EXCLUSIVE Nadiya Hussain Breaks Silence on BBC Exit! The Truth About My Decade On TV

42:57So I can imagine, though, but your parents, though, applying that pressure. Yeah. One of the first things my dad said to my father-in-law was, I'm just letting you know that she has got dark skin. and you know my father was like look you know never mind we'll see what happens and then we met so his family came to my family home and we met we didn't actually meet everyone sort of sat together and I'm upstairs getting dressed but I'm sure you're you're listening I I know and you know because my husband told me off okay so I'm upstairs yeah I'm upstairs getting dressed and so there's this whole thing with an arranged marriage where you come down And you sit in front of everybody and everybody looks at you.

43:41Wow. It's really weird. Please break this down for me. I'm so fascinated by this. So who was in the room before you got there? His entire family. So brothers, brother's wife, nephews and nieces. And he's one of seven. So a few of them came. Not all of them, just a few. And my father-in-law, my mother-in-law and an elder. So an elderly relative of theirs. And from our side of the family, it was my mom, dad, siblings. and my brother-in-law at the time. So at the time, quite small, but all the necessary people. Are there. And before you get there, what are they doing? Are they, it's a discussion, but is it almost even a negotiation?

44:23Yes. So they're negotiating, you know, a dowry. They're negotiating, you know, date. They're talking about dates and how much money will be spent on the wedding outfits and gold. They talk gold because they have to give me gold and they have to negotiate how many grams of gold I get. So they negotiate all of that amongst themselves, but not till they see me. They've got to see me first. Okay. And I'm like shaking like a leaf because I like this guy and he's perfect for me. But his family might not think I'm perfect for him. So that could sway him or change his mind. it felt like a meat market it was odd and I'd seen my own cousins do these kinds of things and I've always been really uncomfortable with them because I think it's just weird and uncomfortable and feels really degrading my husband handed me a gold bracelet as a way of saying that he wants to proceed so he gave me this gold bracelet tried to put it on but couldn't fail he was shaking as well and then somebody else put it on and they asked me to leave and so I got up and left and then I got really brave and I said can I just have two minutes to talk to him by myself please and my dad was like no this is not the dumb thing we don't want to do this and and and then Abdal piped it up and he said look I'd like two minutes with her please because I've literally I haven't been able to really lay eyes on her because everybody's in the room and they're expecting him to be um they're expecting him not to like oh just look at me because it's it's it's it's rude and disrespectful but also weird because they're all sat in the room looking at me as well but oh interesting so he's in front of you but he's not supposed to look at you he's supposed to kind of like like in a kind of like a coy shy cute kind of way okay but he goes but i actually really want to see her properly can i just have a look can I just, can I just talk to her?

46:26And so I had to have chaperones in the room with me. So my brother, who was 10 at the time, and my sister, who was 15 or 16 at the time, they were both sat in the room playing, playing on some sort of console. And he, I went upstairs and he came into the room and he just said, oh my God, you're so beautiful. That was our first ever interaction. and then he said, I think we're getting married. And that was it. Those were the two sentences he said. And we were in the room for about three minutes and they just took him away. He took away. And that was it. We met each other. That's the first time, three minutes.

47:05And they set the wedding date for 10 days after that. And so we got married in my mum and dad's house. So it's a very quick, an Islamic marriage is very quick. Goodness. Okay. And we're not actually in the same room. We say our vows separate. Do you? Yeah, you're not even in the same room because you're not allowed to really be together till you're married. So you're married. And then do you agree? Is that really your father's decision if he accepts? Is it yours or your father's? It's with all the conditions. It's the person who's getting married. It's their decision. So it's do you agree to the terms?

47:41Do you agree to the dowry? Do you agree to the money? Do you agree to look after this man's daughter? Do you agree? and then I said, well, we're married now, so please can I be in a room with the man? And so we had all, we, everybody went downstairs and we had five minutes, just five minutes. So this is the first time that you were alone. Yeah. Was when you were married. Yeah. We had five minutes. They didn't give us five minutes. Five minutes? Yeah. What did you? We can't do much in five minutes. Some people can do a lot in five minutes. Yeah, because they can. I'm sure they can. We needed more than five minutes.

48:26Oh, my God. Oh, my gosh. So you said you enjoyed the five minutes. Yeah, we literally just, he just said, you look amazing. I had this mint green sari on. It was so simple and so perfect. And he was wearing his attire and it was really cool. And it was just literally five minutes. And then because we had the big wedding in Bangladesh. so we did that and I didn't move in with him we didn't move out or anything so he went away I stayed at home and then literally another 10 days later we went off to Bangladesh together yeah so that day ends he's gone and he leaves yeah he's gone okay you're still at home but you're married now and I did I said you know I could come up to Leeds or you could come we can actually hang out we can be together and he's like no we couldn't so then the main wedding though is in Bangladesh yeah we wanted it to be in the UK but it's more expensive in the UK but my father and my dad they decided that they could get a nice little trip to Bangladesh out of our wedding and it would be cheaper we got to feed 3 ,000 people at the wedding two and a half of them were probably two and a villages, people off the streets, because that's the blessing.

