EXCLUSIVE Ashley Roberts On The Pussycat Dolls, Breaking Up & Battling Anxiety “My Body Shut Down!”

30:46So then it's like, okay, well, now what? But I was quite lucky. When I was quite bored, let's say in my hotel room by myself, I grabbed a makeup brush and I went downstairs. And there used to be always like some people hanging around, you know, the hotel and stuff. And I just, I started videoing me talking to them. Were you living in a hotel? No, sorry, when I was on the road with the dolls. Oh, okay. Sorry, yeah, yeah. You were doing that? In the doll days. Yeah, so I'd go down like, yeah. And so I started doing these little videos, not thinking anything of it, just putting out there because I was trying to just entertain myself.

31:21Oh, okay. And then when I got out of the dolls, like, I started having some meetings, and they're like, I've seen some of the videos that you've been putting out. Like, we'd love for you to come do some stuff on E! Some stuff on MTV. And that kind of started the ball rolling with me presenting. I see. I see. What about dance, though? This is something that you have, that was your first love. Yeah, that was crushing. That was really crushing for me because I felt like I walked away from it. and I couldn't even watch like dance programs on television it was like because it just it was too hard for me to do because I just felt like I didn't didn't want to do it anymore and I also felt like because I'd been doing the dolls for so long I'd lost some of my technique that I'd worked so long for like before that so I felt like I wasn't good enough anymore to to go to these classes and just show up and then coming outside of the group.

32:17It was like, I just, I, it was my ego really. Cause I should have just gone in those classes anyways and, and, and dance. But I just sort of wanted to like shove that in a box and move forward and try and figure out some other things. But, okay. But help me understand. So you started dance, you said at three, correct? Three. Yeah. So you start dance at three. Yeah. You've entered in your late twenties. You've been dancing your entire life. It's been your escape. Yeah. And according to my opinion, you're one of the top dancers in the world. Well, I don't know about that. OK. But I mean, you're in the number one pop group.

32:59The lead dancer. No, you're the number one pop group. You're dancing in the number one pop group in the world. You're dancing. That means that you are in the top one percent of what you're doing. okay you are and then you just stop yeah what's the reason why I just I just felt like the relationship that I had with like the reason I got into that group was because of the passion the passion led me to A, B and C and the passion wasn't there it was like it was wrapped in and entangled with so many other complex things within my past and my life and my work. And, um, and then I, again, like, I think my ego has gotten away of like, well, you're not like where you used to be as well.

33:55So just like, just put that aside. Like, you know, that we don't need to do that now. Okay. Um, which I mean, was like, literally, I feel like I, part of my soul, like, um, I know that sounds super deep and heavy, but I felt like a piece of my soul died when I stopped dancing because I was just like, yeah. You were doing the TV bits? Yeah. And then was it from the UK you were called to do I'm a Celebrity? Yeah. Something happened to a friend of mine, and she was like, Ash, we just never know in this life. We don't know what's going on. And I was like, you know what, you're right. I'm just going to say yes to this crazy adventure.

34:41I mean, I'm a picky eater. I'm a weird sleeper. I don't like snakes or rats or any of those things. I was like, what am I doing? But I was like, I'm just going to say yes. I'll have some wild stories to tell. Plus, I thought I'd be kicked out quite early. Like, honestly, I was like, okay, I'll probably be in there a couple days. And it was cut to I'm on a plane and I land and I'm like, what have I done? I just didn't know what I'd done, what I'd signed up for, which in some ways was good. I think ignorance was bliss in some ways because some people who hadn't known some of the tasks and stuff.

35:21Yes. Probably knew maybe what was coming. But yeah, that changed the whole direction literally like of my life. I mean, I. I'm a celebrity. Yes. I never thought I would be living here. And I did The Jungle. I was there till the end. You were runner-up that year. Yeah, with Charlie, Charlie Brooks. It's been the biggest gift, honestly, like that show and then coming out of it and being scooped up by the UK public. It's changed my life in the most positive way. So I just was like, just so grateful. True story. My family and I land in an airport in the United States. In the airport, three things happened that made me say, I'm leaving the U.S.

36:11immediately. First, my son's getting some candy. The candy, the row of candy was one row below the gun magazines. There must have been 10, 12 different gun magazines. The candy is underneath it, so you must look at the gun magazines. That's one. Secondly is I go to order coffee, and the size is super, super large jug or a barrel. They said this will fit into your cup holder, and then we'll extend outward so you get a bowl. A bowl. I was like, I don't need a bowl of coffee. That was two. Three is I walked into an elevator, and everyone's super loud. Yeah. I know, and you're like, was I like, am I like that?

37:01Am I loud? Yeah, is that me? I know, it's trip, isn't it? It was too much. So I think that we can empathize and sympathize with each other on living here. Yeah. So you make the move here. Yes. And then how quickly do you then do Strictly? I, well, ended up getting Heart Radio, Breakfast Radio, my radio show that I do Monday to Friday, which we've come in contact with many times while you've been promoting your amazing books and all the work that you do. That's what made me officially be here, living here like whole time because of the job itself. I mean, I already was mostly here, but I was still kind of popping back and forth.

