“I Don’t Define My Sexuality!” Lorna Luxe EXCLUSIVELY Shares The Truth About Her Marriage

40:13Really? Yes. I must have seen this video. Yes. Well, technically you were in it. Was I in it? Yeah. Yeah, you were in the video. But meeting John, what was that moment when you met him? Because you were still at Virgin. I was still at Virgin. Okay. And I'd done a four-night Antigua. I really liked the crew on that trip. And I remember there was a guy on the crew who was quite – He'd been there quite a long time. He's a bit older. And he was like, I'll set you up with one of my mates. You're going to be fine. You don't need to date that sports guy. He was a cricketer and this guy loved cricket.

40:46And so when I told him I'd split up with this guy, he was like, oh, well, he was rubbish at cricket anyway. So you better off without him. And I thought, I like you. You're a good guy. And so that Saturday, that weekend when we got back from Antigua, me and a couple of the girls on that flight decided to go out in Brighton. And we went into a bar and I spotted the guy that was on the flight. Not planned. He just happened to be there as well. Okay. And he was with John. That was his friend. And the story, as John says, is that he saw me walk in the bar and he was like, I couldn't take my eyes off you.

41:16And so I said to him, my mate said he knew me. And so he said to Steve, can you introduce me to that girl? And so he said, yeah, come on, we'll go and chat to them. And I couldn't understand why this guy was just talking at me. And he was going through a divorce. He was talking, sort of trauma dumping and really like offload. And I was like, oh, my God. but very sweet. And then we went to a nightclub and they kind of hung on. We were like, we're going to go to the club now. And they were like, okay, welcome. And I remember having about 60 quid left in my bank account. And I said to John and the other guys, I was like, can I get you a drink?

41:53And I don't think John heard what I said. So I just went and got them drinks. And then when I brought the drinks back, it was like 40 quid. So I was like, I've only got 20 quid left now for the rest till Monday. And I remember him saying, oh, you didn't have to buy me a drink. And I was like, oh, no, I wanted to. And I think he was really touched by that. And so he said, can I have your number? And I was like, no, but I'll have yours. And then that very night when I got in, I texted him and just said it was lovely to meet you. And that was kind of how we met. Look at that. Look at that. And then what happened next?

42:29Because I think that's the part in everyone's romance story that we want to hear. Because that was beautiful. Yeah, that was cute. That was cute. That was cute. That was cute. But then what happened next? Yeah. How does the relationship actually form? So he was quick on the texts. Okay. And so once he had my number, he asked me out on a date. He gave me options, which I now realize is a very John thing to do. It's not because he's not confident. He's just, you know, these are your options. So the text message was so long, it was like an essay. Okay. And I remember just replying back, Browns, 7 p.m.

43:05And that was it. So he gave you options, different restaurants. Yeah. And I was being cool and whatever. And I liked that he was over keen. And I remember I arrived early, but he'd already been there an hour waiting. And he'd got a bottle of wine, not a glass. And I liked that. I was like, this guy's confident. And he's older. He's 21 years older. So he had an innate confidence about him that I just really was attracted to. And he was very kind. I mean, that's the takeaway from anyone that meets John. is just genuinely kind. And we just got into this rhythm of dating and every date we would always go back to his place for a nightcap.

43:43And I would never stay over. But when I left, there would always be a gift. He'd always gone to somewhere, like he went to Space NK or he went to, you know, L 'Occitane or wherever and he'd always get me some kind of beauty or skincare goodies in a little bag. And this went on for weeks. And also, the cab back to his was eight quid from Kemptown to Hove. Oh my goodness. But he always gave me a£20 note when I got in the cab. So he was almost like taking care of me. And me and the girls I was friends with there in Hove used to laugh and be like, you're always 12 quid up on a date with him. And at first I just thought, oh yeah, I'm just dating this older guy.

44:23Like it's a bit of fun, that kind of thing. I'm not really, you know, it's not going to go anywhere. But slowly I really started to like him. And I was like, well actually I do quite like this guy. and this was obviously fresh off the back of me splitting up with my ex-boyfriend so i was looking for somewhere new to live and he was going through a divorce so he was looking for somewhere to live and so i would go house hunting with him and he was looking at these extravagant beautiful places and then he'd come with me looking for these rentals that were like really bad and then one day he just said why don't we just buy together and i'll get now how long had you we're talking each other three months three months okay and um he was like but i'll get my lawyer to put into writing that you can just if you want to walk away at any moment you need to take your money and it's cool i respect that and any equity that's in the property and i was like this is a good deal and his lawyer as well was a bit like john why are you doing this um so we so then that was it so i remember i expressly told him that when i bought my old flat with my ex-boyfriend that that was my dream road.

45:28I loved that road. And I was gutted that I was having to move out and move somewhere else. So he found a really beautiful apartment on this road and he took me to see it. And I was like, my God, this is amazing. And he was like, good, because I've just made an offer. Should we buy it? And so he kind of bought my dream home. Wow. He wasn't playing games. I'd say he was not playing. He was like. Fellas, take notes. He was not playing. He wasn't. And he always says, like, I knew from the day I met you that you were it for me. That I was never letting this one go. And he was just so determined. Yeah.

