GK Barry: I’m Finally Ready To Tell My Story

29:19So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second, and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast.

29:30From what I understand is school was tough for you. Primary school was all right. Okay. Because, I mean, that was sort of, I fit straight in after, made friends. And then everyone at my primary school went to a secondary school. Okay. That I wasn't in catchment for. So I was the only one that went to Soham. Okay. And I remember, you know, the first assembly you ever have, and they read out schools and you put your hand up. I remember, I don't know why they do this, they went, Chiefly? And I put my hand up and everyone giggled and I was like, all right. That was hell. All right. So now, so that was the school that you had just come from?

30:15Yeah, so Chiefly's primary, Soam's secondary. Okay. So you're the only one from your school. Yeah. Now, why did people laugh at that? I don't know. I think it was just because it was my singular little hands and I had a really, I had a bob at the time. There was probably a lot going on there. And you didn't even do that. I did the finger, famously. It was the finger. That's why. Grace, that's why you did the finger. I don't know why I did that. Wow. So you started as different. Yeah. Yeah. And I was also, I would say, not generically good looking either. And I was quite weird. So automatically, I mean, I was just sort of asking for it there, really to have a tough time.

31:00Okay. Can we talk about body image? Yeah. You know, it wasn't until this podcast, talking to so many incredible women, that I fully could understand and begin to appreciate the, unfortunately, the value that society places on looks disproportionately for young girls. right because when I was coming up like quite honestly I wasn't thinking about how I looked how my friends looked but I realized now that was privilege in this patriarchal society. You were never thinking about not once crazy not once yeah now I see it's interesting it could be generational as well because my oldest is 15 and he's begun to like really yeah take care of himself in terms of physically, but honestly, like, maybe by the time I was 18 or 17, I started thinking about it.

32:03So you were ultra conscious of this. Yeah. Little. And I was very skinny. I've always been very skinny when I was younger. So skinny. And I remember that was like, it was just sort of my thing. I was really skinny. I was really proud of it because everyone at that time it was Kate Moss, Cara Delevingne, Paris Hilton and it was the skinny era and I was like right this is how I'm gonna fit in here because I'm thin but then it sort of also turned into I've never really had much control in my life because at school it was never really properly fit into any type of group even up until now well, you know, our job isn't, you know, every day you have structure nine to five.

32:55I don't know where I'm going to be tomorrow, the next day. So the only thing that for me I could have control in was that I'll be the skinny one or I'll be the skinniest in the room. That's interesting. Yeah. So how did you achieve that? So, you know Tumblr? Yes. So back in the day, everyone had their own Tumblrs at school. I think you have to explain it because Tumblr is no longer there. No, it's not. People are probably like, what's Tumblr? Thank God, probably. So Tumblr's sort of like a, I don't know what it would be. I guess it's kind of like Instagram, but you're not posting your own pictures.

33:25You're reposting loads of others and you all have themes. Mine was a depressed Tumblr, obviously. And it was like black and white. And I started looking on there and there was this, I came across this page called Thinspo. And it was basically loads of people who were in very active eating disorders being like, I weigh this much, I've eaten this much, and this is how much I've lost. and I was like oh they're losing quite a lot so I then started reading all the thin spoon what other people were doing and I was like how can I follow this I started following it and then I'd also to give myself motivation so fucked up saying it but to give myself motivation I put on my tumblr loads of pictures of really really skinny girls so if I felt hungry I'd just go back and look at that and be like well you're not going to look like that if you have if you eat a Victoria sponge and that was, then at school I remember I wouldn't eat and then my mum clocked that my account, no money was going out of it for my school lunches.

34:31So I was like, of course I go. So I'd buy a panini and I'd give it to my mate and then it would go the opposite way. As soon as I came home or however long, it'd be ravenous. I would eat everything. I'd literally eat the whole fridge well. I was so angry and then I start again and I don't think I had an eating disorder I don't think it ever went that far and and and the desire was so that you could do what socially I think it was to be like accepted I think back then it was cool to be thin it was attractive to be thin and if I didn't have it face-wise or it was a bit weird at least I could have that because I'm thin and it felt like I could have that one up on if anyone was mean to me well I'm thinner which is really toxic but that was like my mindset so that's yeah that was the drive yeah that was the drive isn't so interesting when you reflect back I'm so stupid and yeah you you you look at the things that you did you had to sacrifice in order to socially be accepted yeah now do you believe that ultimately you were accepted socially no not then that was a waste of time but now yeah when I lost I lost a lot of weight, I'd say about two years ago, a lot.

36:01And I have never had that much, not from like people fancy me, but interest in me, or people checking on me and you look amazing, wow, you look incredible. I've never had so many compliments as when I was that thin. And I think people do treat you differently. and then from that I was like this this is it that is the way to be look at that yeah look at that and so this is within the last few years yeah you're saying okay so then would you say that even commercially yeah things were different for you yeah I'd say even down to more people were taking pictures of me or more there was more engagement on my staff like I think people were finding me a bit more attractive.

36:54They were like, what's happened to Chico? She's had a glow up. Like there was all this positive reinforcement on the fact that, and also I wasn't even big to have had this massive weight loss transition. Like I just became really, really thin, even though I was thin before. And it was just like, everyone started treating me differently. And that felt really good. Yeah. But now going back to you, um, in, um, in school, you said that despite you losing the weight, you still were not socially accepted. Yeah. And I was fuming at that. So I was doing everything, everything to try and be liked. Looking back, embarrassing levels.

37:35Okay.

37:39Lying, going up to a popular group of girls and be like, I just heard Sam said this about you. Sam hadn't said that. But I just wanted them to be like, oh, thank you for telling me. Do you know what I mean? I wanted to be able to get into their group. Like insane levels to be liked. Yeah. It's weird. But you feel like you were never accepted. No. Why do you say that? Because I know they were just taking the piss out of me. And there was one instance, oh my God, this keeps me up at night to this day, Paul. There was one instance where there was this girl and we were in the same form. And she was like, Grace, you know the cup song out of Pitch Perfect?

38:19She was like, Grace, I tell you what, why don't we post on each other's Facebook walls singing the cup song? So you post you singing it on my wall and then I'll post it on your wall. And I was like, oh, my God, I think she wants to be friends with me. So I'm going to do it. I did it. By the way, I can't sing. I did it. And I'm waiting. I'm waiting for her to post back. She doesn't post back. And it was just so everyone could take the piss out of me. and that was like the worst that was horror and that's when I clocked I was like they they just are taking the piss out of me um but didn't stop me still carried on trying you still still did it yeah you still did it yeah you know when you are ostracized like that you know and you're the only one you know where is your safe space well I had a best friend called Kim okay floated about but I'd say no one really sort of got us so it was just always me and Kim and she was also black as well so I think and we're in a very white school so people aren't really dealing with that people think I'm weird so we stuck together and she was my safe space you know what I love what you just said Yeah.

39:38You said she was also black. Yeah. Not that I'm black, but I meant in the sense of, don't, I am white. No, no, no. No, I'm going to give you the card. I'm going to say you can come over. I just meant. Grace, you can come over. No. You can come over. You can come over. Right to the cookout. What I meant was. You can come to the cookout. Just bring your. What I meant, she was black. So like in that school, no one's really given her time of day. And I was weird. And I was like, you know what? It's just us two, Queen. So, yeah, we just spent every day together. And that was, yeah, she was my ride or die.

40:20Because if I didn't have her, that would have been hell and horror. Yeah. Yeah. So here's a stat. One out of six school-aged children experience cyberbullying now. Yeah. So bullying. We'll put it in the bullying category. So you put yourself in that category then because that example that you just gave me, that was cyber bullying, the Facebook example. Yeah. Well, do you know what's difficult? I know I had a tough time at school and I would say that I was, but it wasn't, I wasn't getting shoved over in the hallways. I wasn't getting beaten up, I wasn't getting my head flushed down the toilet, but people were mean to me, especially online.

40:59And listen, don't get me wrong, I tried to give it back as well. I'm not an innocent bystander, but I wasn't to the level that they were treating me. And I think mine was like self-defence a little bit. Because on social media, you could say at the time they were tweeting horrible stuff about me or saying awful things, laughing at me, blah, blah. So it's like I'm going to have to think of something to say back to sort of defend myself. And that was the issue with social media because it doesn't stop at school. it carried on and I literally became addicted to my phone. I had to be seeing what everyone was tweeting.

