Dan TDM Exclusive: How Depression Took Over My Life

36:06Maybe like a couple cars because we also had like... We just didn't have a car. So I think we bought two cars, a house. The rest was all stuff for videos, so like new PCs, gaming consoles, all that.

36:25No, that was it. Yeah. And that was it. Yeah. And you now are not, and you're not slowing down either. No. You're probably ramping up. I kept it about the same, but then I was starting to explore stuff outside of videos. So that's when the books, the tours, the gaming conventions and stuff, that was when they kicked in. But still keeping to a day. Okay. So keeping in tune. Yeah. At this time too, I would imagine, because the subscriber number. So at this point, you're probably, what, in the tens of millions of subscribers? Yeah, it was probably about 10 million then, yeah. Okay. Perhaps the highest subscribed at that point in the UK?

37:09I don't know. No, probably gaming YouTuber, definitely. Up, like top three probably, yeah. Okay, top three. But in terms of like views, there was one time where I was the most viewed on the entire website for a month and consistently in like the top five. Yeah, it's nuts. By the entire website, it was ridiculous. I mean, and who else is on the top five list? I mean, there's PewDiePie. no not even musicians it was all like gamers or nursery rhyme channels because musicians only uploads like when they have songs out they don't upload as regularly as us we're in we're doing two videos a day like so it was like pewdiepie stampy as well it's up there other minecraft youtuber and then probably yeah kids nursery rhymes or unboxing videos that was like the top five top ten look at that yeah but because of that amount of viewership you must be recognized when you step outside of your house.

38:11Yeah. So how does then fame begin to impact you and how you show up? Because you're still the shy guy. I'm still the shy guy. I still am now. Dan and Dan TDM. So when you step out, you're Dan. So how do you balance that? It's interesting because my most popular videos that were Minecraft didn't have face cam. But when I started doing other games or maps and stuff, I did have the face cam. So, yeah, then it started to get recognized out on the street. People would find out where we lived. It was a lot to get used to. People would track down and find out where you lived. Yeah, yeah. And just show up and say, hey, can you play Minecraft with me?

38:59Yeah. It was usually like, so we had the rented place we were in before we went to our own house. was on a school route that was that didn't really come into our radar as an issue because we didn't know that we didn't know it was on a school route where kids would walk like as a shortcut past our house until i got recognized outside because i was getting out of the car or something and then from there it just snowballed so like we couldn't answer the door there was like a windows at the front we couldn't really walk past the school times because they had to be looking in like so yeah we had to move from there and then i don't even know how it got out because we were not on a school route this time but it just must have been talked about like someone must have found out and then it's been talked about and spread throughout this town that that's where we lived because we had some some parents drive to our house like hundreds of miles to the house so their kids could say hi so it spread further in like the town it was like it was somewhere i couldn't find it online but it was somewhere somewhere all right okay so help me understand some parents would drive hundreds of miles to come to your house yeah knock on your door yeah and then you'd answer i would imagine yeah because yeah you just answer it but and and what do they say they say Well, it's his kids.

40:24You can't really say no. So I think most of the parents would send their kids up with that premise that you can't really... It's not their fault, is it? It's not the kid's fault. Yeah. And they're just there to meet me. They don't quite grasp the concept of overstepping that. That's a boundary being overstepped. I don't think they quite grasp that. So obviously get the picture, do the signing, And then I'm very shy and I'm not very good with confrontation either. But there was a point where I had to be like, can you get your mom for me? And then just have a quick, like, this is not okay kind of conversation.

41:07But I don't even know if it was useful because they got what they wanted anyway. Yeah. Tough situation. To me, that is an enormous boundary cross. Yeah. Enormous boundary cross. and this is happening repeatedly yeah so you had to move we had to move yeah because we were just like on a normal street i mean it was a nice house but on a normal street easy accessible no gates no nothing you could just you just walk up to our house so you've now had to move a second time yeah because of because of the fame at that point yeah i don't think we'd have ended up where we were now if it didn't get as crazy as it did gotcha yeah so now you probably live in some undisclosed bat cave yeah kind of it's it's hard to buy them but you'd be surprised deep underground yeah um but with with the recognition though this is what i find interesting is that you feel like you're recognized uh predominantly by you know these are gamers who recognize you and predominantly it was it was kids i did have blue hair for like five years as so it was pretty easy to spot um but the parents would also spot me if they heard my voice about i recognize your voice so yeah that's that's me that's it is is is that one of the reasons why you start with the blue hair um no i just got tired of upkeeping it's quite an upkeep and at this point now i'm just losing it so all right welcome welcome to the club my man Welcome to the club.

42:40With the fame, though, being someone who is notoriously, as you're saying, is shy. Yeah. How is that? How do you operate? Because what I've seen a lot of people do in the industry, right, is have a massive entourage and they stay insulated within that entourage. So therefore, they don't have to deal with the public. Right. Others don't go out. others develop all types of negative coping behaviors um how do you deal with the fame knowing that you're shy i didn't go out so i would only go out during school hours so i would avoid i would only go out between like 11 and one because i knew kids would be at school and then if I went out of like school rush hour that was just I mean it was fine I talk like I've had negative experience but I really haven't like I've never had a negative experience with someone uh recognizing me at all um but it's just the act of being recognized it's just like it was too much for some reason like I'm someone who doesn't like I mean ironically all eyes on me so if someone recognizes me and then other people like well who's this like all eyes then turn on you and and i just i hate that i hate that feeling yeah so i would just avoid it as much as possible what do you hate about that feeling um i don't really know just like yeah the all eyes on you like the pressure of as well like being dan tdm in that moment when i'm just walking around getting groceries being dan like i feel like there's an expectation that i need to be this i don't know what it is like and the expectation to be who they think you are right yeah right and it's not someone who you are it's a part of me but it's not 100 of the time so you know that you have millions of people but namely young people yeah who follow your every move really So you've intentionally positioned yourself as a positive role model.

44:59Yeah. Do you feel or truly understand the influence, the level of influence that you have over these children? I don't think I'll ever quite grasp the, especially when I was at his peak, like the, how vast like the reach was. like you can see it in numbers but when you turn out to people like it's just ridiculous doing the tours and stuff like putting numbers to faces um meeting people them telling you their stories and doing like the charity stuff like all of that really does make you realize how important your silly videos are like i just think that i'm highly critical of myself so i'm like why why do they connect so uh vividly with people but it It can come at certain times in people's lives.