46:04Which I really respect and admire. But for, I think, a lot of people, until my mum met him, she was worried. Like, she was listening to these stories down the phone. She's up in Manchester. And she's like, who's this guy? And, like, I need to meet him. And then when she met him, she understood. Sure. But you know how, so it's interesting because I can empathize and sympathize with how John moved. Yeah. Because I didn't have those resources, but that's how I moved with my wife. Yeah. Very intentional, not playing around. No. I want to express how serious I am. And I felt like I was in love day one.

46:41Yeah. You know, I feel like that's exactly where John was. Oh, he totally was. But for a lot of people, they'll enter a relationship with someone who is love bombing them, you know, it coming from a nefarious position. So how did you know what John, you know, what he was doing? How did you know that that was authentic, that it wasn't an act? I didn't give it too much thought. I just really trusted him straight away and felt very safe with him. his brother is epileptic and is a year older than him but has pretty much lived in an institution or a care home since he's been a kid and the care that he showed his brother like blew my mind and that empathy he has for his brother I think has built has made him into the man he is today so he's got a naturally caring way about him and always wanting to do he'll do anything for anyone he'll give anyone anything he's got and I liked that because I really saw that was quite an admirable trait to have.

47:47Okay. And it made me feel good to be with someone like that. Yes. It was just really quite a nice person. I like that word that you used immediately. I felt safe with him. Yeah, I did. Yes. And he would just protect me from everything and I felt like this guy is just going to look after me and this is a solid person. Yes. and quickly got engaged and quickly got married. How long? I think in total a year and a half from meeting to getting married. Okay, that is quick. Yeah. That's quick. Were there concerns from any friends or family members at all? No, I think I didn't have massive family and everyone that had met him seemed to really like him.

48:34my friends they were they were just quite self-focused at that period they were people that had their own lives going on their own issues, quite dramatic had quite a dramatic group of friends so they weren't really bothered they were looking forward to the party the wedding was going to be good right so they liked and also John was very generous so you know they enjoyed being around John he'd pay for everyone's dinners there was always champagne in Alfred so it was always you know we were a good a solid friendship to have yes and yeah no one really expressed any concern I think his his dad a little bit did and his dad's wife pretty much said to me you you shouldn't do this you're not thinking this through she was kind of keen to dissuade me and I think maybe that came from experience because she was married to his dad and she was the same age gap oh 21 years I think about that yeah so I think she was trying to say look you know it's great it's all hunky-dory now and you're 25 and he's 46 but wait until you know you're 60 and he's 80 there'll be a big difference yes and that's what she was in and I couldn't I couldn't really understand that and I still can't to be honest yeah you know what so interesting about that is that there is research to suggest this something like this And what the research shows is that where you see a large age gap, so 10 years or more in either direction, what you see is much higher satisfaction or higher satisfaction in the early stages of the relationship.

50:16Yeah. You know, it's not to say that the satisfaction level goes down, but it just goes to show that the satisfaction in the early stages is higher than if there's no age gap. I think because you're teaching each other things, right? And he said I made him feel alive and there was excitement and, you know, he's taken away on lots of trips. He loved my lifestyle. And he, in turn, made me feel really safe, really cherished and loved. And genuinely gave me the breathing space to try and figure out what I want to do in my life. And certainly, obviously, I was battling an eating disorder. but alongside that I was also growing as a woman and growing in confidence and you know he encouraged all of that and it wasn't you can't do this he just wanted to help me do whatever I wanted to do so at that time when you got married how old were you?

51:15I got married on my 26th birthday oh wow so you were 26 so he was 47 26, 47 now at that point were you online at that point or no i was on facebook you're on facebook so so there's no one saying look at this no there was no one no one no one critical about that relationship okay and you didn't feel you felt like it was it didn't matter because you're with someone who you love i had reservations in terms of i'd never other than my nan and granddad i'd never really seen a marriage last and I remember my bridesmaid saying to me outside the door before we went in she said to me well at the end of the day if it doesn't work out you can just get divorced and I was like yeah no I'm not really worried and I in my head and I've told John this before that's how I approached it I didn't see it as a lifelong commitment the way he did I saw it as a well this will do for now and it really suits me and I really love him but if that things change It's fine.

52:22And it's only as I've been married longer and longer, I recognize that actually that was a stupid thing to think. That's interesting. And it doesn't make any sense. This is so interesting to me because I believe that more and more people view marriage as you viewed it going in. And that is that this thing that we have is disposable. So we can walk into it and we can walk out. Right. It was like a mortgage. harder to get out of a mortgage in the way I looked at it yeah but then there's other people it sounds like this is how John thought is John sounds like he his thought was this is this is it yeah he did now you mentioned that he had gone through a divorce so he was married previously twice before yeah twice before yeah so what was so walking into this one your thought is that he believed this was it.

53:16He was not going to be married again. He always said to me, I've never been in love before. I promise you that. And I believe him. Or at least the love he experienced with me, he'd never felt before. So I never felt as though it was, you know, for him, he likes wedding cake, you know, it's just another jolly. I really did believe he was committed to me fully. And I liked that feeling. Yes. There's something really lovely about having loyalty and that person that's never going to drop you. You know, I'm never going to be chasing after John down the driveway. He's always going to be there for me.

53:54And I thought I could see how important that was. And that's what I needed. You just mentioned you'll never have to chase him down the driveway like you did your father. Do you see any connection between your father walking out when you were four and your feeling of comfort with John being 21 years older than you? Do you see any connection? I actually see more of a connection with John and my granddad. Okay. Because my granddad was that saving person that cuddled me when everything was going wrong and I would sit and eat rubbish food within the evenings and watch snooker and crap telly. So he was my comfort.