37:47And then, you know, after my father passed away, that was the same year that Strictly happened. and then everything sort of just fell in line and it was like, I feel like also being sort of guided to stay where I'm most supported. Yes. Which was here. Yes. Yeah. How did you think the experience at Strictly? Because now that I understand how integral dance is to your life, how you had stopped dancing and then to go on to Strictly where you have to dance, basically you probably practiced every day for it or when we got into it yeah the mere mortals would have to practice every day you probably practiced two times no no no but how did that begin to then shape your thoughts around dance again like did you fall back in love with it yeah so okay the year before I was on it I got sort of whispers that like we might have Ash we might want you to be a part of the show this season and I was like oh I don't know I don't know and my dad was like you have to like you like I will fly to London to see you dance like because my that was my dad loved watching me dance and he had this little whistle he would do every time before I hit stage so I knew where he was in the audience and um he was like you like you gotta do I want to see you dance I was like I don't know anyways it didn't end up working out that year um and cut to the next year unfortunately you know he was no he wasn't here any longer he wasn't here anymore um so when I got the call to do it it it was wrapped up in so many things because it was my dad wanting me to dance again and wanting to see me do that and then also my for myself to to dance again like and then I was learning new styles that I had never learned before.

39:48And also it was the first season ever in Strictly History where they brought in couples choice. So couples choice is where you're allowed them to do a style outside of Latin and ballroom. And when I grew up, what I loved the most was contemporary because It was very, like, self-expressive. And so I got to choreograph a dance in contemporary style dedicated to my dad, which also happened to fall on remembrance. Wow. I mean, so. Look at that. The, like, the timing of everything was just, it was magical. Yes. And people that were watching, like, I wasn't just dancing for myself. I was dancing. And that's what's so beautiful about that art is like it can connect you and use a piece of music to bring you in and have that human experience together through this beautiful piece of music and a beautiful piece of art.

40:45And it happened at that time. And I was like. Look at all that. Yeah. Nothing just happens. Right? It was wild. It was, yeah, it was. It felt very special to me. So I really just blocked out, like, you know, the outside noise and was just like, I'm going to use this as a way to get back into an art form that I really love and also, you know, do this for my dad. Look at that. Yeah. Look at that. Yeah. And then look at how well you did. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I was getting the votes on that one, but I got, you say it because I got to the end. Yeah. But I was in the bottom several times. But you got to the end.

41:34Yeah. You got to the end. I was just happy being there. I was. I was like, thank you. It was hard. Though you say the dance is up. It is hard work. And I knew that. I'm like, okay. And I train and I like to do my workouts and stuff. I was like, I feel like I'll be all right with this. Woo-wee. Yeah. But see, you're being, I think, too hard on yourself because as I look here at my notes, I see that you received none other than a perfect score of 40 after dancing to Tom of my life. I know, do the dance. The lift. Like on that lift. A perfect score, so come on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's the scores, the scores are nice, but the experience and the timing of it all was just what was most important to me.

42:33Yes. Yes. So did you fall back in love with dance? I made a promise to my mom that I would continue it. I don't do it every single day, but I still continue to get together with some friends and do little bits and stuff here and there just to keep the body moving and keep it going. Okay. Paul, your show sponsor Tinder wants to know, can you remember the very first spark you felt between you and Jill? Absolutely. The first spark was the first time I saw her, which was from behind, to be honest with you. She was walking up ahead with her father. She turned around, and I thought, oh, my goodness.

43:15She looks like a model. Like, she's perfect. And then what happened is, because we were in a summer program, we went to the class, and Jill had the highest test score among our class. And I knew, wow, at that moment, that was it. You know, she was beautiful. She was smart. That was the spark. That's all I needed. The spark is where it starts. It's like you're opening a new book. It is the beginning. And that's why the spark is so exciting and so beautiful. What's great about Tinder, it's the place that allows you to start the spark. And then you can carry that spark into real life where it matters most.

43:54So remember, it starts with a swipe. Download Tinder today. Now, you just mentioned that, in part, you joined Strictly because of your father, right? If we could spend a moment on this. Your father was a musician, correct? Yeah, drummer, percussionist. I mean, very creative, very artistic. And that's what I loved probably most about him. I mean, I remember just my earliest memories is music being played in the house. His passion for music was just something that, like, was my dad. I mean, he was drumming on everything. Everything was a space to make music, and that was what was also so cool. I just felt like he was cool.

44:43He was cool. Yeah. Did he, I read that he even drummed on your mother's stomach. Yeah. Yeah, on her belly. On her belly. Yeah. So you had that rhythm early. Yeah, I think, I mean, my mama kind of says like I came out the womb dancing. So clearly there was a challenge between your parents because eventually they split. Yes, yes. But when you just look back and you think about Ashley as the little girl, how did you feel? I felt quite lonely and isolated in a sense because, again, like you said, we didn't have these kind of conversations. And at that age, I didn't quite understand what was going on.