41:35Really? Is it about me? So these were people in the school just tweeting crazy things about you. Like what? There was once a photo. I lost my virginity and the guy the next day told everyone I laid there like a dead fish. Well, there was this girl, wish her well in hell, and she posted this photo of like the ugliest fish I have ever seen in my entire life. It was collapsed. I also think it was dead. And she was like, guess who this looks like? Everyone's taking the piss in the comments. Or, you know, the sly little things where it's an indirect. Yes. All stuff like that. And you know it's about you and it's just constant.

42:19And they'll also then in group chats, they'll add you to a group chat and remove you so you can't say anything, but you can see everything they've said about you. That happened a lot. Yeah. Yeah. You don't consider that bullying? No, I don't know. I just think people, yeah. But I do think people are also very, they're just not nice when they're younger. Yeah. I think as well at my school, I don't think anyone was nice. I think that might just be school, but they're all our souls. Yeah, when I look at that, that's bullying. Yeah. I think with bullying, I think it's about the power dynamic, which is what really makes it bullying, and the fact that it is continuous.

43:05Yeah. So you are in that group, you are from a social standpoint or a strength standpoint, you're a minority. There's a majority. Any time a majority is inflicting pain on the minority, that's bullying. And then it's continuous. So that's bullying. Yeah. That's bullying. You know, but your response, though, is interesting because I can now – it's so interesting because I now see where G.K. Berry comes from. Okay. I see the roots. I think the roots are there. Yeah. I think the roots are in that moment of, you know what? You're going to do this to me. So I'm going to do what? I'm going to counter it with.

43:52I'm going to come back at you. That was my thing. I always had to one up or do something. Even down to, I was like, right, I'm not conventionally pretty, whatever. So I remember seeing Miranda Hart. Oh yeah, yeah. That's my bitch. I love that woman. And my parents bought me her box set of the Miranda show. Yes. And I sat, watched the entire thing, the whole bunch of series, and I learnt line for line everything. Because I knew everyone thought she was funny, right? And then I'd go back into school and I would just give some of the lines. Literally. I would literally give some of the lines, like such fun or like just the, just to be fair, I also galloped a bit like she did, but she, that was weird for me.

44:45She made that quite funny. But I was doing stuff that she would do that I knew people laughed at and it also then also got laughs. So then I was like, right, this is a way in is to be funny. And that did work. That blows my mind. The fact that you didn't even like attribute it to her, you would just drop a line. Just here and there, a bit of such fun. Or like anything random that she'd said, I would just drop it in convo. And I remember it would get laughs. And I was like, yeah, this is how to get people to like you. Yeah. Where did the self-deprecation start? Was it there? That was school, yeah.

45:25That was school. OK. Because it was straight away, you've got no ass. You've got no tits. You've got weird teeth. You've got a massive nose. You look weird. Your posture's weird. So I would then say it before anyone else could say it. As soon as I'd walk into a room, like, sorry, my ass lets flatten this. Because then they wouldn't say it because I've already, what's the point? I've already done it and I've already made a joke out of it. Right. So you've got to think of something else. And also, it does get the most laughs. Self-deprecation, really, like people love that. And I kind of love it too.

46:02You love it. Do you love, what did you start to love about it though? Because you're poking fun at yourself. Everyone who's laughing, they're laughing at the joke. Sort of agreeing. They're sort of agreeing. Yeah. What was it that made you? I just think it was people laughing. I was like, oh, well, I'm obviously not going to stand up here and do a knock knock joke. So let me just do something that's about me. And also I think I was quite used to being laughed at anyway. just because of how I looked. So for me, if I can make it first and they still laugh, then it's like I've taken back that power.

46:38You're laughing because of me, not because... Does that make sense? Because you've said it about me. Yes. I don't know if that makes sense. No, it does. Yeah. It does. It does. Can we explore something you've now said multiple times? And that is, I wasn't conventionally pretty. I didn't look good. Horror. All right, let's go there. No, Paul, horror. Let's go there. Okay. So you are how old at this time? I'm going to say this would have started year seven, year eight, so like 11. 11, okay, so 11, 12, where I think a lot of people are beginning to form their identity. Yeah. So visually, how did you view yourself?

47:27Slender man. very tall, lanky and I'm hunched because all the boys are shorter than me and I'm like well I'm not going to sit here and tower over them that's weird at the time I thought it was weird now I think that's quite cool and then I've got this Victoria Beckham haircut short at the back long at the front crazy teeth my mum used to call me gravestone did she really? pale, yeah pale, pale skin extremely pale you can see my veins Hairy arms, hairy legs, because to be honest with you, it was quite a long shave of my legs, they were so long. Just everything about greasy hair, because to be honest with you, I was just, didn't really look after myself that much.

48:10So I looked like a hot mess. And I was so aware of that. So, and there was also nothing I could really do about it. Because that was just how I was built. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay, so your identity was that you didn't feel like you were attractive at all. No, and no one made me feel attractive at all. It was like I felt it, but also everyone else felt it. How so? It was like people, you know, people would come up to someone at school and be like, oh, they have a crush on you, but they're taking the piss because you're really ugly. that or people would make comments about my teeth or the way I looked or just everything so it was just sort of confirmed to me that yeah you are a mess which is great what about at home were you told that you were pretty or were you told that you were you know that you looked good my dad dad andrew he is always like you are so gorgeous like you're this gorgeous girl like you're so cute he but it's my dad so like i could literally have my head chopped off and he'd be like oh you look so good you know i know he'd say that anyway and me and mom me and mom banter each other because she was built the same way.

49:40So we both have no arse, I had gravestone teeth. Like, yeah, it was just sort of a thing that we all laughed at. But I don't think it was my parents that drilled it into me, but also my parents, we just didn't really speak about it. Like, I never was like, I'm really self-conscious because my parents would be like, people are dying, get on with that. Do you know what I mean? Right. So all these challenges, these issues, they were little in your mind compared to bigger issues in the world. Yeah. I think it's obviously it was big for me, but I wasn't going to go to my parents about it because that just felt really stupid.

50:23Even now, I think if I was like, Mom, I feel ugly, I think she'd be like, OK, why are you telling me? Why are you telling me? Yeah. How do you feel about yourself today? I feel a bit more confident today. I've got a glam team, so that does actually really help. But I think it's mainly Ella. I think Ella really gives me a lot of confidence. I will walk into a room looking like disheveled Hagrid. She's like, oh, you look really nice today. What? But I think because I only really care about what she thinks, then I feel quite confident. I think if I was single, it would be very different. Yeah. Before Ella, it was like that.

51:00That underscores the power of love. Yeah. Like all the time. Like you get it from that person that you love. Yeah. But it's interesting. So you don't consider yourself compelling physically today? I think I'm more compelling. I think I like how long my legs are now. I don't really care about my nose. My mouth I could work on. It's a bit of a weird shape. But I'm not too obsessed about anything. I wouldn't get any work done. If you asked me that 10 years ago, I would absolutely get everything done. Whereas now I'm just very set on this is just what I look like. I don't really care. Interesting.

51:40You know, my wife and I were watching the Netflix show Missing You. Yeah. We were watching Missing You. And we're watching it. We're watching it. And the scene comes on. and we both said I think what's great about myself and my wife is that we both talk about someone's beauty you know openly with no jealousy and we said this is one of the most beautiful women we have ever seen was that by me? it was you what the hell? we didn't know it was you no way I swear we did not know it was you and so the scene you know the scene because it's oh because i'm like moisturizing me toes yeah there's like blank there's like sheets yeah and all kinds of things and um and we said uh i was like we gotta find out who this is oh my god real story i needed that poll real story thank you real story yeah yeah it was i was like oh my gosh look who it is what the hell yes Yes, yes.