45:55Lots of people have said they've learned an entire language just by listening to my videos. It's when you meet the people in person where it really hits home what these silly videos mean. Yeah. What I truly appreciate is I see that you do understand this because you position yourself specifically as a positive role model. Yeah. I've tried my hardest. I think that's one of the things that set me aside as well. Like, I really tried my hardest to just be kind. I don't know what else to say. Like, just be, yeah, positive and kind and make it just a fun, safe space where you come to watch my videos.

46:39You know it's going to be, like, all the parents always say, like, you are the person we can trust. We can leave him to watch your videos. Right. And we know it's going to be fine. Right. And that meant a lot because I made that conscious decision to do that. Yeah. And yeah, so hearing that is, shows is working. Yeah, yeah. And it's appreciated. I mean, from a parent, you know, it's appreciated because not everyone, I believe, uses their platform for good, you know? Yeah. And so, just so you know, the depths that you influence are, there are no, like, there's no floor to it. There's no ceiling.

47:16Yeah, it's insane. The story is, again, it only really comes to life. when you meet someone and they tell you a story like that, it's still mind-blowing every time. Yeah. So then thinking about the scale of it, you've gone around the world on tour. Yeah. It's Australia. Australia. Is it the... Oh, the Sydney Opera House. The Sydney Opera House. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So second fastest selling artist at the Sydney Opera House. Yeah. second fastest yeah that is that's that's my blue admit yeah that i think that's probably of all the the tour stuff that's probably what i would say is like a pinnacle moment like that is an iconic venue to even be able to play in there is is crazy i don't even know how we secured that because even with a youtuber show everyone was like well that doesn't make sense like what's he gonna do but then to play like an iconic venue like that is yeah it was just next level that was really like wow yeah so you go and you've gone there more than once we did for the the opera house we did four shows over two days three in one day one in the other i think all sold out all sold out yeah that is yeah all right so then at the show what were you doing at the show uh the easiest way for me to describe it is like a pantomime it's like old school uk okay, pantomime.

48:48But when I say that to Americans, usually they don't understand it because they don't quite have the pantomime. But it's like... So there's me and another human character, like as a physical human presence on stage. Then behind me is a big screen where I talk to all my other characters. So it's like the videos, but as much as an effect as we could get it in person. And then we do play games on stage, but it's not me just like sitting there in a chair playing games for an hour and a half it's a fully scripted story where we play games to progress the story there's a villain who we then beat at the end but we also get kids up to play the games to help us at the same time nice and there's elements in the show where the entire crowd can help because i really wanted it to be not so passive to watch i wanted them to feel like they were part of the show as well um even if they didn't get individually picked to come up on the stage there was i think two occasions where the whole auditorium could help i wanted it to feel quite interactive which i think we pulled up yeah yeah you did it you did it so do you plan on going back out on tour uh not currently like i love the live space the feeling of being on stage in front of like a couple thousand people there's nothing that can come back to that feeling it's just a time commitment so we did I think the first tour was over a year and a half total there were gaps in between obviously but it was a lot of work I was still doing two videos a day still didn't have an editor so I was doing it at the same time what is up with you I believe you've made enough to get an editor yeah now I do I still do things myself when I can but um yeah over that time we did it for a year and a half and then took a break and then planned to do another tour but bigger ones like in bigger venues we did four dates in the uk in a readers so that was like between eight and ten thousand people at one time the way you make money on as a tour is do as much as you can like do as many shows as you can yeah and i made the i believe the correct decision to to stop yes but now i can't see myself ever doing at this time i can't see myself doing long tours again just for the time away from kids i just i can't do it yeah impossible exactly i can see it you're locked in you're locked in what i've noticed through you talking about this life story is you keep mentioning your wife yeah in this yeah you know what i mean in pivotal moments you mentioned her name yeah and i find that very interesting okay so you knew each other you start you've you actually met at what age we would have met like a year eight or nine when i got put into our class so we've been around each other since then around year eight or year nine yeah i can't remember how old you are then so let's say 11 yeah 11 12 12 age yeah all right so at that point you're friends i mean not even friends just like in the same class and our last names started with the same two letters so if you had a teacher that would seat you by last name order which was quite common in our school we'd be sat next to each other okay all right so you were four you were match made yeah we kind of were yeah match made by our last names yes at what point does it become romantic because i understand that you were married quote unquote early so yeah at what point do you feel like okay this is this this is more than just a friend um around like sixth form times that's like 16 17 i think just the more we hung out the more you're like oh this this might be more than more than friends and as well i think i didn't i still didn't really talk much like i was still quite a passive um member of this friendship group but she found me interesting for some reason so she would talk to me rather than the other way around interesting yeah even when we were sat close to each other like i was just like let's just get through the school day but she would try and talk to me yeah you were not ultra confident no you were not chatting so you're the opposite of these things what do you think that she was drawn to i i'm gonna answer but i am gonna ask her this when i get home because i don't know um there was probably a slight mystery about me i would say because i didn't i didn't say anything i feel like i was into stuff that wasn't that common so like i was really into my music and my musical instruments which in our peer group wasn't that common or like the more confident people were into rugby football like the classic stuff yeah yeah um i play pokemon cards and then played video games so she found that interesting for some reason i'm not sure or quirky or i don't know yeah i think she she probably leaned in to those interests because they were different yeah and what i found is that people who are open-minded what they do is they when you know they're a they're curious if you're open-minded yeah and b you lean into the curiosity so why does he play pokemon cards yeah how do you play like even right now uh my son the one who wants to be the youtube he's in a pokemon club nice you know and he sat down tried to explain it to me i was like how do you play this i still don't quite understand yeah but uh but i think that's probably you know part of it and so you get married at what age 21 20 years 20 i think i was 21 okay this is much younger than the average age yeah especially now yeah it's getting older i think Yes.