45:24I just felt like my role was to be there with my dad through his tough times. I wanted to be there for him. Interesting. So you felt like your role was more of almost a parent to your father or a big sister maybe to your father. It was more like I'm going to sit here through the storm and make sure you go to bed, make sure everything's okay. So I mean, maybe looking back now, there was probably a switch in the parental child role. But at the time, it just more was like, I'm going to sit here through the storm. That's sort of just how I felt. I felt like I needed to be there. Wow, interesting. And just to explore this a little bit more, and we'll move on, is because you just said, I'm going to be here for you.

46:12Make sure that you go to bed. Yeah. So was it literally that? Was it literally, I'm going to make sure that you go to bed? Yeah, some nights I wanted to make sure that he was, you know, going to bed and was still breathing. Yeah. Okay. It's a lot for a little girl to take on. How do you think that shapes you as a little girl? I think it, well, you know, it gave me a lot of drive because I felt like I was going to rely on myself, you know. And in some ways that's given me that oomph to like, I look after myself, take care of myself, provide for myself, go out there and want to, you know, keep moving, put one foot in front of the other.

47:04but also I think where I struggled then was was relationships friendships or you know I had had good friends but I think I always I sometimes struggle with the I learned these attachment styles right the avoidment avoid attachment style is probably what I relate to the most and which is probably just more of a protectiveness of well I don't know where this could go or I feel safer just taking care of myself. Yes, yes. And so, you know, with avoidance, what I know is that what ends up happening is it's a result of not having, feeling safe with your primary caregivers. And by you saying that there was a little bit of distance between you and your mother and you having to be almost the protector for your father, then what ends up happening is the only person you can rely on is yeah myself yeah yourself yeah so that's how you felt as a little girl yeah i i yes that is true and then again i go back to being so grateful for my dance and my community because i think if i didn't have that it would have been even worse.

48:24I recently was on a panel with the gentleman who heads calm in the UK and there was a stat that he mentioned on the panel that completely blew me away that was under the age of 50, the top reason for death for men is the taking of our lives. Under the age of 50. Under the age of 50. So when something like that happens and he can't take it anymore how does that impact the person that was trying to protect him all this time this is tricky um because every every person who has gone through this could have a different circumstance so um for me knowing how much he did suffer

49:24um i mean i wish like again when i think back to to him like when i was younger and seeing him as that little boy i wish i could give him the tools that i know now you know because maybe by having those there would have been a different story to tell um but unfortunately that he didn't have those So I have a, well, this photo. So fairly close to this, that photo being taken, I had a friend take his life. And it was my first experience with going through that. Yeah. Right. And one of the things that I remember looking back or I remember at the time is that we, the friendship circle, that we placed blame on ourselves because we felt as if there were multiple things we could have done, should have done, etc.

50:32We weren't there for him. And it's one of those where I wish I could have gone back and told myself that I wasn't responsible for it. And with the prevalence of suicide throughout the world, we're all, not all, but many of us are now connected to it. A friend, family member, co-worker, etc. And many of us, I think, assume that responsibility. So what lesson do you have for us in that? Because I feel like you're at a place where you've reconciled with what's happened and you've learned from it. So what message do you have for us? Or should I say that boy? I don't know how to answer this, if I'm honest with you, because I just feel like it's such a big responsibility and I don't I don't have all the answers.

51:33You know, I'm just some I'm just a human trying to do the best they can with what's been given to me. I feel like for myself, I really leaned into trying to discover things that made me feel better and people that could support me through what I was going through and experiencing that have a better understanding and better tools than maybe I do. Fair enough. I think reaching out for support is super important. You don't have to suffer alone.

52:18Yeah, and there's people that do care and want to help you. So, yeah. That's fair. And I'll tell you what, it's one of those where I think the better question is, how did you begin to heal? I think you're always healing. I think I'm still healing right now. I mean, you know, it's just, but for me, again, I sort of, like I said before, I've always sort of had this feeling of like there's more out there that haven't quite grasped yet that's going to be able to help. Because nobody like gives us a manual when we're kids and is like, okay, here's how to handle all of this stuff that you're going to go through.

53:02We've got to figure it out. So I think taking steps to finding amazing books that can help you, amazing podcasts, amazing therapists, teachers, mentors, friends, having access to these kind of things, and for yourself, like show up for yourself. You're worthy. You're worthy to heal. You're worthy to, and you're also, it's okay to not be okay, like to experience all the levels. Sometimes, you know, I feel like I'm doing great. And all of a sudden something happens and then I'm like, oh, there it is, out of motion. You know, it's still there. It's still stored in the body a bit. But like I'm working on it, you know, and I'm showing up.

53:47And it's just important to show up for yourself and just maybe a reminder of that, that you're worthy of showing up and keep doing it. Yes. And when you think about showing up for yourself through the years, I know that anxiety is something that you suffered with. It's something that I also have a history of. But it sounds like what you did early on is you would try to self-soothe through, what was it, NyQuil? NyQuil was my little, like, bedside friend. I mean, I was coping. I didn't know what to do. And I was, you know, not sleeping. What point in your life did you begin to, you know, drink, you know, NyQuil?