52:54So that's why I find it, I always find it interesting how someone views, how you view yourself. I don't think anyone is like, yeah, I am 1010. I really don't believe anyone thinks that. I bet you Ella does. What about herself? No, you. Oh. Oh, you're saying self. About, yeah, about self. Oh, no, unfortunately. Some people do. The ego talks. A lot of people are like, you know, a matter of fact, I think a lot of guys, unfortunately, they over, I think this is a gender difference. I think because, you know, and I know this from studying relationships is that most men overvalue themselves in terms of how they look, how, you know, what they bring to the table.

53:47most women undervalue themselves. And I find that to be like almost 100 % of the time. People don't like a confident woman. It is intimidating to many people. I think more men. I think when I've ever met a confident woman, I'm like, wow, like that is so cool. Especially if I walk into a room that's... Catherine Ryan. Yes, yes. I think her energy is incredible. When she walks into a room, she has all the men like that, just ready to listen to her. But I think when sometimes a man sees that, they get on the defense and they start not being very nice. Yes. So. Yes. Yeah, very much so. I agree. I agree.

54:33So what did you aspire to be when you were in school? Nothing. I've never, ever in my life known what I wanted to do. Never. I've never looked at a career and gone, apart from I wanted to be a pussy. cat doll but obviously that wasn't going to happen because I can't sing but that was the only time I was like yes but I've never when I was looking at colleges what to do at college I wasn't looking at a future job I was looking at what sounds fun what's the easiest thing to do and that's to be honest how I've done my whole that was it life yeah so what was what excited you then in school Boys at the time, I would say.

55:17Attention, just to sort of... At school, I was just like, I feel like I'm winning if I've got a boy's attention, which is hilarious now because I couldn't give a shit. But back then, that was how all the popular girls always had a boyfriend or someone that was into them. So I was like, right, I need a boyfriend, and that was my mission. That was it? Yeah. That was it. You were like, if I can get a boyfriend, then... People are going to think I'm actually really cool and attractive because I've got a boyfriend. Okay. That was what I went to school for. All right. So you got one? Yeah, I did. I got a few.

55:55Got a few? Yeah. Okay. How'd that go? Awful. Like, they were... One had a lot more gum than tooth. My first one, very unhygienic. Awful. Second one said I laid there like a dead fish, but he had problems at home. Other one lived in a hostel, had half a tooth, used to deal drugs. And then another one went to jail for 21 counts of assault, had a baby he didn't speak to. Wow. Yeah. Wow. That's okay. That's a resume. And for me, I was like, this is great. He's a great man. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh, my God. Okay. So it was just to have anyone, just to have someone. Yeah. And the bar was on the floor, obviously.

56:39because I was going for felons. But like I just thought anyone I can get I'll take just to reaffirm that I'm attractive. Look at that. Yeah. We've talked about your parents quite a bit. So as their relationship evolved, right, and you saw their love blossom, what would you say your biggest takeaway was at that time around a relationship and around love? I feel like I understood what pressures would get to a relationship, like what to look out for, money, or other people's input from the outside. I learned what caused arguments, but I also learned a communication where they might shout at each other, but then after that, they're speaking it out, and they're making up.

57:33That was one thing, making up a lot of people don't make up they just sort of push it under the carpet yes yes i used to be guilty of that as well because i used to think oh we'll just whatever we'll forget about it but seeing my parents they always make up and i think that's really important because then nothing builds it's just a clean slate and i think me and ella do that although i'm really stubborn okay yeah i can see i believe you are thank you i guess from from meeting ella and seeing you two your dynamic real quick is I could tell you're the stubborn one. Oh, so I'm so stubborn. Don't get it wrong.

58:07She's also stubborn. Let's not get that twisted. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm more, it would kill me to say sorry first. Really? I do it sometimes when I really know I fucked up. Okay. But it would, it really would kill me. To say I'm sorry. Because I just feel like, oh, embarrassed. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Grace, can I give you a surprise? Yeah, always. All right, you have to close your eyes. Okay. All right, you got to trust me on this. God. Trust me on this. All right, here it comes. Here it comes. Ready? God, what is it? And open up. Oh. If you could give that a read. I feel like I'm being invited to Buckingham Palace.

58:49I love this. It's like a thick envelope as well. It's a very good, very heavy count letter. Oh God, except for my parents. I'm terrified. Right. I'm going to read it out. Please. Okay. When Grace first started on her venture to become one of the most funny, talented and hugely popular influencers of today, we wondered what route this journey would take. we need not have had any concerns. Grace has always been a strong character and even from the very early days in university and working she showed commitment, hard work, determination, such work ethics that continue with her very much so today.

59:31It therefore comes as no surprise to us that her ever-rising popularity and entertaining humour has brought her to this exciting chapter of her life. Needless to say, we are extremely proud of you, Grace, and who you have become. Long may many chapters be added to this one. Love, mum and dad. Did they actually write that? Yes, they did. How did you manage that? We're good. That's crazy, Paul. That is so cute. What stands out to you the most in that letter? Do you know what? I mean, they've always said I've been quite a strong character. and I know I've always had quite a good work ethic. But it's quite funny that it's no surprise to them that I ended up here.

1:00:22I find that quite funny because, I don't know, I think for a while they were actually a bit terrified that, like, what was I going to do? But it's nice to know that they're happy with that. Yes. Thanks for saying you're proud. My dad does say that all the time, but my mum, you have to really poke that out of. That's the part that stood out to me the most. Yeah. There's something when I think a parent says that. Yeah. Because you know they mean it. Yeah, they wouldn't lie. Yeah. Yeah. That is really cute. Yeah, I love it. I'll hold on to that. Oh, yeah. And then I'll give that back to you. Do you want me to put it back in the envelope?

1:01:05Oh, yeah. Thank you so much. so so now oh oh god i can't put it back no worries no worries so so you you said that you didn't think that they were confident in your career absolutely not i would hand on heart say that i think they'd agree so they they were concerned yeah and this is when you what started tiktok in particular this was even before really this was college pre-uni i didn't ever wanted to go to uni but my dad was like you're going to uni you are not staying in soham okay you were going regardless of regard so i knew when i started college i had to do an extra year to get my maths gcse um so then i could actually go to college okay and so i was like right i'm gonna go to you i don't know what i'm gonna do but i'm gonna go to uni and luckily i found a filmmaking course but i didn't really care i just thought it would be easy and then started uni started doing TikTok my parents had not they still don't really understand it they were like okay well you need a backup and I was like all right I'll do a master's then so I did a master's oh wow okay and then um was working at Costa the whole time and then one day I was like you know what I can't film HelloFresh on my 12-hour shift I'm gonna quit even though I'm making no money I'm gonna quit mom nearly dropped dead she was like i trust you but if this doesn't work out you need to get another job straight away and thank god it worked out it sure did yeah it sure did so so let's let's unpack the career aspect yeah because i think this is where most people know you from you know i was talking to a friend of mine coming over here this morning yeah and i was like you know gk berry he's like yeah of course I said when did you first hear about her when did you first know about her he said gosh I don't know you know it was one of those words I feel like you have such a unique career because I believe if I were to do a study I love a good study I think that your notoriety is significant I've been a lot of firsts for things you've been a lot of first you have been a lot of firsts.

1:03:21Yeah. But I think it was TikTok in particular that took you to the top. So why and when did you start TikTok? So it was March, the lockdown. As soon as we went into lockdown. It was COVID. Yeah. And I remember. That was yesterday. I know. You're telling me. Are you serious? Yes. This is what you started. Yeah. No. So it was literally March. As soon as we were like, stay at home, save lives. I was staying at home, saving lives. Yeah. I was like, you don't have to tell me twice. So I was at home and I, it sounds funny, but it's not funny. I genuinely thought we were all going to die, right? I was so, health anxiety.

1:04:01I was like, look, if I'm going to die, I need to leave something for like the next, you know how dinosaurs have bones? I was like, I need to leave something, right? For the next people. Like Cleopatra in her tomb. I was like, I need something. So I was like, right, there's this new app called TikTok. I've just seen people dancing on it. I'm going to download it. And do you know what? I'm just going to say a really embarrassing story. Or my first video, actually, no, it was a bloke running past my window. And I said, I didn't know there was a hunk in the neighbourhood. I'm getting my gym gear on.