54:33How did you know you were ready to be married at 21? Yeah. So I would say this might be a hot take, but I feel like moving in together is way more big of a deal than getting married, I think. Okay. So we had already done that for like three years and we're still working, still getting on. we were like uh attached to the hip like we just get on like we made one of the hardest things you can do which i think is moving in together aside from having kids um we did it like we were successful we were working our way to building light our life together already and then it just felt like felt natural like you just when you know you know kind of thing yeah one of the best decisions you've ever made 100 yeah how do you believe your marriage and when i say your marriage really is is uh because i would imagine your wife is your best friend yeah 100 how would you how do you believe that that marriage has impacted your career and and who you specifically have become to this day i think we complement each other very very well we have two different brains but together they work really well so if i'm unsure or something or i just run everything past her because she has just this level-headedness like it's cliche but i feel like she's always right like she has the what i'm missing in my brain sometimes she has we just complement each other perfectly and she's and i'm not outgoing i don't have loads of friends so she's always been like my go-to like we've been on this journey from literally nothing to now together learning the whole process ourselves like i can never imagine like i've been single this whole time and then try and try and find like a partner i can't even imagine how that would i would approach that now with the way things have gone.

56:38We've just been the perfect team, I think, to be able to tackle this together. You know what I truly resonate so deeply with was when you said that she said, hey, Dan, you should do this YouTube full-time. I distinctly remember, I mean, my career has not had the same arc as yours, but me pivoting from finance into matchmaking was a very important moment in my life. and I distinctly remember going to family members, friends. I even called a meeting of friends to come over to my house and present them this idea. And I distinctly remember almost everyone said, do not do this. Do not go into this career.

57:24This is not the right move for you, Paul. My wife said, no, I think you should do this. Yeah, because they understand you as well. like your family and friends can understand you on a level but i feel like if you have your right other person they understand you and will always understand you at a deeper level than anyone ever will so they know like they're on the same wavelength as you that they know what you're capable of sometimes like i i didn't do the the whole meeting thing but because I knew what they would say. I kept it secret for the longest time until it was successful so I could be like, well, I made the right choice.

58:07But I didn't consult you on it. My wife is the only person I trust 100%. I have people that I trust like 95%, but she's my go-to. If I could ever, only ever consult with one person or talk to one person ever again, that would be her. As Dan and I have both experienced, in a world full of uncertainty, having a partner who truly understands and believes in you can be your greatest source of strength and safety. Trust, shared values, and co-regulation create a safe haven, empowering you to take risks and thrive. Where we have another similarity is we have two boys. Yes. Yes. So fatherhood changes all of us.

58:52Oh, my God, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How did it change you? It's presented a whole lot of challenges I wasn't prepared for. I think you can prepare as much as you want for parenthood, but you'll never be prepared. If anyone says they're 100 % prepared after five years of being a parent, they're lying. And even after you already have a child. Yeah. It's like the second is just a whole other situation. Not the same. We live in a place where there's lots of young families, So there was a point when I was struggling, I was like, but all these people have it figured out. They don't have it figured out. Why don't I find it easy?

59:29Like them, they don't find it easy. Like none of it, no one knows what they're doing. It's just one of them things that you just, you learn as you go. Like I worked so much. The transition going from that to then, that was my biggest thing in life was my work. That was what I was 100 % in for. so transitioning from that and then realizing there's actually something more important than that was i found that quite tricky to navigate but now that i've made that transition they are my they're my world like they're what's important to me i would choose them over everything yes yes and so boundaries what are the boundaries that that you now put in place to protect you to protect that time that you have with them.

1:00:19Asher's almost five. I've only spent two times away from him. One was for a massive opportunity, which isn't out yet. And even that was the hardest decision that I've ever had to make, such a hard decision to make. Like, I've turned down so many things just because it would mean that I'm not there for them. And as well, like, being a parent, you know that things can just happen and I want to be there. if something goes wrong or my wife needs extra support or they need extra support. It's my job to be there, I think. There was a project that I got. It was one of those, I can't turn it down. It's a life-changing opportunity.

1:00:58Yeah. And I would be away for roughly 35 days. That's long. I remember we had just had our first son. I remember going to the airport. My wife dropped me off. I'm in tears. Yeah, yeah. I was the same. but also trying to not make it too much a big deal because i don't want him to feel like i'm disappearing forever like i don't want it to feel like i'm disappearing but like um yeah so hard so i need to come clean and tell you about the love affair i've been having these last two years but before you start thinking that i'm disloyal don't worry my wife knows everything because even jill can't ignore how truly, madly, deeply in love I am with my new show sponsor, Huel.

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1:02:24That's H-U-E-L dot com. When it comes to love, we're all on our own journey. And that means any advice we're given should be tailored to our love goals, not someone else's. This is where my show and Tinder, who sponsor this podcast, have teamed up to help you. Each week on We Need to Talk, I'll explore love and relationships through a different lens so you can get the advice that relates to your romantic situation. Tinder is for all types of relationships, and I truly believe it has the best tools to help you form the connections you're looking for. That might be long-term commitment or short-term experiences.

1:03:04Maybe it's friendship. But regardless of which part of the journey you're on, Tinder and I are here to support you. Their app is full of possibilities, and it's designed to help you explore every kind of connection. It starts with a swipe. So download Tinder today. I would love to talk about mental health. I've seen you emerging on the forefront of this. I'm so pleased you are, in particular, that you are at the forefront of this. But why is this topic in particular, why are you so passionate about mental health? I still It's talked about more now I was like still, it's still growing. Like more people talk about it now than when I was a kid.

1:03:51But I still don't think it's taken 100 % seriously still. It's so important to just try and make it so natural to talk about what's going on in your brain. Even if it's so dark or negative or you don't want to bother people about it. I still feel like there's a resistance to be able to be so open. so I try to be open as open as I can because I have a platform of people that would will listen and maybe take that advice and also mirror that and be open as well yeah and I would imagine too what makes you such a great I think spokesperson if you will you know around this topic is that from a lot of people looking from the outside in, if you had not talked about any challenges you had with your mental health, the assumption was, oh my God, Dan?

1:04:48Yeah. He's living the best life ever. He has no problems. Look at him. He has no problems whatsoever. And that's why when I started doing the research, I think I got caught into that. I got caught into the, oh, what problems does this guy have? Yeah. You know, Forbes says he's making more money than everybody, you know. But if you could, if you could go back, because you've had lots of therapy, which I love that you talk about how open you've been with your therapy. When you go back to when you first became aware of your mental health and it not being at the level that you wanted it to be. Yeah.