54:38And by the way, I think Night Nurse is the equivalent. This is the equivalent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I think I was 14. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I went, I was putting a lot of pressure on myself for this choreographer that was coming into town. and I wanted to really show up and be the best I could be. And throughout the night, then I just, I was so anxious that I didn't sleep. And I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't sleep. And then I was worried the next night about not sleeping. And then that happened for a few nights in a row. And I thought I was, I thought I was going out of my mind. And so I was like, well, I need something to help me sleep.

55:16I see that like, you know, on the advertisements, like this is what helps you sleep. So I was just chugging that every couple hours to try and get myself through the night to sleep. 14? At 14. Did your parents know? No. And so that just then became the norm because I was nervous that if I didn't sleep, that I wouldn't be able to.

55:40be myself, really like show up, have the brain capacity to operate through school, work, dance, you know, everything. So I was nervous that my mental health wouldn't be stable. It was probably counterproductive. But at the time, I didn't know. I just felt like sleep's important. We need to sleep. So, yeah. So you would take NyQuil. Mm. And then did that progress? Yeah, yeah. I started taking, I mean, anything that was going to help me sleep. It was Xanax was really helpful for many decades of my life. For many decades. Yeah, I've had sleep issues since I was 14. And I didn't really know what was going on or how to handle it.

56:28And I just knew that this would knock me out for a few hours. So that's like what I would do in order to get sleep. I can say now today, honestly, like, I mean, I think this is something that I will probably struggle with. Stress, anxiety, you know, but this is stuff that we go through as humans. but routine like getting this heart breakfast gig which i remember thinking i'm not doing that long term like oh my gosh it's early mornings like not for me gotta go to bed early not cool yes you know but the structure the stability and the routine has been a game changer and i've been able to teach my body to have that sort of rhythm.

57:16But that's taken, you know, time. And I still, you know, still don't have, I still don't have like the perfect relationship with sleep. Yes. Where I had a sort of a belief system that I might not be mentally stable if I keep not sleeping throughout the night, which again, with the upbringing that I had and what I'd seen that I That was a concern of mine. Yes, yes. So with the Xanax in particular, I've noticed an enormous number of celebrities consuming Xanax. I mean, my gosh, we were talking about, oh my gosh, Aaron Carter. Yeah, I know, bless him. From reading the autopsy reports, it was he took Xanax and then drowned as a result of that.

58:06So this Xanax is something that is prevalent. 20 % of people who have an anxiety disorder also have a substance use disorder. Interesting. Well, they're trying to calm down that anxiety because, I mean, for me, like before I go to bed, it was like heart pounding stress. Like I was and I was jacked up. Like I felt like the only way I was going to be able to calm down was to take something to relieve that. But I also feel like through a lot of my practices, these breath exercises I've been doing, being able to calm my nervous system down, calm down my brain a bit, and then have that practice and that routine every night.

58:52I'm like, I trust myself now that I'll be able to sleep. And also, if I do wake up in the night, I'm not going to, I trust now that I'm not going to lose my mind, that I'll be all right. I'll get through it. I might be a little tired, but I'll be all right. When did you first discover breathwork? Yeah, so I was living in Notting Hill years ago. I'm just feeling a bit lost, a bit like, what's next? I'm not quite sure, you know, far away from home. Is this where I want to live? Just sort of all these questions. and I saw this retreat that was available in Bali. It's very like eat, pray, love of me.

59:31Yes. I was like, you know what? It was very expensive. And I was like, I'm going to, I'm just going to invest into this because who knows? First of all, I get to go on an adventure and maybe I'll find some tools that can help me. I didn't know breathwork was going to be a part of this retreat. I knew this guy, Mastin Kipp, who had worked with Oprah a few times, was going to be there. and he was going to be speaking. So I was like, okay, he seems like he's got, like, a great understanding about life. He might be somebody to help me. I'm going to go. So in between his talks, he'd be like, we're going to be doing this breath work stuff in between.

1:00:07It's called Kundalini. It's like yoga and movement and using your breath. And I was like, cool. Sounds great. I'll try it. And so I tried it. I remember thinking, like, whoa, like this. This is cool. I just felt so relaxed. And I mean, on top of also being in this gorgeous place, and digital detox as well, the combination of all of it. But I walked away being like, actually, out of all of that, I want to continue doing this. And that was probably about 10 years ago. Okay. So what were you doing specifically? So I'd sit down like we are right now, speak about maybe what's been going on in life, like certain subjects that might have come up, sort of maybe, I guess, like you would do in a therapy session.

