lexapro that i was not abusing but xanax i was i was struggling with my xanax usage and alcohol okay are you open to talking about yeah yeah yeah okay so this is was this coming off of the bachelor yeah this is coming off of the bachelor um i had been on and off lexapro throughout the bachelor taping okay and lexapro lexapro's an antidepressant okay so that was that was my antidepressant there was some gnarly side effects for me that i didn't i wasn't fully like you know like honest with my doctor and even myself with like how just mood swings were happening and it just made me like the best way to explain it like the combination of medicine that i was on between the lexper and the xanax and then alcohol as well was i was like playing myself through a video game so it was like this um i just was like i just sort of had this like overhead view of myself living my life and it was just like this weird feeling of i had no consequences so i just had like this um i'm blanking on the word that i'm looking for but It's a disassociation with myself.

1:06:35Okay. So, like, that was the state of mind that I was... For a stretch, I was in that for about two weeks at my worst stretch. So it was, like, every day, you know, I was taking, you know, Xanax during breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Really? On top of, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So. Okay. And you were back at home? No, I was in West Hollywood at that time. Oh, my goodness. I just we just ended the relationship and it was like a confusing time for me because like once again, like at that time, I left through my identity at whatever was not me coming out. So at that point, I was the bachelor. I was like this guy who ended the show and did this cool thing, didn't end it in the traditional way.

1:07:19And then all of that sort of goes away. And then that's when like the blackmail happened. and once that happened the it became much easier for me to take more pills to try to just like not have to look that direction okay yeah okay and so um the the blackmail is this what ultimately forced you to have to come out in a way yeah i sort of credit it i think that's like a little bit of me trying i'm a glass half full type guy so like of course like it was a dark and weird time but it was the push that I needed. Yeah, there was a letter sent, an email sent that I had to forward to my publicist. So I had to come out to my professional team before my family.

1:08:03So my publicist, my manager, my agent, all, I had to tell them that I was gay before I really even had the opportunity to tell my family. And this is because someone sent an email. Yeah, I denied it for a while. And then my publicist is a gay man. And I credit him for really helping me come out too. And then also the guys who ended up being the executive producers of my Netflix show, they were there sort of there from the entire thing. So they were sort of the ones that put me in a position to to allow me to come out to them first. OK. Yeah. OK. Yeah. And I would imagine. So the email, what what did it say?

1:08:44What did it contain? It contained factual data of factual date and time of when I went for one of my hookups with the guy. So at that point, like I had known that I had, you know, somebody following me and taking pictures. Oh, my goodness. So that was like the scary part is like, you know, I built my life up to that point being very careful. And then, of course, like the one time where I sort of just was like loosey goosey with it and like didn't really, you know, I didn't really protect myself. I was wide open. And yeah. All right. But now, so then you were followed. So what was that? Do you believe that was the sound?

1:09:26They claim that they had images, but like the, I never, I had never saw them. I don't know if my team saw them. I was sort of at that point, I let them handle it. Like that's what, you know, why they're on my team and why they helped me. And then my publicist specifically, he basically had a lot of the details of what was happening, you know, for my prior relationship. It's just, he put all the pieces together and called me. I remember this I was in Illinois I was on at my grandma's house in the driveway and he's like I'm gonna ask you a question and he's like I just want to let you know like whatever the answer is it's gonna be okay I was like okay and he's like are you gay and I for the first time in my life I immediately answered yes and I just I don't know why I don't know how like I because I had never really been able to like say that especially and he goes it's like everything's gonna be okay but this makes so much more sense and then eventually you know it was time after all the conversations happened about like why should document this that i was able to come out to my family okay yeah okay that conversation with your mother and father yeah it was great i talk about it in my book dear bishop but the only person who i came out to not on camera i did on camera but we i don't want to say reshot it but like i didn't even tell the producers i was like my mom had such a hard time with bachelor so like she cried one night because like one of the producers said something like she just had a really hard time showing up for television it was not her and like i didn't want to put her in an uncomfortable position so i took her to dinner and i told her at dinner the night before we were supposed to shoot the scene i was like hey i just want to let you know like i'm gonna i'm coming out and you know she thought she was getting punked at first and then it was just like it was really cute um but i just i you know just out of respect like you learn like my mom would not have done well if i would have sprung that on her you know and i like i know i should have probably gave my dad the same heads up but my dad's so good on camera and like he's also like he's very composed he just is like a good person too so i trusted him with that and like he had a good time and had you know positive experiences on The Bachelor.