1:05:31When was that? What was happening in your life? uh just after i had we had asher was the time your your first son yeah so like five years ago okay because we we had asher and then we went into lockdown as well that was a another catalyst for just falling into a hole that had no bottom it was uh it was tough yeah really tough so five years ago we go into lockdown yeah you are a new parent yeah i think it was three he was born in january so he was like two three months old okay and then i would imagine you're still keeping up with the same level of production i was trying to at that point yeah i was still trying to do i wasn't doing two a day i was doing one a day um but yeah still trying to keep the same level okay so and i would imagine at that point you're probably not sleeping in particular because you're a son yeah exactly yeah yeah and so what begins what do you begin to to feel i think i think before i've had i've always struggled with like when being shy it's all anxiety driven like i still have i would say pretty severe anxiety now in certain situations but i've never i've always just kind of just been able to ignore it and just kind of move on like probably because i was so into the videos and stuff i was just so into that i could just move everything else aside that i was if i was struggling with anything it never became to a point where it's properly disrupts my life i guess until it got to that point where it was so bad that it was just all encompassing in my brain like there was no there was no escaping it this time there was no pushing it aside to focus on something else it was just yeah it took over it took over yeah how so when it takes over how do you describe what that is for someone who might be wondering themselves is this taking over for me yeah for me it was like a spiral so like whenever i have any kind of struggle mentally it feels like a spiral like i'll have one thought that leads to another sport another four and then keeps going and going and going but when it got to the worst point when i was like so sad and down like it feels like i'm very visual so i describe it visually but you're stuck at the bottom of that spiral and it's you don't see any there's no looking up being like oh i could be up here there's nothing above it you're just here you're stuck here the like a cartoon character walks around with a cloud of rain for them the whole time it's that interesting like it's all you can think about is just how hard you're finding everything and those are the thoughts so physically has that manifesting do you feel like are you more lethargic are you like you know physically what's happening to you too yeah so way more lethargic i would sleep because i don't want to be awake that kind of like you don't want to be awake to think what you're thinking so go sleep and then deal with it when you wake up kind of thing i was tired anyway because new parent um so it was quite easy to do um one saying that he wasn't sleeping much in the day either so it wasn't that it wasn't that easy to do but i would try to sleep whenever i could like if i had an hour free in the evening um i would still elect to go to sleep rather than do anything else because i just didn't want to be awake yeah yeah what about your relationship do you feel like you're are you short in terms of yeah i'm sure i'm not talking about it either like i don't we're in lockdown so no one can come over and can't talk to anyone anyway um we have no help because they physically can't come over um and i'm not talking about it because Because I kind of used it as a way to protect my wife, because she's a new parent too.

1:09:48All of this is very, even when you're in the wellest of headspace, it's hard. It's still one of the hardest things you'll do, I think, even if your headspace is good. So when it's bad, I then didn't want to then offload any of that to her to kind of protect her. I didn't want to talk about it. Interesting. What were you protecting her? What did you think you were protecting your wife? Just extra stuff to worry about. Pretty much, yeah. Just offloading some of my mental baggage to her. I didn't want her to have to worry about me as well. So kept it in. In the hardest moments, especially as new parents or in isolating situations, the instinct to protect loved ones by carrying your struggles alone can feel selfless.

1:10:34But suppressing your emotions only deepens the burden. True strength and love lie in leaning on each other, even when it feels uncomfortable. Sharing your worries doesn't make you a burden. It creates space for deeper connection, mutual support and healing, reminding you that you're not alone in facing life's challenges. So you keep it in, you keep it in, you keep it in. And at what point does it feel like it's a breaking point? my breaking point was

1:11:11my breaking point was Samaritans had this this app thing where you could like journal and I wrote down how I felt that day and it wasn't good like I was just like I want out like I don't want to be here anymore so type in the app you went out of life yeah i was done like i was that low that i was i was done but writing it out is very different to thinking it from my perspective i like seeing myself i almost felt like i was watching myself from a third person typing myself out and i almost saw it from like an outside perspective i was like no this is what are you doing i went to my gp just they prescribed me antidepressants straight away so i went on those it felt like a quicker less involved fix like i just take these it's done it's fixed yeah easy yeah and it's and it's not it's not it's more of like a just delayed it a bit so from that point i then talked to my wife and then she was like try therapy she found the therapist like she made it so easy for me to then go to go so you didn't so you didn't get to the point where you wrote it out i did yeah i i physically wrote it out but then reading it back almost felt like i was reading someone else someone else's um typing like it felt really out of body like it was strange it was because i was thinking it the whole time but then physically reading it back was different for some reason wow and and so when you wrote that um do you recall the words uh and i don't know if if if you're comfortable saying what what the words were i remember briefly i have it saved on my phone actually like just because i didn't want it to go anywhere i just wanted it to to look back on if i wanted to it was something like oh i can I say can I say whatever I want yes absolutely it was like I googled suicide today it was something like that and then it was literally like two sentences three sentences it was not long but it was like having a self realization of what you were doing is felt crazy like why are you typing that my god so this I didn't know this I don't think I've really said it properly so So you were, what you were doing was you were Googling how to take your life.

1:13:51Yeah, yeah, I'd done that, yeah. That day? That day. Okay. I don't, it's one of the things I talk to my therapist, it's more of like, fantasy is a weird word to use, but it felt like more of, being blunt, it felt like, I want to do this. that would be my ideal like solution to this this brain space i'm in but having my son was way more powerful like that was i could not leave him that's that's yeah you you think your son is what kept you alive yeah

1:14:33yep yep see yeah father the power of father yeah it changes your chemistry yeah completely it does you just so wow so so so you google that and then you go to the samaritans app yeah they they'd done i wasn't confident enough to ring so i think at the time they only had something to ring but because it was locked down they were having way more like an influx of of people ringing i think and then they set up this this app and i was like oh i'll check out and it was just like a diary like a like a journaling thing and i was like i don't even no, well, maybe try it. I was just like, oh, I'll just type and see what happens.

1:15:12And then even now I feel like if I'm struggling with anything, I just write it. And then it's on the page. It's almost felt like it's left my body and my brain. So it definitely helps. Journalist is so powerful. So powerful. So there was a prompt to help you to express how you were. Yeah, that's right, yeah. And so you wrote that in. You save it. But then you make another life-saving decision and you tell your wife. Yeah. How does that conversation happen? I mean, we know each other on such a deep level that she knew kind of anyway. Not to that kind of extent, but she knew something was right because my whole demeanor has changed.