1:00:50But just speaking about life. And then, okay, we're going to start the session. And it's called a Kriya, which is a sequence of exercises that you do, really. And I would do that for about an hour, 45 minutes to an hour, and feel phenomenal afterwards. But in the midst of writing this book and understanding, like, the science behind it and everything, I'm like, oh, this is really doing stuff. Like, this is activating parts of my nervous system that I need to activate, which is the parasympathetic, mostly for me, part of the nervous system, which is the rest and digest, the calm, you're safe, we're all right.

1:01:31So when I'm doing these practices, you know, at the end, that's how I feel. We are all throughout the day, we're in a state where you talk about serotonin levels, which is really what chills us. But we have cortisol levels, which elevate our stress, et cetera. But all day, our cortisol is being elevated. We're being more stressed and stressed and stressed. We're not regulated, which is in this calm state. And then we were making decisions in that heightened state. And when I do all my research around regulation, what everyone always says is, well, the best way to regulate is get with someone. Someone, a partner, a close friend, someone who you have an emotional connection to, and they are the best to help you to regulate.

1:02:25But the reason why your book is so important is because we don't often have that person accessible. This is it. Right? Yeah. We have to be able to self-regulate, right? This is a critical life skill. So I feel like your book is teaching us this incredible skill that we all need to know. I think the biggest compliment is when your community reflects back to you, like, there's shifts going on here with you. You know, like, the way that you maybe would have reacted to that in the past, you've shown up differently. Maybe something that would have, like, stretched you out and taken you down a spiral.

1:03:02The bounce back is quicker. Like, you know, what you're doing, like, is working. And I'm like, yeah, it is. Like, I am starting to show up differently in the world. So the world I'm existing in is showing up differently. What is a technique, like a quick breath work technique that you can teach everyone now? Well, there's, I mean, God, I love so many of them. Honestly, like, the, okay, so I think it's good because I don't know who all is listening. There could be people that have done breath work, and so there's more advanced ones that I love very much. But I think if we start sort of... Give us the basic.

1:03:42That's what I'm saying. Level one. Yeah. So the 4-7-8 is really easy, and it's something that you can probably just even look up online, where you take an inhale through the nose slowly for four counts, and then you hold the breath for seven, and then you exhale slowly out of the mouth. Yeah, for eight. So you You can do that for, I mean, if 30 minutes, go up to two minutes if you can, go even longer if you can, to really start to feel that shift. That's quite just simple and easy. The box breath is also really simple and easy where you inhale for four, hold the breath for four, exhale for four.

1:04:16The physiological sigh. Kit, Kit, Kit, can I give you full disclosure? What? I do the box breath. Yeah? Before every commitment ceremony on Mary at first sight. Do you really? I do the four, four, four, four, yeah. Every commitment ceremony. Yeah. And it was taught to me by a friend. So I have a friend who is, she's a psychologist, and she works with, literally she works with psychopaths in prisons. and she told me that the most effective technique to regulate these individuals, they're human beings, you know, these humans, before she's able to treat them in prison is to do the box breath. And that does it.

1:05:11I mean, it's one of these, I feel like this is a cheat code. Yeah. Like breath work is a cheat code that people are now just beginning to talk about. Yeah. So how, like with the box breath, I'm curious, like how long do you do that for? So I was going to ask you this exact question is how long should I do it? So I do four box breaths. Yeah. So I try, but you know, it's interesting. It's always time dependent. Yeah. And I'll be also transparent is I'm very aware that I don't want anyone to see me doing it. Yeah. I know. I'm sometimes at work like. Yeah. Second to hear of it. Yeah, yeah. I walk around the streets of London sometimes doing the curled tongue one.

1:05:54I'm like, and I'm like, people are probably thinking, I'm just sticking my tongue out at people. Yes. Yeah, yeah. I was thinking, have you ever tried the alternate nostril breathing? No, no. Tell me about this. So this is really good for balancing the brain hemispheres and also calming the nervous system, calming yourself. Okay. And I thought that'd be an interesting one to try. Let's do it. Okay. Let's do it. So you start with your right thumb, and you would close the right nostril, take an inhale through the left. Then you block the left nostril. Oh, no, I don't want to do that, actually. And then you exhale, and then you inhale through the right.

1:06:32Close, and then exhale, and then inhale. Close. Yeah, long, slow, and deep, and go to your own rhythm. I see. But can you already start? You know, it's interesting. I do, you know, I will say I feel leveled. Is that how you're supposed to feel? I think it's so it's the different sides are sort of like balancing the different brain hemispheres. And so I would do that one. I mean, for me, I like to do three minutes. But I think if you're just starting, maybe start at 30 seconds and then build up to two minutes. and build up more as you go along. Okay. But for me, I love that one. And you go at your own breath.

1:07:15So, like, if you exhale longer or inhale longer, but you just want to get slow and nice and deep. Yes. Yes. And then afterward, yeah, you should feel a bit calmer. Did you do breath work before you walked in? I did. Well, I was doing it at work this morning. I was doing it last night because I was nervous about this conversation. So I was using it to try and help regulate myself a little bit. But, you know, it's something that I'm really passionate about. And I feel like if it's helped me, it possibly can really help others. So your book, in essence, is like this master class of breathwork. So my book is personal stories about myself to help the reader as well as to understand the human connection of like what has gone on in my life and what they might be able to relate to as well.

