In short
Podcast Summary: We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson
Episode Title
"I Was Afraid My Family Would Never Accept Me"
Overview In this episode, hosted by Paul C. Brunson, the conversation centers around the themes of sexuality, identity, and the courage it takes to live truthfully, particularly in the context of LGBT History Month. Guests Bimini and Josh Cavallo share their personal experiences with coming out, confronting societal shame, and the importance of allyship in the queer community.
---
Key Themes and Discussions
- Navigating Sexual Identity
- Bimini's Journey:
- Discusses her evolution in understanding her sexual identity from a binary perspective to recognizing it as a spectrum.
- Reflects on the societal pressures and stereotypes faced during her teens and early adulthood.
- Josh's Experience:
- Shares how he identified as gay but felt a conflict within himself regarding gender and sexuality.
- Talks about the stigma from the AIDS crisis era and the lack of proper sexual education, which affected his early sexual experiences.
- The Role of the Straight Community
- Allyship:
- Discussion emphasizes the importance of straight individuals stepping up as true allies.
- Key advice: Challenge misinformation and support the queer community actively rather than merely attending events like Pride.
- Coming Out Experiences
- Josh Cavallo's Story:
- Illustrates the fear of not being accepted by family and peers, leading to living a double life.
- Initially reached out to potential partners while hiding his true identity, fearing backlash from family and society.
- The Impact of Family Acceptance:
- Recounts writing a letter to his family coming out, highlighting the internal struggle and fear of rejection.
- Shares the surprising acceptance and support he received from his family, contrasting his initial fears.
- Challenges Faced by Queer Individuals
- Societal Expectations:
- Both guests discuss the pervasive stereotypes within the LGBTQ+ community and how these expectations create barriers.
- Addressing the hypersexualization of queer individuals and the damaging narratives propagated by society and organized religions.
- Isolation and Loneliness:
- Josh shares the loneliness experienced during his teenage years due to fear of rejection, resulting in a lack of trust in others.
- Argues that many LGBTQ+ individuals face similar isolation, impacting their mental health and relationships.
- Activism and Responsibility
- Becoming an Advocate:
- Transition from being a professional athlete to a role model and advocate for LGBTQ+ rights.
- Josh reflects on how receiving messages from individuals seeking help and support made him realize his responsibility to advocate for change.
- The Need for Nuanced Conversations:
- Paul and guests emphasize the importance of having open conversations about sexuality and identity to challenge fear-based narratives in society.
- Urges listeners to look beyond superficial debates and address deeper societal issues affecting LGBTQ+ individuals.
---
Key Takeaways
- Understanding Identity: Sexuality is not a binary construct; it exists on a spectrum that should be embraced.
- Importance of Allyship: Straight allies must actively engage in supporting the queer community, especially in challenging harmful narratives.
- Coming Out is Personal: Each individual's coming out journey is unique, and acceptance from family can significantly impact mental health and well-being.
- Need for Representation: Visibility in sports and other public arenas can inspire and help others feel safe in their identities.
- Activism as a Responsibility: Those who have the privilege of living openly and authentically have a responsibility to advocate for those who may not have the same opportunities.
---
Conclusion This episode highlights the intricacies of navigating one's identity, the vital role of allyship, and the importance of open, honest conversations in promoting understanding and acceptance. Josh and Bimini's candid discussions provide insight into the challenges faced by the LGBTQ+ community while also offering hope and encouragement for those still grappling with their identities.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VONavigating Sexual Identity
0:42 to 1:06
Discussion on the evolution of sexual identity and the journey of self-discovery.
“From coming out to confronting shame, this is an episode about self-discovery and authenticity.”
Reflection on Past Sexual Identity
1:06 to 2:11
Exploration of early sexual identity and societal influences.
“So at 18, sexually, how did you identify?”
Shame and Stigma in Sexual Exploration
2:11 to 4:37
Sharing experiences of shame and stigma related to sexual exploration.
“You know, like I think if I look back and I was like, is that really what I want it to look like?”
Education and Its Impact on Sexual Health
4:37 to 7:30
Critique of sexual education and its effect on understanding diverse sexualities.