1:04:38I'm going on a fucking run. Like that blew up. And I was like, okay, that's really cool. So I thought, I'll try my luck. I'm going to say a really embarrassing story of something that happened to me because one thing my mum has given me is the ability to tell a story. Okay. I did it, went viral again. And by August, I got 100k. Followers, just on TikTok? Just on TikTok. Instagram wasn't really a thing, it was just TikTok. And then I was like, okay I'm just gonna keep going and see where this is and at that point as well TikTok wasn't a job no one was making money from it it was so new and there was a handful of us creators that had just come up okay and then we all became friends and and then yeah by I'd say a year I'd hit a million it was really really quickly in one year yeah and do you know what a memory I really that stands out we came out of COVID, like we came out of the lockdown and I went to my local car to get Prosecco, obviously.

1:05:47And the woman was like, oh my God. And obviously I've been inside. I've seen the number of people following me, but it hadn't... You have not interacted. So I'm thinking someone's nicked something. She's going, you're GK Barry. And I was like, it felt like something out of a film. And then her other co-worker came over and was like, oh my God, I love your TikToks. and I was literally like, I don't know what's going on. I walked back to my car. Someone else has now said it. And then I've driven home and I'm like, what has just happened? We have to go back to that moment because, see, now I've met Grace.

1:06:24Yeah. And I know how tough school was for Grace. I know how hard she was working to get the laugh. Yeah. I know how ostracized she was. Oh, my God, it was pivotal. I know how unpopular Grace was. Yeah. So now to come out of lockdown, to have three people immediately. Immediately, yeah. What does that or what did it feel like? It was incredible because they were coming up to me and saying, I love your video. You are so funny. And it felt like I had been waiting. Obviously, my friends thought I was funny because they're only human. But to have a stranger, that to me was like, I've done it. That was genuinely, I skipped back to my car.

1:07:08I was so happy. Yeah. And I feel like I chase that feeling constantly since then. So that was a high. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And at that point too, you can't monetize. No, it just wasn't a thing. So you were doing it literally for, I don't want to belittle it, but like the attention of it. No, that absolutely is what it was. Yeah, how it made you feel. And also I then built a community at that time of people that were like me. So when I was posting, I was posting no makeup, really bad skin, hair in a bun, because I knew that made a story funnier. If you look like shit and tell a story, it's funnier.

1:07:49I don't know what the science is, but it's there. So for me, everyone who was watching me was like, I had the same thing, I did the same thing. And it was like I just built a community of people that were like me. And I'd searched for that for a very long time. That's so interesting. And then, so now tell me about the GK Barry persona, because I feel like you're talking about it here. Take off makeup, although that is you, but to intentionally say I'm going to do it in a certain way, you're starting to build a persona. The more I look bad, the more I feel like I look quite ugly, the more GK Barry's coming out.

1:08:30to like overcompensate for that. So that's where it sort of came from. Okay. Especially when I started, I knew stories are funnier if you look like shit, but also if you've got a bit of an accent that's strong. So like I remember at the time people found people on Only Way As Essex really funny. Yes. So I was just forcing an Essex accent during my early, please don't find those videos, during those early times. And it worked. Video right here. There it is. There it is. But it worked. Everyone thought it was hilarious. And they were, I started my videos of guys like that, really over the top. And it became a thing.

1:09:10Everyone would be like, guys, like taking the piss out of the way I talk, but in a funny way. And I was like, this is how you do it. This is how you get views. And I just stuck with that. And then it got to a point where I was like, when do I speak normally? Do you know what I mean? Like, when do I come out of that? Because everyone loves this persona. Yeah. Right, that's created. And I have to put, whenever anyone comes up to me, I will absolutely put it on. Because also I don't want anyone to be disappointed. So I... Once, it was my granddad's funeral, may he rest, this guy was holding his coffin.

1:09:48He's gone, can I get a picture of you? I've gone, yeah. But I thought, that feels unprofessional. uh yeah yeah sorry to get that out there yeah but but i can understand yeah that there's this like this high interest in you but i guess what i want to understand though is how do you feel knowing that the interest is of you but not of you you know what i mean it's it's of because Because it's not like I think GK Barry is not this far reach from who you are. It feels like it's characteristics that you have that are just exaggerated. Exaggerated, yeah. But it's not you day to day. I quite like it in the fact that it feels like I have a bit of me when I'm at home.

1:10:40And I've got an independence that no one really knows about. and I can separate then work and not work. Do you know what I mean? That gives me a bit away. But when things go wrong or people have a negative opinion on me based on GK Barry, I get really pissed off because I'm like, if you knew... A lot of people think that I'd be the first one in an argument to absolutely give it some or I'd start an argument or anything. the idea of an argument is my worst I can't I can't do confrontation it makes me literally want to be sick like I literally I'm the least from that but if you looked at GK Barry you'd think you could go up to her and give it to her because she'd give it back sure sure which is not the case so that that sometimes gets annoying for me yeah yeah so then with TikTok at what point did you monetize it?

1:11:39Because I would imagine that's when the career really took off. I, so my manager, who's now my manager, but she's a crazy ginger woman, sends me a message and she goes, look, I either want to be your mate or your manager. I've never managed anyone. I don't even know what it's a grip, but I want you to be the first. so i thought well i'm working at costa and this is so august i reached uh 100k so like a year and a bit now we're in like november okay um she's messaged me that and i've gone right okay had a meet my first meeting with her she was getting a bouncy blow drive a facetime and i thought this is this is my kind of woman exactly this is right yeah she gets it so unprofessional but we both didn't know what we were doing at the time she had like three clients at HLD at the time.

1:12:33Okay. Can I even ask too, why did she message you? What was it about you that she... She saw one of my TikToks and it was a really, really crude one. It was me in the mirror pretending to give it someone going, your breath stinks and so does your pussy. And then they walk in and I'm like, hi, how are you? Like pretending, you know, that I wasn't going to say all that. Yes. And she said, that's you are me in a younger form. And I think you're hilarious. So, and when I met her, we got on like a house on fire and she was very on it. One thing about Hannah, she's always been very honest. She's like, I don't know if I can make you any money because I've never done this before, but I'm going to give it a go.

1:13:13So I was like, okay. I then quit Costa, I'd say in December, so November, December. Without having made anything? I'd say I made about 50 quid. Okay. All right. So you're already... On like one ad, which wasn't really an ad, I think it was like a leg in. They were like, can you just promote a leg in? And I was like, okay, I'll promote some leg in. And you're paying, you know what, why did I think, you're saying literally 50. 50 pounds. 50 great British pounds. Not 50 grand. Yes, that was the case. I'd have left Costa straight away. Okay, you paid 50 pounds. 50 pounds. Okay. Yeah. But you were willing to, at that point, still quit.

1:13:59I was just like, do you know what? Love Costa, love a cappuccino, but I just really want to commit to this. This is fun. Okay. Oh, and also you're living at home. I'm living at home. So you have the support. So there's no, like, stress of how am I going to pay my rent? Okay. My mom and dad are. So I had that ability to be like, do you know what? I'm just going to go hell for leather and post loads and loads. and I'd say it took about nine months for me to then have made a bit of money where I'm like, this is paying off. And then it went from there. Okay. So what was the first project outside of a TikTok sponsored thing?

1:14:45As in like my podcast? Right, or like podcast or event that happened outside of TikTok where you were paid, where you saw the promise of a career outside of TikTok. I would say it was more when brands were reaching out and going, we'll pay you this to do a 30 second TikTok. And I was like, right. And you don't want me to do anything else. I said, OK. so now I'm getting and I'm doing everything at this point because I've seen money and I'm like I'm taking everything so I'm doing every ad under the sun and I'm making money and it feels incredible but I'm also at uni so like I'm trying to balance that but now I'm getting invited to events with like Molly May and I'm seeing how Molly May lives and I'm like I have to live like that and And then I got offered my podcast.

1:15:44Okay. And from that, after the first week it came out, I was like, okay, this is it. This is the career. This is it. The start anyway. Interesting. And did your parents believe that there was a career there? No. They were like, and what are you going to do just quickly when this doesn't work? They were like, what are you doing? You're talking on the internet. And also I'd ban them from watching my stuff. Did you? I said, look, if you love me, just don't watch what I post. Just take the benefits of it because I'm talking about some dreadful stuff on there that you will not want to know about. Wow.