1:08:14Because we've all gone through hardships and struggles and stuff. And then it's a bit of the science behind breathwork, how I found it. And then each chapter, I have a few breath exercises for you to try. All right. I love it. I love it. So on that note, I have another surprise for you. Okay. I have a surprise for you. This is someone who read the book. Who? They read the book, and here's what they thought about the book. You ready? Ready? Ready for this? Yeah.

1:08:50Hi, Heidi. I'm going to try to get through this without being too emotional. but as you can see I already am. I want to start off with saying how much I love you and how proud I am of you. This is a beautiful book and I know it wasn't easy talking about things that you've always kept private and personal. Some stuff in the book that I didn't know about and it pulls at my heart. But you've done a beautiful job. And breathing works. I've been doing it myself. And it's going to help a lot of people. So I just wanted to tell you how proud I am of you and how much I love you. And I hope the book is an amazing success.

1:09:40Love you, honey. Isn't she the cutest? Oh my gosh. Also, I love that she's got the album behind her.

1:09:53yeah gosh you know I this like I knew this book would be a bit confronting for her and I but also it's been very healing because we've been having conversations about stuff that we probably wouldn't have had conversations about and yeah I mean she's she's the one that that matters the most. Mama P, we call her. Mama P. You see the P. There's a P on the necklace. Yeah, she's representing. Everyone loves a P on the necklace, right? But I thought that was beautiful. Oh, yeah. Can we talk about relationships? Okay. Can we talk about relationships? Because the assumption probably is, oh, look at her.

1:10:45You know, she's good looking. She has that blonde hair. Right. Relationships have been easy for her. She's a pop star. Right. She's a celebrity. Right. Relationships have been easy. I'm sure that is the assumption. But from what I've read, I've researched, what I am assuming is it has not been. It's been. Well, I've had, you know, I've sampled a lot of different flavors. spicy, salty, sweet. Like, you know, I think, I think also, and I don't know if this comes down to also the way I was in my, with, with my, with my upbringing, but relationships also weren't the forefront of what I was really desiring.

1:11:35I really had ambition to, you know, go out there, have a career. I didn't really have like any proper boyfriends in high school. It wasn't until I got into my 20s that I ended up having like my first proper relationship. And, you know, we were young. So lots of things were playing out then, you know, and I was in the dolls at that time I was traveling all around the world so um but I think I have had this sort of avoidant let's say like push away in a sense as well um where I was always like okay I'll probably walk away from this though you know like this isn't gonna last interesting kind of thing or I would choose partners that were quite fiery, which was, you know, I was, at that time, the rouge flags were flying all over the place and I was like, well, no, but this feels exciting.

1:12:43Like, you know, this is like, this is passionate and all of those things and then the dynamics within the relationship were not healthy. Yes, and even for us to spend a second on this, you know, this is my topic right here. I know it is. Is that what you're saying is precisely what happens when someone has an avoidant attachment style, right? They end up with these relationships with people who either they just quickly dismiss or they're fiery. They perceive them to be hyper-masculine, right? Now, do you know why that is? I mean I think that what's familiar as love is what you sort of recreate and a bit of chaos a bit of um I mean there was some dynamics within my my my childhood of being of feeling guilty so that would play out as well so i think it was what was familiar to me okay so it typically it ends up being one of two types of family setups in particular for uh little girls one is if they have had an authoritarian parent a parent that was you know ruled like they were a dictator of a country, right?

1:14:12And that becomes familiar so that when they become older, they're seeking someone to rule over them like their parent ruled over them, right? So there's an authoritarian role. The other, much more prevalent from a disorganized attachment or avoidant attacking style, same thing, is a parent that you were not emotionally connected to, that you sought connection with that parent or those parents, and they were never able to deliver love in the way that you needed it. And as a result, you had to rely on yourself. And as you rely on yourself more and more and more, you realize that what you were missing, You could handle everything in life, but what you're missing is emotional safety.

1:15:07And you begin to believe that emotional safety and stability comes from something ultra fiery, ultra strong. That's going to give you that safety. And many avoidance end up in these relationships with people who can become very dangerous towards them. So it's typically one of those two. It feels like you were more of this latter category and those early relationships with those men were your attempt at having something stable in your life. But were those early relationships stable for you? The early one was, I mean, again, we were just young and you've got, you know, all those chemicals and going off and all that stuff.

1:15:58I think more like the fiery stuff happened after that. Because after I left that relationship, I was like, I'm good. I don't really need to do this whole relationship thing. Again, just like I can take care of myself mentality that you're sort of speaking about. I'm safer, I think, also within just myself, right? Okay. But then when I came into relationships probably a bit more in my adult life, that's when I feel like, yeah, those kinds of men were more prominent, the ones I was choosing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and those were tough ones, you know, to get on the other side of because there's a sense of wanting to, which is an interesting thing because I feel like I'm quite strong when it comes to relationships.