49:49The blessing is to feed people who don't have anything. Okay. So when you say 3 ,000 people, was that the invites to the wedding? Yeah. 3 ,000 people? Yeah. 3 ,000 people at your wedding? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know any of them. I didn't know any of them. What they do is they announce, every mosque will announce that so-and-so's son, daughter are getting married. If you need a meal, come and eat. so people off the streets poor folk people you don't they just come off the streets and they come and eat because that's the blessing you give back and that was a blessing I love that I love that I would love to do that with my own kids because you know for very little money you can feed a lot of people in Bangladesh yes that does sound beautiful yeah it's so beautiful it's so beautiful I mean of all of those probably about 500 were our family four or five hundred which is big enough as it is but the best bit for me was when it was over and we were driving back to his village which was two and a half hours away from ours we were sat next to each other bearing in mind this whole time we've not been allowed to sit near each other really talk to each other or anything he was sat next to me and all he did was like put his knee against my knee the whole time and I was like stop being weird and I was like I was kind of doing this oh it's weird um but he kept putting his legs just get wider and wider and he kept putting his and that's the only contact he could have with me without it anyone noticing um and then we stopped off he went to a mosque prayed and I was like oh he's a good one he's a good one I just I had a good feeling and then we we went back and I remember um they were kind of prepping for me to get into the house because there's some traditions that you have to kind of have something sweet before you get into the house.

51:44And so they were prepping for those traditions. And we were sat in the car alone, first time ever alone, no time restriction. We sat there and he goes, you are the most beautiful thing I've ever, ever seen. And I think I believed him in that moment. Did you? Yeah. It's interesting because it was a range. It was kind of a range, but not really. I would say kind of semi half and half. Yeah. I picked him because I knew he was right for me, not because my family, because what they wanted for me was not what they wanted for me. It was what they wanted for them. Great point. So for me, that's the first time I think I advocated for myself in marrying the person I wanted to marry.

52:21And it's the best decision I ever made. I see it. I see it. How did you two make it work? Because early on, you're just, I mean, at that point, by the time you're in Bangladesh at the actual wedding, you've only seen each other twice. Yeah. In person. Yeah. You know, so then how do you then make a marriage work with someone who you've just met? I think one of the things that makes an arranged marriage work is not to have this fixated idea or this kind of very rigid idea that everything's 50-50. Because people say 50-50 in a marriage a lot. They throw that around quite a lot. They do. I hate it because there's no such thing as 50-50.

53:01There's points where somebody is putting 99 % in and somebody's putting 1 % in. And there's points where it is 50-50 and there's points. If you stay rigid in the 50-50, then I don't think marriages work because there's points where one person puts in more and one person can put in less. But you have to be there for that because there's times when we got married, realised that me working is pointless because any money I make will go to childcare care and I'll not see my kid so there's no point in me working so I chose to be a housewife I was like no I'm going to stay at home I'm going to raise my children and I'm going to have a beautiful home and I'm going to be here so you can because he'd only fresh come out of his degree so he was only just getting into his sort of line of work um and he progressed in the 10 years that I was at home with the kids he progressed hugely in his career like and and um we were so lucky that he was able to financially, we were able to financially not need me to work.

54:00We were able to buy a house. We were able to go on holidays. You know, we were able to do all of those things with his wage. So, and that was only because I, because I sacrificed my own need for a career to stay at home with the kids, but that didn't feel like a sacrifice. It wasn't a sacrifice because we were doing it for our family. Right. It was a team. Team effort. Team effort. Yeah. Just the same as when I won Bake Off, he was definitely putting in 80 % and I was doing 20 % because I was traveling the world. I was filming. I was on set. I was hardly ever at home. I cooked meals. I put them in the freezer and I was out on the next plane.

54:37So he definitely in those 10 years put in way more than I did. But we did it as a team effort. So I think to make a marriage like that work is, I think, any marriage, I think, just don't be fixated on the 50-50. The 50-50, yeah. I think that's brilliant advice. Do you two also do these daily huddles where you come together and discuss what's happened? What happens in this daily huddle? Because I find this very interesting. Yes, we give ourselves scores. We score each other. We score each other every day. Every day. we sit down or it's in bed or we lay in bed and be like right what's your score today and it's basically your score as a husband or a wife and your score as a parent so we'll be like today you were definitely a 10 out of 10 it's like oh yay so he knows that he's done something right yeah he knows the things that he's done right during the day and he knows to repeat those things going forward and so we score ourselves as as husband and wife and then score ourselves as parents and and we openly discuss what we think we should get so I'm like you were definitely a four today and he's like yeah I was a four but I think I was three actually so we discussed the score and that really helps us to kind of do better the next day so we every day we four out of ten five out of ten so interesting yeah what's the lowest score that you've ever received oh zero I've had zeros you've had zeros yeah yeah yeah you know when you lose it a little bit you just like there's days when I'm like I've shouted at the kids and I'm like oh I shouldn't have shouted I shouldn't have had a go at them we have those days it's really okay to talk about those things as well it's like it's okay to have a zero but it's about how you go from a zero to a one to a two to a three and just keep building that up um but yeah I think it really really helps us to be honest without judgment yes yes i love it i love it so then you two uh abdul is is your husband's name you both go on to have then three beautiful children yeah all right if we can talk about mental health yeah and anxiety because this is something that you have battled for quite quite a long time yeah when did anxiety first creep into your life do you believe When was that moment where I would say you actually began having panic attacks?

57:04I started to have panic attacks at seven or eight. Okay. But I would, yeah, that was quite young. And I used to have them and then make excuses to not be in a public place, whether that's home, school. And then I would have them in bathrooms or toilets at school. or I got into the habit of having them into pillows. So I would have panic attacks in pillows. So I got really good at hiding them. So maybe six or seven. And for all of us who may not know what a panic attack is, what is it? It manifests itself in lots of different ways and I think it's different for lots of people. But for me, it's really shallow breathing.

