EXCLUSIVE: Karen Hauer Breaks Silence On Marriage “I Was Bankrolling Everything...I Wish Someone Had Forced Me Out!"

28:20I felt that he distanced himself from me, but I was probably doing the same. Because I felt if you didn't want me, then okay, I'll retreat. I'll give you your space. It was one of those that we're both not talking about it. So I'm like, do you want a divorce? Do you want to split up? I don't know what I want to do. What do you want to do? Do you know what you want? I don't know what I want. Okay, so are we broken up? So it took a while, actually. It took about a year. Behind the scenes. In front of the scenes, everything was normal. So you were pretending. Yeah. So you were still on the show together, pretending.

29:03Yeah, yeah. We fell apart. And me not knowing, obviously, I didn't know what was happening in his mind, whether he wanted to be with me or not, or I knew that I would have worked on it. I would have stayed.

29:27But at the same time, I couldn't be with someone who wasn't sure of whether they wanted to be with me or not. I couldn't just wait. I waited for a while. And I was giving him his space to think. And then, funny enough, I met someone.

29:50And, you know, we weren't together. But we were together in the public eye. Wow. Makes it even more complicated. So when you meet someone, and it wasn't someone that I dated or something, it just happened to be someone that I just saw a couple of times, and I got snapped up. Oh. And then all of a sudden, I was just walking with this person, and then all of a sudden, you know, I'm portrayed as someone that I have cheated on him. And then obviously he saw the pictures and was like, what? So there was a big misunderstanding. and all of that, because I wasn't actually... I was literally waiting to be loved.

30:33So when that incident happened, what was the conversation that you and your ex had? He just wanted a divorce.

30:45But I... And I... I didn't find it.

30:52Because I was already... it's almost like, and this is probably not the thing at all, but in my mind it's almost like something had to happen in order for him to make a decision. Right. Because I wasn't going to make the decision. I wasn't going to pull the plug. So then I tripped and then the grenade went off. You know, I pulled the pin. Yeah. I see a parallel between this moment in your first marriage, because in your first marriage, you said that your partner at that time was in essence saying, tell me what you want me to do, I'll do it. In this marriage, I feel like you in essence were saying, just tell me what you want me to do and I'll do it.

31:42Is that the case? Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I think there was a lot of confusion and his going on with him as well. We were both in a very tough place. It was tough for him, tough for me. It was tough for both of us at that moment. Because I could see he didn't want to let go. But that didn't give him any choice. He had to do the right thing for himself. But why is that? I think that the way that he grew up, you know they expect they they cared a lot about what people thought so if he didn't make the correct decision and decided to come with me that I would look back on his family I think you know and I you know they were very much about what people think about them and in which I didn't care.

32:44This is my life. I, you don't pay my bills. You didn't put me through dance school. You didn't do anything for me, for my career. I built myself and I'm with this man. So, yeah, he didn't even want to talk about it. And again, I respected that. And that's fine. At least I was getting an answer. And at least I could bow down and go, okay, I understand. Yeah. Fine. How did you two continue to work together given the fact that you divorced? The respect we had for each other in the workplace. We respected one another. You know, I've never said any, we never said any bad word about one another. you know I think that's because we hold each other to such a high regard you know there is there is there will always be love there okay so we still danced together on the show and we were still working around each other we would still applaud each other support each other um we never lost that and that was what was really sad that we couldn't transfer that onto our relationship yeah I find that incredible because I think there's so many people who are in a work environment.

34:11They'll break up with their partner. You know, they'll have a romantic relationship. They'll break up and they can no longer work at all. They can't even look in that person's direction. But here you two can still dance together. That's incredible. Yeah. It was tough at times as well when you had to do – there's one number that we did. and it was right before we broke up and it was for Remembrance Day and he was playing a soldier and I was taking the jacket off at the table and dancing with it and then at the end and I mean throughout the dance he comes back and dances with me and goes in and out of my life until I again finish dancing with with the jacket and placing it back on the table and it was literally I had lost him and it was the end and I remember when we finished that we looked at each other and this was you know we record this in front of an audience as well so they only give you like one or two takes so you have to get it right that sentiment and and the sentiment it wasn't hard to get into that story because I was experiencing it because I was losing him you know it's it's so profound to think what is going on in your mind while you're performing yeah you know what you're either allowing or blocking out i use a lot of my experiences to pull out the emotion you know and a lot of the experiences are from my love life from my life, from everything.

