Gypsy-Rose Blanchard: “No One Has Really Listened To Me… Until Now”

38:25Yes, they are good collectors. Yeah, very good, very good. There's been an endless number of documentaries, TV specials, extended podcasts about your life. Yeah. It centers around your childhood, the crime. Was there anything that you want to clarify that you've seen or heard about from these documentaries that you do believe is inaccurate? That's a loaded question. Um, I mean, nothing that I can, I can really touch on specifically. I mean, all I know is that, you know, from, from birth to, you know, five years old-ish, you know, the, the simplicity of having my mom, even with the medical stuff, I loved my mom so much at that time.

39:27My mom was my world.

39:33I see she was everything and the only thing that she had. Yeah. Yeah. Real quick, hit follow and tap the bell icon. It allows us to continue bringing you this show that we all love. We can go anywhere in the world right now. I'm in LA and we'll bring you the most phenomenal guests. And the only thing it costs you is to hit follow and tap the bell icon. You then start dating. Kind of. Kind of, sort of. Kind of. How does that happen? And also how does your mother react to that? because you just mentioned when it comes to platonic friends, she runs them away. So how do you start doing that? Well, my mom, how do I put this?

40:31My mom was very anti-men. Once my father broke her heart, it's kind of like I grew up with a mom that became bitter. I'm just going to put it out there, bitter. that every man is a horrible douchebag that is just out to hurt everyone. So my mom never, like my mom wanted me to be a nun, literally, and she was going to put me in a convict. Like she really wanted me to be a nun, even though I never expressed to her that I wanted to be one.

41:09So knowing that, I always knew she didn't want me to date. You can't stop the curiosity in a child or a teen. And that's where I was at. I was curious about the opposite sex. I was wondering, so-and-so lives down the street. She has a boyfriend. Right. And I started comparing my life to other people around my age. Watching the Disney Channel, they have these sort of pseudo-boyfriends on TV shows and stuff. Yes. Um, so I started getting curious, but I got curious in the wrong way. So instead of, you know, obviously, kids meet other kids via school. I wasn't in school. So I went to the internet.

41:57And I found creeps on the internet. I did things on the internet I'm not proud of, like take my clothes off for strangers.

42:10these men that I would you know meet online they were predatory and I wasn't thinking anything different other than yeah this is an experience that I've had before so it's normal it was normal so it's kind of like I made a secret Facebook account that she didn't know about. I was adding strangers on there, you know, meeting what I thought would be friends. Yes. And then we went, there was a kind of like, I don't know if you know what Comic-Con is. Oh, yeah, definitely. Or like a sci-fi convention type of thing. So there was one that would happen in Springfield, Missouri every year. It was called VisionCon.

42:58Okay. And so anyway, my mom takes us to this convention and we meet lots of nice people. We have a great time. I dressed up like a princess. It was fun. I started adding all these people that went to the convention on my Facebook. Ah, okay. And they would say like, oh, it's so nice to see you at the convention. So at least there was some level of interaction. Like, oh, you were at the convention, so was I. And there was a guy that was at the convention. He sent me a Facebook request. His name was Dan. And he was much older than I was. So I was real age, 18. Okay. 18, 19. But my mom was trying to pass me off as 15.

43:50Okay. So he thought that I was 15. Okay. He was 36 at the time. Okay. And started talking on Facebook and just on Facebook. I thought he was cute. And he was kind of digging me too. Okay. Is this your first kind of interaction, pseudo-romantic? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Okay. So we flirted for a while, and then I start telling him more about my life. And my mom had caught us talking on the phone, and she threatened him. Oh, wow. Okay. And then I found, I was going through my mom's purse, and I found my health insurance card. And it said my birthday was 1991. And so I'm like, that would make me 18, 19, not 15.

44:48So I tell this to him. And I'm like, well, that would make me legal. Like, I can go live with you. You know, like all this sort of like ideas. Yes. and he's like well if you're legal then you could just get up and leave like you can just you could leave and I'm like I don't have a car I don't have a way to leave and so he's like I'll take you as far as Arkansas like we can live together on a ranch in Arkansas so two weeks go by I get a text from him that he's in the hospital that he wants me to join him in the hospital he He wants someone to be there with him. He got beat up. So I pack a bag. And in the middle of the night, I get out of my mom's bed, pack a bag, go out the front door, hitchhike, meet him at the hospital.

45:40And he didn't have a home. He was couch surfing at his friends. And so we go to his friends. they realize that I'm there and they recognize me from the convention. And they realize this girl is 15 years old. So they got in contact with a mutual friend of my mom's. Told my mom where I was. Four hours later my mom comes to pick me up. Oh my goodness. And she told me, she's like, if you come back with me, I'll let you see him. Manipulation to the fullest. So I get in the car. I'm like, okay. And I mean, at this time I'm like all courage. And I'm like, I'm, I know I'm 19 and I know that I could see him.

46:29And she's like, if you come back with me, I will let you see him. So I go back with my mom and that's when I got chained, tied. To me, all these, you know, words restrained to the bed happened for two weeks. for two weeks you were tied tied tied to the bed so what my mom did was she took a dog leash and clipped it and tied it to a pair of like handcuffs and then put it around the bed and then whenever like i would need to go to the bathroom she would undo it and then like she had away like because we were in the same bed so she can tell if I would move or whatever she'd wake up and it was like that for two weeks she put bells on the doors and then eventually put a padlock on the door um blacked out all the windows with tent like window tent um that's when she started hitting me though.

47:38That's when the hitting started. At this point, you're, you know, you're 18, 19, but, but she's telling you that you're, you're 15. Yes. Your relationship with your mother, do you perceive her to still love you? I didn't feel like it was love. I felt like it was a need. Like she needs me because she doesn't have anyone else. Okay.

48:14And so it's like after she tied me up, I gained enough trust to where I'm like, I'm not going to leave again. I'm not going to leave again. Don't worry about it. I'm not going to leave. So that trust was built up enough to be let off the chain. And well, then it's like soon after I attempt to run away again. Oh, wow. Okay. But this time, like she found out. And looking back on it, I'm like, why pack a damn bag? Just get out of the freaking house. Because I kept packing bags. Like, let me pack a bag. Right. She found my bag. And so she knew I was going to run away again. And so and I owned up to it, too.

48:54I was like, just let me leave and I will, you'll never see me again. I'm, you know, just forget about me. Just let me go. And she's like, I won't and I can't and you're not leaving. And that's when I proceeded to take a BB gun and I knew full and well it was a BB gun. It was not going to kill her. um I took a bb gun and she came toward me and I freaked out and I released the bb gun um one hit her in the clavicle one hit in the leg um they were superficial wounds you know they broke the skin but ultimately a band-aid covered it up um and then after that happened like we both had this moment of like sit on the bed holy moment and i was never the type to be violent ever i never yelled at my mom i never hit my mom It was like it was at that moment that I realized that something in me snapped, that I could snap in that big of a way.