1:11:44So I sort of knew him well enough. Yes. Yes. And how does it feel? How did it feel that night with your mom to be able to allow her to see, you know, all of you? It was great. So she was the first person in my family that I came out to. And then my brother was the second. And then I told my dad. So. Yeah. Yeah. And what's what's what's the emotion when you tell your your mom, your brother and your dad? I just think like, you know, I think there was like a little bit of a hesitation of like, OK, sort of like what do you have to say about all of this? You know, because, you know, like I put my family through a lot.

1:12:27They had to be on Bachelorette with me and they had to be on Bachelor with me. And so they sort of like were like, what is going? This is like it was like whiplash for them. a little bit but they were so loving and so supporting and i think like that was sort of my experience with coming out i know this is not common out there and i know there's like somewhat of a privilege to this but like it was so beautiful because i kept gaining more confidence like everybody that i came out to for the most part was just so loving and accepting and it was great so yeah yeah um i i think too i think about your your dad right and i've got this photo here oh boy oh yeah that's from uh bachelor bachelor bachelor yeah so when i when i see that what strikes me most is how much respect and reverence you have for your dad yeah so i can't imagine that was easy at all to then tell your father this oh yeah i'm curious what was his his reaction immediately what was his reaction you know he's like i said he said all the right things i mean you people got to see it on the netflix show like you know he was basically like who can i tell for you like how can i take this off your plate like immediately just stepped up and like he like Like that's something with my dad, like, you know, I credit a lot of my work ethic and my problem solving skills to him just because I watched him do it throughout our entire lives and, you know, had him as my football coach and my mentor.

1:14:03So, like, I felt like that is, you know, that was something that I had always sort of trusted, like, just the goodness in him with coming out. But then it was funny because as soon as the cameras went down, he said to me, he goes, I love you. I'm so proud of you. go be gay, just don't become a Democrat. And like, true to, like, that's exactly what he said to me. And I was like, okay, like, don't know what that means yet. But like, sure. Because at that time, like, politics for me wasn't really even like a massive thing. Yes. Obviously, after coming out and learning about, you know, different marginalized communities and rights and all of it, like, it's made for some very interesting Thanksgivings and conversations.

1:14:46and then it didn't help that my husband um is a top democratic strategist so that was an interesting thing to navigate but i just like like that that's my family though right like those are my people and like that's what i i try to tell people too is like i'm it took me a long time to find my lane in our community in the gay community and i take a lot of pride and joy of still having a pretty conservative following just so that i can and be patient with them. I could hold their hand, I could teach them. Even today on social media, there was somebody who wrote a mean comment about my son saying I feel bad for that kid.

1:15:23And instead of just firing back some hot, I just want to take the time to educate this dude. Like, let's break this down. What do you mean by that? My kid's happy and he has two loving dads. So that's my role. And it took me a long time to figure that out, but it's like, and I sort of credit him too, of like just helping teach me and like me teaching him like hey hey let me just tell you like okay noted on the democrat thing but like let's look at some of the democratic politics or policies versus the republican ones see which one supports your son you know there you go so you know um that that that is beautiful yeah and you're underscoring actually one of my biggest lessons being a father and that is remaining teachable.