35:55And that's what makes me open up, it cracks me up. It makes me more vulnerable for my audience. I find it healing in a way because it stops hurting as much. Yes. It stops. The wound starts creating a scar and then it becomes skin and it softens. The softens. Yeah, fair enough. You know, one other point about the dancing, right, is I now, so I often hear about the Strictly curse, right? But one thing that I find very, very interesting, so I had to go back and I looked at from the beginning of, since the beginning, Strictly began, was it 2004? Yeah, probably. So from the beginning of Strictly through to this day, I have tracked 18 people, 18 who have changed their relationship.

37:05As a result, you can tie it back to their time on Strictly. Okay. You can even technically put your ex in that category. Okay. What is your take on the Strictly curse?

37:25It is a very close proximity. You're, you know, in detail, being very gentle with someone else, you know, and understanding them, listening to them. I want to know how you learn. You know, a lot of people get to be in that moment with someone that's actually going, you know me. Yes. I have to know you because I need you to be your true self. I need you to open your mind so we can, I need to learn how you learn so I can teach you better. I need to learn everything that you do, any things that you like that you don't like, things that you feel comfortable with that you don't feel comfortable with.

38:18So you're literally learning about this person inside out. Yes, which is an emotional connection. And it's the deepest level of emotional connection. And then, you know, you confuse things at times, I think. I think sometimes when you're moving sexy around someone, you know, it's movement. If I'm moving my hips from right to left, it's pendulum action. I'm not actually trying to be sexy with you. This is just the rhythm of my body that I'm creating. So whether you fall in love with the movement, seeing someone move so sexy. And obviously, you know, if there's problems at home, if there's, you know, you feel down.

39:05But when I come to you and I make you feel happy, it's all in a bubble. This is all make-believe. I am teaching you at the end of the day. Yes. This is for a show. This is acting. This is movement. This is a performance. So whether two people take that in a completely different way, and there's attractions. I mean I've not experienced that I take my job I close everything up whether you're really good looking I don't see your physique I see your brain how I'm gonna teach you how to dance and then also when you start like learning about someone you start getting to know someone you're like absolutely not I would never I would never never you know what because when you see someone They're like, oh, they're so good looking.

40:00And I'm like, no, this is different. But it happens. Because, and you know what? It happens everywhere. And that's fine. But obviously, because it's such a massive show, it's become so ingrained in everyone's brain. Well, you're dancing with that one. Well, be careful. But you know what? And it's part of being human. It's part of life. You know? The attraction. and um but as long as it doesn't hurt anybody and that's what's hard you know because you don't hear about this when it happens in you know in somebody else's company exactly but when it happens on our show i think you've just hit the the trifecta of why it does happen.

40:52And that is, as you talked about, the emotional connection that's formed, which typically doesn't fully form in relationships, right? There's always a lower level of emotional connection, but in order to dance with someone, you need to have that deep, deep emotional connection. So that's one. Secondly is the physicality that you're talking about. Just the physical proximity, the whole law of proximity and propinquity, that physicality being up close and experiencing new things together, I think drives people together. But then the third is the fact that you're under this pressure bubble together.

41:32So in essence, your partner is your only safe space or could be one of your few safe spaces where you can go to. Um, and I think that that trifecta, oh my goodness, it is, it's something else. Yeah. Yeah. Am I not? It's something else. But you, I mean, you are the longest serving professional on Strictly, right? History, right? This year will be 14 years, correct? So what keeps you coming back?

42:08Every time it feels like a new year, like the first year. Wow, does it? 100%. because, again, there's so many curveballs that can be thrown at you, but you're prepared for that. You know what you're getting on a roller coaster. You know what this roller coaster is going to go. I'm strapped in. I'm going in. But I just love seeing people transform.

42:35And it could be that much, but that for me is massive. Yes. Getting someone that absolutely had no idea. You know, there are people that come in with dance experience. You still have to take them at a completely different level, you know. But it's the people that start at nothing that you're like, all right, that's the challenge. That's why I keep coming back. And then when we go out there, it's the unexpected. Like, how thrilling is that? And I'm like, I have no idea what you're about to do. And 10 million people are watching us. And you might go wrong, but I'm going to hang them right here for you.

43:14You know how powerful that is? Well, so that gives you a thrill. That is thrilling when you go, I have no idea what you're about to do because I can see it in your eyes. You have no idea what comes next. But it's thrilling. But you know what? It's when they do something wrong and then you pull them out. It's like pulling them out of the water and then you carry on. And then they go back into it. Okay. I love when they make a mistake. Not in a bad way, but it's almost like because nothing bad happens. The good thing of it is how you picked yourself back up. And you continued and you smiled. Yes.