1:15:57So I'm struggling with everything, I'm sure. I'm not really... I'm not really, like, being the husband I used to be. Do you know what I mean? Like, she knows me on that level that she knew something was up anyway.

1:16:11So the conversation felt quite easy because it was almost like I'd already told her. And then immediately, what does she do? She, I think it was just like, you need to go to therapy. You need external help for this. I was pretty, I didn't believe in therapy. I was like, how can this work? I don't understand. How can someone that knows zero about you help you with your hardest problems? Like, I didn't quite, I just didn't understand how it would work. You were very pessimistic. Pessimistic, like a non-believer. Like, I just was like, nah, it sucked at work. There's no way. Doesn't make sense. For many people, it may take months, you know, before they can see a therapist.

1:16:53So within that, I would imagine their thoughts are still going. Yeah, probably softened slightly because I'd actually said them out loud And then had that like, it felt like an epiphany kind of where I was seeing it from the third person and being like, oh, like there's the realization of stopping that spiral. Like I felt I was still there, but wasn't going any lower. Okay. Just from that, that one moment. So being able to talk about it in particular to your wife, that immediately brought you some relief. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I would imagine also the process of now engaging with a therapist, messaging them, knowing that there was a potential resolution, even though you're pessimistic.

1:17:35Yeah. But potentially there's something on the horizon. Yeah, that was a drive. I was like, okay, let's get to – it's like something to look forward to almost. Okay. Were you still working at this time? Were you still recording videos? uh i don't know because i announced i would take a break and i can't remember how long that break was for it was like the first time i'd ever announced i was taking a break because i was like oh my i had a video prepared being like oh son's my son is born like um i'll be back when i when i want to be basically but i can't remember how long that break was for um so I probably wasn't making videos at that time okay okay so that was then the first time that you've stopped making videos since completely yeah like a full proper break yeah yeah when you begin to look at the drivers behind the mental state that you were in where do you think it's coming from because I know it always comes from multiple places but where was it coming from and Did it have anything to do with your work or stopping your work?

1:18:44Yeah, that probably was that as well because as you slow down, there is the element of the numbers then start going down. So because you're not making as many videos, the numbers go down anyway. So there was that point of like I always had that fear. If I stopped, then it would all disappear because it's a fast-moving – the internet's fast moving so like someone could just i felt like i could be forgotten overnight so that was like a driver for making the videos but then also a struggle when i was like oh i do need to slow down but that fear of them falling off completely was quite scary so you're thinking that so what's going down though is it the like the subscriber right probably views yeah how many subscribers you're getting per day like that's when they they started introducing so many more analytical parts of the website where you could deep dive into analytics and see what was happening which is pretty unhealthy yeah i would say so yeah because so you're you're actively thinking yeah i'm losing i'm losing relevance yeah you're always fearing the point of like falling off and then you're like oh i'm in that now it's it's happening now kind of thing okay all right so that's one driver yeah towards it what else that you've now unpacked um to realize well yeah what led you to to being in that mental state i think i mean lockdown was a big part of it because the world was like well what do we what we're doing now what's going to happen afterwards i spent too much time online seeing like what could potentially happen after lockdown and i was Like, I just, like, what's the point?

1:20:31If things get really bad, like, what's the point? So I was scared about that. And also because we had a new son or a kid, like, growing up in a completely different world was a potential at that point. That was scary. And then almost feeling like I didn't quite know what I was doing being a parent as well. Like, I felt more like I should have been more prepared. But, like, looking back, I know that no one's really prepared. You just kind of get by. You learn on the job kind of thing, which is okay. See, I was probably struggling with that too because I'm a perfectionist. I don't like getting things wrong.

1:21:09And then I felt like I was getting things wrong. And I was like, oh, how do I get it right? How do I do this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see it. Lack of sleep. Like this is significant. And this is actually before we had our first child. this is the one area that I truly wish someone sat both of us down and said look you are not going to sleep yeah for the next several months I'm glad you said that because I agree with that 100 % like people say it but almost like a joke yes it's a yeah it's like a flippant comment yeah but it's it sounds awful but it's like a torture method like it's if you kept someone awake like Like you are when you have a child that doesn't sleep.

1:21:55It's so difficult to function. At the same time, you're looking after a child for the first time. It's so difficult. I'm glad you said that. You have the most incredible responsibility ever that will ever be presented to you. It's like, okay, take care. Yes. You have no sleep. Right. And then you're still maintaining life. Yeah. You know, so I'm now, like, in your zone. I see it. Like, I remember how sleep-deprived I was. Yeah. And it was. It felt like torture. Yeah. It's really hard. And as well, I think, similar to what I was saying about everyone knows what they're doing already, like, my parents have done it, so it's fine.

1:22:37It's, like, just something everyone does. Everyone's also, like, what's something I really struggled with is everyone is also telling you all the time how happy you must be. Because you've had your first child. It is a happy experience. But if you're not feeling that at the moment, it makes you question it even more. You're like, so why don't I, why am I not feeling this way? Yeah. I mean, that was my experience. That was absolutely my experience. It's one of those where you're right. Everyone's like, oh, my gosh. Right? And you're like, one is you literally cannot think. Because I'm going back to that state now.

1:23:15I don't want to go back to it. But it was, I just remember a cloud. I felt like I was. It feels like it, yeah. A cloud, or I was like in a down gear. Yeah, or like trudging through mud kind of feeling. Becoming a new parent is one of the most joyful yet challenging transitions. And the restlessness, sleep deprivation can feel like a fog or even a form of torture. Society often romanticizes the experience, making it harder to admit when you're struggling. but it's vital to know you're not alone in feeling overwhelmed, disconnected, or unsure. Many share this journey in seeking support, whether through therapy, open conversations, or community, can help you untangle the weight and rediscover the beauty of this profound responsibility.

1:24:00It's okay to not have it all figured out. So all of these pieces are just layering on top of each other. Yeah. So you see the therapist. Yeah. You don't want to. I don't want to, no. But you see the therapist. Sounds like the therapist also was life-saving for you. Yeah, she was amazing. Yeah. I feel like she gave me the manual to my brain, like the instruction manual to my brain of how it works and how you end up in a certain space. Like even now, I'm not actively having therapy now, but I still use everything I've learned to decipher my own thoughts sometimes. Be like, oh, that's why I feel that way.