50:14What was your mother's response? I honestly feel like she never expected to be trapped in her own choices. Her own design was falling apart in front of her. and I don't think that she realized that, and I don't mean this in any sort of mean way, but I don't think she realized I had the guts to stand up for myself in any meaningful way. And so is it at this point where you then joined the Christian dating site? I did about a year later. Okay. About a year later, I had joined the Christian website. And then the first thing that I noticed of Nick's profile is he likes to play video games. Okay. You're chatting back and forth.

51:08Does your mother become aware? No. No. So I had a secret Facebook. I had a secret Skype account. Wow. Okay. I have a conversation with him that I want to meet him. We want to meet each other in real life. Oh, so wow, Gypsy. So how long had you and Nick been corresponding without having met? It was like two years. Two years? It was like two years, yeah. You had never met? Never met. Okay. No. Yeah, I mean, it was just kind of like Skype calls and stuff like that, all on the Internet. Okay. And so we make a plan, and I'm like, listen, my mom is not going to just let me just date anybody. So maybe if she meets you, she could see what a nice person you are and she'll like you.

52:02You could be my friend. And then, like, I could ask her if, you know, you could maybe be my boyfriend. And then we wouldn't have to hide or lie anymore. So we think of this event. Like, where possibly could I be and you be? And I wanted to see the new Cinderella remake, the live action remake. Okay. make okay that came out in 2015 um so we decide okay that's where we're gonna meet up so my mom and i are gonna go see the movie and you're gonna be there too to see the movie but we're not together we're immediately we never met i see it i see it okay so we're standing in line you know comes the day we're standing in line getting popcorn and stuff like that and he's there alone but i didn't realize the optics of how that would look like here's this guy that's alone doesn't have kids doesn't have a girlfriend doesn't have a wife nothing like that just go and see a little girl movie i did not how see how that would be weird until you got there no until years later i'm like you know what yeah that was kind of grieving like what were we thinking um but my mom called it she's like this guy is giving me weird vibes and so we're in the auditorium and my mom and i are sitting next to each other well he comes sit next to me oh wow okay my mom decides hey this guy's kind of giving me the creeps so she moves several seats down I stay put I'm sitting with him I'm not moving she gets pissed that I didn't move with her so throughout the whole movie you know she's sitting there and I'm sitting over there with him she's mad at me at this point like I know I'm in trouble at this point and he and I had previously discussed that we were going to have sex in the bathroom so I go to the bathroom, to the men's bathroom go to the handicapped stall he follows me in we attempt to have sex doesn't work out okay and I go back sit next to my mom she proceeds to take me to the bathroom on the opposite side slaps me across the face and says, you were gone too long.

54:42What were you doing? So I was like, nothing, nothing, nothing. You know, of course I'm going to say nothing, nothing, nothing. Right. So the movie ends. We leave. He takes a cab back to his hotel. And we have a huge argument at the house. You and your mother? Me and my mom. Okay. about how she got the creeps from this guy, like why I didn't go sit with her, like the smallest little things would just kind of set her off. So I'm like, I'm sorry. I was just trying to make a new friend. You know, I was doing my best to kind of like bridge that connection because I really wanted, you know, I really wanted both of them in my life.

55:25I wanted my mom in my life and I wanted Nick in my life. And she was not budging. She got a bad vibe from him from the beginning. You and Nick then just continue messaging back and forth. Continue messaging. And you feel like this is your boyfriend still. Yeah. And then your mother, your relationship with your mother, does it continue to deteriorate from there? Continues to deteriorate. And we had previously, yes, knocked around the idea of murder. You did. and it was from all stemming from a conversation where he's like it was it was an argument between me and my mom stuff got physical she hit me I told him she hit me and he's like I'm gonna protect you from anyone I said anyone he said anyone I said even my mom and he said yes even your mom like I'll take her out too and never thinking that that was actually going to happen Okay.

56:33So for you, it wasn't a serious thought. It wasn't a serious thought until after what happened at the movie theater. Okay. Okay. So really, so after the movie theater, then at that point, you were, help me understand how it became a serious thought after the movie theater. Because that's when I started to realize, like, no matter what I do, I will never be able to be my own person, never have my own freedom. never make my own choices. I'll never get married. Like all of the thoughts of like, what is my life going to be like in the next 20 and 30 years? Is it going to be like this right here? Is my life going to continue to be this for the rest of my life?

57:21My youth gone, any happy moments of future children, anything like this. How long is this going to continue? And that thought kept going in my head over and over and over again. So, yes, the desperate thought of I want my mom out of the picture. And it's like I didn't want her dead necessarily. If she would have went to prison, I would have been all the happier. But that, unfortunately, was a conversation he and I had. Okay. Okay. So you had it. And also, I'm curious, Gypsy, at this point, you are roughly how old? Because I know age-wise, you don't know exactly. I was 23. Okay. I was 23. You were 23.

58:16I was 23. So this is even more fascinating because you're an adult at this point, but you still feel as if you are trapped in your mother's home. Mm-hmm. And you'll never be able to leave it. Right. Literally. Right. Okay. The relationship with Nick as well is how would you characterize it? Because I've seen moments or excerpts where it's been characterized as abusive. But how do you characterize that relationship? It was toxic. Toxic. Very, very toxic. Okay. How so? um our personalities um were not a good not a good fit um our backgrounds was not a good fit um i i say and i say this in my book you know nick was the car i was the key um he was the gasoline i was the fire And separately, probably not dangerous.

59:22Together, catastrophic. Because he brought a component to me and I brought a component to him that resulted in tragedy. You know, his conversations with me was predominantly about sex. It was predominantly about overpowering a woman because he had an interest in this BDSM master-slave relationship. And he had this with his ex-girlfriends as well. So it was before me, during me, and after me. So this is not something I brought to the relationship. This is something that he had a thing for. And I had not heard of, you know, this sort of master-slave relationship until meeting him. And so I did what I could to fulfill that fantasy for him.

1:00:17And that included making videos that we would send back and forth to each other. Those videos have now been released to the public. is that what because of the court case or for other reasons okay um they are quite humiliating because these videos were intimate they're not meant for the public they were meant for nick and nick and only at the time um but anything from you know doing sexual acts to saying really disturbing things that I definitely regret later on now. Right. I think what's important for, I think, us all to understand, too, is the context. Because from what I understand is you had no one else.

1:01:09Right. So literally, your world revolved around then your mother and Nick, two people that you are desperately in need of loving you. Do you believe they loved you? I believe my mother loved me to an extent. I think that she didn't know how to show love. I think that unfortunately, you know, she didn't get the mental health help that she would have needed to understand how to love a child and have a raise a child on her own um going through the childhood that she had um nick i do not believe he loved me one bit um i believe that i was someone who was in a very specific situation um vulnerable situation to fill out his fantasies He often had fantasies that were very disturbing.