54:40And when I met John, I always thought, because granddad had died by the time I met John, but I always thought, you're a lot like my granddad. You've got a similar personality. Yes. Calm, like very stoic, very, you know, reliable and charismatic. Yes. You know, he was, he ticked all those boxes for me. Yes. And even my mum has said, I can see, you know, those similarities. And so I never, I never put him in the realm of my dad. If anything, my ex-boyfriend reminded me of my dad. there definitely must be daddy issues going on here but i've i've always kind of like kept them away from john because i don't want to spoil what you have what i have because we've had it for so long as well now yeah i don't want to ever think badly of john or because it won't be it won't be him it'll be me but i don't want to tarnish what is a really good relationship yeah no i mean Clearly, you have love.

55:38Yeah, we have. We absolutely love each other. You have love. You know what's even interesting, too, is that I think that you could read a lot about someone based on the images that they post online. I truly do. Even though we're all trying to present the best representation of ourselves, I think there are certain things that you could read into someone's profile. and it's interesting because my wife and I we were going through yours we did this long stalk of yours and I said you know one thing is clear she loves him and he loves her and that there is no question there is no question and but I when I think about your story I think there is a parallel between John and your father and I'll tell you this is that there's a researcher her name is Dr.

56:32Margot Main. Okay. She has a theory called father hunger. Oh, God. I know where this is going. Have you ever heard of this theory? I haven't, but just those two words together. Where do you think I'm going with this? That craving for the perfect dad, right? So it's not the craving for the perfect dad, But it is specifically when a father has abandoned his family, typically before the age of what? Five. The child craves safety, emotional connection, stability. And if they, if, if when the father leaves and that doesn't happen, they spend the rest of their life in search of that. Yeah. And typically they end up meeting someone who's much older.

57:35God. 10, 15, 21 years. And immediately what they see in that person is different. because there's other people that could see someone who's 20 years older and say, oh, look at this icky old man, you know, this perverted old man. Yeah. But there's others that quickly see stability, safety, structure. And I believe that's what you saw very quickly. I totally did. Yeah. And I loved those things. I mean, obviously, I still fancied him. He was a good-looking guy. We had a lot in common. Yes. like we love the same art we love the same jokes do you know i mean we finish each other's sentences he has his own language that only i can understand so there's that but that a lot of that's built right over time but there was initial moment of yeah i felt immediately this is perfect this is what i need right now because it's not been the best couple of years um but i would do that all over again like that's one relationship that i would you know what i mean if i was given lots of different avenues i would always do the same thing yes why not i mean it goes to show that when we go through trauma in our lives that there are there's a silver lining cloud to it yeah there's a blessing that could come from it and the blessing for you was that you've met the love of your life Yeah.

59:02You know, who you may not have maybe formed as quick connection with if it wasn't for that trauma. True. That you had. That's a nice way of spinning it. Yeah. Look, we have a lot of reality TV stars on We Need to Talk, and I'm always talking to them after the recording about what's happening in their lives. And you know what always comes up is that they all are building their own businesses. They are their own brands. And what amazes me most is between filming, interviews, events, and creating content, they actually have the time to run a business too. But when I ask how they do it, almost everyone gives the same answer.

59:41They're using Shopify, which also happens to be a sponsor of this show. You probably know Shopify as the platform that helps you sell products around the world, managing things like shipping, inventory, and returns. But what I didn't know is how much more it can do. Shopify's AI integration writes copy, enhances photos, and even creates campaigns. If you're starting your own business and need extra help, visit shopify.co.uk slash needtotalk to sign up for your one pound per month trial. I was talking with your show sponsor, Tinder, and they wanted to know if you've ever been on a date that ended up in an unexpected way.

1:00:23Do you have anything like that? Oh, absolutely. Endless, endless stories. I mean, one in particular is that when Jill and I were dating, we went to a slam poetry competition, which I will say I knew nothing about slam poetry. And that's when I learned that you snap your fingers, right, when you applaud. I specifically went there because I wanted to impress Jill so that I can get a little, I'll say, bonus afterwards, you know. But what I learned through one of the poets is that we are all artists. The poet specifically said we are all artists. And that triggered something in me. It made me click to the point where I realized that I wanted to create.

1:01:00I wanted to figure out how to do that. So afterwards, we went out to eat, Jill and I, and we started talking about creating art together. And I learned from that date that, you know, the date isn't just about the other person. It's not about your physical pleasure. It's not about their physical pleasure. It's about what you can learn about life, about yourself. It was an unexpected outcome from a date. So wherever a date may lead, it starts with a swipe. That's why you need to download Tinder.

1:01:32Now you mentioned that you didn't have children. No. So this is a topic that I know that many people have commented on. Yeah, they have. Was this a conscious decision on both of your parts not to have children? So we did try to have children. So I think fresh off getting married, I was a bit like, you know, my eating disorder was taking hold. What do I do next? Maybe I need a child. Maybe that will fix my problems. So we tried. I think we tried for about six months. And then I remember saying to him, do you know what? I'm just not really into this. I don't even know if I want one. And he said, you know, I married you, not your ovaries.