“I didn't always enjoy the like kind of sometimes the hookup seedy-ness of the night out thing, like meeting some random, like it was something that I struggled with.”
Hypersexuality and Misconceptions
7:30 to 10:00
Discussion on misconceptions about hypersexuality and societal narratives.
“There was no understanding of other people's gender identities.”
True Allyship and Community Support
10:00 to 11:42
Exploration of how to be a genuine ally to the queer community.
“How does the straight community give true allyship?”
Confronting Societal Issues and Division
11:42 to 13:34
Discussion on the importance of unity in addressing societal issues.
“That is, Booney's running for Prime Minister.”
Living a Double Life
15:15 to 20:48
Exploring the challenges of coming out while hiding one's true self.
“You don't have to, people that aren't out with their sexuality are allowed to access and message people that are, have their dating profile, just like Tinder, just like anything.”
The Letter to My Family
20:50 to 24:33
Discussing the emotional journey of coming out to family via a letter.
“There's a slight chance that this person will tell my parents or tell someone I knew or one of my friends at school.”
Reactions and Reflections
24:34 to 28:03
Reflecting on family reactions and personal growth after coming out.
“was my brother, whether that was my mom, whether that was my dad.”
Show all 12 chapters
Overcoming Isolation Through Football
28:03 to 29:37
Explore how personal struggles with identity fueled a drive for success in sports.
“family or they have ostracized themselves.”
Becoming an Advocate: A Responsibility Accepted
29:37 to 30:54
Learn about the transition from personal success to recognizing a duty to help others.
“But then very quickly, you then become really an activist.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:005 a.m.
0:01Paul C. Brunson:I'm up with a crisp Celsius energy drink. Running 12 miles today. Grab a green juice, quick change, and head to work. Meetings, workshops. One more Celsius, no slowing down. Working late, but obviously still meeting the girls for a little dancing. Celsius. Live. Fit. Go. Grab a cold, refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate now at Celsius.com. Welcome to We're Talking. In honor of LGBT History Month, we're opening up a conversation about sexuality, identity, and the courage it takes to live as your true self. Joining us are two voices who have navigated that journey in the public eye, Bimini and Josh Cavallo.
0:43Paul C. Brunson:From coming out to confronting shame, this is an episode about self-discovery and authenticity. Today we're talking LGBT History Month.
1:05Paul C. Brunson:Beginning of the conversation, you mentioned that you were evolving your definition of sexual identity. So at 18, sexually, how did you identify?
1:16Josh Cavallo:I knew inherently that I was like more than just gay. Okay. But I was gay. Like I was very obviously gay. But like, I mean, definitely was feeding into like the fashion and everything in a way of the zeitgeist. And like there was a TV show. I don't know if you've ever watched it called The Only Way is Essex. I'm not sure if it's your cup of tea.
1:40Paul C. Brunson:I have seen a few episodes.
1:42Josh Cavallo:Yeah, so there was a lot of, there was a colour of their skin that was like quite prominent, which was orange. And that was also my colour of the skin. And I had red hair and it was just weird. Like if I look back, it was weird. You looked like Donald Trump. I looked like something. I wouldn't go that far though. Not the Trump. But I was, yeah, it was, but like I was gay. I was gay, but I was also like, I don't know, not really fully knowing what I was.
2:11Paul C. Brunson:Okay.
2:11Josh Cavallo:You know, like I think if I look back and I was like, is that really what I want it to look like? I don't know. Like it was something. But I bet it was good.