57:50You can feel your heart in your head. it races and you can feel your heartbeat uh you get really hot really sweaty uh you struggle to breathe um and just tears lots I cry and just and I get feel really faint and I feel really really faint so I have to be low down so I don't faint and I've had panic attacks so bad that I have passed out and then woken up and be like what's what's just happened so um that's how they manifest for me um but and they and I can feel them coming you know when they're coming you have little triggers and sometimes you can just I can feel it in my chest like I can it's deep I can feel it you can feel it there like I can feel it there so I know when it's coming but as I've gotten older I've kind of learned to manage them and another thing that's huge with my mental health and anxiety is all I've wanted from a really young age is to cure it to say I need a cure I need something to fix me I need something to fix it and what I've really come to accept is that there's no fix there's no quick fix there's no pill there's no operation there's nothing that's going to fix you you have to the only way you really can fix it is is to learn to give yourself the toolbox to manage it so I have certain ways that I manage my anxiety I'm naturally quite a chaotic person, so I kind of hear there and everywhere.

59:26And I love routine. And so things like routine, if something goes out of place and I'm like, oh, something's moved back by half an hour, that would send me into overdrive. And that could cause me to have a panic attack. And letting go of some of that has really helped me to be like, it's all right. It does not matter. The way I describe it is my monster. So I wrote a kid's book many, many years ago describing what anxiety feels like for me. and it's called My Monster and Me and it's a monster and sometimes my monster is so big it's in my face and I can't do anything and I found ways of making my monster small and sometimes my monster is really big and I can't manage and sometimes it's kind of medium sized and it kind of follows me around and taps me on the shoulder and sometimes it's teeny tiny and I can just put it in my pocket and I can walk around with it but it doesn't go away and that's how I describe anxiety to children okay and so and that's been hugely helpful for me educating people and explaining and advocating for those people who don't have voices and saying look this is how you know they're because part of a huge part of mental health is conversation and talking to people you trust and love who will take that information and and and not judge you for and and and there be no judgment in being honest about how you feel.

1:00:49So that's how I kind of describe my mental health is my monster. And it's very much in my pocket a lot of the time. I see it. There was one interview where I literally saw you say, we need to talk. Yeah. Oh, God. Yes. We need to talk more about this, right? This is the key. The key is communication. Yes. And what I love is that you have been really, I think, at the forefront of what I'll call the mental health wave that has begun. And we're nowhere near where we need to be in terms of talking about it. But I felt like you were really at the forefront of beginning to really talk about it. And very, I think in a very noble gesture, you were able to disclose about your anxieties and your panic attacks.

1:01:35One of the best things I learned about having anxiety, apart from the actual needing to talk, the bit where we actually talk, is vulnerability. because the hardest thing is to be that one of the hardest things when you have a mental health illness is to be vulnerable because you don't want to be seen as weak um and letting your guard down and saying I'm going to be vulnerable with you is a huge it's a huge you have to really trust somebody to give somebody that and um all I can do is like the truth is I don't know who I'd be without anxiety and who I am is someone I'm really proud of and it's made me a better wife it's definitely made me a better daughter it's been made me a better mother um it's gonna make me an excellent grandma oh yeah oh yeah and great grandma and great yeah Paul your show sponsor tinder wants to know can you remember the very first spark you felt between you and Jill absolutely The first spark was the first time I saw her, which was from behind, to be honest with you.

1:02:41She was walking up ahead with her father. She turned around, and I thought, oh, my goodness. She looks like a model. Like, she's perfect. And then what happened is, because we were in a summer program, we went to the class, and Jill had the highest test score among our class. And I knew, wow, at that moment, that was it. She was beautiful. She was smart. That was the spark. That's all I needed. The spark is where it starts. It's like you're opening a new book. It is the beginning, and that's why the spark is so exciting and so beautiful. What's great about Tinder, it's the place that allows you to start the spark, and then you can carry that spark into real life where it matters most.

1:03:26So remember, it starts with a swipe. Download Tinder today. So you've written 18 books in the last 10 years. 10 years, yeah. Okay. And then you've also been on television consistently. For 10 years. For 10 years. Yeah. All right. Extraordinary career. Yeah. But it begins with who I'm going to call the MVP of your story, your husband. Yeah. He is the MVP. Yeah. So tell me, how does he truly become your conduit, your connection to television? And at this time, though, I understand you're not a baker. I just bake at home, yeah. I mean, you're just at home, but not even doing it. You know, I think there's like amateur bakers at home.

1:04:17Yeah. But you're just for fun. Oh, for fun, self-taught. I was like croissants. I was making croissants and you know like yeah just pastry and I was just making all these kind of really cool desserts and cake and you name it baking but I was only baking because I was really anxious and it really helped to quiet my mind so baking really just helped me just to like zone out and it was my therapy it was my kind of therapy so it's something to do with my hands quiet my brain and so I used to just do that and I just got really good at it and my husband just kept saying And he just said, one day, one day, he just said, you could do that show.

1:04:57I said, no, I couldn't. Don't be ridiculous. Went away. And I think it must have been three days before the deadline for the 2015 Bake Off. He'd done the application form. And he said, I've done all the boring bits, like address, GP address, all of that. He said, but I can't do the bakey bits. Could you just humor me? Just do it. I said, I'll do it, but they're not going to ring me. It's not going to happen. Whatever. Three days later, I get a phone call and do an interview. You have to do quite a round of tests. So you do a phone interview. Then you have to go there and do a screen test. And then you have to take some bakes.