1:02:08He was like, I really do want a child with you, but it's not the be all and end all for me. As long as I've got you, everything else is just, you know, a bonus. Yes. So I said, well, let's revisit this because, you know, I'm younger than you, so men can have babies forever. I've got a bit more time on the clock, so let's just revisit it. And we've never really discussed it since. and I'm definitely at that age now where I think, oh, dear me, and every time I meet people in my age bracket, they go, freeze your eggs. You should freeze your eggs. I don't know if... One thing me and him did have in common is that we were both kind of fat kids, and we both always joke, you know, God, if we had kids, they'd be burdened with all of our ailments, basically, of, you know, not liking their body and having a slow metabolism and having...

1:03:03And I'm joking about it because I now know that's not important, but it's our little joke to each other that kind of gets us off the hook. As if to say that's why we didn't do it, because we wouldn't be very good at it. And certainly I think now when he's so poorly, I don't know if I could be a mum right now and be a good mum because all my energy is on him. So any spare minute I've got, it's focused on what's going on with him. I'm sure I could be a good mum. but do you know what I mean? Yes. Even my dog is staying with my mum at the minute because I haven't got the capacity for a little fluffy white Maltese terrier.

1:03:40Yeah. So that's where you deal with it, don't you? You just deal with your lot. Yeah, you do, you do. You know, one area too that I want to talk about but we'll go as deep or not as deep as we want to talk about is John in particular, what's going on now. Yeah. Right? Because you've alluded to this in the conversation. Yeah. So John is not well. Yeah, so he's had cancer. He had cancer, esophageal cancer, which he had chemotherapy for and had an operation to remove. They took out all his stomach. They made him a new stomach. Oh, wow. So it was a big operation. Then he was cancer-free, effectively, in remission.

1:04:18And then they discovered that he had adrenal cancer. But the adrenal gland is like a hormone. It controls all your hormones in your body. And this was a bit trickier because it meant that they couldn't necessarily just go in and rip it out. so they kind of said you're going to be living with cancer and we're just going to give you chemotherapy and radiotherapy and we're going to manage it and then in the midst of all this he got diagnosed with a brain tumor a little tumor on the back of his brain which they took out with cyber knife then got rid of so i was like there's something about you but you're like they just can't you know you're going to just live forever and that was all hunky-dory and then about January, February of this year he went to chemotherapy on his own and there's a huge guilt around him going to chemo on his own if I'm working or doing anything there's a real it makes me sad but he'd gone on his own and he got there and he fell down the stairs in the hospital and he fell down the stairs landed onto the lap of a nurse and she got him cleaned up and he'd really gashed his legs and these wounds just wouldn't heal because of the chemotherapy treatment his body just couldn't heal these wounds and this is what the source of the infection that's currently put him in hospital and i thought he'd be in for a few days and they'd sort him out give him a load of antibiotics and he'd be home and he's been in a month now and his infection levels just weren't coming down there's been days where he's got no idea he knows who i am but he's talking absolute gobbledygook it's pretty scary and weirdly he's using food to control his situation there so he stopped eating and i asked him why are you not eating he was like because it's the only thing I can control so I'm watching someone you know pretty much fade away in front of my eyes and it took maybe in I think last week was the week where I really had to kind of get a grip and think hang on he's not getting this that if he doesn't start eating and he's not gonna get out of here alive and we kind of had that chat and in the last three days there's been a marked improvement so I've seen I I don't think I would have been able to come sit chat to you today had that not happened but it's happened so i'm like god for that yes and i can you know we're talking to the doctors about getting him home and stuff but that is as really for me i just thought cancer and this is how people die but actually a lot of the can the issues with his cancer are nothing to do with the cancer it's all the other things that come with it that i just wasn't prepared for and yeah i've struggled with it because it felt so fast as well.

1:06:53We woke up one morning with a sore knee. The infection had spread to his knee and he couldn't walk. So I called an ambulance, like you do. And they came and took him and I thought I'll pack a few things in his bag because he might have to stay overnight. I was so naive to what was actually playing out in front of me. So to see him really losing lots of weight, he didn't have any weight to lose, has been tricky for me because I thought I'm failing him here and he's always looked after me always cared for me and now it's my turn to repay the favour and step up and we don't live near any family or friends so it really is just me and one man band and it's been a lot actually because I've kind of thought I could maybe not mention this online but I found quite a lot of comfort chatting about it because I've been coming home at night from the hospital with a glass of wine and a piece of cheese because I friends obviously rang me and stuff but then what do you do you sit on your phone don't you I'm too distracted to go and watch a film or read a book so I've just been on my phone chatting to people and the comfort that that's brought me you know Instagram TikTok all these platforms get a lot of get a bad rep for being a place of negativity or you know creating false narratives for me it's been quite the opposite that's where I found the best advice where I found a lot of maternal people wanting to just take care of me um give me good ideas I've really like got a source of support there that I've not got anywhere else so it's been yeah it's been a bit of a saving grace to be honest yeah that's incredible I haven't ever heard someone position social media in that way but I can see how it is it's it's been incredible for you oh I mean in in every instance since I've been on that platform it's been the opposite of what people say my mum made a good point to me when I told her I was coming to see you and was like, what we're going to talk about, I don't know.

1:08:48And she said, if you do talk about social media, you should always remember how, when I first went on Instagram and I was so scared of putting on weight because there's that control, I would use editing apps to edit my body. And she said that saved my life because she said, you didn't have to starve yourself. You could just make it a bit skinnier. And it's so unhealthy that we know now that that's a really bad thing to do. And I had to stop that. And I'm sure lots of girls have done this where they've tweaked their face or, you know, snatched their waistline. And again, that's a really negative thing to do.