1:16:19OK. So and they were like, all right, whatever. And they just left me to it. And you did it. So then from the podcast, which has been incredibly popular and successful, what was the next move? Or really, I guess, what was the first television project? Because I think with TV, what's so interesting is that I always say that at the end of the day, 10 years ago plus, everyone wanted to get onto TV. It was like, let me be online to get onto TV. Now it's, let me get onto TV so I could online. Yeah. So you were online. Yeah. But then TV, I think, becomes a credibility play. Right. It's not about the money because there's no money in TV.

1:17:02There you go. There's none. There is something about being on TV that is that's like my dream. So Hannah had said to me, look, I think we should just try for any bit of telly. Like, I think you are perfect for it and we can help you. and I can't tell you how many meetings we had with commissioners or like just anyone, Channel 4, anyone that would just put me on anything, please, like this is what I want to do. Everyone, absolutely not, no chance. Why do you think they said no? Because I was a TikToker and they said to me, they said we don't have TikTokers on TV, that's not a thing. Then I started my podcast.

1:17:43All of a sudden I'm a podcast host. The doors opened a bit. Different, yeah. Right? So now they're like, okay, we'll pitch you as a podcast host. And the first show I ever did was Stand Up to Cancer, and it was Don't Look Down, where we went and lived in Austria to learn how to high wire walk to high wire walk across West Ham. And that then was, I would say, like the beginning of people from telly being like, oh, she's actually all right on telly. and then obviously I did a bit of Loose Women but I wasn't a panelist like I am now I just as a guest because I was rumored for Strictly oh okay so come on so we can talk about Strictly I'm like yeah yeah and then they invite me back and then I get I'm a celeb and then from there I think it's just sort of and then yeah yeah yeah so then with I'm a celeb I think that is I didn't realized until living here for a while that that is, I think, that's like the crowning show, I believe.

1:18:49It's like you get on to I'm a Celeb, you are considered it. And then from there, you can kind of command whatever you want. So once you got on, what are not only you feeling and thinking about who you are in terms of your career, but also what are your parents thinking? I thought I was the charity hire because, to be honest, I was. Like, when I got... There's a story. Well, first of all, I was like, shit, I've got to do the plane ride. But then when I got over that, I remember I was out there and I was in holding. And my parents, by the way, were ecstatic. They knew this was mega. Yes. They got it.

1:19:32Yeah. They were like... If anything, they overdid it. They were like, you're going to get paps at your door, Grace. I was like, let's be calmed down. Okay, it's not that big. so I remember everyone's so excited for me I'm sort of still in denial about it because I'm very stressed about what this show is and what I'm going to have to do so I'm in fight or flight and I'm currently in flight right so I'm in holding and my hair I just needed a bouncy blow so I was like listen I need you to take me to the hairdressers I've got no phone or anything right takes me to the hairdressers and he's like, one minute, I'm literally just going to go take a call.

1:20:12I'm like, no problem. I pull this hairdresser and I say, you need to give me your phone because I'm going on I'm a celebrity and I just need to see my announcement post because I need to see if people like or hate me. Oh, wow. She's like, no way, babe, of course she can. Fuck it, amazing. She's doing my hair. I'm scrolling now through my post. Every single comment, who? Who is this? Who? You know, like the usual, because I'm a social media person and if you don't follow me, you won't know. Yes. So it was very negative. Apart from people who knew me, it was very, very negative. So I went in, like I have absolutely nothing to lose.

1:20:46No one likes me already. No one knows who I am. So what will be will be. And I think that actually helped seeing that. When you saw that, do you get like the same feeling that you had back at school again? Like it's me against everyone? Yeah, it was just like, oh, I have to prove myself again. And also I'm very aware that this is a very different audience that aren't, they're not my age. I'm very crude. A little bit. Thank you. But, you know, I'm very, my mouth will get me in trouble a lot because I can never read the line between speaking to someone who's a bit older than me and not. So I was quite worried about that.

1:21:31And, yeah, I just went in and was like, I'm terrified. I was so, so, I've never been that scared of my life, even to this day. Wow. And then I just did it. And when the rev came in, I could relax a bit. But that was, yeah, one of the most terrifying. And also, I didn't know what people were thinking about me on the... And I was starting to get voted for trials, and I thought, this is either great or awful. So then when you come off of I'm a Celeb and you start to see what the news was, what's your impression of what you saw? Gobsmacked because it was like I turned on my phone and everyone liked me.

1:22:08And I wasn't even putting on GK Barry. Right. Like everyone was like, you did amazing. Or like even stuff I didn't know was in there, like talking about coming out or talking about how awful my skin was in there and I didn't really care. it was somehow managed to impact people and I didn't realize that for me was like wow like the power of this show is insane yes yes do you did you ever think like I wonder if all of these people at school watch this like I knew oh you knew because I would if someone from my school went on I'm a Celebrity, I'd be sat every night like, let's go. Like, I need to watch this.

1:22:55So, yeah, I would assume that they did. And they probably got the shock of their lives with the state of me in there, yellow hair, acne. But, yeah, I'm hoping that maybe when they saw that as well, I don't know. Like, I'm hoping maybe they were like, oh, she's actually all right. Not me still wanting their approval, but I was, yeah. Yeah, but you do, it sounds like. You would have hoped that they were, yeah. Yeah, but I think that was the best thing that could have happened to me. Yes. Was that whole show. Yes. We have a lot of big conversations on this show, and yes, they sometimes get challenging, but they're always worth having.

1:23:39So let me ask you this. Is perfection getting in the way of your piece? If so, it might be time to take off the pressure and add some ease to your routine. For me, ease looks like getting in my essential nutrients and vitamins with our sponsor, Huell's Black Edition Powder. It's not a protein shake. It's a complete meal in just two scoops. With 40 grams of protein, high fiber, 26 essential vitamins and minerals, no intense meal prep or cooking needed. In an ideal world, we'd all be operating at 100%, 100 % of the time. But I know that's not how it goes. And if you're being honest with yourself, so do you.

1:24:16Having Huel as my backup in my kitchen makes for an easier choice on those tough days. It's nutritious, and it doesn't make you less ambitious. It just means you're human, just like everyone else I speak to on this couch. To try Huel for yourself, use code WNTT to get 10 pounds off at uk.huel.com slash WNTT. From a career standpoint, where do you go from now? I mean, obviously, I know that you have a book coming out, right? And I think this is great because it unpacks your life. But how would you characterize the book? What does that mean? Or how would you describe the book? The book is... Because I've been offered to do books before, and I was always like, no, I've got nothing to say.

1:25:09so when they finally came to me I was like right if I'm going to do a book I need to make it so open and honest things I haven't said before but I need to make sure the book my I've got a very young audience and I want to make sure if they read it they take something from it I want to make sure people take something from it I didn't want it to be like a stupid I mean it's a bit stupid some of the chapters but you know just a stupid book that you read and that's it yes I wanted to make sure there is stuff in there that I could really give to others if that makes sense yes it does so now is is the time you think to be able to yeah I think because I'm I don't feel like I fully always said everything because I've been very scared of what people are gonna the common theme what people are gonna think but now I feel like I'm sort of I've just passed that and I feel like I've seen other people and that they literally put all of their shit on the table and it will help at least one person and it's like that is incredible that you can do that yes and I would like to be able because unfortunately people do look up to me some people do and I do feel that pressure a little bit so I'd like to be able to give something to those people yes yes so now i know there's a story there is a story and i was you know and this is this is this is probably the worst way to segue into the story but well it's not a good way so yeah yeah i i i i can't believe that i'm no longer shocked about these stories.

1:26:55Yeah. I was originally, but now that I've educated myself and I've removed myself from ignorance, I'm no longer. Yeah. You know, but it doesn't take away the pain, you know, of being aware of it. But as much of the story that you'd like to tell, I think it's a very important one. Yeah. And I think it will truly not only help, but it could save lives. Yeah. Well, this is the only podcast that I will talk about it on because I'm happy to go into it with you. All the rest of them, I could just read the book. But so when I was at college, so after school, college, you had to do work experience to pass that specific course, right?