2:19Paul C. Brunson:In terms of this whole, you know, sexual identity. Yes. One thing that I have now begun, and I say begun, I now understand, but I definitely didn't when I was over there. You know, when I was, that's me at 18, basically. You know. Fab. Is that I viewed the world binary. it was and and you know and i didn't view the world especially sexuality as a spectrum yes whereas i look at sexuality today as a spectrum how did you view it at that time i
2:55Josh Cavallo:i remember like my mom i would say to my mom like i'm not just a boy i'm not just a girl like i'm not i don't know i think she maybe thought at the time it was me just trying to be a bit like provocative or a bit like like be a bit different or whatever but I remember thinking like no I feel different I think like I don't feel like I'm necessarily one or the other I feel like I'm just I'm me and I don't fit into the binary I don't fit into the binary but I didn't really know what the binary was at that point so this is like 14 years ago I would have kind of not had any idea what was what i was doing but i was having sex with men um i had had sex with females as well at that point i had explored my sexuality i wasn't always like confident in it i think like i definitely um would lubricate with alcohol i mean still to this day there's shame with with uh queer sex or gay sex you know i grew up like after post kind of the aids like crisis that happened and i would hear stuff about that if you have sex you're going to get this and like we didn't have the education like no one taught us in school that what had happened for aids and how it had changed and all of the pioneering medicine and the ways of treatment and things that we have available now because even though it affects everyone it was predominantly seen as something
4:21Paul C. Brunson:that was for gay men you know okay yes yeah so that was something i came up after that and i can't
4:27Josh Cavallo:even imagine like going through that like being sexual during that period like it must have been so difficult and horrendous to not feel so much shame because of the stigma that society has done but like we came from post that and like there was like an air of acceptance like oh it's okay to be gay blah blah even though the language that was used in kind of schools and college was like oh that's so gay like gay was used as a derogatory you know yes so i would i would say it i'm not like i would say it not just because it was it was the language that's interesting like not even not even putting two and two together you know that that is a negative about my identity my sexuality or like my exploration of that um but yeah i remember like my first sexual experience being horrendous and it was like with a guy that was quite a lot older than me to be honest like for my age um and yeah it didn't end well for your first time and that was like i mean that put me off to begin with to be honest you know it puts you off of what sex i was afraid of it for a while i think i didn't know i didn't know what it was meant to look like like i didn't know like um Obviously, you had seen porn and stuff at that point, but like porn is a certain image of like what sex is.
5:44Josh Cavallo:I didn't always enjoy the like kind of sometimes the hookup seedy-ness of the night out thing, like meeting some random, like it was something that I struggled with. So I was a bit more of a party boy at the time. And sex wasn't necessarily like a focus for me. Just going out and get wasted was really.
6:02Paul C. Brunson:Was focused, this is a great myth for us to demystify, and that is, you are not the exception. You are the rule. Most people have low satisfaction sex in their first experience. Yeah. And as a result, then are turned off on it. And it makes sense. Yeah. You experienced something for the first time, you didn't have a good time, you don't want to do it again. Yeah, exactly. But I think that the script that we're fed is, you know, you should want it again. Yeah. That's your fault. That's your issue. You're the problem. Yeah. And I think it's important for us to say, no, this is what happens more often than not.
6:39Paul C. Brunson:So you are the rule then. You're not the exception.
6:45Josh Cavallo:I am short. Obviously, before I put these shoes on, you know, like a lot shorter. And I was kind of slimmer. and so therefore within gay stereotypes which I was learning about and and hearing about people automatically assumed that I would take a certain position you know and I didn't know necessarily I hadn't learned about what how how that works what that is like seen it but like I kind of was automatically like put into a box or like put into it like an idea of what I had to be and like I had to go for this type of guy and like I don't know it was always a bit weird for me it It felt too rigid and like not right.
7:25Josh Cavallo:All we ever learned about was like putting a condom on a banana and male to female sex. You know, there was no nuance. There was no understanding of other people's gender identities. So much nuance is missed in education because so therefore I think that's harmful when it comes to being going into having sex. Because learning just about one type of sex is harmful for everyone else that doesn't experience that, you know. And I think it feeds into the narrative that everything else is wrong and this is how it should be. And I think that's linked with so much trauma that queer people have with sex.
8:03Josh Cavallo:And it's not just gay sex, it's sex for trans people. But the male gaze has impacted how the entire world views sexuality. You grow up with Disney and everything with a male and a female prince and a princess. and it's so stereotypical when it comes to gender.
8:23Paul C. Brunson:Yes.
8:23Josh Cavallo:And again, there's no nuance. Like, the damsel in distress is saved by the strong prince. By the strong prince, right.