1:05:33So there's particular bakes that you have to take that are your own bakes. And then they give you a Paul and Mary bake. And then you have to do those. So six months worth of back and forth, back in sports. And then I get a phone call. And they say, you've made it to the final 12. I was like, oh, OK. completely like numb. I was like, okay, yeah. Put the phone down. Husband comes home. I didn't even text him. Comes home and I said, you know I made it to the final 12. He reacts the way a normal person would react which is like, it's excited and happy. And then I said, I'm not doing it. He goes, you did all that to not do it.

1:06:07He said, you're doing it. And I said, I'm not. You're going to have to call them and tell them I died. He said, you call them and tell them you died. And I said, well, I can't, can I? Because I'd be dead.

1:06:21And so I said, look, I'll do it. I'll do it. But I just, I don't think I'm going to get very far. And he goes, look, just don't get kicked out week one because that would be really embarrassing. I'm like, don't put pressure on me. But there I was week on week, week on week. And I have to ask, going into it though, you're not sure what you're fearful of. Yeah. But you're still in fear. Your husband's propping you up, giving you that motivation. do you begin to think at all okay i'm going on i'm a second generation bangladeshi woman of color like i'm muslim do you begin to think about any of those aspects of your identity i didn't till i walked into the tent didn't even think about it okay till i actually walked into the tent and then i walked in and i looked around i was like oh great because i know that feeling I know what it's like to be the only me in a room full of people that all feel familiar to each other.

1:07:21But I felt like the alien. I walked and I was like, oh. And even production, you know, the team behind the scenes, there was nobody like me. So I was like, I felt very much like a, I stuck out like a sore thumb. And I felt different. But there was Tamal was on there and he's from a part of Bangladesh. but again I just didn't feel like I just felt like I just felt very alien. How do you describe that? How does feeling alien how do you how does that feel to feel alien? You know the voices in your head you know the noise in your head just gets really loud that's what it feels like to me so all the things that I always questioned about myself they just get really loud and that just overtakes everything because then you're like am I wearing the right clothes am I am I am I am I um are they looking at me do I look weird do I pronounce my t's better because I'm amongst loads of English people like am I speaking okay like am I eloquent enough um so it's things like that and and and through time I realized that I've just made myself in the last 10 years I feel like I've just made I do I often look back at myself and think I'm just a caricature of myself yeah do you yeah for sure my whole life I've constantly shrunk myself to make everybody else comfortable so even when I was in that tent I would speak but I would try I saw hard not to sound like I was from Luton.

1:09:00I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Sound as not bilingual as possible. Pronounce your T's. Speak slowly. Say every word properly. I'm thinking that while trying to bake, while being judged. So it just gets louder. That's what alien feels like. But you win. Yeah. Was not expecting that. so then how does that change your perception of you and your identity and your self-worth well you know what I want to say to you that I stepped away from there feeling like my self-worth was at its best and I felt amazing but what happened to me so quickly after winning Bake Off was that I fell into a career that I never expected to have and didn't want that But winning Bake Off did not prepare me for the suspect that it is to be in the public eye.

1:10:05So can you describe winning and then what happens in those few weeks after winning? Because I would imagine winning, your life does, I mean, clearly your life changed. Yeah. And I'd already had production living in my house. That's right. Okay. That's right. So you were getting death right. And I think this is important, though, to unpack is that so you're on the show. And then you receive a death threat. Yeah. So what is that like? Because many people have never. Unfortunately, I have been on the receiving end of a death threat. It can really throw you off, especially if it involves you. That should not be normal.

1:10:44It should not be normal at all. When you receive it, when, where were you? How did it impact you? It's soul destroying because. somebody hates you enough to want you dead. And then you ask yourself, why? Am I that bad? Why do you want me dead? Like, I couldn't understand it. I was like, I lost my faith in humanity completely. I was like, no, I don't know. It messes with your head. And then your family as well. You have to be thinking immediately about, I have children. Protect. Yes. You go into lioness mode and you're like, I'm just going to protect my kids. But we had panic buttons installed in the house because, yeah.

1:11:30And my daughter grew up, up until now, thinking that everyone had panic buttons in their house. Direct to the police because doesn't everyone have panic buttons in their house? Look at that. Yeah. And that was a level of security. Your house in case there was an intruder. Yeah. That anyone, your children, can hit that button. Yep. The police would be called. They'd be in the house within a minute because we've had people come to the door. We've had people try and look over into the house and get pictures and things like that. And so we've had to be really, really careful with the kids. And to the point where we live in a house that's actually overlooked by seven neighbours because we feel protected because all our neighbours know us.

1:12:10Yes. So it's really cool because actually when we're out, they see us. And so if there's any problems, we've taught our kids to go out in the garden and shout because there'll be a neighbour that'll hear you. Look at that. So, yeah. And that's not normal. Like, that's not normal. So what about the good? The good? Oh, my goodness. After all these years of doing it, it's the people I meet. Whenever I meet someone, like the day after I won, I met a lady who had postnatal depression. And she's a Muslim woman who wears a hijab and she had postnatal depression, hadn't left the house for nine months.