1:27:45Okay. And I was like, I don't read. I'm doing media. so I'm just going to do something sort of related to that. Anyway, I found one and put in my CV and the guy there, he was about 27, he was quite attractive, really friendly and he was like, okay, give me your number, blah, blah. And now I've got work experience with him. I'm 17 at the time so I've got a car but I can't drive it. So my parents are both working and he says, I tell you what, why don't I just pick you up? I'm like, yeah, that's fine, whatever. So he picks me up and we've also been texting a little bit since prior to this. He's being a little bit flirty, but he's an older guy.

1:28:35So for me, I was like, okay, this is probably normal. It's quite cool that an older guy is taking interest in me. And I can't remember if it was on the way to work experience or the way, but I want to say it was the way back from my first day. He was like, yeah, we're going to go to the park. Sorry. I can't wait. I was there. Okay. Take your time with it. Okay. Right. He was like, we're going to go to the park. And I immediately knew what that meant. Even though he didn't have to say it, I was like, oh, okay. and I was like trying to make sort of excuses to be like oh like you know you can just drop me home it's fine he was like no no we're gonna go to the park I was like all right and I remember on the journey I was like please let there be someone in the park because if there's someone in there he'll probably just give up and be like let's go home well there was no one in the park so anyway I ended up having to do stuff to him in the park and then he dropped me home and then I was like right well I've still got a week left and if I don't go back I'm not going to pass my course I'm not going to get to uni all these things going on in my head so I right, just get your shit together and go.

1:30:11And that was the only thing that happened for the start of that week. And then it got to the last day and he didn't, on that day, he didn't pick me up or drop me off. My mum did and went to station, it was all fine. And then it got to a point where all, and it was only men that worked there. he went you guys can go to the other people and I was like oh god because at the place where I did it you lock the door when you leave it's never open so I knew when they left the door was locked right and I was like okay maybe this will be fine and then he says this room's got no cameras I was like okay He said, yeah, come in the room.

1:31:05So I was like, right, okay. And then basically he raped me in there. And then afterwards, I remember there was a toilet right next door. And I was like, I'm just going to quickly go to the toilet. And I was wearing white jeans and a long, um like grey coat sorry

1:31:32and I put on my coat which was long and I just wrapped it around me um and then my mum came and picked me up so I was like right I'm just not going to say anything I said thank you for the work experience and I said thank you and then I left and then I put my trousers in the washing bin and my mum was like what has happened to your trousers and I was like oh I've just started my period then I didn't say anything for however long now I'm back at college and my tutors come over to me and gone oh so and so is going to do work experience at that place and I'm in like a catch 22 of I haven't told anyone and I was very happy to not tell anyone but now I feel like I need to so I said to her look without going into detail something inappropriate happened to me there she got the gist of it anyway she said right well because you're under 18 we need to call the police and you need to tell your mum the mum part was I was like no there's there's absolutely no way that you cannot we don't talk about sex.

1:32:48We don't talk about anything. We're very certain, like, we don't do that. Well, I had to do it. And I remember they called her in and we're sat in the, just me and my mum sat in the canteen. There's still people sat around. They were doing after school things. And I've had to tell her. And she's just been like, what? I don't understand. Like, I've taken you there. And you know, why haven't you told me? I'm like, more in shock, I think. Anyway, then we go in, speak to the college about it. The police say they'll get back, whatever. And then I think about a week after this woman came in from the police and said, do you want to sit in my unmarked car so we can just have a conversation?

1:33:36I was like, yep, cool. and she just says look because it was so long ago you didn't report it and you were honest and said you flirted with him at the start there's just no point reporting it I think you'd just be best to leave it it's your choice but I just if I was you I wouldn't I was like all right that's fair fair enough I won't then and I got out the car and And then I just didn't speak to anyone about it for about five or six years. I've never spoken to my mum about it again. I don't know if my dad really knows. The only time is when I was writing this book and I called her to say, I feel like it's important to add this in.

1:34:19Can I? And she was like, yeah, you can do what you want. I think it's important too. But we haven't spoken about it. We haven't talked about it. Yeah. Yeah. First thing is thank you for sharing that. And I have so many thoughts. I have so many thoughts. And we can stay on the topic as long or as short as you want. I think the most important thing to underscore, because I heard you mention what that police officer said, why you shouldn't report it because you were flirting. I think it's very important to underscore flirting is not consent. Yeah. Silence is not consent. Mm-hmm. Complying to something because they have removed your options.

1:35:16Yeah. The perpetrator has not given you any options and you have to comply. Yeah, it's not. That's not consent. Yeah, but I think that's why I didn't for so long because I went years being like, that was just my fault. The best thing I did was actually tell someone. it was like my best friend at the time I just said it and as soon as I said it I was like oh I feel so good that I've just shared that with someone yes I was so scared about her reaction because I thought she'd be like yeah why did you why did you do that but straight away she was like he was your boss and knew you couldn't say no right and also 27 and 17 is a very weird age dynamic and sort of confirmed to me like no that wasn't your fault and then it took me it's been what it's been like 10 years now but it's taken me this long to fully be like no that was actually really wrong yes but it took me a very long time do you and and do you understand none of that was your fault do you yeah you do okay i don't know i get a bit nervous sometimes No, I think that's incredibly important because none of it was.

1:36:37Yeah. None of it was. And I just want you to know that none of it was. Yeah. And you're incredibly brave to share the story. Yeah. And there are going to be many people who hear it. Yeah. That's what I'm scared of. And they are going to feel seen. Yeah. They're going to feel heard. Right. I, you know, these are statistics that are horrible to have to say, but one in four women have been raped or sexually assaulted. Six in, this is what blows me away, six in seven of these cases are women who have been assaulted by men they know. it's and but that's the thing right is when i the reason i wanted to write this is because when i thought of rape i thought it was a man jumping out at you in a dark alley and like aggressively tackling you to the floor and raping you that's what i thought was rape and when it came to someone that i had i had known and was has started off nice to me that's when I was like I don't is it I just got confused by that because I'd never also been taught that you don't you don't get taught that especially when I was at school so that's sort of why I wanted to put it in there because rape can come in so many forms it can come from one of your best friends yes because if last minute you don't want to do something you shouldn't have to do it and even though at my time I was very scared to say no, there was such a big power imbalance.

1:38:30Yes, yes. That at his age he should have known that was really wrong and now I'm his age now, the thought of doing that to someone, let alone the fact they're 17, is, yeah, horrific. Yeah. So that's why I'm now like, no, this was wrong and I need to speak about it. Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And incredibly brave to do so. Incredibly brave to do so. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. This is all grace today. Yeah, Jesus. It's all grace today. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm loving and feel honored to get to know grace. Truly. Well, you're the only one I'd do it for. Can we talk about Ella? Of course. Ella's with you.

1:39:23Yeah. Can I say this? And this is not me trying to gas you and Ella up, but I can see how much in love you and Ella are. Yeah, it's sickening, isn't it? No, you know what? It is beautiful to see. I want to go back to understanding how you two met, but I think the piece in the middle is us talking about sexuality. Yeah. Because throughout our conversation, you've been talking about you and boys. Yeah. All right. So tell me about how you, how did you identify in college? And when did you begin to fully explore your sexuality? Do you know what it is? Because I've always grown up in quite small towns, it was always you get with a man.

1:40:12Okay. And in relation, I have been attracted to the men I've been with, right? That wasn't a lie. Those relationships weren't a lie. But I just didn't realise or even think that that was a possibility. And we had like two lesbians at my school. They'd always snog at break time. And I was like, I was very, didn't know, didn't know much about lesbians. I didn't get it. I thought a lesbian, it was an undercut, butch. I thought that was what a lesbian was. And I was like, well, that's not me. So I'm not a lesbian. And I'd never even looked at a woman and thought, yeah, this is a bit, because I'd never allowed myself to because I didn't think that wasn't me.

1:41:00And then I went to uni and I was, obviously I was just free at uni. I could do whatever I wanted. And I was like, oh, that's when I started thinking girls are quite nice. Like they're quite attractive. I get on with girls and the emotional connection. I've been friends with a lot of boys and that connection is never there. So I started experimenting at uni with girls sorry Ella um and it was always just sort of like a one night stand thing because I'd get the fear the next day I'd really overthink it I'd be like oh I can't believe I did that and the fear was what just like oh like I can't believe I did that I'm really embarrassed oh shame yeah it was shame I felt shame because I was like that's not what I have grown up knowing.