8:29Paul C. Brunson:And that's the example of masculinity.
8:31Josh Cavallo:And femininity. And femininity is seen as the weaker. And, like, that's an issue that affects, I think, every single person on the planet.
8:39Paul C. Brunson:For many years, I felt victim to the script, you know, to this narrative. I remember in New York in particular, and a lot of it, and this will definitely get us into dangerous territory, but I will put this out, is I think that, you know, this is where organized religion plays a strong role.
8:57Josh Cavallo:Yeah, totally.
8:58Paul C. Brunson:Right. And I distinctly remember the script that was handed to me was that if you are gay or if you are part of the queer community, you are hypersexual. And not only are you hypersexual, but you are a sexual predator.
9:12Josh Cavallo:Yeah. it's crazy to me that that's allowed like those and it's still to this day it's been perpetuated now with trans people like there's no truth to back up the evidence that a trans person is going to be is going to take away women's rights and is also a harm to other people it's actually demonizing an already marginalized group that just want equal rights and i think we need to actually get to a resolution where there's a middle ground because people are being harmed Like there's trans people that we're losing, their lives are getting taken, their identities are being taken away, access to health care.
9:49Josh Cavallo:They are being stripped away of basic dignity as human beings and not listened to. But it's also, it teeters on to like queer phobia, femme phobia. It's all kind of linked under misogyny in a way.
10:02Paul C. Brunson:So how does the, you know, how does the straight community give true allyship to the queer community without, because, you know, true, without placating, you know, without just attending pride and, you know, and that's it. How does the straight community give true allyship?
10:22Josh Cavallo:I think it's just about if you hear something that you know isn't right, information, challenge it. Like it might be uncomfortable, but it's only going to get worse. You know, like the way that language and the rhetoric has changed over the years has been very dark and it's insidious. We just need to be more open to each other and actually know that the common enemy is the patriarchal standards that are creating all of this, you know? And, like, it's not like a, oh, fuck the patriarchy thing, in a way, it kind of is. But, like, we can all coexist if we were to all just understand that that person has a different life experience to me.
11:05Josh Cavallo:But that's okay. Yes. It's okay to be different. It's also okay to not have an opinion on everything. as well and that's me just sat here after having an opinion but like it's okay to not have to say something on social media or like social media is a big thing that needs to be to be not policed but like there needs to be something done because I feel like the algorithms are just building more hate because we are kept into echo chambers we don't see anything outside of our own thoughts and other people's thoughts we're not challenged with things the media want the polarization from both sides because then it keeps you looking at the real problems like the state of the economy the fact that people can't put food on their table the fact that we have a homeless crisis the fact that the world is in such a kind of really difficult time we've got climate change happening there's discussions about whether we can move to mars but instead of sorting those problems out it's who's pissing in the bathroom is the main issue and like we need to be like why are you so obsessed with what's going on in the toilet?
12:09Josh Cavallo:Let people piss in peace.
12:11Paul C. Brunson:That is, Booney's running for Prime Minister. Piss in peace.
12:15Josh Cavallo:Piss in peace. I mean, they've been speaking about it for years.
12:19Paul C. Brunson:But these are facts. You know, there's signal and there's noise. And we oftentimes, we're distracted by the noise and then we lose track of the signal.
12:30Josh Cavallo:And I think that's what they want, though, whoever they are. but you know what i mean like i believe that people want the best for most people inherently yes but i think the media uh plays against the idea of um your community or your tribe because it then it groups people so much so then you are afraid of that person and you won't give milk to that person the next door neighbor even though most religion is meant to say love their neighbor you know and i think that's something that we're all missing is just loving
13:03Paul C. Brunson:each other okay i mean i completely agree i i it is divide and conquer uh and i think this is why these conversations are so important is because we're bringing nuance um to the world you know the world typically moves off of fear this is this is what we do yeah and as if we feel threatened or we feel our family's threatened or we feel our value system is threatened, then the objective is to eliminate the threat, opposed to then re-evaluate the values in the first place.
13:34Josh Cavallo:Totally.
13:38Paul C. Brunson:Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with Epiglis, a once-monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four-month or longer dosing phase, about four in 10 people taking Epiglis achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.