1:12:43and she said you are the reason why I got my baby into that car seat drove my car for the first time in nine months and came to Tesco just to get some milk because if you can do that then I can go to Tesco and for me I felt like I met her and there was a reason why God made our paths meet and ever since that moment and being on television and writing books and being in the public eye one of the best things for me has been the fact that I've been able to represent people like me who don't see any worth in themselves but went out there went and walked to the other side of fear and looked back and said fear is not a big deal I can handle fear and can do something that is so incredibly scary but stand there and say I'm going to take up this space because it's important for me to take up this space because it's I didn't realize how important it was to be the voice for the voiceless and that's a huge responsibility for me but it's one that I don't carry lightly you know I carry it with pride it's heavy but I carry it because I know it's my responsibility yes yeah you know that was reminiscent um that sentiment whether you just gave that was reminiscent of I think that speech that you gave um when you won yeah which I understand wasn't written no that just came from the heart yeah uh and you really got emotional during that speech and it was very empowering and I think it was very empowering I think for the voiceless and for those who have always felt like um they you know that that in essence we need to be our own self-advocate like anyone who watches that speech at the end and it wasn't rehearsed everyone said did you write that I said absolutely no I did not write I didn't think I was going to win anybody who knows watches that knows that that baking show was more than a baking show to me it did something to me it allowed me to step in the power step into the power that I didn't know I had is that the sentiment with the elbows out yes yes that is my kids affirmation every time my kids have a moment and they need to hear it I'm like elbows out because you live in a world where you are different you are not like everybody else there's going there you are going to fight 10 times harder for 10 times less I know I've worked 10 times harder than the people in my industry for 10 times less and still and still I fight I continue elbows out I tell them elbows out do it like when you physically do it and you make space for yourself it feels really empowering but you in here you make space for yourself so you can make space for others and in those moments where I feel really down and I'm really struggling, especially where work is concerned.

1:15:31Like I have to tell myself, elbows out, remember why you did this. Remember why you continued despite the death threats, despite the abuse, despite the hate, despite the online comments. Despite all of that, you continued to stand there with your elbows out and you made space for you. But there was a bigger picture. It was for everyone else. It was for everyone. Yeah. But you just mentioned when you look back, you became a caricature of yourself. So we need to understand how this happens. So you win. Yeah. Incredible speech. I would imagine a lot begins to change. So I would imagine the industry begins to call.

1:16:15So agents probably reach out to you. Everyone wants to represent you. Different production companies probably come offering different deals. so how do you begin to navigate the business of the industry once you win well the first thing that happened was I got myself an agent and um because they suggest that they suggest when you win bake-off they say when you get to the end last sort of episodes last three they suggest they give you a list of agents and say look we suggest that you get yourself an agent because work could come your way work may not come your way but you need to be prepared for somebody to be able to negotiate those deals with you and so I did that thinking I will never ever get any work I was like okay look I'll just do it but I can sign up and if I get no work and that's fine so I get an agent and there's a lot of I think once you are in the industry you've got to be really like there's this moment where you realize how filtered you have to become and there's certain things you can say there's certain things you can't say and and I always get asked people say are you are you um are you trained are you media trained and I'm like no absolutely not media trained but I have learned through time how to sort of kind of be like a politician where you kind of don't have to answer fully but you do answer the question but there's a lot of that you kind of and what's really difficult about going from being not in the public eye to being in the public eye is that now you're managed by somebody so what you wear how you speak what you do what you post what you don't post all of that somebody is always overlooking that so there's you lose control there's and so that's where you do no matter how much you'd try to retain your identity which is something that I've worked really hard to do there is always going to be an element of filter there's going to be a gate there's going to be an invisible filter that your management has to do they have to um and that's there's points where I look back and I think I was I truly myself in that what was the when was the first moment when you look back throughout your career where you looked in the mirror and thought you know what I'm not me anymore um when I was doing one of my cookery shows um I was doing one of my cookery shows and I love a good knit jumper like I love a good knit and I was filming around the country and I was wearing these knitted jumpers and the feedback we got was, she needs to not wear knitted jumpers, it makes her look bigger than she already is.

1:18:50And so, you will never see me wear knitted jumpers after that. From that point, never wore a knitted jumper. I don't know if that's as manufactured as you get because, well, if they don't want me to wear a knitted jumper because it makes me look bigger, then, well, I've got to do the show when I've got to listen to them. Even though I love knitted jumpers. Although I love a knitted jumper. So that for me, but what I should have done was continue to wear the knitted jumpers. But why didn't you? Because I was sold the dream. It's like, career, you've got to keep your career going. Like, you've got to keep your career going.

1:19:29I was always made to feel like my trophy was just going to get taken away from me because I felt like I had to always be grateful. I had to be consistently grateful for the opportunity that I was given. A Muslim that was relatable. A Muslim, like the people's Muslim. The people's person of colour. The digestible version of myself. So I had to just constantly be grateful. and gratitude should not sit on your face like a muzzle. And that's what it felt like because I felt muzzled. There's right and there's wrong. And when I see wrong, I say, that's wrong. That shouldn't happen. And what I found with the industry is that when you complain, you're considered a nuisance.

1:20:22The problem with this industry is that they very much, they protect men. They protect the men in our industry and they make excuses for men. And I think when, as a woman, you make a complaint or you say something, when it's met with, yeah, but, you know, it's just the way that person is, then your complaint goes nowhere. It just sits there on a desk and nothing happens. And so little by little, I could feel, I've always felt a little bit uncomfortable. In every job that I've done, I felt discomfort. But with every job, I felt like I'm being moulded just a little bit more, just a little bit more, just to make it perfect for everyone.