43:54And you enjoyed it and it was thrilling. Once you get a 10, you ain't going to go anywhere else other than to get a 10. Then people are going to get bored of you. Yes. But you have to maintain perfection. I love imperfection. Yeah. I can see it. I'm excited about it. Yeah, you'd be doing this if it was not on. Oh, baby. I love it. I love it. And that's why I keep coming back. How competitive is it truly? You have to be. You have to have that hunger. You know, I danced with my previous partner, Paul Merson, and he used to call me Pep. Pep Guardiola. Oh, yeah, Pep. Yeah, yeah. I know why. I know why.

44:34But because I love to train and I love to coach and I'm competitive in getting you on that dance floor ready. that's where my competition lies not against all the other couples because again there it's an uneven field not everyone not everybody starts in the same no there's a couple of people that count dance and there's a couple of people that can yes so how do you compare the two you know so i can only focus on the person that i have in front of me and what we can do together is is there a way and have there ever been people who play dirty because you know you could skirt the rules if you want to you know the people that wouldn't say dirty but i would say that they complain about i'm like oh stop complaining you know it is what it is it's a show it's a show it is you don't talk back to the judges they're doing their job right they're doing their job listen don't get me wrong there's times that i'm like would you just say that to me don't keep it in karen don't let the new yorker out just smile Just smile.

45:35But it's a show. It's entertainment. Don't take anything personally. Don't take it personal. Because then that's when it starts hurting. And that's when you become even more competitive and not in a good way. And then that's when the lights dim, everything becomes a bit like, because you start taking things personal. Yeah, yeah. But come on. You don't ever allow the New York to come out a little bit and give them a little taste? Oh, no. Why not? Oh, because it's not good. How do you think I got divorced three times?

46:10Oh, she wild. No. You're going to say, no, no, no, no. No, papi, no. Esa no sale. And that's Spanish, too. You can give it to her multiple languages. That's even worse when I start talking to you in Spanish. Oh, forget about it. Okay. All right. Fair. Fair. All right. So what about, because, you know, I think what everyone loves is the inside. Like, what do you think is something that most people don't know about the show, about Strictly, that they would find interesting? Oh.

46:48What obviously is not shown is when you're in training and the breakdowns, emotional breakdowns. Hmm. And we all have them. And that's fine. It's natural because of the pressure and because there is not a lot of time. And how we pick up the pieces for these guys, these celebs, and even for us as professionals. Because nobody knows what's happening outside. You know, going through a divorce while you're trying to push someone and taking a couple of minutes to go into the bathroom to cry, to get it over with, to let it out, and then coming back in and freshen up and continue to teach. We have our moments that we go, I don't know if I can do this, and then you continue.

47:48And would people find that? They'd probably be like, stop. But it is, that is the toughest. Nobody knows anything about me. And that's fine. And that's fine. You know? But they think they know, oh, she's the lady with the dogs that dances. Yes. And gets married a lot. And has different hairstyles. You know? No, it's interesting. That's what you feel like the perception is of you. Yeah. So there's a balance. And it's hard. It's hard for the producers and for everything to balance the show out. Yes. But that's the beauty of it and why it's so successful. Because they've created such a beautiful balance of struggle, of happiness, of, oh, I don't know if I'm going to get through.

48:34Oh, but you are getting through. Oh, my God, you made the final. Oh, my God, you're leaving the show now. But it's part of our life. Yes, yes. And they've created that beautiful roller coaster that people, that's why people tune in. I was talking with your show sponsor Tinder and they wanted to know if you've ever been on a date that ended up in an unexpected way. Do you have anything like that? Oh, absolutely. Endless, endless stories. I mean, one in particular is that when Jill and I were dating, we went to a slam poetry competition, which I will say I knew nothing about slam poetry. And that's when I learned that you snap your fingers, right?

49:09When you applaud. I specifically went there because I wanted to impress Jill so that I can get a little, I'll say bonus afterwards, you know. But what I learned through one of the poets is that we are all artists. The poet specifically said we are all artists. And that triggered something in me. It made me click to the point where I realized that I wanted to create. I wanted to figure out how to do that. So afterwards, we went out to eat, Jill and I, and we started talking about creating art together. And I learned from that date that, you know, the date isn't just about the other person. It's not about your physical pleasure.

49:45It's not about their physical pleasure. It's about what you can learn about life, about yourself. It was an unexpected outcome from a date. So wherever a date may lead, it starts with a swipe. That's why you need to download Tinder.