1:02:18Could you be open to saying what they were? Rape fantasies. And he was looking for someone who was not worldly and experienced. So someone in a very vulnerable state to live out these fantasies with or to. Okay. And like I said, it would be one thing if, you know, I brought a certain element into the relationship that was equally as disturbing. Like if those were my desires, but it wasn't. And before me, you know, his ex-girlfriends did warn me. They did? There was an ex-girlfriend that did warn me that he has very disturbing behavioral patterns. And I brushed it off like, she's just a jealous ex-girlfriend.

1:03:11And I completely ignored it. And then until it was too late. And then also post me, post our relationship, he's went on to have another relationship, prison relationships. And where he continues the same cycles over and over again. Okay. Okay. Going to the crime, what I understand was a catalyst for you also, was it your throat that was going to be? It was going to be like biopsy, explored, explored. And they were going to have to do more things to my throat, but on my voice box this time. Okay. So if you can take me to that, because it seems like that was an important moment for you. Yes. It was a moment where I was like, I already had throat surgery already.

1:04:15And it was a rough surgery. And so the thought of going through another procedure that I'm like, well, this time you're gonna you're gonna start messing with my voice and that's terrifying um you know I I felt like how much more are you gonna take from me and so June 10th 2015 if you can take me to that day or even the preceding day and walk me through it step by What you were thinking, what was going on for you? So I knew that that was the day. I had been texting with Nick. He said, you might want to start saying your goodbyes. And so I just remember my mom and I said, we're going to paint our nails, we're going to watch a movie.

1:05:18And I wanted to make it a good night. Like I wanted to make it a night that I felt like I would remember her for the good.

1:05:28So she cooked dinner. She ate her dinner. I painted her nails. She painted my nails. Picked out a movie and laid down. She took a little longer to fall asleep and then I fell asleep. Then I woke up shortly. like five minutes after she fell asleep and I texted him that she fell asleep um and I said the gloves are on the porch and he's like okay I'm taking a cab over and he not like he didn't knock on the door he um he texted me he's like I'm here so I get up out of bed and I walk over open the door first thing he said when he comes to the door is this bitch is dead and I told him like be quiet be quiet and he's like where's the knife so I hand him the knife and he said get your bleeping ass to the bathroom so I go to the bathroom.

1:06:39I closed the door. I locked the door behind me. And I just kind of get into the fetal position and I cover my ears. And that's what happened. And at any point, you don't want to discuss this. We can move on. A few questions though that I have is, so going into that day, it sounds like over the last maybe two, you've known Nick now for what, two years, three years? Yeah. You have discussed murder previously with him. He's had fantasies of raping, murdering. How did you know, how did you, why did you believe that it was actually going to happen on this day? I honestly didn't think that he was going to go through with it until it actually happened.

1:07:34um and then after it happened there was a point where I didn't process what happened he was walking around the house and talking at a normal voice tone and I was like shh you're gonna wake her up like that there was a level of distance from the situation where like I was still she was dead in the other room and I'm still thinking I'm afraid she's gonna wake up see you in the house and you know punish me in some type of way did you go to to see your mother no no I did not go in that room I Nick actually anytime because her room is like right here my room was right here and then there's the hall and so he would block her room so anytime i was walking in and out of my room he would block the area so i couldn't see okay okay now um i i'm i know that you're aware of of how severe the murder was.

1:08:52And I understand he used the knife that you provided him and that the stabbing was so severe that it almost severed her head. Did he talk about the murder at all? No. There was no discussion? No discussion of it. Not after the fact, no. Okay. Did you, when in the bathroom, because I would imagine there was a tussle, there was a fight that ensued. Did you hear anything? Yes. You did. Can you say, what did you hear? I heard screaming, and it was like horrible sound. It was a horrible sound. It was screaming. It was shock. I almost think I heard, who are you, was asked. And I am right because according to some of the transcripts of Nick's testimony and other inmates that had talked to him, she had asked, who are you?

1:10:06And he responded, I am death. So I do know that that was probably what I heard. And I remember her calling out for my name and like I wanted to go and help her. Like I felt like I wanted to go and help her but I was terrified at the same time. Like my body was paralyzed. I couldn't move. And I just kept remembering. Breathe. Remember to just breathe. And I kept telling myself in that mind just breathe. and I was so focused on like trying to breathe and block it out and I just remember one sharp scream and then nothing after that and then I realized it was over and then he came to the bathroom door and knocked for me to open up the door what did he say to you um he didn't, I don't think he'd say anything.

1:11:10He, he had cut his finger. And so he wanted me to bandage him up. And he wanted me to be completely naked when I opened up the door. And so I was completely naked. Um, and he wanted me to hug him. And so there was this sort of embrace where it was, I was in a state of shock that I couldn't believe what happened.

1:11:54And he, now I better understand knowing his previous desires and BDSM and what he had said to you previously. Now I understand why he said, when I come to the door, you should be naked. I understand that he then assaulted you. Yes. That specifically was really difficult because prior to having the crime happen, he wanted to assault my mom. That was his fantasy. He wanted to assault my mom. I felt like that was too far. I was like, no, I will not, you know, do it to me instead. And he said, fine, that's the price you have to pay then. If you don't want me to do that to your mom, you're going to have to let me do it to you.

1:12:52And I agreed. So come to that point, keep in mind, I was a virgin. Come to that point, I guess I agreed to something I didn't fully understand. and that's all I'll say about that and what's even more horrible is I had to testify in court and I had to I'm going to be open and honest and say that I had to basically say he didn't rape me because he got me to agree to it. So is it, even though I said stop, I said no, stop, you're hurting me. But because I previously agreed to it, now I'm confused. What is consensual? I thought consent is given and removed in a moment's notice. I thought so too, but apparently not in the court's eyes.

1:14:00So because you had what verbally or in a text said that you were open to having sex, that that gave him open consent. Yep. And in the eyes of the court, they feel the same way too. Because I told the court, I said, stop. And they said, did he with you? And they have evidence that I agreed to it. So I said, no. Knowing full and well that he did. Wow. This is in court was this is in what state was this? Missouri. Missouri. OK. OK. Yeah, that's that's that's that's a horrendous law there. And so. After the assault, how do you feel in that moment, if you can go back? It was also, you have to understand that there was, yes, there was this assault.

1:15:04And yes, there was the crime. But Nick had also claimed that he has multiple personalities. So during this whole time, he's switching back and forth between personalities. Oh, interesting. I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Split. Yes, I have. Okay, it was like that, where you can just change just like that. So the person that murdered my mother, his name is Victor, not Nick, okay? The person who assaulted me is Victor, not Nick. So in my mind, these are two completely different people. I'm not looking at the person that just assaulted me and Nick as being the same person. And I'm thinking, okay, you know, one means to hurt me, but also save me.

1:16:02And the other one is just, you know, the Nick that I had been talking to for two plus years. I see. So I was compartmentalizing at the time. Okay. And did you, at the time, did you believe that he was multiple people in essence? Yes. Okay, you did. I fully believed it. Like I said, I grew up with a mom that heard voices, saw things. So I was pretty gullible to just believe about anything. Okay. Okay. Now I see. So then what do you two do at this point? So we go back because he was staying at a hotel nearby. So we go back to the hotel. And I also had been self-medicating. I had developed an addiction to opiates.