1:09:25But actually, in that period, mum says, if you didn't have that, I worry for you. Yes. Because you would have had to do it physically. Yes. And you would have been really poorly. Yeah. Because you were just so dysmorphic that you couldn't see how small you were. Absolutely. so in there's been lots of instances through social media where you'd think oh that would be a bad thing but actually it's been a good thing for me but it's been helpful yeah so what have you learned through social media that's been helpful with you managing john not being home in the moment really practical stuff so you know every time i'll go online i'll just be honest and say this is what's gone on and people will message well i've had this did you try that I mean, proper practical advice has been great.

1:10:10But also just words of encouragement and me maybe feeling a bit low and other people sensing that and just saying, you're doing all right. You need it. Like sometimes it's not enough to just come from you more and more from family. You need that validation from people that you don't know so well, or I do anyway. and it's made me well up a few times this week when I've read messages I thought oh my god they're going to set me off because there's a lot of love there and I think the story that I'm going through is quite common so this isn't you know it's not a unique you know we're not a unicorn couple where no one else has been through this so many people have been through this trauma this is in particular why I wanted to have this conversation with you okay because this also blew my mind one in two people one in two people in the uk will be diagnosed with cancer in their lifetime yeah i mean i mean it's interesting because i cannot think of anyone in my close circle where cancer has not impacted or touched us yeah in in some way yep you know and to your point is it feels like it all happens very quickly it's felt so fast.

1:11:31And it's like having the rug pulled from under you. Life's all just going a bit too good. I always used to say I feel like, when I met John, I feel like the bubble's going to burst. And the bubble burst the day he got his cancer diagnosis. And he changed as a person when he had his operation, when he had his esophagus and his stomach removed. I felt like they took a piece of him away that he's never really got back. Because he had to relearn to eat and relearn a new lifestyle. listen I know I had an eating disorder but our love language was going out and that's just been taken away we've been robbed of it because he can't do those things in an enjoyable way so he's really been you know I feel like he's had a lot of a lot of his enjoyment stolen from him and yet he's still determined to show up and like turn up and he did say in the hospital to me even yesterday I wouldn't I don't think I would have kept fighting if I'd not had like you coming to see me every day almost like I was doing him a favor and I was like of course I'm gonna come see you every day like what are you talking about yeah and yeah it's just it's so sad like it's such a it's so frustrating there's so many emotions you go through yes yes you know my um my father-in-law passed away due to cancer and the feeling that I had that came over me was how unfair I felt it was for my wife.

1:13:03Yeah. And unfair it was for his wife, you know, and it's just, it was just, it was unfair to the point where I felt angry because it felt so unfair. Like, like we were being robbed. Yeah. I've had those feelings. Yeah. On his behalf as well. I think selfishly I've had that feeling of, oh, you know, it's affecting my life and my, you know, my quality of my life, but that's very fleeting. but also just how persistent it is. It invades every day of our lives and it wears you down after a while because it's not like you get a cold and you recover after a couple of weeks. This is years and years of him going through chemotherapy and how that impacts you as a person.

1:13:49Certainly there's been moments where he said, I don't feel like I'm the man you married and therefore I'm letting you down because this isn't what you bought into. and his confidence levels have impacted his speech has changed so there's physical you know the physicality of him has changed and that's just so frustrating for me on his behalf I'm like I'm not it's not fair like you don't deserve to go through all that yeah but what what is what is this moment in your life taught you about you probably that I can pretty much get through anything now I think because some days I get home from the hospital I think flipping it like this is quite full-on and I'm still turning up every day to work I'm still running a business you know I've got three brands that I run at the minute so I'm still working and showing up for him as best I can but I've got a great support network around me so it's really made me understand the power of community in my own little network as well as the greater community of social media yes but they do say don't they be careful what you share because once you open it you can't take it back and certainly with john like now that people know about him they they are waiting for an update and if they don't hear one they're like what's going on because they're invested in this story of this man that's really poorly and it's up to me now to keep delivering the updates and that's quite a pressure i was gonna say you must feel that pressure even looking at the posts about john you see the engagement levels are sky high yeah they love him yeah and i'm like i get it he's great but i feel a huge pressure to keep people informed and also not to be disrespectful to other people that are going through cancer or scare people no scaremongering and it can be quite triggering and i like positivity it's a safe space my my socials yes so i have to protect the people that are following as well as I have to protect John.

1:15:49Absolutely, absolutely. And what about marriage? What does it tell you about marriage? Because he feels pressure. Yeah, he does. You must feel pressure. So now there's this significant pressure that's being placed on the relationship. Oh, massive pressure. I mean, our relationship isn't the same as what it was, but we've had an evolution of our relationship anyway. It's never really stayed the same, but we've kind of grown with each other so it's been alright because we've kept on the same level even if we've changed slightly we've changed in the same ways yes but yeah it's um I think our marriage it's taught me a lot about the power of being patient because he's so patient to me and always has been and I've always been the flighty I can get a bit frustrated as soon as I vent I forget about it I'm on to the next thing whereas he's just very calm and I think he enjoys me venting but recently he's starting to vent because he's like I can't do this this is annoying and I'm having to be patient and be like listen it's all right when you got to do this together it's fine yes so it's taught me a lot about yeah the other side of the coin being more like John because that's what he needs right now yes the roles have reversed they've really reversed yeah yeah I am uh I you know it's interesting so So I'd like your opinion on this.