14:20Paul C. Brunson:can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EBCLIS. Before starting EBCLIS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Ask your doctor about EBCLIS and visit EBCLIS.Lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right, so I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin, way better than points. Never fly during a Scorpio full moon. Just tell the manager you'll sue. Instant room upgrade. Stop taking bad travel advice.
Read the full transcript
14:57Paul C. Brunson:Start comparing hundreds of sites with Kayak and get your trip right. Bad advice? You talking to me? Kayak. Got that right.
15:15Paul C. Brunson:so in your journey did you in your coming out journey did you talk to your parents and family
15:23Bimini:first or no absolutely not and this is the whole point of living the double lie and it leads on to how I met my fiance is that I was on the app and I was not displaying my face. You can, don't have to have a photo. You can be discreet. You don't have to, people that aren't out with their sexuality are allowed to access and message people that are, have their dating profile, just like Tinder, just like anything. And I reached out to my current fiance and the whole point of me not living the life and hiding behind a mask is that he thought I was fake. So he blocked me. And that for me was like, I can't even pursue what I want.
16:08And it's just something that I can't continue living a life that I have to hide away and
16:13Bimini:be ashamed of. Why? Because you like holding a guy's hand because you have attraction to a male. It's laughable. But that is the scenario of so many millions of people around the world right now. And I'm so lucky to be in a position where I can be out and loud and proud in the UK and be who I want, unapologetic myself. But there's people around this world that can't afford to do that stuff.
16:39Paul C. Brunson:So how old were you when you reached out to him?
16:43Bimini:I was, that's a good question. I think I was about 19. It was kind of an ego hit in the face where I explained who I was, gave him my Instagram and said, this is me. I'm not out. this is my situation. Um, please respect my thing, but I find you really attractive. And then it got followed up with gone. So he was removed from me, but then, which is such a bittersweet moment when my announcement was, um, happened and took place. And I got a message from this person. Who's my fiance saying that he saw me on TV and he apologizes for thinking I was fake.
17:22Paul C. Brunson:Yes.
17:22Bimini:And that he can't believe that he judged a book by
17:26Paul C. Brunson:it's cover and like it's just crazy right but but but so i'm putting myself in his shoes i would have thought you were fake too right you know because one is you didn't have the photo right but also because you he was probably familiar maybe with you the athlete not as the individual and also i think that's a lot of trust that you placed in him strangers in a stranger yeah and So help me understand that, right, is you don't tell your parents, your brother, even your best friend, but you tell a stranger.
18:08Bimini:Nuts, right.
18:09Paul C. Brunson:Why?
18:10Bimini:I think because it was, I had a thing when I first was doing this and my strategy was, how can I not get caught, right? and it was the fact that I would message people out in different towns, not in my town. So if my fiance lived in Perth, that was very far away from Melbourne. So it wouldn't track back to anyone that would know of someone and know of this. And you kind of become like a spy and you investigate and it's really, really, really pathetic if you think about it. But this is what every, as I'm speaking right now, there would be someone doing this as well. and it's the sad reality of it because sometimes I wish I could tell that little Josh here it's not that deep mate you can go and be whoever you want and go and tell your parents and go and tell your brother they're going to be there to give you the biggest hug yes and it's all going
19:03Paul C. Brunson:to be okay but you were thinking though that what if if if someone found out that it would what jeopardize your football jeopardize the relationship with your parents and your brother you thought
19:16Bimini:Absolutely. You think everything's at risk. You know, I researched so much about gay professional footballers, nothing came up. Am I going to be the next Justin? Am I going to take my life because of what someone on the other side of the world sitting on their couch thinks of me? um so that's the messaging that i have grown in these last four years and they've had this shell and like the things that do come my way is obscene and so disgusting people saying i'll things under
19:48Paul C. Brunson:the sun to get rid of my existence on this earth but you were already you you were already believing that could happen to you right because i can imagine you're i mean you're still you're playing You're hearing what fans are saying. You are hearing probably what teammates are saying and alluding to. And you just don't want any of that coming your way. Right? So you're trying to keep yourself safe. And so I can, it's interesting because for me, I can see other incidents of life where if you don't feel safe with the people around you, you need someone to talk to. You need someone to share that with.