1:16:57but I felt I lost my sort of voice within it at times and then had to sort of relearn like what I believe is good for myself. There's a bit of controlling and kind of, you know, manipulative kind of stuff going on. But again, like going back to these practices and showing up and being consistent, like the relationship I'm in now is the healthiest one that you ever I've ever had yeah here is my biggest question around your current partner okay is when was the moment that you felt for the first time you felt fully safe with him you know it was quite early in the beginning which is funny enough because I was very sort of, I was pushing back on it being a relationship.

1:17:59He's a bit younger than me. And I was like, you know, this is fun. But like, you know, he was just like, no, I really like you. And I was like, yeah, okay, but it's a bit of fun. And then again, like over time, there was a few things in the beginning, just the answers that were coming back at me from this human, the emotional intelligence, the kindness, like, I was like, wait a minute, like, I don't, I don't, I want to continue getting to know you as, as a person anyways, because first of all, I feel, I feel like calm around you. And also I like your reactions to things. Like I like how you're responding to stuff in life.

1:18:45and I'm digging that. Yes. And, you know, he's just been such a light and such a gift and a rock. And a rock. A rock. And to that point of checking in, this is the one part of dating that I think is undervalued most and that is how do you physically feel with a person. Yeah. And I always say that, and this is why I think your book is so important, is that that state of regulation is everything. And not just partner, friendships as well, like people that you spend your time with. Exactly. Yeah. And our body never lies. Yeah. And oftentimes what I've noticed is, and I'm sure you know this too because you're so in tune with your body, is that you will literally talk to someone and your body will, you'll feel like maybe a stomach cramp where you'll feel stress, the cortisol go up, stress levels go up a little bit.

1:19:46Your body is telling you, get away from this person. It's a threat response. So with a partner, what I often say is not what did they say, not what did they do, but how did you feel. Yeah, and that's it, right? That is it. And if you feel safe. I feel safe, I feel seen, I feel respected. Yes. I feel looked after in a way that I haven't had in the past. And I'm just going to say yes. Because at the end of the day, it's really the human, right? Like, I've dated guys my own age, and they didn't have that emotional intelligence going on. Now, can I talk about the age difference? You should. Okay, so you said it's a little bit.

1:20:38Yeah. All right. It's 17 years. Yeah. All right. So he's 17 years younger than you. Yeah. He's 27 now and I'm 43. Okay. All right. All right. So does that factor in to the relationship at all?

1:20:59No, I think that I keep sort of looking for it in a sense. It's like, oh, when's it going to show up? You know, I mean, and maybe there's different, like, bits of pop culture or stuff that, like, we didn't have because we weren't, like, going through the same moments. Yes. But as far as, like, guys that I've dated and he shows up the most maturely, like, it surprises me, I think, even on a daily basis. Look at that. Yeah. Look at that. Now, we know that there's a massive double standard in society around age difference relationships, whereas men can have a partner in a heterosexual relationship, can have a partner who's 17 years younger and he's not ostracized, he's not shamed.

1:21:55Probably no one even looks twice when he's walking down the street. Do you feel the double standard? Do you feel any of that pressure being the woman being the older person in the relationship? Well, I was more nervous about the news coming out than he was because of that, because I felt like I was going to be really judged. And I was judging myself as well, because I was like, you know, again, like I said, I thought it was going to be a bit of fun in the beginning and I was all right with that. But then like, oh, this turning into something like you being my partner is a whole different ballgame.

1:22:30and I was really nervous and actually interestingly enough I mean I've gotten quite a nice response um but like you said if it was a if I was male I probably wouldn't even have thought twice about being insecure about this news coming out um but I'm at a point now in my life where I'm like this person standing next to me makes me feel safe and sane and heard and understood and that means more than what if someone else has like a funky opinion about it yes yes uh now your partner is from the uk yeah he's northern he's nor he's a he's a northern boy i'm telling the north wins i know the nice people the nice people why why is it is it is the north i just feel like what is everyone just more charming in the north you know it's even like when i was with his family it's like you just sit down and everybody's having a chat it's just nice vibes it's like i don't know it's just they've got like something something in the bones maybe something in the water up there i I don't know.

1:23:40Something in the tea. Yeah, the tea. It's the tea. The tea is stronger up there. That's what it is. I have a final question for you. Another surprise? And I do have one final surprise. You're joking. Yeah, I do. Do you want the final question or the final surprise? Let's do question and then surprise. All right, let's do that. Okay. So final question is a question that everyone gets. Oh, gosh, okay. And that is if you think back through all of the amazing conversations you've had throughout your life. Yeah. Which one stands out as the most memorable? Who was it with, and what did you learn? I hear two in my head.

1:24:24I'm going to go with, well, my dad. He said, because while I got into the dolls, and obviously he had had a bit of his rock and roll background, right? And he was like, this train won't last forever, so enjoy the ride. and I was trying to remember that amongst all the chaos. But it was amazing to have that connection with him and I hold that very dearly to my heart, you know, because I know that, again, he had a tragic ending, but he brought a lot of color to the life that he did have. Yes, yes, I can see it. You know, it is poetic and profound that you would end on that story. Because here's the final surprise.