1:41:55Like I'd never really known a lesbian. When I watch films when I'm younger, it's always Prince Charming or You Fall For That Guy. I'd never watched a film where two girls had fallen in love. It just wasn't a thing for me to see. Then I was with someone. And one thing about when I'm with men is they've never made it past a year or it'll be on a year and I'm like, I'm done. I've never had I can easily dispose you're gone I don't care I'm not upset about it um so then after my last breakup I got rid and I was like you know what I really feel like I want to date women I want to see if like what that's all about and I said on my pod I had Ella Toon on my podcast okay and she's a footballer and i was like right this is a call out i want a female footballer i've never watched football but okay but at this point though yeah so are you saying that you're saying this as gk barry yeah also yeah right and are you saying it like facetiously like jokingly or i'm saying it semi as a as a i didn't actually want a footballer that was like It's just because I had a footballer on the pod.

1:43:17I was like, fuck it. I'm going to say I want a female footballer. You've got any mates? But I knew I wanted. I just had a feeling. I was like, I just really want to date a woman. I really, I want to see if I'm, because I know I'm attracted to them. But what allowed you to be able to say it publicly and therefore not carry the shame that you had previously? Do you know what it is? Since being in this industry, my friends are gay men. I love gay men. I connect with them like I have never connected with anyone before. Most of my team is gay apart from my makeup artist, but she's got the pass. And also this isn't any, like my uncle, a drag queen, my parents have always said to me from literally like three, we don't care if you're with a man or a woman, if you're happy, that's fine.

1:44:10So I'd never had any of that. Oh, I can't. It was just mentally for me. So I did that call out on the pod and one of my friend's partners was like, it's so weird you've said that. And it was that night after the pod. I went over to theirs. He said, I met this girl on a cruise. Her name's Ella Rutherford and she plays for Charlton. Just look at her Instagram, see if you're into it. I looked at her Instagram and I was like, fuck my life. The arse on it, her ponytail, everything about her. I was like, she is beautiful and she's clearly driven. I'd never dated anyone driven before but I could see she was driven in her career and I was like I really like that so I followed her she then messages me she has no idea who I am by the way at this point I find out later on she's had to ask her sister who's been like that's GK Barry like what are you talking about she messages me and she's recovering from a knee injury she did her ACL something went wrong with that she's had another surgery and what I didn't know at this point was she was in the depths of how she was in a really awful awful place she was about to give up football wow she was in a really awful place and then i've come in and i've been like look i why don't we just meet up but for me we we can't go on a normal date because one she's injured she's hobbling about the place but two i i don't want someone to film me on a date like I want to know this for myself and be certain because my last relationship was very public so I was like right so she came to my house and I remember I first date at the house I was I can't even explain to you the anxiety I was nearly I was gagging you were beginner lesbian I was like baby gay like I was like it was I was terrified I opened the door and she's there, stunning, and she comes in and straight away we're laughing.

1:46:29I got a date where I got canvases and paint and we had to paint each other because I thought it was a very good icebreaker. Yes. She stayed that night and we have lived together ever since. I promise you. The only time away we've had is the jungle. This is the longest first date I've ever heard in my life. You're so gay. You're so gay. First day. Yep. That's it. She stays over. And that's it. She goes home to get some more clothes. She comes back. And that's it. And we've just lived on and off at hers and mine. Look at that. Yeah. And that's for how long? Two and a bit years now. Look at that.

1:47:08She made it past the year mark. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's big. That is big. That was big. So when did you introduce Ella to your parents? so we've got an app called life 360 right so you can always see where i am yes um and i was always at her house and i was saying to my parents oh i'm just at my friend ella's just at my friend ella's because at this point i was like i don't introduce people to my parents until i've been with them for a little bit anyway because you know i just think that's respectful um and they're like grace does i don't sleep around people's houses i like to be in my own bed friends best friend whatever i like to be in my own bed so they're seeing me consecutively stay at this other house this friend this friend called ella who bearing in mind i've moved to this random place at this point who i don't know anyone and all of a sudden i've got this best friend i'm staying at and they've come around one day just to see me and ella's there they're getting on really well and I have to drop them back to the train station.

1:48:16And my dad or my mum just goes, who is Ella? What is Ella to you? And I just went, she's my girlfriend. And they went, all right, okay. I mean, that was it. And then from then on, it's just been my girlfriend Ella. It was never... To know that they fully accepted it, because you thought they would. Well, I was very scared because I thought, I know you've always told me that. Right. But when it comes down to it, are you going to feel a type of way? But they completely just accepted it. They accepted it. How did it feel to know they fully accepted? That was then when I sighed relief because I didn't care about the internet.

1:49:00I didn't care about anyone else's opinions. It was just like my parents. Yes. All right. So this could be a tough question, but I'm curious. Okay. What do you believe it is that Ella loves most about you? God. I think, and I could be wrong, but we're polar opposite. She is someone who is, she's outspoken. She will say, if she's got a problem with someone, she's going to tell them. She'll stand on business. She's very outgoing. She's sporty. she when when she's angry she's she's like she's she feels her emotions and she'll show her emotions and sometimes especially during the start she got adhd i feel like she struggled to regulate her emotions and then there's me i'm very laid back i would not say boo to a goose i i am someone that hides my emotions and it will only until i have to say it will i say it and both of us being together it's like yin and yang like we will bring out the good qualities in each other yes which i think i've i would say i've helped her regulate and talk, regulate her feelings and how she says it.

1:50:29Whereas she has then said to, she's brought on to me that I can say how I feel. And if I, if someone has upset me, I can tell them that they've upset me. So it's very much like that. There's like a balance. See, once again, proof that there's real love there. Yeah. You know, because the, The, you know, have you ever heard or read any of these studies around how what people say is that if you're in a loving relationship, you live longer, you're healthier, all these things. Yes. Right. But you know where all of that comes from? It comes from the fact that a loved one helps you to regulate. Yeah.

1:51:06The co-regulation, it helps you to reduce stress. Yeah. Right. And so ultimately, that's what's allowing you to be healthier, live longer, make more money, that kind of thing. It's beautiful. it's beautiful it took us a while as well at the start it was very rocky because we didn't because we're so different i didn't know how to handle her and she didn't know how to handle me because we both dealt with things very differently right so she has to sit on her feelings and then just go for it whereas i have to if we're in an argument i have to be like are you mad at me like what are you mad at can you just tell me quickly because i've got anxiety whereas she needs to stew on it to then be able to articulate it and that was a big thing at the start and i would imagine lifestyle too you know so uh from me being involved with football yeah i understand how disciplined an athlete's schedule needs to be whereas i also understand being in a creative space how like all over the place we are so all over the place yeah honestly so it's like how do you you know how do you manage those two things yeah must be challenging so it was it was difficult And also we have different lives in the fact that Ella is known in the football world.

1:52:15She's very known in the football world. And I'm known by the girls and the gays. So like having to then merge those two. Yes. Was also quite weird. Because it was like we'd, I said, I'm not showing Ella. This relationship's private. No one's going to know about her. I'm going to call her eyelashes because she gets eyelash extensions. And I'll talk about her, but you're not going to know who she is. two weeks later people have found out who she was and said you know what yeah you're right it is Ella and then everyone knew and that again was quite anxiety provoking for me because I was like oh now everyone's gonna have opinions yes and I don't like opinions because I feel like they can get in the way sometimes or make you you think the way you're not meant to be thinking yes and i i didn't really like that how do you deal with the negative opinion and negative commentary luckily when i said that i was with a woman every because i've got the girls again everyone was like yes amazing we're so supportive and i had never obviously dealt with any homophobia ella unfortunately has she's had a very different journey with it so i remember we were in benedorm my favorite place and um we walked past a bar holding hands all the men in the bar stood up and started clapping saying oh that was that's wait they're wasted that's wasted they're going and i was like i've never i don't know what to do but ella is very good at being like fuck off and leave us alone and that has really helped because now i'm like okay that's how you navigate it.