50:04Are you ready? That's probably too much. Let me see. How about everyone? Everyone. Everyone. Oh, my God. Sheffield. Sheff. Scott, how do you say this? Is it Sheffield? Sheff. Sheffield. Sheffield. At least this isn't live, right? Well, no, but that's about to change, isn't it? So we are going to do We Need to Talk live for the first time. The magic is in the conversation, so we'll have a very special guest. You know what's probably most cool about this is this will be the first time that the We Need to Talk community will come together in person. You know, I'm curious to see what does everyone look like?

50:46What do they smell like? Sheffield, July 5th at the Crucible Theater. So to get tickets, very simple. It's crossedwires.live. It's very important to buy tickets quickly because they will go fast. We'll make sure that there's a link below.

51:07so because we haven't seen your roller coaster when you think about the the flow and the app right what was the the lowest moment for you on the show i think uh probably in the last couple years. And you could see it because I was changing. I cut my hair off. I didn't want anybody to see me as I was. I was changing. I was like a chameleon. I just wanted to blend in. But I was sticking out like a sore thumb because I was, you know, with bleach blonde hair like just tight or like with a mohawk i didn't know what i wanted to be i just didn't want to be seen okay okay if if if you're willing can we talk about what has happened in the last few years of your life to make you want to not be seen i got myself into a relationship that I shouldn't have.

52:21Can we step by step go through this? So, when you were divorced for a second time, do you feel any of that weight on you? Yeah. Yeah, I felt shame. I felt embarrassed. that I couldn't keep anyone around me. And I said to myself, no, I'm not going to get into a relationship. Uh-uh. No. Spend some time on your own. But I don't know how to be on my own. And that's so dangerous. And what's even more dangerous is when you go on social media and then people are sending you messages and sliding into your DMs. And, you know, they look like they look the part. They say the right things. Right. This particular person, right, that we're referring to, from what I understand, this person messages you first.

53:32And in essence, the sentiment is what? Is it checking in to see, are you available? Like what's the? No, it was a, hey, you know, I'd love to take you out kind of thing. And then I was like, all right, cool. Like, why don't you? And then it was, it just kind of snowballed from there. Interesting. So did the conversation continue? Continue. Messages? Messages. Okay. Messages back and forth. Then it went to like video messages and then funny things. and then FaceTime messages. And that was for about a month. And how did you feel? I felt great. I felt like I hit the jackpot. Did you talk to any friends or family?

54:29No, because I knew they would say, no, stop that. And that was also a red flag that I knew that I was being naughty, that I was being cheeky, and that I was doing the wrong thing. I agree. This is an innate flag. That is, if we are covering something up innately, we know it's wrong. So you buy a ticket for him to fly in. So he flies in from another country. Okay. Then that first day together, what's that like? Awkward. you know, you're in my home. You're, you know, you kind of, you're excited. Not what I thought at first. I was like, oh, oh, but you're here now. So I have to make it work. That was my first instinct, like, oh, and then you're excited.

55:27You know, you're like, oh, but, you know, and then you look at the person. Physically, I wasn't overwhelmed. It was, you know, and then I was like, oh, probably just get, probably just, it's just nerves. Red flag. I knew. But why didn't I listen? Why didn't you? I don't know. Because I, I wanted, I don't know what I wanted to prove. What did I want to prove? To who? To myself? because I didn't tell my girlfriends or my family that I had a man flying over to stay with me, possibly live with me. Okay. But when he arrives, though, was the idea it would just be a pop-in, pop-out a few days, or what was the thought?

56:15We didn't have a plan. There's no plan? There's no plan. He was just coming. Okay, you're welcome to my home. Wow. He's now your home as well. Okay. And then from there, he just took over. I had pictures of me dancing with someone else around the house. I mean, I am a professional dancer. This is what I do. And he would take them down. Or anything that was like of just me, he took everything down. And he wanted to make the place his as well. Right. So did you both consider yourself what when he arrived? Was it we're seeing each other? Yeah. Okay, we're seeing each other. But I would imagine, though, you paid for the ticket.

57:09So immediately you have to start spending for things together like, okay, we're going to eat tonight. Who's getting the groceries? So when those things start happening, who's paying? Me. Always? Always. All right. But there's no flag. What's the excuse? I'm helping. In my head, I was like, well, of course he doesn't have a job yet. He's, you know, and obviously he didn't come with anything. So I'm helping. and he would say to me, you know, I'm going to get a job soon. I'm going to get a job, but, you know, I'll try to help out as much as I can. But, you know, I work hard for my money and I, you know, was bankrolling everything.