1:21:10I tried to write a book about parenthood, what it's like to be a parent from an ethnic minority background and to raise children who straddled two worlds. And I was told flat out that we are not publishing books like this. and we're not publishing books like this because books like this won't sell and people won't be interested and that really hit hard because essentially you're telling me that my voice doesn't matter you're telling me that nobody wants to hear our stories because they don't sell and then literally months later that same publishing house published a book by a social media influencer about motherhood and that hit hard and that's when I knew there was something really wrong with the industry because up to this point I didn't think that I was a tick box exercise but then I look back and I think ah I was just they just needed to look diverse they needed to look like they just they they had the Muslim tick they got person of cut tick interesting so you look back at your career and you begin to think it was a lie it was a lie I didn't want to look at my career like that but I look back and I think oh my goodness it was all a tick box exercise till they just didn't need me anymore till they just said actually unless you're the version of if you unless you're the version that we want you don't get to be the version that's authentic and when you decide that you want to be authentic there's no room for you and that's when I was able to step into my true self but how does it feel to look back at your career and feel as if it was a tick in a box it's kind of sad it's sad but I used to be a glass half empty type of person before but I'm very much a glass full now because I don't believe that one door closes and another one doesn't open and if it's not open I'm going to kick it open and I'm going to wedge it open and keep it wedged open.

1:23:33It takes real strength to say it's okay I don't need the money I would rather be authentic and have less money than be inauthentic and not recognize myself and have money in the bank. Yes. That doesn't matter to me. But it seems like there were certain moments where the line was crossed. Yeah. Did you ever make a complaint? Did you ever file a complaint to anyone? I, yes. Yes, I did. You did? Yeah, twice. A few times probably. yeah a few times um I filed a complaint with a very big breakfast show that I did and they were mocking a recipe out of my book which I can almost guarantee if a Jamie Oliver or James Martin was on there promoting their book they would not sit at the end of the show and mock a recipe out of their book so I filed a complaint and I said um that's not acceptable it was a recipe called chart in a bag and chart is a is an Indian recipe okay South Indian South Asian recipe but they took that word and changed it and I didn't understand it so I asked my English sister-in-law what did why are they laughing at I don't understand it and she said oh they're they're mocking it because it's shat in a bag.

1:25:01Interesting. And I found that really distasteful and really hateful. And I said they need to apologize for that because that was really deeply disrespectful and nothing. Nothing. Nothing. They refused to apologize. Did you feel like you were then considered a troublemaker? Yes, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I would imagine the public's perception and their comments are also impacting you. Because, you know, we have so many celebrities on. We need to talk. What I find not fascinating, but I think the public finds fascinating, is that they virtually read every comment. Yeah. So were you reading most of your comments?

1:25:48I used to read all of my comments. At that time. At that time. So you were reading all of them? Yeah. And when you're reading them, what are you reading? It's dangerous reading comments because you could get a thousand good comments, but that one really bad one is the only one you hear. And that's really bad. So I stopped reading comments a really, really long time ago. What I find really interesting are these examples of how you felt like you were just nudged a little bit, like the jumper, even making the complaint and then not having it being received. Can you think of other examples where you felt like this caricature was being created, you were being forced to just be compliant?

1:26:31There was a point where I was quite badly bullied by somebody that I was working with, that I filed a complaint, nothing happened. And to the point where I was, it was so bad and it's really embarrassing to even admit it. But the panic attacks came back. I started to have nightmares. and as a kid when I had panic attacks, I wet the bed until I was about 11 and at 30-something years old for the first time, I had such a bad panic attack, I lay in bed and I wet the bed. And I said to my husband, this can't go on. This is at 30-something years old. I was so badly bullied and nobody did anything. They told me, don't worry, this is just the way they are.

1:27:22It's okay. So you were not only bullied, but you made the complaint. Yeah. And you were told. It's just the way they are. The way it is. Yeah. It's just the way it is. What's your husband saying at this point? Because he's your best friend. He's very logical, you know, very rational in his thought process. What was he thinking? He said, you know, we don't need to do this. He said, you know, you don't need to do this. He always said, he's always said it to me. He said, we don't need you to work. I got you. But then it's that I'm doing it because I'm creating space. But what happened with that, the reason why it was so contradictory for me was because I was taking up this space and telling people that they can do what I do.

1:28:12They can have space. I'm creating space for them. But nobody knows what's happening in order for me to be in that space. and because I couldn't say that out loud, because I couldn't say it, I couldn't bring it to my lips, it felt disingenuous. And my husband just said, so speak your truth. Say it. What's going to happen? Speak the truth.

1:28:42And best advice he's ever given me. What was the moment where you first spoke your truth?

1:28:53do you know what it's probably only been very you know what actually uh over a little over a couple of last year the year before when i when i so when i published my book rusa that was the first book i published that was attached to my faith and ramadan is a huge thing in this country 3.9 million muslims are celebrating it but we live in such a diverse country that no doubt somebody has a muslim neighbor or a Muslim friend and it felt like such a great book to do and after four years of really fighting with the publisher to publish this book I finally publish it and the day the book was published a brand pulled out the day a brand that was supporting you a brand that I was meant to be working with oh interesting pulled interesting yeah what was the reason that they gave uh just timing was bad even though we'd gone through negotiations and we were like gonna work with this brand really excited pulled out didn't work out and I said why do you think that is what's different today to yesterday or the day before what's happened and then slowly lots of people were pulling out different brands yeah things were coming to an end and that's when you feel gaslit because they're like it's just the industry don't worry about it this is just the way it is no it's not what's changed come on what's changed right and that for me just speaking out about that was a big deal but I think my biggest changes have happened um over the last I'm gonna say 10 months yes the biggest changes that's that's how it feels at least from social Yeah.