1:16:11Yeah. So being able to teach, but also learning along the way. Right. You know, and that gets me to another surprise. Uh-oh. All right. So I want you to take a look at this photo. Tell me what's happening in this photo. What does this mean to you? Oh, gosh. We were in Mexico. Okay, who's the we? Who's the we? My husband and my son, Bishop. Okay. Um, and we did a, uh, a photo shoot on the beach with this photographer that is based in, um, Puerto Verita. And it was just so much fun. We had outfits picked out for all of us and we just wanted, I just remember like, we're going to do it. Like, let's, I want to remember this vacation and this moment.

1:16:57And he's just the happiest kid. And so we literally just got to run on the beach and run around the resort taking photos. and he was in this is this is him you know literally 99 of his day is just with a big smile and curiosity and he's i've just like i learn so much from him every day it's like perspective you know pure joy yeah that is pure joy you know what thank you for that you know what's so interesting to me is you could see how um you know you have probably never saw yourself at age six or seven or 16 or 18 or 24 yeah as colton the dad you know yeah um and and here you are but you're a dad with Jordan yeah right so can you tell me about when did Jordan enter your life hmm Jordan entered my life the first night I met him was at the wrap party of my Netflix show I remember saying to Gus Kenworthy who helped me on my coming out I was like hey like thank you this is great I just don't have any gay friends like and I didn't like you know whether it was by design or accident I just don't have any gay friends he's like well let me like throw you a party um so we've had there was 30 gay men on a rooftop in downtown LA and he was there but we had like you know we just talked a little bit I just remember you know him talking about you know I just remember leaving the night being like okay like I sort of aligned with him and two months go by I go back to Denver and then we're on the same trip to Provincetown, Massachusetts, a P-Town.

1:18:52And it rained the entire weekend. And so we just had so much quality time. And I really got to know him and understand him. And we just like hit it off and fell in love in a weekend. And it was like, you know, at the time I was on all of the apps. I bought premium everything. Yes. Like because everybody in my life was like, you just came out. Go mad. Go wild. right like just go hook up with whoever and I was like I know like I had already done that when I was closeted right like that and I'm and I'm not a grass is greener type guy so after that weekend you know I was coming back out back and forth and we were seeing each other and you know on one of our first dates he was like you know like I want kids and I was like so do I and so you know that's not an extremely common thing for gay men to talk about on their first date so I was like okay like there's definitely something here and uh there sure was it just was it was like perfection it was perfection yeah it's perfection so so now how long have you and jordan been together uh five years this weekend five years this weekend is when our first we first met we met on memorial day weekend and in p-town um and then married for a little over two okay married for a little over two.

1:20:10All right. So one is congratulations. Two congratulations on that. But yeah, we started the baby process even before our wedding. Oh, did you? Yeah, because it took us about two and a half years. Okay. Yeah. So the process, the surrogacy process, I've noticed for gay men is incredibly challenging all over the world. Yeah. And from what my research tells me is that easier in the States, but still challenging. Right. So easier in the States versus, say, the UK. Totally. Which is why so many people come from the UK over to the US. How is it still challenging? What laws do you believe need to change?

1:20:59Well, I think I could speak specifically for the US right now. There's this organization I work with called Family Equality. it is legal in 13 states in the United States to openly discriminate against same sex couples for adoption. So they will not place a kid in adoption or with a family because they have same sex and like legally they can do that. So that discrimination is still open. Little things in other states as far as having mother and father on birth certificates. So, you know, it changes, is I think in certain states, but some this kid will have either his egg donor or a surrogate's name on his birth certificate, his or her birth certificate for the rest of their life.

1:21:43That isn't really the parent. So like giving birth to Bishop here in California, we had parent one and parent two. He didn't have mother and father. I see. And I think like those are just they feel little, but they make a big difference for how our day went of like welcoming our child into our lives. I mean, we hear, you know, my line of work, I love advocating for IVF and same sex couples and talking about my journey and what we've been through. And that's why I'm so public with Bishop and I don't hide his face. And I'm so proud to sort of represent that in our community. But, you know, we've heard horror stories of certain nurses and even hospitals not letting, you know, one of the dads or one of the wives in because the real dad's already in there.