20:32Paul C. Brunson:So at what point, though, do you tell your family?
20:39Bimini:That's crazy because I didn't even trust a therapist. That's someone that I was like, I was at school and I was like, I might go and talk to her. I can't do that. I can't tell anyone. No one needs to know. There's a slight chance that this person will tell my parents or tell someone I knew or one of my friends at school. I feel like I was stuck. In a world that wasn't built for me and didn't accept Josh where football and being LGBTQ plus is okay. And to see that in how it's evolved in the space of I'm still not welcomed in this community of football, but to see the impact I've had and people coming out and having representation in all different sports and seeing how I can really change someone's life, even if they're a primary school kid is quite life changing.
21:29Paul C. Brunson:Yes. Yes. so wow you didn't feel safe enough to tell a therapist no it's crazy right yeah it's interesting because you're a therapist you're supposed to have a private relationship with your therapist so if you couldn't tell your therapist you you told you know people you didn't know but who was
21:49Bimini:the first in your family that you told i after i received that award i had off season and i was 20 and I had the best young player award. I remember going to my hometown in Melbourne and we had six weeks break. And I said, right, in this six weeks, I'm going to be who I want to be. I'm going to plan out what I'm going to do. And it got to the last day of the holiday that I was having at home. And I wrote a letter. And I wrote it to my mom, dad, and my brother, and I was going to put it underneath the couch and then drive to Adelaide, which is an eight-hour drive. So I would tell them to open up the letter and read it when I'm long gone because I thought they would just not accept me for who I was and just that's it, I'm finished in this family.
22:42Bimini:So I feel like that was the only safe space I could do it without being in trouble or frowned upon or told off. it was a really scary time for me because that was literally the first time in all these years
22:58Paul C. Brunson:this mask was dropped yes and also I can't I mean my heart really just sunk because you slid that letter thinking that you would not be accepted so you probably thought that was the last time that
23:08Bimini:you'd see them you see yeah it's actually it baffles me because that was my thinking and And it's difficult because to see their reaction and to see what's happened now and how much they've evolved is been absolutely incredible. But these are the things you do when you're at this point. You're so in your head. You're so locked and stuck. You don't want to open up to anyone about it. It was tough for me because I just thought on a career aspect, I'm finished. That's it. I'm going to go and do other work and work in a different space because that's me hanging up my boots and I'm not allowed to be who I am.
23:49Paul C. Brunson:Who you are. Yes. So then did you ultimately, you wrote the letter? Yeah. Slid it under the couch. Yeah.
23:55Bimini:I wrote it about four times. And I remember making a video and recording myself and talking to the camera and saying, this is it. This is Josh letting go. this is Josh finally putting his armor down and showing the real person who he is and it's actually really sad because I didn't have the balls to do it in person to my mom and dad and that would have been such a lovely reaction to see and the joy and that's something that I missed out and I'll never get back is seeing their reaction with it and seeing how much of a not of an issue it was I think after the coming out with my family, they were so upset and angry that I had lived this life till 21 and not felt comfortable to speak to anyone in my family about it, whether that was my brother, whether that was my mom, whether that was my dad.
24:51Paul C. Brunson:how did you all reconcile that because i can imagine they because what it sounds like is is they they read that letter and they immediately accepted the fullness of you absolutely i think it took me by surprise because there wasn't much of a reaction i thought literally yes my parents
25:13Bimini:have raised me to 21 here and this is my time to say goodbye and it's nuts to think that that's
25:20Paul C. Brunson:the way I programmed myself to think but did they ever did your family ever give you a reason to believe that you would not be accepted I think it's the masculinity thing um there was times
25:35Bimini:where I was younger and would be in the car and would drive past two guys holding hands and my dad would say something obnoxious out the window not to them personally but loud enough that we can hear in the car and it wasn't anything offensive it was just something to joke about and oh look at these guys and it wasn't just my father there was other people as well in my family that would trigger me and that would only push me so far deep back into who I was and not comfortable to be safe around them. And I feel like growing up, that's why I had such a detachment from my father. And that's why my grandfather for me was that person.