1:16:51So I was taking three Xanaxes and Vicodins all together, and I was very, very high after the fact. Ordering pizza, giggling, laughing, not a care in the world. Okay. And this is in the house? No, no, no, no, no, no. In the hotel? In the hotel. In the hotel. Okay. Next day. And so you both left your mother's body in the house. Yep. Was there thoughts on we're going to cover this up or the thought was there was no thought? There was no thought. It was just. It was just live, live, and every step was not planned. It was literally after it happened, it was run. Run to a different state. Forget about it.

1:17:50It didn't exist. Okay. So you went to the hotel, ordered pizza. You're just... Chilling. Chilling. Watching shows. Having a good time. And so then, 24 hours, at a certain point, you post, or who posts? So one of the two of you post. You post. Okay. And what do you post? So we were already back in Wisconsin at this time. That's where he lived. Okay. And I logged into my mom's Facebook account because I did not like the idea of her just being there. I felt very unsettled, very uncomfortable with it, like that level of remorse and just like I want her found. She deserves a proper burial. So I want her found.

1:18:40So I log into her Facebook account. And I think back to what he said when he came in the house. The bitch is dead. So that's what I put. My mom hardly ever cussed, especially around people. So that's what I put to seem alarming so the authorities could go and find her. And then she could be given a burial. What about, did you discuss that with Nick to post? Was that or that was just you? I'm pretty sure that was just me. Okay. Did it draw the authorities? It did. Okay. Ultimately, the goal that I wanted to have her found happened. Okay. So she's found by the police. Mm-hmm. All right. But then what happens to you, Nick?

1:19:32They think that I was kidnapped. I was missing. So to the authorities, I was missing. Now, also, you have to understand that my brain was not functioning in a logical way because I went around the house before we left the scene taking down all the pictures of me, thinking that I would not exist if there would just be no pictures of me around the house. Okay. Didn't make sense at all.

1:20:05So, days go by. They think I'm missing. then all of a sudden they track the IP address to his house. From the post. From the post. That she made. Interesting. Okay. Right. Because whoever posted that was aware of what happened. Exactly. Okay. I was not aware of technology that's marked at all. So they track the IP address and then the next morning we wake up to the sound of a barking dog which is what was actually the canine unit um and two police squads surrounding the house in armored vehicles oh my goodness okay um and i told him i was like what do i say like what do i say what do i do um and he said you're gonna tell the police that your mom kicked you out that you that you were kicked out and your mom um got mad at you so you left and I came to pick you up and you don't know what happened okay so I went down first I surrendered first put me in a cop car um then they asked me once they had me in cuffs does he have any weapons does you know have any bombs or anything and I'm like no um so they got him to come down and they take him into custody in a separate car and they bring us to the police station in separate cars okay and then as you're headed to the police station what are you thinking is it that you've you fooled them because you took the photos down and I I was honestly um terrified for Nick I was terrified for him because I at that point I didn't think how I didn't see how I can get in any trouble um you know I I'm like I just had a conversation with him you know so in my mind I was definitely um downplaying my part okay okay so you thought you get to the station he would then he would be in trouble and I I told him I was like we I had stole money out of my mom's safe um it was like five thousand four thousand five thousand dollars and with that money i was like i'm gonna get you the best lawyer possible we're talking like oj simpson amazing lawyer um because i had no concept of of money you know and how much things cost so you know i'm still fully in love with Nick at this point.

1:22:46Yes. I don't want him to be in trouble. I want to get him out of there. And I'm not seeing the scope of how I'm in trouble too. Okay. When do you then realize you're in trouble too? Upon being charged with first degree murder. What goes through your mind when you hear that? Terrified. Terrifying. Because that holds with it. Is it life or is that? Life without parole. Life without parole. Okay. Okay. So then you're immediately incarcerated. Mm-hmm. Okay. And for what I understand is, and then you remain incarcerated until just a few years ago. Yes. Yeah. Walk me through the case because you made it clear to tell me right there I was still in love with Nick.

1:23:49At what point do you fall out of love with Nick? Is it during the case? It was. I think and I look back on this too and I feel like it was, you know, Nick had been the only one other than my mom that I was talking to for, you know, two plus years. so it was like the moment that I had any significant amount of time away from him that's when I started to be able to think on my own and and and think about is this relationship healthy what is it that I love about him um am I romanticizing the crime that we just committed as an act of saving me? Or is there something more sinister that I didn't see before?

1:24:40Okay. And then during that time, you're going through the court procedure. Mm-hmm. You're now off the opioids. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I know that you've reflected upon that murder multiple times, multiple times, multiple times. what's then your feeling towards your mother and what happened i was so upset with family and with the media because we're only allowed one legacy in this life you know when someone passes away all they have left is their name and i was feeling regret and remorse about allowing the media to paint her as a villain when i'm like the thing is is what if she's not a villain but rather just a very sick woman that needed help okay okay so i started to feel a lot of guilt about that um and then upon getting to prison is when I started to

1:26:01feel the pain and the loss of okay I'm never gonna see her again I'm never gonna be able to have this closure moment to ask her well you know why this why that would she forgive me there's no closure on either side. There were court proceedings for you, but there was a trial for Nick. Why is that the case? Because I was offered a plea deal. So the prosecutor felt like there was enough evidence to, enough mitigating evidence to offer me a plea deal to 10 years in the Department of Corrections, take it or leave it. So I took it. Okay. Now, I know that there was, and this is right around the time when you hit my level of awareness, you know, my radar, because this case, or should I say this moment, was all over the news.

1:27:14It was everywhere. It was headline news. And I recall there being two schools of thought around that plea deal for you. Or should I say three schools of thought? One was, okay, that sounds about right. Another was, no way. She deserves life in sentence or worse, or a life in prison or worse. And another is, no, she should get off entirely, completely. When you reflect on a 10-year plea deal for your participation in murdering your mother, do you believe that was the correct sentence? No. You don't? I feel like if I would have spent the rest of my life in prison, that would have been fair for the crime that was committed.

1:28:10Oh, my goodness. Goodness. So then you feel as if Nick was given the right sentence. Yes. Okay. I don't feel like he should be free, but I do feel like he does need a lot of mental health therapy that needs to be done with him. And prison does not rehabilitate you to the best of their ability in the mental health space. They just don't. But yeah, if that would have been the outcome, that would have been fair for the crime that was committed. Now, do I also understand where the prosecution was coming from by offering me mercy? I do. So I'm appreciative for the second chance that I've been given, but I understand where people are coming from with feeling like the sentence didn't match the crime.