1:17:18So there is a full study. This is around terminal illness. And the study shows that in marriages, when the woman has a terminal illness, that men leave at very high rates. However, if you look at, and these are heteronormative relationships, when it's the man who has the terminal illness, the woman almost always stays, supports and nurtures her husband. Why do you believe that is? Why do you believe there's that disparity? I feel like from my own personal perspective, that wouldn't happen. If I got super poorly, John would be like there sorting it all out. But John's very emotional and very, has a lot of feminine traits in a way.

1:18:13So maybe it is just a kind of masculine need to provide as opposed to nurture. And it's almost like, well, I can't, this person isn't going to, you know, do, fulfill me in that need to provide. Yes. And therefore I need to go see, find somewhere else that can. whereas as a woman we don't really need that that's not what gets our rocks off is it I feel like as women we take a lot of solace from being loved and you know feeling connection yes and actually when your husband's poorly you feel a great deal of connection because they truly rely on you then and John's never told me so much how much he loves me as what he has in the last month every time I see him he reminds me of it so he's giving me a lot of validation within our relationship right now and that's how i would explain it we often devalue how inspirational our partners can and should be yeah in our lives yeah like you've got to marry someone better than you otherwise what's the point you know can i say i completely agree i i feel like you have to feel like you won yeah like you won the lottery with your partner like oh my gosh how in the world did Yeah, like, why does he want me?

1:19:29Yes. You know, thank God he's not twigged yet, but I'm, like, imposter syndrome massively. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. And I think that if you're on the other side of that, you're in the wrong relationship. Absolutely. Yeah. The marriage started, you were still cabin crew. John is working. He was in pensions for HSBC. Oh, wow. Okay, pensions. Yeah. All right. So he's in finance, right? Yeah. you then essentially get on the path to what has now become a major business, a major brand. Yeah. Right. I'm curious about how you and John work together on that because there's a similarity in my career, in my wife, in us working together in the early stages.

1:20:18And I was reliant on her. Yeah. I was reliant on her skill set. I was reliant on her financially early on. So what was the dynamic between you and John early in your current career? I mean, it was as practical as he took my photographs that I would post on Instagram every day. And I would do all the back end, the replying to messages, the DMs and whatnot. But he was taking my photos. He was the guy that was saying, listen, we can't really afford it, but let's put it on a credit card because you need that bag to be relevant if you're going to be this fashion-y girl. so we kind of over we got into debt uh you're not going to pretend we didn't and i think we got into about 50 grand's worth of debt spending on things like trips places we would pay to go so we could create content interesting to kind of build because i was so adamant that this was going to be a career for me i was convinced of it i just needed the opportunity and he helped me pay for that but when you are 50 grand yeah in debt what do you see that makes you believe you should keep going down that path because every month that I kind of grew my community and slowly these money moments came in you know you know partnerships and whatnot the partnership the brand partnerships would get better there was never a month where it went backwards and so it was a bit of you know he He likes certainty, John does.

1:21:43He likes, he's the guy that's a bit more sensible than me. But he couldn't argue with the stats, which were that every month we're earning more money. So the trajectory is, why is this going to stop anytime soon? Okay. And as much as we were in debt, we could afford to pay off our credit cards each month. So I was like, as long as we can afford to pay off our credit cards, let's just keep going. Interesting. And what you were doing at that point was, I would imagine you're creating content. Yeah. You're posting that content online. and different companies are reaching out to do collaborations, partnerships with you.

1:22:16Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then it really, I think lockdown kind of helped me massively because I had a nice community online before lockdown. I think I probably had about half a million followers. So a lot of people were, you know, in my circle. But I'd never spoken on camera or maybe I had once or twice, not really showing my face. People didn't know I was from Manchester. or much about my background, because I quite liked it like that, because there's a vulnerability in sharing those things. But in lockdown, we couldn't leave our houses, and I was doing street-style photography. You know, that's what my content was.

1:22:55It was me stood in the street in an outfit. So I was like, what are we going to do here? And it was John that said, well, listen, every morning you get up and do your makeup and you sit chatting to me, why don't you just film it? Oh, that was his idea? Yeah. He was like, instead of chatting to me, why don't you chat to them? And I was like, yeah, I suppose I could. And I just tried it out, and it kind of took off. And actually my business to this day is built on storytelling, on stories. So a lot of people on Instagram, it's all about the main grid, right? Yes. And that's where all the brand partners come from.

1:23:23But I mean, you've got to pay me a lot of money to put something on the main grid because I'll avoid it like the plague. Yes. Because for me, that's my shop window. Can I, so this is another thing that's blowing my mind. So it was John's idea for you to sit, do your makeup and tell the story. which by the way is I would say one of the most popular forms of content today in 2025. But it wasn't then. Yeah, so you hadn't, because I'm thinking, did you originate this? I don't think I did, but I saw an influx of content creators in the UK that emulated what I did very quickly after I did it because they saw the success I was having.