1:22:30You know, like that's the language that they use. So that's something that I think like not a lot of people fully consider in all of the states here. I would definitely say the number one barrier is financial. Like it is, it's very expensive. Most insurance does not cover it. You know, there was a couple things passed here in California that make it a little cheaper now with IVF assistance to help. But we still have a long ways to go. It's a very expensive process. And, you know, I always try to explain to people, too, that same-sex couples that want to build a family, they are quite literally doing one of the most intentional things you can do to bring life into this world.

1:23:15So that already should tell you everything you need to know about them as parents. They're being so intentional about going through this. It's so expensive. It's so time consuming. It's so emotionally draining, but it's so worth it. And those are the type of people who should be putting kids into this world. So that's like what I always try to remind people. Yeah. No, I entirely, completely agree with you. Yeah. And what I believe should be the litmus test is who is going to provide emotional safety to our children. That is ultimately it. Right. And when you look at the hurdles that same-sex couples have to jump as you're describing yeah it's proof yeah and that's why when someone gives you that comment um i i admire you for not going in on them but instead oh i have oh yeah just depending on the day okay most of the time i like to be calm understanding patient but there definitely are fiery days where i'm like oh fuck no you're not doing this to my family right you know and i'll fire something back yes yeah yes so so do you think jordan has has balanced you out a little bit oh yeah we're very much yin and yang yes like in almost every aspect of our lives like i couldn't tell you what airline or flight or hotel we're at my husband handles that but like when it comes to you know other like just we pick up we're really good at picking up each other's slack okay like where like he excels i like need help and vice versa so we were very complimentary just not only in our life as like like partners but as fathers too love it love it i have a final surprise for you okay ready for this one let's do it okay so this is it's coming from this side now I have a letter for you.

1:25:11Oh. A letter. If you could open that up. Yeah. And give that a read for us Colton.

1:25:22Colton is the embodiment of what a husband and father should be. He works so hard. He plays so hard. He manages to juggle a million balls and always seems like he's having fun. When he makes a decision, he never looks back. He's all in. There is no grass is greener instinct in Colton. As his partner, it's the best. I always knew that whatever big life decision we made, Colton is in. If Colton is in, he's in. Watching him become a dad was almost as great as becoming a dad myself. It helped me relax into our life together, revealing the good times, moving through the hard ones with grace together, and always coming back to gratitude.

1:25:59In short, he's the best person I know, and Bishop and I are so lucky he's ours. my sweet man he's way better with words than I am that's incredible I'm going to frame this I'm going to give that back to you I'm going to hold on to it temporarily and then I'll give it back to him I am I know that you now well you have been actually for the last few years because this is your second book but you're an author and your current book is really, I would say, a love letter to your son. Yep. Can you tell me about it? Yeah, I think, you know, the first book that I did, I was really proud of it, but it had direct sort of safety.

1:26:49I call them safety lies. Like, I didn't really want to, I wasn't ready to talk about my sexuality and struggling and growing up. And there were some things in there that just, like, I always knew, like, at a certain point, I'm going to have to redo this. writing a book is a daunting task and it sort of you have to be in the right mindset to really sit down and like get it done whether you work with a ghostwriter or not like it is a very intense process but my husband and I do this thing where we write emails to Bishop so we have this email address and so every time he hits a milestone or does something cool or we catch ourselves being like that was awesome like it's my favorite thing when he does x y and z we look at each of like write him an email so we will go then you know we spend so much time on our phones anyway we might as well make it productive we'll sneak off to the corner and and i'll like snap a picture or video and be like hey you know today you rolled over or like you know the other day we we do this thing where i say noggin and he gives me not gonna go dude and it's from finding an email it's my favorite that he does right now like but the other day he did and he headbutted the shit and then he goes dude and i was like i couldn't be mad i was like in so much pain but i couldn't be mad because like i taught him that and so i found myself i'm like okay i have this like collection of emails that i have what if i did like a just a short book and like just made it a letter to bishop so that's where dear bishop came from and then you know the trend of everybody moving to audio you know having you know the partnership with has shed you know audio to to do this in my own voice and i also like love the fact that it's it is it is meant for everybody to enjoy but it is directly to my son um which was a challenge because there's obviously some things like i wanted to talk about that like i'm very well aware that he is not old enough to to hear that yet but like my plan is when he is old enough i want to present this to him i want to present the emails to him um for him to listen to because I want him to know from me who his dad was.