58:02Okay. Was there anything positive happening? I mean, you had companionship. I would imagine that's positive. But was there anything beneficial in your life with him being present? I was just not home alone. But there was nothing that was being integrated. There's nothing that kind of fulfilled me. But nothing, I wasn't, he wasn't providing anything. There was no enhancement in my emotional being or, you know, physical being or in any way. I was just doing, I was going back to work. I was working, I was doing my thing, coming in and out of the house and just letting him settle down. Okay. Okay.

58:48So as he's settling, right, you're introducing him to friends and family. So the initial reaction from friends was what? They weren't excited by him at all. Because to other people, it was like a big no. like no she'll get rid of him quick and i didn't because it just got worse you don't i don't have what you have well yeah but i need to go to work every day yeah but yeah but i never see you but then oh but why are you cheating on me no no i'm not i'm not cheating on you i just like he was accusing accusing me yeah so are you are you cheating no no i'm not cheating on you that i just like that person's um uh instagram post um are you sure you're not sleeping with that person no, no, no.

59:40Can you send me a picture of where you are and who you're with? Yeah, I had to check in everywhere I went. There's people chasing me. You have to leave the house. What? What do you mean I have to leave? What? So I have to leave my house but this is my house. Yeah, you can't be here. And I left. And what's the logic of him saying that people are chasing him? I don't know. obviously whatever he had going on whatever was happening I didn't want to be a part of it so I'd just leave I'd just go away and then I'd come when can I come back home? five days later okay are the dogs okay? yeah they're fine you can come back now okay

1:00:32but the grip that he had on me. It paralyzed me. It's really hard to explain when he proposed to me.

1:00:51I didn't tell anybody. And he would say, why don't you call? I'm like, no, no. I can't. They'll kill me. They'll be disappointed. But, you know, I'm happy, of course, and I wouldn't wear it. Why was I so attached to this feeling of insecurity, of gaslighting to the max? In my previous relationships, there was no such thing as that. There are probably hints of it. Probably. But this was at a different level. It's interesting because I think that there's certain terms that we use nowadays and we misuse them. Yes. But I suspect in this case, this was actual gaslighting or this could be. So what's an example of that?

1:01:50You know, once we got married, we moved. He almost took me away from everything, took me away from my friends. And I was like, okay, great. That's fine. you know let's let's move up you know bigger house you know i can the the rent is lower i can you know i'll travel back and forth um and then it was the text messages that i would get it was the attack of text messages finding myself sorry story.

1:02:37in a situation where I couldn't control, because I was afraid. Karen, did you fear for your life?

1:02:50At times.

1:02:58And I stayed with him. Yeah.

1:03:07It's almost like he had a hold of me.

1:03:13And I just didn't know how to let... I started losing my hair. Panic attacks. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't do my job properly. And I couldn't get away from him. I wasn't allowed to go to places with my friends because he thought that we would talk about him. And I was so battered emotionally that I just didn't care. I mean, I was working most of the time down in London, so I don't really know what else was happening behind my back. I was just in panic mode. All the time. Panic mode. That love should not be panic. It's almost like he made up things to scare me so that I wouldn't go anywhere. But it's okay.

1:04:12I'm just, you know, I just get on with it. I get on with it and I smile because I don't want to cause trouble. I don't want to shake things up because that will put you in a bad mood, which then makes my day really awful. And that's the state I lived in. Constantly. I lived in the... Are you okay? Yeah? Okay, great. He's good. Oh, yeah, I'm just with my friends. Yeah, I got to bed early. No, I didn't. I would lie. So I was not only lying to my family and my friends about where I was mentally and how I was feeling physically, and they were seeing it. But I was lying to him as well. Because that's the only way that I could get through the day.

1:05:00That you can keep it? And that'll keep, you know, peace. While you're on Strictly, you're going through this. Yeah. And so you said you started suffering with alopecia. The way that my body was telling me that there was something wrong with my central nervous system, emotionally, physically, everything was showing. to the point where I, the day of the wedding, my brother came up to me and he was like, we can walk out right now. Walk out with me. My friends, everyone was like trying, trying to stop this from happening. I wish they would have just taken me. I wish.

1:05:54I wish they would have grabbed me and just put me in a car and I would have kicked and screamed. But I wouldn't have gone through more hell.

1:06:07Because he didn't hurt me physically. So you couldn't see it.