1:54:03That's it. Otherwise I would not have a clue. Wow. Love it. I love it. I think it's time for another surprise. I think you deserve a surprise. Okay. You ready for it? Yeah. Will I close my eyes? All right. Don't put my hand out. Put your hand out. And bam. Not another one. Another one. Another one. Another one. Another one. Right. Who's this from? I'm terrified who you've contacted her. This was a hard one to get. Right, you ready? Ready. Hey. It's now a good time to tell you how beautiful you are. That was her first message to me. I know this is Ella. Hee hee, I'll stop flirting immediately or you'll probably cringe.

1:54:48Correct. I can't deal with when she flirts with me. I just want you to know how proud I am of you. I see firsthand how hard you work and how much of yourself you give to everything and everyone in your life. You have the purest and most beautiful soul, the funniest person in every room and bring so much light to our lives. You're strong, smart, kind, gorgeous and have the biggest heart that I'm so lucky to be loved by. Please never forget that I believe in you on the day. Why am I crying? Because it's lovely. Can you edit in the crying to my parents one as well? Cool. please never forget that I believe in you on the days when you feel like you're not enough I'll be there to remind you that you are on the days oh my god Paul I don't know what is in this room I feel like you're drugging me to cry allegedly um wherever life wait on the days when you're proud of yourself I'll be right there celebrating with you wherever life takes you whatever challenges come your way I hope you always remember that you'll never have to face them alone.

1:55:54I love you more than you'll ever know. P.S. I cannot wait to marry you and grow an old and wrinkly together. That was really cute. I love that. Bitch. Can't believe she did that. That was really cute. It was incredible. Oh, she is very articulate when she wants to be. Yeah. What stands out to you most from that letter? That was just cute about going through it together. Because I have been struggling with trying to give my time to everyone. So I feel like just knowing that she is just there regardless is very nice. Yeah. You know, now that I feel like I fully know you, I can see that. Oh, sorry.

1:56:41No problem. Ella is the person that you've always been searching for. Mm. You know? Yeah, I don't know what was going on before her. Jesus wept yeah it was it was you could see how your life has I would say like a great partner yeah level up with a great partner yeah you know but it does make a difference I was very happy when I was single I was like I can do this alone like I'm a strong independent woman but having Ella has really yeah changed everything yes yeah yes it was having that person to have support you like vice versa so marriage oh god yeah marriage is in the future it is and I'm not completely off marriage okay so we're on the marriage train we're on the marriage train really?

1:57:37yeah and it will happen I know I'm the one doing it as well because everything has to be my way or the highway so just to know everything's good I'm the one that's doing it Yeah. Look at that evolution of life. I know. From your earlier thoughts around marriage to now. Yeah. It's incredible. It's funny when you meet someone that it will just flip the script. Yes. Yeah. Where does the Prosecco come from? I mean, for you. The fridge. My mum loves Prosecco. okay she always has and it's become our thing if i see my mom will have a little prosecco we're very we're quite a drink heavy family okay um which is funny because when i met ella they they don't drink really say she's an athlete so she's like but even she grew up there wasn't really a drinking household where for me friday saturday in the house let's go like we're having we're having a drink we're having a great time especially during lockdown but yeah I've just always sort of grown up with it and I know it's quite a bad thing to lean on but it makes you feel so relaxed like I could do anything after a Prosecco I don't know how that sounds you thought about that you're like that sounds like I've got a problem I do not have a problem I can go without it but I just like it yeah I once did a pilot for a TV show and we had to make a coffin for ourselves.

1:59:20Arguably a bad manifestation. And I made mine in the shape of a Prosecco. Of course you did. And that was, I thought that felt right. Of course you did. I'm sure you've been pitched a Prosecco brand. Never. Never? No. Someone needs to get on that. I know. That's so you. Imagine I go sober in a couple years and I'm still having to like peg it out. You're a non-alcoholic Prosecco then? Was no point really. Can I ask you the final question? Everybody gets it. Okay. The question is, you've had some incredible conversations in your life. Which one stands out to you as the most memorable? Who was it with and what did you learn?

2:00:03It's really random, but I was filming Celebrity Sabotage with Joel Dormit was one of the people on it. Yes. And I remember him and Sam Thompson were like the highest energy ever. As soon as that camera came on, they were just incredible. And I remember going to Joel and saying, I just feel like I'm not sure why I'm here. I don't bring what you bring. And I just I don't think I have that for telly. I just don't think I fit in with that. and I remember he said to me, he was like, you have been hired for a reason and basically whatever room you're in, you deserve to be in. Whether you're the smallest one in there or the biggest, I think everyone deserves a right to be in there and that you should believe in your source.

2:00:59And I am a believer in believing in your source because even if when I'm on sets and stuff and I know I'm not the funniest or I'm the smallest, I know what I can bring to a table, and I think that's really important. Yes, that's powerful. That's powerful for everyone. Yeah. And shout out to Joel. Shout out to Joel. Joel's one of the good ones. I love Joel. He's lovely. He really is. He's a great husband and father. Yeah, he's like a saint. He has to have some sort of flaw, but I haven't found it yet. Yeah, he's not good looking. He runs marathons, that's his flaw He's like incredibly good looking Oh my gosh Thank you Thank you You're super beyond super Oh thanks Paul, I've thoroughly enjoyed Even the crying bits Yeah I could see it You know what's interesting is that You even joke through the crying I know I can't stop, I'll joke when I'm dying as well They won't take me seriously I'll flatline them and be like oh shit she was right she's actually dead oh it's too late it's too late uh thank you thank you that is it that is it i mean i remember when we started the podcast i created a list and now i'm really recalling it it was 30 people that i had on the list and grace was on it what's so interesting to me is that if you fast forward two years i didn't even realize that she watched the pad the the podcast but But to sit and hear her talk about how she watches it and therefore only wanted to come on when she had something of substance, to me that was super special.

2:02:43You see how she, at 27, I consider her a young woman, how she has done extremely well in a short period of time and how much more she has to achieve. But I think this notion of never give up, always have hope, you know, fight to the last breath, like all of those lessons I think you can pull from her story. Until this research, I didn't know there was a difference between G.K. Berry and Grace. I thought it was one person, you know what I mean? But now I see, no, G.K. Berry is a persona. It's a facade. It's a representative. of grace. So that's my big kind of epiphany from the conversation. What was it about Simon from the Sidemen that led you to truly fall in love with him?

2:03:41I never talk about this kind of thing. We spoke the whole party. I think we went to sleep at 8 a.m. So then the wedding. Second best day ever. Second best day ever. What is best day ever? Hey guys, hey guys, hey guys, it's Talia. Welcome back to my channel.

2:04:01I wanted to quit my job to do YouTube and music. All I did was that I didn't eat, I didn't sleep, I didn't speak. My first ever paycheck was like pounds and I was so excited. But then I was diagnosed with anorexia and people would say I looked ill. That would really incentivize me. I'd be like, brilliant, that means it's working. That's when something just clicked. What am I doing? The world now knows you and Simon from the Sidemen are together. People are horrible. In my DMs, I hope you die. And how did Simon embrace your autism? It was one of the things he liked about me. How autism is presented in the media is not how I am.

2:04:46I think people forget that it's a spectrum. It presents differently in women. You've got the husband, the career, the child. How does that make you feel?

2:05:20Liberty Mutual Music City kickoff game. College Football Labor Day weekend continues Saturday and Sunday on ABC and the ESPN app.

2:05:50Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. The most memorable gifts aren't found. They're made. Zazzle is a custom marketplace where you pick any product. A mug, a card, a tote, a phone case, and make it personal. A photo, a name, an inside joke. The kind of gift that actually fits the person. That's what 30 million customers have been coming back to Zazzle for over 20 years to find. Right now, save 25 % on your first order at Zazzle.com.

2:06:25That's Zazzle.com. Make it z-amazing. Hey, I'm running out to drop off a stack of letters and packages. Need anything shipped while I'm gone? Save the gas. Stamps.com lets you print postage and schedule pickups right from your desk. Sync your contacts into the address book, get detailed accounting insights, and get notified the moment your certified mail is delivered. All from my desk? All from your desk. Join the 4 million businesses using Stamps.com right now with code podcast and get your free welcome gift. Stamps.com code podcast. Taxes and fees apply.