1:28:53Yes. What I went through, what I'm going through with him and like my goals and dreams for not only myself as a father, but for him as my kid. Um, so I wanted to share that with him in the letter and that's what I did. Yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful. It really is. I mean, even the concept of it being an audio, you know, I think it's it's brilliant uh and also i think it's inspiring for all parents i think all dads should sort of do i think this needs to be like a little it's like a little bit of like a time capsule i think like a lot of dads and i say dads i mean moms could do it too but like i think dads because you know sometimes we're not always known as the most emotional ones right in it right when we do have that capability and we actually are we just don't show it all the time i think like it would be really cool for a lot of dads to start doing just like these audio these voice notes they don't it doesn't have to be anything big or grand like what i did with dear bishop but like just having something that sort of serves as like a vault for you absolutely go back and reference like oh my gosh do you remember that it's just this perspective it's a brilliant idea yeah it's brilliant i had a lot of fun yeah and writing it um i mean i could see it yeah yeah i could see it when you reflect on your life what's one thing that you hope bishop will never have to go through that that you went through i think i would i would say i i hope that he would never have to compartmentalize his life to the extreme measures that i did i think looking back that was something that really hindered me and still affects me even at times today where i'm just i'm not i i just like i like having my life so organized and tidy and and clean and and control right so like i think like giving up letting you know giving up that control for me has been so rewarding and so just like my life has been so much better so i would hope for him he wouldn't feel like he has to compartmentalize his life he could let everybody in at all times okay i see it yeah i see it uh and i can see how control was maybe to a certain degree now you're right was this adaptive strategy totally that you use to in essence keep yourself safe yeah right it was for sure i think like i don't want to ever make excuses for poor or bad decisions that i've made but like a lot of the time when my control came like the control freak in me comes out it's out of self-defense and it's just because i don't want to go there either emotionally or i'm protecting you know i was protecting a big secret for the longest time yeah yeah what's something that you've lived through in life that you want bishop to experience i think i have two my first one is playing football oh no it's a constant battle you pass it it down really it's a constant battle with my husband whether he's going to be able to play or not um so jordan does not want him to play no no there's too many injuries for jordan to sign off on that okay um i just once again the pros that way the cons i think you know the teammates the camaraderie just the melting pot of what the locker room was for me and like i took so much away from the game of football so i would say that one and then also just like i hope that he can he knows that he can grow up to be whoever he wants to be and his dads will support him yes yes yeah i love it uh i have to ask though because so many people do know you from reality tv yeah would you do another reality tv show yeah i mean i think what i've learned is i never speak in infinitives now so i will never be like no i'm done um yeah i think the answer is yes if it's the right project okay and that that answer the right project could change on a daily monthly you know yearly basis of like what my soul needs um i just i love doing what i mean i'm it's i always joke i'm still on my year off like this is my this is my year off and i've found made a way to make it work for almost 10 years now i was gonna say you've had 10 years off yeah so my one year off my 15 minutes of fame whatever you want to call it i'm still here having a good time and And yeah, I think like even like a show like I would do Traders again.

1:33:32I would do another another season. Like that was it was so much fun. Yeah. And that's what life is all about. Like these fun, crazy opportunities. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. So then final question. Yeah. Everyone gets this. All right. When you think about all the incredible conversations you've had throughout life, which one stands out as the most memorable? so who was it with and what did you learn

1:34:03oh gosh I think like my head immediately went to the first time Jordan said I love you to me and it was just like this feeling I was just like looking at him I was like it's okay you can say it and I don't know why like it just was like a gut like we were just connected and he goes I love you I was like I love you too. I was like almost like waiting for him to say at first. Um, but it's just like, I've never felt more connected to a person than in that moment. So, so, so what's your lesson then from that moment? I think that was like my lesson of, I can let my guard down finally in my life and be who I was born to be like that.