1:06:17It was that. digging, digging, digging, punching, punching. Every dig, every text, every call. Why did I let someone do that to me? What's so sad in this is that you had loved ones who wanted to pull you out. Yeah. Right? But as you admitted, you were lying to them. Yeah. So they may not even have known the severity of your circumstance. It may only have been you. What was the most challenging moment for you? I remember I went, there was a weekend that I had to work, but Pink was in concert. Okay. and my two best friends we got tickets and I was able to get away as an excuse as well that I was working down in London so I came down and it was just the weekend and I cried for the first I would say 30 minutes 30-35 minutes of the show the freedom of being out there with my friends and then them holding me up and going you got this you have to do this you have to do this and then obviously getting a call from him and going why did you take your luggage yeah but I was doing it because I'm bringing my dance clothes yeah but you never do that because he was afraid that I was going to leave it's almost like he knew what was coming but I remember that that moment of going is that you have to let go I have to you have to break free yes and I have to do it because if not something's going to happen to me and as he started to suspect that you were trying to break free did you feel the reins tighten almost he became volatile because he started losing control of me and it was game on for him he pulled every every shot he pulled every string he did everything he needed to do to try to get my attention, to try to get me away from what I was doing to go and see him.

1:08:52To see him. So how do you step out of a situation like that? Well, I reached out to some of his family, and they were very supportive. And obviously they told me more that I was unaware of, a lot of the issues that were there that he had lied to me about. But, you know, I always had someone with me. I brought my mom over from New York, so she was with me. Oh, interesting. Okay. And she's a pit bull. So she was ready with her bat. Yeah. And I obviously spoke to him. You know, he was trying everything. I'm going to change. I'm doing this for us. You know, and I just said, I want you to put yourself first.

1:09:41I need to put myself first and I was very serious with him but at the same time I had to be sensitive enough to not push him over the edge and he left the house you know there was repercussions there was things that he was still trying to do with the divorce and with everything made it difficult. But I stood my ground because I knew that what he wanted was me to lose my control, my cool. And I was never, ever going to let him have that. Was there an intervention that happened with your friends and family? Did they? Yeah. Really? Yeah, constantly. But one that worked because I find that interventions can be highly effective.

1:10:42And it's something that I encourage more friends and family to do when we see a loved one drifting away. So what was the effective intervention? It was when I went away with girls. Okay. It was that girls weekend. And it wasn't like, you need to do this. It was they let me talk. Okay. And they allowed me to express myself and they listened to me and they then very, very gently went, we can do this. We have all these options. We can take care of this. You have all this support around you. And that's when I started feeling that I could do it because I felt safe, that I would fall back into safe hands and not just into the abyss on my own.

1:11:28Okay. What else strikes me in this, Karen, is that, you know, when you were telling me about you as a little girl on the roller skates and you have all this turmoil happening in your life, but you were the smiley kids. this is precisely what was happening to you because i would imagine you show up on strictly smiley kids all over again you know and no one could have fathomed this was happening to you behind closed doors no one no but you just put the smile on yeah and you went out there but you said that you, while you wanted to disappear, you felt like you were becoming more visible. Can you speak to that?

1:12:20Yeah. I mean, in a way, I was becoming someone that was bold and that was making drastic decisions. And I was creating a new persona in a way that was still me. I was evolving. which was very strengthening from the inside in a way because I wasn't the perfect girl the long hair the beautiful teeth and the tan you know I cut my hair off and I wanted to rebel I'm who I want to be I don't want to please everybody I used to But now I just want to be... You know, I'm in a new relationship. Okay, okay. I see the smile. You know? I see the smile. And it's my first proper relationship. At 43 years old, he has a job.

1:13:25Tick. Tick. He takes care of himself. Tick. we have conversations about what we want, our values. I'm still a little bit messy, but he, and the thing with me, what I'm navigating right now is learning when to accept when someone's telling me this is the way you should do it and not this is how you do it. Yes. So making sure that I understand where you're coming from without going, oh, are you telling me what to do? Instead of, oh, you're trying to help me. Okay, I understand that. And that's what I'm learning in this relationship. Yeah, which is beautiful. And when you say you're better, I would imagine you feel healthier than ever.

1:14:13Can we talk about the alopecia? And you mentioned a panic attack as well. I would imagine this was brought on by stress. One in three women will experience alopecia at one point in their lives. That blew me away. And women with high levels of stress are 11 times more likely to experience hair loss than women who are more relaxed. Now, panic attacks, one in three people in the UK will experience some sort of panic attack, which I didn't realize. That's how prevalent it is. And women are two times more likely than men to have panic attacks. And what this says to me is it shows how incredibly important our relationships are.

1:15:08So do you still suffer from alopecia and do you still suffer from panic attacks? No. Not at all? Nothing. I experienced two panic attacks. And one was during intermission after a performance that I was in the West End in the same place where I danced with, actually with the same company. Oh, wow. And we run through the audience and then we go back through the front of the house. And I remember that all of a sudden, it was a very stressful day already, but I was already stressed out because of him. Yes. So anytime I had anything major happening in my life, something happened that he would do to make sure that I didn't have a good day.