1:29:24Okay. Okay. Wow. That's profound for you to say that. Very profound. Were you aware of the media attention that this story got around the world, but mainly in the United States? Not to the degree that it was. You hear little bits from other inmates and what their families tell them, but there is not a lot, especially in jail. You're not even allowed to watch, read your own articles. If they make a story and you're in it, they take it out. They rip it out. Oh, interesting. Okay. So all of the papers had like these little cutouts and holes and everything because obviously it was such a big case.

1:30:13But I couldn't read any of it. And I couldn't watch any of it. Anytime it would come on the news, the guards would turn off the TV. So I was so kept from it. That's interesting. So you only knew through other inmates, through the family and friends of the other inmates. They would talk to, yeah. They would talk to, and then they would tell you. Yeah. And what were you hearing? What were they telling you? I mean, a range of different things, like, man, your case is really big. Like, everybody's talking about it. But other than that, that's it. And then I went to prison. And then, obviously, when the act came out, Hulu's the Act, that kind of blew up.

1:30:53Like, that was insane. I went from just being just a case to now being a TV character. Okay. Did you, while in prison, did you see the act? I did not, no. I heard about it because I was getting lots of fan mail and talking about it. And they would ask me questions and I didn't know what they were referring to because they They had a lot of tweaks and changes that never happened in my real life. So the things that they were referencing happened in the show. Okay. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Okay. Now, hold on, Gypsy. You said you received a lot of fan mail. Mm-hmm. When was the first or what was the first fan mail that you received?

1:31:43And how did you feel knowing that you received fan mail? So before the act came out, a documentary, the first documentary was HBO's Mommy Dead and Dearest, directed by Aaron Lee Carr. And after that documentary, I was receiving a lot of mail. And it was supportive mail. I really don't like fan mail. But it was a lot of supportive mail from people all around the world that watched this documentary. And my story resonated with them for some reason. And I'm curious in that, Gypsy, what were they writing to you? What were they saying? Telling me about their lives. A lot of them were very open to opening up about their own traumas.

1:32:30OK. They felt like they could relate in some way or another. And it was it was where I didn't feel so alone. Like I started to realize that there was a lot more people out there that goes through some really hard stuff in their life. Okay. And I was able to form friendships with these pen pals over time. All right. That's interesting. That's interesting. So prison, though, is much different than your previous living situation. Very much. How did you adjust to prison, to living there? I adjusted quite well, I feel. It was more freedom than I had ever had in my life. And it's crazy when people hear that from me, but it's the truth.

1:33:21In prison, I was able to, you know, find myself in a controlled environment. But I was able to make friends. Making friends is not easy, especially as an adult. But I was able to make choices for myself, discover who I am, discover what kind of music I like, run around, go to the gym, go to school. I got my GED while I was in prison. So, and I want to say this delicately, but I'll just say it, is that, so initially, did you enjoy your time? I won't say that it's enjoy. I will say it's live in a new way. Okay. So you enjoyed living in a new way. Enjoyment in a new way. Because, yeah, there was enjoyment.

1:34:19But at the same time, the sacrifice is the time that I missed from my family that wanted a relationship with me. You know, that's eight and a half years of me watching my sister grow up, go to prom, my brother get married. You know, all these life moments that now I cannot join with them in that I'm having to watch from afar. That is the punishment. Prison itself, I had a routine. I had a job. I didn't so much mind living there. If I had no family to go home to, prison probably wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world. Interesting. Yeah. And I also thinking that you never you didn't have any friends.

1:35:14So your entire life. You haven't had any friends. You don't know how to navigate that. You haven't had experiences of people, you know, being your friend for ulterior reasons or not. So how did you navigate that in prison? it i'm still navigating that to this day um but i i will say i was blessed to have two really good friends that i'm still friends with to this day they are both currently still locked up um but there was never a time where i felt taken advantage of by them and for me that's big now Now, I also know in prison is where you met your previous husband. Yes. Yes. So let's talk about that.

1:36:10Oh, God. Oh, God. First, how do you meet and marry someone while being in prison? How do you do that? Well, I had received a letter from a man that's local, like a Louisiana-born native. So I was like, oh, it's someone, you know, from my neck of the woods, you know, a Louisiana Cajun boy. Yes. So I wrote back, and he seemed very sweet, and we made friends. It's not like we got into a relationship right out the gate. But he made me laugh. He made me laugh, and that was something that is needed sometimes in prison. Sometimes you just need someone to make you laugh. Okay. All right. I see it. I see it.

1:37:07So now, how many men were supportive, were writing you supportive letters? That I wrote back to or no? Not that you wrote back to. I'm just curious. What was the incoming like? I mean, the incoming, I was getting a mixed, you know, I would get hundreds of letters. But I didn't write back that. In what time period? Hundreds? And I mean, I would say in the months after a documentary or the act came out. And it got to be where the prison no longer had physical mail. They have tablets now with its own email system. Oh, wow. Okay. So the emails would come in through that certain system. And it was hundreds, you know, over the course of the next few months after the act came out.

1:38:01I mean, that's exactly how I met my current boyfriend. I mean, that's – I met my current boyfriend before I met my ex-husband. Did you? Yes. So my current boyfriend, his name is Ken. Okay. Okay. He wrote me after watching Mommy Dead and Dearest. Okay. It was a supportive letter, not on any kind of romantic level. He gave me his work schedule. I gave him a call within five minutes of talking on the phone. I felt like we had known each other our whole lives besties. Really? All right, you have to help me on this. Because dating, this is a spot, an area that I know, but I don't know about prison dating.

1:38:44Yeah. All right. So he sends you a letter. In the letter, he includes his schedule. Yeah, like work time. This is my phone number. This is when I work. So he's already then approaching you in a romantic way. No. I mean, that's just calls are calls. I mean, it's not like you can, you know, do very much. But like calls is how you, you know, talk to people, get to know people. So you're getting hundreds of supportive mail and email. But how many of those are people trying that you believe are trying to actively engage in a romantic relationship with you? I mean, I would say about like 60 % of them.

1:39:30I have my own thoughts on that. Yes. Please, because I know that that is a fetish. Okay. I have my thoughts. Okay. Okay. My thought is that I didn't get a chance to watch the documentary until I was already out of prison. So upon watching the documentary, from what I kind of gather is, you know, watching my story and then kind of watching where I was at that time, I feel like men instinctually want to protect. And then I'm also a chronic flirt. so I can see how I can kind of go that route too. So that's my thoughts. Okay. Okay. All right. What was in the early time in prison, what do you believe your self-esteem levels were?

1:40:25Very low. Very low. Very low. Okay. All right. So it must have been a thrill then to get this supportive mail. Oh, of course. It's validation. It's external validation. Absolutely. Right. That I can also see it's very hard then to discern who to respond to. So you have an ongoing relationship or messaging back and forth with Ken. But then also, so then how does Ryan come into play? Ryan, okay, so Ken and I dated and my parents, you know, he got to meet my parents. we got engaged. After two years, we got engaged. Oh, my goodness. Okay. It made e-news. It was all over the news. It was all over every media tabloid.