1:30:40From my perspective on social, because I've followed you for quite some time, reflecting back, looking back now, it does look like there was this caricature. Yeah. And it was the publishing of your current book. And it's Rooza. Yeah. Rooza. Publishing of that book. And there was a video that you did around losing a thousand followers. Instantly. Instantly. Yeah. And I saw a different Nadia in that video. Yeah. That's how it felt to me. Yeah. Instantly. That's telling. And everyone around me was saying, no, it's fine. It's not in relation to your book. Yes, it is. What's changed? How is it that I publish a book?

1:31:28When I publish, every other book I've ever published has increased my following. but I published the one book the one book that is attached to my faith and the one book that is like truly truly like came from my heart and instantly a thousand followers gone and that to me was telling but everyone around me was like oh no no no it's fine it's fine and I just kind of decided that point I'm not going to be ghastly into thinking that everything's in my head because it's not in my head it's not I've I've walked I've walked on sets and people have said I'm not working if she's working I will not work with her and I've been told it's all right it's just the way he is it's just the way they are but I have to carry on get on smile do the show and I did it willingly but in doing so willingly I chipped away at my own self to the point where I didn't even know who I was anymore At the beginning of this year, for me, I decided that everything has to change.

1:32:33I'm going to change who I'm around. I'm going to change who I work with. And I will only work with people who want to hear my voice and who advocate for me as much as I advocate for myself and who believe in change and who believe in diversity and in difference. And I only want to work with people who want to see the world colorful because up until that point, I was working in a very gray world and I just don't want to live in that world anymore. And I would imagine part of your self-evaluation was how you were, what you were teaching your children. Yes. Based on your actions. I suppose what I want to tell people is that you can have it all.

1:33:25You can do all of this. You can take up the space that I take up, but you have to speak up and you have to speak your truth because only then will you genuinely sit within yourself happy and comfortable with who you are because I look back and I think that's not who I was. That's not who I want to be. Do you believe that speaking your truth is one of the reasons why your shows at BBC were not recommissioned? I think it's interesting because for a long time, I worked with the BBC for a really long time, and there's points where I'd looked at working with other channels, and other broadcasters, the feedback they gave us was, you're too BBC.

1:34:20And so I kind of resigned it in my head. I kind of accepted in my head that I was very BBC. Which means what? I don't know what it means. It means, I suppose, that they've got me exactly where they want me. I'm utterly unbiased. Okay. And just, they've got me where they want me. You're neutral. Neutral. And I am not neutral. I have opinions. And I have things to say. They'll keep you till you're of no use to them. And I think that's what happened. I think essentially I got lots of reasons why they couldn't commission the show. I had kind of rough reasons as to why they said that they couldn't commission the show.

1:35:07But no definitive, this is why we are not commissioning your show, considering my show got great ratings. I got the ratings every year, like really good ratings. So there's not, I can't see why there's a reason why my show wasn't recommissioned. But it was interesting because my husband and I always spoke about it and he just said, there's going to be a point where like they're just going to they're not going to need you anymore and the second you don't fit the box like they have a neat little box when you don't fit that box anymore you just there'll be no space for you and I suppose I don't fit that space anymore and to be fair I'm not comfortable in boxes anyway I prefer glass ceilings to smash through thank you very much but um yeah I suppose there's no space for me and and and I'm I'm kind of all right with that and that made me realize and it was really interesting because there was a lot of back and forth between how we how we talk about the fact that my show is no longer on the BBC and in the end I decided just to do a social media post and say that BBC have decided to no longer commission my show and I did that off my own back I chose to put that post out because that's the truth they chose not to commission my show um but when we were going back and forth as to how to announce that I got an email back saying that this is a proposed statement and I think Nadia should say that I no longer I'm no longer where I'm I no longer want to do my show on the BBC because I I'm focusing on different projects.

1:36:54And I said, that's not the truth, though. That's not the truth. And I said, I do not okay that statement because that's not the truth and I'm not putting that out. I'm not going to put that out. And that's when I decided that I no longer, I wanted to completely do everything by myself. so I just decided that I clean slate I no longer have an agent you let you let let the team go yep everyone's gone um because I want it to start from scratch as if I had one bake-off 10 years ago when I had nobody but my husband and myself and my instinct and my gut and what it tells me it's been the most freeing thing to know that every decision I make is my own and nobody gets to filter me yeah yes so when you look at the industry though yeah because you think about You've been in this industry space for 10 years, done countless television shows, documentaries, said the books, 18 books, countless speaking opportunities.

1:38:11I mean, your name and face, your brand is known all around the world. Yeah. Do you feel as if that box where you felt like there wasn't enough room at BBC, do you feel like that's the case for you and the industry? Or is that just you and that particular network? I do you know what I think I'm going to be the truest most honest version of myself entirely unfiltered with no management nobody to tell me what I can do can't do can say can't say and only then will I know what space the industry has for me but I'm not holding out for the industry I'm not holding out for the industry to accept me because that's what I've done my whole life.

1:39:03I will figure it out and I will find a space where I'm welcome. Yes. And that might not be in this industry and I'm all right with that. We've talked about quite a bit here. Yeah. Right. Is there anything that we have not yet discussed that you feel is important for us to talk about? I think I've given you everything but my blood type. What is your blood type, by the way? I don't know. Give it to me. Such a good chat. It's been amazing. It is. Well, you know, I have another question. Okay, go on. I have two more questions. Go on, go on. These are quick ones. Okay, go on. Hijab. Uh-huh. Color. Yeah.