1:16:00Yes. To make sure that all attention was on him. I don't exactly remember what happened with him, but I was definitely fighting with him. and I remember getting off the stage running and then I started having this panic attack in the front of the house. Then they rushed me to the back and I was just crying. I couldn't breathe and they were putting ice on me. And then obviously I only had 20 minutes, you know, intermission and I had to get myself set to do the second half of the show in front of friends and family and press.

1:16:34And my hair has grown back. my panic attacks are not there. I am sleeping better. I don't drink. And that's not a, oh, I want to be clear. I want to heal in every way. Yes. And now that you're in this very introspective place, looking back now, how do you think friends and family could have helped you prior to the intervention? Yeah. It's really tough because you are not thinking straight. You know, you're in this unprotective, I don't want to, la, la, la, la, la, la, la. You're literally like that. Yes. I'm not going to listen to you. This is my life. I know what I'm going to do. I know what I need to do.

1:17:25So you're in this like attack mode. Uh-uh. so it's understanding where you're coming from which is hard which is hard for everyone everyone around me was understanding and and and I think they were just giving me time they just gave me time because they knew I would figure it out and they were there like never there was never a time where I felt that if I didn't call my friend and I went I'm done that's they They would literally put everything down and come and get me. It was almost like they were waiting for that call. I wish somebody would have just forced me. Forced me out of it. How so? Like a physical.

1:18:11Like a physical. Intervention. Physical. You know, so I have a family member who we, in essence, created an intervention moment. almost duped them into thinking they were going to one place and they went to another place and we kind of sat around and talked to the person. But what we didn't do is almost lock the door to keep them in there. But it sounds like that's what you're saying. You're saying that you needed to be a physical barrier to keep you there. But do you think that would have helped? You would have listened? Probably. Okay. Probably. Okay. Because that would have broken me down. Okay.

1:18:56That would have broken me down because you were leaving it up to me in which I was not capable of making those decisions at that moment. For someone who's in a new relationship, what are some of the early signs from your lived experience that you could share with people to say, watch out for these things? it's the things with your friends when they don't want you to be around your friends we don't want you to be around family it makes them uncomfortable why does it make you uncomfortable you know it's and that's when the isolation slowly starts it's the constant checking up on you where are you what are you doing I'm just here and then they constantly keep at it checking on you, checking on you, who you're with, what's going on.

1:19:52I mean, the fact that I had to send a picture of myself in my bed making sure that nobody was next to me. Wow. Wow. I've not heard of that before. Yeah. Or they video call you, they FaceTime you, and show me around your room. Really? Open the closet.

1:20:13What? Yeah. It's, it can get very extreme very quickly. But you know, the space that we haven't spent enough time on, I suspect you feel this, is that you had a broken heart before you meeting this gentleman. You had a broken heart. And I don't think that we in society give enough due to what a broken heart does to us psychologically. You know, a lot of researchers will liken a broken heart to the physical pain of breaking a limb. What I feel you did is you said, I need anything to soothe this pain. Here's someone giving me attention. And then you're ignoring the red flags because all you're seeking are the green.

1:21:09You talked about turning away the good ones, looking into the bad ones, right? This repetition compulsion that we talked about. You know, you could see how our every interaction that we have throughout our life shapes and impacts the next relationship that we have. And this is why I'm so happy to hear you talk about you being in a healthy space, in a healthy relationship, right? Because you've picked up lesson after lesson after lesson. You have a master's degree in relationship lessons. You know what I mean? You have a master's degree out here. I never thought I was going to be a professional at that.

1:21:57You're a double professional. You can dance and you have all this. You know, throughout your life, right, one consistent is that you are a hard worker. Yeah. Right? You are always, you are grinding, you are grinding, you are grinding. And the Speakeasy Tour, I didn't realize, how many dates did you do on the Speakeasy Tour? 40. 40 dates. Yeah. All around the UK. Yeah. Yes. There was one I was trying to go to. Yeah, there was one. I think I was filming or I was in, yeah, I was filming somewhere. So the tour is over now. Yeah. But will it come back? We'll see. We'll see, yeah. We'll see depending on scheduling, et cetera.