1:41:16And he left me. Ken did? Yeah, he dumped me. In October, it was the day after his birthday, same year we got engaged, he left me and broke my heart. when I tell you we still sometimes have arguments about him you know I say abandoning because that you know prison was the time that I needed someone I needed support I needed someone to ride or die with me through the thick and the thin of it you know and I felt like he was going to be that one and for him to turn off all emotion and not answer my calls and then go on to get into another relationship he got with another girl literally two months after leaving me um and went on to have a four and a half year relationship with that woman And so also 2020 was the year of COVID.

1:42:24So Ryan wrote me during COVID after watching the documentary. And unfortunately, his was a lot different than Ken's, though. Ken, a friend of his named Diane, had watched my documentary first and was like, hey, you got to watch this documentary. It's so good. And they watched it together. whereas Ryan watched it then was at work having a conversation with a co-worker the co-worker said yeah I've been watching a lot of thing about Tiger King um and then Ryan was like well if you write Tiger King I'll write Gypsy Rose Blanchard and then it was on a dare okay and at the time I was like, okay, it's whatever.

1:43:12It's whatever. Um, so 2020 was a very lonely year for me. And he made me laugh. And there were many times that I felt like I was not physically attracted to him but I was getting emotional comfort so much so that you know when he was like I want to get married like there were several times I told him I'm like I just think of you like a brother or like I think of you like a cuddle buddy you know um but he was always just has to be romantic has to be romantic has to be romantic um and then later you know the the prison emails between us back and forth were released to the public oh my goodness and people could see how he was so aggressive at wanting the relationship or nothing and so essentially i married him for the wrong reasons, I was like, I felt like I settled.

1:44:25I felt like if I couldn't have Ken, I didn't want to die alone. And I wanted to at least prove to myself that I could maybe move past my heartbreak with Ken and go on to marry someone and be okay with just that. And I wasn't. We were married for like year and a half and and even the the marriage so the marriage the the actual wedding ceremony it must have taken place in prison it did in the visitation room by the bathroom wow okay romantic yes yes and and who who then attends your your wedding my the only person that attended was um my my friend the og friend um and my parents couldn't come i think because like the COVID stuff was still going on.

1:45:18So there was so much limiting how much interaction, how many people could come visit at one time, I think. So it was just my friend and that's it. So I have to ask this too, is by this time you had served how many years in prison? Seven, seven and a half. Okay. Seven and a half. Okay. You had served seven and a half years and you felt as if you had only a few more years left because you didn't know if you'd be released early or not. I had my parole hearing in December of 2021. Okay. And so I knew when I would be going home. I knew my release date at that time. So you knew you were within a year.

1:45:59Mm-hmm. So then Gypsy. Why do it? Why do it? Okay, well, because I was not paroling to the state of Missouri. I was paroling to the state of Louisiana. I had to enter into something called an interstate compact. So what that means is you can parole to a spouse or a family member, but you cannot parole to a boyfriend. So I could have paroled to my family. I had that option. Before I met Ryan, that was my plan. And then I met Ryan and then, of course, I wanted to live with my boyfriend who had been waiting a few years for me. So, you know, I just I struggled with do I go live with my family or do I go live with a partner that has been waiting for me?

1:46:54You know, and so that was the benefit of why then. OK, I see it. I see it. So what in the world happens? How do you two break up? Well, I get released. I get released and I go home with him. We had an apartment in Lake Charles. And I'm not going to say that I was unhappy. I was not unhappy. um we had taken a like a a trip to new york um because we were filming a reality tv show essentially um essentially or you were you were like you know it started a few days before i got out the re the gypsy rose life after lockup series and so we are navigating filming this show about my life present day and so that adds such an element of of stress to it i mean it was a wonderful show i'm i'm appreciative for the you know opportunity to go ahead and do it but it was a level of stress too because it's cameras all in your face i mean the very first night that i got out there's cameras in the bedroom with me and ryan wow and it's freaking me out because it's like my eyes were even trying to adjust to the color because in prison everything is so beige so you know gray it's colorless pretty much and out in the real world there's so many vibrant colors so like i'm adjusting to seeing colors and the last thing i want to do is be on a camera while my husband is trying to get groovy like right right this is not what i want to be doing right now right right right but but this is this is what's happening this is what's happening yeah oh my gosh so what then happens i mean i mean the cameras left so i mean they didn't get any sort of intimate anything um we consummated our marriage that night upon release um i mean there was like this whole thing called the d is fire and it was um i feel terrible for even saying this but But Ryan was like, please, whatever you do, don't embarrass me.

1:49:24Don't embarrass me. So I was like, I got you. I got you. Don't worry. No matter what it's like, I got you. You know? So this is your commentary on your first night together. Yeah. Sexually. Yeah. And you said that. I mean, I'm not going to say it was terrible. Now I've had better. Okay. So relatively speaking. Relatively speaking. It was not. It was mid. It was mid, as the kids say, yeah. So now I have to ask this is, was that, so you were how old at this point? 32. You're 32. 32. What I find interesting is you were in your teens, you know, I could see that you were trying to, you know, go through puberty.

1:50:13Like so many of us, you want to have a romantic relationship, right? you want to explore sex, you attempted, were unsuccessful at consensual sex. Was that your first time having consensual sex at 32? Yes. So that experience, what is that experience like for you? It's hard because I wasn't comfortable in my own skin and I wasn't comfortable. um i mean i hadn't had a lot of therapy therapy like one-on-one therapy to work on the trauma that i had experienced so you know unfortunately and and i told ryan this too i'm like i'm you know i'm really sorry but i just you know i feel like i have not gotten to a point where i could enjoy myself yeah um because i'm too busy thinking about the past yes and i'm just not there yet Yeah.

1:51:12And this this this makes sense, you know, to me, knowing that. You were, you know, your ex, we'll call him your ex, that he's going to do life in prison, knowing that your mother is no longer here and you played a role in her no longer being here. How do you feel leaving prison early? Leaving prison early. I mean, I couldn't, I'm going to be honest. I couldn't think of anything other than my own happiness at the time. Okay. That's fair. That's fair. And can we acknowledge that you are a public figure? You know, you are a celebrity. I hate that word. Okay. You're a public figure. I'll go with public figure.

1:52:01You are well known. You are well recognized. perhaps having one of the most recognizable childhoods of any, you know, American. How do you deal with the attention right when you get out? Because one thing that I was quite shocked at was how many people came to your support. It felt like, you know, if you look at your social media, for example, you were very quickly followed by millions of people. I mean, how does that feel? I was not expecting it. And I was not ready for it. When family and friends said, we're going to need to protect our girl because she doesn't know what she's coming out to.

1:52:55I was expecting hate. I was expecting, you know, I was going to be hated like Casey Anthony is hated. But it was the opposite. Like you said, I gained millions of followers, which my brain couldn't even wrap my head around what 9 million followers on TikTok and 9 million followers on Instagram even is. and then going just to Walmart, going to the grocery store, going to a mall, having people run up to you and want to take a selfie with you and things like this. None of that I was prepared for. And so, yes, it was flattering. But at the same time, I also had people that I have weird reactions to because it's like some people are like, I would have did exactly what you did.