1:25:13You ready? I don't know. All right. I want you to close your eyes. Oh, close my eyes. Close your eyes. Okay. And I want you to look at this. This is the final surprise. Look at this. Oh, fosh. I called him fosh. Nail. You know why I thought it was germane to end on this note? Is because what I didn't realize is that your story is your father. Yeah. And I didn't realize how integral he is, still is, to your life. Yeah. And I think that being a parent, there's a, you know, as a parent, the first thing that I thought about, and this sounds bizarre to some people, when my children were born, was my mortality.

1:26:09I immediately thought about, well, you know what? I need to be alive long enough so that they can survive on their own. Yeah. And I can essentially pass the torch to them. And this is a torch that's been burning through the entire history of our family, right? And what I realize is that your father remained on this earth long enough to pass you the torch. He did. Yeah. And honestly, this photo, like, so his favorite place in the entire world was Huntington Beach. And this is on the beach with him and him being his goofy self. So, like, those are the memories that I hold so closely to my heart as us being silly and ridiculous and being by the by Huntington Beach.

1:27:01There you go. There you go. And you have this torch now. Yeah. And I think what's also incredible for you is that you think, oh, my gosh. Well, you might not think this, but I think people may think this. She was a part of one of the biggest groups of all time. Right. Think of how large the torch was at that time. But I believe that your torch has just begun to become brighter. And it's going to become so bright you won't even be able to stare at it. I guarantee it. I think this new phase of your life is an incredibly important phase of your life. Not only are you shifting into a new woman, you're an author, but you are more stable than you ever have been here and here.

1:27:47In your heart. So my hope is that you maintain that stability. And with that stability, you are going to go places that you never dreamt of. Thank you. Yeah, you will. I hope so. You will. That means a lot. Thank you. You will. And, you know, one last thing I will say. Okay. From me talking to you, my observation is that I don't want you to be as hard on yourself. Oof. As you are. Because you are incredibly hard on yourself, Ashley. That's what my mom always says.

1:28:28You got that just from this conversation? I got this just from this conversation. You know, I think that you have to give yourself grace. And you have to understand how far you've come. And what you have gone through. and where you are going, and give yourself grace.

1:28:54Thank you.

1:28:59That's literally what my mom always says to me, so. Ooh, child.

1:29:09Daddy, fan me off. Thank you, that was kind of you. This has been challenging. Because like you said, I just want to handle all of these subjects with grace. Yes. And, you know, a lot of the stories that come out end up being about the dolls or about, you know, relationships and all that. And I know that's important to talk about. But like what's more important for me is that I want to connect with people and like and then possibly help them. I keep repeating myself. But but but that's but that's what's going to that's exactly what's going to happen. I think this is this is the phase of your life.

1:29:55And I can see what it feels like to me is that you're out here trying to create your own identity. separate from this juggernaut that you were a part of, but to stand on your own two legs. And one thing I think that's important for you to know about me is that, remember, when I met you, I didn't know that you were a part of that juggernaut, and I loved you for you. Every time I'd walk into Global, I'd say, Oh, I hope I see Ashley. Oh, stop, really? Seriously, I would hit that floor. I'd be excited when I knew you were coming in as well. Yeah. I hope I see her. It was the brightness in your smile and that we always talked about something of depth and of meaning.

1:30:41Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I think this is what you will be known for. That's what I just talked about. Really? Yes. Whew. Yes. Yeah, I feel like I'm still like that there might be a bigger purpose for me beyond what has existed. And I feel like I'm stepping into that and that scared me a little bit, but also exciting me a little bit. Yes. So I've got a mixture of things going on. Well, I'm so excited to see what the next chapter unveils for you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Woo, let's take a breath. That's a good one. Yeah, yeah. And on a breath. And on a breath. Yes, yes, yes. What I find really interesting with a guest is when you just allow them to talk, listen closely as to where they spend the most time.

1:31:44She spent the most time in references to her father in this entire conversation. And that lets you know typically who we value and love to a high degree. What is clear is Ashley is very respectful of this iconic group that she was a part of. So she doesn't want to say anything that will catch a headline because clearly if she says anything that's left, right, or indifferent, it's going to catch a headline around the Pussycat Dolls. But one thing that is obvious watching this conversation is that there was a lot of tension in that group around the structure of the group, as she talked about, and around her not being able to do all of the things that she wanted to do, you know, expression or freedom of expression.

1:32:38What's beautiful about where Ashley is now is that she is in what feels like the most stable part of her life, where she does have a partner who she feels safe with, and that can change your life, right? Where secondly is she talked about that schedule, which is very important in her work that allows her to have more control over her sleep, which is everything. And now she has these tools through breath work. ultimately that's, that's all we can ask for, you know, and that's, that's what so many of us strive to have. So it's so beautiful to see that she has that now.