1:39:42I notice you have a nice little orange. Yeah. But it looks very good with the whole outfit. But is this also the mood as well? Yeah. So if I wear a black hijab, know that I'm not in a good place. I do not wear black hijabs. I don't wear them. I never have. I don't like them. But all through make-off, I wore black because I'm stressed. But, yeah, my hijab determines my mood. And I always, I love color and I love wearing color. And if I'm in a colorful scarf, I'm probably feeling quite colorful. So, yeah, I just, yeah. You made me wear the yellow. Yeah, yellow. Yeah, I like the whole vibe. The whole vibe is good.

1:40:26Thank you. The whole vibe is good. Okay. So then I'll ask the question that everyone gets. And the question is this. If you think back to all of the conversations that you've had throughout your life, which one was the most memorable? Who was it with? And what did you learn?

1:40:49Oh, God, I'm a big talker, so I have lots of conversations. Probably my grandma. My grandma's 92. and she's now legally blind sharp as a she's really sharp so she um she's amazing she's amazing my grandma's amazing so I was at my mom and dad's house and my mom was having a go at me and she was like when are you going to get back to the kids she just she doesn't understand how I can be a mother and have a career at the same time and she walked out and my grandma said do you like what you do and I said yeah I do and she goes don't listen to your mom and that for me it was a very short conversation but it was the first time I'd seen my very quiet compliant grandma who literally did everything by the book she's the first time she told me to break a rule like she would normally say you should listen to your mom listen to what your mom has to say but at 92 I saw the rebel in her and I was like really when I look back at all the women in my life I've never seen my grandma rebel and it's the first time I've seen her do something or say something contradictory and I imagine I kind of sat back and thought to myself how many times has she wanted to break the rules and not been able to and I suppose now I look back and I think I'm breaking all those rules for her and that's what I tell my daughter it's like you're going to get stuff wrong things are gonna go pear-shaped it's okay get it wrong it's fine rebel fight it's it's okay and on that note what do you believe your grandfather who came here yeah from from bangladesh and faced all of that adversity early on for a granddaughter who he had not yet met What do you think he would, what do you believe he would think of Nadia today?

1:42:54Oh gosh, if he was alive to see this, I think he, yeah, I think he'd be really, really proud. And I'd like to think, I hope it was worth it. Like, I think he'd think that it was worth it. You know, I don't know if you truly understand or fathom how inspirational you are. Probably not. No, I don't know. I don't think I do. I don't think you do. You know, there's one of my partners who I work with. He's Muslim. And he was telling me about how inspirational you are to him. Oh, wow. And what I found so interesting in that interaction is at the same time, my wife was telling me how inspirational you are to her.

1:43:53Yeah. And then at the same time, I was finishing up my research. I was thinking how inspirational you are to me. you know and i think it's it's um it's important for you to spend a moment in that reflection of just allowing me us to say thank you oh that's yeah yeah oh oh thank you thank you you know sit sit sit in that because there's there's there's thank you you know yeah thank you for what you've done what you've been through who you are where you're going you know there's so many of us that just want to say thank you you know so Nadia thank you you're welcome thank you thank you I I I just find it to be to to be so important for there's so many people that I meet that are changing the trajectory of the world you're in you are one of those people yeah and you probably don't feel like it no but it's important just to spend a moment in the appreciation of the love yeah I think you have I honestly I saw I think I don't I like you I can't fathom a massive responsibility but one that I believe that I believe God gave me it for a reason.

1:45:12I believe that it goes as far back as to when my granddad came here. Yes. This was it. Yeah. This was it. You were your grandfather's greatest dream realized. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I was his legacy. Yes. Yeah. Look at that. Yeah. Mad, isn't it? Insane. It's insane. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

1:45:44wow wow wow wow that was the first conversation i think we had to take a break and we stood up and stretched our feet a little bit and then sat right back down and got into it again so i've been in the television industry for now over 10 years in the uk and in the u.s and uh i've seen some terrible things. But I have not had the same lived experience that Nadia has had in her 10 years in the television industry. The multiple complaints that she talked about, the bullying, that's something that I've never, personally, I've never experienced. So I can't imagine how hard that is to step into a workplace, be told to perform, it's just the way it is, and have to face that?

1:46:37You know, you look at in these abusive relationships, what you often see is you see someone who targets someone else who has what? Low self-worth. Why? Because you have low self-worth, it means you have no boundaries. And we often apply that only to what? Romantic relationships. But it happens in the professional industry all the time. people a lot of talent who have low self-worth the reason why that they land on television or they land they get the music deal is because they have no boundaries and they're easy to be you could say managed or manipulated and this is exactly what happened to Nadia throughout her entire life she has been the person who stayed in the box she was the people pleaser she was as she said to her about her family is she was an asset to everyone but herself and at this this point in her career she's 40 years old she's been on television for 10 years she now for the first time is an asset to herself in every aspect of her life and this is what her grandfather always wanted.

1:48:00So you could see where we've ended where we started. Nadia Hussein's story is one of authenticity and the power of authenticity. Can you imagine this? Think about this. I came to the UK and I watched Nadia on my television make the most amazing foods. and now I'm going to go to her house and she's going to make that food and I'm going to eat every last bit of that food. I mean, I don't even need to do the podcast anymore. I'm done.