1:53:46And I'm just like, please don't. Um, I'm not trying to be out here advocating for murder. This is not how you become famous. This is the result of what happens when tragedy meets tragedy meets tragedy again and again and again. And the system fails and people get hurt. There's so many more stories of childhood abuse that don't get talked about. But the only ones that we want to recognize are the ones that a Lifetime series and a Netflix show, an HBO show, and worldwide attention is thrust upon. Why not not take some of that spotlight and give it to all the victims? Because I'm not the face of Munchausen by proxy.

1:54:43I never wanted to be, never claimed to be. This is my life. Y 'all made me this. I didn't. Yeah. Powerful. It's powerful. I could see that in particular, that this is an area that now, it's interesting. It's been given to you. You didn't ask for this. but this platform, if you will, has been handed to you. And I can see that you acknowledge that. So coming out of then prison, you have this attention, but you're still married. Then you have the television show, right? I'm also curious though about how you begin to adjust to life because from what I understand, this is your first time now living life in your 30s.

1:55:44Yeah. It's your first time walking down a street without having your mom. Yeah, or a prison guard. Or a prison guard. Yeah. Yeah. This is your first time, what, turning on a television? And just be like, I would have watched this show, you know? Your first time interacting with people. Yeah. you know what was that like it felt so freeing and and everything was trial and error everything okay um you know learning learning how to cook learning how to do this and learning how to do that like at the time I got out I didn't know how to drive like I didn't have a driver's license I never drove a car before so this is all stuff I felt like I was learning how to be going through a teen year, a 20s, and now landing in 30s and supposed to be exactly where I'm supposed to be.

1:56:45And people watched me go through many different fails, many different challenges. people have often said like tell me to act my age i tell them can you give me the 23 years that i was with my mom or the eight and a half years i was in prison and got to miss out on all this so please do give me another 32 to catch up okay you know yes i'm making decisions on my own and trying to figure out what's right. And I'm doing it in front of the world. Yes. Yes. So you feel the pressure. Yes. Blame me all you want of making stupid life decisions that a teen would make. But you feel like that there's... There's nothing that I have done that would feel like someone could justify saying that I'm a bad person.

1:57:50Not in that way. But yet, do you hear that? You hear those statements? Oh, yeah, I hear those statements all the time. I mean, what are they? What are those statements, and who's saying them? I mean, it's just mostly online trolls. They might be username 78910. But you don't know if it's bots or if it's people with actual opinions. But opinions, everybody has one. And, you know, all that I have done in my life since out of prison is learn who I am. And like I say, I'm not perfect, but whatever it is, whether it be I had my daughter out of wedlock, I divorced my ex-husband, they throw that in my face like that's a crime.

1:58:46And I'm like, if you would realize there are much, that's not the worst thing. Okay. Be thankful that the little stupid shit is just all I'm doing. Yes. Yes. Yes. So you decided to divorce Ryan. Was it in order to have a relationship with Ken? you knew you were going to have one, or it was the chance at having a relationship with Ken? It was the chance. Okay. It was not a guaranteed thing at first. Okay. So I started to drop those hints to Ryan. And then one night, it was actually on Valentine's Day of 2024. Okay. And I woke him up that day. And instead of being like, I love you, honey, I woke him up telling him how I had a dream about Ken and I missed Ken.

1:59:46Wow. And so I was always very brutally honest. I was like, I wasn't meaning to hurt his feelings, but I'm kind of like, this is where I'm at with it. Can we have a conversation about it? Yes. So nothing was ever kept from him in the dark. He was not blindsided about how I felt about Ken. He knew. um and so one night I had put a note by his bed and I said I'm so sorry you know here's the ring back so he came home he saw that he crumpled it up through it kind of cried or whatever in the room for a little bit while I posted up in this separate bedroom and then an argument had happened. And in this argument, he's yelling at me and he is standing by the bedroom door and he opens it up really quickly as I'm like, can we just have a conversation about this?

2:00:50And he opens it up a little too quickly and steps forward a little faster than I'm used to. and it triggered me. Now, is he a violent person? No. Would he ever hurt me? I don't feel like he would. But in that moment, I felt triggered. And so I call my sister. And I'm like, Ryan and I are arguing. Like, I felt like he came at me. Can you please come pick me up? so my sister comes pick me up i spend a few days with her and then i go to my stepmom and dad's house and i file for divorce um a friend of a family acquaintance unfortunately talked to the media and proceeded to tell tmz that ryan threatened me that he was abusive i never said Ryan was abusive.

2:01:55I said he came at me and was in my face yelling, which he was. But is he an abuser? No. So I wanted to clarify that up. I never claimed Ryan was abusive. Okay. Okay. You were only triggered. I was triggered. I had not had a lot of therapy, if any, at that point. Okay. And so I had not dealt with certain situations like yelling, arguments, stuff like that. Again, I had been in prison. And my defense is like, okay, I'm going to leave the situation. Yes. I'm going to, if anything pops off that I don't like, I'm leaving. I didn't leave before, but I sure as fuck will now. Yes. Didn't you file a temporary, it was temporary, but a restraining order against Ryan?

2:02:47That was not, it was not a restraining order in that way. Okay. So my lawyer, divorce attorney, handled everything. She took care of it all. I made no requests. She's like, we're going to do this, this, this, and this. I didn't understand any of it. I was like, okay, whatever you feel is best is best. The restraining order pertained to our finances. The restraining order basically said you can't touch the money that's in the joint checking account without it being for things like necessities. You can't go out and buy a car. So it just put a halt to our finances. Okay. And this makes sense to me as well, because I would imagine, given the volume of television shows that were out about you and the interest, that there was probably a significant amount of money made in that period of time.

2:03:46And you were married. So now it becomes this. Now it's our money. It's our, it's a joint asset. Yeah. So was that the main challenge with the divorce was then how do you split that and unravel that? We actually, my lawyer said that I could get 50, you know, half and a half. Okay. So we halved and halved it. Whatever was in the joint checking at the time, we halved it, halved it. Okay. Took a half. Even though, I mean, quite honestly, it seems like the money was generated because of you. I mean, there was probably only about$40 ,000 that was in that account at the time. Okay. Because the show money came in like so many months.

2:04:35It didn't come in one chunk. Okay, okay. So by the time that all of the show money came in, I had already moved banks, had my own bank. okay fair enough so then you two split the chance of me and ken getting back together i wasn't sure it wasn't a for sure thing i wanted to at least see him we hadn't seen each other in four and a half five years so i wanted to see am i am i crazy or do you know do we still have this like spark. Yes. So he came to visit me at my parents' house. Comes, we meet up, we decide we're going to get a hotel in New Orleans and we're going to go do an airboat tour. We're going to go do a, you know, whole New Orleans day trip.