1:24:42because of this like i always say it feels before i started therapy it felt like i was on on a road and then you have all these like a spaghetti junction in front of you that's also very foggy so you choose one at random and hopefully you don't go backwards or downwards but with therapy the fog is lifted and all the roads are straight and you can see where the destination is that's how it feels i think you know uh what type of do you know the type of therapy that you went to? CVT. Okay, yeah. Cognitive behavioral therapy, yeah, which is incredibly helpful. Yeah. Incredibly helpful. And almost reprogramming the mind.

1:25:26And so it's interesting that you said that you went for a period of time. Some people and many therapists say you should go for a specific amount of time, and then I'll hand you the manual, right? And you go. Others say, no, continue to come in for maintenance, et cetera. yeah did did you you stopped at a certain point yeah okay because to be honest i already came back with like positive experiences like i came back explaining to her what she had taught me so like i just remember a point where i was like oh actually i've already figured this out it just came to a point where she didn't have anything to say back she was like just let me sit in it for a second i was like oh i've already dealt with this like my whole thing was like the divorce was the main my main catalyst for my most of my mental health issues because i then prepare for the worst at all times right and then that then crept into being a parent as well and then but weighed me down way heavier than it did before so i think therapy you think you know the reason for the way you're feeling but then actually it helps with all aspects with your life of your life rather than what you're just feeling at the moment so it makes you just makes you discover things about yourself you know as it clicks it literally feels like puzzle pieces clicking your brain you're like i could almost hear the click when i when we were talking and then it just fit like everything just fit and made sense and that's how it does untangle everything which yes you can't really explain unless that feeling unless you've done therapy i think so So that's why I try to get across to people if they're struggling.

1:27:10Yeah. I think that's an amazing analogy of what it is. It's like it all clicks. Yeah. You know, it's like a puzzle almost. Exactly. The pieces are all there but not in place. Boom. And it's in place. Didn't you have to go back? Weren't you filming YouTube videos while you were going through therapy and while you were on antidepressants? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So how do you do that? And do you do it because, or do you do it in a way where Dan TDM becomes more of a character at that point? Yeah, I think you have some of that. Like I took up, I don't know why. I took up streaming for some reason while I was sleep deprived and looking after a new child.

1:27:56I don't know why I did it. I was like, that was my new thing to focus on. I was like, I'll do this. Okay. Because it fit kind of with the schedule. like if he slept for a couple hours in the evening i could do it then um so that probably didn't help because then i would get addicted to the streaming side and then stay up late then have a broken sleep and it would make everything way worse so yeah don't don't take up streaming when you have a newborn that's not a good idea like i probably could have carried on but like i am faking it like i i got to a point where i was like almost pretending to be happy or putting myself in a happy space and I just got to the point where I was like I could just be honest instead just say this is how I'm feeling right now instead of acting like everything is okay so I feel like that is also a massive problem that humans have like is pretending to be okay when you're not and I was being that So it just felt a little bit uneasy.

1:28:53I've read that you've stated this where you were consciously watching others, like there was a comparison happening. So it wasn't just your viewership dwindling. It was seeing the increase of others. Yeah, because you always, even unintentionally, you're still in a competitive space. So it can be quite competitive. So you are always subconsciously comparing yourself to others. Yeah. And you were still a one-person operation. I mean, it was you and your wife at this point. Yeah. And I did have an editor at that point, but that was it. That was it. Okay. And then in particular too is, so this is all happening to you.

1:29:43Your goal was never to put this quote-unquote burden on your wife. But here it's all out. like now I'm from partners on antidepressants and therapy, etc. How does that impact your relationship? For me, it felt quite selfish because you're like almost moving the spotlight onto you, be like, oh, he's struggling. He needs the attention right now, which I didn't like. I didn't want that. I just wanted to, I just didn't want to feel that way anymore. So it felt, there was a bit of guilt attached to it I felt like I was taking all of the attention, I guess. So, but if anything, it's just strengthened the relationship because communication was not my strong point.

1:30:28Whereas now I feel like I'm way better with it because in the moment it's tough. Like I am someone who still struggles to communicate my feelings correctly. To this day, it's still something we're improving on. But I think that is the, that's the foundation for a strong marriage. Like, if you don't have that, it crumbles. Yeah, what do you have? Yeah, what do you have? What do you have? How does gender play a role in your, you know, unwillingness to even talk about how you were feeling? Do you think it does play a role? I think it used to. I think I'm very interested in that not being the case.

1:31:14but it is especially in that scenario like i was saying i didn't want to take anything away from gem like there were struggles that she was having as well like she's breastfeeding she's doing all the feeding because because she's breastfeeding so i can't i can't help with that um i didn't want to take away from her struggles so i didn't want to be like oh by the way i'm just help me I just didn't want that I didn't want the attention I didn't want to take anything away from her I wanted to protect her from all that and I think there was we did like prenatal classes I think they called where you try and prepare yourself for having a kid and there was a lot a lot of talk in that was about postnatal depression but only from the female side there was no talk about the male side so I was trying to protect her from that I didn't want her to experience that.

1:32:08Ironically, I did. Yeah, the opposite happened. Yeah, but when you're saying that in that prenatal class, it was about, okay, this is what we need to do for the wife. I distinctly remember those classes, too. And I remember nothing about, here's what you need to do for the husband. Yeah. And that discussion, I think even when you're talking about men's mental health, right, I think some people view it as this is just a trendy topic right now. That's all it is. It's a trendy topic. But when you peel back the layers and you begin to look at what is an epidemic, you realize, okay, no, this is not a trendy topic.

1:32:55This is something that we need to address. And I think that's the importance of so many people like yourself, talking about their experiences around it. I'm curious, for everyone watching, listening, who have someone in their life that they believe could be going through a mental health crisis, right? you've acknowledged physically some of the things that were that you that had changed in your life being more lethargic short etc just uninterested in general and anything really what what do you think that they should be looking out for i would imagine those things but then also what do you believe they can do most to help their loved ones i'd say that's quite a tough question in my situation I believe it was it had to come from me but only because if someone did ask if I was fine I would have said yeah like I just would have said I'm fine like I can deal with it I'm okay like I just you still even if someone asked you you're okay you still have to have that within you to then be like no like it's some of it does have to come from you and it is tough like it is hard to admit that but yeah from from my personal experience a lot had to come from me because i just would have been like yeah i'm fine yeah so how does it come from you you know how how does it for the person that who's who is listening watching who does feel the spiral yeah do you feel like like like they're they're at the bottom of the spiral as you described how do they build up the strength to say I need help.