1:22:39But I'd love for it to come back 100%. Yeah. All right. And then, of course, Strictly. Yes. Right. So this is 14th year. Almost Strictly. Yeah. 14th year. Oh, yeah. Right. So longest running professional. Yes. How does that make you feel? Good. Good. Good. I like it. Yes, I'm 43. I feel great. I feel on top of my game. I'm dancing really well. I feel stable. And that is one thing that I hadn't had in a long time. So to be back to a show that brings happiness, brings joy, you know, drama. Yes, yes. It's great. Yes. and I would imagine contributing to that joy is, are you in love? Yes. Yes. There you go.

1:23:36That's joy. Yeah. It's good. I can see we're in the same zone in life. It's just like, we don't want any drama. You know, I have my own path. And I'll continue on my own little path. So on that path, what else is on the future of that path? I'd love to do a little bit of everything. Okay. You know, acting, hopefully, you never know, judging on strictly. Oh, okay. You know, judging anywhere else in any other country. In another language, I speak Spanish if anybody wants to take me. You know, who knows, writing a book, doing stuff. Yes. You know, and also being with the community, being with people, helping children dance and helping adults dance and discover themselves from the inside.

1:24:27Yes. And that it's okay to feel a bit funny and feel a bit different.

1:24:39Learn how to enjoy yourself. Yes. And I think we do need to start a petition to have you be a judge on Strictly. I think we could do that. That would be brilliant. We could just make it happen. Someone has to leave first. We could just make that happen. Just put an extra chair for me. Yeah. But no, no, I think that would be incredible. That would be incredible. Is there anything that we have not discussed? Because we've talked about a lot. Oh, I know. But think, if there's anything that we have not discussed that you would like to.

1:25:16I'm not a victim and I've risen from every time that I've been down I've gotten up and I've continued and that's what I will keep doing

1:25:36and God help those men

1:25:41oh my gosh i didn't know you're gonna end it like that but yeah that was good that was good so then the final question that everyone gets that is really my favorite question is karen when you think about how incredible your life has been right and the experiences that you've had you've had many conversations with many people what was the most memorable conversation you had. Who was it with and what did you learn?

1:26:16My mom just came to stay with me for about three months, three, four months. She stayed with me and she opened up to me about her past.

1:26:30and you know listen my mom is 73 now she's getting older and she was she saw how distraught I was and how what I was going through and she had never really opened herself up you'd never really know much about your parents I would never go and ask my mom hey so what happened to you like back in 72 So she literally went through the same thing. The lying, the, you know, she ended up having a child, my sister. But the man that she was with literally turned her life upside down. And she walked away with a child. and I've seen my mom and her ups and downs and I've always seen her get up. Never ever has it stopped her from being a tough lady with resilience and I think that's what my mom has taught me is resilience.

1:27:42But I've never seen this vulnerable side of my mom. Because she refused to show that to us. Because there was no time to show vulnerability when we were in need. So to see her open up to me like that, it just showed me that I have the greatest role model in my mother.

1:28:06Ugh. It's beautiful. You know, what I can't help but think is just as your mother opened up and shared that with you, you've done the same with all of us. You've opened up, you've shared a story that you've never shared before. And just as your mother's sharing those stories with you, it helped you. It empowered you. It inspired you. It made you more resilient. Your experience was not in vain because I believe it will literally you telling this story not only has set you free, but it will set free many countless others. So thank you for that. We are all cheering for you. I love that you're still in love with marriage.

1:28:59I am. I'm going to be married soon everybody's invited I love cake we will all come I'm kidding I'm not getting married but no but truly true you know what's interesting is the word that I have for it is inspiring this has been inspiring so thank you thank you Karen Hauer you know her body language which I thought was very expressive. And it makes sense because she's a dancer. So she was so expressive with her body language. And I think some people may look at that and say, oh, she's performing. But no, that's how she communicates. You can see how at a very early age, a coping mechanism that she developed was to basically transform into the smiley person.

1:30:00And in one way, you could say, oh, that's a negative coping behavior. But in another, you could look at how that is one of the ways that she's been so successful as a dancer because she's been able to compartmentalize and perform. Karen kept her third husband hidden from her friends and family. And she said it plainly. She never would have entered the relationship if her friends and family had met her partner. But that is a great takeaway for the audience, is that if you're unsure, if you are intentionally hiding that from people that you love and you respect, it's wrong. And why is this, right?

1:30:47our friends and family the ones who truly love and adore us they have our best interest at heart the key is to look at the consensus you know for example like with my brother my brother knows i never liked any of his girlfriends except for his current girlfriend can i say that but my brother's super smart he would bring his girlfriend around me my wife my mother my father and he would take a consensus. All right, I know Paul's not going to like her, but what does everyone else think? If everyone else didn't like her, then he knows. And I guarantee you where the consensus is, is where is the direction that you need to head in.