1:24:01And I get it because it was so raw. There was no preparation other than ordering a load of stuff online to use. so I would do you know hauls I'd just ordered bits of makeup skincare stuff I'd never tried before sure and I think there's a naivety in those let's unbox this together let's try it together I'd use it wrong and we'd giggle about it I'd come on with no makeup and I didn't look that great and I think there's a really nice thing to see somebody just not being so conscious of how they look yes and not feeling so doled up and I don't have a telephone voice when I come online I talk I think I thought like I talked to my mates and it was like a FaceTime with my mate it was just I never really think who's watching okay if I did that I'd be conscious of everything I said and I'd be over filming and re-recording so everything's one take there's no over edits like it's just that's it that's what that's what I said but what about body image because it's something that you've struggled with throughout your life so how conscious were you of how you were showing up with your body online i kind of was but also because i was doing a lot of makeup stuff that's just your face isn't it so i wasn't really focused on my body as much um right at the beginning of me doing those tutorials there was a lot of like face apps and stuff and i remember using an app called snow okay and you could slightly i remember like i slightly made my jaw a bit more narrow and i quite liked how it looked but then when i started getting offers for money for skincare and makeup they'd had in the in the briefs it would be like you can't use any editing filters and I think the government even made a decision on it as well so I had to be like right I've got to scrap this and I said to John like what am I going to do and he was like well you don't look that much different and so I just one day went on without the app and no one commented and I was like no one's noticed so it's only me that cared so then I thought yeah sod it like you know if they don't care I don't care and actually the the more swipe ups were on the ones where I looked a bit rough if I looked too perfect it wasn't as engaging okay and so I you know and we spoke about it before I like money so I could see this was a financial like a decision for me absolutely to be at what point did you feel like you were profitable um probably before probably before lockdown before the beauty.

1:26:26Okay. I think as soon as I started to create those fashion collections, they were really lucrative. And I realised that, oh, this has got, John was like, this is crazy money. Like, you're earning in a month what I earn in a year. It was like, this is daft. Yeah. But then certainly beauty, there's so much more variety, right? And there's a lot of money in beauty as well. Oh, my gosh. And a lot of advertising. So it opened up lots of lovely doors. Yeah. So around that time then the collections you were creating, so you were partnering with? Yeah, partnered with a fashion brand. With a fashion brand, okay.

1:27:04And we would create, initially it was like one collection every three months. But they would, I think the first collection sold out in the first day. And then so the next one we did again and then they were really like fun to do as well. I loved it. And they gave me so much. They indulged my like creativity. so they were like you can be as involved as you want or as non-involved wow and i built this little team that i worked with there and it was brilliant yeah it must have been a dream yeah it was a dream experience and i'm so grateful to the people you know that were behind that and let me do that and i always knew i'm gonna do this on my own at some point but that was like risk-free really because i wasn't putting any money into it and it was just brilliant experience in terms of understanding my customer base what they wanted the back end was key yes because i could see what what did well because i answered my dm so i was getting the feedback so i really used that as like market research it was the best market research ever oh my gosh and you were making money i'm making can you disclose what a good month was for you i mean i think at the high i I think one month I got paid just from that brand, like 80 grand, which is a lot of money, isn't it?

1:28:18That is a lot of money, Lorna. It's a lot. That wasn't the standard. That was a one-off. A one-off, but still. So you continually built, built, built, built, built. Yeah. Currently, it's three brands that you're managing. So it's L.A. Space. L.A. Space. Ghost. Ghost by Lady A. And then 98 Beauty, which hasn't yet launched. And we've called it 98. We've called it beauty because that was the only like dot com available. But fundamentally, 98 is going to be an umbrella of products I love. OK. That aren't clothes. Oh, interesting. Interesting. All right. So busy, busy, busy. Yeah, very busy. When you think about your community, which has truly, I think, been the linchpin around your success, it's been your community what do you believe is most misunderstood or even least known about you what I do I come on every day right and chat so I feel like if there was a fakeness in anything I was doing they would have seen that by now because I don't think it would have I couldn't have kept up the facade right so the fundamentals of who I am people do definitely know but the general day-to-day of my life because they only get that small snippet they probably don't see a lot of the the worries that I have and just generally things that worry that panic me because they're not things I talk about whether it be obviously John they know but certainly work stuff when you think about your career what do you believe is the biggest misconception about it that me and John started

1:30:02with loads of cash because we didn't really. We just got into loads of debt. We pretended. We basically, I'm definitely that girl that fake it till you make it. And I think most people think, you know, John's a rich guy and that's why they've got all that nice stuff. But fundamentally, John and I together are successful and that's why we've got all that nice stuff. it's not more all right i'm the face i'm the front facing person but he's my business partner and co-founder of all my brands and equal decision making and very involved in every element it seems like you had to sell a lifestyle in order to then live the lifestyle yeah i did and that is exactly what i did yeah i reversed engineered my own living if you like yes i just recently started following you and I noticed that so many of the people that I admire and respect that I'm also following okay are following you and engaging your content that's almost a litmus test on how I can tell how how well I'm going to like someone really is based on those that I respect whether or not not only do they follow you but I see that they engage in your content so they look up to you and and to me i always look at that as an endorsement of how you know how how similar alert how similar the values i'll have with someone gotcha yeah based on because i think that in essence that's what we do is that we end up becoming close and highly admire and highly respect people who share our values because our values are like our rule book to life yeah And you do have to edit whose content you consume because if you find yourself in a hole of following people that are quite negative or maybe have strange values, you start to make it okay.

1:31:54You start to make it passable and plausible. Yes. And before you know it, you've ended up with completely different morals and views. Yes. Yes, absolutely. And that's why how we were grounded, how we were taught early on, that's why that's so important. Are you proud of yourself? Yeah, I am proud. But there's always more you can do, right? I think that once I need John to get through this blip, I feel a great weight on me with this. I can't drop the ball on this one. So I need to really do him proud now. All right, so can I hit you with the last question that everybody gets? Corporate. All right.