1:34:36I mean, it's just trying to have that perspective that you are struggling. You do need to admit to yourself and be honest with yourself that you need help. And whether that's you talk to someone or talk to some professional, like a doctor straightaway, reach out, start the process. Because if you don't, then the only way is down, really. If you don't reach out, like reaching out your hand, when you're sliding down a slide, reach in so that someone could stop you, you've got to reach out first. Remember how I was saying earlier about the level of influence that you have? Is that I believe truly by you simply saying those words, there's a mass number of people who will reach out.

1:35:26I hope so. I really hope so. Yeah, just because you're saying it. Yeah, which is kind of crazy. like yeah like when i make videos that are more open and stuff like is just me talking in my room like to a camera so the impact is still

1:35:45feels you don't see the impact because you're talking to a camera and then the impact happens in someone else's life um sure i hope i hope it really does help people like i think there was someone in my family that then messaged me after I made my video saying about um going on antidepressants that made him reach out and then he ended up on antidepressants and now it's is okay now like that was one of those moments so I was like oh the videos actually help like they're not just a way of me self um being my own therapist it's not a way of me just getting things off my chest actually it actually does help right it helped one person at least so oh yeah oh yeah do you feel like this is going to be part of the next chapter of your life i mean what when you think about the direction that you want to move into because you don't have to i mean you could just sit on the couch all day if you want to so now that you're in this position where you can just do what you want what do you want to do i think from the mental health perspective i don't want to be the person that's like i don't want to be too preachy about it i just want it to come quite naturally like if if it's something i am something i'm struggling with at the time or something i do think needs to be said i will say it but i also don't want to become like uh yeah too preachy yeah because it feels disingenuous then i think if you're making it too forced.

1:37:21It needs to be genuine. This seems to be your through line. Really? Authenticity seems to be your thing. Yeah. I feel... I mean, I'm a terrible liar, so I can't lie about stuff. Everything needs to be genuine and real. Especially nowadays, everything's quite fabricated and feels quite too good to be true and too perfect. It's okay to just not be that. No one has a perfect life. It can seem it, but no one does. No one does. And the authenticity, I mean, the one thing that was interesting when I was telling my boys about you coming in, the one thing that they mentioned, which it seems like everyone in their world is talking about, is your tweet.

1:38:17But to me, it speaks to authenticity. Yeah. Because what I feel like you were saying, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like what you're saying is, hey, if you are anyone, not just a YouTuber, but if you're anyone with a platform and you speak to someone, you have to be conscious and aware of who those people are and whatever products and services you're delivering to them. it needs to be for them not for you yeah yeah because as well if you treat it that way i feel like if you do something for them the benefits that you want will come anyway like you don't have to force it the other way around um i think as youtubers we have broken the mold but some but as it's got so popular now it's kind of going the other way around again like it's becoming quite corporate whereas I'm very much because I'm old school I guess like I'm still person with camera which feels genuine and the people that I like to watch are just people with cameras like sharing their passions or playing games or whatever like I feel like that's that's what's cool about YouTube that's what I love about it and I feel like we're just tipping too far the other way now which is slightly disappointing i guess we had a chance to break the mold not become become it so yeah that's that's kind of the thought space of where that tweet was coming from i think it was just tipping too far the other way like and at the end of the day i can do what i want but um i feel like yeah we had we have a chance to do do things differently in a more authentic way and then what you're trying to seek will come eventually if you if you're doing it right anyway yeah i can't imagine the shy introverted dan yeah sitting down to send that tweet knowing what could happen no no i almost didn't tweet it as well it was just late at night it came out i was five minutes from going to bed anyway it came out and i was like okay i only speak on something if i'm a hundred percent confident in what i'm feeling like i'm always open to like the opposite opinions other points of view that's cool but i feel like at this point especially because it like it was geared towards kids that was the the thing that really bothered me about it um yeah i just i just hit tweet and then the world imploded for a week even now Yeah.

1:41:00But I would imagine, though, that you sent that and I'm not putting words in you. You tell me, but it feels like you sent that to kind of say, look, as an industry, like we need to be going more left instead of more right instead of left. Yeah. Right. So it was a way to say, let's course correct. Let's change what we're doing. Yeah. But it feels like the response was not that. It feels like the response was, look at this guy. Who is this guy to tell us what to do? I think you see yourself as kind of like an elder statesman. A little bit, yeah. Yeah, and it's kind of like you're saying, hey, guys, this is what we should be doing.

1:41:49yeah what's your opinion on youtube as a career or just a content creator as a career so i love making videos i just love making stuff like that's what i love to do and then i share it um but i think you can do youtube without that but to me i don't see a point i don't see a point in that that's not fulfilling to me to someone else it can be fulfilling like it can be like a like a machine like you're running a business that's cool that's that's fine but for me my love comes from making videos if you have stuff you're passionate about you can you can make content about anything and I guess kind of going back on what I said about making videos just it doesn't even have to necessarily being creating content that you love or creating videos that you love just creating and sharing it like some of some people that are really popular don't make the best videos they don't make the best content but you can tell it comes from a place of like love.

1:42:47TikTok's really good for this and like Shortform's actually quite good for this sometimes. The most, the people I watch the most on formats like that is just someone with a phone on a guitar. Like it's, it doesn't have to be that deep anymore. Like as long as you've got that connection, it might not be as popular but it definitely means more. That was poetic. That was pretty much. That was good. You paused, you were like, that was pretty good. That was pretty good. those were biased if you have something you're passionate about like try like i think a lot of people nowadays feel like i can't do that or like that person got lucky or i wish i could do that like i i fully believe that i part of there's something in me that believes i could do anything and i wish more people felt that because i feel like a lot of people feel stuck like it's not going to happen for everyone like even to i don't know if your aspiration is to become a full-time career even not like on a massive scale to be like rich or whatever like that that's a that's a top one percent goal most people won't make that but someone's got to and if you don't try you can't be one of those people so i think in anything you want to do if you have a passion for anything just just try just try yeah just try just just try all right so on that since you open up that door let me walk through it okay okay i know especially having been that person just try yeah but one is how do you know what to try how do you know what the passion is well what do you love like if you love knitting like start doing tiktoks about knitting i don't know there's there's there's an audience out there for literally anything like if you have a hobby you're not the only person in the world with that hobby like i was lucky my hobby is one of the biggest hobbies in the world so mine went a bit crazy it is generally one of the best jobs in the world, like, I wouldn't change it.