2:05:26Yes. And the, the level when I tell you, I don't know how to ever explain the love and happiness that I felt I hope that everybody in the world gets to experience that feeling of happiness and just in love everywhere like it was amazing and I knew I just knew I'm like this I'm in love this is it and I know what I have to do Yes. And then you said then a month late. So then you're together then for a month. And then a month after that. I got pregnant. We had got back together. We had had a weekend of having that New Orleans weekend. Had a great time. He comes back a month later. And that's when I got pregnant.

2:06:27And then I find out a month later that I was pregnant. Wow. Yeah. I'd like to show you a photo. Okay. Ready? Oh, boy. Okay. Now, you ready for this? Yeah. What is happening in this photo? Who are you with? Yeah. Aww. So, this is the day that my daughter was born. Okay. So, this is Ken. And this is our baby girl, Aurora. All right. This photo was taken one year. after I got out. Really? She was born on December 28th of 2024. Okay. I got out December 28th of 2023.

2:07:15You could not have planned that. I mean, that is incredible. I did not know that it was one year. One year. To the date. Yes. So this is your purpose. This is my purpose. To be a mommy. I think it is. I mean, I think it's, um, it's healing. Of course, when I knew I was, when I found out I was pregnant, a lot of people were like, you know, how do you feel becoming a mom? Um, not having a great mom yourself. And of course it's like, I can, I can say this and that in an interview thinking, okay, well maybe this is my, how I might feel, but it wasn't until I had had her, She was two weeks old. I was rocking the recliner and I looked at her and there was just something that hit me.

2:08:03It felt like I was going through trauma all over again by thinking to myself, how can a parent ever hurt or cause any harm to their child or any child? and I just started to cry and I held her close. I'm all losing. Sorry. The dark. I held her close and I was like, I love you. I love you so much and mommy's never going to let anything happen to you because in my in my heart i felt like i was hugging a baby me i just felt like i wanted to love her like i wasn't and i wanted to give her everything that i wasn't and it just hurt and it felt good at the same time I'm sorry I tell you what you never have to apologize for allowing us all you know to see you in your emotion that's all you wanted that's all you wanted as a little girl was to feel loved was to feel safe and isn't it so interesting what life gives you yeah right and now here you're in a moment where you're going you didn't receive it but you're going to be able to give it yep and it also gives like my dad a second chance too because you know my dad didn't get a chance to be around in my life as much as he wanted and so now watching my dad be a part of her life too is also very healing too yes yes look at that that relationship with your father now Yeah.

2:10:27Yeah. Yeah. When you, Gypsy, think about the future, you know, the next chapter, right? What are your dreams? You know, there's my professional life and then there's my personal life. And my personal life, I want to have another child, get married, you know, buy a house. And then in their professional space, I personally am starting my own podcast. There you go. Love it. And so this podcast is going to be conversations, real conversations like this that you're having with me about people who have gone through trauma, but also have been defined by the worst moments in their life. and it's a redemption of how do they get from there to where they want to be.

2:11:29It's a real one-on-one conversation and it's not just celebrities. We're talking average people. We're talking celebrities. We're talking anybody because everybody has had trauma. Everybody has had something happen to them. And no trauma is greater than anyone else's trauma. trauma is trauma and it is so therapeutic to talk about it with someone especially when that someone has gone through trauma themselves yes yes uh i'm with you i think more conversation needs to be had so that we can normalize the fact that trauma is an experience that we all go through and to your point is is that and then you can come out on the other side exactly right you can heal heal from And I think given the platform that's been thrusted upon you, that's probably one of the best ways to use it.

2:12:27Yeah, the best spaces. Yeah. There is something I like to end on. There's a question that everyone gets. But before that, I have one last thing that I want to show you. Are you ready for this? Yeah. All right. Get ready. Okay. Okay. Here it comes. All right. So now this is my favorite photo of the entire batch. Okay. I want you to tell me who's in this photo. Okay. Okay. and then I have a question for you about this photo. Ready? Aw, that's me. Look at that. Look at you. That's me. Yes. Do you know roughly how old you are in this? Oh, goodness. Maybe two? Okay, yes. So this is young you. This is a very, very young you.

2:13:15All right. This is you and what I'm sure you would consider to be good times. Okay. So what I'd love for you to do is tell me what you would like to tell her.

2:13:39I would tell her that she's loved. And then life is going to be hard. Life is going to be really hard. But do not give up. Because your daddy loves you. Your daddy loves you a lot. And so does Auntie Christy. And your brother and your sister. They love you very much. And someday, a little girl is going to love you. You're going to mean everything to her. And everything you wanted in life is going to happen for you. But you're going to have to be strong. You're going to have to be very, very strong.

2:14:37You know what? She was.

2:14:42she was. You're making me cry. No. You know what? What I love, what I have loved about it, and I'll hold on to that. I love, I think it's such a beautiful photo. I love it. Very stylish, by the way. Those overalls. Those overalls. You know, I wear overalls to this day. Really? Yeah. Actually, I think I have your entire outfit. Oh, my goodness. I think I have that. What I have, I think, appreciated most from you in this conversation is I feel like there's been a sense of vulnerability and openness and light to you in this conversation that I've loved. Your level of reflection will stay with me.

2:15:42this is hands down it's one of the most memorable conversations that I've had, been doing this podcast for the last two years you've exceeded my expectation in terms of your

2:16:02your transparency in the story you know and I wish you all all of the most amazing, amazing things that this life can give you. Thank you. And most importantly is I wish you the ability to give yourself beyond grace but forgiveness. I'll work on it. Yes. I'll work on it. There is a final question that everyone gets. And that question is this. Gypsy, you've had some phenomenal conversations in your life. Yes. When you think about the most memorable conversation, who was it with and what did you learn?

2:16:59Would it be too cheesy to say you? It wouldn't be. um okay so this has to be a really good conversation in all the times that i have done interviews i have never had anyone really listen to me um until now and give me the freedom to share whatever I wanted to.

2:17:30So thank you for that. You are welcome. You're welcome. I wish you the best in your advocacy work. There are millions of people who adore you, right? And now, having met you, I understand why. You're going to have to come on my podcast. Oh, yeah. I'm there. We can unpack my trauma. Yay! I'm from New York. I have a lot of trauma. Okay. We look forward to it. We're going to talk. We do need to talk. Gypsy. Rose Blanchard. I've never had a conversation like that. Ever. And I think this conversation is going to surprise quite a large number of people. the constant theme to me is the desire for love.

2:18:31And it just goes to show how this is a core human need. And you see the consequence of that. This is the reason why healing from trauma is so important because you can see what happens if you go through trauma, you see and behave differently. Mental health needs to be paramount in terms of our responsibility as family members, friends, colleagues. Mental health is everything. What's up, good people? If you've made it this far, let me tell you, I appreciate you. You are truly part of this community and you like long episodes. But quite honestly, this doesn't go unnoticed. Now, if you haven't already, I want you to hit subscribe it's right here and if you've really enjoyed this conversation i know you're gonna love this one