1:34:47There was no conditions. There was no guard rail. Like it was sort of like in that moment everything sort of just fell and i was like okay like you know here i am this is this is what you get for the rest of your life um and i learned a new lesson with him every single day like i truly mean that like it's just we're we're so similar but so different in the same in this like weird way that it just like works so well yes yes i am you know It's so interesting because I would imagine that your parents, when they thought about who your spouse would be. Yeah. Right. Jordan has no characteristic in what they thought your spouse was going to be.

1:35:36Right. Right. Down to politics. Totally. Right. But here you found someone who turns your light on. Yeah. Who makes you feel safe. Yeah. Who you're able to co-parent with. Yeah. And I can imagine that they are insanely happy. Yeah. Because of that. They get it now. They did it at the beginning, but they get it. They understand it now. But they understand it now. And I think that your journey is incredibly inspiring to many people. And when I say to many people, it's one of these where you have to be willing to be curious enough to lean into it. Yeah. And not stand on the peripheral, be ignorant, and not lean in.

1:36:25Right. But when you lean in, it's incredibly inspiring. Yeah. And you look at what you've had to go through, what you've had to fight through. and that you're still this work in progress, right? But you found this space of safeness. Yeah. And I love most importantly how you light up with Bishop. Yeah. And I did this long scroll down your IG, and what I notice, and you said this at some point in the conversation, I said, yeah, is that Bishop is always massive smile, happy. Totally. And that in itself, it tells me everything about how you parent and how Jordan parents. So long, long may it continue.

1:37:11Thank you. Yeah. Support system. I have the best support system in the world. Yeah. So, yeah, there you go. All right. Well, thank you, sir. Thank you so much.

1:37:23Colton, Colton, to think that he's literally and figuratively in a closet and he's abusing drugs. He is praying to be straight. He's talking to a therapist and he doesn't want his father to here, it's just surreal because he's just come off of The Bachelor. He's now a household name in the United States. He's so famous that, you know, he unveiled himself at a concert and everyone went wild. But yet he's at perhaps the lowest point in his life. I think I'm most surprised at how he owned up to being a super controller. So the one thing that I didn't want to bring up in this interview is that the two positions I played, I was a running back and a defensive end.

1:38:23The same positions that he played. Clearly, like, my skill level is nowhere near where this guy's is. Being a defensive end, as he said, it is truly about calculating risk. You know, every position is different, and every position, I think, calculates risk to a certain degree, but I feel it's disproportionately what you do as a defensive end. Isn't it interesting that that was the position his father played? That's the position that he played, and that became his life, was trying to calculate risk. You would be the first openly gay player of a top flight team. The world was silent. That's when I saw, okay, that person that pat you on the back for coming out didn't mean it because when it counts, they're not there.

1:39:12Yeah. I never knew little Joshy could even play football and be gay. It turned to a point where I won best young player of that season and having to act and hide from these people when I'm getting such a privileged award, it killed me. We had a huddle in the change room and I announced who I was. To the team. I thought that I'm not going to have a football contract. That's me hanging up my boots. So it was incredible to see how much love and support was coming my way. What happened next? It was me just at a petrol station filling up my car. And it was someone approaching me from behind, trying to hit me.

1:39:45Have there been times where you have felt unsafe on the pitch? I channeled all that into being the best footballer I can possibly be. And it's basically to say, F you, to all the haters. Finding myself in a club was so welcoming. It made so much sense for my proposal to be there. I'm in a football pitch and I'm kissing my fiance. This is nuts. I can't imagine what it's like to walk in your shoes. If I had to go back, my one message would be...