26:19Paul C. Brunson:Yes, yes. So there was a fear that your father would not accept you at all.
26:26Bimini:Absolutely, yeah. I remember I would go straight to my room when I got home. I wouldn't socialize with my parents. I wouldn't hang out with them. I'd lock myself in my room And I did that for years. And my parents all thought it was part of growing up, being a teenager. You know, don't want to hang around with your parents. And I would isolate myself a lot. So you end up becoming your only friend. And that's something that I really struggled with. And they understood why I did that when I came out. And right now to see that they're my biggest cheerleaders and supporters is absolutely insane.
27:00Paul C. Brunson:Yeah.
27:00Bimini:Yeah.
27:01Paul C. Brunson:But it sounds like then growing up, you know, you were quite lonely.
27:06Bimini:I was very lonely. Yeah, I didn't trust anyone. I didn't trust friends. The thing was, I had really close friends. I was lying to them the whole time. So how can I call someone a close friend and be nice to them when I'm lying straight to their face? It is really hard to explain to the public what it's like in the shoes of someone that doesn't feel like they have a place in society. That was what I was struggling with all my teenagehood. And I almost feel like my growing up. I had to grow up very quickly and then forget to enjoy those years, which is the most funnest thing of growing up through high school and enjoying yourself.
27:48Bimini:So I do feel like that got taken away from me and caused me to be a lot more mature of how I am today as a person.
27:55Paul C. Brunson:Yeah. You know, with so many people who have, whether they have been ostracized by society or family or they have ostracized themselves. They typically become what's considered avoidant in their attachment. And normally people who are avoidant, you know what? They become very successful in their careers because they begin to learn to the only person they can rely on is themselves, you know? And it's interesting. I didn't know this about you, but now I can begin to see how you probably took all of that energy. You double down on football. double down on becoming extraordinary in football. And you also have the motivation of your grandfather who had passed, knowing that you're doing it for him as well.
28:43Bimini:Absolutely. I feel like that was the only space that I had, could have a break, not talk to anyone, put my head down, and just show my talent and ability and be judged on that. And it wasn't a fact of me. Yes, it was me also being isolated in the change room, not really socializing with anyone, avoiding showers, avoiding spaces where I felt uncomfortable or I'd get looked at in a certain way, or people might think that I'm gay if I'm doing a certain walk or a certain clothes that I wear. So I channeled all that into being the best footballer I can possibly be. And it's basically to say, literally today I can look at it and say that was my big FU to all the haters that think that I am not good enough to be where I am today and in the position of Joshua Cavallo, the footballer.
29:36Paul C. Brunson:Yes. But then very quickly, you then become really an activist. You were forced into becoming an activist, or should I say you accepted that? You accepted the responsibility of it. What was the moment that you went from thinking, I won't have a job to I now have a responsibility. What was that moment? Was it a particular message? Was it the volume of messages? What was it?
30:05Bimini:I think it was the volume of messages and seeing that people need your help. You are their lifeline. I think when I realized that people are using me as their lifeline to like breathe in the next day and to want to live another day and want to live another week, that's when I knew I have a responsibility. Now, I didn't go into this thinking that I would be an advocate in this space and to see the movement that this had across the world of an international level and see the people this reached in countries that I've never heard of before and them reaching out for support is not when I knew I have a responsibility now.
30:53Thank you.
From the publisher
In honour of LGBT History Month, We’re Talking opens an honest and unfiltered conversation about sexuality, identity and the courage it takes to live truthfully. Bimini and Josh Cavallo share their experiences of coming out, confronting shame, and challenging the systems that silence queer voices, reflecting on what real allyship and self-acceptance look like today.
We’re Talking LGBT History Month.
(00:00) Intro
(00:49) Bimini on Navigating Her Sexuality During Her Teens and Early Adulthood
(09:36) How the Straight Community Can Be True Advocates for the Queer Community
(13:21) Josh Talks to Paul About 'Wearing a Mask' and Coming Out to His Family
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