1:44:45I'm with you. My youngest, he is our barista at home. Okay. He loves coffee. Nice. Loves everything about coffee. And I keep telling him, I was like, just record yourself doing coffee. Yeah. Talk about it. So give me some advice to give him, right? Because I think that's an obscure enough, you know, passion for an 11-year-old. Yeah. So he loves coffee. What should he do? with that film himself making coffee with an iphone or android whatever you use like even if everyone else has to leave the room like it can be it's a weird experience talking to a camera like it just is but from someone watching a video they rarely think about how it's made so it might feel kind of cringe like filming yourself but the final products could be pretty cool like i can see a niche for that already like an 11 year old making this this artisan coffee like i can see it it's endearing it's it's cute like i think so why not try it yeah yeah just just do it you don't even have to post the first thing you make like just just make it and then learn it like a lot of my stuff everything that i've learned in terms of videos is self-taught i've if i need to do a certain fade or a certain transition or how do i render at the highest quality i just google it like this is not something i've studied professionally or anything it's all through uh i have a problem how do i how do i do it or another piece of advice that i read recently was you can do 80 of the work the other 20 is the viewer's work like i'm because i'm a perfectionist if i i try and get everything to 100 before i release it and i notice that's actually stopping me being creative because i won't release anything then so if you get yourself 80 happy you're good the other 20 will come yeah and and it comes yeah it comes in droves because it has come to you do you know exactly how many youtube subscribers you have you must i do it to i got 29.1 million subscribers in the minute 29.1 million more subscribers than many countries in the world.

1:47:05It's a lot of power. It's a lot of people, a lot of power. It is. But you know what? I'm glad you have it. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I'm glad you have it. I have a final question for you. Everyone gets it. Can't wait to hear yours. You have had many incredible conversations throughout your life. right when you think about the most impactful conversation that you've had who was it with and what did you talk about oh

1:47:40that's a very good question i mean the most impactful for me we've probably gone over is is probably the conversation i had with my wife was to give this a go because if i had if i hadn't done that at a specific time I wouldn't be where I am now at this exact point like it's all about a lot of what I did it was timing so that was a very important conversation to have and very impactful in my life I found this conversation pretty impactful I would say

1:48:13yeah I spent a lot of my life not talking so to other people so I don't have a lot of options to pick from but Yeah, I'd say probably most impactful conversations in my life have been with my wife. I see it. I see it. So I have an observation. Okay. I'm a people watcher, and I was very, very, very curious to talk to you. Right? Very curious to talk to you. And there's one characteristic, one trait about you that you have not labeled that I actually believe is the reason why your wife selected you. Okay. Is the reason why she stayed by you, is the reason why I know your sons adore you, is the reason why you have 29.1 million subscribers on YouTube, and it's the reason why you continue to change the world, and you've not said the one thing that it is.

1:49:12You know what that is? No. You are kind. I try to be the best I can be at that, yeah. You are incredibly kind, man. Thank you. Be kind. And I think in a world where we say, you know, nice guys finish last. No, you're the nice guy that's winning. And I applaud that. And we need to see more of that. You know, I think you have been incredibly kind. And you show that kindness does win. So continue to be that way. Thank you. That means a lot to me. Thank you. Got it. You got it. Thank you. Once again, this was such an insightful conversation for me. I learned so much about Dan TDM. And can I say, my children are ecstatic that their pops got to meet their hero, Dan TDM.

1:50:02So like always, I'll give you my top takeaways. Number one, following your passion starts with believing in yourself and taking that first step. Even if the path feels uncertain, too often people hold back, thinking success is for others. But as Dan reminds us, someone has to achieve their dreams, and it could be you. If you don't try, you'll never know. Embrace the journey, trust your passion, and give yourself the chance to create something extraordinary. My next takeaway. Recognizing when you or your partner need external help is crucial for maintaining both personal and relational well-being.

1:50:44Sometimes the most loving thing you can do is encourage professional support, creating space for your partner to decompress outside the relationship. Neglecting mental health can strain even the strongest bonds. But as today's discussion underscores, seeking the right help can transform not just your relationship, but your entire outlook. And last but not least, as Dan shared, even if you're skeptical about therapy, it's worth taking that first step. You might wonder, like Dan did, how can someone who doesn't know me help me with my hardest struggles? But often it's in those moments of doubt that taking a leap can be life-changing.

1:51:25Trying therapy isn't just about seeking solutions. It's about opening a door to self-discovery and proving to yourself that healing and growth are always within reach. And that's it. Please remember, if you're affected by anything discussed, we've included links in the show notes to organizations that can provide support. Dan mentions Samaritans, who are a fantastic charity and are there to speak to you on the phone 24-7 should you ever need someone to reach out to. Remember, you are not alone. Help is always available. Thanks so much for watching, and just remember, around 9 in 10 of you watching these videos aren't subscribed yet.

1:52:07Now, no pressure at all, but if you're enjoying the content, subscribing is a super simple way to stay connected with us, and it also helps a ton when growing the channel. We also look at every comment, so make sure you comment with your guest ideas below, and we'll get your favorite guest on our future episodes. I appreciate you being here, and we look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Every episode of this podcast comes to life with the help of Adobe Express, the quick and easy Create Anything app from Adobe. Even if you don't have any design experience. I couldn't be more grateful for how much making this podcast lights me up.

1:52:45Getting to have these conversations, sharing stories, and connecting with you all, it's the work that makes me feel truly alive. But finding that kind of work doesn't happen overnight. I've taken risks, switched lanes, and followed paths that have felt uncertain, all in the hope of doing something meaningful. Whether you're launching a new business, starting a side hustle, or simply putting your ideas out into the world, you've got to be willing to take that first step. And Adobe Express is the tool that helps make those steps easier. It's got ready-to-go templates and AI-powered features to create professional designs, social media posts, and logos in minutes, whether you're an amateur or a seasoned designer.

1:53:24It's free to try. Just search Adobe Express and see where it takes you.

1:53:37Thank you.