1:32:34It's my favorite question. And that is you've had some incredible experiences and conversations in your life. Yeah. When you think about the most memorable, who was it with and what did you learn? Probably the most memorable conversation was that that conversation after the priory with John. Because I was willing at that point to walk away from a marriage that provided me with everything. because I felt so passionate that this wasn't what was right for me. And that takes a lot of guts, I think, to kind of be willing to risk everything. At that point, when I was at my lowest, I was still fighting for myself.

1:33:17I was still advocating for myself and going, no, that is not right for me. And you do have to be an advocate for yourself sometimes, even when you're at your lowest. You can't always rely on other people. and that gut of going no this is not right for me and i'm really sorry but this is not going to happen and it is a hard conversation to have because everyone is around john saying no she needs this like she's not well she's a bit delulu she really needs to be institutionalized and the ability for me to have that one chat with him and him go right i'm going to do what you want to do because i love you enough that my marriage is more important than anything else and it kind of set the foundations for our entire trajectory of our relationship and probably the reason why it's lasted um so yeah that was a big deal i think that moment yeah that that one hit me um because i think there are many people who would have not made the decision that he made no i think most people wouldn't yeah that's john yeah there he goes you know he he he the commonality is you both walk to the unbeaten path.

1:34:26Yeah, we do. You're right. And what's beautiful is you do it together. We do. Yeah. And you found your person. I think that is something that I am so happy for you about and why I wish John all the best in the world. It's been wonderful. It's been like the best therapy. I feel like a weight lifted. Yeah. You know, for me, it has been insightful. Good. In what way? You know, I see you differently than who I saw on Instagram. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's, I think, you know, what's so hard about social media is it's so one-dimensional. So one-dimensional. You know, and you don't get the richness of the individual, the humbleness, you know, the insightfulness.

1:35:20I see like you know I see you as someone who is you're stoic I am a little bit but at the same time you're frail yeah at the minute I'm very frail in the sense of everything going on around yeah but you know you see how you live between those two places this is life I think in life we're constantly navigating between you know certainty and uncertainty strength and weakness but on social we only show up as strong, we're certain. Yeah, it's so true. But in actuality, you know, we're living between both. Yeah, we really are. Yeah, and that's what I saw today. Yeah, thank you for that. Yeah, thank you.

1:36:04Thank you. When John is super, super better, you and John have an invite to Sutton Unite. To the potter. Yes. Well, he'll love that. Oh, my gosh. I will be like, where's the wine? Where's the bar? No, no, we don't have wine. we have pints yeah i know i knew you're gonna say that i'll bring my own i'll bring my own bottle of rosé yeah of course of course you will that was wild what did you think oh my gosh i love her from one lens you can say she's on top of the world she's managing three brands she's lives in this incredible house right but yet there's so much pain and struggle and turmoil that's happening in her life.

1:36:49She is human. She, even to this day, doesn't classify herself as anything. And to me, more and more, this is a lesson that I'm taking, is I think that we, in society, we've gotten ourselves into trouble by trying to fit everyone into a nice little box. And that is incredibly dangerous, I believe. And Lorna, like many of our guests, are proving that You can live outside of the box. It's much healthier to do so. Lorna is going through a very difficult time with John being in the hospital currently, you know, as we record. And you can see that she's trying to hold it together. She's in essence, she's trying to be what John has been throughout her life.

1:37:38She's trying to be the rock for him. She's being forced to evolve into another version of herself. And what I'm finding more and more with the conversations that I'm having with the guests is that that's what life does. It forces you to have to evolve to a better version of yourself. And right when you get to that version, you think you're at your best self, life throws something else at you quickly. And then you're forced to evolve again. And it's interesting because Lorna is child free. But there's a massive lesson for those who have children from this conversation, and that is that your decisions, whether or not you realize it, carry consequence for your children.

1:38:28Jill is super nerd. I mean, Jill has the DSM-5, right, the Diagnostic Statistical Manual on Mental Disorders, and she just reads it for fun. That's my wife. And eating disorders are right in there. And looking at how prevalent they are among people who have suffered trauma early in their life, you can't discount that our adolescents are incredibly important. Secondly is if you don't yet have a child and you're considering whether or not, parenting is not for everyone. It's just not. And we shouldn't let society shame us, especially women, into this idea that you must have a child. And if you don't, you're insufficient or you have lower value.

1:39:23And you can see how Lorna was able to fight through that stigma. And I think that's a lesson that we can all take. Are you ready? That's probably too much. Let me see. How about everyone? Everyone. Everyone. Oh, my God. Sheffield. Sheff. Scott, how do you say this? Is it Sheffield? Sheff. Sheffield. Sheffield. At least this isn't live, right? Well, no, but that's about to change, isn't it? So we are going to do We Need to Talk live for the first time. The magic is in the conversation, so we'll have a very special guest. You know what's probably most cool about this is this will be the first time that the We Need to Talk community will come together in person.

1:40:15You know, I'm curious to see what does everyone look like? What do they smell like? Sheffield. July 5th. at the Crucible Theater. So to get tickets, very simple, it's crossedwires.live. It's very important to buy tickets quickly because they will go fast. We'll make sure that there's a link below.

1:40:52Thank you.